Ream Of Rivals

Such joy! Hillary Clinton constantly in the news.

Such joy! Bill Clinton constantly in the news.

Hillary and Bill Clinton constantly in the news is a buzz-kill for those high on Hopium. For us, it’s ambrosia.

* * *

What are the latest developments in the Hopium buzz-kill story, otherwise known as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton?

The Huffers and Puffers, the Farkers and gafters are all staring at each other in bewilderment, buggin’, because Obama thinks Hillary Clinton is the change we need. Well, at least Obama is saying he thinks Hillary is the Change We Need – the distinction being what Obama says and what Obama does. What Obama says versus what Obama does (hey, don’t forget FISA, or Alice Palmer).

Once off the Hopium, the realization strikes that Obama cannot be trusted by friend nor foe. He simply can’t be trusted.

Here’s today’s news in the wonderful world of Hillary:

It’s not a done deal, Hillary just might return the Obama snubs in kind:

Hillary Rodham Clinton isn’t certain she would accept the Secretary of State post even if Barack Obama offers it to her, several people close to the former first lady say.

Press reports that portray Clinton as willing to accept the job – once the Obama transition team vets Bill Clinton’s philanthropic and business ventures – are inaccurate, one Clinton insider told Politico.

“A lot of the speculation and reporting is out ahead of the facts here,” said the person, who requested anonymity. “She is still weighing this, independent of President Clinton’s work.”

Clinton, the person said, remains deeply “torn” between the possibility of serving in Obama’s cabinet and remaining in the Senate to “help pass health care and work on a broad range of domestic issues.”

Stay in the Senate Hillary and fight for healthcare. Fight Barack Obama’s 15 Million Lies. Fight for genuine and true UNIVERSAL health care, not the mess Obama proposes. Hillary, remember what Paul Krugman wrote about Obama’s destructive health care plan:

I recently castigated Mr. Obama for adopting right-wing talking points about a Social Security “crisis.” Now he’s echoing right-wing talking points on health care.

What seems to have happened is that Mr. Obama’s caution, his reluctance to stake out a clearly partisan position, led him to propose a relatively weak, incomplete health care plan. Although he declared, in his speech announcing the plan, that “my plan begins by covering every American,” it didn’t — and he shied away from doing what was necessary to make his claim true.

Now, in the effort to defend his plan’s weakness, he’s attacking his Democratic opponents from the right — and in so doing giving aid and comfort to the enemies of reform.

We need you in the Senate Hillary, to fight for universal health care. As a go-to voice in the health care debate you will be able to derail Obama’s destructive health care plans which give aid and comfort to the enemies of reform no matter what your formal title may be (one reason Obama fears you and wants you out of the Senate where you are only answerable to citizens of New York State).

Ted Kennedy, added to today’s Hillary-centric news:

Senator Edward Kennedy named fellow Democrat Hillary Clinton to lead a working group on insurance coverage in the effort to write health-care legislation.

Kennedy, chairman of the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions, said in an e-mailed statement today that Clinton will head one of three groups developing ideas for health system changes. Senator Tom Harkin of Iowa will lead a group on prevention and public health, and Senator Barbara Mikulski of Maryland will work on improvements in medical quality.

It will be interesting to see if Ted Kennedy remains part of the Obama cabal of Dean/Brazile/Pelosi or if he is stabbed in the back by Obama on universal health care – an issue Ted has long advocated. Why Ted chose today to name Hillary to a working group on health care is a mystery possibly solved by invoking the names Kerry and/or Richardson.

On the “we must help Obama succeed” front, Chris Matthews was caught not napping but rather, snorting Hopium:

Matthews, who once opined that men who supported Clinton were “castratos in the eunuch chorus,” forgot the cardinal rule for those who are often mentioned on Page Six – he didn’t take a good look around on the Acela train from Philadelphia to Washington Saturday before he started bad-mouthing the New York senator.

An avowed Clinton lover who was sitting next to Matthews reports: “He was in business class wearing a red baseball hat that said Penn on the back, and the fat [bleep] fell asleep on the train and snored with his mouth open.”

During the ride to DC, Matthews awoke from his nap. A fellow passenger asked him, “What’s the news tomorrow?” – to which Matthews loudly started talking about President-elect Barack Obama possibly picking Hillary as his secretary of state.

“I don’t understand it,” Matthews bellowed. “Why would he pick her? I thought we were done with the Clintons. She’ll just use it to build her power base. It’s Machiavellian. And then we’ll have Bill Clinton, too. I thought Obama didn’t want drama. He’s already got [chief of staff Rahm] Emanuel and [transition team leader John] Podesta. He’ll have even more drama with her.

She’s just a soap opera. If he doesn’t pick her, everyone will say she’s been dissed again, we’ll have to live through that again.”

“I though we were done with the Clintons” moans Chris Matthews. Poor Chris, a lot of Hopium eaters are groaning the same thing. For us it’s ambrosia.

Here’s Chris and “I am not obsessed” Hitchens, obsessing last night:

If there is a strong case for Hillary as Secretary of State it is to watch Hitchens and Matthews and Kerry and Richardson combust in rage after hearing such an announcement.

The Guardian last night said it was a done deal. Bill Clinton and all his good works is being set up as the fall guy by the Hopium pushers from Chicago. Bill is reported to be supportive of Hillary joining him in his world travels as Secretary of State.

Bill is happy but Chris is not and the Hopium addicts are getting “bummed out”.

Barack Obama’s serious flirtation with his one-time rival, Hillary Clinton, over the post of secretary of State has been welcomed by everyone from Henry Kissinger to Bill Clinton as an effective, grand gesture by the president-elect.

It’s not playing quite as well, however, in some precincts of Obamaland. From his supporters on the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, to campaign aides of the soon-to-be commander-in-chief, there’s a sense of ambivalence about giving a top political plum to a woman they spent 18 months hammering as the compromised standard-bearer of an era that deserves to be forgotten.

“These are people who believe in this stuff more than Barack himself does,” said a Democrat close to Obama’s campaign. “These guys didn’t put together a campaign in order to turn the government over to the Clintons.”

Poor creatures. Only now are they realizing that Obama needs a lifeline called Hillary.

Only today, on the anniversary of the Jim Jones Cult of Death suicides, do the Hopium eaters shake slightly awake.

Obama trashed Hillary (and Bill) during the primaries, but that was just talk. For Obama, talk is cheap.

An overlooked theme in Obama’s primary victory was his belief that the Clinton legacy was not, as the Clintons imagined, a pure political positive. The Obama campaign had no compunctions about poking holes in that legacy and even sent out mailings stressing the downside of the last “8 years of the Clintons” – enraging the former president in particular. [snip]

“The other question is the old rule – never hire somebody you can’t fire. What happens if her views and his views don’t mesh?”

“The silver lining, for those of us who are skeptical, is that it drastically limits the number of other Clinton administration alums that he can appoint, and that’s a blessing,” Kuttner said.

Robert Kuttner, a Clinton hater, said Hillary’s appointment would block more Clinton alums even as yet another Clinton alum (Eric Holder) was rumored to be the next Attorney General (this was a job poor Johnny Edwards had his eye on).

The poor Hopium addled are confused, wandering the streets, bumping into walls:

“During the campaign there was a lot of agreement and correspondence about how the grassroots felt about the Clintons and how the Obama leadership felt,” he said. “There’s a bit of a divergence now. They’re confused that the guy they elected . . . because we need to go in a different direction on the world stage” might choose a secretary of state with whom he had some of his sharpest foreign policy disagreements during the primary campaign.

It’s great to have Hillary in the news. Still, Obama cannot be trusted by friend nor foe.

It is possible that the entire alleged Secretary of State offer was a complete feint by untrustworthy Obama. We’ve discussed the pros and cons of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and still think – Obama cannot be trusted. As we have written previously, Obama wants to squeeze the life from his rivals, remove the threat posed by his rivals – to ream his rivals.

We’ll support ready on Day 1 Hillary whatever her decision is on this matter. But we do think Hillary should remain answerable only to the people of New York State as a U.S. Senator.

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118 thoughts on “Ream Of Rivals

  1. Admin: Once again, superb work. You have such a way with words.

    I particularly enjoyed:

    “If there is a strong case for Hillary as Secretary of State it is to watch Hitchens and Matthews and Kerry and Richardson combust in rage after hearing such an announcement. ”

    I would love to see, their heads explode.

