#FeelTheBern -Out: Rapist Sexist #BernieSanders And Baltimore #O’Malley Tackle #Hillary2016 At Dum #DemDebate

Call the ASPCA! There be a mad dog a-loose. Saint Bernard is barky. There’s a debate tonight that few care about at 8:00 (ET) on ABC. The debate should be on Comedy Central.

Hillary Clinton should bring a small cask of rum and attach it to the collar on Saint Bernard of Vermont. Or maybe the ASPCA needs to be called in to put this mad dog… in a kennel.

Tonight mad dog Bernie Sanders will bring his rape fantasies to ABC. Not having said anything about how the Democratic National Committee fixed the election in 2008 for Barack Obama tonight Bernie Sanders whines about how the race is fixed for Hillary2016.

Why Bernie is upset is a mystery. Bernie should be happy instead of upset. This debate will be in Manchester, New Hampshire. That’s Bernie Sanders territory as he is a neighbor Senator. In 2008 the Hillary Clinton campaign foolishly did not utter a complaint when all the debates were held with Obama friendly audiences in Obama friendly states with Obama biased tingly Big Media “personalities” in charge. So clueless was the Hillary Clinton 2008 campaign that not a word was said when there were no debates in Hillary friendly states such as New York or in front of Hillary friendly audiences such as women, nor focused on Hillary friendly topics.

No. In 2008 there were no debates in New York nor any debates to discuss issues of particular relevance to women, nor in regions of the country wherein Hillary won 40 points over Obama. The clueless Hillary 2008 campaign said not a word at such thumb on the scales help to Obama from the DNC. Hillary2016 did not learn anything from 2008 and does not protest that the debates are not being held in states such as South Carolina where Hillary holds commanding leads. But Bernie? Oh, Bernie is so very upset.

Yeah, Bernie Sanders is upset. His campaign stole campaign information due to the incompetence of the DNC (or it could have been an elaborate trap by the Hillary guy who runs the DNC data operation say the Bernie Barkers) and Bernie has the chutzpah to complain!

Hey Bernie, you’re barky.

What is even more sad, nay, pathetic, is that Bernie Sanders is so incensed about his campaign theft. Yeah, that’s the big issue everyone is talking about before this Dum #DemDebate.

ISIS is on the march. People are getting killed in the United States by these Muslim monsters. But Bernie is only fired up because his campaign is punished for being a bunch of thieves. Chutzpah!

Then there is Baltimore O’Malley. What a joke this penised person is. His legacy in Maryland and Baltimore in particular, is a cauldron of race riots and a mistrial in what was supposed to be the easiest case against the cops who did their job and Baltimore O’Malley does not have the basic decency to shoot himself in the head right after he gets out of this presidential race.

Go to Hell Martin O’Malley!

Hillary Clinton? Take a look at Barack Obama’s job approval numbers Hil and get a clue. That’s the most important number in 2016.

Saint Bernard? Get thee to a kennel Bernie Fife Sanders!


124 thoughts on “#FeelTheBern -Out: Rapist Sexist #BernieSanders And Baltimore #O’Malley Tackle #Hillary2016 At Dum #DemDebate

  1. Good evening all! Do well with the comments, please. I’m on the grill outside and I’ll be flipping between college football and the Cowboys/Jets football game.

    Hillary 2016?

  2. Winner of the night: TheRock

    Good sense to be with burgers and sports. Dummies like us will be watching the debate all alone.

  3. Oh, for Heaven’s sake…here we have talking heads…Step and Fetch it, Billo Head, Cokey, Jonathan Karl, and some bald headed guy bathering on before the debate starts. Now that’s a crew.

  4. Martha Raddatz, David Muir, moderators.

    Opening statements.

    Clinton: Families safe and grow economy. I have a strategy to defeat ISIS, raise incomes. We have a distinct difference with our Republican counterparts. They will repeal ObamaCare, tax breaks to super wealthy and let those on no fly list buy guns.

    O’Malley: Tonight is different because now America has been attacked. First job is to protect people of U.S. I visited a mosque in Virginia. We face a political danger from those who want to take advantage. Hold true to American values. Never surrender to fascist billionaires.

    Sanders: It’s too late for establishment politics and economics. Our economy is rigged. New wealth is going to 1%. I’m for working families. Campaign finance system is corrupt. We need to address planetary crisis of climate change, fight fossil fuels. We need a new foreign policy that destroys ISIS but not perpetual warfare. Wealthy nations should finance Muslims to fight.

  5. “O’Malley only needs a red elf suit…”
    Not having noticed it before, now all I see is his pointed elf ears and can hardly listen to what he is saying. I’m too impressionable…don’t put images in my mind! lol

  6. Muir: Latest events about data theft. Warfare. Stealing from Clinton?

    Sanders: The DNC hired vendors. Two months ago our staffers found information from Clinton. We told DNC. This happened again a few days ago because of vendor error. We fired those that looked at the information wrongly obtained. This is a problem but the DNC shut off access to our information and crippled our campaign. Now it is resolved. We need an investigation. I think Hillary’s campaign got some of our information. We did not go to the media to complain.

    Muir: Apology to Clinton?

    Sanders: Yes. I apologize to Clinton and our supporters.

    Clinton: I appreciate that comment. You have your data back. We need independent inquiry. We were distressed about this breach. Let’s move on.

    O’Malley: We have pressing issues after the attack. Things don’t get done in Washington because for 24 hours we have to listen to the bickering. Security and economic issues are important.

    Sanders: I agree with Hillary and O’Malley. The middle class is disappearing and we need health care for all.

    Muir: Obama said there were no attacks on the radar before the attacks. Confidence in what Obama said?

    Clinton: Most important to keep our families safe. I have a plan to defeat ISIS. Attack ISIS, dismantle their global network, keep Americans safe. We need to have partners. Share intelligence and information especially from internet. Work with tech companies. Work with Muslim American communities. I too met with Muslim Americans. Don’t demonize them like Republicans.

    O’Malley: I am first post 9/11 governor. There has been a lack of investment in intelligence gathering and sharing. Here in Homeland we need to increase battle tempo.

    Muir: Poll has 77% no confidence in government against lone wolf attacks.

    Sanders: I’m one of 77%. I agree with Hillary and O’Malley. But I voted against Iraq War. I do not believe in unilateral American action. King of Jordan is a real hero we need to thank.

    Raddatz: Gun control? Americans against in polls.

    Clinton: I agree with Sanders we need a coalition abroad. Here at home we need a coalition. We lose 33,000 people a year to gun violence. Arming people is not the right response to terrorism. Muslim American community is our strong defense. Donald Trump is sending a clash of civilizations message. Look at guns but how to deal with radicalization.

    Raddatz: Long lines of gun buyers. Will you discourage?

    Sanders: We have 300 million guns. Horrific gun killings. We need to bring sensible gun regulations. Overwhelming amount of Americans back background checks. Eliminate gun show loophole. No assault weapons. Country is divided on guns.

    O’Malley: (interrupts) We need gun control. Sanders voted against gun control. Clinton changes her position all the time. We need principles on this not more polls. We need comprehensive gun legislation.

    Raddats: 7-10 million assault rifles. How to ban? Confiscate?

    O’Malley: In Maryland we overcame the NRA. The flip flopping of my opponents is responsible.

    Sanders: Whoa. We can do all the great speeches but we need consensus. Do not explain to me that I have not shown courage against guns.

    Clinton: I agree with O’Malley for common sense gun control but he misrepresents my record. I have been for the Brady bill and other gun control measures. Now Senator Sanders is moving to my position. Please co-sponsor legislation for common sense gun measures. Republicans will not even admit there is a problem.

  7. Muir: Donald Trump. Muslims. Americans agree with Trump.

    Clinton: People are acting out of fear. Trump has a great capacity to use bluster and bigotry. We need to be united. Muslim Americans should not feel left out or marginalized. After 9/11 George Bush reached out to Muslims. Trump’s discriminatory messages help ISIS. This is not in America’s interest.

    Muir: Fear of racial profiling inhibits reports against terror.

    Sander: If you see something say something. Our people are anxious. But they are also anxious about the wealth inequality. Someone like Trump comes along and blames Mexicans and Muslims. Meanwhile the rich get richer. Trump likes low wages.

    Raddatz: Encryption. Apple CEO should be forced to help against encryption?

    Clinton: Legitimate needs from law enforcement and interests of tech companies can be resolved. Law enforcement needs planning information. There has to be a way for tech companies can work with government.

    O’Malley: Never give up our privacy and our freedoms. Gather people together to figure this out. Tech companies have a responsibility.

  8. Obama has done nothing but reach out to Muslims. In return, we got the shootings at Fort Hood and San Bernardino, while France got the attacks in Paris and Charlie Hebdo. It’s time we show them the iron fist instead.

  9. Oh, O’Malley just asked if he could give a “different generation’s view”…and he got BOOOOOOOOED!

    I have a new debate rule for both parties…each candidate gets speaking time in direct correlation to his/her current poll position.

