South Dakota and Montana Vote – Thanks To Hillary Clinton

South Dakota and Montana, thanks to Hillary Clinton, vote today. Hillary Clinton fights for the rights of primary voters. Obama runs a campaign by NOT counting votes and getting votes in states he did not even run in.

Exit polls released tonight indicate Obama remains unelectable in a general election (Obama once again loses white working class voters), aside from not being qualified to be president.

When the polls close (9:00 p.m. EST)) Hillary Clinton will be in New York. Obama will be hanging out with the ghosts of failed Democratic nominees.

As the final primary votes are cast Tuesday in Montana and South Dakota, Obama and his wife will travel not to one of those places but to St. Paul, Minnesota, where they will attend a rally at the Xcel Energy Center, a downtown arena where the Republican National Convention will be held this summer.

The campaign hopes it’s a potent sign of how he will take the fight to the Republicans on their own turf, assuming he wins the Democratic nomination. They also think it’s a sign of his he’ll fight for closely competitive states such as Minnesota.

There’s one problem, however.

The site they chose played another role in political history. And it’s not a memory Democrats relish.

It was at that site where Democrat Walter Mondale met with about 2,000 crying supporters on election night to concede the 1984 presidential election to President Ronald Reagan.

And it wasn’t just a loss. It was an electoral college landslide.

Reagan swept 49 states and took 525 electoral college votes. Mondale carried just his home state of Minnesota – narrowly – and Washington DC, giving him just 13 electoral college votes.

It was the worst electoral college defeat ever suffered by a Democrat in American history.

Other Democratic landslide losers fared better: Jimmy Carter got 49 electoral college votes against Reagan’s 489 in 1980, and George McGovern got 17 against Richard Nixon’s 520 in 1972.

Perhaps Obama will appear with McGovern and Carter tonight and foreshadow in the starkest manner possible the Democratic? future.

* * * * *

In Massachusetts Hillary Clinton voters beat Ted Kennedy, John Kerry and Governor Patrick. In South Dakota the political establishment led by Tom Daschle is force feeding voters Barack Obama. A Hillary victory or close loss in South Dakota will be a great humiliation to the Democratic? establishment in South Dakota.

Politico has a list of things to watch for in South Dakota tonight:

Here is what South Dakota insiders will be watching for:

The eastern half of the state sits in the Central Time zone and the west is in the Mountain Time zone. The polls are open from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. local time, but the Secretary of State’s office will not release any results until after all the polls close statewide at 8 p.m. Central Time.

Political analysts say it’s unclear which candidate is most favored among Native Americans, who are the largest minority group in the state, comprising 8.5 percent of the population. The returns from two counties – Shannon and Todd – could provide an answer. [snip]

Shannon County, home to the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, is 86 percent Native American. Democratic Sen. Tim Johnson was losing in his 2002 reelection bid until controversial late returns from Shannon County pushed him ahead of Republican John Thune by 524 votes. Democrat John Kerry won the county with 85 percent of the vote in 2004, making it his top county in the country.

Todd County, home to the Rosebud Indian Reservation and 81 percent Native American, also delivers for Democrats.[snip]

One quirk of the South Dakota election system is the way votes are tabulated: None are counted at the precinct level. Instead, the ballots must be driven to the county auditor’s office, which runs the paper through an optical scan machine, potentially slowing down the results.

Tabulations from Shannon and Todd counties can take even longer: The ballots are sent to adjacent counties, which mean the results from these key areas are likely to come in very late. (Shannon county is on Mountain time and Todd is on Central time.) [snip]

Minnehaha County is home to Sioux Falls, the state’s biggest city and the anchor of the eastern part of state. It’s a “bit more liberal, more diverse. There is an African American population, an Hispanic population,” Smith said. [snip]

Obama is expected to perform well in Minnehaha County, while Clinton is looking for high turnout in the rural counties around Minnehaha where her aides believe she could do well.

South Dakota Secretary of State Chris Nelson predicted a turnout among the state’s 195,000 registered Democrats of between 40 percent and 45 percent. But campaign aides expect a slightly higher turnout of about 100,000 voters.

Things to watch out for in Montana:

Though Obama led Clinton 52 to 35 percent (with 13 percent undecided) among likely Democratic voters in Montana in a Mason-Dixon poll conducted May 19-21, his margin came almost entirely from the western part of the state.

“We had Clinton ahead in eastern Montana,” said Brad Coker, director of the poll.

The eastern part of the state is more rural and less densely populated. And it has all the demographic makings of Clinton country: lots of seniors, farmers and blue collar workers.

“If she starts cutting into his margins in the western part of the state, it could be closer,” said Coker.

That might be easier said than done, though, since the western part of the state seems well-suited for Obama. There are two big university towns – Missoula, home to the University of Montana and Bozeman, home to Montana State University.

Plus, there are clusters of younger and affluent voters around the ski resorts near Kalispell. And the state capitol of Helena is home to a significant population of well-educated white-collar government workers.

Clinton could make inroads in Western Montana in Butte, an old mining center, Great Falls, home to an Air Force base, and Anaconda, another older mining town.

About 15 percent of the state’s population live in Billings, Montana’s largest city with about 100,000 residents, and surrounding Yellowstone County.

As home to most of the state’s Democrats, Yellowstone County could be determinative. It’s considered cowboy country, but Billings is also a commercial hub with a population of professionals.

If Clinton wins the city and county by a good margin—and she is favored there—she could hold down Obama’s margin statewide.

Montana’s seven Indian reservations are home to only about 8 percent of the population, but typically produce 20 percent of the vote in Democratic primaries.[snip]

Even though both the University of Montana in Missoula and Montana State wrapped up their school years with May 10 graduation ceremonies, Lopach said there are still plenty of students around.

“A lot of their students are older and work, and so they’re not as mobile as traditional-age students,” he said. “They do live in the community, because their kids are there, their spouses are there, they have jobs there.”

Plus, early voting started about one week before commencement and same-day registration could make it easier for new, young voters, like those Obama has attracted in other states, to cast ballots.

Montana, which doesn’t have party registration, opens its primaries to all voters, and both campaigns will be keeping an eye on high percentages of Democratic primary votes coming out of Republican counties.

Big Media continues to work overtime for their tool, Barack Obama.

Hillary Clinton continues to work and fight for Americans.


522 thoughts on “South Dakota and Montana Vote – Thanks To Hillary Clinton

  1. I just don’t know how any of these super’s and Pundits can keep a straight face
    through all the many lies?

    I mean, Obama didn’t win anything ……the RBC meeting proves he STOLE this election with the help of his
    fat walleted buddy’s (money in wallet from Axelrod)

    I am a fighter, I will continue the fight through and beyond the general election
    but i am so F’n Pissed right now i just want to tear MO’s eyes out 👿

  2. super delegates seem to be coming in by the minute for him……….but who the hell are they??????????????

  3. You just know the republicans are going to rain on the parade somehow.

    I’m just waiting on it.

  4. Isn’t it a bit funny that the McCain team has nicer things to say about Hillary than Obama’s? It shows who is the smarter of the two. If Obama is the nominee, I certainly hope McCain puts a woman on the ticket and moves the GOP to the solid center. He will not have to worry any more about his own right wing. The DNC will have given them a reason to vote, to vote against Obambi. He will just need to move to the center to get the McCain Democrats and with a woman as his VP, many of Hillary’s supporters will come over too.

    It will be important that Obama not only lose, but lose so badly that we do not have to deal with him again.

  5. MJ,

    we have to ask ourselves this question?

    did aliens come down from outer space and take over our party?
    seriously, something is really wrong here…

  6. Going thru my mail from today I see that the DNC has a new gimmick to raise money. You have been selected to participate in the 2008 Presidential campaign survey. Naturally on the back page of the survey is the contribution page.
    They really do not want me answering these questions.




  8. rjk: When I received that survey, I tore it up, and put the pieces in the envelope, and mailed it back to them, at their expense.

  9. From a TM poster.

    “i think i see how the DNC planned this swansong – they set that May 31 hearing so they could give him 59 delegates he did not deserve to add to the tally so he could squeak it out and call himself the nominee by June 3.”

  10. Does Rudy have the ‘whitey’ tape? Per Towhall.

    The word is that one of the Republican candidates no longer in the race (Rudy) acquired the tape. Republicans will most likely hold the tape until the fall. Because if Hillary had it, she’d let it out now to get rid of Obama.

  11. from :

    OK. According to the DNC and MSNBC, Obama needs 2,118. But since there are only 4,233 delegate votes, that leaves 2,115 for Clinton. So instead of requiring Obama to win by the least margin possible, they are requiring him to win 2,118-2,115. That doesn’t seem quite fair to us.

    But some will say, well, OK, but it will be correct in a couple of weeks, when Edwards wins the Special Election, right?

    Again, from MSNBC:

    so we will keep the number at 2,118, which is what it will eventually be at convention.

    Lets see. 4,234 votes. Half votes are pretty common now. Seems to me one could secure a majority with 2117.5 votes, winning 2117.5-2116.5. I guess the DNC is making Obama play by ping-pong rules – have to win by two: 2,118-2,116.

    And the worst part? The Obama campaign is agreeing to this higher standard, saying it needs 2,118 to win. Maybe they’ll also say they need 271 Electoral Votes to win the election. Who knows. It must be this “new math” stuff.

    Oh. And we won’t even go here.

  12. This is what admin said:

    Here is what South Dakota insiders will be watching for:

    The eastern half of the state sits in the Central Time zone and the west is in the Mountain Time zone. The polls are open from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. local time, but the Secretary of State’s office will not release any results until after all the polls close statewide at 8 p.m. Central Time.

  13. kostner, I read Pawlenty’s comments earlier. He didn’t say anything about the slanted media coverage, though.

    As for the GOP, they will start going after Waffles in a huge way tomorrow. Bank on it.

  14. Honestly, the best possible time to dump that tape would be tomorrow, it would totally decimate the Democratic campaign.

    The republicans know this and i think if it comes it will be tomorrow.

  15. dot48: Thanks for the suggestion. I had thrown it in the trash, and I just dug it out. I wrote a choice message on the paper and announced that my yellow dog days are over.

  16. when i get DNC surveys, donations, whatever..i write a nice note using a huge black marker and send it post-paid. today’s note said “the dem party no longer represents me. go to hell”

  17. I agree, moon. The day after he passes the delegate threshold is the ideal time. People wouldn’t be talking about it (like Bob Beckel, Rush, etc.) if it were something being kept under wraps for months.

  18. Paula

    The longer they hold on to it the less of an impact it might have. With more and more people talking and speculating about it online, most would be let down when they finally see it saying oh is that all… who knows..

  19. My response to the survey was just to tear it up, and put in the envelope. The above responses are more civilized. LOL!

  20. skmf12 & Djia:

    Sounds great. That website will be very useful and we can build things as we go.

    Looking forward to hearing HRC speak tonight. It’s been a long haul and she’s come out on top in the popular vote. She has a lot to be happy about and thankful for, and so do we.

    On to Denver.

  21. Smarter for the GOP to let the rumor swash around about the tape for awhile and then release it. Obama can not officially deny it or give his usual BS to justify his racism until it is in the public domain. Then after the rumor gets a little stale, release only part of it, promising more later. Keep stringing it along to get max mileage out of it.

  22. thats what i think will happen, it will do the job of finish Obama off and make the SD’s and Democratic Party look like complete dicks in 1 go.

  23. I’m a new poster and happy to have found this site. I can’t wait for the first phone call asking for a “donation”. I don’t think they’ll be happy with the one I’ll offer. I just changed my registration to Independent after 40 years and generations of my family as democrats. Guess I should change my name to F’….d Yella Dog Dem. Roosevelt, Brazille, and company I’ll never forget you.

    I still have smoke coming out of my ears from last Saturday. I will not vote for Obama under any circumstances even if Hillary is on the VP ballot (which I can’t even envision). They’d also like to see her buried in the SC. Yeah, tie her hands with a one sided court and then blame her for every decision that comes down. Let them fend for themselves over Roe v Wade; we achieved the rights for women, let the “yute” march to keep them. So far, they’ve had a free ride. Now that the kids have discovered politics, they’re about to get some lessons. Sorry, I won’t be blackmailed and they can reap what they have sown.

