JFK And The UFO

Hoo-eee, are we giving a gift today to those that want to shut us up. We’re going to talk UFO and somehow tie that high-flying topic into the Obama Birth Certificate. It’s a holiday weekend and time for some weekend madness and music.

UFOs, Unidentified Flying Objects, “flying saucers” have been in the news – the “serious” news – quite a bit lately. The FBI has a relatively new website called “The Vault” in which it is releasing a lot of hitherto hidden to the public documents. The latest documents were released on April 12, 15, and 20, 2011. Here’s a sample of what those FBI UFO document dumps were about:

“A secret memo released online by the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) in its ‘Vault’ has emerged as proof for the famed landing — or crash or capture — of a flying saucer with three dead aliens in Roswell in New Mexico in June 1947.

The memo was published on “The Vault,” a newly launched FBI blog that showcases documents from the Bureau’s past for history buffs to peruse. It was written by Guy Hottel, the special agent in charge of the Washington field office in 1950, and was addressed to the director of the FBI, J. Edgar Hoover. The letter’s content is amazing, as is the rather casual tone in which it’s delivered.

It reads: “Three so-called flying saucers had been recovered in New Mexico. They were described as being circular in shape with raised centers, approximately 50 feet in diameter.”

The report, which is registered on the FBI’s online Vault library, then goes on to describe the 3ft human-like bodies of the aliens among the remains of the UFO landing.

According to the document, each foreign body was dressed in a fine metallic cloth and bandaged in a manner similar to the blackout suits used by speed flyers and test pilots.

The information comes after the Ministry of Defence released thousands of pages of UFO material at the National Archives last month.

Two other sets of photos from the FBI Vault have been published earlier:

Secret memo from FBI Vault on alien landing of 1947 (Published: April 12, 2011)

Fresh set of pictures of UFO alien landing in 1947 from FBI Vault (Published: April 15, 2011)”

Who knew? Maybe Dennis Kucinich has been right about his UFO sighting. We hope Shirley Maclain is wrong that the spacecraft aliens got into the Kuch’s head.



Before you laugh at forlorn Dennis and his ET pals, check out the article on our right side panel that documents Hillary Clinton’s discussions with Dr. Gibbons and Laurence Rockefeller regarding extraterrestrials. [cue spooky Theramin music].



Other recent UFO stories (videos of purported dead aliens) are likely hoaxes crafted by busy pranksters no longer on the Obama payroll.

By far, the story that wins the prize for linking two well discussed conspiracies together is the JFK/UFO story:

“Was JFK killed because of his interest in aliens? Secret memo shows president demanded UFO files 10 days before death

An uncovered letter written by John F Kennedy to the head of the CIA shows that the president demanded to be shown highly confidential documents about UFOs 10 days before his assassination.

The secret memo is one of two letters written by JFK asking for information about the paranormal on November 12 1963, which have been released by the CIA for the first time.”

No, we are not going to discuss the UFO conspiracies or who really killed Jack. Those are questions for otherworldly websites. We are tickled by the “why?” of this story however:

“Author William Lester said the CIA released the documents to him under the Freedom of Information Act after he made a request while researching his new book ‘A Celebration of Freedom: JFK and the New Frontier.’

The president’s interest in UFOs shortly before his death is likely to fuel conspiracy theories about his assassination, according to AOL News.

Alien researchers say the latest documents, released to Mr Lester by the CIA, add weight to the suggestion that the president could have been shot to stop him discovering the truth about UFOs.

In one of the secret documents released under the Freedom of Information Act, JFK writes to the director asking for the UFO files.

In the second memo, sent to the NASA administrator, the president expresses a desire for cooperation with the former Soviet Union on mutual outer space activities.

The previously classified documents were released under the Freedom of Information Act to teacher William Lester as part of research for a new book about JFK.

He said that JFK’s interest in UFOs could have been fuelled by concerns about relations with the former Soviet Union.

‘One of his concerns was that a lot of these UFOs were being seen over the Soviet Union and he was very concerned that the Soviets might misinterpret these UFOs as U.S. aggression, believing that it was some of our technology,’ Mr Lester told AOL News.

‘I think this is one of the reasons why he wanted to get his hands on this information and get it away from the jurisdiction of NASA so he could say to the Soviets, “Look, that’s not us, we’re not doing it, we’re not being provocative. “.’

Whoa, JFK wanted to see source documents because he knew source documents are the best evidence. JFK did not want to read reports or secondhand comments – JFK wanted to see the source documents. What a concept!

JFK could have requested a report or a review or a task force or a commission – but JFK was smart. JFK wanted to be sure that when he told the Soviets something that he was stating facts. JFK had learned from the Bay of Pigs mess that he could not rely on what others told him, he had to see things for himself. JFK knew that all the reports in the world would not answer his questions as well as a good look at the source documents. JFK came from the world that his father inhabited, a world where frauds and liars and scams where not unknown. JFK wanted to see the source documents.

Donald Trump has said that in the world of finance the schemers and scam artists can fold a ten dollar bill and make it appear as a much higher denomination bill. Donald Trump knows that “The Sting” is not a world of make-believe.



JFK wanted to see the source documents. The newly released FBI documents appear to comport well with a previously unearthed document from a decade ago which up to now had no corroboration of its trustworthiness:

“But conspiracy theorists said the documents add interest to a disputed file, nicknamed the ‘burned memo’, which a UFO investigator claims he received in the 1990s.

The document, which has scorch marks, is claimed to have been posted to UFO hunter Timothy Cooper in 1999 by an unknown CIA leak, but has never been verified.

In a note sent with the document, the apparent leaker said he worked for CIA between 1960 and 1974 and pulled the memo from a fire when the agency was burning some of its most sensitive files.

The undated memo contains a reference to ‘Lancer’, which was JFK’s Secret Service code name.

On the first page, the director of Central Intelligence wrote: ‘As you must know, Lancer has made some inquiries regarding our activities, which we cannot allow.

‘Please submit your views no later than October. Your action to this matter is critical to the continuance of the group.’

The current owner of the ‘burned memo’, who bought it from Timothy Cooper in 2001 told AOL News that it shows that when JFK asked questions about UFOs that the CIA ‘bumped him off’.

UFO investigator Robert Wood said he has tested the paper it was printed on, the ink age, watermarks, font types and other markings.

He said: ‘I hired a forensics company to check the age of the ink and check several other things that you can date, using the same techniques you’d use in a court of law.’”

Hoo-eee that polished the foil on our tin hats! Maybe getting source documents is not such a hot idea – it can get you bumped off. Yikes!

Danger aside, our masthead is correct: “Accept No Substitutes”. Get the source document, not second-hand reports. In candidates get the real thing, not flim-flam men like Barack Obama.

Demand the source document. Last week Obama was caught on tape saying nasty things at a private fundraiser (shades of “bitter” and “clinging”). CBS News, because of the editors not the usually good reporter Mark Knoller, released only excerpts. CBS has the entire tape but CBS News wants to protect Obama. CBS refuses to release the source document, in this case a tape recording. CBS has the tape on which Obama calls some government workers lazy “slugs” but CBS News will not release the full tape recording. Release the source document CBS – stop protecting Barack Obama.

It’s a crazy world and it’s hard to tell top from bottom truth from lies. Did you ever think it could be true that a swan fell in love with – a tractor! Sad, crazy, but apparently true. CBS News will release the Swan/Tractor love evidence but continues to protect the flim-flam man from Chicago.



Remember when it was tin-foil hat territory to say that your phone was spying on you?

“WSJ.com Senior Technology Editor Julia Angwin reports Apple’s iPhone and Google’s Android regularly transmit user location data back to those companies, based on data analyzed by The Wall Street Journal.

Apple Inc.’s iPhones and Google Inc.’s Android smartphones regularly transmit their locations back to Apple and Google, respectively, according to data and documents analyzed by The Wall Street Journal—intensifying concerns over privacy and the widening trade in personal data.

Google and Apple are gathering location information as part of their race to build massive databases capable of pinpointing people’s locations via their cellphones. These databases could help them tap the $2.9 billion market for location-based services—expected to rise to $8.3 billion in 2014, according to research firm Gartner Inc.

In the case of Google, according to new research by security analyst Samy Kamkar, an HTC Android phone collected its location every few seconds and transmitted the data to Google at least several times an hour. It also transmitted the name, location and signal strength of any nearby Wi-Fi networks, as well as a unique phone identifier.”

Remember when all you had to worry about from those ugly light bulbs was to dispose of them properly because they contain Mercury? Put on a tin-foil hat next time you read to the light from those things:

“We have to use these damn twisty light bulbs to save the planet, right? Well, what if they aren’t very good for us?

Their report advises that the bulbs should not be left on for extended periods, particularly near someone’s head, as they emit poisonous materials when switched on.

Peter Braun, who carried out the tests at the Berlin’s Alab Laboratory, said: “For such carcinogenic substances it is important they are kept as far away as possible from the human environment.”

The bulbs are already widely used in the UK following EU direction to phase out traditional incandescent lighting by the end of this year.

But the German scientists claimed that several carcinogenic chemicals and toxins were released when the environmentally-friendly compact fluorescent lamps (CFLs) were switched on, including phenol, naphthalene and styrene.

Andreas Kirchner, of the Federation of German Engineers, said: “Electrical smog develops around these lamps.

“I, therefore, use them only very economically. They should not be used in unventilated areas and definitely not in the proximity of the head.

Don’t believe the hype is the lesson from the light bulbs. Don’t believe what you are told – demand the source documentation. Don’t believe a flim-flam man when he emits words about Earth Day but is tripping about on a series of campaign publicity stunts which burn up 53,300 gallons of fuel. Don’t believe that electric car you bought to save the planet, at the behest of legislators, will not get a special tax/fee from those very same legislators.

Remember the assurances that the airport scanners and personnel would not be misused? It turns out one of the “licensed to grope” has an interest in photography:

“A passenger screener at Philadelphia International Airport is facing charges that he distributed more than 100 images of child pornography via Facebook, records show.

Federal agents also allege that Transportation Safety Administration Officer Thomas Gordon Jr. of Philadelphia, who routinely searched airline passengers, uploaded explicit pictures of young girls to an Internet site on which he also posted a photograph of himself in his TSA uniform.

Homeland Security agents arrested the TSA officer March 24, and he is being held without bail.

Although the case was unsealed Thursday, neither the indictment nor the news release mentioned Gordon’s job searching airline passengers for TSA.

The arrest comes as TSA grapples with several other incidents involving screeners, including a YouTube video posted last week by parents angry about the pat-down their 6-year-old daughter received at an airport in New Orleans. TSA officials said the pat-down was proper; the parents said the girl was “groped.”

Smile next time you go through one of those airport scanners.

PolitiFact is one of those Big Media outfits that pretends it is fact checking when it is Obama protecting. The Annenberg outfits that claimed to have examined the Obama birth certificate and declared it genuine lied – they only examined the certificate of live birth. A distinction they fully understand but seek to deceive the American public about.

Donald Trump is absolutely right when he demands to see the source document. If a document as elementary as a birth certificate is so difficult to obtain from Barack Obama, how can apologists like Cenk Uygur expect documentation on any other issue?



Demand the source documents! Isn’t that what Big Media is supposed to do?

Produce the source documents. Stop protecting the UFOUnworthy Flim-flam Obama.



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146 thoughts on “JFK And The UFO

  1. After studying this issue, I have noticed a patterned response by team Obama to this issue. I call it the DIM response. Distract, Intimidate, Marginalize. There is a consistency to how the media is handling this issue, as if they have been given orders from the top (I’m sure they have been). Below is my assessment.

    Distract – When questioned, immediately switch the topic to WHERE he was born, and away from producing the birth certificate or the contents of the birth certificate. Switch the topic to WHERE he was born instead of WHY he hasn’t produced the long form birth certificate. Every article written by the MSM and every interview given by Obama sympathizers goes for this exact strategy. Even Obama himself has used it, by telling Stephanopoulos that he was ‘born in Hawaii’ and he doesn’t have horns (further distraction, using an attempt at humor), after Stephanopoulos brought up Trump. The last form of distraction is the alleged ‘mountain of evidence’ distraction. This incomplete ‘evidence’ consists of a COLB that was only presented on Obama’s own website and DailyKos (neither of which are exactly non-partisan), two newspaper clippings (which are by no means a replacement for an official long form birth certificate and do not speak to the contents of the LFBC), and a Hawaiian administrator’s word that she saw the document (laughable evidence). None of these incomplete forms of evidence speak to the contents of his LFBC or his actual name (likely Barack Hussein Soetoro). Calling the COLB the ‘birth certificate’ is another dishonest distraction that occurs regularly and is enough to fool most people. Distract, distract, distract.

