Lessons For Republicans

Our respect to Veterans on this Veterans Day. We thank you Veterans for your service and devotion to duty. We applaud you for knowing not to give up even after initial defeat. You remind us never to give up and that every day is a struggle to do what is right and that the fight never ends – eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

* * *

Republicans have many lessons to learn from this election cycle. In coming days we will explore what some of those lessons for Republicans are and how they should be addressed.

We are Democrats (not Obama Dimocrats), not Republicans although the experience of this election has turned many of our numbers into former Democrats. We suggest these lessons for Republicans because as Hillary supporters during the primaries we experienced early what the Republicans would later experience in the general election.

The first important lesson for Republicans can really only be learned by watching Obama supporters.

That lesson is: Beware of political Messiahs – they quickly turn to Mess-iahs. Republicans actually believed, back in 1999-2000 the nonsense that George W. spewed. We Democrats were aghast at the worshipping and the belief that George W. would prove anything but just another politician. Republican supporters of George W. however turned George W. into a belief system. George W. could do no wrong. Bill Clinton’s administration was blamed for every evil and the clear incompetence of George W. was excused. The September 11 attacks were politically exploited by George W. and Karl Rove to save his presidency even though the vacationing Bush and his crony cabinet had ignored written and explicit warnings of potential attacks. Still George W. was excused by Kool-aid drinking Republicans, until in 2008 the excuses and the Kool-aid ran out. Republicans, look at the Obama Kool-aid drinkers and see what we Democrats saw back in 2000.

Lesson #2: Beware of Big Media. In the 2000 election Big Media trashed Al Gore and did everything in its power to install George W. Big Media won in 2000 and Republicans were happy. But in 2008, Big Media won again and now Republicans are not so happy. Obama and Obama supporters sold themselves to Big Media power and today they celebrate but the tears of joy will soon enough turn to tears of sorrow. Republicans and Democrats must learn to fight the Big Media power that determines our election outcomes and sets the agenda for what is legitimate and what is not legitimate. The fight against Big Media power is potential common ground for Democrats and Republicans.

Lesson #3: Misogyny and sexism are ugly and dangerous and pervasive. As Hillary supporters we saw the ugliness of misogyny and sexism come from both men and women Dimocrats. As Palin supporters, Republicans saw the ugliness of misogyny and sexism come from both men and women. Common ground. On this website we defended Governor Palin against misogyny and sexist attacks. We were genuinely happy to see Republicans who made careers out of misogyny and sexism turn on a dime and become advocates for women.

The fight against misogyny and sexism are a potential future path for Republican success. Don’t screw that up Republicans. There are many future contenders for the Republican nomination and many fearful Dimocrats trashing Governor Palin these past few days. Don’t let that trashing persist.

We’ll discuss Governor Palin in particular as we continue our explorations of lessons for Republicans arising from the 2008 election cycle. For now, we’ll let Governor Palin’s appearance on the Greta Van Susteren show speak for itself. In this interview Governor Palin addresses many of the questions about her clothes, feminism, environmentalism, energy policy and her potential future run for president.

Lesson #4: “The wheel’s still in spin.” That ominous line from Dylan’s anthem The Times They Are A-Changing is both curse and promise. The fight is still on. The game is afoot. The Hopium will wear off, at least among the thinking.

The recognition of these obvious points should also alert us to a related danger, which is the cousinhood of euphoria and hysteria. Those who think that they have just voted to legalize Utopia (and I hardly exaggerate when I say this; have you been reading the moist and trusting comments of our commentariat?) are preparing for a disillusionment that I very much doubt they will blame on themselves. The national Treasury is an echoing, empty vault; our Russian and Iranian enemies are acting even more wolfishly even as they sense a repudiation of Bush-Cheney; the lines of jobless and evicted are going to lengthen, and I don’t think a diet of hope is going to cover it. Nor even a diet of audacity, though can you picture anything less audacious than the gray, safety-first figures who have so far been chosen by Obama to be on his team?

Lesson #5: Don’t underestimate the stupidity and cupidity of the Dimocratic Party. Look to the New York State Senate if you need a good laugh while learning this lesson which involves anti-gay Democratic latino legislators jockeying for power against African-American leaders.

Confusion broke out in the State Senate on Wednesday as four dissident Democrats refused to commit to backing a member of their own party for majority leader, throwing Democratic control into question just a day after the party captured a majority of the chamber’s seats.

What should have been a celebratory moment — the elevation of Senator Malcolm A. Smith to the majority leader’s post and an end to four decades of Republican dominance — was instead a somewhat humiliating one, as party leaders scrambled to unite Democratic members.

Lesson #6: Don’t mistake losses for victories and victories for losses. This one is related to to Lesson #7 and Lesson #8. Remember, Obama’s coattails were short, and turnout this election was not all the propaganda cracks it up to be. Even the New York Times acknowledges that this election was a normal win, not a blowout. Read the usually fair Jay Cost and his arguments for why 2008 is not a “realignment” election. In 2008 many Republicans stayed home contrary to the Obama propaganda ministry claims. A key goal will be to get your fellow Republicans back to the ballot box. And now, Lesson #7.

Lesson #7: Have the fight you have been avoiding. In 2008 the big bright spot for Republicans or conservatives were the ugly victories against gay marriage in California, Florida, and Arizona. In California, African-Americans who voted for Obama and are socially conservative voted against civil rights for Gay-Americans. While this year you can celebrate these “victories” the tide of history is against you on this issue. Even young Republicans are shifting on the issue of gay rights. So, while it is difficult (especially since social issues are the only “bright spot”) to argue, Republicans need to decide if the social issue victories are worth the price of future electoral defeat. Have the fight you have been avoiding – social issues paramount or economic issues paramount? Decide.

Lesson #8: Play to your strengths. Get back to being the crotchety old party of pinchpennies not wastrels. George W. looted the economy for his friends. The 1994 Republican “Revolution” was a lie. Instead of shrinking government the Republicans have given us monstrosities such as the Homeland Security Department, bloated budgets, and deficits and debt.

Lesson #9: Get the leaders you deserve. Dump the losers who have been leading your party. This is already happening at the congressional level as your leaders resign and leave. Dump your failed leadership – get back to principles.

The GOP has been laid low, thanks to politicians who swapped their principles for power and lost both. As the chief electoral vehicle for conservative and free-market ideas, the Republican party cannot regain America’s confidence –nor should it — until the guilty have been cast into the nearest volcano. [snip]

When Bush arrived, Washington consumed 18.4 percent of Gross Domestic Product. Uncle Sam now devours 22.5 percent of the economy, reported Jon Ward in the October 19 Washington Times. “The country has gone from a $128 billion budget surplus when Mr. Bush took office to a deficit of at least $732 billion in fiscal 2009,” Ward writes. “No president since FDR — who offered a New Deal to pull the nation out of the Great Depression and then fought World War II — has presided over as rapid a growth in government when measured as a percentage of the total economy.”

While much of Bush’s spending has funded defense and the War on Terror, most of it vanished into the furnaces of No Child Left Behind, the 2002 Farm Bill, the 2003 Medicare drug entitlement, the 2005 highway bill, the 2006 ethanol mandate, at least 69,341 earmarks, and much, much more. In 2001, Bush launched federal embryonic stem-cell research. By 2008, he added the word “nationalization” to the American vocabulary, and underscored it with nearly $1 trillion in bailouts and Third World—style government ownership stakes in banks and financial houses. [snip]

With few exceptions, Republican congressional leaders cheered this elephantiasis amid an atmosphere of corruption, incompetence, and unaccountability. Top Senate Republican Mitch McConnell, House GOP chief John Boehner, House Republican whip Roy Blunt, and other failed leaders should go warm the back benches. Senator Ted “Bridge to Nowhere” Stevens will become Ted “Jail to Nowhere” Stevens — and not soon enough.

Former Senate GOP leaders Bill Frist and Trent Lott, and top House Republicans Dennis Hastert and Tom DeLay have nothing to offer America. They should be left alone to fade quietly into obscurity.

Former House speaker Newt Gingrich captured the House from the Democrats, passed the Contract with America, and then bungled his speakership while conducting an extramarital affair with a subordinate during the Clinton impeachment drama. Why do pro-family conservatives, or anyone else, still heed this man?

Lesson #10: Hold Obama and the Dimocrats to their promises. Yes you will look like hypocrites. Face it you will be hypocrites. Demand an end to signing statements. Force Obama to fulfill all his promises. Write legislation based on Obama promises and force the Dimocrats to reject their own proposals or to implement them. When Obama submits his budget requests for hundreds of billions of dollars for the Iraq War – mock him – as a traitor to Move-on and DailyKooks. Watch Obama like a hawk. And remember, Obama can’t be trusted….

Don’t be afraid of the fight. Don’t be afraid of the clash of ideas.

Extreme Republican libertarian arguments against government are just as ridiculous as extreme Democratic big government tax and spend liberal philosophies. Extreme Republican war-mongering is as silly as extreme Democratic pacifism. Extreme Republican authoritarian police-state policies are as out of place as criminal coddling Democratic policies. While these are caricatures of both partys’ positions the role of government and budgetary decisions are important fights that never end. Fight this fight. Make a strong case for your position. The fights are worth having and necessary to have. We can find common ground, but Unity? Bah! The Obama “unity” delusion was at best an Obama deceptive ploy. These fights matter and will not end because Hopium eaters have a buzz.

Our infatuation with “unity” is a recurring delusion of American politics. Among the many examples are the hapless attempts that political geeks make year after year to form third parties that will transcend ideology and return us to our natural, prelapsarian state of cooperation. Ross Perot capitalized on the delusion by telling voters they could join together, hire a managerial expert to run the government “like a business,” and do away with a political class that was driving them apart (and not paying enough attention to him). The most recent and consequential example of it is the mesmerism of Barack Obama’s presidential campaign.

Unity is a phantasm raising hopes for something that can’t be delivered–or that, once delivered, would be so un-American it would scare us half to death. Yet unity was Obama’s theme. The sales pitch was a proposition that seemed self-evident: The only way “to get things done” and “move this country forward” was to “bring us together,” just as we believe Reagan did even though he didn’t.

Whether Obama really thinks such a thing is possible is anybody’s guess. He doesn’t look like a cynic to me. As a career politician, he has been required by his profession to face opponents and defeat them if he wants to get his way. Division is what politicians do. He’s got to know this, even if his blissed-out followers don’t. In his endless campaign, though, he never stopped talking as if the clashing political interests and contending ideas of a big, complicated, self-governing country were all just a terrible misunderstanding. His final stump speech–which his campaign called, with customary pomposity, the “closing argument,” as though the candidate had suddenly turned into Perry Mason–was drenched in togetherness. Right at the top he promised that his victory would “put an end to the politics that would divide a nation just to win an election; that tries to pit region against region, city against town, Republican against Democrat  .  .  .  ”

Obama’s theatrical gift is such that his listeners seldom pause to think about what he’s saying. He communicates through a kind of subverbal music, half-heard and absorbed rather than cogitated on. But consider that promise above. What kind of “politics .  .  . divides the nation just to win an election”? Well, every kind. Elections presuppose a divided nation; if the nation weren’t divided it wouldn’t need an election. Besides, politics, of whatever kind, doesn’t cause the divisions; it expresses them and clarifies them.

Totalitarian regimes are expert at creating “unity”. But our veterans fought for our right to dissent. We’ll continue to dissent. We’ll continue to reject hypodermic infusions of lobotomizing Hopium.

It’s the least we can do for our veterans.

And that’s a lesson for Republicans too.

Happy Veterans Day.

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183 thoughts on “Lessons For Republicans

  1. ‘Don’t underestimate the stupidity and cupidity of the Dimocratic Party.’

    Opposite sides of the same coin, I fear. 🙁

    Another stellar article, admin.

    I pay my respects to all the veterans who have given their lives for this country.
    Can anyone imagine the BO thugs fighting for the US? I can’t.

