Hillary Clinton Debates Barack Obama In Philadelphia

The Democratic Party presidential debate tonight. ABC television network, 8:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. (ET):

With the last primaries six weeks behind them and the Pennsylvania contest only six days ahead, Wednesday’s Democratic presidential debate in Philadelphia gives Sens. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., and Barack Obama, D-Ill., a last chance to settle old and new scores heading into a week that could make or break their presidential aspirations.

For the first time since February 26, Clinton and Obama will take the stage at Philadelphia’s National Constitution Center, in the debate co-hosted by ABCNews, WPVI and the Center, and moderated by ABC’s Charles Gibson and George Stephanopoulos.

The debate can be seen online HERE along with the reaction from a focus group:

Action News and 6abc.com will stream the debate between Senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama at the National Constitution Center, but only here and for the first time will you be able to see how undecided voters are reacting.

Action News, working with The Research Intelligence Group of Bala Cynwyd (TRIG), selected a group of undecided voters that will be monitored as they watch the debate between the two Democratic candidates.

Each panelist will hold a wireless dial set in the middle to about 50. As the audience members listen to the candidates’ answers, they’ll dial up toward 100 if they like what they hear or down toward 0, if they have a negative response.

“The whole time, once per second, the system will graph a line on top of a chart that they won’t see, but we’ll be able to tell if they thought it was a good answer or not because it will average all of their readings from all of their dials and plot that in real time second by second as they give those responses,” explained TRIG consultant Bruce Beal.

Each member of the focus group will also answer questions before and after the debate, including who they think won the debate and if the primary election were held today for whom would they vote.

The Debate: As Voters See It starts at 8:00 Wednesday night only on 6abc.com!

Join our discussion in the comments. Because the debate will be broadcast on a national network and online we will have a discussion in the comments section instead of providing a transcript.

Join our discussion.


821 thoughts on “Hillary Clinton Debates Barack Obama In Philadelphia

  1. getting my popcorn ready. lol. instead of drinking, I’m going to gargle down popcorn each time Obama stutters. I’ve got three bags ready 😀 in case he gets asked about some other than the comfiness of his chair and begins making his usual porky pig impressions 😀

  2. Every time Obama furrows his brow and makes that “fake-thoughtful” look, you have to take a shot, LOL… get ready to get drunk

  3. She said she and Obama exemplify that the promise of America is alive and well . . . (in her opening statement) but that there was still much to be accomplished . . . we can continue to fulfill that promise . . . look at our records, the plans that we have at hillaryclinton dot com, we the people can have the future that our children and their children deserve.

  4. Good, BO’s very much on the defensive, even in an unchallenged opening statement.

    Frustrated is his new word for bitter.

    Stupid scheduling calling for a break 1 minute in. WTF?

  5. mangomist3 Says:

    April 16th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
    cj, you will have to eat thousands of calories to keep up.
    lol i know..i have only a 16 oz bag should of bought more

  6. Berkeley Vox, i peeked just for you.

    She looks wonderful, very springlike in a robins-egg blue/green jacket, a dark, silkish shell underneath, pearls, her hair attractive, pushed back from her face, her make-up pastelish, light lipstick, a twinkle in her eye.

    You’ll have to ask the bravehearts here what she says.

  7. Fight it till the end, contest every delegate, don’t give an inch, but pledge now that whoever wins you’ll take the other as your running mate and the other would agree . . . first question. Why not?

  8. LawSchoolDem, Hillary reached back to Philadelphia’s history and struck a graceful note by noting women and African-Americans were not enfranchised fully at the nation’s founding.

  9. he thinks highly of her “record” .. not one friggin compliment for her can come out of his fcuking mouth. No I’d not vote for his sorry ass….ever.

  10. Good for Hillary, letting Obama answer first. Force him to come up with an original thought for a change. 🙂

  11. admin, yes she did . . . she’s always graceful!

    Hillary said, she’s going to do everything she can to make sure that either one of them takes the oath of office; once resolved, imperative that our entire party close ranks and that the people who supported her support the nominee. Says she is sure Obama feels the same way.

  12. sorry Hillary I would NOT support Obama. Barack DOES NOT feel that way about you. Didn’t you hear what he said .. your “record” not YOU

  13. You know, it’s easier now for Obama to go first because he has had so much practise for the last few months answering everybody’s questions.

    That being said, I hope that Hillary really does well tonight!

  14. Yes, and notice Obama never states he will do anything to support the Dem party no matter who the nominee is.

  15. Thanks Basil9 — sounds like she’s her usual attractive self!

    …hilarious to hear that Obama is trying to switch “frustrated” for “bitter.” What’s the new word for “cling,” Senator?

  16. Great move by Hillary to “be the bigger person” by promising to close ranks, no matter what happens. Obama’s silence makes him look childish and peevish, as usual.

  17. Clinton: Starts response by mentioning that she is a granddaughter of a factory worker from Scranton . . . does not believe that her grandfather and those she has met cling to religion when Washington is not listening to them. Confuses role of religion when times are good and bad. I just don’t believe that’s how people live their lives; that doesn’t mean people are not frustrated.

  18. Great strategy for Hill, staying on the positive. This is BO’s mess, I like that she’s taking the opportunity to cheerlead.

  19. She is clicking on all cylinders tonight — these debates prove who the TRULY articulate candidate is. Get Obama away from the rockstar teleprompters, and he’s deer-in-the-headlights.

  20. Hillary says we have to beat John McCain, will be a formidable candidate. I also know how important it is that we try to go after every vote to get to those electoral votes that we need. Can Obama win? Yes, yes, yes . . . but I think I can do a better job (laughter).

    [I can stop the transcript if it’s bothering anyone . . .]

  21. Same to Obama. Says absolutely she can win, but I too think I’m the better candidate. She’s said that I’m elitist, condescending . . . hard to say because I’ve done more than anyone else in reaching out to people of faith . . .

  22. Clinton has been beating to death . . . and I understand that’s politics, but important to remember that it’s not helping the person sitting at the kitchen table. Recalls 1992 when she said whether she should be at home baking cookies . . .

  23. lawschooldem,

    Keep the commentary coming! We wimps are counting on you!


    Why’d you say Nooooooooooo???????p

  24. We who cannot hear the debate thank you, LSDem.

    BTW, what has he done to reach out to people of faith? Anyone??

  25. Hillary responds: My comments were about your remarks, it wasn’t just me responding, but people who thought it was aimed at the decisions they have made. What we have to do as Ds is make sure we have enough votes to win in Nov. The Rs who are shrewd certainly did jump on the comments, but what’s important is our record and what we’ve done in our lives. I have a proven record of results and I’m taking a passion for empowering people to this campaign; important that that starts from a base of respect to get people to follow you.

  26. What a nasty creature Obama is. He bought up the “baking cookies” statement from 1992. People are not so stupid that they won’t see this is an attack on Hillary by Obama disguised as being sympathetic. Obama is a lowlife.

  27. Finally a real fucking question!!!!

    Why was the Rev revoked?!!!

    I cant believe it!

    stutter now you prick!

  28. Q to BHO: More than a year ago you rescinded Wright invitation to attend event at your kick off event, decided best not to be out in public? What did you know that caused you to rescind and if you kenw he was rough in sermons, why a year to dissociate?

  29. Made remarks but not of sort that offended so many Americans, why I said they were objectionable, don’t believe in. Also said the church and the body of his work were not represented in the snippets shown.

  30. The “Bitter” torpedo was launched right at the beginning and now the Wright torpedo. Will ABC mention Rezko?

  31. What I tried to do here (i.e., when he delivered the race speech), was to address it in a broader context and to move beyond it, which is what my candidacy represents.

  32. LOL, if Obama brought up the “baking cookies” non-issue from ’92, that shows how desperate he is. That “controversy” lasted about an hour, and it was all ginned up by the Republicans and totally backfired. All she was saying was that she wasn’t going to be a “kept wife” and she quickly clarified that no offense was meant to cookie bakers, and none was taken. Obama has reached a new low.

  33. lawschooldem,


    Why’d you say Nooooooooooo???????p

    When Hillary said he could win the presidency

  34. Asked a personal question, Charlie. For Pastor Wright to give first sermon after 9/11 would have been intolerable for me and therefore I would not have been able to have remained in the church, regarldess of good going on, you get to choose your pastor. When asked a direct pastror I said I would not have stayed in the church.

    Obama response: Many were objecitonable; already said I was not there. Charlie: You did rescind invitation. Obama: that was something else. What I should point out is that HRCs pastor spoke out about how he was being mischaracterized.

  35. Neettabug

    Why’d you say Nooooooooooo???????p

    When Hillary said he could win the presidency
    hill has something or she would not have said that

  36. bamabi-im not aware im not aare blah-time to drop the dmn video clip w/ bamabi at hate speech

  37. Absolutely nothing wrong with Hillary saying that Obama can win the presidency — he certainly can. The issue is whether he’s our strongest candidate, and he isn’t.

  38. Obama lied about Hillary’s pastor. And in the followup question again takes a shot at Hillary saying she will be attacked. This is not going well for him at all.

    C’mon Rezko.

  39. yep you all the BIG LIAR LIAR>>>>>people know now HE IS LIAR!!!!!!!!pants on fire and he is failing
    hes out of it…he was up either all night or something
    cocky looks

  40. Hillary: What he said, when he said it, there were so many variations on the explanations we heard that it deserves more exploration. We have to figure out how to bring people together that overcomes the anger and whatever bitterness is out there. As leaders we have a choice as to who we associate/give seal of approval to. It wasn’t just remakr, but also relationship to Farakhan and Hamas message in church bulletin that raises quesitons in peoples minds.

  41. Hillary goes for the kill. Calls out Obama on all his ever-changing explanations. Hillary: We need to overcome divisiveness. Hits Obama on choosing to associate with Wright. Ouch!.

    Go Hillary. God Bless America.

  42. rjk,

    i know you’re trying to make a (wo)man out of me but I’m hopeless. Too nervous to watch. Re-broadcast is ok but not the live event.

    So keep filling us cowards in on the action, please.

  43. I may be a lot of things, but I’m not dumb. I laid it out in 2004, you’re right in a couple of occasions I said some things . . . apologized for it and I hope it’s something you can get over. It was a war zone, points to Wes Clark in audience, soldiers were there to keep peace in battle zone, there was concern for danger. I know some people have said what happened here, but I have written about it and I wasn’t as accurate as I was in the past. But being able to rely on experiences that I have had in representing US gives me a tremendous advantagous esp against McCain. I’ll be sure to get sleep (to voter).

  44. basil9 – you’re hilarious. my mom has the same reaction when she’s watching a football team she likes – she just can’t watch.

  45. Ininla,

    Thanks but I know I’m pathetic. 😳

    Luckily the hillaryis44 heros and heroines are doing all the real-time watching for me.

  46. Obama just gave about his 100th different explanation about how he feels about Wright. God, what a disaster this guy would be in the general election. Every time McCain attacked him, he’d give a million different answers and keep controversies in the headlines for days on end. No thank you.

  47. you notice he still will not answer the question exactly about the flag.

    they are letting him control the debate however.

  48. Hillary: I think that’s a fair general statement, but Obama served on a board with Ayers which was a paid position and if I’m not mistaken the relationship continued after 9/11 and after his reported comments which were offensive to people in New York.

  49. I’ve been in this arena a long time and have a lot of baggage and everyone has rummaged through it for years (laughter) . . . withstand whatever Republicans send our way.

  50. We are getting nasty now, he throws bill’s pardons in her face. The gloves are off. hit him with the kitchen sink. Barry getting upset.

  51. Guys, ignore those stupid dials. They always skew those focus groups, every time. Means nothing

  52. confloyd –

    Kudos to you for overcoming your cowardice!!

    Everyone else – thanks for the eye witness accounts!’

  53. I found a live thread, I just hate that sob. he is a horrible person. I guess that Bosnia thing hurt, I can’t believe anybody would give a crap about it. I bet the same people lie about the size of fish they caught to. Their just looking for a reason not to like her, she human!! What in the hell do they want representing us anyway, a f’ing robot!

  54. The big problem tonight for Obama is this. Stuff has been mentioned tonight that many people never heard before, ooh lots of questions for him now.

    Ayres, Hamas, Wright, lol

  55. I love how confident Hillary is . . . she never seems to be off message or angry and when she is (i.e., last ABC debate in NH) she’s still on her game and hitting all the nails on the head. Onward and upward Hillary! We’re with you. We won’t back down either.

  56. hillary didnt respond bc the cat is out of the bag. she got out woods hich will be subj to scrutiny and ayres is nw out.

  57. the pardon by bill killed the ayers issue.

    they are definitely using this debate as an “excuse for all of my mistakes Obama” lovefest.

    If Hill has anything she better bring it next session.

    One thing I see now. Bambi is one angry man. He’d never get a vote of mine or my family. He is one of those people who “my way” or no way. He thinks he knows it all

  58. clintondem..i hope people understand what just happened…He just compared a US senator to a guy who bombed pentagon.

  59. obama is doing better than I expected he would. His months debating HIllary has made him much better than that stupid frog that i saw when he first debated. but, he still cannot out debate the debate Queen! Go hill!

    Hillary needs to answer that pardon thing!

  60. Exactly, confloyd. My God, throw her a bone. She planned that trip for a year, went when policy was still controversial in the US to let the troops know we were with them. WTH has he ever done?

  61. Er Obama, Bill may have pardoned or commutted 2 sentences, but he didnt go to his house take his money and schmooz with a bomber.

  62. she said she was sorry and she was embarrassed by the the Bosnia gaffe – and the meter went up –

    COMPARE – BO never apologizes for anything. he’s just a defensive ass.

  63. Never mind the user dials — all this Ayers stuff will be dissected ad nauseum in the coming days and people will begin to realize just how many unexamined skeletons are lurking in BHO’s closet… this debate is going beautifully!