  24. paddy

    maybe they’re waiting to release it 24hrs before he makes his big “they said it couldn’t be done” speech in denver.

  25. but someone said it was a GOP candidate that was no longer in the race… it can’t be Cmac

  26. I, too, want to see his political career retired. I can barely remember what Mondale looked like.

  27. hillfans, it may look like hillary is winning south dakota. i guess is telling since she is holding her rally in nyc instead of in south dakota.

  28. Look you guys, the Republicans are not going to do the democrats any favors….they are going to let the DEMOCRATS SHOOT THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT and then in the G.E. Help their candidates….so STOP looking for HELP from the REPUBLICANS.

    It’s OUR party that did this too us so you have to make your decision who you will support and then LIVE with it.

    IF you want to see 4 or 8 years of OBAMBICRAPPOLA then vote for that slug and be prepare to a continuation of the CORUUPT CHICAGO MACHINE in the WHITE HOUSE and all those LOSERS and BANRUKPTED MORAL POLITICIANS smiling in your face and mouthing Phony anti sexism speeches like nothing every happened.

    They’ll put Obama up on stage and have him PIMP you out for your vote…fake crying over Roe vs Wade and the Supreme court…but I saw nothing in their behaviour that tells me that they believe in equal rights and uplifting the fight against degredation and sexism…it was blatant and obvious and so ingrain by too many in the media that they felt it was acceptable behavior because those are not values to be respected.

  29. alcina et all…

    I think it would be best to let Obama take his arrogant bow & let him point his nose in the air and then release the tape 😀

  30. McCain now on giving his speech, for those of you who can’t stand to watch the “pundits.”

  31. I highly doubt obama could win a second term

    let’s face it he is limping after only 15 months against hillary now…… after 4 years of gaffes and mistakes and taking this
    country down a even worse road that Bush, do you all really think,believe we would be stuck with him for 8 years??

    I sure as hell dont! and i dont think the repubs or the pundits think that either

    that is what all the talk of hillary running again in 2012
    I say, we just don’t let him have the first 4 at all !!! FIGHT and VOTE OBAMA OUT!

  32. He might well not make it in. I am hoping for a 3rd party run by Clinton if that is possible. For once, it might actually work. I do not know though if it is logistically possible and basically she’s said she’ll help the ticket anyway she can.

  33. from TM poster:

    Great- Mccain just said “Pundits and Party elders have declared” that my opponent is BO. Wow!!!!

  34. lol McCain just basically asked Hillary’s voters to come over to him with that speech.

    He praised her much more sincerely and nicer than that prick Obama

  35. The GOP is going to destroy Obama, honestly they are going to make him look like he blew up the twin towers himself.

  36. did anyone else get the email from

    Pimping Wexlers new book?? ROTFLMAO!!!

    what a Joke!!

  37. McCain said Hillary demonstrated tenaciousness and courage, that she was an inspiration to his daughters. He said Hillary was not given credit for her compassion. He said that he is proud to call her his friend.

    He said “pundits and party elders have decreed” that Obama will be his competition..

    From TM

  38. oh that was the most evil grinning laugh on mcCain just now when he said

    “we’re just getting to know my opponent”

  39. Come on John, ask your good friend Hillary to join you on the ticket. That would really shake things up, members of the DNC along with members of the RNC would be jumping off roof tops

  40. his real tough him and hillary would be good debates lol…obama will never withstand him
    he will crush babmi into pop goes the weasel

  41. Are we winning SD? McCain is a gentlemen and his warm comments about Hillary were heartfelt as they are on good terms in the senate. I shall vote for him absent Hillary becoming our nominee.

  42. CALL HRC headquarters and urge her to go to the convention!


  43. Clinton will win SD, as per CNN, look at the exit poll

    she took 57% of the women and they made up 57% of the vote, and the men split 50/50

  44. Obama does not stand a chance. It will not even be a fair fight. Don’t be surprised if the delegates beg for Hillary by the time Denver rolls around. Remember, that no matter what the Supers say now, nothing is legal until the convention. Hillary or even Gore could be called in at the last moment to save the day.

    Stranger things than this have happened in US political history.

  45. soooooooooo true paddy!! 😀

    I am positive this is why Hillary is talking VP now…… she knows the other shoe is going to WACK BO on the head
    and she can claim she was peacefully going along with the party 😀


  46. jesus h christ. made the mistake of clicking on msnbs. KO, pumpkin head and some other dickhead are having multiple orgasms over BO’s thrilling history making evening.

  47. i said very brilliant she can take few days off relax way mccain is going let him do some of the work too..
    mccain will get under his skin and obama will stutter so bad

  48. The “nominee” of the Democratic Party loses the primary that puts him over. How poetic is that?

  49. This just goes to prove that the DNC are hypocrites – they are ignoring the will of the people and focusing on the superdelegates to carry the nominee forward.

  50. im hope she wins in minnnnahaha county souix falls
    dija he was there then the priest came on lol and i hope she takes daschles county in aberdeen where he lives face will be melted

  51. filbertsf Says:

    June 3rd, 2008 at 9:20 pm
    Wasn’t it a few days ago polls were showing Bambi ahead in SD
    yep …the people caught on when that priest came on it bothered alott of people

  52. Let’s get this thing straight– Does Obama have the required number of pledged delegates or doesn’t he? If not, I do not accept him as the nominee. The superdelegates haven’t voted yet.

  53. CJ, I heard some obambots suggest Daschle for VP. I guess with the all crap in the underwear.

  54. Per WSJ.

    Voters Don’t Forget Rev. Wright

    Some worrying signs for Barack Obama emerged Tuesday from the final two primaries of the long Democratic presidential nominating race.

    With the nomination all but sewed up, the Illinois Democrat showed weaknesses in South Dakota in particular that rival Hillary Clinton’s campaign has warned could haunt him in November.

    According to early exit polls, voters Tuesday appeared to have strong concerns about his two decades of membership in Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.

    More than a third of voters in South Dakota said the issue was important to them, following Sen. Obama’s announcement this week that he would leave his church after inflammatory statements by his former pastor, Jeremiah Wright, and others from the Trinity pulpit. Of those voters, about two-thirds voted for Sen. Clinton, according to early exit polls.

    In Montana, voters also appeared to have doubts about the Trinity controversy. Nearly a third said the news that Sen. Obama had severed his ties with his church was important, and more than half of those voters supported Sen. Clinton.

    Trinity is a predominately black church on the South Side of Chicago, and the Rev. Wright had preached about black empowerment. He had also made many controversial statements, including suggesting the federal government had spread HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, in order to harm African-Americans.

    Voters in both Montana and South Dakota are overwhelmingly white.

    In South Dakota, Sen. Clinton dominated among the elderly, less educated and women voters who have been the mainstay of her campaign. In Montana, however, she lagged behind among those voters, even losing among women, about half of whom said they voted for Sen. Obama, the early polling data showed.

    One positive sign for Sen. Obama was that he did well with independent voters, particularly in Montana, which had an open primary, compared with South Dakota, which limited voting to Democrats. About a third of voters in Montana said they aren’t aligned with any party — and two-thirds of that group voted for Sen. Obama.

    In South Dakota, about 15% of voters called themselves independent, and that group broke about evenly between the two candidates.

    There also appears to be support for an Obama-Clinton ticket in the fall against the expected Republican nominee, Sen. John McCain of Arizona. More than half of voters in the Democratic primaries in both states said they would support such a ticket, and Sen. Clinton told supporters on a conference call Tuesday she would be open to the idea.

    While some analysts have said that the long nominating fight could weaken Democratic chances in November, a majority in both states said the extended primary race had energized the party. The exit poll was conducted by Edison/Mitofsky for the National Election Pool at 20 polling places in each state.

  55. If Hillary wins SD, then she gets Johnson as a SD. Remember, he said, he would give his vote to the winner of SD? Let’s see, if he really does it.

  56. “One positive sign for Sen. Obama was that he did well with independent voters, particularly in Montana, which had an open primary, compared with South Dakota, which limited voting to Democrats. About a third of voters in Montana said they aren’t aligned with any party — and two-thirds of that group voted for Sen. Obama.”

    You know, I wouldn’t be surprised, if these “Independent” voters, go for McCain in the GE.

  57. yep tim johnson said that so if he doesnt hit his email
    he is a nice man..i know a couple of guys who know him..always polite

  58. Axlerod on Fox asked about Richard Lugar as Obama’s running mate…isn’t he a republican?

  59. CJ, I always thought it was ironic that with Daschle around BO could claim no lobbyists.

  60. Could anything be more poetic than Barack Obama winning the nomination with the delegates of yet another state that he loses? Amusing. Amusing.

  61. i have a glass here, two parts vodka/one part theraflu…



  62. DCDemocrat, you are right about the meaning of South Dakota supposedly putting B.O. “over the top”. Also, Obama is speaking at the site of Mondale’s defeat.

  63. TMac……… are you ready for her? are you ready for the next president of the united states!

  64. Hillary is right – we should take a moment to reflect on what Obama has accomplished: race-baiting, misogyny, disenfranchisement, insulting small town Americans as bitter and clingy.

  65. Did you guys hear McCains attack about Obama thinking that he’s entitled to presidency! Gotta love it. McCain’s going to eat him alive!

  66. warehouse553 Says:

    June 3rd, 2008 at 9:35 pm
    Daschle must be embarassed!
    yep i bet his PISSED haha

  67. To answer the above question:

    Obama does not have the required number of pledged delegates. His basis of claim to the nomination relies on the additional support of enough SDs to put him over the top. They can change their minds up until the moment they vote in Denver. So it is not official until then. But the media, the DNC and Obama have all decided it is over.

    It is up to Hillary to accept or not accept this verdict. If she accepts it, then Obama can claim victory. But still anything can happen between now and the convention. “A funny thing happened on the way to the forum.”

  68. would ya look at that diverse crowd all around her not just behind her!!!

    now that is a true uniter!

  69. Admin, too funny…

    warehouse553 Says:

    June 3rd, 2008 at 9:37 pm
    Did you guys hear McCains attack about Obama thinking that he’s entitled to presidency! Gotta love it. McCain’s going to eat him alive!

    Looking forward to it!

  70. Oooh, Hill’s on Fox? I don’t have Fox in here. What’s she saying? I hope she takes this opportunity to educate the citizenry about how the delegate count works. Everyone I’ve talked to believes the supers count now and they act like I’m crazy when I tell them otherwise.

  71. I guess her speech tonight will be very telling as to what the next step is for the campaign.

  72. Daschle shouldn’t be surprised, he was the highest ranking Democrat in the Senate and SD still voted him out of office just another repudiation for him by his own state.

  73. An URGENT message to Senator Madam President from Reverend Manning.


  74. Jen the Michigander Says:

    June 3rd, 2008 at 9:43 pm
    Oooh, Hill’s on Fox? I don’t have Fox in here. What’s she saying? I hope she takes this opportunity to educate the citizenry about how the delegate count works. Everyone I’ve talked to believes the supers count now and they act like I’m crazy when I tell them otherwise.
    mme i hope she does that delegate thing too..i try to explain but i dont know enough about it..i just tell its wrong lol the math is

  75. Jen

    She’s being gracious and actually praising his supporters. What class she has! She’s also saying that she appreciates all the people that fought for her and that she’ll continue to fight for us.

  76. Do you think she’s holding out until she see’s what happens tomorrow.

    She’s going to pile the pressure on now.

  77. She is not saying she wants to be President. She is talking about the things she has fought for. The crowd is chanting “don’t quit.” She says she will not decide tonight about her next steps. The crowd cheers wildly. She wants to hear from us to share our thoughts on what to do next. Go to her website and let her know. She will also be consulting others (SDs etc) also. She is thanking everyone.

  78. filbertsf,

    absolutely NO. I hope she will run as an INDY… The floodgate is open. I don’t even care whether she can win as an INDY, just screw the DNC and the rigged party once and for all.

  79. skmf12, she’s crying?

    warehouse553… it’s true. I was a bit upset over it when I heard about it.

  80. kostner, I just want to hear it from Hillary. I want her to say we will take it to Denver.