  2. The meeting of the mindless at the whitehouse yesterday was a portrait of the failures that we the people inflict on our selves with the most precious weapon we have in life.Our single honest and precious right to a Vote. A vision of a failed president welcoming an unproved inexperienced and power hungry stranger to rock the cradle of our democracy.
    The scene provoked a vision of a great book title that i will always remember “Barbarians at the Gate”. I now return to my sad but also encouraging thoughts

    ” TO THINK WE COULD HAVE HAD HILLARY”

    BY ABM90

  3. Is Sarah Palin the Future of the GOP?
    November 11, 2008 7:39 AM

    Gov. Sarah Palin doesn’t want to get “Quayled.”

    Dan Quayle never got over the gaffes he made in the campaign when he ran for and became vice president in 1988.

    He became something of a national joke.

    Palin doesn’t want to let that image of her solidify in this post-election period.

    That’s why she’s doing a round of interviews this week and going down to Miami for the Republican Governors Association annual meeting later this week.

    She will appear on a panel on the future of the Republican Party called “Looking Toward the Future” and holding a major news conference.

    She is determined to make sure her image survives this campaign.

    But there are other Republicans looking to take the mantle of the Republican Party.

    There’s a vacuum of leadership at the top of the Republican Party right now.

    There’s Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, an Indian-American, who some people call the Republicans’ Barack Obama. You also have Gov. Charlie Crist down in Florida.

    This is a free-for-all for the leadership of the GOP — and Sarah Palin wants to be part of it.

    She’s certainly knocking on the door right now, checking to see if it’s locked.

    –George Stephanopoulos

  4. Georgia congressman warns of Obama dictatorship
    By BEN EVANS – 13 hours ago

    WASHINGTON (AP) — A Republican congressman from Georgia said Monday he fears that President-elect Obama will establish a Gestapo-like security force to impose a Marxist or fascist dictatorship.

    “It may sound a bit crazy and off base, but the thing is, he’s the one who proposed this national security force,” Rep. Paul Broun said of Obama in an interview Monday with The Associated Press. “I’m just trying to bring attention to the fact that we may — may not, I hope not — but we may have a problem with that type of philosophy of radical socialism or Marxism.”

    Broun cited a July speech by Obama that has circulated on the Internet in which the then-Democratic presidential candidate called for a civilian force to take some of the national security burden off the military.

    “That’s exactly what Hitler did in Nazi Germany and it’s exactly what the Soviet Union did,” Broun said. “When he’s proposing to have a national security force that’s answering to him, that is as strong as the U.S. military, he’s showing me signs of being Marxist.”

    ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iRxZox4GFoIweckPDP1oRhKBlHOwD94CCDU00

  5. “That’s exactly what Hitler did in Nazi Germany and it’s exactly what the Soviet Union did,” Broun said. “When he’s proposing to have a national security force that’s answering to him, that is as strong as the U.S. military, he’s showing me signs of being Marxist.”

    That is also Mao did in China

  6. “We can’t be lulled into complacency,” Broun said. “You have to remember that Adolf Hitler was elected in a democratic Germany. I’m not comparing him to Adolf Hitler. What I’m saying is there is the potential.”

    Obama’s transition office did not respond immediately to Broun’s remarks.

  7. On the previous post, I suggested a place for us to start to begin to clean up the mess we got here: elections.

    I thought we could find a way to hold hearings or dialog with all who will listen (the parties being too indebted to electoral chicanery to help — except for the mavericks) on electoral reform.

    I will repeat the ideas to think about:

    1. No more electoral college.
    2. No more caucuses — they are far more effective in keeping voters from voting than the poll tax.
    3. Voting by phone or computer.
    4. Alternatively — design a machine that cannot be scammed, will deliver a written copy, and will keep votes secret.
    5. Assign the number of voting machines by population, not neighbourhoods.
    6. Make it seriously illegal to add or subtract votes cast for any candidate.
    7. Make it seriously illegal to bribe or threaten a delegate to change his/her vote.

    When we’ve fixed the voting mess, we could then find candidates that we can back.

  8. What a great article!!! The depth and breadth of Admin’s knowledge never fails to amaze me. I’m forever being impressed.

    Thanks again, Admin!

  9. Gov.Palin: I admire you as a mother of five and a fine governor of AK and a lovely smart women but you have been victimized by the Repb.party and now left beside the road of political victims on their way to obscurity.You could never become another Hillary Rodham Clinton and I say that with sadness in my heart as one that understands the plight and frustrations of hard working and brilliant women and has observed the fears that our society of good old boys that guard their gravy train with their last breathes and resist any woman that invades their turf.Hillary has endured the worst that these politicians and the MSM can inflict on her.An election was stolen from her under our very eyes but she now stands tall an ready to serve this nation as the outstanding Senator from NY and she remains unscathed and in a new position of power and respect to save this nation from itself.BHO will be spending precious time trying to avoid the many questions that will be surfacing and need answers.The man from nowhere,the stranger trained and financed by the Chicago
    cesspool of foreign and local evil power merchants will be exposed and buyers remorse will become a reality that will bring him down.Then the country will turn to Hillary with a large cry for help and she will be there as she is now to to set the ship of state upright once again.

    BY ABM90 Honest and reasonable Americans Need you Hillary

  10. Thank you veterans for how courageous, and unselfishly you do protect and have protected our nation.

    Too bad that information on his personnel police force did not get publicized more by the press.

    This treatmemt of Palin by the Republican party is going to be very telling, just as this campaign has been telling. Hillary was elected, but denied the nomination by a fraudulent group within her party. Paline was selected by McCain. Both women were treated badly by the men and women of the Democratic Party. I had wondered how Paline would be treated by the Reps, win or lose. We are about to see.

  11. I remember in researching a family history, noticiing that in WWI Calvery actually mean still horses. In additon, some of those soldiers were exposed to gases in the field that contributed to early death. Of course we also know that the Viet Nam Vets have and are still suffering from Agemt Orange.

    The dangers they face are not only from the enemy, but what we use and put them in the field with. I remember seeing a lecture by engineers at Disney World. They shoot for a death rate on zero. Unfortunately, we don’t always put our service people in the field with equipment that has met that standard.

  12. Admi: You are always on the mark with your amazing ability to inform we the people when we have a Media in all catagories that believe the have all the answers but never reveal the question that need answered for us.The hidden agenda is their method of presenting false and frightening rigged news to keep us quiet and hungry for the truth about the state of our union.

    Congratulations and many thanks to our veterans on this special day.Each war we fight for is different and caused for different reasons. The suffering is always the same.

    By ABM90

  13. Admin, stellar as always.

    There is a saying, ‘All is fair in love and war.’ There is a reason for that saying. Sometimes, if your cause is just and reasoned, you have to do things that otherwise would be unspeakable during time of war.

    Think about it, what if this new selected President would only allow spies and enemy captures to be interrogated by drinking the Kool-Aide.lol. You must take measures to ensure a win, if a war is imminent -many brave generals and commanders have taken extraordinary steps to ensure they safety of their men and vitory. Some of these men are my heroes.

    If a war can not be avoided, America owes the brave military men and women the knowledge that it is to be won, not just begun.

    Thank you to all the brave military men and women of all our wars. And my Daddy, and underage WWII canonneer, is rolling over in his grave right now with the outcome of this election. May he and all others rest in peace.

  14. Just read on Yahoo news that Michelle called Hillary to get advice about raising kids in the White House. The article re-stated that Michelle isn’t a fan of Hillary’s but admired the way they raised Chelsea.

    I thought Michelle said that Hillary couldn’t take care of her household. This information is coming out now? Michelle said that she is a mom first, but it seems to me that she is terrified and trying to get all kinds of advice. Maybe her kids aren’t the angels that they are made to be in the media? Now the kids will be under a microscope and we willl see how MIchelle really handle her girls.

  15. Don’t be afraid of the fight. Don’t be afraid of the clash of ideas.

    —-

    Well said Admin!!!!

    This applies to Hillary and Sen. Bayh…

    Sen. Bayh should run again in 2012 against obama and Hillary should support him!!!!!! PERIOD!!!!!

  16. Thank you to all our brave and honorable veterans, for their service to protect our country.

    Admin: Another insightful and helpful article. You definitely have a way with words. I hope the Republicans take some of your advice. The dims certainly have not. Misogyny and sexism should be a common value shared by both political parties. If the Republicans recognize this, and try to reform their party, they may be able to attract more people to it.

  17. Paula and ShortTermer,

    I agree with you both. The Clintons have done a fine job with Chelsea and most people do realize that, friend or foe.

    Seems Michelle is awfully nervous to have to call on Hillary.

  18. ShortTermer,

    Forgot to say that under the circumstances with Michelle, Hillary is a better woman than I. I wouldn’t give MIchelle the time of day!

  19. As for that Michelle/Hillary story, truly sickening the way they used, abused, race baited, and demonized the Clintons,yet, now they want their advise and advisors.

  20. Happy Veterans Day, Remembrance Day, and Armistice Day in honor of those brave men and women around the world who have fought and continue to fight for our rights and freedoms.

  21. BTW, a poster on No Quarter mentioned just seeing a 2004 video of Brazile saying BO would be the Dem standard bearer in 2008. That just reinforces what we knew about the DNC wanting to screw over Hillary. The obstacles she faced were major, though she still could’ve won if her campaign had been run better early on. Solis-Doyle was a horrible choice, and cost HRC dearly.

  22. I’m thinking that M.O.’s children will have an elite nanny corp to take care of everything. Sightings will be only during opportune and carefully calculated/orchestrated politically favorable moments. 😉

  23. As one of the veterans, thanks Admin for recognizing our efforts and contribution to this country..

    Still, I could not believed what happened last GE….The people got fooled by this con artist..

    I think we have to move on……

  24. Agree with Paula…how can someone as brilliant as Hillary have chosen such a poor campaign team, who did not even realize the Obama threat until it was too late….

  25. I love Hillary but she picked Solis-Doyle because of her loyalty instead of her competence, and that was a major error. There also wasn’t enough thinking outside the box by her people. If HRC is fortunate enough to get another chance to run for president she’ll do much better, I’m sure of it.

  26. Obama Meets With Dangerous World Leader Without Preconditions:

    digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/11/obama-meets-with-dangerous-world-leader.html

  27. And I want to commend all our veterans for their sterling service to our country. We owe you a tremendous debt of gratitude.

  28. jbstonesfan – I’ve thought about that myself, and also that the Clinton campaign had no caucus strategy. that was the achilles heel which I’m sure Solis Doyle helped the BO campaign exploit. Though second hand, a friend who knows someone in Clinton’s inner circle, said that Clinton knew there was a mole in her campaign.

    I will say that BO ran a brilliantly ruthless campaign – full of fraud – and that was one thing not anticipated by Clinton and she didn’t anticipate the extremely biased coverage in Big Media which eventually brought down McCain and Palin too.

    Regardless, I believe in Clinton. She would be a great President.

  29. Everything by the waffles camp has been orchastrated. mo calling Senator Clinton to ask for advice on child rearing in the Whitehouse is I am sure a public relations stunt in an attempt to assuage her supporters.
    Read something from last nights post about it being our duty to get behind bambi. BWAHHAHAHAHA. NEVER.
    If the sovereign is cracked the sovereign does not exist.

  30. gonzotx Says:

    November 10th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
    meiyingsu Says:

    November 9th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
    pm317,

    Palin turned off a big trunk of independents and Hillary dems who voted.
    ************************************

    She turned ON quite a few also, this one included!
    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

    I too liked her, and would trust her, as veep, or prez. Much more than Obama. Palin is her own woman. Obama has been bought and sold.

    I don’t think that it was so much that “Palin turned off Indies and centrist Dems”, but more that the MSM relentless in doing a hit job on her:

    * really, really crazy extremist beliefs
    * can’t run a family (daughter pregnant, drunk hubby (20 year old DUI???), etc
    * doesn’t know Africa is a continent
    * she’s so unpolished that they had to “hide her”
    * she went AWOL without JM and campaign knowing
    * they couldn’t / wouldn’t investigate Obama’s “issues”, but Troopergate merited an immediate legal investigation, after which she was cleared
    * she a nouvea fashionista!

    The list goes on and on. She was treated to a whole different level of vetting and criticism and ridicule that none of the three main male candidates (JM, BO, JB) were subjected to. Just like the treatement Hillary got.