  64. BRILLIANT answer by Hill on the Bosnia slip-up, and textbook Clinton: if you mess up, just admit it, apologize, and move on. Don’t do what Obama does and hem and haw and distract and hit back and make excuses, etc.

  65. As a non-spectator and based on what’s been said here tonight it sounds like at least ABC is airing some of the issues; Wright, Ayers, Hama . . . .

    none of the other debates did that. And Gibson saying HRC is getting shorted on time and will make it up as she chooses is good . . . .

    Sounds like this is going well for her. 😀

  66. Charlie to Hillary: Video Q: Do the candidate’s have a real plan to get us out of Iraq? Charlie adds that Howard Wolfson said that Hillary will bring brigades home even if military commanders said it would destablizie Iraq . .

    Yes, I am Charlie and here is why . . .

  67. Yes yes yes: she is talking to directly to SDs and making her case very effectively. She is a brilliant lawyer and this performance is top-notch.

  68. ask BO the same thing – Gibson should counter him that Samantha Power and that other advisor of his contradict his withdrawal plan

  69. Will make it clear that it will be done in responsible and careful manner and make it clear to Iraqies that there is no blank check from the US. Believe only through commitment to withdrawal that Iraqies will begin to do what they have failed to do until now. Get other countries to understand stakes with future to Iraq. I have been convinced and clear that I will withdraw troops in 60 days. History of when military leaders disagree with President . . .

    Charlie again: Are you saying you know better?

    No, saying no one can predict what will happen. Our staying in Iraq is no way for us to maintain a strong position in the world.

  70. Bottom line: don’t know what will happen if we w/d, but do know what will happen if we don’t . . . military stretched thin, soliders on fourth deployment, not able to reassert leadership in world.

  71. Hmm..many here feel he is doing very well and HRC not so much, the reaction at taylor marsh seems to be the opposite.

  72. c’mon charlie – bring up Samantha Power contradicting him on UK television, basically saying his Iraq posturing is “just words”

  73. lmao. Obama and his “pok-iss-ston”

    he’s more interested in pronouncing pakistan right than anything else. lol

  74. Obama: Bucks stops with me.

    Steph: Re: Iran. Weapons will pose greatest threat to Israel if they are given to Iraq. Should it be US policy as attack in Israel as attack on US?

  75. From our friend Ben Smith:

    This is the first debate, with Charlie Gibson in the role of Tim Russert, in which Obama is getting the real frontrunner treatment. The questions are almost all hardballs recent, uncomfortable subjects, most of them aimed at him. He’s the center of the debate, not a comfortable place to be, if a compliment of sorts.cl

    At one point, Clinton was offered more time, and declined.

  76. Exactly right Berkeley Vox.

    This is not about winning a debate – it is about winning the Pennsylvania and the nomination. This is a major mistake Democrats make with too much frequency.

    Repeat: the goal is winning the election, not just a debate.

    As you wrote, a lot of issues have been bought up tonight which shows to most voters how little they know about Obama. Most people don’t like confrontation so their first reactions might be displeasure when Hillary brings up unpleasant facts about Obama.

    But in the long term, people will ask for more information about Ayers, Wright, Bitterness, and maybe even Rezko and Auchi. That is the strategic goal of this debate – to define the terms of the nomination fight for Superdelegates and voters.

    Winning a debate is merely tactical.

    Fortunately Hillary is winning the debate as well as getting the strategic goals accomplished as well.

  77. would you extend our deterrent to israel? just say Yes or No, damnit. Why does he take 130 words when it should be one word.

  78. Repeats that she would not meet with Iranian President (sorry can’t spell it), says he repeated today that he doubts 9/11 happened, etc; would have diplomatic process that would engage him. Let Iranians know that attack on Israel would equate massive retaliation. We cannot permit them to be a nuclear weapons power; administration has failed to convince world of that and we have to have this process that reaches out beyond to get world on our side to impose sanctions.

  79. Steph: McCain says both of you are going to raise taxes. Video clip of McCain (. . . audacity to hope you don’t mind). Can you make absolute read my lips there will not be a tax increase for anyone earning (missed the exact number) . . . and to roll back Bush tax cuts?

    Clinton: Will roll back taxes to 1990 for people making (I think) more than 200K. Will not detrimentally effect economy, used in the 90s. Committed to not raising a single tax on people making less than 250K/middle class.

  80. I think Obama is doing terrible tonight. He is defensive, looks tired, and isn’t saying anything he hasn’t said before.

    The Republicans will certainly react to the comment where he compared a Repub. senator to Ayers. That comment alone will get the Ayers issue major talk radio time I would think.

  81. lninla Says:

    April 16th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
    she’s so crystal clear when she speaks – he is clear as mud.
    he blah blah i cannot understand himm..drift crap just im lost when he speaks crap drift..
    I understand hillary 100%..as Crystal Blue

  82. of course Frank Luntz group will interpret the meters completely different LOL

    Can’t he ever just answer a question with a precise answer.

  83. Charlie: Obama you favor increase in the capital gains tax. In each instance, when rate dropped, revenue increased, government took in more money. When increased, revenues went down? Why raise it?

  84. Gibson – nice, saying Bill Clinton cut capital gains and revenue still increased. why is Obama raising this particular tax then.

  85. Obama: I don’t want oppressive taxation, but want to make sure tax system is fair and able to finance health care and invest in . . . can’t do it for free and take out credit card in the name of China (deadpanned) . . .

  86. Gibson is misleading.

    Revenues increased from the cut in the Capital Gains only TEMPORARILY.

    Tax cuts do not bring in more revenue on an annual basis.

  87. BO…..blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

  88. Hillary: I think we know we have to get back to economy that works for everyone. Economy has been good for people who are doing well. Great. But better when economy lifts everyone up like in the 1990s.

  89. bambi gets more time cause he is so long winded.

    So glad Hillary is bringing up her husbands administration

  90. Hillary: I don’t want to take a penny from anyone but I want to make smart investments. Create . . . good UNION jobs . . . tackle the housing crisis, talked about for over a year . . .

  91. Hillary: Will not raise it higher than what it was under Clinton administration. Against Obama’s idea to lift cap on payroll tax . . . would impose additional tax to teachers, police officers, fire fighters and the like.

  92. Brings up FALSE AP report from IA that said she would consider it.

    Charlie: 97,000-250,000 is a lot of people . . .

    Obama: Might exempt those between . . .

  93. Social Security is more financially sound today than it has been throughout most of its 72-year history.

  94. Hillary: Totally committed to making sure SS is solvent. Had we stayed on Clinton path we’d be in better position. Fiscal repsonsibilty first and most important-reign in budget, pay as you go, replensih trust fund. Last time we had a SS crisis was in 1980, Regan and Oneil created commission (Obama mentioned it in last response).

  95. LOL love it……..he can’t get his dial up past half way

    show’s he’s not so “messiah” like with the people tonight

  96. for those of you not watching this debate……it’s time to turn it on…..this is one not to miss for sure

  97. i want to see one of these times when Obama accidentally sticks his MIDDLE finger up. lol. that would show the true him.

  98. djia Says:

    April 16th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
    LOL love it……..he can’t get his dial up past half way

    Best line of the night here. Do you have any idea how funny that is?

  99. i just wanna get on there on tv and slap him..and tlel him to go home..and quit pointing your damn finger..hope he screams..

  100. Oh, he is looking SO petty. He is PISSED off that his precious self is actually getting tough questions.

    He is so used to “may I fluff your pillow, Senator?” that he actually now thinks he deserves special treatment from the press. He does not know how to handle even the slightest bit of being pushed without getting snitty.

  101. gibsn opened ayres issue-i think it is now a free open issue to be discussed by hillary her surrogates etc.. i bet they will hammer the hell out of him on ayres in the weeks ahead. time to make ayres a household name. lets see an ad of folks’ feelign about obama having a firend who plotted agaisnt hsi country.

  102. this man would be worse than Bush ever thought about being. His ego is so big that there would be no compromise in anything. He cannot unite anyone .. it’s obvious by his demeaner that he is an angry man who has no goal but power. he does not give a shit about this country or our people.

    the refusal to even give one nice word about the FLAG .. did he even say the word? He is definitely not patriotic.

  103. On the economic issues Obama’s big mistake is saying that he would do dumb economic policies in the name of “fairness”. That is the viewpoint of an ideologue. Hillary wants fairness but in an economically profitable manner.

  104. His being nasty, throwing stupid shit at Hillary makes him look really bad in the eyes of the voters. Negative ads are one thing, but being negative in a debate turns voters off big time

  105. dijia,

    Bet his flag is always at half mast, too. 👿

    Switching between here and TM and having a grand time!!!!!!

    Love hearing everyone’s perspectives. 😀

    TM consensus is she’s knocking it outta the park.

  106. you know in the previous thread we were talking about quotes of brillo heads recently

    and i said…..hmmm perhaps its the DNC opening the door to kick his ass to the curb?

    well………I am still saying it

  107. Lou Dobbs would call BO out on every smoke and mirror distraction he uses.

    how can we get him to do a debate?

  108. Charlie: Today is the one year VT anniversary. Appropriate time to talk about guns . . . both have supported strong gun control measures, but now I hear you emphasizing an individuals right to bear arms . . .

  109. Hillary: I was with Mayor Nutter at the YMCA to talk about what we could do together to bring down the crime rate in Philadelphia . . . what I said then is what I have been saying . . . I will be a good partner because I will bring back the Cops Program and help create community relations and reinstate the assault weapons ban. Our cops are being outgunned on the streets. Work to ensure police departments across PA/America get access to federal information to track illegal guns.

  110. I believe we can balance what I think is the right equation. Respect 2nd amendment to lawfully own guns but also believe most lawful gun owners want to be sure that we keep those guns out of the wrong hands . . . as president will work to bridge that divide.

  111. Obama: Charlie I confess I haven’t looked at all the briefs . . . as a general principle believe right to bear arms but does not mean that state or local government can’t constrain exercise of that right.

  112. Obama: Important to reconcile gun ownership passed on from generation to generation . . . that is something that is deeply important but also reality of what is happening in Philadelphia.

    Charlie: Still favor registering guns? Questionaire that you supported opposite.

    Obama: Handwritting was not on that quesionaaire . . .

  113. yeah, Gibson – 1996, your writing was on the questionnaire, to ban handguns

    BO – no, Charlie, it wasn’t that questionnaire (bet it was!, Republicans are probably looking at that same questionnaire now)

  114. Now saying his handwriting wasn’t on the 1996 questionaire where he advocated a gun ban! This will come back to haunt him when it’s made public for all to see

  115. Steph: Home in DC, do you support DC ban?

    Hillary: Case is dividing the Bush administration. Cheneye as fourth special branch of government (to laughter). Do you support or not? I support sensisble regualtion . . . is the DC ban consistent? Total ban with no exceptions might be found not to be but I don’t think that should blow open hole that DC/Philly cannot come up with sensible regulation to keep machine guns out of the hands . . .

    Charlie: Never got answer out of Obama . . . do you?

    Clinton: What I favor is what we do in NY. But might not work everywhere.

    Steph: You were for them when you ran in NY.

  116. Joe Friday

    re SocSec…I agree.

    I had to wait 8 months after 65 to start getting my benefits…I even waited 1 more year because benefits increase 8% a year if you don’t take it right away. Anyway, it didn’t kill me, and I knew about it starting in 1984, after the commission’s recommendations were initiated.

    BO is so unschooled in economics, it is embarrassing.

  117. Steph same Q to Clinton: I prefer to think we need AA generally to give people advantages to people everywhere . . . univeral pre-k, against no child left behind . . . in favor of more college aid, not predatory student loan lenders. I think we have to look at what trying to achieve differently. We have real gap in achievement and income but not in potential–job should to create conditions to enable people to live up to god given potential.

  118. Charlie: Gas prices, killing truckers. Yet whole world pays more.

    Clinton: Investigate gas prices, believes there is market manipulation, seen before like in Enron. Quit putting oil into reserves and release some to drive down cost globally. Gas moratorium as some have proposed, is to say then we should have windfall profits tax and put it into highway trust fund so that we don’t lose out on repair/rebuiding.

  119. love it “we’ve seen this movie before in Enron” – she definitively believes there’s manipulation in the gas industry.

    Why isn’t this woman president already??…she’s sooo great; brilliant.

  120. Charlie: Obama, same thing. We’ve heard same things from other politicians (read quote of Carter):

    Obama: Right, why people are cynical. Steps Sen. Clinton outlined are like the ones we’ve outlined . . .

  121. and smack the shit out of him for again trying to lump the Clinton years with the Bush ones.

    he’s DONE ENOUGH OF THAT!!!!!

  122. # HillaryforTexas Says:
    April 16th, 2008 at 9:37 pm

    I am stealing this: Leggo my Eggo, Bambi!

    😀 be my guest!

  123. Steph: 30 seconds:

    How would you use GW Bush as former president?

    Clinton: I have to give serious thought to thaat . . . laughter/even from BHO . . .thought right for him to use Bush/Clinton after tsunami and sure there will be opportunities to work on behalf of our nation. We have to come together — former presidents represent that even if you disagree. But that will take some careful thought on my part (again to laughter).

    Obama: more likely to ask advice of GH not GW b/c his foreign policy was a wise foreign policy.

  124. if this doesn’t send every single SD to hillary i don’t know what will

    I think the DNC is about to kick his sorry limp line ass to the curb after PA

  125. anyone who is interested in this country will vote for Hillary. He has major goofballed this whole thing.

  126. i started watching this late – watching online –

    did she not mention FL and MI and disenfranchisement at all?

  127. dija, keep in mind he has clinton-haters who are influential in the DNC supporting his weak ass, such as Kerry, Kennedy, Pelosi, and Brazile. We will have to shame barack out with our people power!

  128. Ben Smith:

    Handwriting on the questionaire

    I’m not sure what Obama meant about his answer just now about a 1996
    questionnaire, covered at length and linked here.

    “My writing wasn’t on that particular questionnaire – Charlie, as I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns.”