    Of course I don’t want her to concede.

  81. pundits are absolutely SPEECHLESS!!!! LOL!!!!

    she is so brilliant!!!! 😀

    they said that BO may want to revise his speech that he has already submitted and that BO jaw must be on the floor after watching that speech of hers LOL!!

    his speech was 1/2 about hillary i guess and flower comments etc RFLMAO!!!

  82. still has not conceded. She wants to hear from us. Let’s let her know we want her to take the voter’s case to Denver for a fair trial. They deserve no less.

  83. we call, we email and we donate!!

    and then we call again and we email again and we can donate again 😀

  84. We knew she wasn’t going to concede. However, what she said is consistent with a story I read today (NOT the AP ones, lol) that said she told supporters she needed a few days to decide. However, her statement that she’s meeting with party leaders tells me she’s moving toward a different phase.

  85. u guys are the pros tell me some things to say when ya figure it all out send it to admin and he will send to me..then i wll write her too.
    she wants to hear from u guys

  86. Hillary’s mothers 89th birthday is tomorrow…….just got this in a email

    some are donating 89.00 in that honor

  87. That speech was 100x more dramatic than anything Obama can say tonight! Best speech by either Clinton, since Oklahoma City – wow, wow, wow! “18 MILLION” is the new battlecry!!! SOOOO COOL!!!!!!!

    And that “Denver! Denver! Denver!” chant!!!!!

  88. Maxine stuck with Hillary until the end of the primaries and considering her district went for obama and is probably 90% AA, it is not surprising.

  89. i got a reply from John Ausman!!!

    From: Jon and Donna Ausman []
    Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 8:07 PM
    Subject: Re: Hillary faught for florida Please Endorse Her!

    I did endorse Senator Hillary Clinton today.


    here is my reply back to him 😀
    I KNOW!! J Thank you so much!!!!

    You’re a wonderful American!!

    We will not forget that!

  90. Brokaw said that he has it from top inside sources, close to Clinton, that Bill and Hillary have been in negotiations, and that she has indicated that she would like to be Vice President

  91. OK! I have a question about donations. I maxed out on the Primary so how do my new donations get allocated (and more important, how can she use them)?

  92. I agree with what TM has said on several occasions: that Hillary has really evolved as a candidate. She’s much more relaxed and comfortable. The real Hillary is shining through more than ever.

  93. This game is not over yet. The fight continues. I am certain Bill wants to take this to Denver too. But she can not continue alone. She must have her troops loyally at her side. That is us friends. I really feel that if there is enough support, she will continue.

  94. djia Says:

    June 3rd, 2008 at 9:58 pm
    pundits are absolutely SPEECHLESS!!!! LOL!!!!

    she is so brilliant!!!!

    they said that BO may want to revise his speech that he has already submitted and that BO jaw must be on the floor after watching that speech of hers LOL!!
    im LOL too..because there stuttering them pundits there absoluetly speechless and stupid
    she actually put them down and thru them away

  95. Berkeley Vox,

    I think we can just stop listening to those stupid MSM’s noise. NOBODY KNOWS what’s on Hillary’s mind. My sense is she is absolutely fired up. She’s not going to take a V.P. spot.

    It is going to be Hillary or lose in November, period.

  96. For her to not concede means that she or her people has to know something! She’s no fool. Let’s wait!

  97. Berkeley Vox: OH YEAH!!! Get that info out there at the most opportune time! We want everyone to know what a SLIMEBALL waffles is when is DOESN’T OFFER Hillary the VP spot. Even the more casual Hillary supporters won’t understand why this SO-CALLED UNITER won’t even unite his own party by putting her on the ticket.

  98. Here’s the deal you guys… if the story that HRC is in private negotiation to be VP is true, then I don’t think she’ll take it to Denver (duh! I know).

    If she goes to Denver, she probably won’t get that VP.

  99. The media has been getting it wrong all along. They predicted it would be over tonight. Don’t buy into their spin. Hold tight, keep up the support, and wait. We will know soon enough the real story.

  100. I agree. we should give Maxine’s break. She’s been loyal to Hillary through and through. It’s a difficult position for her. It will be difficult for many of those Supers who backed Clinton in an overwhelmingly Obama terriotry. That’s why I think she should run as INDY, so she does not need to owe the old democratic party ANYTHING.

  101. Excuse me… CNN saying the VP is Obama’s choice and not Hillary’s choice to put herself on the ticket. He can not stop Hillary’s name from being entered into nomination at the convention and if the delegates vote her as VP there is not a damn thing he can do about. oh.. yes there is, he can quit and go home….

  102. kostner, no. I will not give that turncoat a break. The same could be said of Dianne Watson but she’s not backstabbing.

  103. Very well played.

    Cheney-power with complete control over health care, an insistence it is the top of ANY agenda, or denver.

    Obama got whupped yet again, this time in SD where he was supposed to win, and he’s smiling.


  104. rjk1957,

    that’s my scenario. She should RUN as V.P., not to be picked by Obama. Then we will have a co-president!!

    We need a constitutional scholar, More drama!!! Ha ha…

  105. know what?

    watching cnn for a moment, they are all aghast at what hillary said.
    they say if she thinks this will get her the nomination, she’s in for a
    rude surprize.
    they said obama was willing to cut her some slack tonight and be
    generous, but she certainly doesnt earn it…

    hillary isnt going for the vp job…
    she knew what she was doing, and she essentially said, no…

  106. BTW, you KNOW I ONLY want Denver, but if Bill & Hill feel they must continue to consider this lame excuse for a party as legitimate, then I’m with them no matter what they decide.

  107. Have you noticed that Hillary does not let the crowd go on and on…she gets to her speech and BO almost encourages the “adulation” and does not stop it.

    Thank you…….Thank you….thank you….thank you…………………………………………WHEW!

    Oh, Granny was just drug out from under the bus by BO…………………………………….WHEW!

  108. kostner,

    screw that!

    what do you mean give waters a break?
    maybe its something you might do, but for most of us hear,
    we would never roll over!!!

    and we would never say okay to vp either…
    whats up with u ?

  109. Hillary’s speech was fantastic! She has shown what a great orator she is! Obama’s speaking skills have nothing on her.

    All I can say is: Denver!

  110. Here’s my message.

    I am SO proud of you Senator Clinton. You are the 21st century Queen Boudica, leading your loyal troops into battle. We are with you all the way to Denver and beyond.


  111. she’s planning to go to denver……. she set it up with the pundits in her speech tonight by saying i will listen to my voters 😀

  112. I’m with Blue Dem. I think this is all about leverage. And I believe she would accept the VP slot. I’m sure there’s lot going on behind the scenes that we don’t know about. The pundits on CNN are full of shit, as usual.

  113. Yeah Paula, Brokaw said that he’d heard that Bill and Hillary had sent that message to the Obama campaign.

  114. They can say whatever they want. It is Hillary’s voters they need badly to win in GE and those voters will act depend on how they treat Hillary.

  115. Wyoming Automatic Delegate Backs Hillary
    The Clinton Campaign today announced the support of Wyoming Democratic National Committee Member and automatic delegate Cindy Nunley.

  116. I think Hillary has 2 plans here: Plan 1a, which is to somehow win the nomination for 2008; and Plan 1b, which is to cripple waffles even further for the November election, thus giving her a good shot at 2012. She has to be careful how she treads, but if waffles loses in November, I think Hillary is good to go for 2012.

  117. well paula,

    i hope to f*ck your wrong about the vp thing, cause she will piss off
    most of the people who love her…

  118. Wow, I guess it is a battle btw BO and JMcCain for who getrs her votes

    I got news for you Barack, Hillaray gets her voites despite your racist appeals and BS.

  119. Don’t you just know that BO is about to choke having to praise Hillary…at this defining moment.

  120. I think we’re either going to Denver, or an Obama/Clinton ticket, after tonight, that’s for sure. That’s what her speech indicated to me, and that’s the level of leverage she has, and Obama would be insane not to ask her to join him. If he doesn’t, then it’s on to Denver absolutely.

  121. If she were taking this to Denver she wouldn’t have talked about meeting with party leaders over the next few days. Her winning the popular vote, however, gives her tremendous leverage to get concessions from Obama.

  122. His faux graciousness making me want to puke aside,


  123. lol, with that speech, he’s makes her argument for having the presidency. He basically offered her the VP spot tonight.

  124. Berkeley,
    That’s what I thought the other night was leading us to, really a no-lose situation as long as Hill was ok with taking VP.

    She has every right to expect true power as VP, or go to Denver and beat his ass…..

  125. BV, You hit the nail on the head.

    skmf12, Many people here would be upset if HRC was VP, but most of her supporters would be fine with it. I will support her in whatever decision she makes.

  126. Levon,

    There is NO Plan B, it’s 2008 or bust. The party is rigged, if she can’t get the nominee this year, there’s no way they’ll give it to her in 4 years.

    I am all for 2008 or bust.

  127. I’d be very surprised if she was not the VP now at the very least, she has ample leverage to kick his ass and leverage.

    He needs her bad and her voters.

  128. # dedfg Says:
    “Hillary is too good/experienced to be his VP.”

    Yes, undoubtedly.

    “This would be a demeaning position for her.”

    That depends on how she looks at it. If her goal is to work, to contribute, perhaps not.
    Can talk about it forever.
    Main thing is right now, she’s making NO decision tonight.

  129. All of us here know that you are a phony. Soon the rest of America will know that.

    Give it up Obama. You can’t win.

    The American people know who you are and they don’t like the smell of you.

  130. kostner: Hillary’s a pragmatist. I think she’s more than willing to wait 4 years to be president. If waffles loses this year, 2012 is Hillary’s nomination to lose. She’d have overwhelming support from the democratic party voters (including AA’s I believe) and the party could not stand in her way. waffles certainly would not be in the picture.

  131. dedfg, lots of things can happen when you are vp, after all they don’t call it a heart beat away for nothing.

    Anything can happen between now and Denver or November and personally if she wasnt in the VP slot then an asshole like Richardson or Edwards would be and if something happened then, they’s get it by default.

    Don’t cut our noses off to spite our faces here. I would rather Hillary was the VP keeping an eye on the son of a bitch than any of his cohorts.

  132. Moon,
    The other night I mused playing nice here could prove critical down the road was because it would in effect endear her to those incomparable douchebags in the DNC.
    It’d make it that much easier for them to slide over when BO tanks in late summer.

    Just a thought – but I still want Denver.

  133. God forbid, but if BO is the president, can he take his teleprompter with him when he meets next year with Iran, Cuba, and North Korea? It’s his “binky”…just like a baby.

    Could we stand to listen to this cadence and preacher voice with that head thrown back for 4 years. NO WE CAN’T, NO WE CAN’T, NO WE CAN’T!!!!!!!!!!!

  134. “It was at that site where Democrat Walter Mondale met with about 2,000 crying supporters on election night to concede the 1984 presidential election to President Ronald Reagan.”

    Hahahahaha! Are you absolutely kidding me!? Oh dear God, this is one of the biggest tragedies any of us could have even imagined. Listen, I say we keep donating to Hillary and push her all the way to the Convention. Mike Huckabee stayed around even though John McCain had actually WON enough pledged delegates to claim their nomination. Obama has not won enough pledged delegates to claim this thing! He is using Super Delegates, so why can’t she stay in and keep fighting???!

  135. Blue Dem, What did you think about her statement saying she’s going to consult with party leaders? That stood out to me.

  136. I am glad she did not concede. I missed the speech. How did it go? And fuck unity, no unity,only McCain if it is not Hillary. No way in hell I am voting for Obama. Never. She should not take Veep,she is too good for that. I am sick of this nonsense, I think and hope people realize that he is a bargain we cannot afford, ahem superdelegates!, and they switch. I am sick of this party, not its ideals and values, but its leadership, rules, and stupidity.

  137. Hillary, dontcha give up. You keep on fightin’ gurl! We are going to fight right here alongside you. You know you can and will. Stay in this and go independant if can, cause we all know that you are the real deal.

    Bring us all home, baaby!