    So don’t blame Palin. The Obama campaign asked that their side of the story be told, and the media, who are in his pocket, obliged like the good little employees they are…not employees of their respective employers, but of the Obama campaign.

    And now they are “responsible for a successful Obama Administration”, according to Tweety. May he rot in hell.

  31. BO is responsible for a successful administration; not the networks or citizens of this country. He has to deliver.

  32. henry Says:

    November 11th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
    Everything by the waffles camp has been orchastrated. mo calling Senator Clinton to ask for advice on child rearing in the Whitehouse is I am sure a public relations stunt in an attempt to assuage her supporters.
    &&&&&&&&&

    He did that??? I’m sure he thinks it’s “charming”, and that he’s bring peace and utopia to DC, including making peace with the Clintons.

    They can give all the air kisses they want. Personally, I see it that he’s the World’s Worst User. If he shakes your hand, check your pockets for your wallet.

  33. rgb44hrc Says:

    November 11th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
    ================

    I like Paln better all the time. Finally saw a good long interview with Greta. The video is on the front page at teamsarah.

  34. rickya Says:

    November 11th, 2008 at 6:20 am

    birdgal Says:
    November 10th, 2008 at 10:21 am

    There was an article that I read yesterday, stating that Kennedy, who is head of the committee wants the full committee to work on it, and present it to President Obama (barf) for his signature. Senator Clinton is a junior senator and only ranks eighth on this committee. Kennedy is already working on it, which was announced earlier this year. He is one jealous person, who is quite full of himself.

    That may be, but I still think that they won’t be able to afford UHC because of the economic crisis. For them to be able to afford it, they would have to present a watered down version of universal healthcare. I think that Clinton should not touch it with a ten foot pole because this would only lend credibility to their work. She should be outside of the effort sniping and telling them what UHC should be about
    ===============

    Oooh, good POINT! Smaaaart Hillary! By asking for the subcomittee and getting publically slapped, she’s distanced herself from whatever they do — but not by ‘her’ choice….

  35. Speaking of John McCain, I agree with this comment from another board:

    tell ya….
    i hope that john mcain at some point shows even just a pinch of the respect and admiration towrds sarah palin that sarah has shown towards him since the election ended.
    she truely adores, and respects him and has been VERY vocal about it.
    the silence from john mcain is just amazingly deafening. What’s up with McCain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????

    ——————————————————————————————–

    I also agree with these comments. LOL!!!

    1. It was just on the news that some of the blue dog domocrats are already showing signs that they don’t agree with some of the policies that Obama wants to pass. This in fighting is going to be good. I wonder what Obama will use to threaten some of his own people with?! LOL

    2. I predict in the near future there won’t be too many willing to admit they voted for Obamanation…

  36. Hillary and Sarah should get together and have a real discussion of how the good ole boys club did everything they could to defeat them….they both came out stronger and more influential..unfortunately, at the cost of electing a false prophet.

  37. Hi old Hillary supporters,
    I am here & I am here everyday reading the posts & comments. Enjoying it quietly. There are millions who are like myself. Who come everyday here but they don’t leave much of a trace. Thanks admin for your marvellous work. You are fantastic!

  38. Secret, you’re right, there are a lot of us quietly enjoying the posts and comments…but you have the perfect name!

  39. Since Michelle O, says Hillary doesn’t know how to take care of her household, i would tell Michelle, figure it out yourself on how to raise your children. Also Hillary raised a beautiful young lady. Doesn’t mean Michelle can do the same. It comes from good STOCK

  40. jeleanoro,
    Thanks for your compliments. Yes, I like my name:) I am an ardent Hillary supporter & a passionate Obama opposer. I am not a Republican. I am a clinton democrat. So, I guess now I will prefer to be independent!!

  41. Amen, Michelle!

    Even the Republicans who didn’t like the Clintons did have good praise of Chelsea! Said she was always polite to them. You know the Clintons did a good job if even Michelle herself had to acknowledge that.

    Curious to see how the Obama kids turn out to be.

  42. rickya Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 5:08 am

    Gezahegn Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 4:01 am Therefore, for all of us, the right thing to do for the good of America and for the good of the world is to unite behind behind the man upon whom God (this is beyond man’s work) bestowed the presidency.
    ———-

    rickya said:
    I disagree. The right thing to do for the good of America is to put Obama’s feet to the fire. He is poised to throw under the bus a lot of the things that the Democrats have been fighting for – all for his own glorification. He cannot be trusted to fight for Democratic values. It is up to us to make sure that he delivers.
    ===============

    Luckily, supporting Obama’s campaing issues (some of htem) IS holding his feet to the fire.

    Keeping expectations up can be seen as support.

  43. Gezahegn Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 4:01 am Therefore, for all of us, the right thing to do for the good of America and for the good of the world is to unite behind behind the man upon whom God (this is beyond man’s work) bestowed the presidency.

    And I guess God bestowed Stalin, Hitler, Saddam Hussein Castro, chavez and every other tyrant.

  44. I am not about to start supporting a man who sheds skins like there is no tomorrow, a man who lied, cheated and stole his way to the Oval Office, and above all, a man who treated Hillary like she was a piece of lint he could flick off his mob-bought suit.

  45. I am so busy right now, that I have to work reading His44 in between chores.
    I have good news. I am going to be one of the Founding Mothers in the Founding Chapter of the new women’s national organization – an organization for those of us not included in present day national organizations. The first meeting will be next Monday here in Central Florida with another meeting to follow in a couple of weeks. Hopes are that there will be chapters in all fifty states before all is done and said. I may post what happens in the meeting if anything interesting happens.
    This is a way to channel my anger over this election, and to do positive things that will help our country. The website is under construction, but the blog just went live with its first article. The blog is blog.theamericanwoman.org.
    I am about to go there and post.

  46. # Paula Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    CountTheVotes, So Hillary knew she had a mole in her campaign? Wow.
    ****
    yes. but take it with a tiny grain of salt. I think my source is a good one.

  47. hwc,

    Was it you saying Summers was a ‘lame duck’ appointee as Clinton’s Sec of Treasury?

    Anyway, he was appointed by Clinton in 1993 as Under Secretary and high in the Treasury throughout the Clinton administration:

    Summers was confirmed as under secretary of the Treasury in 1993 “at the start of the Clinton administration. He was confirmed then and two more times, as deputy and then as secretary.” [ per NYT]

  48. Admin:….beautiful videos: your utter creavity amid all the fair and balanced reporting has been superb!!!!
    —–
    “Where have all the flowers gone”….

    “They have all wilted away in this autumn(fall) air….and there is no sight of the next blossom”…the only forecast is harsh, dim, cold, bitter…..perhaps the next blossom will be when the tears of the brave may nourish the new seedlings!!!!

  49. Maybe I’m just tired … but my emotional feeling is that with the court challenges and requesting investigataions etc we are just wasting ammunition that would better be kept dry for use later.

    Nobody in authority is going to do anything with it now. Any issue we force, they will dismiss. If the GOP takes back Congress next election, then maybe they would do something — if we don’t wear out the subjects now.

    I feel like letting old, complicated, negative subjects drop for a while; let Obama make NEW mistakes and NEW enemies. Then when public opinion swings, then add our ammunition to the wave.

    For one thing, on primary fraud issues, right now the Clintons would have to defend him. Maybe by 2012 when it really counts, they would be more free to let him sink on his own.

  50. Like I said, noted sexist woman-basher Larry Summers was appointed the lame-duck Treasury Secretary.

    On onother note, I would also point out that Obama advisor Colin Powell and Defense transition team leader Sam Nunn are major homophobes and worked together to lead the fight against Clinton on gays serving the military.

    What next from Obama? The grand wazoo of the KKK as his Attorney General?

  51. For one thing, on primary fraud issues, right now the Clintons would have to defend him. Maybe by 2012 when it really counts, they would be more free to let him sink on his own.

    I hate to tell ya this, but the Clintons have been put out to pasture. Do you think anyone in the Democratic Party wants to keep them around after stabbing them in the backs?

  52. i agree to no mtrush.he will never be put there.geez louise they would have to scuplt liar on His forhead …and i will never uspport him..
    and this crap with hillary getting a call from michelle..what kind of people who call up someone oh how do you raise the kids in a white house…well the kids are suppose to have a normal growing up..if there parents serve…Y a still wont get voters to change to obamadimocrats.. MO.they donmt know jack crap and i wonder to who is behind the wall in the oval office giving orders to obama.

  53. ABM90 justmeinmountdorafl

    I disagree, after they have the honoray day off, and the parties, they will start saving to put his face here. I have lost faith that this democracy will stop a fraud.

  54. 11-11-08

    In Honor of

    James Luther L______, killed 12-24-44, on the edge of a forest, waiting to move into Germany via Belgum.

    and his father, Luther James L______ who bravely drove an ambulance in France for two years, was gassed 3 times, and medically discharged in 1918…recalled to service in 1942 and was headquarted 30 miles from his first born son when said son was killed 12-24-44. He did not return to US soil until after Germany surrendered. and lived to almost 100.

    I often pray the father found his son in 1998 and that they saluted each other.

  55. Emjay, here you are, you said something yesterday about me and the wrath of this site, can you explain? Hope you are well.

  56. Basil: I wrote the other Native American Phrophesies. This one was written by my friend who is a tribal elder. This is so appropos of my point that this society really needs to listen to the wise woman, priestess, Hillary. Instead, we trash them. My friend M is a member of that same elite group. There is wisdom in these words:
    ——————————————–
    THE THIRD PROPHESY: FROM A TIME OF SECRETS TO A TIME WHEN ALL IS KNOWN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    In Native tradition, knowledge is power and power demands personal responsibility. Power can reveal to each of us an ability to respond we did not previously realize we had or it can burn us and even destroy us. For many, this election has become a quest for knowledge and growth; both personal and collective. We have had to witness events we found hard to believe, leaders making choices we did not agree with and often could not understand. The internet is perhaps the most literal evidence of the times when all will be known. However, the rate of knowledge, or that which is known is revealing itself at exponential rates, so much so that it is becoming easier and easier to “hide” intent and wrongdoing in “plain sight’ and have it go unnoticed.

    If those of us who value the ideals of freedom first grasped by the formation of this country and want those values to survive and even thrive, we must find a way to use our numbers more effectively.

    The Prophesies of my people predict a time of the return of the great council fire. In our tradition the council fire was literally a place of great energy and wisdom. People gathered and by sharing ideas and wisdom they created new directions and possibilities that were beyond the reach of any one individual member. Our current House of Representatives and Senate is based upon this concept. However, in the traditions of the true council fire, each member was expected to reflect the truth they carried and not break the trust placed in them by the people. Our prophesies told of the time when the council fires would be distinguished. And for the people of our tribes this indeed has come to pass.

    Many of our elders believe the growing darkness of these times signals the readiness for the kindling of a new council fire and with it the possibilities of harmony and peace for all living creatures.

    We are a group of highly motivated and capable individuals who are teeming with knowledge and concern and are struggling to find an appropriate and productive direction. Perhaps we can use our talent and energy to kindle the council fire that is so badly needed, and if so, we can help to light the way for the next seven generations. We are standing in darkness and our next step will take faith, good heart and much cooperation to create that fire. If we can find an effective way to communicate what we find and what we know to be important many will be drawn by our fire to listen. Our fires will grow in numbers and together we can work our way out of this darkness and into the light.

  57. I’ll place my bet on the “Brazile Nut” to succeed the “Screamon Deanmon”

    DNC Chief Dean to Step Down
    Move Would Clear Way for Appointment of an Obama Loyalist

    By Chris Cillizza
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Tuesday, November 11, 2008; Page A06

    Former Vermont governor Howard Dean will not seek a second term as chairman of the Democratic National Committee, a committee spokeswoman said yesterday, clearing the way for a loyalist of President-elect Barack Obama to be named to the soon-to-be-vacant post.

    “Governor Dean has been honored to serve as chairman of the Democratic Party for the past four years and is very proud of the work our party has done and that, in Barack Obama, we have a leader who is committed to reaching out to people in all 50 states. Governor Dean looks forward to the next challenge — whatever that may be — when his tenure ends in January,” said DNC communications director Karen Finney.