    I also enjoyed this line: “The poor Hopium addled are confused, wandering the streets, bumping into walls” LOL.

    “It’s great to have Hillary in the news. Still, Obama cannot be trusted by friend nor foe. ”

    This is also true. I’m sure what to think. I can see pros and cons on both sides.

  2. Well, It is amazing how he is throwing the people who betrayed HRC under the bus.

    I also am upset with Boston Legal’s last night episode in which a McCain voter lost her job and was fired because she voted for McCain. She was a Hillary supporter who moved to McCain/Palin, and they depicted her as an idiot. Too bad they do not know who the real idiots are..

    Another show I will not watch again.

  3. The extreme left-wing’s dislike of the Clintons really leaves me scratching my head. Were the peace and prosperity of the ’90s really that bad?????

  4. Paula Says:
    November 18th, 2008 at 7:44 pm

    The extreme left-wing’s dislike of the Clintons really leaves me scratching my head. Were the peace and prosperity of the ’90s really that bad?????

    Exactly. And with a boob in the White House, I’m not confident that there will be any prosperity or peace within the next four years. 2012 is not a done deal for Obama.

  5. As I mentioned in my post in the last thread, this announcement by Kennedy is just a ruse as well…he gave Hillary the co/tri chair on health care only because Hillary is being considered for the SoS…

    If Hill stays in the senate, she may not get the full backing needed for health care…

  6. I will be hated for saying this BUT I cannot wait for Kennedy to be no longer in the senate….you know what I mean???

  7. mp Says:

    November 18th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
    I will be hated for saying this BUT I cannot wait for Kennedy to be no longer in the senate….you know what I mean???

    —————————————————————————————–

    His manipulative behavior is tiresome. He blocked a lot of Carter’s legislation, and seems to be hampering Senator Clinton. But, there are many forces at work, not just Kennedy’s.

  8. I wonder when Obama came to the realization that the 90’s were not so bad. I remember him saying during the primaries that we need change and not a re-hash of the policies of the 90’s. His white House is going to look like a Clinton Administration class reunion.

    I said before Hillary should not leave the Senate and it is beginning to look like all this SOS talk is just a ruse on Obama’s part. All these news leaks about Bill’s donors being a problem for Hillary is just their way of saying we wanted Hillary, but Bill’s connections would be a conflict of interest.

  9. If there is a strong case for Hillary as Secretary of State it is to watch Hitchens and Matthews and Kerry and Richardson combust in rage after hearing such an announcement.

    🙂 I agree with birdgal about this statement. 🙂

  10. Admin: its been awhile since I told you that you do brilliant work. Four days is too long so I will say it again about this article. Brilliant work.

    As for the media this is a come to Jesus moment. Because all the time they were shilling for him and lying for him and whoring for him, they assumed he was be their puppet and they would guide whatever he did. Well . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    They forgot one little thing:

    Obama cannot be trusted.

  11. Admin I admire your grasp of politics and your skills in keeping us informed and inspired.Great job for our country and the revelations that a clear and present danger is about to be crowned as the 44 CIC.You make me want to be part of this patriotic group for as long as time allows me. At times I think I know who you are as I recall words and phrases in your comments but I will never share them with others.I can dream can’t I.? To me you are a real hero.

    By ABM90 Hillary please be careful.The new Commander in Thief and his Barbarians have prepared a mine field for you.Beware of those who come forward bearing gifts.He cannot be trusted in anything he does and says.

  12. If there is a strong case for Hillary as Secretary of State it is to watch Hitchens and Matthews and Kerry and Richardson combust in rage after hearing such an announcement.
    —————————————
    Thank you birdgal. I was conflicted until you provided that perspective.

    Q: What did Christopher Hitchens do to make him worth listening to besides doing bad imitations of Richard Burton? If he is an example of lawful immigratration, perhaps we should be less concerned about the other kind.

  13. A Wrinkle in the Obama-Clinton Negotiations
    November 18, 2008 9:03 PM

    Behind the scenes of the Obama Transition Team’s vetting of the finances of former President Bill Clinton in order for Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, to be named Secretary of State, a complication has emerged.

    Sources say the complication is not what Bill Clinton is willing to disclose in terms of the people who have donated to his presidential library or his charitable organizations; those names are being provided to the Obama Transition Team, led by John Podesta, who was also Bill Clinton’s White House chief of staff.

    What seems more potentially problematic is not revealing what’s happened in the past — but what the Obama Team wants to do about the future.

    The view from Camp Clinton is that the Obama Team would too severely restrict what Bill Clinton is able to do to simply make a living. One source says the Obama Team seems to think it can demand that the former president abide by the restrictions put on a general government official, which just isn’t tenable.

    There has even been talk of the Obama White House wanting to approve every speech the former President Gives gives, or any new source of income.

    And while the former President’s team says he’s willing to disclose that information ahead of time, they aren’t willing to submit each speech opportunity for approval.

    George H.W. Bush had no similar restrictions when he son was President, Clinton advocates say. Why would Bill Clinton have to stop doing what former presidents do — traveling the world, giving speeches, raising money for charitable works — when his wife is a mere Cabinet official?

    The view is that this is the portfolio of a former President; to eliminate it — especially when Hillary Clinton still has more than $6 million in debt from her campaign — is unreasonable.

    There has been some pushback from the Clinton Team on some of the restrictions they feel are way too severe.

    None of which is to say the Obama-Clinton folks won’t be able to come to some sort of agreement. Just that it’s a bit complicated as of right now.

    The Obama folks would not comment.

    Ambinder reported on this tonight as well HERE.

    – jpt

  14. note: I believe Kennedy has given the health care component of UHC that will be the most difficult and challenging….almost like a dare to see it fail!!!!

    I am sorry but I have come to realise that this Kennedy is vicious…he did not not care an iota on BO’s friend Ayers “respect for Sirhan Sirhan”…Bobby Kennedy’s assasin…..

    And I also believe he wants Caroline to be senator from MA not NY…he most definitely DOES NOT WANT Bobby Jr to get any seat from NY that would compete with his son’s from RI..

  15. This dance of the seven veils between hillary and the pretender is not what big media wanted to be reporting on now. They wanted to be out doing coronation activities and leading the parade.

  16. Notice Bill’s donors aren’t even an issue anymore. BTW, having John Poedsta as BO’s transition chief should reassure us; he was not one of turncoats who stabbed the Clintons in the back. He’s a good guy.

  17. www1.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-11-18/the-barrier-that-didnrsquot-fall/1/

    The Barrier That Didn’t Fall (excerpt)

    An exclusive Daily Beast poll reveals the depth of women’s anger in the aftermath of Hillary Clinton’s and Sarah Palin’s campaigns.

    American women overwhelmingly believe they are being treated unfairly in the press, in the workplace, in politics, and in the armed forces, according to a poll by The Daily Beast of 1,000 U.S. voters. The poll comes on the heels of the first-ever presidential election with two high profile women candidates who ran but did not win.

    The poll’s key findings include:

    * By an overwhelming 61% to 19% margin, women believe there is a gender bias in the media.

    * 4 in 10 men freely admit sexist attitudes towards a female president. 39% of men say that a male is “naturally more suited” to carrying out the duties of the office

    * Only 20% of women are willing to use the word “feminist” about themselves. Only 17% of all voters said they would welcome their daughters using that label.

    * 48% of women thought Hillary Clinton received fair media treatment and only 29% believed Sarah Palin was treated fairly. In contrast, nearly 8 in 10 voters thought the press gave fair treatment to Barack Obama and Joe Biden.

    * More than two-thirds of women said they were being treated unfairly in the workplace (68%)

    The race appears to have crystallized attitudes among women that they face discrimination in almost all areas of private and public life. Women over 50, the first generation to have a majority in the workforce, see far more discrimination in every area of life than younger women. And when it comes to the armed forces, the poll shows a similar pattern of older and higher income women reporting the highest levels of discrimination against them. About 72% of women that they were being treated unfairly in politics—a perception that Hillary Clinton’s appointment as secretary of state, the third woman in that position, would likely do little to assuage.

  18. One source says the Obama Team seems to think it can demand that the former president abide by the restrictions put on a general government official, which just isn’t tenable.