    The questionnaire, whose answers supported strict gun control, including a handgun ban, has Obama’s handwriting on the first page; the gun answer isn’t itself handwritten.

    A response to an earlier questionnaire from the same group has the same answer.

  129. i bet clinton camp is looking for that questionaire, readying for taling points on ayres etc. gibson really has done well. if we didnt have so many cable tv debates with gotcha crap…

  130. He just looks so uncomfortable through this entire debate, HRC opened up some serious wounds Obama would rather people did not know about.

    The fact she mentioned certain stuff about Obama tonight in respect of Ayers, Woods board, hamas bulletin, makes me think she’s about to drop the dossier of shit out into the media loop.

  131. well, remember one of the last debates where she had such a compelling and moving closing statement? hoping for one again.

  132. with mccain..she’ll say and my friends do we need some more george bush for 4 years lol..she is the best debater politician ever her and bill..bambi thinks he can compete no way ..

  133. Would it just kill him to compliment BC just once, that’s why i just can’t stand Bambi!! BC was the best dem pres. we had in years. Those leftist just don’t want to admit it!!!

  134. Charlie: Final question to finish fascinating debate, thanking you in advance. Hard to see how anyone of you can win on pledged delegated; know talking to superdelegates. Talking to 20 undecided supers in Denver. How do you make case? 1.5 min each. Hillary first.

  135. Clinton: Need a fighter in the White House. Make everyone feel they are part of the American family again. Obviously, I can’t do it alone, need people who believe in me, support me, look at my track record see that I empower people . . . challenging but know what we must do to give children what we deserve. Will tell everyone who listens that I ready to be CIC, ready to take on al queda, turn economy around to shared prosperity . . . and I need your help, help of voters of PA . . . hope that i’ve demonstrated, not just over weeks or hour and half, that you can count on me. You know where i stand and together we’ll take back our country.

  136. Obama: Bet I was making was on the American people . . . change does not happen from top down but from bottom up, why we decided not to take PAC money . . .

  137. one word out of this debate most critical and damaging for oabam-ayres. piss in your pants dean

  138. a new coalition of WHAT? Latte sippers + African Americans + Rich Hard-liberals = His coalition? Isn’t this the same thing Dean put together in 2004?

  139. LawSchoolDem

    The bet comment made me think of what Michelle said months ago during an interview. She said she told obama that his time was now or never. We all know what she meant by that now. In 4 years everyone will know the real Obama and they were betting that he could win the WH before his true colors were revealed to the voters.

  140. MJS Says:

    April 16th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
    a new coalition of WHAT? Latte sippers + African Americans + Rich Hard-liberals = His coalition? Isn’t this the same thing Dean put together in 2004?

    Most of that coalition doesn’t agree on much.

  141. lol, i just that woman commenting, she said Obama had no highlights, he was dead, i dont think it was meant to be heard.

  142. # admin Says:
    April 16th, 2008 at 9:53 pm

    BTW, Ed Rendell is supposed to be on Colbert Report tonight.

    cool! thanks Admin

  143. GOOD – glad Chuck Todd of NBC is saying BO tanked.

    hey there’s our (sometimes) friend Jake Tapper! – he looks like that guy from 2 and half Men.

  144. Be sure to check back for Nightline. They are supposed to report on the “spin” of the debate.

  145. Jake Tapper – clinton ‘relentless, if not politely so,’ in sending a message that there’s much we don’t know about Obama.

  146. ABC commentators said Obama didn;t have much prep time, and that he wasn;t strong. Saying Hillary got more points.

  147. the door is finally opened not just on ayres but the others i think. fair game. abc opened it and u bet hillary will take it to the whitehouse

  148. Politico catches Obama on 2 clearcut, indisputable lies:


    I’m not sure what Obama meant about his answer just now about a 1996
    questionnaire, covered at length and linked here.

    “My writing wasn’t on that particular questionnaire – Charlie, as I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns.”

    The questionnaire, whose answers supported strict gun control, including a handgun ban, has Obama’s handwriting on the first page; the gun answer isn’t itself handwritten.

    A response to an earlier questionnaire from the same group has the same answer.
    And this one

    Obama said earlier his campaign had only mentioned Clinton’s Tuzla story because it was asked.

    Avi turns up this campaign memo that suggests otherwise.

    AND: The Clinton campaign turns up some more.

  149. someone on TM noted on live stream:

    they are talking about Obama on teh stream. they said he HAD NO HIGHLIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!! they didn’t know they were on camera

    sarainitaly | Homepage | 04.16.2008 – 9:55 pm | #

  150. “didn’t have much prep time”

    ^ pfft. IT’s not like HE was the only one running for president. Hillary was just as busy as him and still found time.

  151. who is ABC kidding “Obama didn’t have much prep time”
    It has been over a month since the last debate, how much prep time will he need in a crisis?

  152. Halperin has always been tougher on Clinton in his “report cards.” He’s also been wrong on those grades more times than rights (if you keep count with what the mainstream media is saying). He’ll qualify them tonight or tomorrow with some spin based on what he hears in the spin room and realizes that Clinton dominated. Or at least that has happened before.

  153. Right. It’s like they had to explain why he hadn’t done so well. They were dying for him to crush Hillary. It’s very revealing, I think, that the ‘peoplemeter’ gave her a clear win. It did, didn’t it?

  154. I have no doubt that Hillary will win PA by a mile now, tonight will put an awful lot of doubt in peoples minds about Obama.

  155. Just walked in the door ….. on the road so not able to watch. Have been reading thread on my blackberry…..sounds like it went really, really well for HRC??

  156. seriously, I know ABC brought up Bosnia, but at least they dish the dirt on both candidates instead of fawing over own (bambi) and asking the other (hillary) when she would like to fly away on her broomstick or sumthn!

  157. Love Rendell, on Phila TV saying Hillary won hands down, the first 45 minutes were all gotcha issues and unfortunately for Senator obama they were mostly all his issues.

  158. ed rendell being interviewed now

    he is disapointed that 45 mins of the debate was on “gotchya” issues, mentioned that other than bosnia all the rest were on obama

    go ed!!

  159. If Bambi failed because he didn’t have much prep time, what’s he gonna do when the phone rings at 3 AM ?

    I couldn’t help myself.

  160. That man with the Bosnia question, I don’t think she ever had his vote! That was how they wanted to introduce the bosnia gaffe. He was probably a pug. I think her meters were higher overall, but they went way down on bosnia!

  161. Who had the most time? Someone on another board, said Hillary talked too much.

    Why are the obamabots “biotching?”

  162. Taylor Marsh put these as contacts for ABC – but BEWARE the phone number gets a general reception guy and he tried to transfer me to the right dept, butd didn’t work:

    Call ABC. Compliment them on their debate: 212-456-7777

    Send emails, too:


  163. mjs…….LOL Iowa…….drudge is slipping

    but it shows a win for bo……..start passing that poll around the forums

  164. I tried to send the link but could not get it up. Here is a blow-by-blow report from the ABC blog with Rick Klein:

    Overall — with the preface that all of this may not matter, since Obama was and is the delegate leader, this was not a good night for the frontrunner. He hasn’t been all that strong in any of the debates, and we saw some of his less attractive qualities tonight — odd comparisons (Ayers and Tom Coburn?), some slippery answers, and a general prediliction to avoid confronting his own words and actions directly.

    Clinton had one of her better nights — set a generally positive tone, despite the need for her to score some points. She managed to avoid overt attacks but still found ways to differentiate herself — and make herself look presidential.

    Bottom line: I don’t think Sen. Obama got this much scrutiny in any other two-hour period during this campaign, but then again he shouldn’t have been surprised by any of the lines of inquiry. I’m not sure he held up that well — not that he fell apart, but he didn’t do himself all too many favors. There are a number of answers I think he’d like to have back. But for his supporters — the soaring above his opponent is almost certainly attractive.

    That’s it for tonight — check back in tomorrow morning in The Note for a full wrap and analysis.

    9:34 pm ET: The handwriting wasn’t his? From a Politico story unearthed by ABC’s Teddy Davis: “Through an aide, Obama, who won the group’s endorsement as well as the statehouse seat, did not dispute that the handwriting was his.”

    9:28 pm ET: How does Sen. Obama not have a position on the DC gun ban? It’s not like this is a new issue –and, as he likes to say, he taught constitutional law.

    9:26 pm ET: A much different Clinton we’re hearing tonight on guns, in Philadelphia, with Virginia Tech as backdrop.

    9:22 pm ET: So far, it’s hard to score for Obama. He’s gotten tougher questions, but sometimes hasn’t seemed like he saw them coming. And Clinton is back to the strong presence we saw early in the cycle, when she was the frontrunner.

    9:19 pm ET: A Republican strategist offers this, to ABC’s Karen Travers: “I think we’re going to buy 90 minute infomercials in October to replay this . . . I can’t believe Obama’s answer on Ayers. It’s like he never even considered the question. Doesn’t he do debate prep?! His answer was so bad/wrong/misleading/offensive – it’s going to be a huge problem for him . . .”

    9:15 pm ET: Obama is trying to skate around his plans on the Social Security payroll tax. Gibson is right, lots of people make between $97,000 and $250,000, and their taxes would go up. Nobody wants to favor a tax hike, but Obama may be ceding the high ground of intellectual honesty by not calling this was it is.

    9:09 pm ET: Obama, on capital gains — strikes me as a strong answer, lots of juicy morsels of economic populism.

    And when Clinton gets the question, she didn’t answer directly. That comes through.

    9:04 pm ET: On taxes, Clinton is clear about letting the tax cuts for wealthy earners expire. And “I am absolutely committed to not raising taxes on middle-class Americans.” (Which she defines as people making under $250,000? That’s a thick middle…)

    Oh — and go to that Website (and maybe make a donation while you’re there).

    9 pm ET: Israel is a potentially dicey issue for Obama — he just spent this morning explaining himself to Jewish leaders in Philadelphia. Seems like he gave the “right” answer for that constituency.

    8:56 pm ET: On troop withdrawal — Clinton’s answer leaves a teensy bit of daylight, no? She’s still going to consult with military commanders, right? Not that that’s irresponsible, but it isn’t entirely consistent with the idea of definitely sticking to a withdrawal plan.

    8:48 pm ET: Strikes me as an Obama performance that his backers will adore — but not one that’s going to do him much good in terms of quelling concerns about his candidacy. Again, thinking of the undecided superdelegates — if they’re watching tonight, I don’t see them tipping based on this performance, not so far.

    8:45 pm ET: Obama swings back on the “weather underground” connections — brings up pardons. (!) That was his first flash of offense tonight.

    8:43 pm ET: Clinton has the facts on the Ayers relationship. Taken as a whole, not a great first 43 minutes of the evening. “What they did was set bombs,” Clinton said.

    8:38 pm ET: Obama on the flag question: “I revere the American flag, and I would not be running for president if I did not revere this country.” And he “shows” patriotism through actions, not symbols. That’s a solid answer — not that the questions will stop.

    8:34 pm ET: A sharp colleague notes that Sen. Obama has not used the word “hope” yet tonight — think that’s right, will check the transcript to be sure [actually — he did in his open, but not since]. Is Sen. Clinton the candidate of “hope” this evening?

    8:33 pm ET: Maybe it doesn’t help her, but Sen. Clinton is falling on her sword over her big recent mistake, on Bosnia.

    8:30 pm ET: Obama is not really directly engaging on the questions of his own behavior and language. A little curious. There’s a lot of talk about uniting and rising above, but does that assuage concerns? (And he came perilously close to saying he “disowned” Rev. Wright.

    8:27 pm ET: Per ABC’s Teddy Davis, these are the comments in Rolling Stone that Obama WAS aware of — the ones he described as “entirely different”: “We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God. . . . We conducted radiation experiments on our own people. . . . We care nothing about human life if the ends justify the means!”

    8:26 pm ET: Strikes me as a ho-hum answer on Rev. Wright — something’s still missing. Obviously he was concerned enough about Wright to disinvite him from his announcement ceremony, yet it wasn’t until it went to YouTube that he grew really concerned? He tries to rise above this one, too, but again, the comments linger.

    I’m just a bit surprised he didn’t have a sharper answer on this, and the “bitter” remark. “When we are unified, there is nothing we cannot tackle,” Obama said in closing. What, exactly, does that have to do with his relationship with Rev. Wright?

    8:21 pm ET: I’ve already lost track of how many times Sen. Clinton has made this about the Democratic Party as a whole. This is shades of early-debate Clintons, when she rose above the field. Myrtle Beach Clinton hasn’t shown up yet.

    8:19 pm ET: This has become the Obama M.O. — when attacked, push back by ascribing it to the old kind of politics. Works with his base, but beyond that? The comments in question linger. He didn’t have much to say that’s new tonight on the “bitter” comment, for better or worse.

    8:16 pm ET: Clinton is asked — can Obama beat John McCain: “I think we have to beat John McCain.” Hmmmm — what was missing there? BUT, when pressed: “Yes, yes, yes. I think that I can do do a better job.”

    This is not the bazooka approach. Too much risk of backfire?

    8:15 pm ET: Clinton reminds us of her PA roots — and focuses on the “cling” part of the remark, of course. “I just don’t believe that’s how people live their lives.” “I can see why people would be taken aback and offended by the remarks.” And — perhaps oddly — this debate has Sen. Clinton offering a touch more of hope.

    8:12 pm ET: Obama on “bitter”: “There’s no doubt that I can see why people are offended.” He’s clearly had time to prepare his answers on this (indeed, he’s had answers on this every day since Friday). Yet he’s still not fully addressing his sentiments — focusing on what he can explain away, versus what he can’t (namely, the “clinging” to guns, religion, anti-immigrant sentiments). If the comment is remembered just as about “bitterness,” Obama can survive this and thrive through it — people ARE bitter.