  10. Muir: Your supporter, Gov. Hassan wants to halt Muslim immigration?

    Clinton: We don’t need a halt to Syrian immigration. This won’t happen overnight. The process should move forward. We have a history and tradition. Our value system. Don’t turn into a nation of fear. Prioritize widows and orphans.

    O’Malley: I was first to call for 65,000 to be let in. I think more should be let in. I met with Chaldean Christians. Invest more in other sorts of visas.

    Raddatz: Fight against ISIS. Why no combat troops?

    Sanders: I voted against Iraq War I and II. The U.S. of A. cannot be policeman of world. We need an international coalition with Russia. Muslim troops. Muslim money.

    Raddatz: What is your Plan B?

    Sanders: Make it work. Pay for war against ISIS.

    Raddatz: Fooling Americans by saying no ground troops?

    Clinton: We were attacked by those in Afghanistan. There has been a resurgence of Sunni activities. It would be a strategic mistake to put ground troops in. That’s what ISIS wants. Donald Trump alienates the people we need.

    Raddatz: You support sending in special forces. Vietnam?

    Clinton: False choice. Rebuild relationships and we can be successful.

    Raddatz: Intelligence community.

    O’Malley: We need more covert intelligence and diplomatic intelligence investment. Make Director of USAID a cabinet position if I’m president.

    Clinton: I’ve advocated for no fly zones. This would stop refugee outflow.

    Raddatz: Shoot down Russian planes?

    Clinton: No fly zones would help refugees and get Russians to talk. Russia should turn it’s attacks against ISIS.

    Sanders: Our differences are on this issue. I voted against Iraq War. Secy Clinton is too aggressive and too much for regime change. Create problems. Think about what happens the day after. Put together broad coalitions. Primary focus in Syria should be against ISIS not getting rid of Assad.

    Clinton: You voted for regime change in Libya. I’ve dealt with these issues for a long time.

    Muir: ISIS first or take out Assad?

    Clinton: We can do both. We won’t get support to attack ISIS if we don’t move against Assad. Both at same times. I know how hard it is to get coalitions. Sanders is wrong to ask for more help from Iran.

    Sanders: Yes, this is complicated. But our foreign policy priority is not Assad attacking the U.S. The major priority should be destruction of ISIS. Include Russia.

    O”Malley: I offer a different generation’s perspective. In Cold War we created strategies that need to be abandoned now. Clinton was gleeful after Libya. We need to get rid of Cold War thinking. We need to destroy ISIL. There should be a political process but we should not be the ones demanding when dictators should go.

    Clinton: He’s been making all kinds of comments. Assad has been killing many Syrians. I advocated arming Syrian opposition to avoid problems we face today, which I predicted. We have to do both. The world is together. If the U.S. does not lead there is a vacuum.

    Sanders: The U.S. is not the policeman of the world. We can’t fight Assad and ISIS. Then a Democratic Syria.


  11. and too bad Hillary will sound so great in the debates and then we get her back on the trail and read her Facebook and her coddling of those who want to keel us all … Hillary is simply a 3rd Obama term and I hate that

  12. Hillary dug a big hole for herself now that I’m sure Donald Trump will bury her in. I can hear him now “Oh she says I’m their biggest recruiter simply because I say I want to bomb the fuck out of them and take their oil????

  13. Creating a no fly zone for the Russians is insanity and risks a nuclear WWIII. Putin will ignore such a zone, and when another Russian plane is shot down, American planes and naval vessels will get hit with Russian surface-to-air and cruise missiles and before we know it, a huge mushroom cloud is over our heads.

  14. Muir: Middle Class.

    Sanders: Millions of Americans work longer for less. Tell billionaire class they can’t have it all. Pay fair share of taxes. Minimum wage $15. Pay equality for women. Real unemployment is 10% not 5%. Trillion dollar investment in infrastructure. Tax on Wall Street speculation for free college tuition.

    O’Malley: In my state we passed a living wage. Women and minorities included. Do more for education. Move the economy to clean energy future. We did it. I have 15 strategic goals.

    Clinton: This is such an outrage. A 70% consumption economy requires people feeling good. You won’t hear anything like this at Republican debate. Raise incomes. Costs rising. Raise minimum wage. Pass paycheck act. College affordability. Drug prices down. We need to take this debate to Republicans.

    Muir: Business loves Hillary?

    Clinton: Everybody should love Clinton. Buffett Rule. Reign in excessive use of political power to benefit the wealthy. Create more small business. Build our economy.

    Sanders: Corporate America won’t love President Sanders. Wall Street will like me even less. Elephant in room is greed, recklessness, in Wall Street. Too big to fail is bigger today. I don’t think I will get contributions from Wall Street. The greed of the billionaire class is destroying this economy. I will fight and lead.

    Muir: How important is corporate to our economy?

    O’Malley: There is a better way forward. The rest of the world is going away from socialism and I’m against crony capitalism. In last debate Clinton tried to justify crony capitalism with her 9/11 record. The concentration of six big banks is responsible for our problems. Pass modern day Glass-Steagle.

    Clinton: There are currently 2 hedge fund billionaires running ads against me. About 3% of my donations come from financial community. My donors are students and teachers. When O’Malley ran governors association he raised money at Wall Street. The difference between us and Republicans is great. I have a plan to take on Wall Street.

    Sanders: I don’t have a SuperPac. I don’t get money from Wall Street. In 1990s I fought Greenspan and Bill Clinton when they wanted to merge investment banks with savings banks. Wall Street today has too much economic and political power. They spend 5 billion dollars in last ten years.

    Raddatz: ObamaCare has raised premiums and costs.

    Clinton: I would fix the glitches. More people have access to healthcare and fixed the preconditions problem and women and young children have been helped. $5,000 tax credit is what I propose. Make sure the insurance companies are properly regulated. We need more competition.

    Raddatz: Glitches? 27% increases?

    Clinton: Yes, glitches. Build on it and fix it. Because governors did not extend Medicaid the costs rose.

    Sanders: ObamaCare is a step forward. Deductibles are rising. Millions can’t afford doctor. U.S. is only country that does not guarantee health care as a right. We spend 3x more per capita. Insurance and drug companies bribe congress so we need campaign finance reform.

    Raddatz: cost?

    Sanders: The average family will save thousands a year.

  15. The last time the US went after a leader who was an ally of the Russians was Fidel Castro in the Bay of Pigs fiasco, which resulted in Russian troops, medium range ballistic missiles and nukes stationed in Cuba, and the world almost ended in October 1962 had not cooler heads prevailed. This current policy of trying to overthrow Assad and the legitimate government of Syria in violation of the UN charter is insane, and Hillary should stop advocating it.

  16. Education costs?

    Sanders: Two pronged approach. Education costs twice as fast in growth as inflation. Many universities have vice presidents with big salaries. Many families cannot afford college. Speculation tax on Wall Street to make colleges tuition free. Radical changes needed.

    O’Malley: I have done this. As governor costs did not increase. States should get block grants. We need income based loan repayment. Tax high volume trades on Wall Street. This is a key investment.

    Clinton: I have a new college compact. States have disinvested in colleges. Federal government under my plan will match money. Free tuition only for middle class and poor families. Go to my website. Sanders’ plans would cost about $18 trillion. I pay for my proposals.

    Sanders: Clinton is wrong. Middle class will pay less for single payer.

    Muir: Tax plans. No raise under $250,000?

    Clinton: It’s the same promise Obama made. Most families haven’t had an increase in wages. I don’t think a middle class tax should be in anybodies plans.

    Sanders: When Clinton says she won’t raise taxes on middle class she disagrees with FDR and progressives. We need paid medical leave.

    Clinton: I can pay for that without middle class tax increases.

    O’Malley: I am the only one who has balanced a budget every year. I passed a progressive tax of 14% on higher incomes. We cannot afford the entitlement for the wealthy who feel entitled to lower taxes. 45% tax for wealthy.


  17. Hey! I just walked in to read the comments. Looks like I am the early winner!! (Ribs and burgers are done. Chicken is going on now and I’ll finish with some brats as the coals cool.) It seems like Hillary is developing a spine. Have her two cohorts been attacking her? Are they trying to tie Hillary to bumbles the goat? Are the questions biased? Does it seem like O’Malley finally watched an x-rated movie so that he can satisfy his wife for once? Any comments on Trumps comments about Hillary?

    Cowboys are up 1 at the half, Appalachian State won their bowl game on a last minute kick, Norther Iowa beat Iowa State by 1 in a great finish to their basketball game, and LA Tech is beating Ark St early in the 2nd quarter.

    Hillary 2016?

  18. Clinton: We lose 33,000 people a year to gun violence. Arming people is not the right response to terrorism.

    I think that statistic needs to have the hoodlums deducted from it. The dems response to violence is always to outlaw guns, when most of the violence is done with illegal guns. Hoodlums will always have guns, they don’t care if they are outlawed. So any new law is just for show and will prevent some innocent people from being able to protect themselves against the people who will always have guns….