    There has even been talk of the Obama White House wanting to approve every speech the former President Gives gives, or any new source of income.
    ______________________________-
    Bots may think this is tactical but in the end all it really is is naive. Sophisticated people have a pretty good idea of what the boundary lines are between reasonable demands and unreasonable ones which can cause a deal to blow up.

  19. I was wrong about Hillary going to the summit. I checked back with my friend on that one and stand corrected. Sorry.

  20. American women overwhelmingly believe they are being treated unfairly in the press, in the workplace, in politics, and in the armed forces, according to a poll by The Daily Beast of 1,000 U.S. voters. The poll comes on the heels of the first-ever presidential election with two high profile women candidates who ran but did not win.
    ——————————————
    How many of them voted for Bambi despite those feelings?

  21. good question wbboei. Somebody needs to do an in-depth study on women and why they repeat misogynistic talking points and undermine their own (by voting for BO).

  22. count, that survey/article just reinforces what some of us, women face in the workplace. Even as I write this, I spent the whole day today sitting in panels and presentations with a room full of men and countable on one hand the number of women. It is pathetic.

    About curbing BC’s activities by Obamabots in the future if Hillary became SoS, something does not sound right about this whole SoS thing. BC will never agree to that and Hillary should not want the job so badly either. Something is off with this whole thing.

  23. meiyingsu Says:
    November 18th, 2008 at 9:25 pm

    A Wrinkle in the Obama-Clinton Negotiations
    November 18, 2008 9:03 PM

    …There has even been talk of the Obama White House wanting to approve every speech the former President Gives gives, or any new source of income…

    Might this be related to something Bill Clinton might reveal about the primary campaign? Remember Bill Clinton making a statement during the primaries to the effect that by January of 2009, he will be freer to talk about what really happened during the primaries? What could this possibly be and what is the Obama camp scared of?

  24. OK, today there are some articles saying Hillary hasn’t decided to accept SoS. Here’s my problem with that: Why would she make Bill go through the whole vetting thing only to decide she doesn’t want the job after all? That doesn’t make a lot of sense. And I have no doubt the vetting is happening. She either has to have accepted the offer or be leaning heavily toward it.

  25. Admin is right. BO wants to ream his rivals.

    Obama cannot be trusted by friend nor foe. Obama cannot be trusted by friend nor foe. Obama cannot be trusted by friend nor foe.

    Obama cannot be trusted by friend nor foe. Obama cannot be trusted by friend nor foe. Obama cannot be trusted by friend nor foe.

    If those reports are true, about team BO wanting to curtail BC’s activities, something smells rotten and inappropriate.

  26. The talk about Hillary as SOS and Eric Holder as AG is causing hearburn among the true believers in hopey changie. Hillary was called unfit because Bill pardoned Marc Rich and now Obama appoints the Clinton AG who signed off on his pardon.

  27. To bots:

    Look into the hopium pot
    And see Barack as Barack is not
    Your faith was peachy til it passed
    The mischief was that did not last

  28. SHV Says:

    November 18th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
    The talk about Hillary as SOS and Eric Holder as AG is causing hearburn among the true believers in hopey changie. Hillary was called unfit because Bill pardoned Marc Rich and now Obama appoints the Clinton AG who signed off on his pardon.

    ——————————————————————————————————————

    Just what people did the bots think that BO was going to bring into his administration? There are only so many experienced democratic leaders out there. And they didn’t think, experience was necessary.

    As Admin said, “The poor Hopium addled are confused, wandering the streets, bumping into walls.”

    PRICELESS!

  29. To Bots: (edit)

    Look into the hopium pot
    And see Barack as Barack is not
    Your faith was peachy til it passed
    Your dream of change that did not last

  30. Just what people did the bots think that BO was going to bring into his administration? There are only so many experienced democratic leaders out there. And they didn’t think, experience was necessary.
    As Admin said, “The poor Hopium addled are confused, wandering the streets, bumping into walls.”
    PRICELESS!
    ****************
    Obama is a sociopath. He has utter contempt for his glassy-eyes ‘obot supporters. If Hillary is the SOS nominee, I think it will be more about Obama’s sick sense of humor than any other reason. He is like a teen-age boy with ODD.

  31. This vetting issue (Obama vetting Bill????!!!!) came up in the VP discussion. Having got some records together for that, it’s probabaly not taking too much of the Clintons’ time to tell some staffer to send off another copy or whatever. They can afford a dozen staff/media people full time just to deal with Obama’s ongoing nonsense. Obama will probably start some congressional investigation of the Clintons next, wanting all the same material.

    I hope HIllary tells him to stuff SOS. I hope we’re not in such danger of WWIII that she has to be the one to keep him on leash all the time. Where’s Albright? LET Judas have it, they deserve each other, and Judas may be Judas, but he was competent in the Clinton admin and he is sane, compared to Obama.

    That’s about facts. The Clintons letting this circus of speculation go on (as it did for VP), is another thing. I’m sure they’ve got some good reason for the smoke screen, maybe some more good Clintonistas sneaking back into DC behind it.

    Especailly into the Treasury…. 🙂

  32. About curbing BC’s activities by Obamabots in the future if Hillary became SoS, something does not sound right about this whole SoS thing. BC will never agree to that and Hillary should not want the job so badly either. Something is off with this whole thing.
    ——————————————–
    That is because the impetus is not coming from msnbc but from across the ocean. I have nothing to prove it, but my gut tells me its true and logic confirms it. Quite simply, world leaders are nervous about Barack and they are not seduce by his assurances that he is the one they have been waiting for. The President of France calls him an empty suit and the President of Poland has learned not to trust his word. That sort of thing spreads fast through the EU and NATO. The other thing is I fully expect Biden is pushing for this and that counts for something. I think there is a credibility gap and the powers that be are under pressure to plug it. But that is all just supposition and guess work.

  33. Especailly into the Treasury….
    —————————————
    turndown: what do you really thing of Summers? You have not been altogether clear on that subject.

  34. the distinction being what Obama says and what Obama does.
    —————————————–
    ADMIN: that is the key to obama.

    Every politican can be forgiven for moving off a position now and then in response to changing facts and pressures.

    But when he cannot hold a position for more than five minutes that is a problem. And when you cannot belive what he says because it is contrary to what he actually does it is a bigger problem.

    That is Obamas stock in trade. People cannot trust him and they cannot support him because when he changes his positon, they will be made to look foolish even if he can finesse his own way out of it.

    The first reaction of an experienced politician will be I can help teach him the ropes and he will be reliant on me. The studied reaction is this guy has more positions than Carter has pills, I cannot build a solid platform of my own of on these shifting sands and I do not want to be the one swimming without a bathing suit when the tide goes out.

  35. wbboei Says:
    November 19th, 2008 at 12:37 am
    Especailly into the Treasury….
    —————————————
    turndown: what do you really thing of Summers? You have not been altogether clear on that subject.
    ==========

    Really now? I guess I’ll keep posting about him till I get it clear, then. 🙂 Brilliant, problem-solver, the Clintons’ choice for the Treasury that fixed the economy in the 90s. Cares about actually solving the problems rather than his own career or popularity. Bright-eyed pouncing brilliance, like Hillary.

    I’m trying to start a dedicated blog, but material keeps multiplyng and the blog interfaces are slow.

  36. rickya Says:
    November 18th, 2008 at 10:14 pm

    Might this be related to something Bill Clinton might reveal about the primary campaign? Remember Bill Clinton making a statement during the primaries to the effect that by January of 2009, he will be freer to talk about what really happened during the primaries? What could this possibly be and what is the Obama camp scared of?

    Good point, rickya. I’m sure Bill and Hillary know plenty that the Obama people would not want public. All of the caucus fraud comes immediately to mind. To my knowledge, all of the Clinton camp’s complaints were pretty much buried by the DNC, and of course MSM had no interest in the story. But perhaps they fear Bill going public and talking about how much fraud and intimidation actually took place.

  37. Just read over at riverdaughters that Teddy is now saying as of 9pm tonight that Hillary will be one of 3 people to head up health care, WTF happened, could me BC and Hillary had them by the cajones afterall. I hope so, we need those two fighting for us!!!