    8:10 pm ET: Sen. Clinton aims for healing — will do whatever she can to see the Democrat elected, “anywhere in the country.” (She doesn’t want to answer, either.) Wonder if this is Clinton working on her negative numbers — her first answer, on the dream ticket, is about party healing, and a strong promise to campaign for Obama if he’s the nominee.

    8:08 pm ET: Ahhh, the dream ticket question: Looong pause there. Sen. Obama jumps in: “Premature,” he says. (Yes, but that’s the point of the Cuomo proposal.) Sorry, but he doesn’t want to answer the simple, “why not?” (That’s a complicated answer, now isn’t it, Sen. Obama?)

    8:05 pm ET: Clinton uses her opening statement to talk about “records” and “plans” — plus a shout-out for her Website (still working on that donors list).

    8:03 pm ET: In his opening statement, Obama immediately turns to the “frustration” of Pennsylvanians — he’s trying to own the sentiment of his “bitter” comment before it owns him.

    For those asking, the debate will be streaming live on the Website of our ABC affiliate in Philadelphia, WPVI.

    7:55 pm ET: Funny moment during the awkward silence after the mic checks but before the debate started. Playing off the “We the people” banners that are ubiquitous inside the Constitution Center, Charlie Gibson said, “In here, it’s we the contributors.” Said Obama: “Just like Washington.” (Some groans.)

    7:51 pm ET: The senators are coming onto the stage now. It will be Clinton stage right, Obama stage left. The podiums are pretty close to each other — should make the tussles fun.

    7:06 pm ET: If you’re Sen. Clinton, how do you frame your attacks (assuming you attack tonight)? Her problem is with credibility — so she has to come with hard and fast facts, not just talk, in making her case.

    And keep in mind tonight — no matter what happens in Pennsylvania, it will be the superdelegates who are likely to settle this race. So they will be the other audience — a more politically savvy crew, though also a difficult group to reach.

    6:35 pm ET: Another name for the celebrity-watch: M. Night Shyamalan. (Does he see dead candidates?)

    6:23 pm ET: For those asking, the debate will be streaming live on the Website of our ABC affiliate in Philadelphia, WPVI.

    Greetings from Philadelphia’s Constitution Center. Rick Klein from ABC’s The Note here — I’m live blogging during tonight’s debate, which airs on ABC starting at 8 pm ET.

    For you star-watchers, tonight’s (cozy) crowd of 573 will include: Ted Danson, Richard Dreyfuss, and Harvey Weinstein, in addition to famous-for-politics folks including Chelsea Clinton, Wes Clark, Gov. Jon Corzine, Gov. Ed Rendell, and Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter. Bill Clinton will not be in attendance. Stephen Colbert wants in — and the Constitution Center has scared up a ticket for him. (True story.)

    Now for business: I wrote in this morning’s Note that Barack Obama may have more pressure on him than Hillary Clinton. What I mean by that is, he’s the one who has had big new questions about his candidacy emerge in recent weeks. He’s the one who’s going to be in the spotlight (and Hillary Clinton will make sure that’s the case). He’s got to show he can close the deal.

    That doesn’t make his job harder than Hillary Clinton’s. On the contrary, she’s fighting on a slippery slope — her negative ratings are rising, which makes it harder for her to attack with credibility. Will she be aggressive (like she was in Myrtle Beach, S.C.), throwing the proverbial “kitchen sink”? Or will she try to look presidential, and let Obama speak (and squirm) for himself?

    A quick comment on the setting — this is an intimate room. The crowd size actually doesn’t explain fully how small the room is — we’re talking seven rows of seats in a theater-in-the-round setting. Mostly guests of the candidates and the Constitution Center. So don’t expect whoops and hollers — this should be more of a discussion than a shout-fest, if the room has anything to do with it.

  165. The Obamabots heads are exploding. Keith O is alternatley crying, in a spittle-fueld rage, and crying.

  166. As if there were any doubt whom the victor was tonight, the Obamabots at DKOS are going after ABC & Disney for what they see as an unfair fight.

    “Tomorrow We Take On ABC, and Disney
    by Dartagnan
    Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 06:23:45 PM PDT

    Well folks, you’ve witnessed it. I can’t describe it any better than what you’ve already seen. I’m not sure what their motivation is. I really don’t care. I’ve never seen anything quite like it in my life and I hope I never have to see it again.

    My opinions on this are largely irrelevant. What matters to this network is money, and that is where we need to go. Starting tomorrow, my spare time, meager as it is, will be dedicated to revealing the advertisers of this network, for the purpose of organized boycotts.

    * Dartagnan’s diary :: ::

    When a corporate behemoth like Disney decides it can control its News Division to filter, select and distort what the American population will or will not see in order to make decisions about its leaders, whatever murky motivations may underly that decision, there is a fundamental imbalance that needs to be addressed if this country is to remain a Democracy. What we saw tonight was neither Democratic nor Republican–it was corporate and it was disgusting–disgusting beyond my capacity to imagine just a few short years ago.

    So let our response begin here, tonight.

  167. All these on-air douches are skillfully trying to avoid saying Hill was OUTSTANDING tonight.

    And is Bob casey on heroin, or what?

    he’s always like, “hey man, with this droppy, stupid look on his face.

    can’t wait till this is over!

  168. Penn University, i think.

    its the detail, at the beginning the entire front row was for Obama, at the end they all chose Clinton.

    Thats huge. Get Chelsea and Hillary down there tomorrow.

  169. Well, tell the Obama-bots we have ALREADY done the same (as they are planning to do with disney) to GE…so they’re late in the game.

  170. i’m glad Obama got SMASHED in this debate. I hope this debate changes the game 10-15% in the final poll that counts: the ACTUAL primary!

  171. Obama may have just made PA worse than it could have been. He seriously fucked it up bigtime on a grand scale. That was a real votechanger debate.

  172. BO supporters on politico revving up to blast abc for hitting their hero. Let’s do same thanking them for a fair and balanced debate. Here’s the contact info being spread around politico.

    Peter Salinger (THE MAN IN CHARGE OF ELECTION COVERAGE) Director, Special Events & Sports 212.456.5105 peter.salinger@abc.com

  173. I just emailed Peter Salinger. I said I wished to congratulate him on the debate. It was fair. Questions were hard-hitting to both.

  174. They don’t like it when its not Hillary’s butt on the line. It’s way past time to put Bambi’s but on the line and see if he can take, apparently he can’t!!! LOL!!

  175. moononpluto Says:

    April 16th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
    ABC says 45% of the focus group changed their votes tonight.

    I refuse to believe anyone switched to Bambi tonight. If part of that 45% is for Bambi, it’s a fricken lie.

  176. This debate is the FIRST legitimate debate we have had.

    Hillary stands strong. She is going to be our next president.

  177. Ronald – I think the New Hampshire debate with Charlie Gibson was another good debate. That’s what Clinton said – it was the first real debate of the season.

  178. Hillary dominates Philadelphia focus group. “NYDIA HAN: The real take away is this. We now know who won the debate according to our focus group. Take a look. Senator Clinton is the debate winner, at least according to our focus group. 23% believe Senator Obama won while 50% believed Senator Clinton won.” [WPVI Post-Debate Analysis, 4/16/08]

    ABC News’ Rick Klein – ‘Clinton is back to the strong presence we saw early in the cycle.’ [ABC News Political Radar, 4/16/08]

    NBC News’ Chuck Todd – Obama ‘did not have a good night.’ [MSNBC Post-Debate Analysis, 4/16/08]

    NBC News’ Chuck Todd—Obama’s answer on Ayers and the flag ‘were simply weak.’ “His answer on Ayers and the flag question were simply weak; He seemed unprepared for them; Kinda surprising because he normally has a decent rant against “old politics” and yet “old politics” questions seemed to stump him.” [NBC First Read, 4/16/08]

    The Atlantic’s Marc Ambinder – [T]here’s no way Obama could fared worse. [The Atlantic’s Marc Ambinder, 4/16/08]

    Washington Post’ Chris Cillizza— Obama ‘struggled quite a bit’ when asked about Rev. Wright. “…He struggled quite a bit more when asked to answer for Wright, his former pastor.” [Washington Post, The Fix, 4/16/08]

    New York Times’ Katharine Seeyle: Hillary’s ‘in her element as she goes into details.’ “She’s becoming expansive, seemingly in her element as she goes into details; Mr. Obama does not look as thrilled to be still standing there.” [New York Times, The Caucus, 4/16/08]

    Talking Points Memo’s Josh Marshall – Hillary ‘certainly seems more self-assured.’ “She certainly seems more self-assured on the Iran question than Obama did. The question of extending an American security umbrella to Israel is very dicey. And he could clearly see he was on delicate territory.” [Talking Points Memo, 4/16/08]

    Philadelphia Inquirer blog – ‘Obama is again less certain, and rambles a bit.’ “Obama is again less certain, and rambles a bit when asked about the Washington D.C. gun ban. Gibson asks him to deny that he has ever advocated a complete ban on hand guns in 1996. Obama says no. But whatever the truth, no other answer is possible.” [Philadelphia Inquirer Blog, 4/16/08]

    NBC News’ Matthew Berger – Obama ‘tried to have it both ways’ with Israel. “Obama’s answer on an Iranian attack on Israel tried to seem to have it both ways: highlight his support for Israel but not lock him into treating an attack on Israel like an attack on the U.S. But it may have looked more like a no because it wasn’t a firm yes. Clinton’s answer seemed more direct.” [NBC First Read, 4/16/08]

  179. LOL. I’m watching as Bambi-bots are killing themselves on cyberspace and trying SO hard to reassure each other not to cry into their beers 😀

    This is SOOO much fun! **goes back to reading the “bitter” posts at Bwakie’s site**

  180. The Obamatrons are selfdestructing tonight.

    A lot of them think this was the weakest they’ve seen Obama and that he was set up and they ambushed him and they were not fair.

  181. they need that koolaid detox them supporters are riled up..just admit he lost so there..they are crazy and weird

  182. Thanks everybody for your comments. I get the strong sense from you that our girl had a great night and Barack tanked. One thing you are seeing here is the contrast in how the two of them handle pressure. She thrives on it and Barack is more inclined to wilt. Which of those two characteristics would you rather have in the White House. Hillary’s combination of high intellect, self control and moral courage is true and adorable.

    The other impression I get from the west coast and listening to your great commrents is that Gibson is a first rate political anayst. He and a handful of other have kept the faith (Crawford, Dobbs, Buchanan, Lou, Scarbourogh). They are fair and that is all we ask.

    But consider for a moment how many of the other kind there are. Here are a few names I would consign to the bone heap without a bindfold and cigarette just for starters: Russert, Todd, Robinson, Maddog, Mitchell, Crowley, Borger, Cafferty, Modo dodo. Rich, Fineman, Tweetie, Olberman, Kornblott, CameronB, Morris, Gregory, Schuster, Cohen, Simon, Hi Ben, Tapper, et al.

  183. wolfson talking about ayers, said obama should have to answer the questions about him, and it will certainly come up in this campaign


  184. That was the best, most professionally conducted debate by leaps and bounds this season.



  185. After watching this debate- and its still running here in Denver on Mtn time- I am convinced Hillary Clinton is on this blog. I just have to figure out her screen name! 😛

  186. In New Hampshire three-quarters of the voters saw the “you’re likeable enough, Hillary” debate. She won.

    This debate was broadcast by a national network. It is likely that many Pennsylvanians saw the debate or will see the debate in the coming days. The numbers on viewership will be out tomorrow.

  187. nice to hear the screaming-meanies at dkos, politico, etc. are getting their due. this is too sweet.

    time for a shot of crown royal.. 🙂

  188. LMAO. I just read three comments from bambi-BOYS that are saying they’re “crying at the injustice of the media!”

    LMAO 😀

  189. Its a testament to what we have acheived on this blog that the issues are being brought up by the moderators (ie Ayers) for the first time and not by Hillary Clinton ( ie Rezko).

  190. I tell you something, the SD’s should watch that tonight and see Hillary taking McCain out in a debate. Obama looked like he couldnt take out a 3 year old girl in a debate tonight.

    If thats meant to be presidential debating material, we are fucked and McCain will take him to pieces.

    SD’s you have been warned.

  191. Wow…..ombamazoids are going nuts all over the web.

    i’m sorry, but he’s running for president of the united states, if he can’t handle 2 reporters asking him ‘difficult’ questions – how is he going to handle the pressure cooker of the oval office? how is he going to handle iran, iraq, north korea and syria, if he can’t take george and charlie asking about a flag pin?

  192. i JUST remembered! ABC failed to mention REzko and the Auchi connection with Obama! That would’ve sealed the deal for him ‘cuz he was caught lying about that oen!

  193. Shocking! The obamabots think the media was unfair to their hero? The media did their job for the first time. They didn’t ask Bo, if he wanted a pillow. ROFL.

  194. moononpluto Says:

    April 16th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
    ABC says 45% of the focus group changed their votes tonight.

    HOLY SMOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  195. HAhaha. This is too good. I take VERY acute pleasure in watching the bambi-bots squirm, and tonight, they’re frikkn bawling, screaming, and hissing like babies! Imagine a Bambi-McCAin debate on Foxnews….how many bambi-bots do you think would implode? lol

  196. Pat shoulda said “bitter” lol

    I think HRC should start throwing comments back at OBama like..if he ever attacks her again just say “Well, you know Obama…the claws are coming out again!” or “he’s jsut a weensy bit bitter so he’s clinging to these attacks” lol

  197. I have to say, tonight was the big wake up call, he floundered and fell, he lay exposed and naked and Hillary made the point, this is a serious debate and he fucked it.

    Dreadful and Ambinder is right, he couldnt have done worse.

  198. Confloyd You’re right. The next debate will be by CBS. To prepare for it to MAKE SURE that Auchi and REzko are mainstream issues, let’s start emailing and calling Katie Couric and the CBS staff to ask questions about Rezko and Auchi! If we start early and call nearly every day, we can have them ask the question based on the popularity! lol

  199. Obama was exposed tonight, and he was SO upset. Poor guy — he’s used to Tim Russert and Campbell Brown.

    This is how a legitimate debate is conducted. Hillary was taken to task on several issues: Bosnia, Can Obama win?, guns, etc.