    After a failed presidential bid in 2004, Dean took over the DNC with the controversial mission of building credible political operations in all 50 states. Grass-roots — and net-roots — activists, who propelled Dean’s presidential bid and helped get him elected party chairman, embraced the strategy. But the party’s Washington political establishment bristled at using resources in deeply Republican states such as Mississippi and Idaho, insisting the money was better spent in places where Democrats were more likely to win.

    In time, Dean won over many skeptics, including former president Bill Clinton, in part because of a series of special House election wins in conservative strongholds such as northern Mississippi and Baton Rouge. A DNC memo released after last week’s presidential election, in which Obama won in some states where Democrats had not won in decades, detailed Dean’s accomplishments and noted that “when Obama became the nominee there were 183 people on the ground who have been there, been trained, and were working for the nominee” as a result of the 50-state strategy.

    “Because of Governor Dean’s efforts, our party is stronger today than it was four years ago,” said Stephanie Cutter, a spokeswoman for the Obama transition team. “He recognized the importance of reaching out to people in all 50 states, empowering people at the grass-roots level and rebuilding the infrastructure of the party.”

    Said consultant Donna Brazile: “Dean became chairman at a time the party was divided and incredibly demoralized after a stinging defeat in 2004. Not only did [he] have to work to convince party leaders that his 50-state strategy was the best method to achieve victory in 2006, he planted seeds of hope in laying the foundation for the party’s reemergence as a national party in 2008.”

    Dean’s name has come up as a possible choice to lead the Department of Health and Human Services in Obama’s administration.

    The next chairman of the DNC will be chosen at the group’s winter meeting early next year by the more than 400 committee members. Possible replacements for Dean include Brazile, Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius and DNC Secretary Alice Germond. Missouri Sen. Claire McCaskill and Virginia Gov. Timothy M. Kaine — both close Obama allies — are also considered possibilities, but sources close to each said they are not likely to be interested in the job.

    Those familiar with the DNC’s operations said the committee may also consider a structural reorganization along the lines of how it operated during the presidential campaign, in which Dean served as the general chairman and Obama field director Paul Tewes handled day-to-day management.

    Despite the party’s recent successes, many Democratic leaders remained critical of Dean for what they said was a lack of attention to key issues, such as fundraising.

    The DNC consistently struggled to keep up with its Republican counterpart even as the Democratic House and Senate committees built huge financial leads over the GOP in advance of the 2008 election. As of Oct. 15, the Republican National Committee had raised nearly $337 million in the 2008 election while the DNC had raised just over $206 million.

    Others questioned what they described as Dean’s on-again, off-again involvement in the 2008 presidential primary process, which was marked by an extended public fight over the nominating calendar.

    “He did not position the DNC in a way in which it probably could have been most effective during the primaries,” said one Democratic strategist familiar with the inner workings of the committee. “He took a much more passive role and it hurt them in terms of the presidential primary process.”

    At times, disagreements over Dean’s stewardship of the DNC became public. Reports following one particularly contentious meeting between Dean and newly installed White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel in the spring of 2006 — when Emanuel was chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee — described the Illinois congressman as spewing invective as he stomped out of the gathering.

    Terence R. McAuliffe, who preceded Dean as chairman, praised the former Vermont governor’s performance. “He handled it great,” McAuliffe said. “He has done everything expected of the DNC chair. These are tough jobs.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/10/AR2008111003027.html?sub=AR

  58. I hate to tell ya this, but the Clintons have been put out to pasture. Do you think anyone in the Democratic Party wants to keep them around after stabbing them in the backs?
    ———————————————-
    ABM 90 has got it right. Here is the fundamental problem Bambi has:

    The most fundamental choice he will face is philosophical and directional. As one writer put it he has two choices: one choice is to move center left and reestablish the social compact of a modern New Deal, as Hillary proposed. The other path is to establish a soft Democratic Party Corporatism founded on free market economics and social liberalism. Whichever one he chooses has the potential to split his coalition. Why? Because the hard left wants to expand the role of government (well beyond anything Hillary envisioned) and diminish the power of big business whereas his corporate mentors want the very opposite and will remind him of his commitment to free trade. The question is whether the hard left will be satisfied with the symbolism of a black president who pursues business as usual, or will insist substantive change (as opposed to cosmetic change). They will find out in the process whom he really is. Access without influence is hollow shibboleth.

    Hillary has just released a series of bills she will be working on as a US Senator and will put pressure on Bambi to live up to his promises. By doing everthing they asked her to do in the primaries she is bullet proof from criticism. She did not want to be vp, she does not want to go on the supreme court, secretary of state, governor of New York or any other scheme to get her out of the way. She is rebuilding her coalition. This is chess not poker.

    The best part of it is he CANNOT live up to all his promises, but she will hold them to those that relate to the Roosevelt tradition. He will be pulled in the opposite direction by his corporate masters. It will split his coaltion. Plus, he will have the weight of running the world on his shoulders and fucking that up too. And dont forget Allinskys rules work both ways and Hillary studied them as a college student as well:

    RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity’s very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)

  59. wbboei Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 9:39 pm

    I hate to tell ya this, but the Clintons have been put out to pasture. Do you think anyone in the Democratic Party wants to keep them around after stabbing them in the backs?
    ———————————————-
    ABM 90 has got it right. Here is the fundamental problem Bambi has:
    **************
    I would also add that the financial sh*t storm that is headed our way is un-fixable…it’s going to have to run it’s own course…there isn’t enough money to bail out of this mess…the banks alone are >$ 1 trillion in the hole…I don’t think they have clue about the auto industry..it is a bottomless financial pit but if GM goes under 2.7 million jobs go with it..and on and on….

  60. Wbboei,
    Very interesting.
    ‘Basil: I wrote the other Native American Phrophesies. This one was written by my friend who is a tribal elder.’
    One of my (unpublished ) novels is called the Firekeepers.

    Could you contact me, please. (Do you still have my addy?)

    I will check in tomorrow morning.

  61. Here’s our girl!

    On a conference call with reporters, the New York Senator suggests she’ll have the ear of Obama’s new chief of staff, a former staffer in her husband’s White House.

    Asked if Emanuel will be accessible to New Yorkers, she replies slyly: “He’s going to be accessible to me.”
    —————————————
    There is a tide in the affairs of men
    Which taken at the flood leads on to fortune
    Omitted all the voyage of their life
    Is bound in shallows and in miseries
    On such a full sea are we now afloat
    And we must take the current WHEN it serves

    Shakespeare (Julius Caesar, Part IV, iii, 217)

  62. on bambis chief of staff being accessible to hillary
    —————————————
    There is a tide in the affairs of men
    Which taken at the flood leads on to fortune
    Omitted all the voyage of their life
    Is bound in shallows and in miseries
    On such a full sea are we now afloat
    And we must take the current WHEN it serves

    Shakespeare (Julius Caesar, Part IV, iii, 217)

  63. Shenannigans: thanks for posting the piece about obamas chief of staff being “accessible” to hillary.

    I tried to post the quote from shakespeare about a tide in the affairs of men (in this case women), taken at the flood leads to fortune, on such a sea are we now afloat, and (she) must take the current WHEN it serves.

    It would not post but that was the gist of it/

  64. CJ Says:

    November 11th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
    Sarah said on greta she is calling hillary tommorrow lol..good I hope they become best friends..lol..
    —————————————–
    Its not unlikely. As a matter of fact, I think it will happen. Just a hunch.

  65. I would like to know bambis position of this one. The hard left part of his coalition should be demanding to know. And so should big media.
    —————————————–
    Bloomberg News has sued the federal government demanding that Treasury chief Henry Paulson disclose the names of the banks and other companies that are receiving emergency loans.

    Bloomberg reported on Monday: “The Federal Reserve is refusing to identify the recipients of almost $2 trillion of emergency loans from American taxpayers or the troubled assets the central bank is accepting as collateral.

    “Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson said in September they would comply with congressional demands for transparency in a $700 billion bailout of the banking system. Two months later, as the Fed lends far more than that in separate rescue programs that didn’t require approval by Congress, Americans have no idea where their money is going or what securities the banks are pledging in return.

    “Bloomberg News has requested details of the Fed lending under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act and filed a federal lawsuit Nov. 7 seeking to force disclosure.”

    Michelle Smith, a spokeswoman for the Federal Reserve — the actual target of the lawsuit — declined to comment on the loans or the Bloomberg suit.

    Matthew Winkler, editor-in-chief of Bloomberg News, said: “The American taxpayer is entitled to know the risks, costs and methodology associated with the unprecedented government bailout of the U.S. financial industry.”

  66. DULCE ET DECORUM EST1

    Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
    Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
    Till on the haunting flares2 we turned our backs
    And towards our distant rest3 began to trudge.
    Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
    But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
    Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots4
    Of tired, outstripped5 Five-Nines6 that dropped behind.

    Gas!7 Gas! Quick, boys! – An ecstasy of fumbling,
    Fitting the clumsy helmets8 just in time;
    But someone still was yelling out and stumbling,
    And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime9 . . .
    Dim, through the misty panes10 and thick green light,
    As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
    In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
    He plunges at me, guttering,11 choking, drowning.

    If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
    Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
    And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
    His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
    If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
    Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
    Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud12
    Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,
    My friend, you would not tell with such high zest13
    To children ardent14 for some desperate glory,
    The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
    Pro patria mori.15

    8 October 1917 – March, 1918

  67. DULCE ET DECORUM EST

    Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
    Knock-kneed, coughing like hags,
    We cursed through sludge,
    Till on the haunting flares
    We turned our backs
    And towards our distant rest
    Began to trudge.
    Men marched asleep.
    Many had lost their boots
    But limped on, blood-shod.
    All went lame; all blind;
    Drunk with fatigue;
    deaf even to the hoots
    Of tired, outstripped
    Five-Nines that dropped behind.

    Gas! Gas! Quick, boys!
    An ecstasy of fumbling,
    Fitting the clumsy helmets
    Just in time;
    But someone still was yelling
    Out and stumbling,
    And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime
    Dim, through the misty panes
    And thick green light,
    As under a green sea,
    I saw him drowning.
    In all my dreams,
    before my helpless sight,
    He plunges at me,
    guttering, choking, drowning.

    If in some smothering dreams
    You too could pace
    Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
    And watch the white eyes
    Writhing in his face,
    His hanging face,
    Like a devil’s sick of sin;
    If you could hear,at every jolt,
    The blood come gargling
    From the froth-corrupted lungs,
    Obscene as cancer,
    Bitter as the cud
    Of vile, incurable sores
    On innocent tongues,

    My friend, you would not tell
    With such high zest
    To children
    Ardent for some desperate glory,
    THAT OLD LIE—-
    DULCE ET DECORUM EST
    PRO PATRIA MORI
    (i.e. sweet is it to die for one’s country)

    Wilfred Owen
    8 October 1917 – March, 1918

  68. The meeting of the mindless at the whitehouse yesterday was a portrait of the failures that we the people inflict on our selves with the most precious weapon we have in life.Our single honest and precious right to a Vote. A vision of a failed president welcoming an unproved inexperienced and power hungry stranger to rock the cradle of our democracy.
    The scene provoked a vision of a great book title that i will always remember “Barbarians at the Gate”. I now return to my sad but also encouraging thoughts

    ” TO THINK WE COULD HAVE HAD HILLARY”

    BY ABM90
    —————————————–
    Well put ABM90: tonight our hats are off to you and your generation for defending our country. I just hope that my generation and the ones that come after do not ruin what you guys put your lives on the line to preserve. All we can do is keep telling them the truth over and over again and hoping someday they will get wise.

  69. Transparecy is a good thing. I still do not know what person or group of people selected the fraud and decided he must be president and then got the press to go along. Who besides soros. In other words the simple question journalists used to ask way back in the mists of time when they were . . . . . . . . . journalists: who, when, what, why, where and how?

  70. I had a grandfather who was in the American Expeditionary Force in World War I under Black Jack Pershing–a mediocre general. He spent time in the trenches where his feet froze and created disability. He never got gassed but he did get a german bayonnette in the stomach. It wasnt until I was 8 years old that I learnd that the scar he showed us was from a surgeon.