  19. She is ignoring the experience in Switzerland, where everyone has guns and is trained to use them and mass shootings are unheard off and in France, where guns are banned for ordinary citizens, leaving them defenseless against Islamic jihadists.

  20. I didn’t watch, I’m just reading others who are. But when Hillary throws around “bigot” about Trump, which I don’t believe is true, I think she’s simply using the traditional dem playbook against the repubs. In other words, manipulating the dem audience with the beliefs they’ve been raised to have. I mean, I did use to be one, I recognize it lol (disclaimer – as an independent, I’ve learned both sides do the same things)

    And what’s with Brazille? Hillary is very clearly NOT part of the new dem party, the dem party doesn’t NEED her type anymore, she’s older, she’s white, and I think her NY house isn’t in the big city, so she can’t be “urban”. Has Donna forgotten? Has she forgotten all her mama taught her? (oh wait, she forgot it back in 2008). Maybe Donna has brain damage, and can’t remember her intelligent assessment of what the new dem party is…. can’t be that she’s a lying, opportunistic snake….

  21. Muir: Race. Ferguson effect?

    Clinton: Important challenge. Systemic racism. Reform criminal justice system. Trust has been lost. Build on Obama’s police commission. Hear the voices of those who feel like strangers in their own country. More opportunities, more jobs.

    O’Malley: When I ran for mayor of Baltimore there was a great racial divide. We built trust. Reduced incarceration rates. We policed the police. We have to embrace this moment. We should require police to report their discourtesy.

    Sanders: This whole issue concerns me. We have more people in jail than any other country. We need to end institutional racism. Police officers should not be shooting the unarmed, predominantly African-Americans. I was a mayor. Community policing. End minimal sentences. Invest in jobs and education.

    Muir: Heroin.

    Sanders: Heroin deaths growing. Tell pharma and doctors to stop pushing opiates. Addiction is a disease not a criminal activity.

    Clinton: In Keene I was asked about the NH heroin epidemic. This is a major epidemic. I have a five point plan. $10 billion to work with states from federal government. Change law enforcement.

    O’Malley: A dear friend lost his daughter to heroin. I expanded drug treatment. I have a plan.

    Raddatz: Libya falling apart. Smart power? Responsibility?

    Clinton: The U.S. was asked to support Arabs and Europe. That led to overthrow. The whole region is unstable after Arab Spring due to ISIS propaganda. We need to create a national government.

    Raddatz: Are you responsible for chaos?

    Clinton: We offered more than they were willing to take. I’m not giving up on Libya.

    Sanders: This is a complicated issue. Mossedegh, Allende, it is always easy for a powerful nation to overthrow a dictator. We have a fundamental difference. I do not like regime change.

    Clinton: You voted for regime change in Libya. I know this is difficult. I cautioned about Mubarak.

    O’Malley: We let our lust for regime change get the better of us. We need more human intelligence in that region. Now we have a stretch of land that is a safe haven for ISIL.

  22. Free tuition only for middle class and poor families.

    I don’t understand how she can say this. Does she really think most students are from rich families? I can’t say I EVER met a rich student (not that they don’t exist at all), and I spent a lot of years in school.

    And how is the free tuition for middle class going to HELP the middle class, when it’s the middle class who will have to PAY for it all, just as they are paying for Obamacare?

  23. Raddatz: First lady duties.

    Clinton: The role gets defined by the person. Obama is terrific leader on youth health. It’s a front row seat on history. I will rely on Bill for economic advice.

    Sanders: I congratulate Hillary as our first lady. My wife Jane is a foster parent. She started many programs for children. My wife will do a great job.

    O’Malley: Katy is a person who will follow her dreams. She is a more accomplished lawyer than I. She is a district court judge. She is an advocate against domestic violence, against bullying. Katy O’Malley will do what she wants to do.


  24. And I don’t understand – what right do WE have to implement a no-fly zone in Syria? Shouldn’t that be up to Syria, even if Obama hates their leader?

    And it would also conveniently keep Russia from effectively fighting ISIS* – Russia isn’t bombing empty buildings and empty oil trucks as we are.

    *If it doesn’t cause WW III…

  25. Sanders – Police officers should not be shooting the unarmed, predominantly African-Americans.

    I’m just not interested in anyone who can’t tell the truth about most of these publicized cases. I’m thoroughly fed up with PC and living in a fake world. All of these democratic candidates prop up the fake narrative of innocent black children getting gunned down, and do not tell the whole story of most of these events.

    We can’t change reality if we deny it exists….

  26. Closing statements:

    Sanders: On our worst day we have more to offer than right wing extremists. My father came from Poland. I know what it is to grow up as a son of an immigrant. My mother’s dream was to own a home. Both their sons went to college. I pledge as president to bring about a political revolution. Enough is enough. This country belongs to all of us not just a handful of billionaires.

    O’Malley: Thanks to all who tuned in. Here in NH the individual matters. We want to give our children a good future that is safer and healthier. The Republicans have anger and fear. We want comprehensive immigration reform. Investment in debt free college. Climate change is another challenge. I have a plan. New leadership.

    Clinton: The next president. If a Republican, women’s and gay rights will be at risk. Our vets will see the hospitals privatized. The differences are stark. This is a watershed election. It is important to have a Democrat succeed President Obama. As a new grandmother I want to see every child live up to God given potential. May the force be with you.


  27. How short is David Muir? Anyone notice those very thick heels on his shoes?
    I just goggled and it says he is 5’11!!! I am almost 6’2 and he looks much shorter, but hey, he is a good looking guy and getting the ratings.

  28. “May the Force be With You”

    Oh my. Really?…..REALLY??? That’s the best you can do in your closing statement? Stupid.

  29. The next president. If a Republican, women’s and gay rights will be at risk.

    See, this is just Hillary using the another tired old talking point. I find it cheap and it should be beneath Hillary – and she’s saying Trump is running on stoking fear – what is she doing with this statement??? C’mon Hillary, you know that Santorum isn’t going to win. No one with a chance of winning has any history of passing laws or talking about oppressing women and gays. Trump says he doesn’t believe in gay marriage, but he’s entitled to his religious opinion, and gay marriage is a done deal now. So why is Hillary trying to stoke fear as she accuses all republicans of doing? Cheap.

  30. Voting Hillary – my response to you on last thread that went down the rabbit hold has shown up, here it is

    December 19, 2015 at 2:18 pm

    Shadow, I think I understand what Lorac is trying to say. Hillary stood up to China with her “women’s rights are human rights”, but does not appear to be holding Muslims to the same standard and is supporting their “import” into this country. Neither does the 3rd wave of women’s rights activists hold Muslims feet to the fire of equality. They are so busy being “inclusive” and supporting whatever liberal meme is being driven down their throats that they are now rallying for Muslims even though that religion treats women as incidental unless they are willing to blow themselves up for Allah.

    Thanks, Voting Hillary. I’m not sure if Shadow was referring to my post or not. But I thought my references were clear, but maybe not, and you definitely explained it better than I did!

    What was once LG is now LGBTQ.

    Uh oh you’re dating yourself lol. It’s way longer now. I have a lot of resources saved on my work computer, and one folder is called “gay” for resources for lesbians and gays. My intern last year told me that it’s now LGBTQabcdefg – I don’t remember what all she said was in there now. My response was that it appears very inclusive, but IMO, it’s very wide but very shallow, because all those people do NOT identify with each other.

    IMO, technically even L and G shouldn’t be together, because again IMO, lesbians are a whole lot more like straight women than they are like gay men. The only similarity between lesbians and gay men is that they have both been vilified and attacked, and that they both prefer the same gender as themselves in a mate.

    Transsexual???? In NO way does that belong, because that’s a gender identity issue, and is not a sexual preference issue (although it can be confusing when they’re changing their gender, do they now like the same gender they previously liked, or do they choose what would now be the socially appropriate gender for a mate).

    The transsexual inclusion particularly infuriates me. I think “they” had no where else to stick them, and they’re such a tiny minority they felt they couldn’t stand on their own, so they stuck them with gay people. But they don’t belong there. IMVSO. I just made that up lol In My Very Strong Opinion.

  31. Voting Hillary – my response to you at the end of the last thread went down the rabbit hole, but later appeared. So I pasted it here, and it went down the rabbit hole again. I must have used some forbidden word or something. Anyway, it’s on last thread at 2:18 pm if you’re interested.

  32. I did see it on the last thread, lorac, and yes, I am dating myself with the LG comment, but then again, I was part of the first wave so that is to be expected! Maybe my name is the forbidden word!

    BTW, the difference between someone trying to bridge the generation gap:


    and someone polling at less than 5%:


    Who told O’Malley that his “generational” line was a good idea? Bet that person will be saying hello to Bernie’s tech guy in the unemployment line on Monday.

    Otris, it’s called having a sense of humor instead of being too full of yourself. Nice job, Hillary.