    What the apoplectic Obama fans aren’t used to is Obama being asked real questions. Charles Gibson did yeoman’s work tonight. Ditto for George.

  200. Simple question:

    If Rezko is on trial for bribery, why isn’t helping Obama buy a house, considered bribery?

  201. Where’s Tim Russert? I’m expecting him to come out cursing ABC and offering to cradle Obama’s head in his lap and kiss away his tears.

  202. Im still watching the debate and you know what? I have thrill going up my leg watching Hillary whomp him.

  203. There is an interactive poll at Drudge Report. Please vote for Hillary, now. Obama has more votes, so spread the word for everyone to vote for her.

  204. rjk1957 Says:

    April 16th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
    Focus group 55% would vote for Hillary and 45% Obama

    Oh come on. That would suggest some switched from Hill to BO. I simply can not believe tonight would be the night they would choose him.

  205. everyone, start emailing CBS demanding REzko and Auchi be topics to question Obama on next time! If we start early, there’s no WAY they can ignore our requests!

  206. Don’t tell me that nasty katy couric is moderating the next debate? She better not ask personal questions like that refrigerator one again. That was horribly inconsiderate. Katie sounded like a school girl asking that, afterall hasn’t she grown up yet!!

  207. Sorry, this is my first post…meant to inform that the interactive poll on Drudge is about tonight’s debate.

  208. A Post further up (sorry, I forgot who) said it all. When under acute pressure, Hillary can take it with flying colors, but Obama just wilts.

  209. confloyd – had heard that Couric might leave the network in a couple weeks so possibly before the debate. Hope they have someone else who doesn’t ask stupid questions.

  210. Wjo is TR? The AP headline is ridiculous. Hill wins the debate so they go with she says “emphatically BO can win GE”.

  211. I keep seeing Chelsea- who is beaming and beautiful. But where is Michelle- Im finally proud of the country?

  212. MJS Says:

    April 16th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
    HAhaha. This is too good. I take VERY acute pleasure in watching the bambi-bots squirm, and tonight, they’re frikkn bawling, screaming, and hissing like babies! Imagine a Bambi-McCAin debate on Foxnews….how many bambi-bots do you think would implode? lol
    lmao..they will implode,all of them..and cry for days and days,lol..american idol was on too so mariah will get some of those ratings ..great song called bye bye from her new album e=mc2…reminds me of one swet day..

  213. why would Hillary concede that Obama can take on McCain? And whats with the media bombarding us with Hillary being high in unfavorability

  214. i hope Hillary sends out her surrogates. Keep pressing Barack on Ayers, Wright, Bittergate, Hamas, Israel-flap (he waffled on this one), and sneak Auchi in there….


  215. They’re all playing up that Hill said BO could win – which she shouldn’t have said, btw. A simple I don’t know would’ve sufficed.

  216. She had to say he could take on McCain or she’d look bitchy, its a catch 22 question. they both had to say it.

  217. Gee, ABC headline, Clinton concedes BO could take on McCain. Why is this the headline? Can they get their fricken heads out of BO’s ass for like 5 minutes?

  218. there’s a pattern. barack only does debates where he is trailing badly.

    That’s why he agreed to the Penn debate and wanted ANOTHER DEBATE before Penn was here in North Carolina (possibly to stem any side effects of the penn debate before the Penn primary) but now that Hillary has pushed that debate to a more reasonable time, he is reluctant to do it in a state he sees as already “his”

  219. rjk1957 Says:

    April 16th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
    That was from the undecided focus group

    Right, but I simply to not believe anyone watching this debate and thought Hill won, or was leaning Hill, suddenly feels compelled to vote for BO.

  220. well, i remember Barack saying Hillary could win too. Why don’t the news sites say both mutually agree that either one could win?

    Oh well. Right now, it’s Pennsylvania’s voters that matter, as well as the other states that are watching. This debate has thoroughly shaken some dirt from BO for the world to see and left bambi-bots quailing in their boots.

    The most important aspect is how will the local PA news cover these stories for tomorrow?

  221. Nope, Blue Dem, then the headline would have been “Clinton not sure BO can win”, and they would have pummled her for it. The point is she won. That should be the headline. If he won, that would be the headline.

  222. I thought she said that BO could win against McCain because she would do everything she could to make sure that was the case if he were to win the nomination.

  223. lol, the obamabots got to the abc poll. Its like a mind control message is sent out like a hive , must vote obama, must vote obama.

  224. i was walking past olberman, and pat buchanan said, the answer that she would do massive retaliation in defense in response to bombing of isreal, was real bad. he said she better explain how she is goin to go against congress and start war like bush did…

    ADMIN, what do you think?

  225. Obama (what he was really saying) – Charlie do you ACTUALLY think I should be judge by the people I am associated with?
    – aaaa YEAH hello “you are the company you keep” and Hill should have said “Barack do you really think that your relationship with a terrorist bomber Ayers should not be an issue in voters minds?

  226. here’s what i just emailed to abc on the debate

    I have to say, I thought this was the first debate that was fair and balanced
    George and Charlie were the best debate MC’s of all 20+ debates!!
    Never did like the way the other debates seemed so biased, its refreshing
    To see a balanced adult debate.

    I must how ever ad that; I didn’t like how Senator Obama dodged his tough Questions.
    I think he stutter way too much and it makes him look too much like President Bush

    Thank you for this debate, as it has helped me finally decide that Sen Obama is not
    Ready to be president.

  227. That ABC poll is most DEFINITELY not scientific. It doesn’t mean a damn thing as to who won.

  228. That’s right MJ, she doesn’t think he can win – because he can’t!

    Look how they jumped on it. Forget what the story SHOULD be.

    The game is rigged!

  229. lol, did any of you see one question where Clinton just slipped the word bitter in and almost creased up laughing, she nearly burst out on that one.

  230. skmf12, we’ll wait for the transcript before commenting on that section of the debate. Just note that Buchanan is not very pro-Israel and the rest of MSNBC only wants to hurt Hillary.

    We did read (somewhere tonight) that Obama was very tentative on this issue. Obama spent today wooing supporters of Israel so the debate exchange might not help him.

    We’ll check the transcript/video before commenting further.

  231. Obama got crushed tonight, just destroyed. This is what the electorate needed to see tonight, and thank goodness that ABC did its job in a professional way, unlike CNN and MSNBC before it.

    Quick thoughts on the debate:


    Obama got caught in at least one lie tonight, I believe. About his not saying anything about the Bosnia episode. I could be wrong about that, but I think he did say something about that.

  232. Yeah the israel thing was not good for him, he tried to circumvent it any way possible, but she was right, if you have an ally and they are attacked, you defend them, its like NATO, you attack one country, its an attack on all.

    Anyway its a mute point because the first one to set off a nuke will start WW3, so it makes little difference.

  233. MJS Says:

    April 16th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
    if u check on the bambi boards, everyone is urging one another to vote multiple times.
    take a pic of it screen shot lol…then we can pass it around and say dont ever believe those online polls for clinton or obama..they are the ones who play dirty,and cant be truthful..there bitter tonight and i think abc knows that..

  234. How can anyone think BO is NOT lying about Wright after tonight?

    I disagreed with the Reverend’s comments before I was aware of the comments.

    I didn’t know about the comments before I condemed the comments.

    I didn’t hear the comments before I heard the comments.

    I didn’t know they were on YouTube.

    Im lying. nevermind.

    Bitter? Bitter?

  235. How do they defend BO in a debate where he was thoroughly trounced?
    Here’s the lead from the AP, it’s also the top story on AOL, HuffPost, TPM and more. Pisses me the fuck off.

    (AP)Hillary Rodham Clinton said emphatically Wednesday night that Barack Obama can win the White House this fall, undercutting her efforts to deny him the Democratic presidential nomination by suggesting he would lead the party to defeat.

    “Yes, yes, yes,” she said when pressed about Obama’s electability during a campaign debate six days before the Pennsylvania primary.

  236. I think Hillary had a good strong answer on Iran. If you attack a strong ally you’re toast. Remember that the Arab countries, in spite of how they feel about Israel, do NOT want an ascending Iran.

  237. i know confloyd, i nearly wet myself, she just slipped bitter in, stopped dead in her tracks nearly burst out and just continued on. You could tell she did it, just to piss him off.

  238. And Obama got caught in several lies tonight

    1. Bosnia- I have not said anything about the Bosnia issue.
    – but your campaign has
    – Of Course, but I haven’t

    2. Gun control. His handwriting is on the questionaire.

    3. Wright. I didn’t hear it but I disavowed it- but only the comments.

  239. blue-d

    unfortunately, the “yes, yes, yes” will be the headline in every msm outlet. hopefully, the folks of PA and beyond actually watched the debate.

  240. They both suceeded in nearly making him lose the rag tonight and have you noticed when he gets angry, he loses all focus for about 20 mins and rambles and it kept happening all over again, i think he’s a serious hothead.

  241. Head lines in the Philly and Pitt morning papers “What is the Relationship Between Obama and Ayers?” This should be good for at least 3 news cycles!

  242. Of course, we knew that MSM, Huff Post, etc. would try to squeeze out anything positive they possibly could for BO. And of course they don’t say that he (very reluctantly) said SHE could win. Hill made it clear that a Democrat has to win.

  243. Advice to the incense burners:

    Don’t be bitter. Obama should call Hillary and ask for advice on how to handle Big Media attacks. Don’t get angry or frustrated. Double up on the chanting. Burn more incense. Have a prayer session with “Pastor” Wright. Forget ABC – start calling Katie Couric and insist she not ask Rezko/Auchi questions. Write new “Hope” slogans. Turn Cling to God and Guns.

  244. Yeah, well, I prefer to think of it that way Emmy;

    I didn’t know she was going to use her rationale to SD’s to give them a talking point.

    I’m going to bed. Just can’t catch a fucking break.

  245. more USA Today headlines:

    Obama tied to lobbyists, but boasts of not taking money

    Obama’s claim of independence questioned

  246. Headlines should really read

    1 : Clinton kicks Obama’s ass from one end of PA to the other
    2 : Obama implodes in a ball of anger
    3 : Obama : I’m just crap at debates

  247. moononpluto: It very well could be. Untill tonite Willaim Arys was never broght up, now he is discribed as a home grown terrorist, and Obama knows him well!

  248. # djia Says:
    April 16th, 2008 at 11:19 pm

    usa today headline: Obama, Clinton agree the other can beat McCain

    Well, FINALLY somebody got it right!
    If you didn’t notice my earlier post, I found flyers for Obama today on campus. So I called the office of a legislature who is por-Hillary to find out woh ti sign up to volunteer for her cmpaign here in


    A statement from Obama campaign manager David Plouffe: “Tonight we saw a real choice between the old politics of point-scoring and distraction and a politics that focuses on bringing us together to actually solve the challenges we talk about every single election. Continuing the theme of her campaign, Senator Clinton used every single opportunity she had to launch misleading attack after misleading attack against Barack Obama, which is why polls show that most Americans think she’s running the most negative campaign and don’t believe she’s trustworthy. Barack Obama spoke about the issues that actually matter in people’s lives, like how he plans to end the war in Iraq, cut middle-class taxes, help people stay in their homes, and provide a secure retirement for our seniors. That’s why more Americans are putting their trust in Barack Obama to bring about the change we need in Washington.”

  250. I’m rewatching the beginning of the debate – I wish there was a way that she could’ve gotten around saying “yes,yes, he can beat McCain” because electability IS the issue. He CAN’T win, and won’t those words box her in later?

  251. admin,

    Advice to the incense burners: Don’t be bitter. Obama should call Hillary and ask for advice on how to handle Big Media attacks.

    Another SNL skit.

  252. The post got cut off. I volunteered for Hill’s campaign here in PR. (PRO-Hillary, I meant.)

  253. well Joe-
    He did say at another debate that he was looking forward to getting her advice. So maybe now is a good time.

  254. admin..yeah mademillions on what..he had 1.5 million then all of sunden..its 4 million from last year… money where did it come from..he hasnt worked at all,hasnt even been in his office..i wonder how mcuh a month he makes in the senate..

  255. Emmy, keep us all posted on developments. That Puerto Rico primary looks to be the cherry on top of the ice cream.

  256. admin,

    Also, Obama released his tax returns today which showed he has made millions lately.

    Notice he all of a sudden QUINTUPLED his charitable giving from his normal measly 1% all the way to 5%, which is STILL less than half what the Clintons gave in charity.

  257. May I remind ya’ll that the focus group was supposed to be undecided in order to participate…so I don’t understand the “45% changed their votes” bit.