    Wilfred Owens desription above was graphic but true. The problem military planners faced in the War To End All Wars was mobility. Both sides were pinned down in trenches behind barbed wire and separted by no mans land. The solutions they came up with the machine gun (maxim gun) the tank and gas.

    People today forget how heavy the casualities were. In the Battle of the Somme alone–450 thousand dead or casualties. Europe was turned into a charnal house. If you go to Paris, they will show you the Tomb of Napoleon in the Invalides district and then the will show you Fouche. He was the arcitect of the slaughter. He studied Franco Prussian War and concluded that Prussia won was because she was more aggressive. So French military doctrine evolved accordingly. But aggressive was no match for the maxim gun.

  71. I would also add that the financial sh*t storm that is headed our way is un-fixable…it’s going to have to run it’s own course…there isn’t enough money to bail out of this mess…the banks alone are >$ 1 trillion in the hole…I don’t think they have clue about the auto industry..it is a bottomless financial pit but if GM goes under 2.7 million jobs go with it..and on and on….
    ——————————————
    Yes. Tulip bulbs. I could kill these free traders. What future is there for US auto makers when we have given away our trade secrets and other countries can now produce a car for under $10,000. Enter the Messiah. He can go tell the UAW that he will be behing them all the way (pushing), then he can tell the banks that he will bail them out in the sweet bye and bye, and then he can send goolsbee to the Forbidden City and whisper in the Premiers ear not to believe anything bambi says because it is just for public consumption. I will drink to that.

  72. “People today forget how heavy the casualities were. In the Battle of the Somme alone–450 thousand dead or casualties. Europe was turned into a charnal house.”
    **************
    A similar situation with WWII. The American public has never appreciated the number of casualties inflicted on the German Army by the Red Army and the number of casualties that they sustained. IIRC > 300 German divisions went into Russia and none came back intact.

  73. A similar situation with WWII. The American public has never appreciated the number of casualties inflicted on the German Army by the Red Army and the number of casualties that they sustained. IIRC > 300 German divisions went into Russia and none came back intact.
    ——————————————-
    They lost alot of soldiers at Stalingrad when Paulus surrendered the 6th army. But they inflicted 17 million deaths on the Russians. I will bet if you looked at it the Germans killed 2-3 times more red army soldiers. But the Russians had do many more troops. General Zukoff who commanded the Russian Army was a butcher. He used troops as pure cannon fodder. Manstein was a better general than Zukoff. He used space to great advantage whereas other generals would dig in which is not a good plan when dealing with a larger enemy. But Hitler retired him over some perceived slight. The title of his book Lost Victories gives you a sense of what he thought of it. At the end of the war a half million German troops were paraded through Moscow, and were sent to the uranium mines in Siberia and were never heard from again.

  74. “But they inflicted 17 million deaths on the Russians. I will bet if you looked at it the Germans killed 2-3 times more red army soldiers.”
    ************
    IIRC, 80% of German casualties were inflicted by the Red Army and 80% of total Allied casualties were sustained by the Russians.

  75. Excuse me but does anyone remember that brilliant trade that Pres. Bush negotiated with India and we were giving them weapons or nuclear secrets or something and they would give us mangos?

    Where are the mangos?

  76. IIRC, 80% of German casualties were inflicted by the Red Army and 80% of total Allied casualties were sustained by the Russians.
    ——————————————-
    I do not doubt that. But I suspect the Red Army was larger so in terms of raw numbers the Russian losses were much higher. I have not seen the raw numbers but I would be surprised if that was not true. Also, Hitler like Napoleon before him underestimated the depredations of the Russian winter. Do you know what the actual losses were in terms of raw numbers. I saw them for th Civil War and they were over a million casualties on both sides but they were higher on the Union side because they had more men in the conflict.

  77. paging idunn…

    Are you connected with The New Agenda? I just submitted this at their site:

    I am a PUMA because I supported HIllary. I supported Hillary because she and Bill did a good job in the 90s. They appointed Summers and he was a big part of their economic success.

    Before attacking the CLINTON’s Treasury appointee who cleaned up after Bush Sr and did a good job with bailouts — PLEASE look into this more carefully. Please let’s attack some bot candidate instead.

    Summers was up for confirmation hearings several times as he worked his way up through the Treasury after Clinton appointed him in 1993 (as Under Secretary iirc). The 1991 memo was an issue then but Bill wasn’t worried (imo the memo was satire).

    Accusations of ‘abrasive personality’ didn’t keep Bill from promoting Summers throughout the Clinton administration.

    This ‘innate differences’ thing happened in 2005, but it is neo-lib nonsense — like saying Gore claimed he invented the internet, or Ferraro and the Clintons made ‘racially insensitive’ remarks, or Palin ‘thought Africa was a country.’

    Restoring the Clinton cabinet is a GOOD thing for the country. Let’s not give the bots an excuse to sabotage it.

    For my own PUMA credentials — see my old blog begun last fall, 1950democrat.livejournal.com; and my later web pages ironmyvote.com begun early 2008; turndownobama.com begun May 2008; PumaResponders.com begun this summer. I’ve been posting for months on Hillaryis44.org and from their beginnings on clintondems.com, bitterpoliticz, pumapac.org, etc, as 1950democrat and later as turndownobama-com.

    I’ve started a diary at clintondems.com supporting Summers.

  78. wbboei said: In other words the simple question journalists used to ask way back in the mists of time when they were . . . . . . . . . journalists: who, when, what, why, where and how?
    ===========

    Who, what, when, where, why — and cui bono.

  79. # wbboei Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 10:36 pm

    Shenannigans: thanks for posting the piece about obamas chief of staff being “accessible” to hillary.

    I tried to post the quote from shakespeare about a tide in the affairs of men (in this case women), taken at the flood leads to fortune, on such a sea are we now afloat, and (she) must take the current WHEN it serves.

    It would not post but that was the gist of it/
    ===========

    EMail me a copy? I’d like to read it, and maybe I could get it to post.

  80. wbboei Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
    ===========

    RIGHT! Sounds like what Admin was saying about keeping BO’s feet to the fire.

  81. hwc Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
    ==========

    Bill Clinton appointed Summers as Under Secretary of the Treasury in 1993. He went through confirmation hearings then and again when he was promoted to deputy and then to Secretary. THroughout Bill’s administration, Summers was high in the team that cleaned up after Bush Sr.

    Bill had confidence in Summers to keep promoting him and defending him in all these hearings.

    I trust Bill’s judgement there.

  82. hwc Says: Obama advisor Colin Powell and Defense transition team leader Sam Nunn are major homophobes and worked together to lead the fight against Clinton on gays serving the military.
    ================

    Okay, Powell is who we should be bashing: a non-PC who fouled up in his previous job — rather than Summers who did very well in his previous job as CLINTON’s appointee in the Treasury 1993-2000.

  83. hwc,

    From h t t p : / / http://www.ustreas.gov/education/history/secretaries/lhsummers.shtml

    As undersecretary and deputy secretary of the Treasury, Summers worked closely with Secretaries Bentsen and Rubin in formulating domestic and international economic policies. He played a key role in designing the United States support program for Mexico in the wake of its 1995 financial crisis and in crafting the international response to the Asian financial crisis of 1997. As deputy secretary, Summers was also instrumental in the introduction of indexed Treasury debt securities, and in the reform of the Internal Revenue Service. When President Clinton appointed Summers as secretary of the Treasury, he called Summers “a critical part of our economic team during the entire life of this administration.”

    During Summers’s tenure as secretary of the Treasury, the United States used budget surpluses to repurchase Treasury debt for the first time since the 1920’s, and extended the life of the Social Security and Medicare trust funds. Summers led efforts to modernize the financial system, extend financial privacy protections, provide for digital signatures, and insure the viability of the over-the-counter derivatives market. Summers also championed reforms to address corporate tax shelters and predatory lending practices.

  84. I know I’ll get blasted for this…but I’m pleased he picked Summers. People say and do all kinds of ignorant, hateful shit, but right now my main concern is not losing my house, so yeah…I’m willing to overlook Summers attitudes towards women.

    For now.

  85. OOps…that should have read “I’m glad he’s considering Summers”. Guess in my mind, I think it’s a done deal already.

  86. hwc; I disagree with your statement that the Clintons have been put out to pasture to be forgotten.On the contrary I say what a grand pasture they will again roam freely and welcomed by all leaders of this troubled world The entire globe is once again their domain where they are respected and apreciated.During the current campaign they were swiftly and effectivly put into a box by BHO and his constant waving of the race card.He truly is a Manchurian Candidate .Nurtured from chilhood by hate filled Kenyans.His hatred was embellished by 20 yrs of religious guidance at the music and dancing temple of white haters led by Jeramiah Wright and Rev. Pfleger.Embellish all that with Political science of theft and deception by The Rezko mob and you have our new president elect ready with his hope and change emotional shouts to his herd of empowered fools.If you want to solve the mystery of this novice and and believe that he is your chosen one just look into his eyes as he reads from his ever present telepromter and you will see the darkness of his soul and intentions to control not lead.
    By contrast look into the eyes of Hillary and you see honesty love of country compassion understanding our needs and above all the fire that inspires her fight for our precious Constitution.Her time will come when the people of this country wake to the din and roar of “THE BARBARIANS AT OUR GATES”

    BY ABM90 It is all about the eyes. the vessels of our souls.

  87. Idunn says: I know I’ll get blasted for this…but I’m pleased he picked Summers. People say and do all kinds of ignorant, hateful shit, but right now my main concern is not losing my house, so yeah…I’m willing to overlook Summers attitudes towards women.

    For now.

    ================

    Yes, even in a worst case, it’s more important to save the economy.

    But I’m not even sure Summers has bad attitudes toward women. We’ve seen misrepresentations of statements by Gore, Ferraro, the Clintons. The Jan 2005 thing by Summers (at http://www.president.harvard.edu/speeches/2005/nber.html) is as convoluted as Gore’s internet statement, but much longer. Picking out soundbytes from it is like proving anything by the Bible, or quoting bits of the DNC rules and rulings on FL/MI.

    For one thing, Bill Clinton would have noticed if Summers had such attitudes, in the years beginning 1993 when he kept appointing Summers on up the Treasury ladder and defending him at confirmation hearings each time.

    My diary at Clintodems.com about this is
    h t t p : / / clintondems.com/2008/11/restore-bill-clintons-secretary-of-the-treasury-larry-summers/
    and I’ll go on adding info there as I find it.

  88. turndownobama-com Says:

    November 12th, 2008 at 6:40 am
    # wbboei Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 10:36 pm

    Shenannigans: thanks for posting the piece about obamas chief of staff being “accessible” to hillary.

    I tried to post the quote from shakespeare about a tide in the affairs of men (in this case women), taken at the flood leads to fortune, on such a sea are we now afloat, and (she) must take the current WHEN it serves.

    It would not post but that was the gist of it/
    ===========

    EMail me a copy? I’d like to read it, and maybe I could get it to post.
    ———————————
    thanks turndown. It finally did post–twice in fact at 10:20 above.

  89. During a conversation with a neighbor this morning about the election I mentioned that had it not been for the caucas fraud and the disproportionate distribution of delegates to “loyal” democrat districts Hillary would have had it in the bag. She was skeptical about the fraud but astonished to learn that her vote counted for less. Anyone know of a site I could send her way to verify? I had not known about that either prior to this cycle and I have to say it pisses me off as well.

  90. As admin says, our job is to confront Obama at every turn: i) force Obama to live up to all his promises (see Alinsky Rule 4), ii) when he fails to live up to a promise highlight the fact and go viral with it, iii) write legislation based on Obama’s promises and force him to reject his own proposals or implement them, vi) protest when he deploys police state methods to accomplish his goals, iv) highlight the caucus fraud research by Dr. Lynette Long, v) support Lynn de Rothschild, vi) demand an end to signing statements and discreet legislation, vii) when Obama submits his budget requests for hundreds of billions of dollars for the Iraq War – mock him – as a traitor to Move-on and DailyKooks, viii) watch Obama like a hawk and remember he cannot be trusted—not now; not ever, ix) treat him like a god that failed and x) read Hillaryis44 for the brilliant analysis Admin always provides.