  38. Stay in the Senate Hillary and fight for healthcare. Fight Barack Obama’s 15 Million Lies. Fight for genuine and true UNIVERSAL health care, not the mess Obama proposes. Hillary, remember what Paul Krugman wrote about Obama’s destructive health care plan
    —————————————–
    I hear ya Admin. If that is what she decides to do it is at least good to see Barbara M will be heading a commitee–she was a loyal supporter of Hillary as I recall. Harkin was a wus according to a little birdie who shall go unamed who supported him from the date of his first senate campaign but is no longer speaking to him because he failed to support Hillary.

    I was talking to a friend today who told me that if he fails to offer her the job, this will be seen as the second time he has floated her name and then manuevered his way out of it. She went on to say that is boorish behavior from a president but is particularly so when it is directed at a person of national and worldwide stature who campaigned relentlessly to get him elected. It makes him look very small and petty to friends and foes alike–a testament to his character-or lack thereof.

  39. Uhmmm, my prediction, is that we will see Hillary is just about every facet of his administration from Healthcare to SOS and maybe a few other things. See knows too much and he knows he had better keep her busy!!! Just a prediction, folks! LOL!!

  40. confloyd Says: Uhmmm, my prediction, is that we will see Hillary is just about every facet of his administration from Healthcare to SOS and maybe a few other things.
    ===========

    Mm, the people who are promoting Hillary for Senate Majority Leader might say that position officiallly touches every facet, including dealing with foreign dignitaries. Couldn’t she have a secretary for the administrative part?

  41. Hillary due in W.PA. friday to speak at the memorial mass for the late Lt.Gov.Katherine Baker Knoll. As SOS she would not be able to attend.Obama would make sure she too busy cleaning uo his political droppings.Bill will be here next week for a meeting at the Wm.Penn Hotel by invitation only.These two superb servants of our country will never allow themselves be marginalized and cast aside.Obama came on the scene with the support of the Chicago financial mobsters holding the race card in his hands like the Holy Grail and sprinkling his flock with the muddy water of fear.I will never worry about the decisions that Bill and Hill make for our country and the people that they have fought and been bloodied by the MSM and their puppets.
    Be patient all and watch this dynamic duo slowly carefuly and bravely fight in defense of the country and people that they love.

    By ABM90 Pay attention all. You are watching history being made and we must remain hopeful and willing to do our part.
    Obama is creating buyers remorse 24/7 and he has yet to be vetted and inaugurated.

    “TO THINK WE COULD HAVE HILLARY”

  42. Admin
    Thankyou again for this site.
    After waking up and turning on the morning news programs I was sickenned as I listenned to the gratuitous fawning. This site is an oasis.

  43. ABM 90: This return of some responsible people may signal that delusional as they are, the powers that be realize they can only carry their delusion so far. Obviously, the talking heads are too far gone to face the fact, but when you abandon the truth for ideology as often as they have this is where it inevitably leads.

    If would appear that there are enough people out there who will not allow the racebaiting, middle class hating, big media craving Obama-Brazille-Dean-Pelosi-Clyburn cabal to destroy our nation, its economy and our traditions. Bush was bad–no he was terrible–but these people are no better.

    If Barack had been there at D-Day he never would have made it about the vehicle landing craft–much less the beach. He would have been safely esconsned in sick bay letting someone else go in his place. He would send a note to the fleet admiral ordering him not to fire so many rounds at the beach because the sound of it wa hurting his ears and he was trying to get some well earned (a big media term used to describe his lazy ass) sleep.

  44. henry Says:

    November 19th, 2008 at 9:21 am
    Admin
    Thankyou again for this site.
    After waking up and turning on the morning news programs I was sickenned as I listenned to the gratuitous fawning. This site is an oasis.
    ————————————–
    Henry: this media fawning will just have to run its course. They are reacting to past events not past or future ones. The official corronation not really a future event because it was foredained by the theft which occurred on November 4 and all those that preceded it. I am talking about future events like further damage to our economy and foreign events which he is unprepared for. The arful doger is about to enter the snakepit. One problem he will encounter is decisionmaking. Another is public gaffs. Yet another is to move from campaingning –which he has always done, to govening–which he has never done. He may think he can do it through advisors but sooner or later that will fail. Act 3.

  45. Al-Qaida No. 2 insults Obama in new audio message
    CAIRO,Egypt (AP) – Al-Qaida No. 2 Ayman al-Zawahri insulted Barack Obama in the terror group’s first reaction to his election, calling him a demeaning racial term implying that the president-elect is a black American who does the bidding of whites.

    The message appeared chiefly aimed at persuading Muslims and Arabs that Obama does not represent a change in U.S. policies. Al-Zawahri said in the message, which appeared on militant Web sites Wednesday, that Obama is “the direct opposite of honorable black Americans” like Malcolm X, the 1960s African-American rights leader.

    Al-Zawahri also called Obama—along with secretaries of state Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice—”house negroes.”
    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D94I1LA80&show_article=1

  46. here are some snippets from the WSJ:

    WASHINGTON — Former President Bill Clinton has offered to submit future charitable and business activities to strict ethics reviews if his wife, New York Sen. Hillary Clinton, were nominated as secretary of state, according to Democrats familiar with the deliberations. He has also agreed for the first time to disclose many of the previous donors to his efforts.

    Mr. Clinton would also seek clearance from two separate entities — the White House counsel and the State Department’s ethics chief — on all donations to his charitable foundation, the William J. Clinton Foundation, which includes his presidential library and the Clinton Global Initiative. He would follow the same procedure before agreeing to any paid speeches, according to people close to the talks. Additionally, Mr. Clinton would step away from his foundation’s daily operations — all significant concessions for his wife, one person added.

    At the same time, Sen. Clinton’s aides say she hasn’t decided to take the secretary of state job even if the vetting hurdles were cleared. She is weighing whether she’d rather stay in the Senate to pass the universal health-care program that has been a centerpiece of her public career. After being “excited” about the prospect raised by Mr. Obama, said one adviser, Sen. Clinton is now grappling with the pros and cons in discussions with her husband, daughter Chelsea and close aides. As the adviser said, she would have to be subordinate to other personalities, rather than having her own voice as New York’s senator.

    online.wsj.com/article/SB122706609633840173.html

    This doesn’t sound that great. I don’t think those terms are acceptable. What do you all think?

  47. Bill Clinton in Talks to Smooth Wife’s Path to Cabinet

    online.wsj.com/article/SB122706609633840173.html

    “Bill Clinton will not be the obstacle to whether Hillary gets this job or not,” said one Democrat familiar with the situation. Another person added: “He’s willing to be as transparent as the Obama world wants.”

    SNIP
    Even with these discussions, it’s unclear whether Mrs. Clinton will wind up as Mr. Obama’s secretary of state. People involved in the vetting process say others being discussed include Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry and New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson,

    SNIP

    At the same time, Sen. Clinton’s aides say she hasn’t decided to take the secretary of state job even if the vetting hurdles were cleared. She is weighing whether she’d rather stay in the Senate to pass the universal health-care program that has been a centerpiece of her public career. After being “excited” about the prospect raised by Mr. Obama, said one adviser, Sen. Clinton is now grappling with the pros and cons in discussions with her husband, daughter Chelsea and close aides. As the adviser said, she would have to be subordinate to other personalities, rather than having her own voice as New York’s senator.

    SNIP

    As part of the campaign by Clinton allies to persuade the Obama team of Mrs. Clinton’s acceptability, the Clinton supporters are arguing that former President George H.W. Bush continued to give speeches and get donations for his presidential library while his son has been president. They also note that Sen. Clinton has served on the Foreign Relations Committee without interference or controversy from her husband’s activities.

  48. “Bill Clinton will not be the obstacle to whether Hillary gets this job or not,” said one Democrat familiar with the situation. Another person added: “He’s willing to be as transparent as the Obama world wants.”

    _________________________________________

    So then this should be the time that Obama and his creepy crawlers step up and say: Obama is willing to also be as transparent as the WHOLE WORLD (minus the media) want! That is what a president elect should be. Too little too late.

    So we now know for certain that media integrity is lost forever. I hope each and everyone of their shows tank.

  49. JanH Says:

    November 19th, 2008 at 10:44 am
    “Bill Clinton will not be the obstacle to whether Hillary gets this job or not,” said one Democrat familiar with the situation. Another person added: “He’s willing to be as transparent as the Obama world wants.”