    Intimidate – The pejorative “birther” was invented to intimidate those who demand proof of Obama’s citizenship. Everyone who brings up the issue is labeled as a “birther”. The left regards “birthers” as the dumbest form of humans, and insinuates as much in every report, talk show, message board post, and article that is written. This public relations threat creates significant trepidation in the minds of anyone who considers bringing up the issue. Bringing up the issue will bring on a full out attack from all forms of liberal-controlled media – which is a vast network. This can ruin a career and end a campaign, just from the judgments in the court of public opinion that accompany these emotional attacks on “birthers”. Race is the final form of intimidation being used, as has been seen from Whoopi Goldberg on Trump, and from countless other liberal guests on TV shows. The mere threat of being called a racist is enough to stop most people dead in their tracks from pursuing ANY criticism of Obama, much less this issue. This is pure Chicago politics – smearing an opponent and intimidating them into silence. Intimidate, intimidate, intimidate.

    Marginalize – The Obama sympathizers attempt to marginalize this issue by linking it with the 9-11 ‘truthers’ and labeling this as a conspiracy theory – two concepts that carry very negative associations. They also inject the word “debunked” into the conversation to create the perception of the issue being settled and having no validity. Both of these are psychological attacks, and both are incredibly dishonest. Marginalize, marginalize, marginalize.

    ————–
    What is incredibly obvious, based on the coordinated approach to handling this issue, and the vehement attacks on anyone who dares to bring it up, is that the Obama team is covering something up and wants this issue to die. Watch for these three techniques the next time you read an article on the subject.

  2. I can’t believe I actually agree with Pat Buchanan. If Obama has nothing to hide, why doesn’t he show the documents and be done with it?

  3. Can’t believe I am now agreeing with Pat Buchanen. So what happens if Governor Jindal or one of the other states signs that you can’t be on the state ballot without a geniune birth certificate, not a COLB, but an actual birth certificate with the name of hospital, the parents names, the doctor(s) who were present, the witnesses, etc.

    Jindal has indicated he is signing it, so has the UT governor, and a couple others.

    so, what’s going to happen then? is the WH going to sue?

  4. It seems much more common now for women to write “unknown” under “father” on BCs. The public wouldn’t know who the father was or his nationality – or his criminal record, etc. I wonder how they’ll deal with that if someone like that wants to run for president.

    Or…. maybe we’re dealing with that now….

  5. “Or…. maybe we’re dealing with that now….”

    That really wouldn’t be that big of a deal, would it? People wouldn’t care, considering he’s made it public that she was very young when she had him, etc.
    I don’t get it, I really don’t, its such a simple document, just release it already, its a slap in the face of people who serve in the US military as well, Mccain was questioned, he released it immediately, now we have a fraud Waffles, who refuses to release it.
    I thought he was born in HI, now I’m not sure, why not release something that simple and release all doubt, unless there is something to hide?

  6. Tim, I’m not making the case that this is the big secret. But it’s interesting that he’s made this huge deal about who is father is, when he didn’t even know him….

    My point is that if we finally get the Supreme Court to clearly state what an NBC is, and they say that one of the prerequisites is that an NBC is born of two citizens, it seems like that would preclude anyone whose BC says “unknown” for father. Although, I suppose a really motivated potential candidate could get a paternity test done, assuming they do know who the father is.

  7. lorac
    April 23rd, 2011 at 7:29 pm

    good point, didnt someone here post in the past that there are rumors that Frank Marshall is his father, I don’t believe that one, but at this point, I don’t know what to believe anymore. No one has any clue who this man is. This could all be so easily resolved, yet by choice Waffles is refusing to resolve it.

  8. Oh, I just thought of something. What about all the women who have anonymous sperm donors? I guess if/when they ever rule on what an NBC is, they’ll have to also make rules for all the different scenarios… ie, if your birth father was never known to you and your mother, they couldn’t have had any affect on your loyalties, so would someone with one citizen parent be allowed to be president in that case? But then the women who had had a one night stand with someone whose first name was all they knew would be clamoring that their kid should be able to run for president as well, since they couldn’t have been affected by any un-American loyalties, either. I guess the actual ruling would be more complicated than I had forseen (but I still want them to do it!)

  9. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/04/23/the_unhappy_president_109638.html

    He says the reason he plays so much golf is that it’s the only way he can get away from the “bubble” he’s in.

    None of this is entirely new. The president has always had a gift for self-pity. And blame-shifting. “It’s Bush’s fault” could be the subtitle of his presidency.

    And from the outset, the president has had little patience with critics. Serious critiques are always illegitimate “talking points.” In the summer of ’09 he started insisting that he didn’t want to hear “a lot of talking” from Republicans. The time for debate always seems to be over when it’s clear to everyone that he’s losing the argument. When abroad, he loves to whine about the impertinence of the press.

    I can’t prove it, but I’m also hardly alone (on the right or the left) in thinking the president really just doesn’t like the job anymore. He’s testier. His response to the Republican budget plan was not merely dishonest, hypocritical, and partisan, it was bitterly personal.

    One can understand his frustration. The guy who once said to a reporter during the 2008 campaign, “You know, I actually believe my own bulls***” about fundamentally transforming America, is now forced to run as a reactionary, defending “Medicare as we know it” from “radicals” who – gasp! – want to change America. The overrated and inexperienced politician, accustomed to nothing but adulation, who was swept into office thanks to discontent with the incumbent, is now himself the incumbent desperately trying to explain how he’s done nothing wrong.

    He demonized George W. Bush as an evil fool, but Obama has been forced to adopt many of the very policies he derided as evil and foolish. The “change” candidate is now the “more of the same” guy.

    That’d put anybody in a funk.

    But I don’t care. The presidency is not like his Nobel Prize – an award for just being you. If you hate the job, don’t run.

    Moreover, I don’t think that’s the whole story. Many of his seemingly self-pitying jokes and asides just don’t seem that innocent to me, never mind endearing.

    He may sincerely have wished his awesome job came with a cooler phone (or a Bat Signal perhaps?), and he may honestly feel trapped in a bubble. But he’s also determined to pretend that he is running “against Washington” in 2012. And that is outrageous nonsense for a president who effectively owned the government for two years.

    Already his campaign’s messaging is all about recapturing the feeling of insurgency from the first time around. Finish the mission. Complete the work. Remember the feeling. That’s why he’s running his reelection campaign out of Chicago, as if people won’t notice he’s the incumbent.

    Obama has never run on a record. He’s always run almost literally on a hope and a prayer. Now he must defend what he has done – and what he has failed to do.

    If that makes him cranky, that’s just too bad.

  10. If that makes him cranky, that’s just too bad.

    Poor Obama. Better go back to the links for 5 hours and smoke a pack of cigarettes away from the cameras to relieve your crankiness.

  11. “If that makes him cranky, that’s just too bad.”

    So this is the same jerk who complains he’d rather get up in the morning go to the grocery store and “squeeze some fruit”. I’m sure that is great consolation for military personnel over in Iraq, Afghan. who are under threat of danger, harm, snipers, etc that their CIC rather be washing cars and squeezing fruits.

  12. We all know that Barry hates to work, he doesn’t like being in the ‘bubble’, and he hates to have to fight for any policy unless it benefits HIM.

    Is he only running for another term because he is afraid of what people will say if he quits?

  13. #
    Shadowfax
    April 23rd, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    We all know that Barry hates to work, he doesn’t like being in the ‘bubble’, and he hates to have to fight for any policy unless it benefits HIM.

    Is he only running for another term because he is afraid of what people will say if he quits?
    _________________________

    I agree- he not only hates to work but he hates “thinking” about work. Obama is no problem solver and why he waits for someone else, probably Jarret, giving him the answers.
    _________________

    “Is he only running for another term because he is afraid of what people will say if he quits?”

    I doubt he cares what we think. At this point he knows he has the upper hand and theres nothing we can do about it. He enjoys seeing Americans suffer. As if it’s his very own boot crushing our necks… seeing us lose our homes, paying a huge price for gasoline at the pump, smiling while we enrich his Arab benefactors, food prices up reflecting the cost of fuel for cross country transport.

    Obama couldn’t quit if he wanted to. He must honor the deal that put him in the WH in the first place… He has much more destruction in store for America needing 4 more years to get it done.

  14. http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/04/22/more-polls-more-bad-news-for-obama/

    According to the most recent New York Times/CBS poll, Americans are more pessimistic about the nation’s economic outlook and overall direction than they have been at any time since President Obama’s first two months in office, when the country was still officially ensnared in the Great Recession. The poll “presents stark evidence that the slow, if unsteady, gains in public confidence earlier this year that a recovery was under way are now all but gone.”

    No kidding. The survey shows that the number of Americans who think the economy is getting worse has jumped a staggering 13 percentage points in just one month.

    As for President Obama, disapproval of his handling of the economy is at an all-time high for a New York Times/CBS poll (57 percent), while a similar percentage disapprove of how Mr. Obama is handling the federal budget deficit. And support for Obama’s handling of the military campaign in Libya is collapsing; only 39 percent approve and 45 percent disapprove. (In a CBS poll in March, 50 percent approved and 29 percent disapproved. [snip]

    The other danger for Obama is that the news on the economy has been awful to mediocre for the entire Obama presidency; it’s the “new normal” of the Obama era. That means, I think, that the negative impressions of Obama on the economy will harden sooner than they would if his presidency had some encouraging moments to point to. For the most part it doesn’t.

    Mr. Obama hasn’t run out of time yet — but he has less time than he thinks to reshape the public’s increasingly negative impression of him and his stewardship.

    Right now he’s viewed largely as a failure, often inept and not up to the job, and the American people tend not to grant second terms to presidents they view as failures.

  15. “If I hear task force one more time”
    _______________

    I feel the same way- words, nothing but empty words!

  16. In other words – Obama is ready to golf again:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/22/us-usa-campaign-obama-analysis-idUSTRE73L3S720110422

    Just when it seemed the U.S. economy was turning the corner, back it comes again to haunt President Barack Obama as he begins his 2012 re-election campaign.

    Obama is now facing Americans in a sour mood, as high gasoline prices siphon more money from their pocketbooks and threaten the nation’s fragile recovery.

    Several new polls this week underscore the challenge for Obama and his re-election team and may bolster the hopes of Obama’s potential Republican challengers who are weighing campaigns to unseat him.

    A New York Times-CBS News poll published on Friday said the number of Americans who think the economy is getting worse jumped 13 percentage points in one month, and 70 percent of those polled said the country is on the wrong track.

    “The president is very aware of it and concerned by rising gas prices which have put added pressure on Americans as they deal with an economy that is recovering but is not back to where it needs to be,” said White House spokesman Jay Carney.

    Obama’s own job approval rating is hovering in the mid-40s, hardly a strong show of confidence. A Washington Post-ABC News poll said 57 percent of Americans did not approve of his handling of the U.S. economy and 58 percent did not like his handling of the budget deficit.

    Political experts say a rapid jump in gasoline prices to around $4 a gallon is driving much of the concern along with a jobless rate still well over 8 percent.

    Obama this week ordered the Justice Department to probe whether there is any fraud in the energy markets, but otherwise has said he sees no short-term solution to high gas prices. The country must take steps to wean itself from imported oil, Obama has said. [snip]

    Presidential elections more than anything else usually turn on economic issues, and Obama’s challenge will be to convince Americans the country is on an improving track and that better days lie ahead.

    “What ordinary folks are going through still, even after the economy has started growing again, is something that keeps me up at night, and it’s something that I think about the first thing when I wake up in the morning,” Obama said this week in San Francisco.

  17. Help! I go to various websites and all I see everywhere are these damn Waffles ads everywhere!!

    “2012 Waffles Campaign.
    The fight to keep progress going in 2012 has began. Join us”

    I’m doing my part, I click on it, costing them money, and when it asks me on the page to sign up, I list all the media sources email address as the contact info, I’m doing this one by one,I have a huge list of media emails I saved from 2008.

  18. “is something that keeps me up at night, and it’s something that I think about the first thing when I wake up in the morning,”

    Is he talking about squeezing fruits?

  19. Dane Thorwald
    April 23rd, 2011 at 6:33 pm
    ————————–
    I agree with your analysis. The campaign connived by the White House and implemented by big media is as you describe. It is a program of nuance, evasion and terror.