  138. Levon Says:

    June 3rd, 2008 at 10:29 pm
    kostner: Hillary’s a pragmatist. I think she’s more than willing to wait 4 years to be president. If waffles loses this year, 2012 is Hillary’s nomination to lose. She’d have overwhelming support from the democratic party voters (including AA’s I believe) and the party could not stand in her way. waffles certainly would not be in the picture.

    Perfect summation. That’s how I see it.

  139. No Hillary as VP!! Prez ONLY! Screw that VP talk. That’s what Obama wants. For us to just get in line. McCain would be much better than Bush, so if it comes down to it. I will definitely be voting for him over Obama. I’m scared of Obama as a Black woman. You White folks had better sure nough be scared of him and these crazy connections he has.

  140. paula,

    ‘skmf12, Many people here would be upset if HRC was VP, but most of her supporters would be fine with it. I will support her in whatever decision she makes.’

    maybe your right…

    HER BEING V. P. …

    i thought you wanted to fight obama for the safety of america,
    what happened?

  141. Paula,

    It means she’s not giving up.

    She’ll keep working SD’s until they wise up, until something changes, or it comes down to this option we’re talking about here.

    Carville said tonight “it takes time”, give it 3-4 days, which I didn’t like.

    I think she REALLY wants to keep going….

  142. Just sent a message to Hillary via her website. Here’s what I wrote:
    Abraham Lincoln said it best when he delivered his Gettysburg address:

    “This nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom; and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the Earth.”

    Of the people. By the people. For the people. President Lincoln (who, incidentally, didn’t win his Party’s nomination until the third vote at the convention) said nothing about government of the Party elite or government of the delegates. And he certainly said nothing about government of the Rules and Bylaws Committee, which took votes and delegates in my state away from you and gave them to your opponent.

    18 million Americans have voted for you in the primaries. We the people believe that you are the one who will best lead this nation. We the people believe that you are the one who will solve America’s problems, both at home and abroad.

    Keep fighting for the nomination! Take it all the way to Denver if necessary! We the people will stand behind you!

  143. Since when did you work with “friends” from the other party?

    You defended a slum landlord and associated with terrorists–when did you work with Americans BO?

  144. Can we petition her to exploit the possibility of running as an INDY???

    At least they need to lay the groundwork for such scenario. Once she can’t achieve her goal at Denver, I want her to run as INDY.

  145. Have to note, BO with an actual kind word for Bill Clinton.

    That qualifies as begging.


  146. I want Hillary to be President, but regardless through this primary season I’ve found my hero.

    A leader to look up to
    A person to stand for
    A woman to love
    A hero that makes me proud to say…
    “My first ever vote was for Hillary Clinton”

  147. Obama supporters know that he cannot win without Hillary. Is this what we can expect next from them?

  148. Look guys, You know I am one of Hillary’s staunchest supporters but i know when faced with hard choices we need to be ready to strike and we cannot do that if we are put outside.

    Its easier to win the prize from inside because don’t kid yourself they have put a brick wall every step of the way. Sometimes you have to lie down with the dogs to kill the fleas.

    I looked at it last night, 2012 is a huge problem, you have young un’s coming up on the rails and i honestly think if Obama loses in 2008, you are going to have Warner up in 2012 or Webb or a few others. HRC is not going to get a look in 2012.

  149. Hey Sugar!

    How dare the Party bosses do this to us! Who the hell do they think they are? The will of the people is with Hillary.

  150. Do you guys think Ahmadinajad or Al Queda cares if Obama can deliver speeches? Are they going to fawn over it like the Obamabots do?

  151. in MT so far it’s 51-46 Obama leading and CNN projected BO the winner

    be interesting to see if Hillary wins far better in SD then BO in MT – it shows Hillarys been able to close the gap despite Obama claiming he’ll win both by a bigger margin

  152. Hey mj! How dare they!!! I’m so fed up with this Democratic party right now I don’t know what to do with myself. I say we keep going to Denver. She should give a strong speech next Monday and throw down the gauntlet. Besides, so much negative crap is coming out about BHO every week, he will be done before August even gets here so long as she keeps in this thing. If she drops out, we will be without a hope at all because he can not win.

  153. moononpluto, if Hillary is in VP slot, those Warner, Webb won’t have a chance to get national attention. BHO will loose for sure.

  154. If Hillary does not prevail in Denver, VP is an option. Think about it, with this guy’s past and his friends he will probably have to resign within 2 years if he were to win (hopefully a little over 2 years). It has been over 30 years since a president did not serve out his full term, a long time in our history.


    DATE: June 3, 2008 10:29 PM CDT
    NAME: xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    ADDRESS: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    AMOUNT: $18.44

    18 for the 18 million people that voted for her and 44 because I still believe that she will be America’s 44th President. Rock On Hillary!!!!!!

  156. ADMIN,

    I went to contact us at the bottom of hillarys site to leave my
    message, was that the right place?
    cause i didnt see any other place…

  157. That speech was amazing. One of her best of the campaign, if not her best. The part about NYC and the Twin Towers and America had my eyes filled with tears.

    If you haven’t already done so please go and donate (if you’re able) and let them know that you want Hillary to go to Denver.

    As much as I liked Hillary before, my respect for her — after watching this speech, thinking of what she has faced from the jerks at CNN, MSNBC, … and knowing what she has gone through this campaign — is almost beyond words now.

    That a woman who knows she has been treated with contempt and derision by her own party’s leadership (all despite their knowing she has the clear majority of the party’s rank and file behind her) can still be so strong, gracious and inspiring is incredible. All of the world’s girls and women can watch her and draw strength and resolve from how she handles herself, as can we men.

    I have no desire to watch Obama’s speech. It is irrelevant to me and couldn’t begin to live up to what Hillary delivered tonight.

    Thank you, South Dakota. You have ended the primary season with the latest in a series of back-breaking double-digit losses for a man whose own spreadsheet had HIM winning your primary by double digits. John Zogby and California, meet Barack Obama and South Dakota.

    Another fantastic night. And on we go.

    Let’s keep supporting our gal. Tonight and tomorrow are very important times to express that support via her website and on this and other blogs.

    End the ‘racist’ drama — say “HELL NO!” to Obama

    Paul F. Villarreal
    Join the 30,000+ in over 100 countries on 6 continents who have seen the truth about Barack Hussein Obama

    The Essential Obama videos:

    Barack Obama, Islam, Terrorists & Terrorism

    The Obama Cult (Ruby Ridge Remix)

    The Obama Equation

    Michelle Obama: First Lady of Hate

  158. What that prick Gergen forgot to also point out, is that after Checkers speech, like it or not, Nixon won twice…what a fucking back stabbing prick he is.

  159. I just posted at

    [Taylor had posted]:
    By the way, the “raging battle” with my readers is real. Some of you know all about it. It’s that I will work to keep John McCain from winning in November, while some of you, plus many other lurkers will not. I push back on that all the time. It’s a “raging battle” around here, as I see it. It’s healthy, but it’s real.

    Well, that’s encouraging for me to continue much posting at I was worried I’d be upsetting you by pushing the case for vote strike, and posting urls that support it.

    I won’t push the issue here past the convention, but till then I really think the best way to defeat McCain in Nov is to defeat Obama now, so we need to show the SDs just HOW MANY of us would strike, and how serious we are.

    If we can convince them they will really lose our votes in Nov, then maybe they will nominate Hillary and we will never have to actually MAKE that choice.

  160. Look, if Bush hasn’t resigned or even been impeached for leading us into a freaking war and all Bill did was get his peter sucked, let’s not start opining about Obama being forced to resign. That wouldn’t happen. Besides, we will win the majority in Congress and no Democratic congress would force him out anyway. Let’s be realistic here.

  161. skmf12, Polls show the majority of Hillary supporters are fine with her in the No. 2 slot. That’s what I’m referring to.

  162. Per NRO:

    Hillary’s End [Lisa Schiffren]

    That was a very strong performance we just saw from Hillary. Her voice was firm, fresh and commanding. Her tone was perfect — no false joviality and nothing sentimental or self-pitying. She has set a new standard for women candidates for high office. She did a better job than anyone I can recall who has just lost a race. (For all that talk about about 2012, unless Bill is gone, I just don’t see who her donor base is.) Ideology to the side, she was Thatcheresque in her ability to hold the crowd and exude confidence and power. I hate the cliche as much as anyone, but her performance will matter to little girls in years to come. My 10-year-old was pretty impressed by her strength and seeming seriousness of purpose.

    Progressives — for instance at the Nation or Huffington Post — are all quite unimpressed by it, but I still take it as a given that the ability to exude strength is a sine qua non for success in a presidential race. (Acting on it in office is good too.) Barack Obama is very smart, politcally facile, and has a persona that obviously appeals to many classes of Americans. But he doesn’t exude that aura of strength. It will be interesting to see how he brings it to the ticket without having it upstage him. As Victor pointed out earlier, Obama will look a tad weaker when he rejects her as VP. If he is foolish enough to put her on the ticket — and I can’t imagine that he is — he will looked weaker still.

  163. Just weighing in.. I disagree with Hillary waiting until 2012. She has leverage and huge support right now…that may not be there in four years. Also, as unthinkable as this is, Obama could win. Then 2012 would not be open to Hillary as he would run for reelection.

    While I would like her to keep going and fight it out at the convention, I would also respect her decision if she is offered VP and chooses to take it. I think she would only accept a VP slot with some real power and also the chance to head up the fight for universal health care. While the thought of her being Obama’s running mate and campaigning for him positively and absolutely disgusts me, I can see where she might view it as a strategic chance to influence policy and achieve some of the goals she has set out in her own campaign. She would also be breaking part of the glass ceiling of the executive branch as the first woman in that office.

    The one thing I don’t want her to do is just quit. She has power right now to have an influence on what will happen. I think she should use it..

  164. you people need to get a memory,

    obama hates hillary clinton, michelle hates hillary clinton,
    pelosi and friends hate hillary clinton.

    if hillary forces her way in to that position, they will make sure
    to screw her with all they’ve got…

    they hate her, operative word here: HATE

  165. Hello Hill friends…Hillary was great tonight…she is so optimistic and has a cheer and a joy about her…she has that beautiful smile that lights up her face and the whole room and those big expressive eyes…and you feel like she is talking to you not at you…her courage, her strength, her determination and her brilliance are unique…

    …and then there is obama…he looks so angry and sounds so loud and abrupt with his head going back and forth…left to right…always reading the teleprompter…

    …the dnc, the media, the delegates and the obama camp have forced this guy down our throats the whole primary season…it will be interesting to see how much time it takes to spit him out during the General Election…

    …I cannot believe the American people will vote this man into the presidency…

  166. Right now I don’t think even Hillary or Bill knows what she is going to do for sure. That much is obvious.

    I think she’s keeping her options open. But floating the VP idea strongly backs waffles into a corner. I’m sure he’s going to try and do everything in his power to stop the notion of Hillary as VP, but she’s in the driver’s seat as far as this point is concerned.

    I strongly believe that waffles WILL NOT offer Hillary the VP slot, and I also strongly suspect Hillary knows he won’t. MO won’t let him 🙂 waffles not offering the VP slot to Hillary further weakens his chances in November. If he loses the election, Hillary doesn’t look like the cause of it. After all, she was willing to be on the ticket with him.

    On the other hand, if Hillary vociferously (sp?) challenges waffles all the way up to the convention, there’s a distinct possibility she would be at least partially blamed for a waffles loss in November.

    So in short, I think the VP notion is a way to challenge waffles in this passive-agressive manner.

    My 2 cents anyway. Feel free to slice and dice my ideas. I have no delusions about my ability to read politicians minds 🙂

  167. This “powerful VP” stuff is a dream. Obama and those thugs would offer her that position, use her to win and then relegate her to missions in Djbouti because he is too much of an ego-maniac to try to give her of all people “you’re likeable enough Hillary” some “power”. Let’s be realistic here.

  168. OBAMA reading another telepromoted speech and he was not speaking to whiteys.He was speaking to all AA to begin the fight for the cause of black supremacy with no holds barred.He was talking about Recreate68.and yhe need to get ready should he lose this campaign because of Mo and her wildly racist VIDEO.
    Keep tuned in folks it is going to be a rough ride if the CHicago mob starts the race fires burning.