    ——————————————————————————————————–

    Too bad, bo isn’t as transparent, as he would like everyone else to be. Just another way to control people.

  50. Too bad, bo isn’t as transparent, as he would like everyone else to be. Just another way to control people.
    ———————————–
    Control freaks cannot survive in an open system. And the more he tries to seal things off the more opposition to him will build. Wait until he has some foreign policy crisis, you will get the pr bullshit at first and then the truth will come out.

  51. Wbboei well said.You are a true gem in this troubled climate of lies and deception. You are so right that these are dangerous times for the entire world and a novice with no or bad plans for the future of this country will be a disaster unlike any a sitting president since Herbert Hoover. Not vetting the chosen one to ascertain his true identity and if he is dead or alive in the activities that hard working Americans expect of him and his followers.In either case he would not pass the smell test of verification.

    BY ABM90 Emjay are you OK? Have missed your input for a while.

  52. Hillary, Plan B?
    November 19, 2008 11:12 AM

    From our Chief Capitol Hill reporter Jonathan Karl:

    Just in case Hillary Clinton is NOT to be the next Secretary of State…

    …Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid is working on ways to increase Mrs. Clinton’s power and stature in the US Senate. He began discussing various options with Senator Clinton “about a week ago,” according to a senior Democratic leadership aide.

    They are discussing two options: 1) Crafting a new leadership post that would give Senator Clinton a prominent policy role; and, 2) Giving Senator Clinton an additional plum committee assignment.

    Currently, Senator Clinton is, of course, a relatively junior Senator and, as such, has little formal power in an institution that is largely run by seniority. Her biggest formal title is chair of an environmental subcommittee. She made a move a couple weeks ago to become chair of a health care policy subcommittee which would/could have taken the lead on health care, but Ted Kennedy blocked the move (he’ll be the lead on that, thank you very much). Senator Kennedy, however, yesterday announced that Senator Clinton will be one of three Senators with a key role in helping him craft health care legislation.

    None of this is to suggest she is not going to be Secretary of State, but it is an indication that she is keeping other options open.

    Also: Regarding the Secretary of State post, a key Democratic Senator who is close to Obama told me yesterday, rather emphatically, “It’s not a done deal, I can tell you that.”

    November 19, 2008 | Permalink | User Comments (2)

  53. They are discussing two options: 1) Crafting a new leadership post that would give Senator Clinton a prominent policy role; and, 2) Giving Senator Clinton an additional plum committee assignment.

    Currently, Senator Clinton is, of course, a relatively junior Senator and, as such, has little formal power in an institution that is largely run by seniority.

    ****
    1) why not just make her President
    2) the scariest thing is the President-elect is even more junior than Senator Clinton

  54. I unfortunately saw Chris mathews on Leno when changing the channels and made the mistke of watching. He was so out of place, humorless, and truly showed his love for Obama and hatred for everything Clinton. He is a little putz who looked lost without he bully pulpit.

  55. more from Tina Brown: (excerpt only)

    www1.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-11-18/will-secretary-of-state-be-enough-for-hillarys-army/1/

    “Feminism” threatens to go the way of “Black Power.” The young who are not gnarled and knocked around by the old fights are tired of the overtones of special pleading. It’s like the difference between the Barack generation and the Jesse generation. Obama types don’t lug around the ancient history bag that John Lewis dug into when he made that overkill comparison between McCain’s campaign and George Wallace’s.

    Will the twenty percenters be assuaged if Hillary accepts the job of Secretary of State? Some will still grumble that it’s all window dressing: Hillary should have got the nomination. She should have been offered the vice presidential slot. Now she’s being offered a job on the victor’s terms, take it or leave it. At post-primary fund-raisers, when Hillary dutifully appealed for support for Barack, I suspect she had to conceal some exasperation of her own when impassioned devotees pleaded with her to “go on fighting for all of us.”

    Hillary is more pragmatic than her “dead-enders.” She knows that as Secretary of State she would be not just be numero uno in the Cabinet. She wouldn’t shrink into the office—the office would have to grow to accommodate her. Her appointment would be a return to the tradition of the office being held by political giants. Presidents from Jefferson to Van Buren (with the exception of Andrew Jackson) held the position. The two women preceding Hillary, Madeleine Albright and Condi Rice, were not political figures, having never held or run for elective office. Hillary has a huge national constituency. It’s a great power base, and it makes Obama look good, too—magnanimous, presidential. And remember their combative, but respectful chemistry on the stump last summer when there was still a lot of buzz she could be his veep pick? Once Hillary dropped from view, no-drama Obama became a tiny bit boring for a while. As his presidency gets grueling and sour, as it will surely very swiftly become, he will need her again like Batman needs Robin. Not only is she super- smart and wired to Washington, she distracts the press while he gets on with governing.

  56. ok – even more from Tina Brown blog. Shows how great Hillary always was in global women’s issues:

    Hillary understands to a sophisticated degree how women are an untapped resource in the developing world—and as a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee she understands, too, that failed states and collapsing global economies create danger for America. When she was in the White House her earnest roundtable sessions talking about microcredit in villages in Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Nepal, India, Sri Lanka, and Nicaragua bored the pants off the traveling press, but they created jobs in those places, enhanced women’s status, energized local leaders, galvanized agencies, and helped promote democracy. “That’s not fluff,” to quote Melanne Verveer, her former chief of staff, who tells me that microcredit appeared on Hillary’s schedules more than 50 times in her travels as First Lady. If anything, it was Hillary’s passion that got Bill Clinton going on the global initiatives of his post presidency.

    And though she talked softly on those First Lady tours Hillary could also carry a big stick. She wasn’t afraid to offend the Russians with her campaign to end the trafficking of girls sold into sex slavery in Thailand. She chose the venue of Beijing to denounce the crime of babies “denied food or drowned or suffocated or their spines broken simply because they are born girls.” Hell bent on enhancing her commander-in-chief cred in the primaries, she dialed back too much from what she had achieved for women. In 1995, her speech in Beijing to the UN fourth world conference for women was blacked out on official radio and television, but her ringing declaration that “human rights are women’s rights and women’s rights are human rights” made her an icon (I won’t say a feminist icon) still adored in places where she might now step off the Secretary of State’s reconfigured U.S. Air Force Boeing 757 bearing the seal of the United States of America.

  57. Once again I am saying this!!!!

    DO NOT BE FOOLED BY THIS KENNEDY TRI_CHAIR HEALTH CMTE….

    He has given hillary the toughest area,. the least likely to get thru….

    The sooner TED EFFING KENNEDY IS OUT OF THE SENATE the better it will be….

    And I am not convinced by Reid either….Hillary the best you can do is getting behinf the real dem candidate for 2012….it cannot be you but it can be evan bayh!!!!!

    Yes…please let us all get behind evan bayh the 2012 candidate…and under him, Hill/bill will have a great chance!!!

  58. Pretty good synopsis, from WaPo:

    —————
    UPDATED, 11:30 pm: A Clinton adviser emails with some other thoughts about the seeming indecision by the New York Senator about the Secretary of State position.

    “I think she’s in legacy planning mode and needs to figure out how to make a mark over the next five years since that is her window,” said the adviser, granted anonymity to speak about private deliberations. “After that, the jockeying among Democrats for president in 2016 begins and she will fade (assuming she isn’t one of the Democrats running in 2016).”

    The plot thickens…

    ORIGINAL POST

    So the question facing her is whether she can make a mark as one of 100 and as a senator that lacks a specific jurisdiction over the issues she cares most about vs having a set turf (in the state dept) and platform from which she can command a spotlight.

    Although plenty of other political stories are sure to come and go over the next few days, there is only one MAJOR story out there: Will New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton be secretary of State in President-elect Barack Obama’s Administration?

    Ever since it was revealed late last week that the one-time rivals had huddled in Chicago to discuss the possibility of Clinton heading up the State Department, cable news, radio shows, newspapers, and online news sources have been dominated by speculation about whether she will take the job or not and why. (Set aside for the moment the potential complications presented by former President Bill Clinton’s work in foreign countries and the financial disclosure issues regarding his presidential library fundraising that might arise during the vetting process.)