    I also concur with your conclusion. Where there is this must smoke, you can be dead certain there is fire. Most likely it is the kind of fire which would destroy the myth of Obama, and impeach the waning credibility of big media. So there is a lot at stake here.

    This would be a very effective strategy IF they were using against an establishment Republican. Have you noticed that most establishment Republicans shied away from it, or if they raised it at all folded when they were confronted with evidence which is at best inconclusive.

    The strategy breaks down however when they try to use it against a man like Trump, because he has aligned himself with the American People on this issue, and refuses to be intimidated. And because the American People distrust Obama and deplore the McCarthyism of big media, the longer this goes on the worse for big media and Obama.

    Yes, time is not on the side of Obama or his big media guardians. The fact that Corsi has written a new book which delves into the Obama charade, and that it has moved to the top of the NYT best seller lists, suggests that a tipping point has been reached with the American People and the big media strategy has now become a liability. That being the case, the strategy they have adopted ceases to be an asset and has now become a liability.

    But I believe that the White House and big media are now living in a state of fear. Fear over what will come out of the Trump investigation, fear that the terroristic strategy they have adopted will back fire, and fear that the journalists who have staked their career on the notion that there is no there there may ultimately experience the same fate as Dan Rather.

    Yes, there are many ways their strategy can go wrong, hence they would do well to remember that karma can be a bitch.

  20. “deplore the McCarthyism of big media, the longer this goes on the worse for big media”

    If somehow they convince enough fools to vote for this jerk again in 2012, that will not be the end of it, their entire credibility will be gone for decades. They appear to think this is a 2012 goal, but it is for their future. I actually don’t think they will last another 2 years, and beyond that it will only plummet further.

  21. Help! I go to various websites and all I see everywhere are these damn Waffles ads everywhere!!

    “2012 Waffles Campaign.
    The fight to keep progress going in 2012 has began. Join us”
    ———————-
    They can try. Some people will join in the hope of recapturing the glory and comraderie and success they felt in 2008. But this is not 2008. And many who supported him then now realize that he has done nothing for them–except empty platitudes like “I want everyone to be rich!”

    But in the final analysis the Obama campaign is peddling a product which has been shown to be defective. That is very much the bottom line. The gravaman of their strategy is it would be worse if the Republicans were in charge. That is not a credible defense.

  22. I highly suggest if you have been putting off any major electronic/appliance purchases that you do it now.

  23. I have a twofold question
    How does the NYTimes survive?And why is it held up to such esteem?
    Countless errors, misreporting, flat out fabrications, plagarism and blatent bias.
    Yet it retains the crown as the standard of exceptional journalism?
    How?
    The track record is abysmal but still you are “intelligent” if you subscribe ?
    I fell for it until 2008 bought it everyday until then but I was taught to venerate it.

  24. Tim, the purpose of the “join us” ads is this:

    http://www.politico.com/playbook/

    NEW CROWD CATCHPHRASE at Obama 2012 rallies (first heard this week at Soundstage 30 at Sony Studios in Culver City): “I’m in!” – the campaign’s Facebook tag.

    Obama shills say “join us”, the targets of the shills are supposed to yell back with pride “I’m in.” This is what they are banking on for 2012.

  25. I hate those twisty light bulbs. First of all they don’t fit some lamps, but mainly because they give me headaches and make things the wrong color. As an artist, that sucks.

    Tin foil hat or not, I think they are not good for your eyes and maybe they do give off some weird cancer bugs. 😉

  26. http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2011/04/20/what-if-the-birthers-are-right/

    What if the Birthers are right?

    Inside the political vacuum, the headline story on Drudge was none other than Obama’s birth certificate.  It’s the story that just won’t go away–and it won’t go away until Obama himself releases the long-form document.  But with the coming release on May 17 of Jerome Corsi’s “Where’s the Birth Certificate”continued questions will either be answered or remain inconclusive.  However, no matter what the media says about the issue, people are curious as Corsi’s book hit the Amazon charts hard and fast today.

    While I won’t rehash all of the issues here, I will note, for the record, that the left started the birther issue (and continually attacked McCain) and Obama is also a McCain birther as he co-sponsored the Senate Resolution declaring McCain a natural born citizen–clearly understanding the difference between being a US citizen and being a natural born US citizen and its importance.

    Now that that’s out of the way, I’ve been watching the brouhaha that Donald Trump is causing and he is not backing down–that’s obvious.  But during these interviews, it makes me wonder why the MSM so aggressively attacks anyone who even dares come close to this issue–even now–after they seemingly put it to rest.  What are they afraid of–what might they find?   And was Oprah wrong again?

    Another question that I’d like to float:  Is Obama intentionally withholding his long-form birth certificate to continue to perpetrate the notion that those who question him are crazy giving the  media more ammo against the birthers and the right?  It wouldn’t surprise me, but with Corsi’s evidence that may not be the case.

    Finally, has the MSM, out of its allegiance to the Democrat party, missed the biggest story in the history of this country?  And one thing you can be assured, the left will dissect and fact check Corsi’s book until the pages fall out, but will they be able to defend their position on the record?  What they do with the information in Corsi’s book will probably need an extra large bucket of popcorn with butter because dare I ask this:  What if the Birthers are right?

  27. Henry, I think one reason that can happen is that we are all trained to only pay attention to the tv stations/newspapers that are “on our side”. So we don’t hear the critical information, or on the rare occasions we do, we rationalize it. Now we PUMAs are aware of what BOTH sides are saying, and we know see that the media such as the NYT or NPR aren’t the bastions of truth that we had always thought they were. Like the political parties, they’re all biased and have corruption.

    At least, that’s the way it worked for me.

  28. Shadowfax
    the twisty light bulbs remind me of curly fries from Arby’s
    Maybe that big neon cowboy hat outside is actually sending signals

    By the way I rarely visit fast food as I don’t like it but the new sea salt natural salt cut fries from Wendy’s are delicious.

  29. The following commentary by rick martin which appeared in today’s Wall Street Journal sounds plausible to me–assuming he was born in the United States. Rick argues that even if Obama was born in the United States, he does not satisfy the natural borne citizen requirement of the constitution which is a separate criterion, because of the status of his parents. Rick then alleges that there was in fact a conspiracy here, as well. It was perpetrated by Pelosi, the DNC inter alia. It consisted of the alteration of the state certification form to exclude the pre-existing requirement of natural born. I have included some of the less intemperate counter arguments advanced by bots, so you can see for yourself how deftly Rick deals with them.
    ————————————————–
    rick martin wrote:

    Obama is not a “natural born citizen” – which is a Constitutional requirement, It is not HIS place of birth that causes him to be ineligible for becoming President but the fact that his father was Kenyan- not a US citizen and thus placing restrictions on his mother- who was a US citizen. She does not conform to the necessary 10 years residency + 5 continuous years at the birth. She was 18 and left the US 2 years later for Indonesia to re-marry thus voiding the 5 year statute requirement.

    Additionally there is the issue of the legitimacy of the marriage in Kenya in the eyes of the US govnerment- a marriage certificate was never produced and the fact that Obama – if he was born in the US, left as an infant for Indonesia and traveled to Pakistan in 1981 on an Indonesian passport.

    The real issue is however the father’s Kenyan citizenship, the mom’s age and transfer out of the US within the 5 year required limit.

    Thus even if Obama was born in the US, he still doesn’t qualify as a “natural born US citizen”.

    1 Recommendation
    Link Track Replies to this Comment
    3 hours ago
    mary repar replied:

    Give it up, Ricky. His mother was a citizen and residency is NOT a requirement. Nor is marriage. This is so OLD NEWS. Get over it.

    Recommend
    Link Track Replies to this Comment
    2 hours ago
    rick martin replied:

    Mary, you have no idea what the situation actually is. “Citizen” is not good enough to be President. You need to be a “Natural born citizen” and that has requirements and in 1961, his mother who was 18 did not satisfy them.

    you really need to read and educate yourself.

    2 Recommendations
    Link
    1 hour ago
    Gerry Nance replied:

    Mary,
    Try reading the US Constitution again, maybe a bit slower this time, and take some notes.
    At least read Article 2 Section 3 Clause 5

    Recommend

    3 hours ago
    Carol Ottinger wrote:

    rick martin……get the facts right. Obama’s mother remained in the US until she graduated from college in Hawaii and long after she was divorced Obama’s father. She met her second husband at the University of Hawaii and went to Indoesnia when Obama was 6 years old. Obama was back in the US 2 years later living with his grandparents. The information is all availbable is you’d ever care to educate yourself.

    http://carolo43.newsvine.com/_news/2011/01/04/5765252-obamas-heritage

    Recommend
    Link Track Replies to this Comment
    1 hour ago
    rick martin replied:

    Carol, she needed to remain in the US for 10 consecutive years and 5 of those consecutive years had to be after the age of 14 for Obama to be considered a “Natural born citizen – accepting that he was born in Hawaii. 14 + 5 = 19. She had Obama when she was 18. She didn’t satisfy the requirement.

    Recommend
    Link Track Replies to this Comment

    Recommend
    Link
    1 hour ago
    rick martin replied:

    Obama/Dunham marriage license — Never released

    Recommend
    Link Track Replies to this Comment

    1 hour ago
    rick martin wrote:

    And here is the conspiracy:

    Chair of the DNC Convention and Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, DNC Secretary Alice Travis Germond and Colorado Notary of Public Shalifa A. Williamson knew Barack Hussein Obama was illegal when they certified him legally eligible without meeting constitutional requirements by signing their party signatures upon the Official Certification of Nomination on August 28, 2008.

    The DNC nomination form filed “Official Certification of Nomination” with all the states is absent of all constitutional requirements for the Office of President language.

    The text certifying that Barack Hussein Obama was “constitutional legally qualified to serve under the provisions of the United States Constitution” HAD BEEN REMOVED from the document sent to all the states and delivered to the Election Commission.

    “THIS IS TO CERTIFY that at the National Convention of the Democrat Party of the United States of America, held in Denver, Colorado on August 25 though 28, 2008, the following were duly nominated as candidates of said Party for President and Vice President of the United States respectively and that the following candidates for President and Vice President of the United States are legally qualified to serve under the provisions of the United States Constitution”:= REMOVED!

    They plotted and planned an act of unlawful fraud in a conspiracy to gain political power!

    Obama is a co-signer of Leahy’s resolution on April 10, 2008, and in doing so admitted that one needs two American citizen parents to be eligible for POTUS. Obama knows he is ineligible to be CiC.

    1 Recommendation
    Link

  30. I was following a car out of the community that I live in, and saw an Øbama 2012 bumper sticker prominently displayed mid-center of the hatchback. It was being driven by a middle aged white lady. I could start to feel my blood boil.

  31. admin
    April 23rd, 2011 at 11:57 pm

    Tim, the purpose of the “join us” ads is this:

    http://www.politico.com/playbook/

    NEW CROWD CATCHPHRASE at Obama 2012 rallies (first heard this week at Soundstage 30 at Sony Studios in Culver City): “I’m in!” – the campaign’s Facebook tag.

    —————–
    I’m in! in WHAT?! a hole?

  32. The above is a video interview of the transgender person attacked in the Baltimore County Maryland McDonalds.
    ———————————–
    I looks to me like this is a per se case of a hate crime. The system works well when it is white on black crime, and not so well when it is the other way around. We shall see what how the Baltimore prosecutor charges these two defendants. At some point, defense counsel will seek to plea bargain, because the cell phone evidence is conclusive, and thee are no conceivable defenses other than the usual tripe that they are black, poor and sorry. I am afraid that in the city of Baltimore, which is heavily black, the prosecutor will not want to charge them with a hate crime. However, failure to do so will send the wrong message. The next time these two do this it may well be to a black victim, so leniency on account of race is a cop out. Norm Maleng who prosecuted defendant Gary Ridgeway aka the Green River mass murderer showed leniency. He made a deal with defense counsel that even though Ridgeway murdered dozens of women, he received life imprisonment instead of execution. In return he showed the authorities where he had buried the bodies, which gave some closure to the families.

  33. Pm317, your question and first answer is the stuff of many potential articles.

    “I’m in – a hole.”

    “I’m in love with Obama.”

    “I’m in an insane asylum.”

    “I’m in a Hopium den.”

    “I’m in a rut.”

    “I’m in a deep state of denial.”

    “I’m in a mess.”

    “I’m in a fix.”

    “I’m in debt.”