    BY ABM90

  169. The Obamazoids already know he’s going to lose and they are already blaming her, convention be damned.

  170. well american girl,

    i respectfully disagree, and promise you i will never vote for hillary
    if she joins the obama team.
    her on the ticket does not change every filthy thing we’ve learned
    about him.
    even hillary should have some standards…
    also her new companion, would be the one to call me racisct, and
    the one to call her husband a racist, if she condones that,
    than i’ve lost all respect for her…

  171. I seriously would piss myself laughing if the republicans dropped a campaign killer video on Obama tomorrow.

  172. in fact they probably have that much dirt on Obama on video, it could be the daily video bombshell until he drops out.

  173. Just donated $44.44 and sent message to Hillary to STAY IN AND FIGHT FOR US. He was handed the nomination with 59 delegates (4 of hers) for a PHANTOM candidate. Delegates that he DID NOT WIN. Encouraged her to stay in and BE THERE FOR US as the “closet full” of shoes begin to fall, because EIGHTEEN MILLION OF US AND COUNTING ARE THERE FOR HER.
    Email her tonight and DONATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  174. Sugar,
    I was speculating on the Power VP idea (because I’m trying to assume there is at least some credence to the numerous reports that Hillary is at least considering it, as I think she has to be),
    but I don’t disagree with a single thing you said. None of it.

    I wouldn’t even trust them to keep their word after they offered it and she conceded and endorsed him. It’s not what I would do.

    I would go to Denver. Period.

  175. skmf12, I agree with what you are saying. But what Hillary ultimately decides to do depends on her goals for the future and the political landscape. If I were a candidate and it looked like I might be frozen out of a position of influence even though I was the major vote getter I might consider an offer of VP (or push for VP) rather than be relegated back to being a US Senator shut out by the party. At least there would be a chance of influencing policy as a VP.

    I think that Obama and his camp do indeed hate Hillary and would like her to just go away. But like John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson Obama may know that he needs her to win. He can’t let her supporters to to McCain or that may sink his election bid.

    I don’t want Hillary as VP, but if it happens it will be OK because I know she will be looking out for those who supported her.

  176. I know that we are yearning for a win (Democrats). It will have been a long 8 years with Bush, but have you guys not been following all of the dirt and grime on BHO? He SHOULD NOT be president. We can’t just get behind him simply because he’s a Democrat. With the way things went down this past Saturday, quite frankly, I don’t know how any of us have calmed down YET! We are so used to labeling the Republicans thugs, but that was a thugish move that those folks sitting around that table pulled in that building. Imagine if it had happened to you! Your vote had been diminished and someone decided how you intended to vote.

  177. Did you see the little “brother” handshake he and MO made as he was about to speak..truly revolting. Best cases 1) damaging stuff comes out and Hillary comes in or 2) she tacitly supports him and he loses. We then wait for 2012….

  178. Hillary: first Independent party president?
    Despite the skewed numbers, polls show the general election would be fairly even regardless of which Democrat runs against McCain. If Obama and Hilary each receive 35 percent or more of the popular vote and can carry the big states with the majority of electoral votes, there’s a 50-50 chance an Independent Hilary can win the White House.
    Hillary could become the first woman president, Bill will be the original “first man,” probably the first time in his life he can say that, and the voters will have real choices in a three party political system.
    With Hillary as a third-party president, she would be in position to clean up the monopoly of influence and corruptive power in Washington. And the words of John Quincy Adams would be prophetic: “Voters would cherish the sweetest reflections that our vote is never lost

  179. Donna Brazile is such a troublemaker…she is so full of herself… is trying to box Hillary into a corner…saying she wasn’t gracious…she’s disappointed in Hillary…bla, bla…and David Gergen. Gloria Borgia, Turbin…all of them…screw them all…they want unity if it serves them…if it helps them…

    Turbin says “deranged narcisissm of Clintons”

    they are all just looking to make trouble for Hillary…they are like a bunch of vultures…

    for obama’s camp there idea of unity is what you can do for them, otherwise they tell you what is wrong with you…

  180. SUGAR,

    so true.
    and can we let this evil into our white house?
    can we let this evil take over the democratic party?

    can hillary?

  181. skmf12, I would have difficulty voting for an Obama/Clinton ticket as well. Don’t misunderstand…I don’t like this idea AT ALL, but I can see where there might be some strategy involved. Kennedy/Johnson didn’t like each other at all yet they ran on the same ticket. Again, I’m not saying that’s what I want, it’s just happened in the past.

    I also donated to Hillary tonight..I wonder how much she will raise by tomorrow?

  182. Blue Democrat, absolutely right. She’s come this far, she may as well take it to Denver. We are 18 million strong. It’s not as if we are 5 million in number. I repeat, Obama SHOULD NOT be president. I’m going to tell you guys. I’ve seen some of these Nation of Islam events up close and in person and they get crazy. Obama is running around with an awful lot of folks connected to that group. This is not about just winning with any old candidate and Obama is unfit to be president.

  183. But like John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson Obama may know that he needs her to win. He can’t let her supporters to to McCain or that may sink his election bid.

    Bingo. And any VP he picks other than HRC will pale in comparison to her.

  184. I think it’s amazing that she actually won South Dakota. That is really really significant.

    Take it to Denver.

  185. Borger acted like she was horrified with Hillary’s speech as did Turbin , et al..Carville stated clearly that no one in Hillary’s camp said she was going to concede so why all the shock…total phonies….

  186. S,

    i feel your horror…

    i could not in all good concience see these piranhas in the white
    house, nor hillary at their beck and call as vp

  187. I just got the email from Ausman. I of course immediately thank him for standing tall in Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton’s Corner.

  188. Blue Democrat: Hillary as independent would ensure McCain is 44.

    I’m not against that, if waffles is the Dem nominee. However, Hillary could never become POTUS as a Dem if she ran as an indy.

    The reason I don’t think she can win, is because 95% of AA’s would vote for waffles, and they make up about 30% of the dem party. McCain will pull in his share of independents. That leaves Hillary with moderate white Dems. Not enough of them to beat McCain I’m afraid.

  189. Good for Carville, lol. This speech was for the country and her supporters, not the dumbass pundits.

  190. How did that the cow of a woman become Chair of the DNC and how can we fire her? Is it an appointed position?

  191. whew……long phone call…..

    so what did i miss??? besides BO speech and the pundits nasty comments??

  192. These people just want US (hill’s supporters) to roll over for Obama. SORRY not going to happened.


    that would be the first step towards UNITY

  193. Blue Democrat: Hillary as independent would ensure McCain is 44.

    Levon, you say it like that’s a bad thing.

  194. I wonder if Senator Johnson will endorse Hillary as he said he will go with whomever won his state

  195. any VP he picks other than HRC will show that he is afraid of her…basically admitting that she outshines him…is smarter…did get more votes…who else would he pick…HALF OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY VOTED FOR HER…they want her…

    Rasmussen just said Lanny Davis is starting a petition for Hillary and the implication was for the VP spot…

    I hope something in fate intercedes and Obama is out…some scandal, whatever…but if we are stuck with him I want Hillary as close to the seat of power as possible…she can keep an eye on things…and be ready to step in when he screws up…

    how in the hell can obama talk about unity and reject hillary…unity starts with Hillary if the dems have any hope at winning…rasmussen just said obama is a high risk factor…that is putting it mildly…

    evidently hillary’s speech really stunned all the pundits tonight…she is talking her 18 million votes and not shrinking from her power….Hill our 44th…

  196. It’s all SOS with the pundits. Hill’s wrong – again.

    Somehow winning SD and making ‘no decisions’ makes her the bad guy (girl 🙂

    She was supposed to bow at his feet – in their whacked out, deceitful, fuck-up world.

  197. uh,

    excuse me levon, but us latinos do count you know?
    and we would follow hillary anywhere, and so would the asian block,
    and the women, and lbgt, and maybe some other voting blocs…

  198. I am with those who will not support Obama no matter who is on the VP slot.

    In any case, if it became reality, he would be so afraid of her power. He would just stick her in some corner and tell her to keep her trap shut unless spoken to. Their relationship would keep the gossip mill perpetually busy. It would be a fiasco. Remember SNL?

    Think this through. If he runs and she is not on the ticket, he will lose. She can try again later. If she is on the ticket, he may win. Then she can never be President. It could be eight years until the next chance. If she were 10 years younger, it could happen. But she is not.

    This is a no brainer. It is just a talking point for the media. (See, already meat for gossip). This kind of stuff sells well.

  199. Levon, ya know. I’m in complete agreement with you. I don’t think she will run as an Indy — even if she did, she won’t win. The next best thing is to defeat BO and prepare for 2012.

  200. Levon, I think that you’ve overestimated our totals in the Democratic Party. I think it’s more like 15 percent.

  201. filbertsf Says:

    June 3rd, 2008 at 11:05 pm
    How did that the cow of a woman become Chair of the DNC and how can we fire her? Is it an appointed position?

    I just had the most horrible thought…first off we will never get rid of donna brazile with obama in….donna is probably having fantasties of putting herself on the ticket as VP, NOT!!!

  202. please, maybe the moon will fall into the sea, and than obama would get hit by a piece and hillary would be potus,
    so she should be vp now…

    uhhhh good luck with that…

  203. She’s behind about 17 points in MT. It looks like they didn’t have great turnout. Is that the case?

  204. skmf12: so sorry there bud… you’re right, she would get the Latino vote too. No doubt about that. And she would get the lions share of Women democrats. Still not enough to offset the defection of 95% AA’s.

  205. Hey guys! A thought just came to me. How about Hillary as Supreme Court Justice? Ginsburg is getting along in years. I can’t think of a better person to replace her — or any of the other retiring Justices.

    President Taft was not a very good President. The job just didn’t suit him well. However, he reveled at his role as a Justice.

  206. filbert, they said BO won’t pick her because she’s too old and he will want someone young like Roberts and Alito.

  207. Sugar: Really? I heard that the Dem party was about 30% AA. AA’s are about 12% of US Population. I would assume most are Dem’s. About 35% of the country is Dems. Heck, my head hurts so I don’t want to do all the math now. But 15% sounds way too low.

  208. so not sure what we are doing. she doesnt concede-says go to her website and help her out. how can she win the nom? really depressed.

  209. Pat Cadell just hit the nail on head…he said Hillary has comes the closet to the Presidency in history…closer than anyone else…reagan…all of them…and we all know, that hill really won it…except for the rigging and manipulation of the dnc…and the cowards of delegates who went against their own districts…

  210. Gosh,

    Why does anybody have this absurd idea of Hillary being a supreme court justice…. To muzzle her for good?

    It’s such a laughable idea.

  211. no, to the supreme court for hillary…that is like putting her away in storage for the rest of her life…

    no, I would rather see Hillary as Attorney General or Secretary of State…but first and foremost as our next President…August and November are still a long way off…

    forgive my spelling mistakes above…

  212. He will choose a younger woman surrogate, one he can dominate, to be his VP if he wants to go after her voters.

    An Obama/Clinton marriage would end up in divorce court. Everyone knows this. How about Bill and Michelle palling around DC together? Not much chance. Chelsea baby-sitting for the Obamas?

  213. kostner: 15% in the general I could believe. But remember, the lion’s share of voters for Hillary will come from the Dem party, hence the numbers I provided. Sure, she would win a good number of independents and even some Republicans, but not nearly enough to win.

    She would however, take a HELL OF A BITE out of waffles numbers 😀

  214. kostner, you think I’m absurd? Do you know how powerful a SCourt Justice is? Arguably, it’s more powerful than a President. They can influence generations of American. Justice Warren is gone and buried, but his legacy will last long after your great-great-great-grandchildren are dead.

  215. Levon, I feel your pain (lol), but with the growing Hispanic population in this country, we don’t have the power that we once had. We just don’t. Even if every AFrican-american in this country votes for Obama, he still can’t win the general. If she gets even the 5-10 percent of us who are supporting her and the other more reliable voting blocs, she actually does have a better chance of winning than him.




    ALL or DENVER!!!

  217. S, are you kidding me? You dismiss a lifetime appointment, but hoop and holler about a Cabinet Position that will last maybe only 8 years?