  33. VH – I thought the first wave was the suffragettes, 1920…? I’m second wave, my dad called me a women’s libber when I was ten (1970) but I became conscious of the actual movement watching Billie Jean King play tennis, and the feud with Bobby Riggs, and being more aware of stuff going on in the world in general. I guess I don’t actually know when second wave started… do you by any chance…?

    oh, I just looked it up quickly on wikipedia

    Second-wave feminism is a period of feminist activity that first began in the early 1960s in the United States, and eventually spread throughout the Western world and beyond. In the United States the movement lasted through the early 1980s…. snip

    Whereas first-wave feminism focused mainly on suffrage and overturning legal obstacles to gender equality (i.e., voting rights, property rights), second-wave feminism broadened the debate to a wide range of issues: sexuality, family, the workplace, reproductive rights, de facto inequalities, and official legal inequalities.[4] At a time when mainstream women were making job gains in the professions, the military, the media, and sports in large part because of second-wave feminist advocacy, second-wave feminism also drew attention to domestic violence and marital rape issues, establishment of rape crisis and battered women’s shelters, and changes in custody and divorce law. Its major effort was the attempted passage of the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) to the United States Constitution…snip

    Many historians view the second-wave feminist era in America as ending in the early 1980s with the intra-feminism disputes of the feminist sex wars over issues such as sexuality and pornography, which ushered in the era of third-wave feminism in the early 1990s.

  34. lorac, I was talking first wave gay rights supporters….Lord, I am not that old! I just feel like I am. 🙂

  35. Yes, I suspected you weren’t, but I didn’t know for sure – ABM 90 was here for a long time, I think he was ABM 93 the last time he posted…? I never thought of the gay rights movement as having waves, I didn’t realize. What wave am I, if I’m 55?

  36. I caught just parts of the debate. Hillary really had no peers to challenge her and stood head and shoulders over the clowns.

    Her positions on the ME are very troubling. The central terror funding comes from Saudi Arabia and Turkey, so shameful we are part of it. The US recently “accidently” bombed Iraqi troops, killing 10 who were amongst the best fighting ISIS. This give credence to theories that we are not just allowing ISIS to thrive, but are fostering them. ISIS is Obama’s baby and he is using them in Syria. THIS is who BO really is. He is dipping the hands of every American, who turns a blind eye to this, in blood. And this is a major faction of their one world governance. Get used to the beheadings.

    It is like US support of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. WRONG.

    The US is WRONG on Assad and Putin. Putin is more of an advocate of the populous than BO is. Look at the hypocrisy of supporting Erdogan in Turkey. Her position on Syria simply reflects her support of this horror of a NWO they are perpetrating on us.

    Same for importing low wage workers and misogynistic muslims. She does not walk what she talks. There are too many glaring discrepancies.

  37. Obama continues to sell out America. Literally.

    12/19/2015 – Obama Abruptly Waives 1980 Foreign Investment in Real Property Tax Act (FIRPTA)

    However, it is one thing to shut the doors to American investing abroad but it is quite another to fully open the doors to foreigners! It begs the question why, why now and why the change needed to happen so urgently?


  38. lorac
    December 19, 2015 at 10:38 pm

    And I don’t understand – what right do WE have to implement a no-fly zone in Syria? Shouldn’t that be up to Syria, even if Obama hates their leader?

    We are there illegally.
    Russia is there legally. 🙂

  39. Here is Larry Johnson’s take on the US involvement in Syria:


    Barack Obama’s Syrian Lies Continue, Hiding from Reality

    Barack Obama’s description in today’s end of the year press conference about how the current mess in Syria came about sounded plausible but was beyond disingenuous. It was a bald-faced, manipulative lie.

    The heart of the lie is this–that Bashar Assad is such an evil, brutal son of a bitch that the majority of Syrians rose up spontaneously to oust him and that the United States was a mere by-stander and Obama did nothing in terms of his Presidential powers to move the needle. There are lies and then there are damned lies. Barack Obama is a damned liar.

    Let’s review the timeline. George W. Bush started funding Syrian opposition groups in 2005, according to U.S. State Department cables obtained by Wikileaks:

    The State Department has secretly financed Syrian political opposition groups and related projects, including a satellite TV channel that beams anti-government programming into the country, according to previously undisclosed diplomatic cables.

    The London-based satellite channel, Barada TV, began broadcasting in April 2009 but has ramped up operations to cover the mass protests in Syria as part of a long-standing campaign to overthrow the country’s autocratic leader, Bashar al-Assad. . . .The U.S. money for Syrian opposition figures began flowing under President George W. Bush after he effectively froze political ties with Damascus in 2005. The financial backing has continued under President Obama. . .

    Syria became more of a target for destabilization as the Arab Spring gained momentum. Obama, with the full support of Hillary Clinton, turned not only his attention but directed covert intelligence resources to step up the campaign against Syria’s Assad in early 2011.

    The protests started on 15 March 2011, when protesters marched in the capital of Damascus, demanding democratic reforms and the release of political prisoners. The security forces retaliated by opening fire on the protesters,[146] and according to witnesses who spoke to the BBC, the government forces detained six of them.[147] The protest was triggered by the arrest of a boy and his friends by the government for writing the graffiti, “The people want the fall of the regime”, in the city of Daraa.[146][148] Louai al-Hussein, an analyst and writer wrote that “Syria is now on the map of countries in the region with an uprising”.[148] On the 20th, the protesters burned down a Ba’ath Party headquarters and “other buildings”. The ensuing clashes claimed the lives of seven police officers[149] and 15 protesters.[150] Ten days later in a speech, President Bashar al-Assad blamed “foreign conspirators” pushing Israeli propaganda for the protests.[151]

    Syria’s al-Assad was not paranoid nor hallucinating. A deliberate campaign, with the assistance of the United States, to destabilize Syria was launched, which included funneling money to opposition leaders in Syria. Part of this was cynical campaign to force the Syrian Government to fight back, create casualties and, in the process, further enrage the Syrian population. But the target was not Syria. Syria was merely a stepping stone for the broader campaign to block the spread of Iranian influence in the region. By August of 2011, Saudi Arabia took the lead, along with Turkey, of demanding the ouster of Assad:

    Saudi Arabia’s King Abdullah has spoken out against the Syrian regime. But as Babak Dehghanpisheh reports, the move was also a shot at Syria’s ally: Iran.

    The message was about as blunt as it gets. Saudi Arabia’s King Abdullah issued a statement on Sunday calling for the Syrian regime to “stop the killing machine.”“Large numbers of martyrs have fallen, their blood has been shed, and many others have been wounded,” he said. “This is not in accord with religion, values, and morals.” To drive the point home, King Abdullah recalled the Saudi ambassador in Damascus on Monday; Kuwait and Bahrain quickly followed suit.On the surface, this seems like a strong position taken by one of the region’s most influential Arab governments. After all, at least 2,000 Syrians have been killed since the violent crackdown began in March.But why did it take five months for the Saudis to speak up? “The Saudis have been leading the antidemocratic transformation in the Arab world, trying to push back the Arab Awakening,” says Rami Khouri, director of the Issam Fares Institute at the American University of Beirut. “So it’s kind of out of character for them to suddenly join the chorus of people who are pressuring the Syrians.”
    The reality is that the harsh message wasn’t aimed only at Syria. The elderly Saudi king was also taking a straight jab at another country: Iran, Syria’s most prominent regional ally. “[The Saudis] want to destroy the single and only foreign-policy success of the Iranian Islamic Revolution, which is [establishing] links with Syria and Hizbullah,” Khouri says.

    The United States and Barack Obama were not idle by-standers as this conflict escalated. Obama made the decision in the February/March 2012 timeframe, with the full backing of Hillary, to use the CIA and other intelligence assets to oust Assad. This included the movement of Libyan arms from Benghazi to Syria via Turkey.

    On August 1, 2012, Reuter’s Marc Hosenball reported:

    President Barack Obama has signed a secret order authorizing U.S. support for rebels seeking to depose Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and his government, sources familiar with the matter said.

    Obama’s order, approved earlier this year and known as an intelligence “finding,” broadly permits the CIA and other U.S. agencies to provide support that could help the rebels oust Assad.

    But Obama’s policy, rather than help bring democracy to Syria, brought death, refugees and empowered the the radical Islamists keen on establishing Sunni predominance in a country that previously had no dominant sectarian influence.

    Barack Obama also continues to delude himself into believing that the Russian military support for Syria is a fool’s errand. However, he is the only fool in this situation. Syria, with the support of Russia and Iran, continue to make steady progress in re-taking territory from the rebels and re-establishing government control. ABC News reported earlier this week:

    Syrian troops and allied militiamen seized control of a sprawling military air base near Damascus on Monday, bolstering the government’s presence in a key area overwhelmingly controlled by opposition forces.

    The Marj al-Sultan air base lies in the eastern suburb of Damascus known as Eastern Ghouta, and had been held by rebels for the past three years.