  258. Tonighs rec’d diaries on DKOS ……..gawd i love it! 😀

    Crowd at ABC Debate Upset Over Questions…
    by Footbag

    122 comments (122 new)
    Tomorrow We Take On ABC, and Disney
    by Dartagnan

    414 comments (414 new)
    I live in Obama and Ayers neighborhood – some truth
    by tom32182

    47 comments (47 new)
    Fight Back! Post-Debate Call to Obamaction
    by Populista

    128 comments (128 new)
    CALL ABC AGAIN: 212-456-7777 and ask For Stephanopoulos’s VM
    by Billary Redux

    549 comments (549 new)
    ABC = “All ‘Bout Clinton” (Updated x2)
    by icebergslim

    150 comments (150 new)
    The Most Vetted Candidate in Recent History
    by thereisnospoon

    195 comments (195 new)
    UPDATE: GOP Attack on Reporter, Candidate, over Voter Registration IN-06
    by Barry Welsh

    111 comments (111 new)

  259. Tonight’s MYDD headlines …..seems the bots are out of their minds 😀

    ] Clinton’s Dilemma: The more negative she goes, the worse she does
    by Bob Johnson
    181 comments (181 new)

    [!] Fight Back! Post-Debate Call to Obamaction
    by Populista
    36 comments (36 new)

    [!] 19 Page WaPo/ABC poll – 61% of Dems say Obama more electable
    by upstate girl
    236 comments (236 new)

    [!] UPDATED: The Shot Heard `Round the World
    by alegre
    223 comments (223 new)

    [!] Obama supporters unite! Lets get on Rec list
    by wasder
    210 comments (210 new)

    [!] Undecideds Give Tonight’s Debate To HILLARY
    by alegre – April 16
    13 comments (13 new)

    [!] McCain FAILS Senior Citizens
    by McTrollop – April 16
    1 comment (1 new)

    [!] KUMBAYA
    by Veteran75 – April 16
    4 comments (4 new)

    [!] OH-16: John Boccieri, illegal immigration, new legislation
    by Greg Roach – April 16

    [!] ROLLING STONE Article Obama did not find offensive !
    by ATLJay – April 16
    30 comments (30 new)

    [!] The Flagpin?!? A Canadian perspective.
    by canadian gal – April 16
    20 comments (20 new)

    [!] Drudge poll: Obama won the debate (lol)
    by kingsbridge77 – April 16
    9 comments (9 new)

    [!] Handwriting’s on the Wall… Err Questionnaire
    by alegre – April 16
    46 comments (46 new)

    [!] President McCain
    by Otaku Saru – April 16
    2 comments (2 new)

    [!] Time Allotments For ABC News Clinton-Obama Debate In…
    by 2008 Central – April 16
    5 comments (5 new)

  260. I think a bucket of cold water just got thrown on the incense. And I don’t think they can dry it out and relight it before Tuesday.

  261. Yeah, no. I’m not giving the thumbs up when their own headline is Clinton says BO can win GE. What n earth was she going to say? They are treating this like it’s important because no one wants to say BO tanked.

  262. this is hilarious – Obamabot meltdown parody of Britney meltdown. On TM now:


  263. The people of Pennsylvania are salt of the earth hard working common sense people. They will not buy into his convoluted twisted answers. They will respond to Hillary Clinton’s straight-forward direct responses, including her mea culpa on Bosnia.

    Something BO could not do with regards to Wright, Ayers, gun control or anything at all.

  264. Univeral said this on TM. Its eloquent, spot on ad is what I was trying to say only much better said:

    Paul F. Villarreal

    Joined: 04 Mar 2008
    Posts: 33

    Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject: ABC hits a home run with its Pennsylvania debate


    ABC embarrassed CNN & MSNBC tonight, and made Saturday Night Live look dead-on with its parodies of those two networks’ debates.

    Tonight, Charles Gibson and George Stephanopolus showed Campbell Brown, Anderson Cooper, Tim Russert and Brian Williams how a professional moderator conducts him- or herself.

    There was no fawning. There was no stilted questioning. Clinton was asked about Bosnia. Obama was asked about BitterGate. Clinton was asked about her position on guns during her run for the NY Senate. Obama was asked about Jeremiah Wright. Clinton was asked about saying Obama would be crushed. Obama was asked about wearing a flag pin.

    I give you a real question and I give your opponent a real question, too. This is how it’s supposed to be done. And ABC absolutely nailed it.

    I have already heard moans and lamentations from Obama supporters, and I understand them: You all are used to Barack being handled like a fine glass vase. Reality can hit like a truck at high speed, and that is what you may have experienced tonight.

    To Republicans and other Democrats, we have been waiting for this moment and had given up hope that it would occur. Fair treatment, not the Clinton-bashing of a Russert or the Obama-salivating of a Brown. All we wanted was a level playing field, and tonight we finally had it.

    We all saw the results: Obama was reduced to trite ‘change/hope’-type lines and Clinton mopped the floor with him like the rookie he is. Obama even tried repeatedly chiding the moderators because it works so well with other in-the-tank media types. But George and Charles were determined to be professionals, and professionals they were.

    For now, just a heartfelt thanks to ABC for a magnificent job done. And a message to MSNBC and CNN:

    You have been exposed, as has Obama. You better step up your games, or else your ratings will plummet. The cat is out of the bag now, and there is no going back to the Fantasy Land you both tried to perpetuate before tonight.

    Pull yourselves together, now. And attempt to be bona fide journalistic outfits instead of the hacks and sycophants which you have sadly reduced yourselves to during this primary season.

  265. The people of PA did not know of Ayers till tonight, they are going to want more information. What a great can of worms that was opened 🙂

  266. Unbelievable.

    If you’re not watching Nightline, Cynthia asked Steph – Did anyone come out ahead tonight ?

    He answered – I’m not sure.


  267. We need to ask Universal to send that column, in whole, to Peter Salinger at ABC.

    Or ask his permission to send it ourselves, one of us.

  268. This is an immediate alert, and I’m sure it’s been posted here but I will repeat it.

    Call ABC and tell them you were happy with their professional coverage and moderating of tonight’s debate.

    The number:


    I just got off the phone with a woman there. I explained to her why she is receiving so many negative calls (Someone posted ABC’s number over at The Great Orange Satan’s and now it’s on the rec list), that I loved the debate, etc. She had no idea about Markos’s site, but she now is going to look into this and spread the word around the Disney offices.

    We must get this message to them and support them now. Please help. They are being deluged with calls from Obama people.

    Thanks. 🙂

  269. a republican’s POV – his first paragraph sets the tone – respects her as an adversary.

    National Review’s Jim Geraghty: Forty-Five Minute of Pummeling Before a Wonky Cooldown

    I don’t like Hillary Clinton. But I respect her as an adversary. And every once in a while, when she demonstrates she has the guts to “go there” in front of a Democratic audience that want their debates to be criticism-free lovefests, I’m tempted to say, “I like the cut of your jib, Senator.” It’s like watching a linebacker perfectly execute a blitz and flatten a quarterback from the blind side. It’s brutal, and tough to watch when it’s your guy being hit, but it’s within the rules and almost artistic when it’s perfectly executed.

    Tonight, she had her stumbles. Her answer on the Bosnia sniper tales really didn’t help her out that much; she needed to explain something bewildering to the average Joe, which is remembering things that didn’t happen. She made a lame joke about not getting enough sleep, but oddly, Obama didn’t jump in by mentioning her “3 a.m.” ads.

    But she tore into Obama on all of his weak spots. Relentlessly. For the most part, she avoided looking nasty while she did it. She focused on the ‘cling’ comment in the context of not understanding the role of religion in people’s lives. She repeated what Wright actually said the Sunday after 9/11, and probably introduced Wright’s blaming of America to a lot of people who had only heard Wright’s sermons through a media filter. She twisted the knife when she noted that people don’t choose their families, but they choose their pastor. When Obama tried to downplay his relationship to William Ayers, she brought up the Woods Foundation.

    After about forty-five minutes, David Axelrod probably should have thrown in the towel and stopped the fight.

    Obama got a little better as the night wore on, but the damage was done. He looked terrible tonight. He said he disowned Wright – contradicting his speech line about being no more able to disown Wright than his own grandmother — then backed away and said he only disowned his comments. When Hillary brought up Wright’s 9/11 comments, he merely lamented that some of his comments had been “objectionable.” He never quite explained why he stopped wearing the American flag pin, and he kept digging in deeper on William Ayers. He dismissed the question, then described Ayers as an “English professor.” He completely downplayed Ayers’ terrorist past, and said they didn’t exchange ideas “on a regular basis.” Then he compared his relationship to Ayers to his relationship with Senator Tom Coburn! Way to chase away the last of the Obamacans, Senator.

    Hillary closed by saying she’s a fighter. She proved that tonight; if I were on Team McCain, tonight might have convinced me to hope for a showdown with Obama.

    UPDATE: During the night, I wondered if Democrats would conclude she was too nasty and negative. But I don’t think she ever came across as shrill or sneering in her delivery, like when she did with the “slumlord Rezko” line a few debates ago. But I suppose it’s possible that tonight’s performance backfires, that Democrats see her as tearing down their Obamessiah. But my first gut instinct is that she’s knocking him off his pedestal with all of this…

  270. great faux headlines on Riverdaughter now:

    Now Hillary is Displaying her Depth and Breadth: Is there anything she won’t do to get elected?

    How Hillary Clinton Destroyed The Democratic Party By Purposefully Knowing More Stuff Than Barack Obama

    Head: Clinton Wipes Floor With Obama: Obama Declared Awesomest Floor Mop Ever
    Sub: Thousands of college students switch major to “floormoppage

    Obama doesn’t shit himself, wins debate

    and my winner is….

    ABC turns heat up on Obama, Hillary shows she can cook!

  271. linton Employs Broad Attacks in a Key Debate

    PHILADELPHIA — Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton went on the attack against Senator Barack Obama on a variety of issues during a contentious debate Wednesday, warning that he would be deeply vulnerable in a general-election fight if he won the nomination.

    Helped along by the questioning of the moderators, Mrs. Clinton mentioned several areas in which she said Mr. Obama was vulnerable, including the incendiary remarks by his former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., and his service on a board with William Ayres, a former leader of the radical Weather Underground. She even cited Louis Farrakhan, the Nation of Islam leader, who has endorsed Mr. Obama.

    “This is a legitimate area,” she said, “as everything is when we run for office.”

    But asked directly if she believed Mr. Obama could beat the likely Republican nominee, Senator John McCain, she answered, “Yes, yes, yes.”

    She quickly added: “I think I can do a better job. Obviously. That’s why I’m here.”

    In their final face-to-face encounter before the Pennsylvania primary on Tuesday, Mr. Obama largely refrained from taking the bait when offered the opportunity to go after Mrs. Clinton, like when the focus turned to her honesty and her claims of facing sniper fire during a trip to Bosnia.

    Instead, he was again forced to explain remarks he made at a fund-raiser last week in San Francisco, where he said that many small-town residents in Pennsylvania and elsewhere were “bitter” because of lost economic opportunities and “cling to” religion or guns or antipathy toward those not like them.

    He explained that he had “mangled” his thoughts and sought, once again, to explain that he was trying to express the frustration many economically stressed Americans feel.

    “The point I was making was that when people feel like Washington is not listening to them,” he said, “that politically they end up focusing on those things that are constant, like religion, which is a place they can find some refuge.”

    Wednesday’s nationally televised encounter at the National Constitution Center here was the 21st Democratic debate and the first in seven weeks. It may also be the last between Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton, and expectations were high that it would help define some of the issues that have divided them and the party since the last major primaries were held in Ohio and Texas in early March.

    While the two candidates are engaged in a fierce struggle for the nomination, many party leaders are looking ahead nervously to the general election in November, worried that whoever emerges as the nominee will be weakened by the long and increasingly bitter intramural contest. Mr. McCain has already picked up many of Mrs. Clinton’s accusations against Mr. Obama and used them in his speeches and advertising.

    Mrs. Clinton, asked about her misstatements about landing under sniper fire in Bosnia in 1996, expressed regret for her remarks.

    “I may be a lot of things, but I’m not dumb,” she said in explaining her exaggerated account. “On a couple of occasions in the last weeks, I just said some things that were not in keeping with what I knew to be the case.”

    “I’m embarrassed by it. I apologized for it. I said it was a mistake,” she added.

    Mrs. Clinton, under questioning by the debate moderators, Charles Gibson and George Stephanopoulos of ABC News, returned again and again to questions about Mr. Obama’s electability. She said that his comments about religion and guns had raised concerns among voters that the Democratic Party needs to prevail in the fall. She also said that Republicans would exploit doubts about Mr. Obama’s religious beliefs and his patriotism.

    “I’ve been in this arena for a long time,” she said. “I have a lot of baggage and everybody’s rummaged through it for years. I will be able to withstand anything the Republicans thrown our way.”

    Mr. Obama responded that he had no doubt that the Republicans would unleash a furious campaign against him if he won the nomination. “What I think I’ve shown in these primaries is I can take a punch,” he said. “I’ve taken a couple of pretty good ones from Senator Clinton.”

    Mrs. Clinton has made her testing in office and her presumed ability to withstand Republican charges a centerpiece of her campaign and her argument to superdelegates that they should support her, despite Mr. Obama’s lead in delegates and in popular votes.

    But polls released this week of Democrats in the coming primary states of Pennsylvania, Indiana and North Carolina show that a majority of them believe that Mr. Obama would be the stronger candidate in the general election.

    Both candidates expressed confidence that the party would rally around the eventual nominee, no matter how the long and bitter contest was resolved.

    “The Democratic Party will come together because we have no choice,” Mr. Obama said.

    Mrs. Clinton said, “I’m going to do everything I possibly can to make sure that one of us takes the oath of office next January.” She said it was “absolutely imperative” that the party closed ranks behind the nominee to defeat Mr. McCain. “I will go anywhere in the country to make the case, and I know Barack feels the same way,” she said.

    The debate capped a day that saw more successes in Mr. Obama’s drive to secure the nomination. Earlier Wednesday, the Obama campaign trumpeted the endorsements of three more superdelegates, a propitious and probably not coincidentally timed boost after a rough five days in which he came under fierce attack for his comments about small-town residents.

    And Mr. Obama on Wednesday courted Jewish leaders at a Philadelphia synagogue, criticizing former President Jimmy Carter for meeting with leaders of the group Hamas and distancing himself from incendiary remarks by the Rev. Wright.

    During the first half of the debate, the candidates spent so much time sparring over issues of character that they had little chance to discuss major issues that have dominated past debates, with Mr. Obama mentioning Iraq only about 40 minutes into the event.

    On Iraq, both candidates hewed to previous pledges to begin removing American troops shortly after taking office, although Mrs. Clinton was careful to say that she would ask the military leadership to report to her within 60 days on a reasonable timetable for withdrawal.

    They were asked how they would respond if Iran attacked Israel. Mr. Obama said that would be an attack on “our strongest ally in the region” but did not specify what the United States’ response would be. Mrs. Clinton, speaking forcefully, said such an attack “would trigger massive retaliation.”