    Who was Bill Clinton’s Atty General and Sec. of State. Quick, give me their names and don’t look it up.

    Now, who was Justice Earl Warren? Even if you don’t know what he did, you know who he is.

  218. By the way, I have a man-crush on Terry McAuliffe. He’s got to be my absolute favorite Hillary supporter.

  219. Hillary is 60?? or so? I say go for it, Hillary. Your future is the Presidency—it’s now or never. Do whatever it takes to get there.

  220. Please STOP all the VP crap…I DON’T WANT OBAMA AS PRESIDENT!

    It’s Hillary or McCain, period and since neither can win without SD’s Hillary has just as much right to go to DENVER and plead her case to them.

    Three months is a very long time in the scheme of politics and Obambi is very weak…he will NOT win the G.E.

  221. “All or Denver” carbynew! No Hillary as VP (candidate). I don’t think even with her he can win. I think what may happen if she decides to take him up on any offer he might make is a deal to pay off her debts. She knows he’s going to get his ass kicked anyway, so why not tool around the country for a few months and feign support? We have only had two Democratic presidents in the last few decades and all of a sudden the country is going to elect one as inexperienced and flawed as BHO? Let’s be realistic here! McCain will only serve one term, but if BHO is the nominee, McCain will be the nominee, whether BHO offers her the VP spot or not.

  222. Sugar: “we don’t have the power that we once had”.

    In the Dem primary AA’s certainly do 🙂

  223. lets be clear about the VP situation regardless of what BHO or the pundits say…the delegates select the VP not the candidate……and trust me Hillary has the necessary delegates to get that spot ……..if she wants it.

  224. BTW, I’m not saying I don’t want her as POTUS. Let’s go to Denver.

    However, I would rather her be a Justice than play second fiddle to BO.

  225. With Hillary as VP, maybe Michelle and Bill can go on joint preaching tours on the Black Church circuit to go after Whitey, the bitters, guns and bibles. Bill used to like attending Black churches back in the good old days.

  226. debbie: I don’t think Hillary would force the VP slot on waffles via a delegate. In fact, I don’t think she wants the VP slot at all. It does give her tremendous leverage however.

  227. I live in Ohio. I can predict one thing with great assurance, BO will never win this state. Hillary, easily. With Gov. Strickland…very easily.

  228. paddy4hill…if he picks another woman that will be the end for him…he will be pouring salt to the wound for the hill supporters and show that he cares nothing about unity….the only unity ticket that exists is bringing the other half of the democratic party back together…the party that he split right down the middle and walked away and voted for hillary….the only chance he has of any unity is hillary…that is a no brainer…

    hillary is brilliant…if she is angling for VP, she knows what she is doing…she may know of stuff that will come out later…and she will be right there to take over…

    as for supreme court, filbertsf, it is not that it isn’t a good idea…what you say it true but it isn’t the best place for Hillary and her skills…she is a born leader…on the court she would be one of nine and tucked away in their towers…no, our Hillary needs to be front and center…fighting the good fight…she is too young for the supreme court…

  229. sorry, meant to say ‘I don’t think Hillary would force the VP slot on waffles via a delegate vote.’

  230. birdgal Says:

    June 3rd, 2008 at 11:26 pm
    filberts: Janet Reno -AG

    Madeline Albright-SOS

    Bah humbug!

  231. I think the ultimate VP question is not whether BO would go for it, or even if he would tailor it to Hill’s demands.

    It’s whether she wants it.

  232. Blue Democrat: I agree. However, Hillary will force the issue either way (whether she wants it or not).

  233. Guys Obama wants Safe Woman
    Not one as strong as Hillary.

    It’s hard to shine when you stand next to the sun.
    Hillary is the SUN.

  234. O has significant health risks with his smoking and stress. This was mentioned in his health report.

    He might be younger, but he is not healthier. In fact, I really think this campaign has really harmed him health wise. He looks depressed, he has lost his church, and who knows what will happen next week. He is constantly in a defensive positon, and probably will be that way until he loses.

    Prime candidate for significant health problems, and you have to worry about that.

  235. Blue Democrat, I’m hoping that if he even offers it to her, she’ll tell him to go fugg himself and let get back to business in the Senate and pondering whether she needs to make a go of it in 2012.

  236. Plessy vs Ferguson
    Brown vs Board of Education
    Roe vs Wade
    Miranda vs Arizona
    Bush vs Gore

    These rulings by nine justices “tucked away in their towers” changed our society and the American legal system forever.

    Okay, I’ll stop. Let’s go to Denver!

  237. If he got all African Americans to vote for him,they currently make up 16% of the electorate, so I can’t seeing it having too much of an effect. The largest swing voting blocks are white women and Latinos, neither of which he does well with. He will lose if he is nominated, for real nominated,not fake Michigan delegates nominated.

  238. ah paddy,

    that would be a sight to see…

    hey paddy, is it true we’ve all got a bit of the irish in us?


  239. shenanigans: Ain’t that the truth.

    Here’s the list of things they want Hillary to do:

    1) get out of the way and concede the race
    2) but don’t go too far, because we need you to help us win the election
    3) endorse waffles
    4) win back all of your supporters who waffles has alienated through his own butt-hole-ery (is that even a word?)
    5) NOW get out of the way for good

    Sorry folks, but that’s a fools errand 🙂

  240. For those here who don’t know me, I drop in from time to time. When I let lose here I, well I get a rebuke. So let me be oblique – I pray something comes between him and the nomination. A scandal, a skeleton rattling. I don’t care. To the Dukakis, Mondale, Carter, Gore, Kerry boneyard with him.

    I am an elected PC who will use the tools available to me to destroy this MoFu.

  241. I just read the transcript of her speech, and I am crying my eyes out. What a wonderful person.

  242. How would Bill feel as a former President, being “Second Gentleman?” Too humiliating. Even for the country perhaps. He gets a daily security briefing, Secret Service protection, etc. Too much for Obama to stomach also. Almost like having two presidents. Bill may not want to keep in the background. May say things to the press etc. Just too weird. Will not happen.

  243. Sugar,

    I wanted her to tell him tonight!

    No matter what they say, she is in a commanding position.

    Only she can unite or shread the party.

  244. Wagner, there was a question asked if everyone has a little Irish? I’m full Irish. We’re fighters. I’ll help you destroy that moFu. Tiocfaidh Ar La! (our day will come)

  245. Sugar, I hear what you are saying…I am torn…I want Hill as president…if we are forced to have him, part of me wants her in number two spot because she can step right in and with her strength of personality and intelligence she would carve out a niche for herself…and 2012 is a LONG way off…anything can happen between…

    on the other hand….I do not want her associated with him in any way because it seems now that we are going into the GE, the repubs will go after him and i don’t want her part of that mess…

    I will take all my cues from Hillary…if she wants the spot and lanny davis is already starting a campaign for her to be VP…then she wants it for a reason…I will be watching to see what she wants…and i hope she gets what she wants…

    i know i will be hitting mute button with obama bec i cannot take him…he is irritating…

  246. Levon

    Here’s the list of things they want Hillary to do:

    1) get out of the way and concede the race
    2) but don’t go too far, because we need you to help us win the election
    3) endorse waffles
    4) win back all of your supporters who waffles has alienated through his own butt-hole-ery (is that even a word?)
    5) NOW get out of the way for good

    Excellent post.

  247. filbersf, your point is well taken…I just don’t think it is something Hillary wants…she is too dynamic…

    but a supreme court spot is a very important spot…you are right about that…

  248. dedfg: thanks. The DNC think Hillary’s going to be their puppet. I think Hillary told them tonight that she’s going to play this HER WAY.

  249. You guys I know some of us are upset with the prospect of Hillary taking the VP offer. I think its apart of her plan. Assuage the AA and appear to support the race baiter Obama, and then when he loses, she’s the automatic front runner for 2012. She knows something we don’t!

    On a side note, I never thought that I would be ashamed if an AA being the presumptive nominee, but I am!

  250. S, number two is not number one and the number one in question would be Obama if they use her over and trick us into voting for him. He’s not going to let her, nor would she have the authority to, step in and carve out anything. I’m telling you. If she decides to take that VP spot, it’s only to have her debts paid off. Period. We barely even saw Al Gore during Bill’s presidency!

  251. skmf12: true dat!! I’m not a very frequent poster on this board, but I read it religiously. Tonight I feel like contributing 🙂

  252. Warehouse553, I’m ashamed of him too. Honest to God I am and when the real deal is finally hashed out in the MSM about his ties to the Nation of Islam and those kooks, I’ll be even more ashamed.

  253. warehouse553: I’ve been thinking the same thing. However, there are some here that feel she won’t have the donor base to be the 2012 frontrunner. Who knows for sure? I think that 2012 would be almost automatic for her, but I thought that about 6 months ago too 🙁

  254. We can’t let this site die – we need to go into scorched earth mode. It will require posting as a Dem not aligned with Hill but against Obama, without being overt.

    Like “I am a Democrat, but I have reservations about Obama. I’m just not sure he is ready to be president. I am worried about his ties to radicals and if he could provide security for me and my family. He seems to be a nice guy, but, I have worries. Safety for my family comes before all else..”

    You get the idea. Fan out to every news site available.

  255. wagner1jc: I don’t think the folks who post her (me included) are obliged to be that discreet 😀

  256. So um… does anyone want to share what they wrote to Hillary?:

    This is what I said:

    Hillary, fight for your place in history. You are everything I want in a President: intelligent, compassionate, hard-working, resourceful, experience, and above all, the will and ability to make the impossible, possible.

    Whatever you decide, you have my support.

  257. I’m hoping this VP negotiation crap is just a stall so that if the tape comes out, Hillary can say she was being cooperative, because YOU KNOW they will try and blame her.

    I’d hate to see her sign on with a losing candidate. Look what happened with Edwards.

    BTW, Brazile making an ASS of herself on Nightline.

  258. NewMexicoFan,

    he has lost his church….

    I like this jab…LOL… Frankly, to watch Bambi, his bots and MSM go through the Chinese water torture really makes me giddy…

  259. filbertsf,

    I ask her to consider running as an independent. I told her they do not owe the current corrupt party anything.

  260. I’m listening to this democratic fool on FNC and the next “bright” idea is to place a women on the ticket with Obambi….The Democratic IDIOTS really do not respect us or want our votes.

    How INSULTING and so very sexist!

    Women are the backbone of the DEMOCRATIC PARTY and the party allowed SEXISM AS A TACTIC to bring down the first women candidate to have a serious chance at becoming POTUS on her OWN merits.

    THIS IS WAR!!!

  261. Levon

    He just has to lose without her being blamed. Something will come out about him. I know it! Her supporters, we, have to vote against this ticket. She will then say I did everything possible but you chose the wrong nominee!

  262. Levon…I think you hit it on the head…Hillary is not backing down…she is doing it her way…she is our fighter…and if she has to fight the dnc she will

    btw…how stupid are chris matthews and howard fineman…between manbc and cnn – a bunch of idiots who have no idea what they are talking about…like a bunch of gossiping vultures…

  263. here’s my email to Hillary:

    For my own selfish reasons, this ardent Hillary Clinton supporter would like to respectfully ask that you fight for the correct decision regarding the seating of the Michigan delegates. The May 31, 2008 decision is an outrage to our great democracy and should not be allowed to stand.

    In the end however, I think you will do what feels right to you, and what brings you the most happiness.

    I have an endearing, profound fondness for you that goes beyond my ability to express it. I wish to personally thank you and Bill for all that you have done, and will continue do, for this great country of ours.

    Best wishes,

  264. okay again,

    can anyone tell me if i wrote my letter to hillary at the right place please, remember i’m elderly and make mistakes…LOL

    did we do it under- ‘contact us’- at the bottom of hills site page?

  265. Paddy, I agree the VP thing any way you look at it, does not seem to work. I also think it was distorted by the media as usual. She was asked about it and she gave a stock reply. Of course, we don’t know what is going on behind the scenes. Now many seem to have realized he needs her to win but can’t put her on the ticket. So will these same people at some point start thinking may be her rightful place is the top of the ticket to win in November? How will that happen? She needs to stay put until August with her 18 million strong to give them a chance to come around.