    There is a growing sentiment that Clinton should just make up her mind already — either say “yes” or “no” to avoid dragging the process out any longer. (Politico’s Glenn Thrush, a veteran of the New York political scene, wrote a piece last night suggesting that Clinton remains undecided about what to do.)

    While that sentiment is not unexpected, it is unrealistic based on what we know of Clinton and her thoughts on her own political future.

    Talk to anyone who was a member of the Clinton campaign — inner or outer circle — and they will tell you that the New York senator was single-mindedly committed to winning the Democratic nomination and the White House until the day she decided to end her campaign.

    Time and time again during the campaign when it looked like she simply could not overcome Obama’s pledged delegate edge, we would ask Clinton aides whether she ever talked privately about the prospect of not winning. To a person, they insisted she never spoke about the possibility.

    So, when she ultimately did concede, Clinton had only just begun to grapple with the idea that she would not now — and might not ever — be the president of the United States.

    And, don’t forget, that Clinton’s six years in the Senate before she began running for president were generally regarded — even by her critics — as surprisingly productive and bipartisan. She clearly relished her role in the chamber and was, by almost all accounts, enjoying herself.

    For a moment put yourself in Clinton’s shoes. Imagine if a longtime life aspiration had been foreclosed relatively suddenly; you probably would not begin immediately to plot your next move, but rather would, almost assuredly, take some time to figure out what your options were and what you really wanted to do with the rest of your life.

    So it is with Clinton, according to those familiar with her thinking.

    “She is definitely unsure of what to do,” said one Clinton adviser granted anonymity to speak candidly about the New York senator’s state of mind. “She was flattered by the offer and thinks Senator Obama and his team have been good to work with.”

    The source added that if Clinton ultimately decides against the job, it won’t be because of the vetting process but rather because her interest in domestic policy issues — particularly health care and energy policy — ultimately trumps her desire to play a large role on the foreign stage. (Clinton was chosen by Sen. Ted Kennedy on Tuesday to head a task force on health insurance reform.)

    While that line of reasoning makes sense to us — especially when considering that Clinton may have never even thought of the possibility that she could be secretary of State until six days ago — there is a line of thinking in the political world that nothing the Clintons do is without calculation.

    If you ascribe to that idea, then this push by her advisers to paint Clinton as equivocating on her desire for the position could well be part of a power struggle between her and Obama; a public show of force to make clear that just because the president-elect has asked her for something doesn’t mean she is in any rush to accede.

    Given all that Clinton has been through since she announced her bid for president in January 2007, it seems entirely plausible that she legitimately hasn’t made up her mind about what she should do with the rest of her political life and will take the rest of the week to decide whether she wants to continue in elected office or walk down a different path.

    Regardless of her reasoning, the political world waits as she ponders the possibilities.

  59. – wsj and dailybeast –

    ===========

    Make my blood boil? — Well, I should say!

    Still that is media spin, and if Bill has supplied the spinnable, I expect there’s some good reason behind the smoke and mirrors.

  60. Why is Kennedy even still working in the senate? There really should be an age limit if not one for corruption and mental capability.

  61. Anybody know who is the #2 on the senate health/labor cmte…wonder who would take ever WHEN kennedy is no longer there!

  62. Berkeley: the washpo article does not provide any new insight, and is riddled with the speculation. They have always misread Hillary and they are doing so again now. Also, this analyisis–if that is what it purports to be fails to consider the consequences of a failed presidency. I have hated that newspaper since I had to make reports to upper classmen at breakfast at Annapolis over 40 years ago. They always have an agenda and their analysis is not very deep or insightful. They trade on gossip, and their one great asset–investigative journalism is moribund. They have been trying to write the Clinton obiturary for years and this legacy five year window never become president meme is par for the course. They remind me of Matthews except they do not slobber when they talk–except for David Broder. The window is twenty years and as long as this country needs a world class leader. That is the truth.

  63. Why is Kennedy even still working in the senate? There really should be an age limit if not one for corruption and mental capability.
    ——————————————–
    An excellent question.

  64. that wapo article – here we go again, trying to add to the “calculating” persona of HRC, detailing the motives behind her motives and the uber-motives that motivates them all as if they have a clue…

    it’s so tiresome. had they ever dissected Daschle’s motives to become cabinet member to this ridiculous extent? or even BO’s motives to become President on nothing but a thin resume as anything close to cold-heartedly ambitious?

  65. And I am not convinced by Reid either….Hillary the best you can do is getting behinf the real dem candidate for 2012….it cannot be you but it can be evan bayh!!!!!
    —————————————-
    mp: why do you say it cannot be Hillary? Or is there an “if” missing?

  66. Looks like SoS job for Hillary is moving closer to reality.

    Yes, it’s Politico, lol, but the AP story today said pretty much the same thing.

    news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081119/pl_politico/15775

  67. wbboei Says:
    November 19th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
    And I am not convinced by Reid either….Hillary the best you can do is getting behinf the real dem candidate for 2012….it cannot be you but it can be evan bayh!!!!!
    —————————————-
    mp: why do you say it cannot be Hillary? Or is there an “if” missing?
    ==========

    Do you really think there is a chance Hillary would choose to run in 2012? Against Obama?

  68. wbboei Says:

    November 19th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
    And I am not convinced by Reid either….Hillary the best you can do is getting behinf the real dem candidate for 2012….it cannot be you but it can be evan bayh!!!!!
    —————————————-
    mp: why do you say it cannot be Hillary? Or is there an “if” missing?

    —-
    because most folks who backed hillary will wnat THEIR CHANCE…they will not want to go thru what happened this year…

    So it is up to use to back the person Hillary respects most…and I think that Evan Bayh is definitely the one. Evan bayh should break away and become a centrist type and he will appeal to the GOP as well.. and he can choose a GOP candidate as a running mate that neither McCain nor Obama did this year…

    I wanted a McCain/Hillary team after the Denver disaster…too bad both McCain and Hillary did not form a real unity ticket!!!

  69. wbboei Says:

    November 19th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
    And I am not convinced by Reid either….Hillary the best you can do is getting behinf the real dem candidate for 2012….it cannot be you but it can be evan bayh!!!!!
    —————————————-
    mp: why do you say it cannot be Hillary? Or is there an “if” missing?

    —-
    because most folks who backed hillary will wnat THEIR CHANCE…they will not want to go thru what happened this year…

    So it is up to use to back the person Hillary respects most…and I think that Evan Bayh is definitely the one. Evan bayh should break away and become a centrist type and he will appeal to the GOP as well.. and he can choose a GOP candidate as a running mate that neither McCain nor Obama did this year…

    I wanted a McCain/Hillary team after the Denver disaster…too bad both McCain and Hillary did not form a real unity ticket!!!
    ———————————————
    mp: Anglachel has said exactly what you are saying. It is a serious point but it fails to take account of what will happen in the next four years. It is a reflection of the exhaustion and deep disappointment we all feel now. I believe it will depend on the ability to rebuild a centrist coalition within the party and to reach out to centrists in the other party, as obama implodes. If that can be done then the prize should still go to Hillary. If it cannot be done then neither she nor Bayh have a prayer. Your problem is not me. If she is not the one I will be right there with you supporting Bayh. But if this can be done I still want her to have the prize. By then I hope we can build an alternative media that will report the facts and expose the liar.

  70. wbboei:

    Hillary cannot/will not comepete against Obama… a person like Bayh from red state Indiana can and should!!!!!!!

    Unless we all settle for BO for 8 yrs!!!

  71. I doubt very much that Hillary will run again, just a feeling. That being said, I think she is going to go on to be a VIP in the Democratic Party in spite of the idiots and wannabe power mongers determination to cut her off at the knees. She has shown over and over again that she has their numbers.

  72. wbboei:

    Hillary cannot/will not comepete against Obama… a person like Bayh from red state Indiana can and should!!!!!!!

    Unless we all settle for BO for 8 yrs!!!
    ——————————————–
    mp: help me understand. Why do you say Hillary cannot/will not compete against Obama. She certainly did that during the primary up until the time the dnc stole the nomination. Is it the fact that supported him in the general election that causes you to say that or is it something else.

    I agree that Indiana is a red state, and I know have friends there who keep me informed. But it did go blue this time due to rampant cheating in the venues I have mentioned. Is there any possibility that problem will be fixed by 2012. If not then we are kidding ourselves about having a democracy.