    “I’m in the unemployment line.”

    “I’m in the band.”

    “I’m in the mood for love.”

    “I’m in a mental hospital.”

    “I’m in the basement.”

  34. “I’m in deep doodoo.”
    “I’m in a dysfunctional relationship.”
    “I’m in a strange, strange place.”
    “I’m in fear for my life.”
    “I’m in withdrawal.”
    “I’m in here with Stupid.”

  35. “Join us”

    “I’m in – capable of falling for your facade”

    “I’m in – transigent in my refusal to your offer to join you”

    “I’m in – sulated from your so-called charms”

    “I’m in – telligent, go eff yourself!”

  36. Chair of the DNC Convention and Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, DNC Secretary Alice Travis Germond and Colorado Notary of Public Shalifa A. Williamson knew Barack Hussein Obama was illegal when they certified him legally eligible without meeting constitutional requirements by signing their party signatures upon the Official Certification of Nomination on August 28, 2008.

    This would be easy enough to verify, just get a copy of these documents. If it is true that they took some of the required wording out of the document, then we know what Nasty and Barry are holding as blackmail over each other.

  37. “I’m in your head rent-free – you don’t need me any closer”

    “I’m into life, not lies”

    “I’m in line to tell these others that they’re fools to join you”

    “I’m in favor of YOU joining US – in the unemployment line”

  38. Shadowfax
    April 24th, 2011 at 2:44 am
    ———————————-
    I wrote this to jbjd about this on NQ:

    1. I want to commend you for the fine work you have done to put all the pieces of this thing together.

    It has been suggested by others (infra) that critical language was deleted from the certification form which confirmed that he was qualified, whereas you maintain otherwise. More specifically:

    You maintain that: ” the Certification of Nomination signed by both Nancy Pelosi qua Chair of the 2008 DNC Convention; and Alice Germond, Secretary of the DNC, stating Obama is their Presidential nominee and EXPLICITLY WRITING HE IS CONSTITUTIONALLY QUALIFIED FOR OFFICE.” (emphasis added)

    whereas–

    rick martin blogging at WSJ (infra) contends:

    “The text certifying that Barack Hussein Obama was “CONSTITUTIONALLY QUALIFIED TO SERVE UNDER THE PROVISIONS OF THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION ” HAD BEEN REMOVED from the (certification) document sent to all the states and delivered to the Election Commission.” (emphasis added).

    Question: are we talking about two different procedures here? Or are the two statements in direct conflict. And if they are in direct conflict can you show me the evidence that the DNC did not remove the critical language?

    2. As long as we are on the subject, jbjd, what is your take on the natural born criterion, as separate and distinct from the requirement of citizenship. I understand there is some constitutional and legislative history on point, but no actual case law. Those who advance that argument, like Rick Martin (infra) are inclined to say that there is a definition enbedded in the governing regulations, and the status of his parents render him ineligible under that prong of the test.

    (Note: If jbjd responds we may get some additional answers here, and then we will know whether THIS is what Obama is hiding, or whether it is something else.)

  39. it’s something that I think about the first thing when I wake up in the morning,”

    ==============

    Stole that line from HIllary.

  40. NEW CROWD CATCHPHRASE at Obama 2012 rallies (first heard this week at Soundstage 30 at Sony Studios in Culver City): “I’m in!” – the campaign’s Facebook tag.

    ====================

    In it to win it?

  41. At some point, defense counsel will seek to plea bargain, because the cell phone evidence is conclusive, and thee are no conceivable defenses other than the usual tripe that they are black, poor and sorry.

    ================

    This would be the video that an employee posted? Good result.

  42. Dane Thorwald
    April 23rd, 2011 at 6:33 pm
    ————————–
    And no propaganda campaign is complete without a battery of phony questions–or FAQs as they are sometimes called. Takethe newspaper announcement eight days after the fact. The delay raises an inference that the newspaper announcement was false, and the sole reason for this was that his mother wanted to claim state benefits. Occams Law.

    Yet Press ignores that likely inference, and instead claims that the only reason why the mother would issue a false announcement was becase she knew way back then that her child would run for president and this could be an obstacle. Is Press that corrupt” In a word, “yes”.

  43. Takethe newspaper announcement eight days after the fact. The delay raises an inference that the newspaper announcement was false, and the sole reason for this was that his mother wanted to claim state benefits. Occams Law.

    ————–

    Lacking data about the timing of other announcements at that period in that/those paper/s, imo Occam might say: “Delays happen. Big deal.”

    If the mother sent a false announcement, why would she give a date that would attract questions? If anything, an odd date would be evidence for lack of calculation, ie for truth.

  44. wbboei
    April 24th, 2011 at 4:24 am

    Dane Thorwald
    April 23rd, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    Yet Press ignores that likely inference, and instead claims that the only reason why the mother would issue a false announcement was becase she knew way back then that her child would run for president and this could be an obstacle. Is Press that corrupt” In a word, “yes”.

    I cannot help feeling that the root of much of the oddities in records or lack thereof are the grandparents needs regarding their employment and having to meet certain social norms that were in place in 1961. They were not wealthy. They had to make a living to support themselves, their daughter and apparently their grandchild. They did not want to be social pariahs for whatever reason. The press does not acknowledge this nor is anyone allowed to mention it. The press saying things like “running for President” when economic and social necessities in 1961 were a much more likely impetus to any number of possible actions.

  45. I saw this comment at one of the right wing blogs, and I am beginning to think that is why the Waffles fraud does not release his long form BC, because essentially his entire life is a LIE.
    I don’t want to post it here, its a very long comment, but it is posted by someone who used to be a former federal employee — a IRS tax examiner and he’s seen this kind of thing with illegals trying to get a new identity.

    The comment is posted at:
    TODD says:
    April 24, 2011 at 1:05 am

    and the link to the thread is:
    http://weaselzippers.us/2011/04/23/obama-getting-back-to-work-next-week-after-attending-6-west-coast-fundraisers-just-kidding-hes-taping-an-episode-of-oprah-then-hitting-2-more-dnc-fundraisers/#comments

  46. haha, I went to bed and what did you do, admin and lorac!

    I was just going for, if ‘I’m in, I’m screwed’.

  47. Obama’s corruption is more corrosive because it stems from laziness and stupidity as much as a Nixonian hunger for power. It’s time to say it without reservation or qualification: Obama is stupid and lazy. How much one character flaw informs the other is open for debate. Certainly the laziness stems from his entitlement issues and arrogance. If those blots could be removed he might, in fact, be smart enough. But we must go on actions to asses his intelligence. Had the brain dead remarks about Manning been made by Sarah Palin the Obama media chorus would be in full screech. Not only was Obama dangerously out of line, he was also just plain wrong….The Constituntional scholar (using ‘scholar’ in this context is, in and of itself, an obscenity.) was incorrect about his own job. The man does not know what he’s doing. He does not understand his job or the law, and shows no ability to learn. I mean none. The proper modifier for a man of Obama’s ilk is “stupid”.

    ….

    He is like “An errand boy sent by grocery clerks to collect a bill”. Civil liberties have changed since Obama took office. You have fewer of them.

    …….

    I almost hope Obama is a C.I.A. created Manchurian Candidate. A plant groomed for decades. He then becomes explicable. Increasingly it’s the only narrative that can possibly make sense. How else do we explain Obama as President? How did he happen? Thinking we the people chose him freely without prompting and manipulation is far scarier to contemplate.

    From http://johnwsmart.wordpress.com/2011/04/23/obama-is-stupid-and-lazy/#more-3151

  48. O.M.G!!!!!!!!!!!
    Please, cpuld the brainiacs and PI’s on the site help translate this? I haven’t had time to read the whole thing – it’s dense as hell – but it tells the tale of Hawaii conspiring to illegally permit BO on the ballot.

    (found in a comment at NQ)

    It supports wbboei’s remarks at 12:48.

    Remember how we were all shocked when BO went back to Hawaii to “visit” his grandma during the campaign and it seemed so odd?

    This story gets to the root of it.

    It is rivetingly complex.

  49. democrat1
    April 24th, 2011 at 8:40 am
    ——————
    I was reading about this on NQ and it was as though he was still angry at the protesters at his fundraiser and wanted to show who was the master. So he opened his big lazy unintelligent mouth (that is what I think). He is not fit for the presidency. Here is the video and the transcript of what he said..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfmtUpd4id0

    OBAMA: So people can have philosophical views [about Bradley Manning] but I can’t conduct diplomacy on an open source [basis]… That’s not how the world works.

    And if you’re in the military… And I have to abide by certain rules of classified information. If I were to release material I weren’t allowed to, I’d be breaking the law.

    We’re a nation of laws! We don’t let individuals make their own decisions about how the laws operate. He broke the law.

    [Q: Didn’t he release evidence of war crimes?]

    OBAMA: What he did was he dumped…

    [Q: Isn’t that just the same thing as what Daniel Ellsberg did?]

    OBAMA: No it wasn’t the same thing. Ellsberg’s material wasn’t classified in the same way.

  50. UPDATE on the WSJ Poll:

    Could Donald Trump win the Republican presidential nomination?

    52.3% say YES…. 47.7% say NO

  51. basil, many of us heard the rumblings of this when it happened. everything is vague and pardon the pun, conspiratorial, right? Much is odd too and not how it would happen with other candidates or other campaigns. This is where the media should have helped us, the citizens. But fuck them, they were co-opted. If they were not, we would at least have a report of the what actually happened, if it really was to see his grandma. Hell, we don’t even know when she really died and whether she was kept ‘alive’ as a pawn for political gain. Fuck the media. Fuck the thug.

  52. “We’re a nation of laws! We don’t let individuals make their own decisions about how the laws operate. He broke the law.”

    WHAT A F*KING JOKE THIS LOSER IS!

    I agree with pm317, the media that was supposed to inform and protect the American public are now part of organization that attacks Americans who want the truth. They are the political enemy as well, my SIL is a huge history reader and she was telling me during the revolitionary war, the British Empire had a unit dedicated to spreading lies and falsehoods to demorialize the American patriots and to misled them. George Washington caught on pretty early, and countered this.

    We now have the same situation, we have those people who want power centralized, protected & that power structure maintained for themselves and their allies, and its their minions in the entire press corp (the corporate press) in the media that will protect them, misinform the american patriots deliberately, viciously attack anyone who will upset that status quo of power.

    Oh yes, they will switch sides dems to repubs, as long as those candidate play within the rules that the power structure has defined, when someone like Palin or Trump come along, don’t want to play by those rules, they are ruthlessly attacked.

    Waffles only survives because of some very powerful people and organization on both sides of the political spectrum that protect him, and they are just as much to blame, if not MORE! We now are coming into a situation similiar to what the colonies 200 yrs ago faced, the american public is ruled, it is not governed anylonger, and more and more people are waking up to figure this out.

  53. ONE MINOR DETAIL . . .

    It is interesting to see just how confident big media and dimocrats are in their public statements about 2012. They say prescient things like, i.e. the Republicans have a weak field, or the economic situation is improving, or demographics is destiny, or the Republicans want to kill widows and orphans, or the public is slugs, bitter clinging racist and other complimentary things which are reasonably calculated to endear them to the electorate.

    Meanwhile establishment Republicans seem to almost concede the point. Instead of raising hell like Trump, they act like timid church mice, make a big thing out of debt and then roll over like frightened children–anything you want Harry Reid only please do not shut down government. Life as we know it would come to an end if we shut down government. They seem to forget that with a nation headed down a suicidal path, either we end life as we know it, or life itself will end. They are supposed to be an opposition party.

    There is only one problem with this otherwise cogent analysis: public poll data–even the smoke and mirrors polling data that big media peddles to the unwary does not support this well orchestrated flight from reality by Beltway elites. So much so in fact, that when I hear the tripe recounted above, and knowing that the Chicago crew and their big media minstrels are all Lincoln men, I am tempted to ask one direct question:

    Other than that, i.e. the polls, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

  54. Waffles only survives because of some very powerful people and organization on both sides of the political spectrum that protect him, and they are just as much to blame, if not MORE!
    ———————–
    Where those traitors are concerned, I want names, ranks and serial numbers and home addresses. Then we can decide after a proper review of the evidence whether the Geneva Rules apply. If not, then gold plated monogrammed water boards for them would seem proper and fitting. And, it would also ensure that the principle of retributive justice was served, i.e. let the punishment fit the crime.