  266. carbynew Says:

    June 3rd, 2008 at 11:56 pm
    I’m listening to this democratic fool on FNC and the next “bright” idea is to place a women on the ticket with Obambi….The Democratic IDIOTS really do not respect us or want our votes.

    How INSULTING and so very sexist!

    Women are the backbone of the DEMOCRATIC PARTY and the party allowed SEXISM AS A TACTIC to bring down the first women candidate to have a serious chance at becoming POTUS on her OWN merits.

    THIS IS WAR!!!

    Another prime example of dismissiveness, divisiveness, condenscending behavior, cluelessness, sexism, abuse, and marginalization of women. What these clueless idiots don’t realize, it is not just about being a woman, but people love Hillary. 18 million people voted for this woman, and not all of them were women.

  267. pm Says:
    June 3rd, 2008 at 11:59 pm

    She needs to stay put until August with her 18 million strong to give them a chance to come around.

    I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY. He didn’t WIN the nomination with pledged delegates outright and there are still many more Supers who have not declared.

  268. warehouse553: I agree. If she’s not the nominee, that’s the next best thing. Nothing is for sure in politics, but Hillary’s smart and will play the odds.

  269. I have had a horrible night, the nazi boss I work struck again, and of coarse I with tonight with an Arab, Obama supporter. Does that tell you how my night went.

    Well did she win SD big or was it tight? Did she say what she is going to do?

  270. Alright, I’m off to bed before I work myself into an ulcer. lol Good night and get that VP stuff out of your minds!! Sheesh, the guy declares HIMSELF the nominee and some of you guys are ready to just roll on over. lol We have not exhausted all resources yet. Keep fighting. Hillary or McCain ’08!

  271. S: Yeppers… you think they would have figured out our girl by now, but it seems as though it hasn’t quite sunk in to some of the thicker skulls 🙂

  272. haha, BO called Hill & got her voicemail.

    Keep tryin’ Barack!

    Maybe U2 can talk face-to-face…. in Colorado!

  273. confloyd: If you go to TM, there is a transcript of her speech. Plus, up thread are some clips. It was a wonderful speech, and she did not concede.

    She won SD, by 12 pts (I think); MT, she lost by a larger margin.

    Sorry, for your terrible night, with those horrible people. You’ll get the last laugh on them.

  274. Hillary Clinton is running to be the POTUS so she better suck it up and not care if she make some none elected party person mad.

    She has RIGHTS that have been violated by those lying pieces of sh*t in our own party who think they can dictate to us who will be the next president.

    The put downs, the dissmissive, demeaning attitude and the blatant sexism and other crap throw at her supporters is very telling in the lack of respect and values this democratic party has to one of their core group.

    So I say we continue all the way to DENVER and make those fools honor their own rules.

    Hillary will NOT concede anything to that snake and should not reward this lying cynical party. Since the Party declared war on us and think that Roe vs Wade is going to control us…I say BRING IT ON and LET’S RUMBLE!!!

  275. Tonight has been amazing,in both good and bad ways.

    Hillary, let’s not forget, UPSET Obama in South Dakota,the last day of the primaries.

    Barack Obama got nominated by the Democratic Party’s Rules Committee.

    Hillary Clinton got nominated by Democrats, and no one in the msm or in campHope got the message.

    I am now firm in my support for Senator McCain should Obama survive past Denver.

    I am quite confident Hillary Clinton will take this to Denver, even if this means suspending her campaign and doing SD and Delegate work behind the curtains.

    I am almost sure I am going to Denver.

    Hillary Clinton is a woman for the ages, an icon. No one can change that, not the DNC, not a freshman senator from Illinois, not John Edwards, not Ted Kennedy, not Tom Daschle, not Chris Matthews, not Tim Russert. She won more votes than any person in a primary in US History. She is a phenomenon. A phenomenon that I will follow to Denver. I don’t want to talk of vice president yet.

    I am not sure how this will turn out. I am for once in this campaign without a guess as to where this nomination will end up, because super delegates can change their minds, certain videos can emerge, things can come up between now and August, one hopes.

    I will never be the same because of this woman. This was my first election, I am 20. She is the reason I became interested in politics, and thus why I changed my major to International Relations/Political Science, and ergo she will be a key figure in my entire lifetime, I can say that with confidence. She will be a figure for the ages. My 10 year old sister had a class project and the kids had to choose a person, anyone in history to dress up as and give a report on,she chose Hillary Clinton. She got an A 🙂

    I cried tonight, the third time this campaign season (1st was after we lost my state,Iowa, and 2nd was when she won NH).

    We all will cry, have cried, and are currently crying.

    Hillary has cried.

    God bless her.

    Now, on to Denver people!

  276. confloyd: last I checked, she was about 10,000 votes ahead, or 8 percentage points. That was with 89% reporting. It’s already been called for her.

    w w

  277. from larry at noquarter:

    By Larry Johnson

    I never cease to be astonished by the base ignorance of the Obama crowd. They have spread the word claiming that I said I have the tape and was going to produce it. What? Nope. Nevr wrote that. They have a reading comprehension problem. If I had the tape I would put it up in a heartbeat. While it is true I am relying on second hand sources, my immediate sources are trusthworty. They are not related to each other. They hold different political views. But all tell the same story–there is a tape of Michelle Obama appearing at a conference with Louis Farrakhan had she says some very disparaging things about white people.

    My sources tell me the Republicans who have the tape are hanging on to it and do not (I REPEAT FOR YOU OBAMA CLOWNS) DO NOT want it released now. They want to use it against Barky in the fall. They fear that releasing it now will kill Obama’s political support and open the door for Hillary. The tape, I am told, appears to have been made in June 2004. It was not part of a pulpit service at Trinity. It was a conference. I am waiting for confirmation of the specific conference.

    And now we have Beckel and Fund claiming a tape exists and is coming out tomorrow. Would be nice but I don’t know. What I do know for a fact is that the folks who control the tape want to keep it on ice until after the Democratic convention in Denver. Whether they will achieve this is outside my knowledge.

  278. CNN has it at 2156 w/Hill at 1922.

    Anyone know how many outstanding SD’s?

    Wouldn’t it be something if they don’t move en masse?

    Cause that’d be good!


    Denver Denver Denver!

    John Quincy Adams “Voters would cherish the sweetest reflections that our vote is never lost

    Abigail Adams:

    “If we mean to have heroes, statesmen and philosophers, we should have learned women.”

    “Wisdom and penetration are the fruit of experience, not the lessons of retirement and leisure. Great necessities call out great virtues.”
    Abraham Lincoln said it best when he delivered his Gettysburg address:
    “This nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom; and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the Earth.”
    Of the people. By the people. For the people.

    I am so proud of you ! You are a TRUE AMERICAN WOMAN!!
    My daughter who has never been anything less than a straight A+ student
    And who is only 11 now knows thanks to you that she can be President!

    And one other thing I would like to say to you Hillary.
    True Americans are counting on you to not let the RBC and DNC to set a precedence with
    That sham of a meeting, they violated the constitution and their own party rules.
    If you do not stand up for us who will?

    And lastly, Its all over the blogs you have a huge support
    To run as a Independent, I certainly support that!
    I don’t feel that Our Democrat party has supported you at all
    And I feel that you owe them nothing but that you owe the American
    People to have YOU AS PRESIDENT even if that means running as
    A Independent!!

    Thank you for everything you have done!

  280. Hawk: many hugs. I am older, and she has changed my life. She inspires me, to be a better and stronger person. Sweet story about your sister. Good for her. 🙂 She has a good role model.

  281. I can imagine her talking to the party elders tomorrow that they can’t win without her and without her on the top of the ticket, because her support is stronger and deeper — especially with all of us going against the grain to support her — they can’t just peel us away from her and give to him. I don’t think she will negotiate for a VP position but will make a case for the top of the ticket or else they are on their own — VP thing will never work well for the reasons mentioned in previous posts. He can be her apprentice for 8 years and come back and win in 2016. The concession she will make will be to have him on the ticket as VP. That is how this game could have been played if the party elders had any common sense.

  282. hawk

    very touching !!

    going to denver!? i am organizing ride shares to denver and i do live in iowa, well
    i am moving to SD between sioux falls and sioux city ia so still plenty close to
    rides share 😀

  283. pm,

    I agree the VP thing any way you look at it, does not seem to work. I also think it was distorted by the media as usual. She was asked about it and she gave a stock reply.

    Absolutely. Can you imagine what would of happened if she said NO on the conference call ? She would have been blamed for his loss.


    And Hillary winning South Dakota just HAD to be humiliating for Bambi.

  284. pm: They don’t have any common sense. Their greed and selfishness have blinded them to the truth.

  285. If she decides to stop, she will not take the VP slot. She will instead pretend to be supporting Obama while her and Bill are on the beach enjoying themselves (Bill will never, never, never campaign for Obama. Nor will Obama ask him to. Another reason she will not take the VP sot). She will go to Denver to deliver a powerful speech to a national audience. She will continue pretending to be supporting him by making a joint few appearances (he will not ask he to do much, trust me). Then she will watch with the rest of us as he goes down in flames in November.

    She will rest for a while, and then start her next run for the White House. She has her base, her email lists, she has made history. She will be asked by every woman’s organization in the country to give a talk which she will use as a platform for her run. She will write, appear on the media circuit, and so forth.

    In 4 years, the country will be begging her to run. She will be more famous than Al Gore. In fact she will be the most famous person in America. She will be an American hero. She knows now how to campaign and how to run a campaign (no more learning curve). She will be soon enough sitting in the White House.

    Remember, that Ronald Reagan did something similar in 1976. He just had to wait 4 years.

  286. Yup, I am in the Quad Cities, I hope to go,but only if Hillary does. I think it will be an amazing event. We should get together.

  287. You don’t get it – we have to operate covert to persuade like (weak)minded folks they can vote against the Democratic nominee.

    I want to scream from the roof tops Barack Hussein Osama will lose the general. Don’t anyone f*cking rebuke me for saying Osama. That is one of the biggest regrets I have about this campaign – we let those MoFu dicatate how we acted. 1. BC is out of line – BC is sent on the dirt road tour of Texas. Yes it was effective, but those MoFu dicatated what happened.

    If you can’t tell I am pissed, I am on rum and coke #6 and ready for a bar room brawl.

  288. here’s a post I read over at It’s from someone who’s a very objective observer in general. I found it to be very interesting and hope ya’ll do as well:

    “I don’t think this is about who is more “electable.” This is about how deserves it based on their harder work . . . The Democratic party would rather lose the election than to betray AA’s.”

    At first I thought the above post was satire. I had to read it another couple of times before it sunk in that carl actually meant it.

    The thing is, I think he’s right, in that his views are representative of many in the party. It seems to me, looking at the totality of the election results and exit polling (where it might reasonably be thought trustworthy), that Obama’s star has been in decline since NC and Indiana. The fact that he could not win Indiana, I thought was hands down, was the lead story of that night.

    The results since then only confirm this. That this presumptive nominee could lose, SD and MT, the last two primaries, by ANY margin is stunning. If arg data turn out to be anywhere near correct, only the profoundly dumb would think it a good idea to endorse Obama.

    I don’t know if carl wrote in sorrow or in affirmation, but he has cut to the core of a psychosocial pathology that has plagued the Democratic Party for generations. A party that would act this way does not deserve to be taken seriously.

    Over the past few weeks, as the voters moved away from Obama, the super delegates moved to endorse him. That is, they acted in a manner precisely contrary to their express purpose (which is ensure the head rules over the heart, to prevent another McGovern debacle). This is painfully stupid

  289. paddy4hill: actually, let me amend that endorsement, as I have a caveat. I think Hillary will continue to push hard for the VP slot, knowing waffles won’t offer. This will further weaken him in the general, as it will have the effect of further pissing off Hillary supporters (and even the more lukewarm Hillary supporters) when he doesn’t offer it.

    There, now it’s fixed 😀

  290. paddy and levon…..I believe you’re both somewhat correct.

    I would like to add that i still believe 100% there is still the probability that she is creating the allusion of supporting BO, but is actually craftily just waiting for obama to drop the ball or the ball drops on him before convention.