    Bloomberg reported today that Russia’s efforts in Syria have brought some US operations to a halt:

    There is a new crisis for the international effort to destroy the Islamic State, created by the Kremlin. The U.S. has stopped flying manned air-support missions for rebels in a key part of northern Syria due to Russia’s expansion of air defense systems there, and the Barack Obama administration is scrambling to figure out what to do about it.

    Russia’s military operations inside Syria have been expanding in recent weeks, and the latest Russian deployments, made without any advance notice to the U.S., have disrupted the U.S.-led coalition’s efforts to support Syrian rebel forces fighting against the Islamic State near the Turkey-Syria border, just west of the Euphrates River, several Obama administration and U.S. defense officials told us. This crucial part of the battlefield, known inside the military as Box 4, is where a number of groups have been fighting the Islamic State for control, until recently with overhead support from U.S. fighter jets.

    But earlier this month, Moscow deployed an SA-17 advanced air defense system near the area and began “painting” U.S. planes, targeting them with radar in what U.S. officials said was a direct and dangerous provocation. The Pentagon halted all manned flights, although U.S. drones are still flying in the area. Russia then began bombing the rebels the U.S. had been supporting. (U.S. manned airstrikes continue elsewhere in Syria.)

    These facts seem to matter little to Barack Obama, the press and the American people. But the realities on the ground in Syria are quite different and no amount of Obama delusion and pretend ignorance will alter those facts.

  40. The hard question, of course, is how do we get politicians to act in our interest rather than their own. If the answer is to replace a bad democrat with a bad republican then we have achieved not a thing. And when money and influence have neutered the checks and balances which Madison built into the system, thanks to craven cowards like John Roberts, where is the answer. This business of allowing foreign investment to run riot in this country, as it has in my city, and Tony can attest to this, although my perspective is based on an entire life time living here, and seeing so much of what is old and stable being torn down and replaced with rabbit warrens, where people live like rabbits and pay through the nose. Massive foreign investment has been the catalyst. But getting back to the point, the currents system consists not merely of corruption, but of layers of corruption, where the parasite threatens the life of the host. Paul Ryan’s budget is proof of how difficult it is to stop the machine until things became well and truly desperate. So how will the system change? Richard Fernadez suggests that that will not happen until the level of corruption threatens the elites, after everyone else has been thrown to the wolves. Consequently, reform, properly understood, has its roots on earth not in heaven and it occurs only when the elites act out of desperation to save their own necks.
    In most political morality tales a band of courageous reformers take on a corrupt city hall and — for a while at least — triumph until an evil human nature reasserts itself. But in actuality the impetus for moderating political excess often comes from the elites themselves when mismanagement finally becomes so bad it threatens the survival of everyone.

    Until things reach the point of failure mismanagement has the effect of leaving voters no alternative but content themselves with the opposition party. Republican voters may have been disappointed and outraged at the perceived sellout by a Paul Ryan-led Congress to the Obama administration. “It was another Republican “compromise” meaning Democrats got every item they asked for,” said the Drudge Report. The left leaning Slate crowed “the new speaker’s first big deal is just like all of the ones that infuriated conservatives under Boehner.

    But what were the Republican voters going to do? Vote for Hillary Clinton? While the money lasts voter outrage has remarkably little effect on the political elites. They may stand with their fists balled and teeth clenched but the system serenely goes on and on.

    Corruption– is what Terry Golway, who served on the editorial board of the New York Times called “modern American politics”. In a book titled Machine Made, he argues that Tammany Hall was a key innovation in governance and under the leadership of Boss Tweed functioned as a dispenser of social justice to Irish immigrants.

    Rooted in Jeffersonian democracy and transformed by the massive Irish immigration of the mid-nineteenth century, Tammany Hall, New York City’s Democratic organization, became synonymous with machine politics. … An expert in Irish-American history, Golway unsurprisingly sees the origins of this form of political organization in Irish anti-institutional activism. In overcoming and battling nativism in America, reaching out, albeit not selflessly, to new immigrant groups … the organization became, through Senator Robert F. Wagner, a major factor in the New Deal and, later, American liberalism.
    “The Tweed ring at its height was an engineering marvel, strong and solid, strategically deployed to control key power points: the courts, the legislature, the treasury and the ballot box. Its frauds had a grandeur of scale and an elegance of structure: money-laundering, profit sharing and organization.” It was based on identity politics, relying heavily on Irish Catholics freshly arrived from the great famine. But Tweed also had a base among the financial elite,who he paid off with what we would now call “crony capitalist” deals. Tammany fixed contracts, manipulated real estate deals, received kickbacks, engaged in voter fraud and bribed prosecutors.

    Under Tweed’s regime, “naturalization committees” were established. These “committees” were made up primarily of Tammany politicians and employees, and their duties consisted of filling out paperwork, providing witnesses, and lending immigrants money for the fees required to become citizens. Judges and other city officials were bribed and otherwise compelled to go along with the workings of these committees. In exchange for all these benefits, immigrants assured Tammany Hall they would vote for their candidates.

    Perhaps the most recent nod to Tammany Hall was by Barack Obama, who only a few days ago compared the importation Muslims with the Democratic machine’s encouragement Irish immigration. “In the Muslim immigrant today, we see the Catholic immigrant of a century ago,” the president said at a naturalization ceremony a few days ago.

    Where have you gone Boss Tweed? The nation, or at least Obama’s administration, turns its lonely eyes to you. What some observers might regard rank corruption was to Golway a mission of social justice. He told Lawrence O’Donnell in an interview: “Tammany Hall was about social reform … the minimum wage … about making life easier for immigrants … a voice for the voiceless.”

    It was social justice all the way, besides which resistance was useless. As the saying went that “you can’t fight city hall”. You couldn’t, but reality could. Nothing could stop Tweed, even though riots in the streets eventually weakened him, except the lack of money caused by corruption.

    After the election of 1869, Tweed took control of the New York City government. His protégé, John T. Hoffman, the former mayor of the city, won election as governor, and Tweed garnered the support of good government reformers like Peter Cooper and the Union League Club, by proposing a new city charter which returned power to City Hall at the expense of the Republican-inspired state commissions. The new charter passed, thanks in part to $600,000 in bribes Tweed paid to Republicans, and was signed into law by Hoffman in 1870. Mandated new elections allowed Tammany to take over the city’s Common Council when they won all fifteen aldermanic contests. …

    Tweed’s downfall came in the wake of the Orange riot of 1871, which came after Tammany Hall banned a parade of Irish Protestants celebrating a historical victory against Catholicism, because of a riot the year before in which eight people died when a crowd of Irish Catholic laborers attacked the paraders. Under strong pressure from the newspapers and the Protestant elite of the city, Tammany reversed course, and the march was allowed to proceed, with protection from city policemen and state militia. The result was an even larger riot in which over 60 people were killed and more than 150 injured. …

    Although Tammany’s electoral power base was largely centered in the Irish immigrant population, it also needed the city’s elite to acquiesce in its rule, and this was conditional on the machine’s ability to control the actions of their people, but the July riot showed that this capability was not nearly as strong as had been supposed.

    The riots were the first sign that Tweed’s social justice machine was crumbling under its own weight. What finally finished it was that Tammany had bankrupted New York.

    The response to the Orange riot changed everything, and only days afterwards the Times/Nast campaign began to garner popular support. More importantly, the Times started to receive inside information from County Sheriff James O’Brien, whose support for Tweed had fluctuated during Tammany’s reign. O’Brien had tried to blackmail Tammany by threatening to expose the ring’s embezzlement to the press, and when this failed he provided the evidence he had collected to the Times.

    The exposé provoked an international crisis of confidence in New York City’s finances, and, in particular, in its ability to repay its debts. European investors were heavily positioned in the city’s bonds and were already nervous about its management – only the reputations of the underwriters were preventing a run on the city’s securities. New York’s financial and business community knew that if the city’s credit was to collapse, it could potentially bring down every bank in the city with it.

    Thus, the city’s elite met at Cooper Union in September to discuss political reform: but for the first time, the conversation included not only the usual reformers, but also Democratic bigwigs such as Samuel J. Tilden, who had been thrust aside by Tammany. The general consensus was that the “wisest and best citizens” should take over the governance of the city and attempt to restore investor confidence. The result was the formation of the Executive Committee of Citizens and Taxpayers for Financial Reform of the City (also known as “the Committee of Seventy”), which attacked Tammany by cutting off the city’s funding. Property owners refused to pay their municipal taxes, and a judge – Tweed’s old friend George Barnard, no less – enjoined the city Comptroller from issuing bonds or spending money. Unpaid workers turned against Tweed, marching to City Hall demanding to be paid. Tweed doled out some funds from his own purse – $50,000 – but it was not sufficient to end the crisis, and Tammany began to lose its essential base.

    Shortly thereafter, the Comptroller resigned, appointing Andrew Haswell Green, an associate of Tilden’s, as his replacement. Green loosened the purse strings again, allowing city departments not under Tammany control to borrow money to operate. Green and Tilden had the city’s records closely examined, and discovered money that went directly from city contractors into Tweed’s pocket. The following day, they had Tweed arrested.