    Furthermore, we must watch everything Hillary does as a Senator on a state and national level. We must remember that her trajectory and his have an inverse correlation. When he is up she is down and when he is down she is up. If these were halcyon times that matrix would favor him since he has the bully pulpit. But these are difficult times ergo the matrix favors her. The benighted press will be forced to confront him and he will be on the hot seat. Hillary on the other hand will be able to manage the press in a way she could never do as a candidate. As a prominent Senator at a time when the country needs answers, they will be forced to treat her differently. Despite her relatively junior seniority status, I am convinced that she will rise quickly in the Senate to a position of strategic leadership. Her influence with the electorate specifically women, working people and Hispanics will grow as their needs become acute, and Obama is seen as A God That Failed.

    Obama will try to control the dialogue through his text messaging pyramids targeting press and Capitol Hill. We can do that too. The name of the game is accountability. The welfare of our nation hangs in the balance.

  91. During a conversation with a neighbor this morning about the election I mentioned that had it not been for the caucas fraud and the disproportionate distribution of delegates to “loyal” democrat districts Hillary would have had it in the bag. She was skeptical about the fraud but astonished to learn that her vote counted for less. Anyone know of a site I could send her way to verify? I had not known about that either prior to this cycle and I have to say it pisses me off as well

    —————————————-
    Dr Lynette Long site. You can google it Henry. Also the City Edition article that explains how Rove and Gogzilla conspired to rig the caucuses.

  92. Turndown. Poetic justice that a man who cannot hold a policy position for longer than five minutes should now be called upon to do so now because the proverbial buck stops in his office. This is not at all the way his mind works. He will be an interestig subject for behaviorialists, psychiatrists and political scientists who are doing advanced clinical studies on the peter principle.

  93. Woops, Google seems to be back to ‘guilty till proven innocent.’ I was setting up a blog at blogspot and suddenly they have blocked it before I even put anything in it!

    So where’s next best for a free blog?

  94. wbboei,

    Yes, peter principle. He keeps kicking himself further upstairs, further away from accountability — like to his neighbors in Rezko’s slums, who could have actually knocked on his door or protested on his doorstep.

    Soon, if not already, his sights will be on Figurehead of the World. Maybe he will expand his movement worldwide to make an alternative to the UN.

  95. Obama Not Garnering Financial Confidence Internationally
    by Donald Lambro

    WASHINGTON — The U.S. economy is shrinking, unemployment is at its highest level since 1994, manufacturing is at its lowest point in 26 years — and Barack Obama is pushing a stimulus bill to rebuild bridges and roads.

    Whatever the long-term infrastructure needs of the nation may be, we are not going to pull this economy out of its hole with a bunch of government public-works projects. The question is, did Obama’s economic advisers tell him that?

    If they did, that wasn’t what he told the American people last Saturday after meeting with his 20-member advisory team. Instead, he went before the TV cameras and called on Congress to move ahead on a so-called “stimulus” package hatched by House Democrats that has very little, if any, economic stimulus in it. A better name for it would be a “status quo” plan.

    Here’s some of what this plan contains: a 13-week extension of unemployment benefits, more money for food stamps and billions in federal infrastructure projects and funding for state Medicaid costs to help poor-to-low-income people. There was also maybe $50 billion for cash-strapped automakers to encourage them to build more fuel-efficient vehicles.

    Let’s say all of these things need to be done. They will not, in and of themselves, create a single job, expand production or boost U.S. exports in the global economy.

    Infrastructure spending has failed just about everywhere it’s been tried. Ask the Japanese who poured billions into public works to pull itself out of its last long recession, without much success.

    townhall.com/columnists/DonaldLambro/2008/11/12/obama_not_garnering_financial_confidence_internationally

  96. As a poster said above, I too hope that Sarah Palin and Hillary become friends. She can gain some insight from Hillary’s experience on capitol hill.

    Hillary can let Sarah Palin be her mouthpiece. Hillary seems to be very hesitate to speak out on some issues because she don’t want to offend anyone. Sarah on the otherhand isn’t afraid to speak out and challenge her own party. She’s her own woman.

    I actually look forward to seeing and learning more about Sarah Palin. Maybe she will run for congress or senate.

  97. from townhall

    Subject: DHIMMICRATS’ WRONGHEADED ECONOMICS

    Does it occur to anyone on the left that Russia, China, and much of Europe are turning to capitalism as an answer to their FAILED Marxist economies, while Congressional Dhimmicrats embraced FAILED Marxist tactics precipitating the financial collapse by their insistance on postulating rules for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac requiring granting mortages to those “victims” (aka “oppressed Proletarians”)who could not afford them?

    The kudos by the left to the Dhimmicrat campaign handlers are misplaced. Without what the Soviets called “disinformation” on the part of the MSM, all the “King’s men” could not have put “The One’s” candidacy together again if BO’s Marxist roots had been even remotely covered by TV news.

    sooshisoo.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/obama-acorn-new-p arty-and-the-democratic-socialists-of-america/

    http://www.nysun.com/opinion/kenya-connection/69273/

    Hold on to your wallets, you “95%ers!”

  98. I hear that it would be possible for Palin to appoint herself to that Senate vacancy from Alaska If that true?

  99. Camille Paglia, although often annoying, especially as she relates to Bill and Hill…has some interesting comments regarding Sarah Palin and women at Salon:

    Liberal Democrats are going to wake up from their sadomasochistic, anti-Palin orgy with a very big hangover. The evil genie released during this sorry episode will not so easily go back into its bottle. A shocking level of irrational emotionalism and at times infantile rage was exposed at the heart of current Democratic ideology — contradicting Democratic core principles of compassion, tolerance and independent thought. One would have to look back to the Eisenhower 1950s for parallels to this grotesque lock-step parade of bourgeois provincialism, shallow groupthink and blind prejudice.

    I like Sarah Palin, and I’ve heartily enjoyed her arrival on the national stage. As a career classroom teacher, I can see how smart she is — and quite frankly, I think the people who don’t see it are the stupid ones, wrapped in the fuzzy mummy-gauze of their own worn-out partisan dogma. So she doesn’t speak the King’s English — big whoop! There is a powerful clarity of consciousness in her eyes. She uses language with the jumps, breaks and rippling momentum of a be-bop saxophonist. I stand on what I said (as a staunch pro-choice advocate) in my last two columns — etc…

    and no quarter has two good pieces:

    http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/11/12/hopium-smokers-who-hate-women

    http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/11/12/misogyny-was-the-central-narrative-of-the-obama-campaign

    …women better wake the hell up if they want to progress in the future…they need to be much better prepared and organized for the future…because the negative stuff is not going away…

    if ‘the woman’ is not part of the media’s agenda…the personal attacks, demonization and ridicule will continue…even now, in the aftermath of the election, the women are being dismissed and all the attention is going back on men…the men of the future in both parties…

  100. Does it occur to anyone on the left that Russia, China, and much of Europe are turning to capitalism as an answer to their FAILED Marxist economies, while Congressional Dhimmicrats embraced FAILED Marxist tactics precipitating the financial collapse by their insistance on postulating rules for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac requiring granting mortages to those “victims” (aka “oppressed Proletarians”)who could not afford them?
    —————————————
    True but only up to a point. But they build things in China and we do not. They hold business excutives accountable through reasonable measures like beheadings. We do not. And they have an enforceable shoot on sight policy for speculators like Soros, while we allow them to run free and wreak havoc without reproach.
    The only real similarity I see between us and China Russia and the rest of Europe only in the sense that none of us is named John. These broad philosophical observatons dont get us far. They would be better off saying something sensible like we need capitalism and safety nets tied to incentives and we must not increase taxes to the point that we cause capital flight.

  101. http://www.lynettelong.com/CAUCUSFRAUD/

    the above is the response to the following:

    wbboei Says:

    November 12th, 2008 at 9:57 am
    During a conversation with a neighbor this morning about the election I mentioned that had it not been for the caucas fraud and the disproportionate distribution of delegates to “loyal” democrat districts Hillary would have had it in the bag. She was skeptical about the fraud but astonished to learn that her vote counted for less. Anyone know of a site I could send her way to verify? I had not known about that either prior to this cycle and I have to say it pisses me off as well

    —————————————-
    Dr Lynette Long site. You can google it Henry. Also the City Edition article that explains how Rove and Gogzilla conspired to rig the caucuses.

  102. ABM90 Says:

    November 12th, 2008 at 7:46 am
    hwc; I disagree with your statement that the Clintons have been put out to pasture to be forgotten.
    &&&&&&&&

    For now, I’ll side with hwc (BTW, does the “w” in hwc stand for “Wodham”?) on this, ABM90’s wisdom and insight notwithstanding.

    The power struggle is not over, but clearly the Obama/Dean/Brazile faction rallied the slightly less than half of the Dems, making the 55% of them quiver in their boots. Well before the 5/31 RBC meeting, or “Shootout at the DC Corral”, the moderates had been beaten into submission. This includes moderate AA leaders. They had no stomach for standing up to fight for what’s right, to fight the coup. Instead, they “saw the writing on the wall”, and one by one became Obamazombies.

    “Today, I declare that I stand for Hope and Change, and I now support Senator Obama, the NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES”.

  103. ABM90 Says:

    November 12th, 2008 at 7:46 am
    hwc; I disagree with your statement that the Clintons have been put out to pasture to be forgotten.
    &&&&&&&&

    For now, I’ll side with hwc (BTW, does the “w” in hwc stand for “Wodham”?) on this, ABM90’s wisdom and insight notwithstanding.

    The power struggle is not over, but clearly the Obama/Dean/Brazile faction rallied the slightly less than half of the Dems, making the 55% of them quiver in their boots. Well before the 5/31 RBC meeting, or “Shootout at the DC Corral”, the moderates had been beaten into submission. This includes moderate AA leaders. They had no stomach for standing up to fight for what’s right, to fight the coup. Instead, they “saw the writing on the wall”, and one by one became Obamazombies.

    “Today, I declare that I stand for Hope and Change, and I now support Senator Obama, the NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES”.

  104. anywho
    (my double submission was an accident, i meant to continue boring you with my points of view…)

    …I think the Clintons will be drifting at sea, with depreciated pull within the party. Their supporters now all have to pledge loyalty to the King, as they have done since August, or June, or January, depending on when they lost their souls and their spines.

    I think Hillary plays a waiting game, to see how and when Obama starts to screw up, a) incompetence, and / or b) overbearing hubris.

    With Bush, we saw both. I have unshakeable faith in Obama….to be as overconfident to the point of hubris, as W. I think it would be hard for any administration to be AS incompetent as W’s two administrations, but given how many things need to be fixed, I don’t think Obama has the leadership skills and interest to roll up his sleeves, and work with Congress.

    People will have their areas of responsibility, and when things go wrong, off with their heads and under the bus. Obama ain’t never run nothin’, and if you want to say, “Well, he ran a *flawless*, ruthless
    campaign”, I’ll respond that from 5/31 through 9/29, Obama’s big lead continued to dwindle. Only the Lehman / Financial meltdown helped rescue his “flawless” campaign.

    He’s studying how to avoid a Carter-like term, but he’s going to fall into the W. trap: delegate, photo-op, gym, rinse and repeat. “You’re a smart bunch of people. Sweat out the details, and get back to me when you’re done. I’ll be bodysurfing in Hawaii for two weeks, and then I’m going on vacation”.

  105. “Hillary can let Sarah Palin be her mouthpiece. Hillary seems to be very hesitate to speak out on some issues because she don’t want to offend anyone. Sarah on the otherhand isn’t afraid to speak out and challenge her own party. She’s her own woman.”
    *****************************
    Independent2008, perhaps Hillary’s behavior is because she’s more mature, more experienced, and therefore ‘wiser’ than Sarah! I too like Sarah, I think she’s evolving very nicely. “She’s her own woman”? I think they both are.

  106. Hillary will continue to work her heart out for the State of New York. I don’t call that being “adrift at sea.” Further to that, she is the only one that comes out of all this mess with dignity and honor.