  55. wbboei
    April 24th, 2011 at 9:58 am

    You can add the Rovester to that list of people, Axel-a$$hole of course as well. And Craig ? who stabbed Hillary and Bill

    I am convinced Rove would rather see Waffles reelected rather than a repub, almost independent, like Trump, who cannot be bought off or controlled, elected. I truely hope if Trump is asked next time, Trump needs to openly say, since Rove seems more interested in attacking me than Waffles, maybe Rove needs to go apply and join with the Waffles campaign with David Axel-a$$hole in chicago.

  56. This whole royal wedding thing, is anyone here following this. I wish the couple the best of course, but frankly I really don’t care. I was wondering are others interested?

    I remember watching Diana’s wedding, but this whole Kate and Will thing, I don’t know, I really have no interest at all, don’t care at all one bit about it.
    (The only my nieces and wife are interested in is what the dress looks like, but they have no other interest in it)

  57. This link supplied by Basil, I believe has merit. It contains the prerequisites needed for legitimacy. i.e. names of real individuals involved in the process determining Obama’s eligibility.

    Now the question comes… what is to be done with this information? Are the House Republicans inclined to form an exploratory committee determining if Obama should be impeached?

    Should the new head of the DNC request the Long Form of Obama’s BC… and if that document cannot be produced- he is then deemed ineligible to run for re-election?

    Fast forward: Where does that leave us IF Obama is not forthcoming with the Long Form of his BC? Will Biden step-up.. as the Constitution prescribes as it did with the Nixon resignation? Who will he pick for his VP?

    http://thedailypen.blogspot.com/2011/01/o-con-had-legal-help-from-non-partisan.html

    President Clinton did not fear giving up his presidential immunity when Bob Dole said- “If you’ve done nothing wrong, you have nothing to lose by relinquishing your immunity.”

    Will the faux president volunteer to do likewise?

  58. tim
    April 24th, 2011 at 10:26 am

    This whole royal wedding thing, is anyone here following this. I wish the couple the best of course, but frankly I really don’t care. I was wondering are others interested?
    _____________________________

    I watched the 2hr movie last night recounting Kate and Wills meeting at St Andrews College on the ‘Lifetime’ channel purely for it’s symbolic historical value. Wills
    and Catherine designated as the future King and Queen of Britain.

    An important fact was revealed in the movie. Although, the two playing the key roles were actors; I imagine, the movie script was approved by Wills and Kate for accuracy.

    About half way through the movie, in the bedroom scene, the two of them were discussing the future of the monarchy. The changes they intended making… i.e. accessibility to the people, helping the impoverished, bringing much needed change following in Diana’s footsteps.

    Today,as world news continues the count down to their marriage vows; now, inexplicably, “Charles: is being mentioned as the future King of England… not William…

    Just thought I’d mention this new development for future reference.

  59. Mrs. Smith
    April 24th, 2011 at 10:51 am

    Really? I cannot stand Charles, to me he seems like an arrogant elitist prick.

    But I like William, from what I have read, he seems to have grown into a very mature respectable man.

  60. I watched another one of Trump’s interviews, I will give this man tremedoulous credit, he keeps saying “I will protect the seniors, they are a cherished group in our society.”

    The repubs seem to have no clue that while the dems cut 500 billion from Medicate under WafflesCare, they have been slamming the repubs. Trump seems to get this and fighting this. And Trump explicits said they will attack Ryan for cutting medicare even though they themselves have cut medicare and the media that protects Waffles will not cover this.

    Maybe the Roverster is scared because Trump actually wants to win and turn the country around, not just win for winning sakes. Because if Trump wins, he will go after repubs and dems equally, the man is not doing this for money or power, Trump is in amble quantity of both.

  61. Steve Wynn has always impressed me. He is a world class businessman totally invested in his employees. And his wife is high class as well. His business model revolves around keeping the employees happy because if they are happy his guests will be happy as well, and they will come back. One look at his employee handbook tells you all you need to know about where his heart is.

    I do not know Steve personally so let me be clear on that. But I tried to go to work for him a few years ago, right after he built Wynn Las Vegas. It did not work out. I was told by his lieutenant if I hire you then I will have to retire– and I am not ready to retire. Whether I could have made the grade or not we will never know.

    The post you see here is the real Steve Wynn honest, direct and smooth. He discusses how the standard of living of average Americans is falling as a result of policies like the devaluation of the dollar, and how he tries to make up for it in wage increases generated from profits in China where he is 1/3 invested, and still cannot keep up. Most important he does not mince words–he blames Obama. Watch:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NPz7D5Uc60&feature=player_embedded

  62. “Should the new head of the DNC request the Long Form of Obama’s BC… and if that document cannot be produced- he is then deemed ineligible to run for re-election?”
    __________________

    Oh-oh! The recently appointed head of the DNC just resigned. Says he is pursing other interests… Running for the Senate ? wow- what an after thought…

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/politics/kaine-quits-dnc-enters-va-race-to-succeed-webb/2011/04/05/AFVI0KkC_story.html

    Could be the newbies drawn into this filthy plotting by the DNC, deceiving the American people for their own personal gain, protecting Obama’s real identity… want no part of this evil deception… not when this entire charade is about to blow wide open.

  63. pm317
    April 24th, 2011 at 11:17 am

    How convienent that the only living relative that knew his true identity died just 1 month before the elections.

  64. noobama thank you for posting that video of that young person who was so horribley beatn up, I am happy that the person seem to be resonably ok.

    Will the LSM cover any of this? Hell no. If it was some stereotype of some conservative or right wing person doing this, CNN and that little idiot Soledad O’Brien would be all over it. Since its one minority group attacking another minority group, all is silent by the liberal media.

    This attack should be condemned by everyone, and those girls who did this need to be thrown in jail for a long time and condemned! Of course they won’t be, it doesn’t fit the storyline and bias of the LsM.

  65. #
    tim
    April 24th, 2011 at 11:02 am

    Mrs. Smith
    April 24th, 2011 at 10:51 am

    Really? I cannot stand Charles, to me he seems like an arrogant elitist prick.

    But I like William, from what I have read, he seems to have grown into a very mature respectable man.
    ___________________

    The UK is as complicit with Obama’s ineligibility as the elites who concocted this whole scheme… Queen Liz knows full well. She went along with this plan for a NWO. She also knows, William is his mother’s son. He will not go along just to get along with the evil deception no matter what. It all makes sense now.. the pieces are falling into place all by themselves. When the flood gates open… the LIE will rock the world.

  66. Two things have confused me on the blog recently.

    The first is the discussion that both parents must be US citizens for someone to be a citizen when they are born in the US. Richardson, neither parent was born in the US, but he was born in SD, and he is a full fledge US Citizen. Maybe the conflict is that Hawaii was a territory? The first hand situation I have knowledge of is births in military hospitals overseas. If both parent are US citizens, you get US citizenship, but your official BC is of the nation you were born in. You can apply for recognition that you are entitled to US Citizen, and use this for running for Congress or going to West Point, but you still cannot run for President. Those children who have one parent US and the other Foreign, can have citizenship also, but they must spend a year in the US before their 21s birthday, from what I can understand. Again, they get the citizenship, but cannot run for President.

    However, if O was born on what was consider US soil, he gets it regardless of Parents. But with Hawaii’s status at that point (not a state), the rule could have been different. I might expect the overseas rule of one or both parents would then apply, if he was born in a territory or over seas. Thus he is not eligible to run for the President.

    Had this all been brought out, a ruling could have been made then, and he might have still been allowed to run. But to me the point is they do not respect this country enough to follow the constitution, and change the rule if necessary. They worked on his career a long time, and should have had enough time to do it right. Instead, they prefer to lie to the American people and treat us as though he does not work for us, and we are not entitled to this information.

    The second is, does he still not have a grandmother alive somewhere? When I read some blogs, it sounds like there is no one left what about the grandmother who said she was at his birth out of the country, who now has changed her story. Is she not still alive?

  67. We are living in a country where people no longer feel they have to follow the constitution or the laws. Lohan obviously thinks she is above the law. Why not, fame and fortune seem to exempt you from following the rules that others have to live by. O, obviously does not work for us, or he would be showing his long form BC, have signed documents always available, and state, lets sit down and do a program on this. I will offer up my docments for authenticity. The real telling clue here is that people who state he is legal, will not sign any document stating so. They only state so. If you certify something, you an go to jail, if you have lied.

    Has anyone, to include the fact check people ever submited in writing they have SEEN the long form document and had it authenticated. I do not see one, no Gov, no Vital Records Clerk, no Fact Check people. They also, all of them protest too much, but show no facts.

    All you have to do is what Palin said, is offer it up, and let someone validate it.

    There is another confusing item on the blog about this. I thought the newspaper announcement was like a list of births from the hospitals. However, I see it being discussed by Trump and on this blog that it was a birth announcement made by his grandparents. I don’t understand which is the actual fact. If someone knows, please tell me.

  68. NMF:

    There is a difference between citizen and native born citizen and natural born citizen.

    Any body can be a citizen whether they are born here or abroad. The persons born abroad to US citizen parents are automatically US citizens. The persons who lived here as permanent residents for 5 years (3 years if they are married to US citizens) can opt to become citizens.

    Native born citizens are those born on US soil whether they are born to US citizens or not or even if their parents are illegally here.

    Natural born citizens are those born on US soil or abroad in US Military Hospitals or other possessions to two US citizen parents. Only these are eligible to be POTUS. The idea being that POTUS should owe allegiance to one country that is USA. For reasons unknown to us, SCOTUS is refusing to hear arguments on Fraud’s ineligibility on these grounds. I think they are part of the conspiracy to install ineligible Zero as our president.
    I hope this clarifies the matter to you

  69. Discussion at No Quarter:

    wbboei
    As long as we are on the subject, jbjd, what is your take on the natural born criterion, as separate and distinct from the requirement of citizenship. I understand there is some constitutional and legislative history on point, but no actual case law. Those who advance that argument, like Rick Martin (infra) are inclined to say that there is a definition enbedded in the governing regulations, and the status of his parents render him ineligible under that prong of the test.
    Yesterday, 23:48:34 – Like – Reply – Delete
    Liked byoowawa

    jbjd
    The Drafters of the Constitution relegated the interpretation of their language to the SCOTUS. Until SCOTUS rules on a case on point, effectively we have no legal definition of NBC. No matter how many times people stamp their feet and insist otherwise. BTW, the same people who insist we should adopt what they claim is Vattel’s definition of NBC, because the Founders read Vattel; remained silent when I posted an article pointing out, Vatel also wrote that, countries should adopt national religions and people who disagree should move; and obviously, the Founders and Drafters rejected that.

  70. wbboei
    jbjd,I want to commend you for the fine work you have done to put all the pieces of this thing together.

    It has been suggested by others (infra) that critical language was deleted from the certification form which confirmed that he was qualified, whereas you maintain otherwise. More specifically:

    You maintain that: ” the Certification of Nomination signed by both Nancy Pelosi qua Chair of the 2008 DNC Convention; and Alice Germond, Secretary of the DNC, stating Obama is their Presidential nominee and EXPLICITLY WRITING HE IS CONSTITUTIONALLY QUALIFIED FOR OFFICE.” (emphasis added)

    whereas–

    rick martin blogging at WSJ (infra) contends:

    “The text certifying that Barack Hussein Obama was “CONSTITUTIONALLY QUALIFIED TO SERVE UNDER THE PROVISIONS OF THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION ” HAD BEEN REMOVED from the (certification) document sent to all the states and delivered to the Election Commission.”

    Question: are we talking about two different procedures here? Or are the two statements in direct conflict. And if they are in direct conflict can you show me the evidence that the DNC did not remove the critical language?

    jbjd
    wbboei, this is all the natural outgrowth of the original theft of my work. I presented the Certifications only so as to point out, language in the Certifications was determined by state law. Of course, logically, one could argue that, it would be easier to write each state’s Certification with language sufficiently comprehensive to encompass the laws of all states. And, logically, since only the Certifications from HI and SC require the specific language about Constitutional eligibility – as far as we know – it would make more sense that 48 Certifications did not contain such language and for just those 2 states, the language had to be put in and not taken out. But SC’s eligibility language for all the D candidates was submitted before the primary, because in SC, the party submits the names for the primary ballot. So, the specific language was not added into Nancy Pelosi’s Certification.

  71. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704547604576263261679848814.html?mod=WSJ_hp_mostpop_read

    This article is for all the gadget geeks who leave tons of footprint on the Internet and elsewhere. It is fascinating research and can do tremendous good used judiciously and responsibly (and with accountability from a collective conscience entity such as a well functioning govt), but where will it lead? who will harness it? for what purpose? Orwell is alive and well when things go wrong.