    Tweed was ditched when he couldn’t meet the payroll; when he became bad for business. In 2011 Fred Siegel drew parallels between the modern Federal Government and the storied 19th century political machine, arguing that Washington was the 21st century reincarnation of Tammany Hall; an organization which existed only to pay itself, an arrangement maintained by public sector unions.

    The Great Society put the state on growth hormones. Less widely appreciated, the era gave birth to a powerful new political force, the public-sector union. For the first time in American history there was an interest dedicated wholly to lobbying for a larger government and the taxes and debt to pay for it….
    “public sector unions are displacing political machines as the turnout mechanism for the Democratic Party. They are the new Tammany Hall.”

    Paul Ryan’s budget is proof of how difficult it is to stop the machine until things became well and truly desperate. Siegel noted that “reform” was really another word for the elites acting to save their own necks.

    During its own “lost decade” after 1993, Canada shaped up its finances and it has weathered the latest economic crises well. New Zealand’s Roger Douglas in the 1980s and Germany’s Gerhard Schröder in the early 2000s cut into expensive welfare states. In all these cases, Mr. Siegel notes, center-left parties carried out painful reform. “They did this out of necessity.” Sooner or later, American politicians will face the “unavoidable” reckoning, he adds. “It’s not the mean tea partiers who force this. It’s the facts on the ground.”

    This implies that while the moral impulse to reform is necessary, it is not a sufficient condition to achieve change. The Federal government and both political parties can shrug off outrage until a financial and/or political crisis brings the house of cards down. Perhaps the best thing about the budget deal is it brings the cliff a trillion dollars closer.

    The final irony of Tweed’s eventful life was that he died in a prison made with his kickbacks. After Tweed fell from power, beggared and rearrested after an attempt to pose an ordinary seaman on a Spanish ship he was returned to the US, where he died in Ludlow Jail. The New York history site Bowery Boys notes that the doctor who pronounced Tweed’s death mentions it was brought on by “prolonged confinement in a unhealthful locality.” An unhealthful locality in Ludlow was where they put you when you couldn’t pay the graft.

    Overseen by the Board of Aldermen—including Boss Tweed years before he would get caught stealing millions of dollars from the city—the Ludlow Street Jail was constructed in 1862 on the corner of Ludlow and Broome Streets in lower Manhattan. …

    Corruption ran rampant through the New York City government at the time, so it is no wonder that the Ludlow Street Jail slipped almost immediately into the world of back-door deals and shady habits. In a New York Times piece from November 4th, 1871, a Judge Barnard, in the process of discharging a number of inmates, was quoted as saying, “I’ve had occasion to look into the matter of Ludlow-street jail, and find that it is as well kept as any jail can be in the point of health and good treatment, […] the chief in that department, Judge Brennan, is not only as kind and humane a man as any in the community, but is an honest man,” Of course this could not have been further from the truth. …

    In reality, Brennan was running the prison like a black-market hotel. In May of 1871, the New York Tribune arranged to have one of its reporters incarcerated in the Ludlow jail to check on some strange rumors about the facility. The reporter found that inmates were being offered better treatment and accommodations if they shelled out between $15 and $30 per week for the privilege. Inmates who couldn’t pay were trundled off to the top cramped top floors of the prison, where they were crammed into too-small cells where there often weren’t enough beds for everyone. Given that a huge majority of the inmates were dead-broke debtors, there was no way they could be expected to pay for this extortion.

    Perhaps in the end the Boss was done in by the very system he created. For want of $30 bucks and missing all the friends he once had. That’s the way political machines usually end, with the Bosses devouring themselves and the survivors declaring themselves the righteous winners.

  41. Hillary has made herself a rubber stamp for Obama’s policies.

    Hillary serves the same masters who are rushing head long to world goverment.

    How different from the Hillary we saw in 2008–the anti Hillary in fact.

    Therefore, I for one, had no interest in watching the “debate.”

    And I am mad enough that I really do not need to feel the burn.

    Bernie and Mike Gravel—two loons separated by only eight years.

  42. Bernie is just a grievance monger. He gives voice to the legitimate angst of young people seeing a system which is so heavily weighted against their interests. But beyond that he is the man from la mancha, tilting windmills, etc.

  43. There is that old saying by deToquville I believe it was that our democracy will be finished when the political class is able to bribe people with their own money to keep them in power and to pursue policies which are good for politicians but bad for the republic.

  44. I may have posted this headline here awhile ago:
    Drone strikes fuel the hatred that led to paris attacks, ex-drone pilots say _ motherboard by poiskspider on Dec 5th, 2015
    Snip Now four former US drone operators who took part in remote assassination missions in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere are pushing back, describing in intimate detail the inner workings and culture of the US drone program, which they say is fueling the resentment that drives the kind of violence recently seen in Paris….

    And here again drones are cited.
    CNN FactChecks Hillary Clinton’s Claim About ISIS Using Donald Trump To Recruit As False

  45. wbboei,

    I think that things are about to get bad enough to facilitate change. That is why we see the emergence of Trump. In a real way, he is an opportunist. Waiting for this time. We are entering a period of massive global economic deflation. The NWO will use this to try to implement their agenda. The Nations will need to respond. The populous will need to choose again between freedom and serfdom. I can only pray, that the NWO have revealed themselves sufficiently to provide the populous with revulsion over what they are.

    I know I am horrified and disgusted.

  46. Hillary falsely claiming according to CNN that ISIS is using Trump to recruit members was a bad move on her part. That just ends up further fueling the GOP narrative that she is a liar about everything else like Benghazi and about keeping top secret emails on a unsecured personal server.

  47. In fact, I wonder if it was Obama’s droids that told her to say that about Trump and ISIS in order to sabotage her.

  48. HRC put on some feminine wiles when she returned late from the break, and in that, I think she did a disservice to all women, but mostly herself.

    Meantime, if the GOP JV team would do more of this while they linger in the race, it would be a very good thing:

    A fired-up Sen. Rand Paul said Sunday he voted against the massive $1.1 trillion spending bill because not only was it rushed through Congress — but no one had a chance to read it.
    “It was over a trillion dollars, it was all lumped together, 2,242 pages, nobody read it, so frankly my biggest complaint is that I have no idea what kind of things they stuck in that bill in the middle of the night,” Paul, R-Ky., said on “The Cats Roundtable,” a New York-based radio talk show.
    “I voted against it because I won’t vote for these enormous bills that no one has a chance to read,” the GOP White House hopeful said.
    On Friday, President Obama signed the legislation into law.

  49. (CNN)The Las Vegas Strip was blocked off after a car ran down as many as 20 pedestrians Sunday night, authorities said.

  50. HRC put on some feminine wiles

    holdem – what do you mean? Did she change her clothing, or was it a behavioral change….? TIA!

  51. The democrats and the rinos, aka the extablishment

    1/ favor non citizens over citizens

    2/ favor criminals over law abiding citizens

    3/ place inextinguishable debt on citizens to reward their donors, and

    4/ lie through their teeth

    And they wonder why people support Trump?

  52. lorac
    December 20, 2015 at 3:52 am
    I never thought of the gay rights movement as having waves, I didn’t realize. What wave am I, if I’m 55?

    Well, here is what I have witnessed in my lifetime and why I say the gay rights movement has waves.

    The first wave was the Stonewall wave, late 1960’s to late 1970’s, when the LG crowd got tired of being harrassed by police in LG clubs simply because they were LG clubs. It was when the LG community started to come out of the shadows…I prefer that phrase to out of the closet.

    The second wave was the activist wave from the early 80’s to mid/late 80’s which was due to the AIDS crisis. This was when preachers said AIDS was God’s curse on gays so of course, no funding for a cure until Reagan’s buddy Rock Hudson announced he had AIDS. The lesbian community stood up for gay men and also did much in the way of fundraising and hospice assistance during this period. AIDS was virtually non-existant in the lesbian community…I guess that makes me one of God’s chosen ones. (and before anyone gets “offended”, I am not disparaging God, in whom I do believe..I am Irishcatholic lesbian..yes, that is two words not three and also proof-positive that God has a sense of humor.)

    The third wave was what I like to call the MTV wave..1985 to the mid 90’s. This was when the B (bisexual)got attached to the LG fight for equality. Madonna, Boy George, Pet Shop Boys and Elton John all professed their bi-sexuality, but truth was it was now hip to be sexually experimental and being gay (or at least..sexually fluid) was now a marketing tool rather than a fight for equality.

    The fourth wave 1997 until gay marriage was upheld by the Supreme Court. It was when Ellen DeGeneres came out but not for publicity as much as to show LG (and now B)individuals as human beings to be judged by who they were as a person rather than by their sexuality. The show was unique in its sense of humanity vs. pounding over the head. Because she conducted herself that way, more doors were opened, more rights won and “gay marriage” became the rally cry of liberals, not necessarily the LG community. This was when the LG community lost control and it was overtaken by the “progressives” of all sexuality. This is when LG community began to divide.