    Let’s not forget Tmac announced her to the crowd as the next President….. that was for a reason!!!

  291. paddy4Hill Says:
    June 4th, 2008 at 12:14 am


    I agree that Obama will not ask her to appear too much on the trail — she will upstage him and remind people what they lost. There is no way Bill will do anything for him.

  292. I held out hope for Ole Rev Manning, but I’ve listened to him 3 times now explain how he had damaging info on BO and was going to release it at the opportune time but now can’t because why?!?!

  293. djia: I hope you’re right! I think this is a possibility as well. In fact, I think there are a few scenarios that could possibly play out.

    1) She could win the nomination if something fatally damaging comes out about waffles (given his past, this is a possibility). The way the DNC thinks however, it would have to be REALLY bad.
    2) She can try and limit his appeal in the general election, thus allowing her to try in 2012
    3) She could be offered the VP slot and accept
    4) She could accept other concessions from waffles, like a Supreme Court seat, Cabinet position, Senate leadership position on universal health care, etc.

    The point is, she has almost as much leverage as waffles does AT THIS POINT. She needs to make sure she plays her hand deftly and doesn’t give up any power she currently holds.

  294. Blue Democrat: What’s your opinion on the likelihood of the MO anglo slur tape/recording’s existence? I’ve been following the drama at, but I’m somewhat skeptical at this point. I am keeping my fingers crossed though 🙂

  295. Eceryone who sees me blogging here knows i love HILLARY —
    When hillary was talking -i was crying with love-passion-anger-

    When OBAMA was giving speech ,i liked his speech,i liked to see a african american reach that point ,i liked it he praised hillary and bill and his granny .

    BUT —even if i respect the man ,i still can not forget all the sexism and racism played out by obama camp and media and black voters .

    I still can not forget media trashing ,media sexism,media biased,obama flipping finger to hill,michelle,s mean comments,all black leaders ,s mean comments

    I mean i could go on and on -on-on–with at least 100 things that media,obamas,men,dnc did wrong to hillary .

    So i will not support any ticket with obama on it ,

    HIS praise and changed tone is too little and too late .and not needed .

    When OBAMA was giving speech ,i liked his speech,i liked to see a african american reach that point ,i liked it he praised hillary and bill and his granny

    This is exactly the emotion he is trying to invoke. It will become much harder for you as time goes by, I’m sure, to continue to hold out your support for Hillary or nobody. You’re only human, and the snake known as waffles knows this all to well. Try and stay strong. Hillary has been strong for each of us, and we need to pay her back in kind.

  297. Levon Says:

    June 4th, 2008 at 12:43 am

    U see ,i was honest about my emotions. If you read my whole comments ,i will never -ever support obama,he ran and won by a dirty campaign.

  298. all of obama,s pastors,supporters,black leaders have trashed hillary and try to erase bill clinton,s legacy .

    i believe they speak obama,s mind .

  299. SONIA4HILLARY: Yes, I read the part about you never supporting him. Please continue to stay strong 🙂

  300. dija: That is the truth. I haven’t watched any MSM, for about 3 weeks, and it has been great. I get my news here, a few different sites, including TM. My blood pressure is much better. The cable shows are sickening, which is why, I don’t watch them.

  301. djia Says:

    June 4th, 2008 at 12:47 am

    i was so depressed ,i ate 2 angus burgers and 2 cheesecakes .

    I had said before on noquarterusa about obama,s plan ,,

    he was gonna steal the michigan delegates ,add john,s delegates and get extra 50 superdelegates before june 3rd so he can claim victory .


  302. djia,

    That’s what I’ve had to do. Bambi is relegated to the mute button now, just like Chimpy has been for years. Just can’t stomach listening to them. The stupidity is painful.

  303. Agreed Sonia,

    I listened to Bob Beckel (who’s become insufferable pimping for BO) with Hannity today. He said he normally pays zero attention to such talk, because it’s so prevalent in general & in campaigns in particular.

    But he said whoever has this thing is moving it very smartly because they’d done it in such a way as to worry people Beckel described as being extremely influential so that people like him would notice.

    Hannity said he didn’t have it, btw, but do I doubt it’s existence.
    Not really since BO’s camp apparently (if indirectly) commented on it.

  304. she is not going to drop out of go for VP. what else could she say? She can’t look like the divisive one and flat out refuse. she would never take it and he would never offer it anyway.

  305. well

    i tell you ,i am learning from hillary .I am one of those people who if got mad would quickly start cursing and use bad words (i am sure u rememeber my words from 3 weeks ago).But not anymore ,now i think and speak .

    and i realized –instead of turning off tv,cursing,just figure out the plan of ur rival ,plan of media,and obamabots,so i can know what to do next before time.So i am not gonna stop supporting hillary

    but i mean hillary not obama/hillary .

    so i been watching tv for last 2-3 days and i knew exactly what they were gonna do .


  306. I don,t think there is any tape .

    and 10% chance that if there is tape ,they will release it a week before election day –to majorly influence the election ,

  307. Still I Rise
    by Maya Angelou

    You may write me down in history

    With your bitter, twisted lies,

    You may trod me in the very dirt

    But still, like dust, I’ll rise.

    Does my sassiness upset you?

    Why are you beset with gloom?

    ‘Cause I walk like I’ve got oil wells

    Pumping in my living room.

    Just like moons and like suns,

    With the certainty of tides,

    Just like hopes springing high,

    Still I’ll rise.

    Did you want to see me broken?

    Bowed head and lowered eyes?

    Shoulders falling down like teardrops,

    Weakened by my soulful cries?

    Does my haughtiness offend you?

    Don’t you take it awful hard

    ‘Cause I laugh like I’ve got gold mines

    Diggin’ in my own backyard.

    You may shoot me with your words,

    You may cut me with your eyes,

    You may kill me with your hatefulness,

    But still, like air, I’ll rise.

    Extracted From “And Still I Rise” by Maya Angelou.

  308. Blue Democrat: On the one hand, it’s seems plausible that MO could have said such a thing. On the other hand, I wonder what is in it for the Republicans to leak any info about the tape at this time? Anyway, that’s the one big problem I have with it. It really gives me tired-head just thinking about it, so I’ll just continue to follow along over at noquarter and spare my brain the torture 🙂

  309. I think she will just suspend her campaign to leave her options open. The DNC and Obama will be fine with this. They will feel this may avoid turning off so many of her supporters and give the transition a bit if time. They also know he will control the airwaves and Hillary will be silenced. They will ignore her like they did Huckabee after Super Tuesday. Since there will be a fair and open vote at the convention with Hillary officially still in, this will allow the Party to claim Obama was chosen by the voters and not the Party leadership. (Of course we know this is a lie. But that is another story.)

    She gains in that there will not be a formal vote until Denver and lots can happen between now and then. She will look like a team player. And she does not have to campaign for Obama. If she can keep hold of her Supers, it will be a close vote at the convention. She could still pull it off at the last minute.

    This is the compromise I think that will be agreed upon in her talks over the next few days. There is something for everyone. Including us.

  310. I think she needs the VP to stay in the spotlight, so if he falls before Denver.
    He could go to jail etc at any point.

    And for 2012:
    Remember, the VP gets a free jet to campaign in and a much higher reputation than just senator.

    She and Bill know what they are doing. She would be a constant reminder of how unqualified BO is.

  311. I can imagine her talking to the party elders tomorrow that they can’t win without her and without her on the top of the ticket, because her support is stronger and deeper — especially with all of us going against the grain to support her — they can’t just peel us away from her and give to him. I don’t think she will negotiate for a VP position but will make a case for the top of the ticket or else they are on their own — VP thing will never work well for the reasons mentioned in previous posts. He can be her apprentice for 8 years and come back and win in 2016. The concession she will make will be to have him on the ticket as VP. That is how this game could have been played if the party elders had any common sense.
    Absolutely right pm. That is how it should have been played if as you say the party elders had any sense. The mantra would have been not 4 but 16 years of democratic control of the White House. But is is too late for that now. They are not interested in winning. Or to be more precise winning took a back seat to installing a weak candidate they could control and not alienating their black supporters. Dean Pelosi and Brazile may be many things but smart is not one of them.

    Obama is not and never will be on the side of the American people, he is a figament of the medias imagination and he would be putty in the hands the global forces who want to control the wealth of our country. Given a choice between a candidate with high moral character but flawed policies and a much flawed candidate who mouths some of the right policies but will not deliver-well that choice for me is an easy one. Policies can change whereas character is an immutable trait. Translation? Nobama.

    I have prepared a dossier on Obamas campaign tactics for the mc cain campaign. I think it is important for them to fully understand the kind of low brow scorched earth racists they are dealing with. At one level they already know but they have not followed it on a daily basis the way we have. The future of our country is too important to turn over to this fatally flawed character.

    I am still thinking about what I want to say to Hillary, apart from conveying my great appreciation for her brilliance and courage. The future course she takes is so imporatant to the country and she may yet emerge as the one who can save us. As the late Bill Buckley and so many others of differing political persuasions have said: “Truly a remarkable woman”.

  312. paddy4Hill Says:
    June 4th, 2008 at 1:37 am

    I think she will just suspend her campaign to leave her options open. The DNC and Obama will be fine with this. They will feel this may avoid turning off so many of her supporters and give the transition a bit if time.

    I agree. She definitely needs to NOT CONCEDE. She needs to get to Denver, and let whatever crap hits the fan.

    She should state:

    “I’ve earned my spot at the convention. I’m willing to abide by whatever the party decides. Obama’s claim to ‘victory’ mixes in the superdelegates. If we look at solely on pledged delegates, his lead over me is too small is a mere125. His 1,762 pledged delegates is far short of the 2,118 needed to win. So his pledged delegate count lead of 125 is his selling point to the SDs. But my lead in the popular vote is one of my arguments to the SDs.

    Also, SDs may want to consider that his lead of 125 may wind up being even smaller, because the Credentials Committee will be presented with our challenge about how MI delegates were arbitrarily stripped, and how 55 uncommitted delegates were unfairly put into Obama’s column too early. The 55 uncommitted should have time to wait until the convention. That is the price you pay for taking your name off a ballot for whatever political calculation you make.

    SDs may also want to consider that his delegate lead would be cut even further if and when we decide to seat FL and MI at 100%. To deprive me, and the 18,000,000 voters who have supported me, of due process will only harm the Democratic party in November, and beyond. I urge the super delegates to take their time to make a sound decision, one they can be proud of now and later.”

  313. rgb44hrc Says:
    June 4th, 2008 at 10:31 am

    paddy4Hill Says:
    June 4th, 2008 at 1:37 am

    I think she will just suspend her campaign to leave her options open. The DNC and Obama will be fine with this. They will feel this may avoid turning off so many of her supporters and give the transition a bit if time.

    I agree. She definitely needs to NOT CONCEDE. She needs to get to Denver, and let whatever crap hits the fan.

    I meant to say, whatever crap hits the fan (about Obama) between now and August.

  314. If the shoe was on the other foot…

    If Hillary was ahead by such a narrow margin, and it was SDs that put her over the top, Obama would say, “I have every right to show up at the convention. I have almost as many voters as she, and they want me to represent them in Denver. This is not a slight to my opponent, nor showing disrespect to the party. I believe and hope my presence will strenghten our party”.

    Second, please come up with additional persuasive arguments for undecided SDs to pledge to Hillary, and for Obama’s SDs to consider their original endorsement.

    a. Automatically siding with him because he’s ahead on pledged delegates (not including SDs) only creates a false sense of party unity. Party Unity has to be earned, and the 18,000,000 of Hillary’s supports need to feel that the nominating process was fair. With the RBC capricious decisions, there is a long way to go before these supporters will feel that a fair game has been played.

    b. SDs should take into consideration how their district or state voted. I understand Maxine Waters’ district went with Obama, so her change to Obama’s column was understanable. They should show respect to their own constituents, even if they are retired.

    c. _____

    fill in the blanks. Then we hope Clinton’s people start or continue feeding these ideas to the media and SDs, to show she will behave just like Obama would behave if he was thisclose behind her, that she belongs in Denver, and not just a prop for party unity, but to ask for a formal vote count, and to conduct a floor fight if necessary.

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