  72. Democratic1 @12:0

    I agree with everything except the last paragraph. I have personnel knowledge of a person born in German on a US base, Amer. The parents were told that the child had US citizenship. The only legal BC was the German, and Germany had dual citizenship at the time. The Embassy issued a decorative certificate. The family was told to upon their return to the US to have the childs paper work process through the immigration office, and a document issued showing that child was born to US parents living overseas. They said that child would then be eligible to attend West Point and run for Congress, but not for the the Presidency. I know the constituion probably only says natual born. Has this ever been clarified by law or judges. At the time, in Germany, our laws were followed on the base, but in Italy the Italian laws were followed on base. This had to do with the treaties signed when the war was over. However, it looks to me like you could call in German the bases American soil, while in italy, you could not.

    So I continue to wonder that we talk about this, but what the case law is, if there is any.

  73. Yesterday, I posted comments which appeared at wsj suggesting that the smoking gun surrounding the birth certificate issue was not where he was born, the identity of his father etc, but the legal status of his parents–his father being a British subject, his mother being a US citizen but a minor in terms of the governing law, and finally the suspicion that the certification document had been altered.

    After reviewing the comments by jbjd posted above however, I am persuaded that this is not the smoking gun suggested. Ergo, the explanation his refusal to produce the best evidence, i.e. the long form birth certificate, the expenditure of spending millions in legal fees to hide same, and the McCarthy tactics practiced by big media over this issue, i.e. ridicule, fear and intimidation must lie elsewhere.

    The alternative possibilities remain the place of his birth (despite the proffered secondary evidence, i.e. hospital announcements eight days later–probably to secure welfare benefits, and the certificate of live birth which is devoid of relevant details and obtainable based on hearsay evidence), the identity of his father, or some other smoking gun which either debunks the Obama myth connived in Dreams of My Father, or shows that he is ineligible to hold office for some other reason. You an be sure that he knows and so does Perkins Coie.

  74. wbb

    ———————————-
    I wrote this to jbjd about this on NQ:…

    ———-
    I remember jbjd from another blog, isn’t she also an attorney?
    Do you know if the documents in question are locked up in some magical O’vault, or are they public record some where?
    What does jbjd do to research this, do ya know?

  75. I am getting the feeling that there is no case law, and NBC is something that has not clearly been defined. If so, then they decided to just throw some stuff out there, silence the world using the media, and peoply like Joy who have no IQ to discuss the matter.

    The only ones that appear to know anything are Admin and wbboei. They ran him, knowing this was not defined, and now they are trying to silence everyone by insisting, bullying, using the media, and any tool available. In a democracy, you go for a clarification of the law. People who bully only want to force their opinions on you, without bothering to go for a legal opinion (I guess they thought they did not have to). No wonder our schools are filled with bullies. It obviously has worked at the very highest levels of this government, and unfortuantely we sat around and watched, all except for Donald Trump. He is like the child who says that the emperor has not clothes. “Shuss be quiet little boy, what are yo saying”. However Trump is not a little boy, and he knows exactly what he is saying, he is calling for the question as they say, and pressing the issue. You would think the courts would be jumping at the bit to decide this one, especially after O chastised them in public.

  76. FYI- The SCOTUS does NOT want to venture into the NBC issue. From all the research I’ve done, it is made abundantly clear from their many documented refusals to take cases with alternate variables for a clear concise simple answer.

    The Founders deliberately left the candidate’s eligibility for the presidency in this article of the Constitution vague.

    Google is your friend and quite a treasure trove of information that will have you reading for months on end. One answer to the eligibility question does not fit all because of the whys and the wherefores.

  77. “It obviously has worked at the very highest levels of this government, and unfortuantely we sat around and watched, all except for Donald Trump. He is like the child who says that the emperor has not clothes. “
    __________________

    Not true, New Mexico Fan.

    We, who voiced our opinions.. asking for Obama’s Birth Certificate have paid a heavy price for that question. We have been ridiculed, ostracized and banned from several forums because we were brave enough to speak the Truth.. I have repeated it numerous times on this forum..admin can attest to that.

    Selective post reading does have it’s pitfalls.

  78. I remember jbjd from another blog, isn’t she also an attorney?
    Do you know if the documents in question are locked up in some magical O’vault, or are they public record some where?
    What does jbjd do to research this, do ya know?
    ———————-
    I think she is a very thorough lawyer who has really delved into this. She has a website. I have not seen it myself. She responded to me on NQ, where I just posted the excellent comment by Dane Thorwald about the coodinated attacks on those who try to bring truth and clarity to the issue. You might ask her that question, but first read what she has said to date.

  79. Shadowfax
    April 24th, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    I believe the teasers coming out of late are for the run up to Dr Corsi’s newest book “Wheres the Birth Certificate” due for release on May 17th heavily promoted by Trump. Also suggest reading his previous book “ObamaNation”… available at Amazon.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=a9_sc_1?rh=i%3Astripbooks%2Ck%3Awheres+the+birth+certificate&keywords=wheres+the+birth+certificate&ie=UTF8&qid=1303665895#/ref=sr_nr_p_n_date_2?rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Awheres+the+birth+certificate%2Cp_n_date%3A1250228011&bbn=283155&keywords=wheres+the+birth+certificate&ie=UTF8&qid=1303665903&rnid=1250225011

  80. I also found Dane Thorwald’s comments excellent. Ever since Øbama has been introduced as a candidate for the presidency, there has been a common tactic used to silence and denigrate any opposition to him. Dane’s comment explained this perfectly.

  81. This was from Øbama on Thursday:

    Attending a National Prayer Breakfast on Thursday, Obama said his faith has deepened during his two years in the White House and he urged members of Congress to rely on their own faith to build a spirit of civility in Washington. He said that at a time of bitter partisanship, lawmakers must find a way to be open to the ideas of others, while staying true to their core principles.

    “I pray that God will show me and all of us the limits of our understanding and open our ears and our hearts to our brothers and sisters with different points of view, that such reminders of our shared hopes and our shared dreams and our shared limitations as children of God will reveal a way forward that we can travel together,” the president said.

    I don’t believe God will answer anybody’s prayers if that person does not believe in Him. Therefore, I take these types of comments from Øbama with a grain of salt.

  82. This was from Øbama on Thursday:

    Attending a National Prayer Breakfast on Thursday, Obama said his faith has deepened during his two years in the White House and he urged members of Congress to rely on their own faith to build a spirit of civility in Washington. He said that at a time of bitter partisanship, lawmakers must find a way to be open to the ideas of others, while staying true to their core principles.

    “I pray that God will show me and all of us the limits of our understanding and open our ears and our hearts to our brothers and sisters with different points of view, that such reminders of our shared hopes and our shared dreams and our shared limitations as children of God will reveal a way forward that we can travel together,” the president said.

    I don’t believe God will answer anybody’s prayers if that person does not believe in Him. Therefore, I take these types of comments from Øbama with a grain of salt.

  83. Well,

    Thanks everyone for clarification of the site I posted at 8:46 but I’m afraid everything is still clear as mud (to me). wbboei, I did see jbjd’s response but I didn’t understand it.

    Is she saying there is no validity to claims that Hawaii changed its required documentation especially for BO?”

    Or is she saying the state had the right to present documents with different wording?

    I do love attorneys but I wish they would speak in language us non-lawyers can comprehend.

    Of course I am particularly inept when it comes to translating legalese.

    One other thing, was she saying these issues had already been uncovered and debunked several years ago? I confess, I couldn’t figure out what she meant. I will go back and read, now.

  84. Oh-oh! The recently appointed head of the DNC just resigned. Says he is pursing other interests… Running for the Senate ? wow- what an after thought…

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/politics/kaine-quits-dnc-enters-va-race-to-succeed-webb/2011/04/05/AFVI0KkC_story.html
    ********************
    I thought the recently appointed head of the DNC was Debbie Wasserman Schultz with Donna Brazile the interim head to protect the party secrets.

    And Charles has always been the presumed next King of England, William was never named (that was wishful thinking on the part of those who dislike Charles).

  85. This is long but I think some of you would appreciate it.

    It’s jbjd’s responde (at NQ) to the link from 8:46 a.m.

    It sounds like she’s saying there is no there there with this issue.

    BINKY, the differences in Certifications are strictly dependent on state election laws. Both HI and SC (and probably more states) require specific wording in their Certifications. Justin Riggs obtained the HI Certification in the fall of 2008. (He was collecting state documents.) I saw it on his blog and contacted him because I noticed the language. Then, we worked together to obtain clarification from HI election officials as to the missing ‘date received’ stamp, etc. (That is, since he had already established a ‘working relationship’ with the election official, I told him what to write and he sent the email.) That’s how I know how both the Certification from the DNC and Schatz’s cover letter arrived at the election office. That is, the DNC document went to Schatz, along with their cover letter; and Schatz forwarded this to the election office, along with his cover letter. Anyway, it makes no difference whether the Certification contains specific language of eligibility or, just says “duly nominated.” Because DNC rules (DNC Call) require the nominee to be Constitutionally qualified for the job.

    In other words, I had the Certifications by January 2009 but, they meant nothing insofar as the specific language; rather, they were evidence either with or without the specific language that, people had sworn Obama was eligible but refused to disclose the documentary basis for ascertaining eligibility, when we asked. (I also helped Justin write a letter to Ms. Pelosi asking her, which was hand-delivered to her office on the Hill.)

    All of this information, with screen caps and links, appears on my blog.
    Today, 2:12:33 AM

    [This user is an administrator] jbjd
    This is garbage which has been infesting the blogosphere for too long, promulgated by people obviously too invested in having spawned this tripe to ever correct their exposed travesties.

    In short, in 2006, rules promulgated by the DNC R&B Committee for state delegate selection plans shifted to the DNC the responsibility for satisfying the legal requirements of the several states, to get the name of the Presidential nominee on the ballot. As part of this shift, states submitting delegate selection plans to be approved by the RBC also had to include as an addendum to that plan, a list of all state laws with respect to the ballot. (This would include laws from those states requiring specific wording in the Certification that the nominee is Constitutionally qualified for the job, etc.) In 2008 Brian Schatz, then Chair of the HI D Party, provided HI state election officials with the requisite paperwork to get Obama’s name on the state ballot, forwarding the Certification of Nomination signed by both Nancy Pelosi qua Chair of the 2008 DNC Convention; and Alice Germond, Secretary of the DNC, stating Obama is their Presidential nominee and explicitly writing he is Constitutionally qualified for office; along with his (Schatz’s) cover letter.

    The people repeating this trash about HI failed to raise similar objections to the Certifications in SC, which also had specific language as to Constitutional eligibility. Why? Because when they first stole my work and began publishing this false information; I hadn’t yet discovered SC’s ballot law. When I did, about a week after I first published that HI was the only state with such ballot Certification language, I updated my blog. But the thieves could not correct their misinformation without giving themselves away.

    And they haven’t corrected their mistakes in the more than 1 1/2 years since.

  86. I saw this link at one of the blogs, this conservative? site took down the Rovester for going after Donald Trump, it is an excellent piece, my fav part is below, the entire article is very well written.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “You know what I think, Mr. Rove?

    I think you are a subversive and a power monger. You are a liar, sir, a man who long ago sold his soul for self-interest, and who is capable of and will do anything to retain and maintain his access and influence inside the stink that is Washington, DC. You wallow in puffed up hubris when the talking heads refer to you as “The Architect”.

    You’ve had a good run, and you’re not about to relinquish it come hell, high water, or violation of the Constitution and the faith Americans have in your integrity. You’re seeing players coming out of left field who threaten your political fiefdom, and you lie and deceive to protect it.

    You sir, are disgusting. You are the epitome of everything that is wrong in our nation. You are trying to save the one-party system, a front line foot soldier trying to stop the bleeding.

    Your credibility is gone, Mr. Rove, along with that of many of your friends in the entrenched GOP establishment. We the people are getting wise, and we want real change. Not the crap you’re selling.

    Whether or not it is too late to pry you and your ilk out of the halls of Congress, along with the high priced lobbyists you consort with and the propagandist media you crawl into bed with, remains to be seen.

    But we’re in there pitching, Mr. Rove, and if we need to use a carnival barker like Donald Trump to call you out, we’re all for it. We say, “Bring it”.