    The fifth wave is now…progressives have hijacked the LG fight for equality to include the transsexual(T)community and this is the wave that has once again suppressed lesbian/women’s rights in order to further the male dominate agenda. The Michigan Women’s Festival ended after 40 years due to threats from trans-women (MEN) threatening to sue if they could not attend. Glamour gives Woman of the Year to Caitlyn Jenner etc.

    Which wave you are is completely dependent on when/if you identify LG. You may be an LG…or LGB..or LGBT.

    Does that help?

  53. Shadow – I was just reading some more on the accident you posted – they’re saying it was a black female, she had a 3 y/o in the car, they’re ruling out terrorism but say it was intentional. Alcohol and drug tests haven’t come back yet. Apparently she ran over one group of people, then sped up and ran into another group. People were running alongside her car telling her to stop, trying to break window to reach in to stop her.

  54. lorac, i read the same and it just boggles my mind that she would do that with a 3-y/o in the car…why would you bring that child to the Vegas Strip????

    I was end of 1st wave/2nd wave for LG rights…I am done with it all due to the fifth wave. I am Lesbian/woman..period.

  55. VotingHillary
    December 21, 2015 at 1:45 am

    Thanks for the info Voting. As a straight woman I never understood why the acronym keep changing and getting longer and longer.

    I sensed that there was some animosity between the groups, especially when I was in Denver in 2008 and got to know many lesbians from PUMAPac.

  56. lorac
    December 21, 2015 at 1:46 am

    People that are drunk usually don’t aim for a group of people to run over. I wondered at what point intentionally killing groups of innocent people, becomes terrorism?

    Having a small child in the car though all of this just boggles the mind.

    Sometimes I am really ashamed of calling myself a human being.

  57. VH – I noticed something that you may have too – a parallel between the imploding of black civil rights movement and the imploding of the feminist movement.

    Black civil rights started out demanding equality, and there was a big push for fair inclusion in education – education was recognized as a way out of the ghetto. There was a focus on changing laws to reflect more equitable treatment. It has devolved to where studying is “acting white”, being criminal is “keeping it real”, and the genuine black experience by a large segment of blacks is defined as a life of poverty, crime, and no self-accountability, only blame for the hated whites.

    The women’s movement started out demanding equality, most primarily the right to vote. They were determined – handcuffing themselves to the White House, the hunger strikes and forced feedings in jail. They were strong, determined women. There was a focus on legal changes. Now we’re left with the 3rd wave which was all about prostitution being a worthy lifestyle, acting in pornography was empowering, etc. Currently the 3rd wave gets the vapors and needs trigger warnings (the men too), they’re against the first amendment because someone’s feelings might get hurt – IMO, they’re NOT strong women, and they have no conception of the importance of the first amendment or even our entire constitution. They’re weak and ignorant. And of course the whole women’s studies area has been convoluted with taking care of everyone else’s problems (how stereotypically “woman”, or “mother”).

    Both movements have become pathetic, IMO. (Although, huge progress has been made, so it’s questionable whether the “movements” are even still needed, but maybe that’s part of the reason they’ve crashed….)

  58. Shadow, please bear in mind what I wrote is just my “ole fart” take of what has happened to the LG community. It should be interpreted as my opinion and nothing more than that.

    lorac, I think both the equality movements you mentioned, as well as the LG movement, got hijacked by “progressives” claiming to be supporters. In truth, progressives have become the “nanny state” of those treated unequal in this country.

    I fear the evolution for equality be it LG, women or black equality has devolved into now “safe spaces”. “Safe spaces” are not equality but an excuse to avoid reality. You just can’t blame everything that goes wrong in your world based on race, sex, creed or sexual orientation. “Safe spaces” not only separates you from the rest of humanity, it assumes you consider yourself privileged to not deal with reality. I know when I fought for LG rights, I wasn’t looking for a safe space, just to be treated equally.

  59. lorac December 20, 2015 at 11:27 pm TIA
    There are times I check what I’ve typed. /;

  60. wbboei is our longtime redstate watchman, yet twitter led me to this which I add with my own twist:
    Can it be that HRC is getting back at the two men in her life who have so maligned her?

    It Is Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, Not Donald Trump, In An ISIS Recruiting Video [VIDEO]
    A new ISIS recruiting video, titled “No Respite” has been released.The video is interesting because it lays out in very plain terms how ISIS views itself. Anyone who views this an can still say that ISIS is not truly Islamic is either a liar or a blithering idiot. This is the video in full. It is a little over 4 minutes and worth watching.
    In it, some prominent Americans do appear.
    Donald Trump is not among them.

  61. When elections do not turn out as the oligarchy wants, they just change the rules:

    Spain May Need Second Election After Anti-Austerity Party Scores Big At Ballot Box

    “Today sees the start of a new political era,” Podemos leader Pablo Iglesias told supporters gathered in Madrid after Sunday’s largely inconclusive elections in Spain. “The forces of change are making a historic advance.”

    Iglesias is certainly correct that things have changed. Spain’s three-decade old political duopoly was toppled over the weekend with PP and PSOE garnering their lowest combined share of the vote since the eighties.


  62. Admin, you had flagged this idiot, Palmieri long time ago. Why is she still with Hillary’s campaign and why hasn’t Hillary fired her?

  63. Tony Stark
    December 21, 2015 at 10:40 am

    Graham should have quit months ago, but he was too stupid.
    Tru Dat Tony,
    And a lot more should follow his leas and quit. 🙂

  64. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/12/21/as-muslim-women-we-actually-ask-you-not-to-wear-the-hijab-in-the-name-of-interfaith-solidarity/?postshare=7291450707183931&tid=ss_fb

    […]For us, as mainstream Muslim women, born in Egypt and India, the spectacle at the mosque was a painful joke and reminder of the well-financed effort by conservatives to dominate modern Muslim societies. This modern-day movement spreads an ideology of political Islam, called “Islamism,” enlisting unsuspecting well-intentioned do-gooders, while promoting the headscarf for women as a virtual “sixth pillar” of Islam, after the traditional “five pillars,” the shahada (or proclamation of faith), prayer, fasting, charity and pilgrimage. We reject this interpretation. We are not too sexy for our hair.

    This modern-day movement, codified by Iran, Saudi Arabia, Taliban Afghanistan and the Islamic State, has erroneously made the Arabic word hijab synonymous with “headscarf,” furthering a sexist interpretation of Islam that women and girls must “protect” their “honor” by covering their hair. Hijab literally means, “curtain” in Arabic. It also means “hiding,” ”obstructing” and “isolating” someone or something. It is never used in the Koran to mean headscarf.

    Journalists and media outlets must stop making the mistake of defining hijab as “headscarf,” furthering a sexist propaganda campaign to equate the two.

    In colloquial Arabic, the word for “headscarf” is tarha. In classical Arabic, “head” is al-ra’as and cover is gheta’a. No matter what formula you use, hijab never means headscarf.

    Born in the 1960s into conservative but open-minded families (Hala in Egypt and Asra in India), we grew up without an edict that we had to cover our hair. But, starting in the 1980s, following the 1979 Iranian revolution of the minority Shia sect and the rise of well-funded Saudi clerics from the majority Sunni sect, we have experienced bullying to cover our hair from men and boys – and women and girls, who are sometimes called “enforce-hers” and “Muslim mean girls,” for example, telling jokes about “hijabis” in skinny jeans actually being “ho-jabis,” using the indelicate term for “whores.”

    In interpretations from the 7th century to today, theologians, from the late Moroccan scholar Fatima Mernissi to UCLA’s Khaled Abou El Fadl, and Harvard’s Leila Ahmed, Egypt’s Zaki Badawi, Iraq’s Abdullah al Judai and Pakistan’s Javaid Ghamidi, have clearly established that Muslim women are not required to cover their hair.

    Challenging the hijab

    To us, the headscarf is a symbol of an interpretation of Islam we reject that believes that women are a sexual distraction to men, who are weak, and, thus, we must cover ourselves. We don’t buy it. This ideology promotes a social attitude that absolves men of sexually harassing women and puts the onus on the victim to protect herself by covering up. […]

  65. The Religion of Peace raping it’s way across Europe:

    Germans Stock Up on Weapons for Self-Defense

    The scramble to acquire weapons comes amid an indisputable nationwide spike in migrant-driven crime, including rapes of German women and girls on a shocking scale, as well as physical assaults, stabbings, home invasions, robberies and burglaries — in cities and towns throughout the country.

    German authorities, however, are going to great lengths to argue that the German citizenry’s sudden interest in self-defense has nothing whatsoever to do with mass migration into the country, despite ample evidence to the contrary.

    The spike in violent crimes committed by migrants has been corroborated by a leaked confidential police report, which reveals that a record-breaking 38,000 asylum seekers were accused of committing crimes in the country in 2014. Analysts believe this figure — which works out to more than 100 crimes a day — is only a fragment: many crimes are not reported.