    Both candidates said they stood by unequivocal statements made by their campaign aides that they would remove combat troops from Iraq, no matter the situation on the ground.

  272. After about forty-five minutes, David Axelrod probably should have thrown in the towel and stopped the fight.

    Oh if he only could have, he would have !

  273. Pa. Debate Stresses Politics Over Policy
    Obama and Clinton Talk About Gaffes

    By Dan Balz and Anne E. Kornblut
    Washington Post Staff Writers
    Thursday, April 17, 2008; A01

    PHILADELPHIA, April 16 — Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton both defended their handling of missteps and misstatements on the campaign trail — and directed sharp criticisms toward each other — during a potentially pivotal Democratic debate here Wednesday night.

    With the race for the Democratic presidential nomination mired in a form of trench warfare that has left party leaders searching for a way to bring it to a conclusion before the party’s late-summer convention, Clinton (N.Y.) and Obama (Ill.) began their first head-to-head encounter in nearly two months focused on political disputes rather than their relatively narrow policy differences. Obama, who leads in the delegates needed to claim the nomination, fielded tough questions about his relationship with his former pastor, his patriotism and his description of small-town voters as “bitter,” the latter a controversy that has engulfed his campaign for much of the past week.

    Obama argued repeatedly that voters are smart enough to differentiate petty issues from important economic matters.

    “So the problem that we have in our politics, which is fairly typical, is that you take one person’s statement, if it’s not properly phrased, and you just beat it to death,” Obama said. “And that’s what Senator Clinton’s been doing over the last four days. And I understand that. That’s politics. And I expect to have to go through this process. But I do think it’s important to recognize that it’s not helping that person who’s sitting at the kitchen table who is trying to figure out how to pay the bills at the end of the month.”

    The debate, moderated by ABC anchors Charles Gibson and George Stephanopoulos, included pointed questions from voters delivered via tape, including one who asked Obama why he does not wear an American flag pin and another who told Clinton she lost his vote with her misstatements about coming under hostile fire in Bosnia.

    Clinton addressed questions about voters’ deteriorating level of trust in her after her recent false claims to have ducked sniper fire during a trip to Bosnia. In perhaps her fullest explanations of her Bosnia gaffe to date, she noted she had already apologized and said that while she had gotten the details wrong, she was otherwise proud to have taken the trip.

    “I may be a lot of things, but I’m not dumb,” Clinton said. “I’m embarrassed by it, I have apologized for it, I said it was a mistake. It is, I hope, something you can look over, because clearly I am proud that I went to Bosnia.”

    Clinton, who has been quoted as saying in private conversations that she does not think Obama can win the general election, made her clearest statement to date of confidence in her rival. Asked whether he could win against Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), Clinton replied: “Yes, yes, yes.”

    “Now, I think I can do a better job, obviously — that’s why I’m here,” she said. “I think I am better able and better prepared in large measure because of what I’ve been through. . . . I believe I would be the best president, or I would not still be here standing on this stage.” Clinton repeated a core rationale for her candidacy from the start: that in order to implement Democratic policies, the candidate must be able to beat the Republican machine, which she feels she is best prepared to do.

    Obama — saying that he believes, like Clinton, that his rival can win but that he is better suited to do so — said his ability to unify the electorate would be the key to winning in November. “When we are unified, there is nothing that we cannot tackle,” he said.

    Both candidates ducked a query about whether they would agree to run together on the Democratic ticket.

    The debate at Philadelphia’s National Constitution Center, sponsored by ABC News, came with just 10 primary contests left on the calendar and loomed as one of the last times the two will square off.

    It marked the 21st time Clinton and Obama had shared the stage for a debate. And it took place not far from the site of the pivotal Democratic debate at Drexel University six months ago — in which Clinton gave a contradictory answer on allowing illegal immigrants to obtain driver’s licenses. That debate, on Oct. 30, triggered a downward spiral for Clinton that ultimately bottomed out with her third-place finish in the Iowa caucuses.

    Clinton hopes to keep her long-shot candidacy moving forward with a victory in the Pennsylvania primary on Tuesday. She has held her own in most polls in the state, boosted by endorsements from Gov. Edward G. Rendell and Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter as well as strong support among working-class white voters.

    The most positive scenario Clinton aides are envisioning has her sweeping Pennsylvania with a double-digit margin over Obama, rolling up victories in Indiana and North Carolina two weeks later, and winning the remaining contests through June 3 — at which point superdelegates, convinced that she would have a better chance of winning the general election, would support her.

    That scenario, however, would require many trends to begin reversing themselves for Clinton — including her sagging favorability ratings and the growing number of Democrats who think Obama is better positioned to win the general election, according to the latest Washington Post-ABC News poll.

    Obama leads in the overall delegate race with 1,641, compared with 1,504 for Clinton, according to an unofficial count by the Associated Press. A total of 2,025 delegates are needed to clinch the nomination.

    In a new fundraising pitch sent to supporters on Wednesday, former president Bill Clinton offered the same advice he gives his wife, to “block out the distractions — the skeptics, the media coverage, the Beltway chatter — and keep your eyes on the prize.” His e-mail solicited as little as $5, saying that even a small amount “can help Hillary win.”

    En route to the debate, Obama picked up critical support on Wednesday from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, the largest newspaper in the western part of the state, as well as the backing of superdelegates in Indiana and North Carolina: from Rep. André Carson of Indianapolis, a new member of Congress who replaced his grandmother in a recent special election; and from Reps. David E. Price and Melvin Watt of North Carolina, who had previously endorsed former senator John Edwards (N.C.). Bruce Springsteen — a popular rock star, if not a superdelegate — weighed in for Obama as well.

    Clinton picked up support from the Operative Plasterers’ and Cement Masons’ International Association, which has 45,000 members.

    Obama went into the debate bracing for questions about what may be his biggest gaffe of the race: his comment that small-town voters are “bitter” and cling to religion or guns as a result. Although there has been no sign of superdelegate defections over the remark, Obama has been on the defensive since his comments were reported. His advisers hope that Clinton overplayed her hand in attacking him.

  274. No Whining About the Media
    By David Brooks

    Three quick points on the Democratic debate tonight:
    First, Democrats, and especially Obama supporters, are going to jump all over ABC for the choice of topics: too many gaffe questions, not enough policy questions.
    I understand the complaints, but I thought the questions were excellent. The journalist’s job is to make politicians uncomfortable, to explore evasions, contradictions and vulnerabilities. Almost every question tonight did that. The candidates each looked foolish at times, but that’s their own fault.
    We may not like it, but issues like Jeremiah Wright, flag lapels and the Tuzla airport will be important in the fall. Remember how George H.W. Bush toured flag factories to expose Michael Dukakis. It’s legitimate to see how the candidates will respond to these sorts of symbolic issues.
    The middle section of the debate, meanwhile, was stupendous. Those could be the most important 30 minutes of this entire campaign, for reasons I will explain in point two:
    Second, Obama and Clinton were completely irresponsible. As the first President Bush discovered, it is simply irresponsible statesmanship (and stupid politics) to make blanket pledges to win votes. Both candidates did that on vital issues.
    Both promised to not raise taxes on those making less than $200,000 or $250,000 a year. They both just emasculated their domestic programs. Returning the rich to their Clinton-era tax rates will yield, at best, $40 billion a year in revenue. It’s impossible to fund a health care plan, let alone anything else, with that kind of money. The consequences are clear: if elected they will have to break their pledge, and thus destroy their credibility, or run a minimalist administration.
    The second pledge was just as bad. Nobody knows what the situation in Iraq will be like. To pledge an automatic withdrawal is just insane. A mature politician would’ve been honest and said: I fully intend to withdraw, but I want to know what the reality is at that moment.
    The third point concerns electability. The Democrats have a problem. All the signs point to a big Democratic year, and I still wouldn’t bet against Obama winning the White House, but his background as a Hyde Park liberal is going to continue to dog him. No issue is crushing on its own, but it all adds up. For the life of me I can’t figure out why he didn’t have better answers on Wright and on the “bitter” comments. The superdelegates cannot have been comforted by his performance.
    Final grades:
    ABC: A
    Clinton: B
    Obama: D+


  275. Returning the rich to their Clinton-era tax rates will yield, at best, $40 billion a year in revenue.


    Brooks is an idiot. RightWingers cannot come to grips with the reality that when you cut tax rates revenue declines and when you raise tax rates revenue increases.

    For the life of me I can’t figure out why he didn’t have better answers on Wright and on the “bitter” comments.

    Because he didn’t have a Teleprompter.

  276. I can not believe this is the coverage. Hillary was brilliant on policy, and she didn’t attack BO anymore than he attacked her. Cookies anyone? Pathetic reporting.

  277. MJ

    I think there has been alot of good comments about hill tonight as well as articles being fair (sort of) of the reporting on it

    i am positive everyone in PA watched the debate tonight as well as the remaining states that have primaries coming up.

  278. Here is a copy of a letter to the editor I sent to the following newspapers:

    – Philadelphia Inquirer
    – Philadelphia Daily News
    – Scranton Tribune
    – Pittsburgh Post Gazette
    – Allentown Morning Call
    – Erie Times News

    ABC’s Philadelphia Debate Reaction: Fantastic work by ABC

    ABC embarrassed CNN & MSNBC tonight, and made Saturday Night Live look dead-on with its parodies of those two networks’ debates.

    Tonight, Charles Gibson and George Stephanopolus showed Campbell Brown, Anderson Cooper, Tim Russert and Brian Williams how a professional moderator conducts him- or herself.

    No fawning. No stilted questioning. Clinton was asked about Bosnia. Obama was asked about BitterGate. Clinton was asked about her position on guns during her NY Senate fun. Obama was asked about Jeremiah Wright. Clinton was asked about saying Obama would be crushed. Obama was asked about wearing a flag pin.

    I give you AND your opponent real questions. This is how it’s supposed to be done.

    Many have been waiting for this moment and had given up hope that it would occur. All we wanted was a level playing field, and tonight we finally had it.

    The result: Obama was reduced to trite ‘change/hope’-type lines and Clinton shone brightly. Obama even tried repeatedly chiding the moderators because it works so well with other media. But George and Charles were determined to be professionals, and professionals they were.

    For now, just a heartfelt thanks to ABC for a magnificent job done.

    Paul F. Villarreal

  279. “Pa. Debate Stresses Politics Over Policy”

    Considering Obama gapes like a fish when asked about policy, he better be careful what he complains about.

  280. gerond Says:

    April 17th, 2008 at 12:51 am
    “Pa. Debate Stresses Politics Over Policy”

    Considering Obama gapes like a fish when asked about policy, he better be careful what he complains about.

    That’s the problem. It’s not her fault that they brought up all his whacky associations. And, the policy stuff she crushed him on.

  281. go vote


    Hillary should have said Obama can not beat McCain

    I am tired of the headlines reporting Clinton says Obama can win

    They are not stating Obama says Hillary can win also

  282. Honestly, I hope the voters see through this smoke and mirrors. Hill did not attack him. His vulnerablities were FINALLY brought up. It’s not her fault.

  283. It’s not that. It’s the end of the link. I put in the “on” after “clint” but it still didn’t work.

  284. “Hillary should have said Obama can not beat McCain”

    Then the headline would have read “Clinton goes negative and says Obama can not beat McCain.” Still nothing about how Hillary cleaned his clock.

    Same ol’ same ol’

    No matter what Hillary does, she will not get good press. She could save a baby from getting run over by a truck and they would report she was grandstanding for news headlines so close to the PA primary. But don’t assume the average Josaphene/joe are dummies. The media has cried wolf too many times. They will make up their own minds based on what they think is best for them. Have faith in the American people. I do.

  285. “I wish there was a way that she could’ve gotten around saying “yes,yes, he can beat McCain” because electability IS the issue. He CAN’T win, and won’t those words box her in later?”

    *shrugs* There’s no way she could have gotten around it. If she came out and told the truth, the Democratic Establishment and BM would CRUCIFY her. Honestly, if the SDs are so dumb they’re taking that to heart instead of appreciating it as the statement of someone who’s loyal to her party, then we’re screwed anyway. I don’t think it will go anywhere, the voters are smarter than the party officials.

  286. Don’t worry about the yes, yes , yes…..I believe she is setting it up that whoever wins the nomination, they will OF COURSE want to make sure to win the white house too.
    Truly…I believe Hillary knows she’s already won or is dang close(Geraldine Ferraro seemed rather sure in her comments on FOX) and is extending the olive branch to Obama supporters to unite.
    She wouldn’t dare say he couldn’t win, think about it! It would be so ELITIST if she did.


  288. i have to go watch the debate in full. the nutkooks and obamabots are whining. i will check obama’s blog to see.lol.

  289. Terrondt, beware of where you wander in the internets tonight. There are raving gangs of incense burners at certain sites furious at what happened to Obama. They are hopeless and bitter.

    Obama was asked about Ayers, Wright, flag pins and bitterness (pretty much everything we wrote about yesterday in our Torpedo articles – although Rezko/Auchi and Obama’s Champagne toasts are for another day). Obama did not handle the questions well.

    Hillary did very well tonight. She was brilliant as usual. Get your Hillary Fix soon.

  290. Thanks admin! Haven’t been posting much. I have a lot of school work but I’m visiting daily. The Obamabots are pissed! LOL. I love it.

  291. “Truly…I believe Hillary knows she’s already won or is dang close”

    I agree. I think after she wins PA, IN, KY, WV, SD, PR , it will be very difficult for them (DNC) to just up and give it to Obama. February is fast fading into distant electoral memory. We are dealing with the here and now. And the here and nows are mostly victories for Hillary. Many is the Party may have all ready realized what we have known all along. He is not ready to be President. They dare not make his backers upset, so they will let this process just work itself out. Have you noticed how the “elders” have become so silent all the sudden? Fear has struck the heart of the enemy. Hence all the static from the Obama camp and his media running dogs about her dropping out. At this point, there is lots of psychological warfare going on to sway the SDs. We all know now it is they who will decide the nominee. The remaining primaries are just showcases for each side to perform their skits for the jurors. This is why tonight’s debate was so important. It was not just for the voters, but more importantly, since we can pretty much predict the outcome for the remaining contests, for the SDs

  292. on facebook there is a part were you can put what your thinking and it flashes your face and your comment and it rotates peoples comments, wow the obama fans are out tonight they are very scared and very angry at the media and the debate. So i put “hey obama fans, looks like your hero didn’t get a cnn pillow tonight! hee hee!