    We have a communist in the White House who has installed his Marxist-Communist helpers, and you have the audacity to smack down Trump when he points it out with clarity? You are a weak, mewling creature. Oh you’ll show bravado when you take on the truth tellers, but when it comes to those who are destroying our country, where is your voice? Where is your influence? Where is your power?”

    http://radiopatriot.wordpress.com/2011/04/23/just-one-question-mr-rove/

  87. and the end is very good as well from the article at the link above:

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “Your words are nothing more than flatulence.

    Your days in the halls of power are coming to an end Mr. Rove, and you fear that more than any communist usurper in the White House. It’s why you and Krauthammer and the other “beltway boys” are in overdrive to destroy Trump for his efforts to unearth the awful, horrible truth. Hell, you and the rest of the entrenched GOP establishment are scared to death we’ll discover your complicity in burying the dead bodies.

    We the people are wising up to you. Unlike 2008, we will NOT buy into who YOU say is a suitable “candidate” for 2012. Au contraire. We will tell YOU. You can take your Mannequin Mitt, and Tepid T-Paw, and whoever else Krauthammer has handicapped on his race card, and tuck them up your lily white fannies.

    Your bellicose and desperate blatherings bring to mind William F. Buckley’s non sequitor:

    “I won’t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.””

  88. You have to admit that -true or not – this is a d@mn good story.

    LAP DOGS & BLOOD HOUNDS

    Obama’s presence in Hawaii in October, 2008 ignited suspicions which seemed to resonate among several high profile media sources. On the October 23 broadcast of his radio show, Rush Limbaugh said:

    “Who announces days in advance they’re rushing to the side of aloved one who is deathly ill, but keeps campaigning in a race that’s said to beover, only to go to the loved one’s side days later? See, I think this is about something else. You know what’s really percolating out there? And I’ve beenlaying low on this because it just — it hasn’t met the threshold to pass thesmell test on this program. But this birth certificate business, this lawsuitthat a guy named Phillip Berg filed in Philadelphia in August for Obama toproduce his genuine birth certificate, and he still hasn’t replied, he hasn’tdone so.

    When you first announced this, you’re gonna rush, you’re gonna hurry, you’re gonna make tracks, you’re gonna get over there because you don’t want your grandmother to die before you got there like your mother did, but somehow you keep campaigning, you take three days to get over there, if he’s left yet. And this birth certificate business — I’m just wondering if something’s up. I have no clue, and I — folks, I’m telling you, this has not reached the threshold until now, and it’s now popping up all over the place.”

    Mr. Limbaugh’s premonitions are well oriented. He just didn’t quite follow his instincts about the true motives for Obama’s behavior and explicitly say the words…which was exploit the condition of this grandmother for political reasons while also giving the sentimental public appearance of being a family-oriented man who cared for his sick grandmother.
    During an appearance on the October 22, 2008 broadcast of G. Gordon Liddy’s radio show, WND reporter and author, Jerome Corsi said:

    “I’m headed out to Honolulu. I am not convinced that Barack Obamais going because his grandmother is sick. I appreciate that his grandmother is sick and he wants to be with her. I do recall that Barack Obama’s mother died of cancer, and he didn’t go to be by her side when she died. He relates that in his autobiography, Dreams From My Father. And I’m going out to do what digging I can on the birth certificate.

    I think I’ll accomplish something in Hawaii, too. Obama’s headed out there, and I believe there’s a court challenge that if Obama does not dodge, he’s gonna be forced to produce a birth certificate, and there’s gonna be something damaging on that birth certificate, because even at the eleventh hour, Obama refuses to show us the hospital-generated birth certificate when he was born.”.

    The implications are magnetic and compelling. The lasciviousness of the scheme makes it heart-wrenching. While the last living member of Obama’s extended family clings to her final moments…or perhaps had already passed prior to Obama’s arrival, the political scavengers and the ideologically afoul, having confiscated Obama’s existence, were actually exploiting her pain and death for their political gain. Projecting a final thought in those moments in that woman’s apartment, we gain understanding of the contemptible scene…

    “If Obama waited too long to go to Hawaii, the old-bag might kick the bucket early and leave Obama with no “personal” reason to hide under. A premature death would prevent Obama from protecting his political image while he proliferated more lies about the unresolved facts of his epic illegitimacy. This would leave him exposed just 11 days before the most prolific, fraudulent Presidential election in history, and force him to answer for the actual reasons he was called to Hawaii, which was to rebut claims by the Democrat Party’s state authority that he was, simply, an inferior candidate without legal qualifications…or, worse, if he went to Hawaii too early, before the wise medical doctors had a chance to deliver their scripted testimony of a media-approved “looming death decree” — worthy of Obama’s doting presence — there would have been no way to hide the reasons for another trip there, yet again, in coming weeks, when the political deadlines demanding his presence finally arrived.”.
    .
    “Never let a crisis go to waste”, right? The entire affair is despicable and should impose shame on those involved, including everyone in Obama’s family, his administration, the media, the State of Hawaii, and the Democrat Party…and, unfortunately, the American people for not violently protesting such disgraceful conduct. Is there any wonder why there is no decency in government today?
    .
    In summary, Obama sought a way to be in Hawaii at a time that would:

    1. Occur as long after the OCON deadline as possible, but no later than October 24th.

    2. Allow him to cancel campaign events, but not miss prescheduled debates with McCain or televised town hall meetings.
    3. Meet legal deadlines for ballot approval, but not violate deadlines to refute the findings of ineligibility by the DPH.

    4. Give the media a “decoy” story to serve as his excuse for being in Hawaii, but not allow the public to discover that the real reason he was in Hawaii was because he was attending executive hearings with the Chief Elections Officer and the DPH per HAR 3-170, HRS 92-4 and 92-5 to contest the DPH’s refusal to certify his nomination.

    5. Exploit the story of Obama’s grandmother’s illness, allowing Obama to schedule the trip precisely while citing the doctor’s assessment of his grandmother’s condition as an excuse to be in Hawaii. However, if Dunham died too soon, or was “not sick enough” to warrant his cancellation of campaign events so close to an election, Obama would be left exposed to media investigation about the truth of all of his activities in Hawaii on October 24th, 2008.

    On October 23rd, 2008, even the ultra-liberal New York Times took notice of Obama’s sheepish trip off the grid:
    “On a whirlwind trip back to Hawaii, Senator Barack Obama spent more than an hour visiting his ailing grandmother late Thursday and is set to return to her bedside on Friday morning after arriving here on a nine-hour flight from the Midwestern battleground of the presidential campaign.

    On the trip to Hawaii, Obama stayed in the secluded front cabin of his campaign plane, reading and rarely talking with a handful of aides who came along. The knot in his red tie was loosened as he walked down the aisle of his plane to stretch his legs, but he stayed a safe distance from a small group of reporters who accompanied him…

    “…It was an unusual departure from the tug-of-war of the presidential campaign, with 11 days remaining in the race. While Mr. Obama is only going to be gone for one full day – Friday – it still is an unusual occurrence at this point in a presidential campaign.”

    “It’s not optimal, but there was never any debate or discussion or
    anything,” David Axelrod, the chief strategist for Mr. Obama said in an
    interview Thursday. “Barack’s grandmother is one of the formative people in his
    life. He wants to go see her on the advice of her doctors. He had to do it now.
    So we’ll just make do.” http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/25/us/politics/25obama.html?_r=1&ref=politics

    On October 25th, Star Advertiser reporter, Laurie Au gave this peculiar first hand account of Obama’s evasive behavior.

    The only exciting part of the day (Friday October 24th, 2008) occurred shortly after 10 a.m., when his campaign aides told us Obama would be taking a walk along Young Street in his old Makiki neighborhood. Apparently there was some confusion, though, because by the time we reached Young Street, Obama was already two blocks away, forcing about a dozen of us — media and staff — to chase after him. We stopped a respectful distance away, but he still appeared down and slightly unhappy to see us.

    Our day ended just after 5 p.m. when Obama and more than 60 other staff and media boarded his private plane to Nevada for more campaigning.
    http://blogs.starbulletin.com/inpolitics/inside-obamas-press-bus/

    Au’s account of Obama’s schedule on the morning of October 24th obviously
    indicates that Obama was able to slip out of his grandmother’s apartment without
    being noticed by the media. Thereafter, there is no accounting of presence
    before or after this “solo stroll” until his appearance at the airport. Au then
    reports that the next accounting of Obama’s presence was when he boarded his
    plane seven hours later at 5:00 p.m. So, the obvious question arising from the
    media’s fallow account is where was Obama between 10:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. on
    Friday, October 24th?

    You have to hand it to the Obama political syndicate. They squirrelled this one to a tee. It’s sad that it was so evil, sheepish and dishonest. Obama was able to pull an epic deception off on the American people, and most of them bought the entire story without any hesitation.

    Members of the mainstream network media, on the other hand, have a special wrath stored up for themselves over this one. They were simply played like the fawning tools they have been ever since Obama tickled their fetish six years ago. This proves that today’s journalists are a disgrace to their profession. They are not even journalists. They are nothing more than adoring propagandists for the Obama administration. Its disgusting, and they deserve to have this grand lie summarily forced down their gullet, suffering from all the infirmities as it putrifies inside them. They were used so efficiently by Obama it is laughable.

  89. You have to admit that -true or not – this is a d@mn good story.

    LAP DOGS & BLOOD HOUNDS

    Obama’s presence in Hawaii in October, 2008 ignited suspicions which seemed to resonate among several high profile media sources. On the October 23 broadcast of his radio show, Rush Limbaugh said:
    “Who announces days in advance they’re rushing to the side of aloved one who is deathly ill, but keeps campaigning in a race that’s said to beover, only to go to the loved one’s side days later? See, I think this is about something else. You know what’s really percolating out there? And I’ve beenlaying low on this because it just — it hasn’t met the threshold to pass thesmell test on this program. But this birth certificate business, this lawsuitthat a guy named Phillip Berg filed in Philadelphia in August for Obama toproduce his genuine birth certificate, and he still hasn’t replied, he hasn’tdone so.
    When you first announced this, you’re gonna rush, you’re gonna hurry, you’re gonna make tracks, you’re gonna get over there because you don’t want your grandmother to die before you got there like your mother did, but somehow you keep campaigning, you take three days to get over there, if he’s left yet. And this birth certificate business — I’m just wondering if something’s up. I have no clue, and I — folks, I’m telling you, this has not reached the threshold until now, and it’s now popping up all over the place.”
    Mr. Limbaugh’s premonitions are well oriented. He just didn’t quite follow his instincts about the true motives for Obama’s behavior and explicitly say the words…which was exploit the condition of this grandmother for political reasons while also giving the sentimental public appearance of being a family-oriented man who cared for his sick grandmother.
    During an appearance on the October 22, 2008 broadcast of G. Gordon Liddy’s radio show, WND reporter and author, Jerome Corsi said:
    “I’m headed out to Honolulu. I am not convinced that Barack Obamais going because his grandmother is sick. I appreciate that his grandmother is sick and he wants to be with her. I do recall that Barack Obama’s mother died of cancer, and he didn’t go to be by her side when she died. He relates that in his autobiography, Dreams From My Father. And I’m going out to do what digging I can on the birth certificate.

    I think I’ll accomplish something in Hawaii, too. Obama’s headed out there, and I believe there’s a court challenge that if Obama does not dodge, he’s gonna be forced to produce a birth certificate, and there’s gonna be something damaging on that birth certificate, because even at the eleventh hour, Obama refuses to show us the hospital-generated birth certificate when he was born.”.

    The implications are magnetic and compelling. The lasciviousness of the scheme makes it heart-wrenching. While the last living member of Obama’s extended family clings to her final moments…or perhaps had already passed prior to Obama’s arrival, the political scavengers and the ideologically afoul, having confiscated Obama’s existence, were actually exploiting her pain and death for their political gain. Projecting a final thought in those moments in that woman’s apartment, we gain understanding of the contemptible scene…
    “If Obama waited too long to go to Hawaii, the old-bag might kick the bucket early and leave Obama with no “personal” reason to hide under. A premature death would prevent Obama from protecting his political image while he proliferated more lies about the unresolved facts of his epic illegitimacy. This would leave him exposed just 11 days before the most prolific, fraudulent Presidential election in history, and force him to answer for the actual reasons he was called to Hawaii, which was to rebut claims by the Democrat Party’s state authority that he was, simply, an inferior candidate without legal qualifications…or, worse, if he went to Hawaii too early, before the wise medical doctors had a chance to deliver their scripted testimony of a media-approved “looming death decree” — worthy of Obama’s doting presence — there would have been no way to hide the reasons for another trip there, yet again, in coming weeks, when the political deadlines demanding his presence finally arrived.”.
    .
    “Never let a crisis go to waste”, right? The entire affair is despicable and should impose shame on those involved, including everyone in Obama’s family, his administration, the media, the State of Hawaii, and the Democrat Party…and, unfortunately, the American people for not violently protesting such disgraceful conduct. Is there any wonder why there is no decency in government today?
    .
    In summary, Obama sought a way to be in Hawaii at a time that would:

    1. Occur as long after the OCON deadline as possible, but no later than October 24th.

    2. Allow him to cancel campaign events, but not miss prescheduled debates with McCain or televised town hall meetings.
    3. Meet legal deadlines for ballot approval, but not violate deadlines to refute the findings of ineligibility by the DPH.