  73. Hillary is a PARTY person…..and unless she starts going against the BO team, it ain’t going to work….

    We need the centrist candidates to be in the power positions on all committees….especially SoS, Defence, and homeland security and the treasury..

    HILLARY WILL NOT RUN AGAINST BO!!!!Period…

  74. mp, wbboei,

    Re a centrist coalition, we have two solid facts to speculate from:

    1. in spring, exit polls and telephone polls showed half of Hillary’s 18mil rejecting Obama (3m voting McCain, 4m staying home)
    2. in Nov, exit polls showed some considerable number of McCain’s votes wold have voted for Hillary.

    If someone will do a phone poll, we might learn how many people did stay home but would have come out for Hillary.

    So combining those would give a minimum figure for how many centrists are out there and willing to vote their centrism.

  75. Hillary is a PARTY person…..and unless she starts going against the BO team, it ain’t going to work….

    We need the centrist candidates to be in the power positions on all committees….especially SoS, Defence, and homeland security and the treasury..

    HILLARY WILL NOT RUN AGAINST BO!!!!Period…

    mp Says:

    November 19th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
    In 2012, the faces one will see will be sebelius, mccaskill for vp with bo!!!
    __________________________________
    mp: we disagree on both points.

    jan: you say it is a feeling. I feel the same way as you do NOW. How you, or I, and party centrists feel about it four years from now however is an imponderable given the challenges facing our country. The one thing I am relatively sure of is he will be a one (1) termer.

  76. Kennedy said some of the cruelest things about Hillary during the campaign and really got Obama rolling…hoping he is out of the senate asap and enjoying his time on Martha’s Vineyard….never a friend to the Clintons’. Caroline is also a disgrace to the “legacy”. At least Bobby’s side had common sense.

  77. If BO goes through with all these Clinton Restoration appointments, and is guided by them, there would be little reason for HIllary to challenge him in 2012.

    Especially the old Treasury Sec…. 🙂

  78. jbstonesfan: I do not know what Ted Kennedys mental state is at this point. I wonder if he is of sound and disposing mind when it comes to the task of governance or if someone else is making the lips move. It is odd that he would not be in Marthas Vinyard enjoying the last of his days.

  79. If BO goes through with all these Clinton Restoration appointments, and is guided by them, there would be little reason for HIllary to challenge him in 2012.

    Especially the old Treasury Sec….
    ——————————————
    You assume then that if he appoints Clinton people he will not take the country in a direction she disagrees with. I wonder about that–except in the case of that wonderful secretary of the treasury who a dear friend assures us is the best thing since sliced bread. Far be it from me to disagree with that informed perspective.

  80. wbboei,

    I said, AND IS GUIDED BY THEM. Results of a common cause. They and Hillary agree on many things or she would never have appointed them to her 90s cabinet in the first place.

    As for sliced bread, I’d love to hear more offline or at a blog which I’ll tell you about offline, it’s still too messy to post here.

  81. Oklahoma is normally a red state, always with a number of blue counties on election day. This year, everyone of the 77 counties went red for McCain / Palin. Not one county went blue!

    c. Not one went blue!

  82. Oklahoma is normally a red state, always with a number of blue counties on election day. This year, everyone of the 77 counties went red for McCain / Palin. Not one county went blue!

    c. Not one went blue!
    —————————————–
    Then Olkahoma can take pride in the fact that they saw through him far more clearly than most states. I believe we will see more Oklahomas in the next couple years, as more people find out who this guy is really about.

  83. I hear UN has a forum on racism!!!! to be hosted in NEw YORK!!!

    I think Obama will give the speech he gave earlier when Rev. Wright issue came up!!! WTF!!!

    Please do we need to have this!!!!

    Enough of this nonsense!!!

    BTW: I am not white!!!! so there…I am becoming more Republican as I see this kind of stupidity going on!!!

  84. Ah, the puzzle pieces are beginning to come into clearer focus. No wonder the vetting process is so tricky, and no wonder Hillary’s considering all her options:

    ———
    November 20, 2008
    If Clinton Chosen, Campaign Debts Would Wait
    By MICHAEL LUO
    nytimes.com

    Vendors still owed money from Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton’s presidential campaign could be out of luck for years should she become secretary of state.

    Mrs. Clinton still had about $7.9 million in outstanding bills from her presidential campaign at the end of September, according to Federal Election Commission records.

    Philippe Reines, a spokesman for Mrs. Clinton, said she has since whittled it to $7.6 million, not including the $13.2 million she loaned her campaign out of her own pocket, which officials have said she does not expect to be repaid.

    “Senator Clinton has said that paying off her campaign vendors is a priority for her,” Mr. Reines said in a statement, “and she remains committed to that goal.”

    But the Hatch Act, which governs the political activities of federal employees, including cabinet officials, normally prohibits the solicitation and receipt of political contributions.

    Mrs. Clinton’s situation is unusual because she is collecting money not for an active campaign but an old one, her failed presidential bid.

    Anthony Guglielmi, a spokesman for the United States Office of Special Counsel, which enforces the Hatch Act, cited a 2001 advisory opinion issued by the agency that stipulated a federal employee seeking to retire campaign debt incurred before federal employment would be barred from personally soliciting the donations, though the “campaign organization of a candidate who later becomes a federal employee may continue to organize and promote fundraising events to retire campaign debt.”

    In other words, Mrs. Clinton’s presidential campaign committee could technically continue to raise money towards retiring her debt but with little involvement on her part — which could severely hamper those fund raising efforts.

    The advisory opinion said that the former candidate cannot “assist in promoting the event and may not otherwise actively participate in such events.”

    On the other hand, it said that the former candidate could attend the fund-raising events, “be recognized and briefly state his appreciation to all whose efforts contributed to the retirement of his campaign debt” but any participation beyond “this passive role” would violate the law.

    There is the obvious question of appearances, however, which would complicate any efforts by Mrs. Clinton to continue to raise money.

    “The problem might come in potential conflicts of interests,” said Jim Kahl, a former deputy general counsel of the F.E.C. and a former official in the Office of Special Counsel.

    Campaign finance experts said if she joins the Obama cabinet, Mrs. Clinton would almost certainly shutter her political action committee, HillPac, but could leave her Senate re-election committee for 2012 and presidential campaign committee dormant.

    Another outside possibility is that Mrs. Clinton could successfully petition the election commission to forgive her debts, citing the fund-raising restrictions facing her as secretary of state. The commission would have to evaluate whether Mrs. Clinton had exhausted all reasonable means to pay down her debt.

    But Mr. Kahl said he believed it was “highly unlikely” that the commission would grant such a request, considering federal rules would still allow her campaign committee to continue to raise money, albeit under some constraints.

    “These debt settlements can go on for years,” Mr. Kahl said.

    Indeed, former Senator John Glenn, Ohio Democrat, struggled for more than two decades to pay off more than $3 million in debt he had left over from his 1984 presidential run until the F.E.C. finally granted him a reprieve.

    Mrs. Clinton may also be able to negotiate down some of her debts, but campaign finance rules that limit her ability to do so to prevent vendors from being able to provide gifts to candidates that exceed donation limits.

    Campaign finance experts were hard-pressed to recall any cabinet official facing a similar situation to what Mrs. Clinton would be confronting.

    “There have been members of Congress appointed to cabinet positions,” said Lawrence H. Norton, a former general counsel to the F.E.C. “If they had campaign debt, it wasn’t as notorious as hers is and probably not as substantial.”

    According to Bob Biersack, a commission. spokesman, former Gov. Bruce Babbitt of Arizona still had a debt of more than $128,000 from a presidential bid in 1988 when he was appointed to President Clinton’s cabinet as interior secretary in 1993.

    Campaign finance records show he did not raise any money to pay down his presidential debt while he was in the administration until 2001. Mr. Babbitt’s presidential campaign was shuttered in 1998, but it is unclear from the records exactly what became of his debt.

    At this point, most of the outstanding debts owed by Mrs. Clinton are to political consultants, as opposed to small businesses from primary and caucus states, whom campaign officials said they worked to pay back first.

    The largest outstanding bill, according to the most recent campaign finance records, was $5.3 million owed to her pollster, Mark Penn.

    The next biggest remaining debt was $831,414 to MSHC Partners, a direct mail firm.