    As far as her being friends with Sarah Palin, I think party lines will keep them from having more than simply a healthy respect for each other. jmo

  107. JanH Says:

    November 12th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
    Hillary will continue to work her heart out for the State of New York. I don’t call that being “adrift at sea.” Further to that, she is the only one that comes out of all this mess with dignity and honor.

    As far as her being friends with Sarah Palin, I think party lines will keep them from having more than simply a healthy respect for each other. jmo
    ——————————————————————————————————————————————————–

    She’s friends with John McCain and Bill is friends with Bush, Sr and they are both Republicans. I can see Hillary and Sarah friends if they connect. Besides, Bill said that he liked Todd.

  108. rgb44hrc Says:
    November 12th, 2008 at 12:28 pm

    People will have their areas of responsibility, and when things go wrong, off with their heads and under the bus. Obama ain’t never run nothin’, and if you want to say, “Well, he ran a *flawless*, ruthless
    campaign”, I’ll respond that from 5/31 through 9/29, Obama’s big lead continued to dwindle. Only the Lehman / Financial meltdown helped rescue his “flawless” campaign.

    ———

    I completely agree with you.

  109. both friendships with McCain and Bush have been cultivated over many years. I’m not saying it won’t happen with Hillary and Sarah, I’m just saying it won’t be overnight.

  110. JanH Says:

    November 12th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
    both friendships with McCain and Bush have been cultivated over many years. I’m not saying it won’t happen with Hillary and Sarah, I’m just saying it won’t be overnight.
    ——————————————————————————————————————————————————
    Point made, I agree with you.

    Just read on yahoo news that Bush, Jr. called Bill Clinton before meeting with Obama. Bush said that Clinton was gracious to him and he hoped that he could be just as gracious to Obama. I was very surprised to read that because I didn’t think that Bill liked Bush, Jr. that well and didn’t they trash the white house when Bill was leaving?

    Strange how people are consulting with the Clintons now after trashing them during the primaries and on the news. If I was the Clintons, I wouldn’t give any of them the time of day. They could just be using the Clintons right now and throw them out to pasture when they get what they want to accomplish. Good thing I am not in politics. I couldn’t be that phoney!!!!

  111. Just read on yahoo news that Bush, Jr. called Bill Clinton before meeting with Obama. Bush said that Clinton was gracious to him and he hoped that he could be just as gracious to Obama. I was very surprised to read that because I didn’t think that Bill liked Bush, Jr. that well and didn’t they trash the white house when Bill was leaving?
    &&&&&&&&&

    Bush: “What prank should I play on Obama?”
    Bill: “The day before you clear out of the WH, remove all the O’s from the keyboards”.

  112. I see no reason to assume that it will be anything but business as usual for Obama and the DNC. In other words, whomever they can use to get ahead, they will. And when they are no longer of use, under the bus they go. If it suits Obama and his handlers to have Hillary and Bill at their beck and call, then this is what will happen. After which, they will trash the Clintons to smithereens.

  113. rgb44hrc Says:

    November 12th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
    Just read on yahoo news that Bush, Jr. called Bill Clinton before meeting with Obama. Bush said that Clinton was gracious to him and he hoped that he could be just as gracious to Obama. I was very surprised to read that because I didn’t think that Bill liked Bush, Jr. that well and didn’t they trash the white house when Bill was leaving?
    &&&&&&&&&

    Bush: “What prank should I play on Obama?”
    Bill: “The day before you clear out of the WH, remove all the O’s from the keyboards”.

    ———————————————————————————————————————————————

    LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Of course, they will be called racists if they did that 😉

  114. When people find out they can manipulate you and bully you they will continue to do so, until you stand up to them. I don’t see anyone standing up to O in the Dems.

  115. NewMexicoFan Says:

    November 12th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
    When people find out they can manipulate you and bully you they will continue to do so, until you stand up to them. I don’t see anyone standing up to O in the Dems.

    ——————————————————————————————————————————————————-

    I don’t see anyone standing up to O in the Dems either. What are they so afraid of??? NO ONE is standing up to this guy. Just falling in line. That’s why it was so refreshing to see Sarah Palin pound into Obama to no avail of course.

  116. Dean Brazile,Pelosi,Reid aka The Fraud Squad are responsible for the crowning of Obama with an act of grand theft Chicago style. I respect the offfice of our president but will never accept Obama as potus.To me he will always be The Commander in Thief…

    By ABM90

  117. Obama’s pal Paulson reneges on the financial bailout woth the govt asset buyback program!!!

    Remeber BO’s word!!!! “McCain cannot take credit for the 700m billion bailout”….he endorsed Paulson plan!!!

    Way to go…only 1 day in 8 days that the stock market moved north!!!!!

  118. I don’t think the Clintons are put out to pasture. BO is in deep doodoo in the upcoming years, and he has no experience, so he will be relying on the Clintons to steer through some of this.

    That being said, I was talking with a friend who said there was a journalist on Charlie Rose who talked about how difficult it would be for Hillary Clinton because on the one hand if she becomes the Lioness of the Senate – she will have to take risks on issues and legislation that she normally wouldn’t if she wants to run again for President.

  119. Palin says woman on ticket would be good for GOP
    By BRENDAN FARRINGTON

    Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, who clearly is looking ahead to her political prospects in 2012, said Wednesday that a woman would be good for the Republican presidential ticket in four years.

    This year’s GOP vice presidential nominee has been on a whirlwind series of postelection television interviews _ she is slated for two on CNN on Wednesday. She traveled to Florida for the three-day Republican Governors Association meeting and is scheduled to participate in a panel discussion Thursday titled, “Looking Towards the Future: The GOP in Transition.”

    She was asked Wednesday about speculation that she is the party’s future

    “I don’t think it’s me personally, I think it’s what I represent,” Palin told reporters. “Everyday hardworking American families _ a woman on the ticket perhaps represents that. It would be good for the ticket. It would be good for the party. I would be happy to get to do whatever is asked of me to help progress this nation.”

    Question on whether that was her priority, Palin said: “A priority for me is serving the constituents of the state of Alaska … They hired me and I have an obligation, or a responsibility to serve Alaska as their governor.”

    A week after Election Day, Republicans are doing some soul-searching after losing the White House and seeing their numbers decrease in the Senate and House. Many in the GOP are looking to their governors for a fresh direction for the party and the best prospects for winning the presidency in 2012.

    The telegenic Palin was a hit with Republican social conservatives. She has been fielding questions about her political future since the campaign ended, most recently in an interview with Fox News on Monday.

    townhall.com/news/politics-elections/2008/11/12/palin_says_woman_on_ticket_would_be_good_for_gop

  120. “To me he will always be The Commander in Thief…”

    ABM90, I couldn’t agree more. I sincerely hope that there is at least one honorable historian out there that documents the crimes that took place in this election.

  121. I will also state that I do not think God had anything to do with Obama’s false win. My understanding is that God gave man free will. This was a human act, not a religious one. The holocaust was a human act, not God-driven.

    Not trying to get religious on anyone here, but I thought I read in someone’s post that they thought differently.

  122. Fox has just announced a five part special on the Bill Clinton sex scandal.At last they are showing their true agenda to deny Hillary and Bill a political future They now join MSNBC CNN on my list of networks to boycott and spread the word to all viewers.
    The right wing conspiracy is now in full bloom.Our country faces a crisis and MSM is running the interference for the new commander in thief. Time to regroup friends and fight for our country.The barbarians wasted no time in surfacing.

    By ABM90 A clear and present danger

  123. JanH Says:

    November 12th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
    I will also state that I do not think God had anything to do with Obama’s false win. My understanding is that God gave man free will. This was a human act, not a religious one. The holocaust was a human act, not God-driven.

    Not trying to get religious on anyone here, but I thought I read in someone’s post that they thought differently.
    ——————————————————————————————————————————————————-

    To make it clear, I wasn’t the one who said that. That being said, my mom believes this also. She says that it was God’s will. So in other words, Obama must be OK, despite what is said about him. She is definitely drunk on the koolaide. She thinks that he is the second coming of Martin Luther King, Jr. I can’t convince her otherwise.

  124. LOL…independent, I couldn’t really remember who said it. I just remembered seeing it and after some thought, decided to give my two cents.

    Sorry about that.

  125. ABM90 Says:

    November 12th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
    Fox has just announced a five part special on the Bill Clinton sex scandal.At last they are showing their true agenda to deny Hillary and Bill a political future They now join MSNBC CNN on my list of networks to boycott and spread the word to all viewers.
    The right wing conspiracy is now in full bloom.Our country faces a crisis and MSM is running the interference for the new commander in thief. Time to regroup friends and fight for our country.The barbarians wasted no time in surfacing.

    ——————————————————————————————

    I wonder, how much the BO campaign is paying them. This is such old news. Who cares? Why not run a series on how we got into such a poor economic situation, and how are we going to get out?

  126. JanH Says:

    November 12th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
    LOL…independent, I couldn’t really remember who said it. I just remembered seeing it and after some thought, decided to give my two cents.

    Sorry about that.

    ——————————————————————————————————————————————————

    No problem Jan H,

    I wasn’t implying that you said it was me. I just wanted to make that qualifying statement since I commented on what you said. I just didn’t want anyone on this board to think that I was the one since I made a comment to you.
    Yep, the media is claiming that Obama is MLK, Jr. and JFK all rolled into one.

    birdgal Says:

    November 12th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
    ABM90 Says:

    November 12th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
    Fox has just announced a five part special on the Bill Clinton sex scandal.At last they are showing their true agenda to deny Hillary and Bill a political future They now join MSNBC CNN on my list of networks to boycott and spread the word to all viewers.
    The right wing conspiracy is now in full bloom.Our country faces a crisis and MSM is running the interference for the new commander in thief. Time to regroup friends and fight for our country.The barbarians wasted no time in surfacing.

    ——————————————————————————————

    I wonder, how much the BO campaign is paying them. This is such old news. Who cares? Why not run a series on how we got into such a poor economic situation, and how are we going to get out?

    Birdgal,
    You are so right!!! This election is venturing more and more into the twilight zone!!!

  127. jeleanoro Says:
    “Hillary can let Sarah Palin be her mouthpiece. Hillary seems to be very hesitate to speak out on some issues because she don’t want to offend anyone. Sarah on the otherhand isn’t afraid to speak out and challenge her own party. She’s her own woman.”
    *****************************
    Independent2008, perhaps Hillary’s behavior is because she’s more mature, more experienced, and therefore ‘wiser’ than Sarah! I too like Sarah, I think she’s evolving very nicely. “She’s her own woman”? I think they both are.
    ====================

    This may be opposite spins on the same fact. If Hillary wanted to settle down as Gov of NY she could be more ‘her own woman’. If Sarah wants to expand to national office, she may have to become less her own woman to get the backing of the national GOP.

    However right now Sarah can certainly speak more freely than Hillary can! I hope Sarah can stay more clear, less entangled than Hillary is. I’d love it if Sarah kicked ass with the national GOP as she did with Alaska GOP! Maybe with a base of women from both parties?

  128. mp Says:
    November 12th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
    Obama’s pal Paulson reneges on the financial bailout woth the govt asset buyback program!!!
    ===========

    All the more reason we need a good BILL CLINTON 90s veteran as Treasury Secretary. Preferably the most experienced one available, Larry Summers. If not, then at least SOMEONE from the 90s Treasury.

    Not a token symbol brought in from elsewhere. (Blair is doing a good job where she is at FDIC. If she moves to Treasury, then she is a trainee at Treasury and someone else will be a trainee at FDIC. Two chances for the Peter Principle to strike. Well, more than two, as a lot of people might have to move up a step at FDIC.)

  129. turndownobama-com:

    Unfortunately, I do not share your opinion on Larry summer as the only “treasury savior”……he can be asked for his expertise by a more ethical person with the right views on women!!!