    4. Give the media a “decoy” story to serve as his excuse for being in Hawaii, but not allow the public to discover that the real reason he was in Hawaii was because he was attending executive hearings with the Chief Elections Officer and the DPH per HAR 3-170, HRS 92-4 and 92-5 to contest the DPH’s refusal to certify his nomination.

    5. Exploit the story of Obama’s grandmother’s illness, allowing Obama to schedule the trip precisely while citing the doctor’s assessment of his grandmother’s condition as an excuse to be in Hawaii. However, if Dunham died too soon, or was “not sick enough” to warrant his cancellation of campaign events so close to an election, Obama would be left exposed to media investigation about the truth of all of his activities in Hawaii on October 24th, 2008.

    On October 23rd, 2008, even the ultra-liberal New York Times took notice of Obama’s sheepish trip off the grid:
    “On a whirlwind trip back to Hawaii, Senator Barack Obama spent more than an hour visiting his ailing grandmother late Thursday and is set to return to her bedside on Friday morning after arriving here on a nine-hour flight from the Midwestern battleground of the presidential campaign.
    On the trip to Hawaii, Obama stayed in the secluded front cabin of his campaign plane, reading and rarely talking with a handful of aides who came along. The knot in his red tie was loosened as he walked down the aisle of his plane to stretch his legs, but he stayed a safe distance from a small group of reporters who accompanied him…
    “…It was an unusual departure from the tug-of-war of the presidential campaign, with 11 days remaining in the race. While Mr. Obama is only going to be gone for one full day – Friday – it still is an unusual occurrence at this point in a presidential campaign.”
    “It’s not optimal, but there was never any debate or discussion or
    anything,” David Axelrod, the chief strategist for Mr. Obama said in an
    interview Thursday. “Barack’s grandmother is one of the formative people in his
    life. He wants to go see her on the advice of her doctors. He had to do it now.
    So we’ll just make do.”
    On October 25th, Star Advertiser reporter, Laurie Au gave this peculiar first hand account of Obama’s evasive behavior.
    The only exciting part of the day (Friday October 24th, 2008) occurred shortly after 10 a.m., when his campaign aides told us Obama would be taking a walk along Young Street in his old Makiki neighborhood. Apparently there was some confusion, though, because by the time we reached Young Street, Obama was already two blocks away, forcing about a dozen of us — media and staff — to chase after him. We stopped a respectful distance away, but he still appeared down and slightly unhappy to see us.

    Our day ended just after 5 p.m. when Obama and more than 60 other staff and media boarded his private plane to Nevada for more campaigning.

    Au’s account of Obama’s schedule on the morning of October 24th obviously
    indicates that Obama was able to slip out of his grandmother’s apartment without
    being noticed by the media. Thereafter, there is no accounting of presence
    before or after this “solo stroll” until his appearance at the airport. Au then
    reports that the next accounting of Obama’s presence was when he boarded his
    plane seven hours later at 5:00 p.m. So, the obvious question arising from the
    media’s fallow account is where was Obama between 10:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. on
    Friday, October 24th?
    You have to hand it to the Obama political syndicate. They squirrelled this one to a tee. It’s sad that it was so evil, sheepish and dishonest. Obama was able to pull an epic deception off on the American people, and most of them bought the entire story without any hesitation.

    Members of the mainstream network media, on the other hand, have a special wrath stored up for themselves over this one. They were simply played like the fawning tools they have been ever since Obama tickled their fetish six years ago. This proves that today’s journalists are a disgrace to their profession. They are not even journalists. They are nothing more than adoring propagandists for the Obama administration. Its disgusting, and they deserve to have this grand lie summarily forced down their gullet, suffering from all the infirmities as it putrifies inside them. They were used so efficiently by Obama it is laughable.

  90. I am convinced Rove would rather see Waffles reelected rather than a repub, almost independent, like Trump, who cannot be bought off or controlled, elected.

    ==================

    I tend to agree. And i suspect other GOP insiders share this attitude, wiht various motives.

  91. oh my Lord, the fact that they are even threatening this out in the open, means we as a country are screwed if we do not straighten up soon, very soon. Most of the times these proposals are a signal to the West of what will happen if Bernanke keeps up his QE, quantitative easing, money printing and devaluing the US dollar. This is a threat from the Chinease.

    “China proposes cutting two thirds of USD holdings”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/china-proposes-cut-two-thirds-its-3-trillion-usd-holdings

  92. -the-greatest-killer-of-the-u-s-budget-deficit-is-a-roaring-beautiful-economy

    ===================

    Didn’t Hillary say someothing like that in 2008? She was talking about Soc Sec and whether the Congress could pay back the IOUs they owe SS.

  93. another billionaire rich idiot, votes, campaigns for Waffles, and now is complaining about him. You can STFU Zuckerman, you voted, campaigned for this fool, people who will never have 1/100 of the money you have have a million times more sense then you ever will.

    And come 2012, I won’t be holding my breath as you again breathlessly vote and campaign for Waffles.

    http://video.foxbusiness.com/#/v/4657080/mort-zuckerman-on-obamas-effort-to-tax-the-wealthy/?playlist_id=87247

  94. Say what you will about Obama, he is definitely royalty. He has all the trappings of an elitist, and when he was a (younger) child, he was heard to describe himself as King Obama. I do not think he meant Martin Luther. I think he meant Louie XVI which helps to explain his marriage to Michelle and why she tells us with all the gusto of Kathie Lee how marvelous her marriage is–eat your heat out girls.

    Obama is most definitely a monarchist–but a king he is not. I think he is some kind of a Lord–Lord of the flies perhaps. The biggest ones, horseflies and deerflies are the scions of big media. They are noisy as hell, they bite, and they have been known to spread swamp fever. And the reason these big media pests are attracted to him is because they have an insatiable appetite for bullshit, and he is a vast repository of that particular commodity.

  95. Mrs. Smith. I understand that people on this blog and other blogs did everything that they could to bring the facts out and stimulate action. However, it was dropped. My questions is, why did the Egyption blogging result in a revolution, and our blogging resulted in the issue being dropped, and the people who could have forced the issue and have really stopped the election failed to act. Both parties failed to act, as there were people in the Democratic party who wanted to know. The courts failed to act, which I just don’t understand, as they are suppose to be apolitical. I was not blaming anyone on the blog.

    But it is hard to understand that blogging and tweeting actions in Egypt resulted in stepping down of a dictator, and our blogging and tweeting were buried, and we were called stupid birthers.

    We needed just one brave powerful person to stand up, and no one did. Now TRUMP, because he says he love this country, is standing up, and he is being abused for it. However, he is not backing down. One has to wonder if he is powerful enough to get the information on this issued that the blogging community asked for before the Primary and the General election. If he does, then we know that we were the grass roots of that effort, and someone finally stood up. WE WILL NOT BE SILENT.

  96. tim
    April 24th, 2011 at 2:39 pm
    ———————
    Tim, forgive me for saying so, but I am not so sure about that. I would have thought his argument would resonate with you since as I understand it you are a small businessman yourself, and are to that extent adversely affected by Obama’s policies–just as he is on a larger scale. His sense of the priorities, i.e. building jobs vs health care, which was less a matter of protecting the public and more a matter of garnering campaign contributions is correct, what I have been saying, and more important what Hillary told him when she returned to the senate and realized his priorities were wrong–and would lead precisely to where we are today. Wynn admits that he voted for Obama and concedes that was a mistake. And he has paid for that mistake by becoming one of Obama’s severest critics. I believe his testimony is incisive and powerful for that reason.

  97. wbboei
    April 24th, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    Nothing to forgive, oh yes, his message resonates with me as a small biz owner, the difference is I (as did PUMAs) recognized Waffles for the fraud he is when Hillary was pushed out. People like Zuckerman, Steve Wynn, both dems, loyally voted for a democrat, Waffles, while PUMAs voted for the lesser of the bad, with McPalin, a very hard thing considering these were loyal dems voting for a repub.

    What irrates me is that these billionaires couldn’t see a fraud when they see one, makes me wonder how they got that rich if they couldn’t even recognize such a blatant fraud.
    I agree with your assessment that he may be one of Waffles’s severest critics & it holds more weight as he voted and donated to him, like Zuckerman, this ONLY happens if and only if they do not bend and then support this fool again, and I expect them to, I do.
    I fully expect by the time November 2012, they will both be voting, donating to Waffles, and think no one has heard them flip flop 3 times in the last 4 years.

  98. Tim: I see what I said above was unintellible. Here is what I meant to say:

    Tim, forgive me for saying so, but I am not so sure about that. I would have thought his argument would resonate with you since as I understand it you are a small businessman yourself, and are to that extent adversely affected by Obama’s policies–just as he is on a larger scale. Many of us realized at the time that Obama’s priorities were dangerously misplaced. By putting health care ahead of jobs, he paved the way for the debacle we see today. And whatever Bush may have done to bury us in debt, Obama failed to heed the Law of Holes which says when you are in one stop digging. But for Obama this was never a matter of what was best for the country. Rather, his purpose was to steal republican contributors in preparation for 2012. Hillary warned him of this when she returned to the Senate and heard what he had in mind. She told him we cannot afford it, and he went ballistic. And now those who bought the hopium are living with the effects, and so are millions of innocents. As for Wynn, he freely admits that he voted for Obama and concedes that was a mistake. And he has paid for that mistake since them by becoming one of Obama’s severest critics in the business community. I believe his testimony is incisive and powerful for that reason.

  99. What irrates me is that these billionaires couldn’t see a fraud
    ———————–
    It is Easter, and you have given me one more reason to say AMEN.

  100. wbboei
    April 24th, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    You make good points.

    lol, yes, unfortunately I don’t have faith in any of these people, I fully expect them to back Waffles by next year. If Waffles is relected, I have been thinking a lot about this, and discussing this with many other smaller biz owners I know who have come to the same conclusion. You will many of them, including me, just sell the biz, just hang it up, there is no point fighting for growing a business when the country is being “led” by an incompetent fool who has no idea or willingness to help the economy.
    There will be just no point anymore.

  101. NewMexicoFan

    “My questions is, why did the Egyption blogging result in a revolution, and our blogging resulted in the issue being dropped, and the people who could have forced …”

    Because the revolution in Egypt was staged. How many of those unemployed who have no food have a computer and internet access. We have been fed a compelling story and created ind implemented through social networking to suit the narrative.

  102. henry @ 4:27

    So what does that say about our society. I feel like a lot of people here have been “fed a compelling story” about O which “implemented through social networking to suit the narrative” also.

  103. If I use your logic, which I can agree with, Egypt used the people, and the US ignored the people. So that makes us odd be fellows to be sure.

    But I still don’t understand why leaders, who actually supported the birthers issue could not have used their power to call for the question so to speak. I guess the answer is, they all wanted to be re-elected (good argument for term congressional positions). However, do we not have people who are retired, who had the power to do this. After all, they don’t have to worry about their careers. I guess they are worried about their speaker fees, and how many people will buy their books.

    Perhaps another question is, Why did Trump not pressure for this before the Primary? Because he really did not realize how inexperienced O was. Certainly he looked at his resume. I am not really blaming him, but I have to wonder in the so called greatest Democracy in the world, why he got to office without this issuue being settled.

  104. On the subject of the Royal wedding, though Will seems like a lovely young man and an asset to the monarchy, I find the costly wedding spectacle somewhat appalling. Think how much good the money being spent could do elsewhere. I kind of feel sorry for people who will pack like sardines and stand around, lining the streets for a glimpse of “royalty”. They are just people….lucky, attractive people…but just people. I really abhor the whole bowing before others thing and am surprised that so many Brits are fine with it.

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