    Kenneth Gross, a campaign finance lawyer with Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom, said there could easily be even less palatable scenarios for Mrs. Clinton’s creditors: “It’d be worse if she were on the Supreme Court.”

  85. NQ has a good posting about Friedman’s apprisal of Hillary’s chops, and yet his reservations about Obama bringing her on board:

    http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/11/19/liberal-media-to-hillary-stay-where-you-are/#more-6469

    For some reason, “Apocalypse Now” popped into my head (it could be the pain killers, I’m still getting over a root canal.)

    Kurtz: I expected someone like you. What did you expect? Are you an assassin?
    Willard: I’m a soldier.
    Kurtz: You’re neither. You’re an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill.

    Today’s errands boys are Thomas Friedman of the NY Times and the Washington Post’s David Broder. Both have turned out columns filled with praise for Senator Hillary Clinton. Both are sure she is more than up to the job of Secretary of State and both hope she stays in the Senate. It seems the Great Obama must not be sidetracked by the distractions of the Clintons! What they fail to mention is that most of the so-called distractions of the Clintons are created by the media in the first place. So in other words, the most qualified candidate for Secretary of State should not take the job because we (the MSM) will simply make it impossible for her to function since we will be spending inordinate amounts of time looking into every moment of private citizen and former President Clinton’s life, interpreting every utterance from him again and again and investigating every dime he makes. We will also dissect every facial expression from Hillary to figure out what she really must be thinking at every moment.

    You can read Friedman here and Broder here.

    Meanwhile, the man who will be President remains unvetted.

    Friedman is concerned with the relationship between Senator Clinton and the President-elect. He argues that for the Secretary of State to be effective, the world must know she is speaking for the President.

    Frankly, Obama could appoint his dear mother-in-law as secretary of state, and if he let the world know she was his envoy, she would be more effective than any ex-ambassador who had no relationship with the president.

    Our current president never cared about this, so neither of his secretaries of state were particularly effective. Rather than having Colin Powell’s back, President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld delighted in stabbing Powell in the back, particularly when he was on the road. But being close to the president is not enough. Condoleezza Rice had a close relationship with Bush, but Bush had no coherent worldview to animate her diplomacy, so all her travels added up to less than the sum of their miles. The two most impactful secretaries of state in the last 50 years were Baker and Henry Kissinger. Both were empowered by their presidents, and both could candidly talk back to their presidents.

    Foreign leaders can spot daylight between a president and a secretary of state from 1,000 miles away. They know when they’re talking to the secretary of state alone and when they are talking through the secretary of state to the president.

    It is a valid point. However, Senator Clinton’s performance on Obama’s behalf during this campaign more than proves she can be a team player. As a woman she has been forced to understand time and again how to succeed and forge ahead while playing a “subservient” role. As for their personal relationship, the MSM has been telling us about President-elect Obama’s great judgement for months. Shouldn’t they trust him on this one?

    As for Broder, well he just wants Obama to think for himself.

    What Obama needs in the person running the State Department is a diplomat who will carry out his foreign policy. He does not need someone who will tell him how to approach the world or be his mentor in international relations. One of the principal reasons he was elected was that, relying on his instincts, he came to the correct conclusion that war with Iraq was not in America’s interest. He was more right about that than most of us in Washington, including Hillary Clinton.

    Uh, David, what if he doesn’t have a foreign policy? This could be a President-elect reaching out because he needs help shaping that policy. If you haven’t noticed, most of President-elect Obama’s foreign policy talks have been at Rashid Khalidi’s dinner table. Yes, there were some vanity trips abroad during the campaign, but the experience and knowledge is not there. I am surprised Broder is not praising that “superior judgement” for the President-elect actually recognizing this.

    And of course, Broder reminds us she is married to Bill.

    Even if Hillary Clinton were ready to play such a subordinate role, which she might be, in return for a promise that her voice would be heard in the most serious policy debates, the presence of Bill Clinton makes that a doubly difficult assignment. The former president has, through the Clinton Global Initiative and his own extensive foreign travels and worldwide contacts, made himself a force in international affairs. It would be unfair, and unlikely, for him to shut down his own private foreign policy actions because they might conflict with his wife’s responsibilities. But foreign leaders would inevitably see Bill Clinton as an alternative route toward influencing American policy. And he would be unlikely to remain silent.

    Are you trying to say that Mrs. Clinton would not be able to act independently of her husband? You admit Bill is doing good work abroad, so he shouldn’t stop and she shouldn’t be Secretary of State because of that? If the President-elect wants her and she wants the job, this can be worked out. And my guess is that former President Clinton would do whatever it takes to see to it that she has what she wants.

    There are reports out today, that Senator Clinton has reservations about the job. She may decide she is better off staying in the Senate. If nothing else, remaining in the Senate will make it easier for her to raise funds to retire the debt she incurred during the campaign. As Secretary of State those activities are severely restricted. As a Senator she is free to speak out on any matter whenever she feels it is necessary. As a cabinet member, you must carry the company line.

    But it’s her decision to make. As for Friedman and Broder, another line from Apocalypse now comes to mind.

    Civilian: “Terminate with extreme prejudice”

    Terminate their columns, that is.

  86. BV, I don’t think the debt will stop her from taking the job if she wants it, but it is something that has be figured out beforehand. Could Bill and Chelsea work to retire the debt?

  87. I think Tom Friedman has done alot of damage along the way by seducing the country into believing that radical free trade is a good thing and even now refuses to aknowledge the terrible cost it has imposed on our middle class. The landscape of the rust belt tells the story.

    It is her decision. I think Bill definitely wants her as sos. If Bambi fails to offer it to her people around the world and in the party will hold him directly responsible this time. Already he has lost altitude on this one.

  88. mp Says:

    November 19th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
    I hear UN has a forum on racism!!!! to be hosted in NEw YORK!!!

    I think Obama will give the speech he gave earlier when Rev. Wright issue came up!!! WTF!!!

    Please do we need to have this!!!!

    Enough of this nonsense!!!

    BTW: I am not white!!!! so there…I am becoming more Republican as I see this kind of stupidity going on!!!
    ——————————————
    agreed.

  89. BV, I don’t think the debt will stop her from taking the job if she wants it, but it is something that has be figured out beforehand. Could Bill and Chelsea work to retire the debt?
    ———————————
    agreed. This is not a show stopper.

  90. Latest on Fox Hillary not interested in SoS.She likes being her own boss and will continue being Sen. from NY anfighting for her constituants.Good news for me and millions of other admirers.I hope it is true and she is as free as a bird from the Obama Legacy
    of Retribution for all that disagree with him and his looney agenda of spreading the wealth that is rapidly disappearing Like me I don’t want spend the rest of my life on a homegrown Banana diet.

    By ABM90 The ultimate optomist and righteous dude as some
    here have described me. Having fun is fun.

  91. ABM: I think this is good news for Senator Clinton. She will have more autonomy, be able to fundraise, and will be able to work for the issues that are dear to her. Also, Bill won’t have to curtail his activities, and will be able to maintain some privacy. Their lives are very complicated. I hope this is true.

  92. Latest on Fox Hillary not interested in SoS.She likes being her own boss and will continue being Sen. from NY anfighting for her constituants.Good news for me and millions of other admirers.I hope it is true and she is as free as a bird from the Obama Legacy
    of Retribution for all that disagree with him and his looney agenda of spreading the wealth that is rapidly disappearing Like me I don’t want spend the rest of my life on a homegrown Banana diet.
    ——————————————–
    ABM90: if that is what she has decided then it signals that she thinks she can be effective in a senate role. The question then becomes will she be the Hillary of the primary–which we loved or the Hillary of the general election–who was hard to watch. Initially, she will have to be the latter. But if he deviates from what is best for the country she will need to face the issue. She will have to decide at that point whether to fish or cut bait. This does keep other options open and allows her to be her own boss.

  93. I quickly did some research and found out Chris Dudd is the #2 on the health/welfare/education committee after Kennedy…but he is also chair of banking so more likley he could not have 2 chairs…

    Tom Harkin from iowa would then be the chair…

    As long as Dudd and Kennedy are in cahoots with each other and BO, Hill will be marginalized.

  94. If it is true that Hillary has declared herself not interested in becoming Obama’s Patsy, then…

    Yes! Check Mate! Score one again for Hillary! Obama———-Zilch!

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