    “Anyone who asks for the reasons for the surge in weapons purchases encounters silence.” — Süddeutsche Zeitung


  66. Still relevant after the late Christopher Hitchens wrote this about Islam in 2007, especially with regards to Trump’s call to temporarily halt Muslim immigration into the US.


    The most alarming sentences that I have read in a long time came from the pen of my fellow atheist Sam Harris, author of The End of Faith, at the end of a September Los Angeles Times column upbraiding American liberals for their masochistic attitude toward Islamist totalitarianism. Harris concluded:

    The same failure of liberalism is evident in Western Europe, where the dogma of multiculturalism has left a secular Europe very slow to address the looming problem of religious extremism among its immigrants. The people who speak most sensibly about the threat that Islam poses to Europe are actually fascists. To say that this does not bode well for liberalism is an understatement: It does not bode well for the future of civilization [italics mine].
    As Martin Amis said in the essay that prompted Steyn’s contempt: “What is one to do with thoughts like these?” How does one respond, in other words, when an enemy challenges not just your cherished values but additionally forces you to examine the very assumptions that have heretofore seemed to underpin those values?

    Two things, in my experience, disable many liberals at the onset of this conversation. First, they cannot shake their subliminal identification of the Muslim religion with the wretched of the earth: the black- and brown-skinned denizens of what we once called the “Third World.” You can see this identification in the way that the Palestinians (about 20 percent of whom were Christian until their numbers began to decline) have become an “Islamic” cause and in the amazing ignorance that most leftists display about India, a multiethnic secular democracy under attack from al-Qaida and its surrogates long before the United States was. And you can see it, too, in the stupid neologism “Islamophobia,” which aims to promote criticism of Islam to the gallery of special offenses associated with racism.

    The second liberal disability concerns numbers. Any emphasis on the relative birthrates of Muslim and non-Muslim populations falls on the liberal ear like an echo of eugenics. It also upsets one of the most valued achievements of the liberal consensus: the right if not indeed the duty to limit family size to (at most) two children. It was all very well, from this fatuously self-satisfied perspective, for Paul Ehrlich to warn about the human “population bomb” as a whole, just as it is all very well for some “Green” forces to take a neo-Malthusian attitude toward human reproduction in general. But in the liberal mind, to concentrate on the fertility of any one group is to flirt with Nuremberg laws. The same goes for “racial profiling,” even when it’s directed at the adherents of an often ideological religion rather than an ethnic group. The Islamists, meanwhile, have staked everything on fecundity.

    Mark Steyn believes that demography is destiny, and he makes an immensely convincing case. He stations himself at the intersection of two curves. The downward one is the population of developed Europe and Japan, which has slipped or is slipping below what demographers call “replacement,” rapidly producing a situation where the old will far outnumber the young. The upward curve, or curves, represent the much higher birthrate in the Islamic world and among Muslim immigrants to Western societies.

  67. Sanders: The middle class is disappearing and we need health care for all.

    Hell, I thought Barack, the idol of Bernie and his progs had accomplished both: killed the effing middle class and with Obamacare – the alleged star in Obama’s tarnished crown – provided health care for and for all a good life. WTF Bernie?

    Re: women’s rights. The progressive groups’ hearts bleed for every group – large or minuscule – they perceive to be oppressed- EXCEPT women. Any individual or group – whether because of religious beliefs, cultural norms, or just because they’re mean-ass women haters – who treats women as chattel, second rate, candidates for beheading, to blame for being raped, objects to be covered and swathed in veils, etc. – should be condemned loudly and at length by any group who supports equal and civil rights for all. The absence of same by prog and women’s rights groups reveals them to be the most blatant of hypocrites.

  68. Tony Stark
    December 21, 2015 at 10:54 am

    From what I have heard in my part of CA, one R was fired up about Trump and I have seen 1 Trump bumper sticker.

    Granted, I don’t know many R’s…but outside of CA, R relatives I know, think Trump is a joke. Not sure if they like anyone, and many will vote for Hillary.

  69. Free

    The absence of same by prog and women’s rights groups reveals them to be the most blatant of hypocrites.

    To me the biggest hypocrites are women that set other women to higher standards then they set men. It’s a fact and most intelligent women know it.

  70. Hillary’s big lie about Trump just bolsters the fact that she will lie about even the most inane things!!! People I heard at doctor offices today were just shaking their head at her .. one lady said, well you know “she and Bill are all about lying”

  71. Marco Rubio, the GOP’s Very Own Barack Obama, II

    First term senator? Check. Inexperienced and callow? Ambitious and duplicitous? Haughty and aloof? Check. Marco Rubio is our Obama:

    Marco ­Rubio no doubt wants to sit behind the big desk in the Oval Office. What is not so clear is how hard he is willing to work to get there.
    Republican activists — including many who appreciate Rubio’s formidable political gifts and view him as the party’s best hope for beating Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton — say they are alarmed at his seeming disdain for the day-to-day grind of retail politics. Even some staunch supporters are anxious.

    “Rubio has not put in the face time that he really needs to have, I don’t think,” said Al Phillips, an influential South Carolina pastor who backs Rubio. “I think that’s been somewhat to his detriment.”

    That may be, as some of his allies fret privately, a sign of overconfidence in his own abilities. Or it may be a smart strategic decision that the personal touch is overrated in an era in which celebrity billionaire Donald Trump is leading the field with a campaign that consists largely of mega-rallies, barrages of tweets and television interviews that are literally phoned in.

    Pressing the flesh wasn’t a top priority for Obama either, come to think. But there is one group that Rubio is more than happy to snuggled up to:

    And Rubio is certainly capable of turning on the charm with one key constituency: deep-pocketed donors. He recently secured support from billionaire hedge fund managers Paul Singer and Kenneth Griffin. He’s believed to be the favorite to win over billionaire casino magnate Sheldon Adelson.
    At his town halls, Rubio generally answers no more than a handful of questions. Leaders of grass-roots organizations grumble that it is difficult to entice him to speak at their events. And Rubio has limited interaction with the news media who cover him.

    “Is his campaign a little more superficial than that of other people in his bracket in New Hampshire? I think the answer is yes,” said former New Hampshire Republican Party chairman Fergus Cullen, who is neutral in the race.

    A top party official from a critical swing state who spoke on the condition of anonymity on a topic of increasing sensitivity in GOP circles said that other contenders are becoming familiar faces to voters there. “The big question is, where is Marco Rubio? People have tried to get him to attend stuff, and he just hasn’t,” the state party leader said.

    Sound familiar?

  72. Rubio is a RINO . he’s lazy without a doubt! TOO lazy to even go VOTE and who does that sound like? Mr. Present????

  73. Grandchild No2 on the way……

    Hillary Clinton

    Your dad and I could not be happier for you, Marc, and Charlotte. We’re so excited to meet our second grandchild! -H

  74. pm317

    December 21, 2015 at 11:44 am


    pm317…thank you for posting that article…I find what these mainstream Muslim women are saying to be profoundly important…and admire them for speaking out…

    …this is what I would have expected from the Democrats that I supported for so long, I would have expected them to speak up for the modern muslims and women, and gay and lesbians, and disabled, etc… but instead we get, to use one of Admins favorite terms…we get MUSH…and we get rationalizations and apologies…and defense almost for the indefensible…the Democrats are either liars or in denial…

  75. …for the record…everyone I speak to in Florida is voting for Trump…

    I have some friends here who relocated from LA as I did…who also worked in the Studios and with very educated and creative people in LA…and they have very discretely told me they are also voting from Trump…

    I think alot of people supercede many of the outrages things Trump says because they understand his plans from a big picture perspective and believe he has the best interests of the USA and the middle class at heart…we get him, that blustering loudmouth from Queens, NY side…reminds some of us of loud, sometimes rude, but very wise Italians we know or knew…and I bet many people from all walks in life are having their similiar connection with him…

  76. S, Democrats and liberals are fucked up on this issue. Note that these two will appear on Fox (I think that Asra Nomani has appeared on Fox) but they will never be invited on the liberal channels. Those fuckers boycott women like Ayan Hirsi Ali, when we need more like her and more need to be encouraged to stand up for themselves.

  77. yes, pm317, I believe I have seen both of these women speaking on Fox, and I think it is the second woman you mention that has a new book out…

    they are both so strong and articulate…and courageous…I have been confounded myself as to why Fox features them but the Dems and Liberal press pretend they do not exist…or, more importantly, that their issues and what they are talking about does not exist…

    this is but one example of the things the Dems have evolved into that make me very distrusting of them…as in frauds…not to say the repubs are not…that is why someone with no loyalty or debts to either party is so appealing to me…

  78. yes, pm317…her book is …

    Heretic: Why Islam Needs a Reformation Now
    Mar 24, 2015
    by Ayaan Hirsi Ali


    Apr 1, 2008
    by Ayaan Hirsi Ali

    I would be curious if Hillary has either met either woman or read their books…I never hear her speak out on their behalf…

  79. Brandeis cancelled honorary degree to Ayan Hirsi Ali because they were afraid they would hurt Muslims. Fuck their honorary degree.

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