  130. birdgal Says:

    November 12th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
    ABM90 Says:

    November 12th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
    Fox has just announced a five part special on the Bill Clinton sex scandal.At last they are showing their true agenda to deny Hillary and Bill a political future They now join MSNBC CNN on my list of networks to boycott and spread the word to all viewers
    ———————————————————————-

    You wonder how Bill and Hill can be so nice to these people

    I would tell them all to kiss my where the sun don’t shine

  131. Looks like the AP is already at work softenning the inevitable blows on taxes
    news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081112/ap_on_go_pr_wh/ap_poll_obama

  132. mp,

    Actually the new Treasury will have room for more than one veteran of the 90s. Bill Clinton appointed Summers at the beginning of the Clinton Admin as an Under Sec iirc, promoted him to Deputy, then finally to Sec. One of the lower Clilnton 90s officials is also being considered for Treas Sec now.

    Imo the more old loyal Clntonistas in power, the better. They need good offers to get them back. Bringing them back to their old positions makes sense, they can hit the ground running on day one. 🙂

    As to saying Summers is not PC enough — I’ve looked into that and I think it is nonsense. I’ve got a diary up at
    h t t p : / / clintondems.com/2008/11/restore-bill-clintons-secretary-of-the-treasury-larry-summers/#comment-15819
    and am trying to set up a blog at WordPress or somehwere. Can’t find a password that WordPress likes! 🙁

    Must go now.

  133. Fox has just announced a five part special on the Bill Clinton sex scandal.At last they are showing their true agenda to deny Hillary and Bill a political future They now join MSNBC CNN on my list of networks to boycott and spread the word to all viewers.

    The right wing conspiracy is now in full bloom.Our country faces a crisis and MSM is running the interference for the new commander in thief. Time to regroup friends and fight for our country.The barbarians wasted no time in surfacing.

    By ABM90 A clear and present danger
    ——————————————
    This one isnt worth a yawn. I am telling you this stuff does not matter. All it will do is guarantee that Hillary will grant no interviews on FOX. Future events will trump ancient history–believe me. Anyone over age 30 who is not aware of this must have been living in a cave with Osama bin laden. So all you do is run a special about the Clinton Global Foundations work and this thing gets trumped. Just ignore this and concentrate on what is important.

  134. wbboei Says:
    November 12th, 2008 at 10:27 pm

    Fox has just announced a five part special on the Bill Clinton sex scandal.At last they are showing their true agenda to deny Hillary and Bill a political future They now join MSNBC CNN on my list of networks to boycott and spread the word to all viewers.

    The right wing conspiracy is now in full bloom.Our country faces a crisis and MSM is running the interference for the new commander in thief. Time to regroup friends and fight for our country.The barbarians wasted no time in surfacing.

    By ABM90 A clear and present danger
    ——————————————
    This one isnt worth a yawn. I am telling you this stuff does not matter. All it will do is guarantee that Hillary will grant no interviews on FOX.

    =========================

    Heh. Somebody asked who paid Fox for this. Maybe Hillary, to make us PUMAs mad at the GOP, if their treatment of Palin hadn’t done that already.

  135. In the Native American tradition the 2008 “A Time of Secrets”. We believed the Democratic National Committee leadership would never conspire with Karl Rove to undermine its leading candidate. We believed the Democratic National Committee would never manipulate the delegate allocation system to give certain demographic groups greater weight than others. We believed the nominee would be chosen by the voters rather than predetermined by dark movers behind the scene. We believed that procedural safeguards would be established to prevent voter fraud, intimidation and disenfranchisement. We believed when 2000 complaints were filed by voters protesting egregious conduct by Obama supporters in the caucuses, the Democratic National Committee would take the matter seriously and conduct a due diligence investigation. We believed that Rules and By-laws Committee would adhere to its own fair reflection standard and never take delegates away from a candidate who earned them and award them to a candidate who was not even on the ballot. We believed the Democratic National Committee would never presume to bribe and threaten state party leaders, and congressional super delegates to not support one candidate. We never believed that 63 million dollars of illegal foreign money would be contributed to Obama and that he would refuse to disclose a donor list. We never dreamed that the Democratic National Committee would prevent a candidate who won the popular vote and nearly as many delegates as the one they favored from taking her nomination to the Convention floor as Roosevelt did in 1932 and Kennedy did in 1980. We never believed Big Media would prostitute itself for a candidate. Finally, we never dreamed the Democratic Party was and is misogynistic to its core.

    In Native American Tradition, we have now entered “A Time When All Is Known”. It is perfectly clear in hindsight that none of these assumptions were true. None of them. And that is discouraging to millions of us for three reasons: i) first, we believe Hillary Rodham Clinton is the best political leader of our time and the country desperately needed her leadership. During the primary, Hillary found her voice and eighteen million of us responded with tremendous enthusiasm ii) second, we invested a significant amount of time, energy and hope in her campaign. We followed Hillary’s moccasin prints from one end of the country to the other. I served as an unpaid volunteer for her in Texas, Pennsylvania, Indiana and West Virginia. M served in Indiana, and opened her home to half a dozen other Hillary volunteers. M produced a powerful video in support of Hillary’s candidacy. I wrote a book on executive leadership dedicated to Hillary. M went on talk radio to voice her support for Hillary. I worked with unaffiliated support networks JSND. We made substantial monetary contributions to Hillary’s candidacy. We wrote three sets of letters to Hillary super delegates and the uncommitted ones. M has her own website devoted to Hillary. I blog on a daily basis at Hillaryis44, and iii) third, we have never understood why someone with no resume, toxic associations and flawed judgment would be secretly selected to be the nominee well before the people had cast their votes. It makes you wonder who made that decision, what their agenda is and how can the nominee/president elect be legitimate when the process is this corrupt.

  136. turndownobama-com Says:

    November 12th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
    —————————————-
    Did you notice how a few of our brothers and sisters up thread speculated that Bambi paid FOX to run the hit piece. My initial reaction is who cares, etc. My studied reaction is that this 5 part series was produced on the assumption that Hillary would be the nominee and since that did not happen they are using it as filler material. Dont you think that is most likely what this is about. I know it looks like one of those aha moments but not every dirty deed is traceable to Bambi. There are other bad men in the world, as Hillary herself once acknowledged.

    Basil: I will send you an email with my phone number.

  137. wbboei, is this the smoking gun?? Is this why she backed the fraud?? I always knew she was being blackmailed! When does the series start??

  138. wbboei, I changed my mind about this 5 part series. They are just trying to get a big hit on Hillary before 2012. They are figuring that Sarah will run and they are getting one step ahead now! MAYBE?? I dunno?? LOL!!

  139. Confloyd: I think there were a number of reasons she backed the nominee. But this 5 part series was not one of them.

    I think a critical factor was the media. Here is what I said about it in Prophesy 1:

    If she had taken the matter to the Convention Big Media and the DNC would have labeled her a power hungry conniving bitch who was out to destroy the party and to undermine the hopes and dreams of the AA community—even though she was doing nothing more than what Kennedy did in 1980.

    During the primary she promised to campaign for other democrats and whoever the nominee turned out to be. This was consistent with traditional practice. And so, when the DNC stole the nomination from her she merely kept her promise. In doing so she displayed more grace and dignity than anyone I have seen.

  140. Confloyd: in all the canvassing I did for Hillary across the country I ran into exactly one person-a lady who reminded you of the farmers wife in the painting American Gothic who mentioned the Luwiensky matter as a reason she would not vote for Hillary. I dont think that issue has traction. I think FOX is just emptying the file cabinet. Hillary is repositoning herself well from what I can see and once bambi gets in office and is confronted with problems her star will rise dramatically in my opinion.

  141. wbboei, maybe thats what Fox and obama are doing heading off Hillary at the gate. I don’t know, but I do know that I wish I knew for sure what happened!

  142. You might be right, Hillary may be exerting some pressure to get an appointment that was promised, just like Edwards did and we all know what Obama did to Edwards!

  143. wbboei, I dropped by cell and broke it. I am at work now, but will call you when I get home on Friday! Hopefully, I can retrieve your number from the broken phone!

  144. confloyd
    May I suggest signing up online with your cell phone carrier. I did it and its a lifesaver when you damage phone. Which I do with some frequency.

  145. wbboei;In my over reaction to get out the FOx news on the 5 parter on BC I put my anger before the usual analysis for cause and effects.Mu apologies.Your cool head and broad experience along with the gift of communicating with people has been serving us well.Hat’s off to you.Had a bad day yesterday handling the news that is destroying the stability of our nation.
    As an old antique on SS and living beyond all planned expectations has become a thorny issue and couple that with an overpowering determination to see Hillary as the rightful CIC to rescue our floundering nation from the grips of BHO and his cabal of barbarians liars thieves.Rays of hope are few and time is short.MSM controls the destiny of our countrys future unless we fight them with all the tools that we can employ.
    Again thank you my friend along Emjay janh and so many patriots that give me hope ever day. on this site.

    ABM90

  146. MSNBC Retracts False Palin Story; Others Duped
    Network runs correction on air after reporting an adviser to John McCain had identified himself as the source of an embarrassing story about Sarah Palin, information stemming from a hoax.

    NEW YORK — MSNBC was the victim of a hoax when it reported that an adviser to John McCain had identified himself as the source of an embarrassing story about former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, the network said Wednesday.

    David Shuster, an anchor for the cable news network, said on air Monday that Martin Eisenstadt, a McCain policy adviser, had come forth and identified himself as the source of a FOX News Channel story saying Palin had mistakenly believed Africa was a country instead of a continent.

    Eisenstadt identifies himself on a blog as a senior fellow at the Harding Institute for Freedom and Democracy. Yet neither he nor the institute exist; each is part of a hoax dreamed up by a filmmaker named Eitan Gorlin and his partner, Dan Mirvish, the New York Times reported Wednesday.

    The Eisenstadt claim had mistakenly been delivered to Shuster by a producer and was used in a political discussion Monday afternoon, MSNBC said.

    “The story was not properly vetted and should not have made air,” said Jeremy Gaines, network spokesman. “We recognized the error almost immediately and ran a correction on air within minutes.”

    elections.foxnews.com/2008/11/13/msnbc-retracts-false-palin-story-duped/

  147. The Fox series on the Clinton scandal is for one purpose only…to cut off Hillary and Bill’s power base at the knees. Obama cannot afford to have a Clinton as popular and respected (and not polarizing as some would say) as Hillary in the White House. I don’t think he, personally pushed for this airing, but I am sure his handlers are thrilled it will be happening.

    Obama needs all the leverage he can get and his cult realize that.

  148. “MSNBC Retracts False Palin Story; Others Duped”

    um…and it took them HOW LONG to verify that this slam was a false one? Just long enough for it to cause as much damage as possible?

    Just one more strike against those media weaklings!

  149. This was the group that proudly said that they did not report rumors. What they should have said it that they only report rumors agains some people mainly Palin.

    JanH

    I guess I would rather they do a complete job of looking at all rumors out there (we would have a lot of O rumors out there then), and investigate them.

    But they prefer to use the rumors that benefit their political agenda, and then make a correction after their mission has been accomplished.

    I wish they would address all the O rumors, and run them to ground. But then that would not serve their purpose.

    One More Thing, our Former Rep Governor Gary Johnson, is being asked if he will run for President in 2012. Now that should be interesting. He was an interesting Gov.

    That is a risky path to take, as if any of those O rumors turns out to be true, they will be asked why they fell down on the job

  150. Sorry, somehow that previous message got disconnected. I have to blame it on thisw new notebook, and as usual I did not proof read well.

  151. confloyd and others from last thread,

    Hillary has stated very strongly this week iirc that she has ZERO interest in any job other than her current job as Senator from NY. This fits with what she said all summer about takng VP only if requsted by the party as a favor, but preferring to remain in the Senate.

    Resiging her Senate seat to work directly for BO would be a very bad move. At best the job would end when BO’s term ends. At worst he could fire her any time (or harrass her into quitting). In either case she would not have her Senate seat to go back to, as she would not want to fight a Democratici Senator for it (nor woudl she want to give it up to a Republican Senator now).

    The media and soem people like to talk as though such a job would be a promotion and an honor, but in fact keeping her seniority in the Senate and buildign her strength there is her safest move and best way ot increase power — and to get her legislation passed, which is her priority. Sec of State or something would really just be spinning her wheels over grassfires, and might get her caught in a pinch like Powell was. BO would love to put her in a position where he could blame something on her!

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