  293. Universal,

    At the number you gave, I got referred to another. After a long branching menu I did get a prompt for ‘news specials’ that took a 30-second comment.


  294. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9675.html

    Sen. Barack Obama faced his toughest grilling yet in a presidential debate Wednesday night, spending the first 45 minutes of his last scheduled meeting with Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton defending his own words and his associations with several controversial figures.

    Clinton allowed Obama to do most of the talking during the first half of the debate, and for good reason – moderators Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulos from ABC News quizzed the Illinois senator on a litany of unpleasant topics. The now-familiar list included whether Obama understood that Pennsylvanians found his comments about the bitterness of small town America to be patronizing; why he did not disassociate himself earlier from the Rev. Jeremiah Wright; and why he maintains a relationship with a former member of the radical 1960s group, Weather Underground.


    In fact, the questions essentially constituted the Republican case against Obama in a general election. He appeared tense, and dispensed with the questions in way that was unlikely to inflict any more damage as heads into next weeks’ voting. But the tone of the questioning also reflected that Obama has yet to put the controversies that have dogged him over the past few weeks to rest.

  295. I have not seen the debate yet just reading great blogs on hillary is 44! Could you tell me where I can find the debate?

  296. Well it looks like jake tapper found something on Hillary I hope this doesn’t get far! a screw em comment

    ‘Screw ’em,’ she said, ‘you don’t owe them a thing, Bill, they’re doing nothing for you.’ Bill rose to their defense, ‘as if rehearsing an old but honorable debate he had been having with his wife for decades,'” as one attendee recalled.

    “‘I know these boys,’ Bill said. ‘I grew up with them. Hardworking poor white boys who feel left out.’ He pointed out that liberal reforms had often ‘come at their expense’ and that the Democrats had to ‘find a way to include these boys in our programs.’ Hillary had no rejoinder, but during cocktails after the seminar she stood apart, ‘opaque and unsmiling.'”

  297. winhillary – i think that was this afternoon they were discussing. not sure it has legs – seems anecdotal with no video/audio proof, or sounds like it’s from a republicans tabloid book on the clintons. anyway, someone on TM was debunking earlier – depends on if the press continue to run with it.

  298. sorry I was off looking at the other reports.

    Geraldine Ferraro said on Fox tue/or wed that with all things figured in Hillary is maybe down 6 delegates, and that she was going to win the nomination. she wasn’t sounding like it was a maybe thing, but wouldn’t elaborate. I suspect the campaign is holding on to something big that we don’t know yet.

    Thats my take, she seemed very sure of what she was saying.

  299. debbie – maybe Ferraro and Clinton campaign know that DNC plans to seat the FL and MI delegates – that would explain the 6 delegates behind comment.

    also, before I go to bed – any way you could get some evidence of those SEIU members told to boo Clinton? would be damning stuff for BO’s newest ad and overall tactics.

  300. ‘Screw ‘em,’ Michelle said, ‘you don’t owe them a thing, Barak, they’re doing nothing for you.’ Barak rose to their defense, ‘as if rehearsing an old but honorable debate he had been having with his wife for decades,’” as one attendee recalled.

    “‘I read about these boys in some book,’ Barak said. ‘Hardworking poor white boys who feel left out.’ He pointed out that liberal reforms had often ‘come at their expense’ and that the Democrats had to ‘find a way to include these boys in our programs.’ Michelle had no rejoinder, but during the wine and brie party after the seminar she stood apart, ‘opaque and unsmiling.’”

  301. Sorry I wasn’t here. wanted to be, but hubby wanted to be out (drinking). I had a great time and watched it with novices. All of whom said- Hillary pwned 👿 .

    it was AWESOME. I was calling out points on taxes. Especially on income, an she NAILED him. I love her. I love you guys.

    I am wasted. And thinking that I might devolve into ultimate Hillary Love.

    Hillary is 44. Cheers!!!

  302. Oh, for god’s sake. “Screw ’em,” screw who? All working class people, or was she talking about something specific? That’s just pathetic.

  303. hillfans, i have to get out of this job getup, slip on some sweatpants and flip on the debate. i have to get off the computer. reading the reviews and comments on here and TM is great. i also visited hillaryclinton.com blog. they are hopping happy over there too. the nutkooks at obama.com are cryin in their beer. YAY FOR OUR GIRL.

  304. If all politics is local and if 10 million in Pennsylvania saw that happened then that is more important than what the confirmed Clinton hating AP says says about it. They cannot deal off the top of the deck, even if there life depended on it

  305. What I can tell you is SEIU is putting 75000 troops in PA and putting up to $1 million on the ground. there is no “official” word they they boo down Hillary, however I know the tactics and it is not beneath them. If they are within earshot of Hillary..expect it.

  306. I was going to post an excerpt from a Nat’l Review story I read where the conservative author showed admiration for Hill’s toughness.
    But this is funnier, from TL, a true blue Hill supporter making sure everyone knows it;

    “You should the hate mail I’ve gotten. And Obama supporters are vandals. I have had my Hillary sign on my garage vandalized six times.
    I live in San Francisco.

    I finally had to get a lucite covering and deadbolted to the garage.
    $75 for lucite and $40 to handy man to install it.
    Some of them are simply insane.”

  307. SEIU leaders are women haters, too, they broke into the Labor Notes conference and injured people trying to get to the head of he California Nurses Association, and they’ve showed up at CNA members’ houses trying to scare them and harassing their kids. Typical Obamaesque behavior.

  308. gerond Says:

    April 17th, 2008 at 2:55 am
    SEIU leaders are women haters, too, they broke into the Labor Notes conference and injured people trying to get to the head of he California Nurses Association, and they’ve showed up at CNA members’ houses trying to scare them and harassing their kids. Typical Obamaesque behavior.
    These guys are leftest goon squads…the same kind you see in Latin American dictatorships.

  309. wbboei,
    you mean the temperature or the political weather? We are having an early summer, in the low 80’s recently. Politically, there is a big nationalistic anti-foreign backlash because of the Tibet thing. Saturday taxis are going to refuse to pick up foreigners and some are calling for boycotts of foreign stores and goods. The French are being picked out for special treatment because of the Paris protests. I am supposed to go pick up a sticker that shows I am for the Olympics, otherwise I could get spat at or worse. No fun!

  310. paddy

    that’s horrible!(not the weather that sounds great)….but i have to ask, sorry if you’ve already answered this b4, i must not have been around then, but why are you in china?

  311. surfing tonight and found this on hills blog

    From AOL Political Machine:

    “Outside of Philadelphia’s National Constitution Center tonight, throngs of Hillary supporters completely overwhelm the tiny effort by Obama supporters. If I had to guess I would say the ratio is 50:1. I’m very suprised at such a poor showing here in Philadelphia where Obama is expected to make most of his gains in the state’s primary on Tuesday. One thing though – the poor guy with the megaphone shouting himself hoarse yelling “Yes We Can!” probably wishes Obama’s catch phrase and Hill-ar-y didn’t have the same amount of syllables.

    Great push by the Clinton organization! Credit where credit is due.”

  312. They’re not leftists, carbynew, they’re actually right-wing unionists who are against universal health care and want to work with Republicans in CA and other states to cover up elder abuse in nursing homes and stuff.

  313. Hillarious! I just got banned from Daily Joke! I didn’t even make one comment in my diary but let the people talk amongst themselves and they banned me.

    As Admin said, when Kos and the gang has a tough day, hide the animals.

    Ha ha ha! The person who banned me said that I would likely be bragging about it somewhere else.

    Yep, you’re damn right I will. Those jokes are revealing themselves for the Stalinist impersonators they are, and if you think I’ll revel in that, you are 100% correct.

    Tonight I was a ‘racist’ and ‘Republican operative.’ What an utter farce.

    That’s what happens when The Golden Child falls down, goes boom.

    If he is nominated, we are going to get trounced. And tonight, the True Believers understood that clearly.


  314. universal

    I was hanging at kos a bit tonight, seen your post (rec’d it too 😀 )

    they are all a bunch of freekin loonatics over there……..very scary blog site

    I believe they have RUINED the reputation of that place for good.

  315. Obama’s tax plan is very regressive…even I don’t like it…raise the capital gains and payroll tax…geesh. The republicans are going to have a field day with Obama’s plan.

    Also KO at MessNBC is saying Hillary’s plan for the middle east is too much is too strong…but isn’t New York suffer two attacks in the last 12 years?

  316. djia, work related for both me and spousey. I dare not say more because of the bad e-manners of our opponents. It’s usually interesting, but now I feel a little vulnerable. It’s a very male place, if you know what I mean.

  317. Admin…….let’s make those bots on kos really nutso and do a daily kos in the dumps piece

    a this was “then” and this “now” post 😀

  318. carbynew

    I think all of obama’s plans are “fabricated” for him, i think we would not know the “true” plans until he took office…..like with bush

    also……..KO certainly had a bad news day he looked like steam was coming out of his ears and nose tonight (yesterday):D

  319. “I don’t like Hillary Clinton. But I respect her as an adversary. And every once in a while, when she demonstrates she has the guts to “go there” in front of a Democratic audience that want their debates to be criticism-free lovefests, I’m tempted to say, “I like the cut of your jib, Senator.” It’s like watching a linebacker perfectly execute a blitz and flatten a quarterback from the blind side. It’s brutal, and tough to watch when it’s your guy being hit, but it’s within the rules and almost artistic when it’s perfectly executed.”

  320. oh, by-the-way, the Chinese are hopping mad at CNN for calling the Chinese and their products names on some program this week. The government has called for an apology and the people are demanding that they be deported from China. CNN claims the insults were meant for the government and not the people. CNN, what a bunch of dupes! Yes, exile them to the Gobi desert.

  321. paddy, I did see somewhere that cafferty had to apologies to the Chinese LOL

    sure wish he’d be made to apologies to Hill too

  322. Djia — Thanks for the rec! 🙂

    They have destroyed their credibility, those associated with the site. What they don’t yet understand is that Barack is their next Dean, their present Lamont.

    I understand why Kos felt he had to ban me: He has pretty much his entire reputation riding on Obama, and he knows I’m not drinking the Kool-Aid. If you can’t beat someone in a debate, you silence him. A long-used tactic that has been visited by the Daily Jokes and the MyDD’s of the world.

    Those guys know how much of a ‘problem’ someone like myself can be (that is, someone who is informed and can elucidate his points well and not fall into the Jedi Mind Trick traps and who is not in The Cult): they can’t get me autobanned, can’t hold up against my arguments and factual presentation and have only personal insults to resort to. Plus, they know that my diaries always draw a crowd, so people are listening.

    Mao would have been proud. If you want to see the left run horribly amok in a cult of personality, you have two excellent, current examples: Barack Obama and Daily Joke.

    The silliest part of the whole thing is that I know Kos respects my work and has some affinity for me. And I feel similarly for him. But business is business, and I get that. The same reason why J Marshall sold himself out this election is why Kos felt he had to ban me now. I know how it works.

    I’ll miss sending the various front pagers scurrying like cockroaches when they took runs at me, but I can just set up a tether ball nearby and experience the same level of competition. 😉

    skmf12: Thanks very kindly, my friend!

    Great night for Hillary. I can’t wait to go through the footage again and watch Oborema get taken apart by Chuck and George. This is the blueprint, this is what is going to be done by the GOP. You think it’s a coincidence Barack is staying away from FOX?

    Ha ha ha.


  323. GEROND,

    for those people on some of the blogs who are posting about
    the ‘screw em’ story by huffpo, i’ve been posting back:


    and thats what hillary needs to say. this guy wrote this in a book in 2001, from something he says he remembers in 1995?
    well, hillary remembers it different, right?
    no way hillary was hating ‘their’ people…

  324. Hey, an out-of-context alleged quote from a completely unreliable source smells like a smoking gun to me.


    your are right, this is the winning formula for us, ob’s been telling
    hillarys story, now hillary should tell his…

  326. its a red hearing and a cheap one at that. Just days away from voting, they release a story about somebody said somebody said something once upon a time after a few beers, etc. So if we dig up something in a used book shop written some time ago where somebody said they were at a party with Obama many years ago and he said such and such and such……

    Come on. Now we know they realize their candidate is in some deep kim chee. Desperados.

  327. New article is up for the amusement of those still celebrating. There is also a bonus youtube in the comments section.

  328. I saw the article on Drudge which sends you to LA Times and his 3 new SD’s…Also, Zogby’s brother, James, is a SD for Obama and big in the Arab community.
    As promised, I refused to watch b/c predictably, she creams this lightweight , the headlines are either misleading or “Hillary attacks”….I trust from todays headlines, she wiped him out again!!! Hope we win big in PA…

  329. Would A Dem Say This?

    By Big Tent Democrat, Section Media
    Posted on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 01:31:40 PM EST
    Tags: (all tags) Share This:
    By Big Tent Democrat

    Speaking for me only and post edited

    Would a Democrat say:

    There’s really no difference between what happened in the Bush years and the Clinton years; that there’s not much difference in how small-town Pennsylvania fared when Clinton was president, and in this decade when Bush was President.

    Or would a Democrat dispute that point? In a way, there is a certain clarity that is being reached in the Obama blogworld – they want the Clinton part of the Democratic Party and the Clinton legacy demolished and destroyed. I personally think that leads to political suicide for the Democratic Party. But the Unity Schtick does not appear to extend to fellow Dems from the Obama blogs. Their hatred of Bill and Hillary Clinton has become more important to them than Obama’s chances of winning in November.

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