Superdelegate Rezko

Of all the Superdelegates, the two most powerful Superdelegates at the Democratic National Convention this summer will be Superdelegate Wright and Superdelegate Rezko. Neither Wright nor Rezko will be actual Superdelegates with an actual vote, but their influence on the vote will be supersized.

The actual Superdelegates, the ones with the actual votes, will be looking at the rise of the anti-Obama vote created in the wake of Obama’s “Pastor” Wright’s “God Damn America” sermons. The actual Superdelegates will also be looking at the Rezko trial.

Levine’s testimony in the Rezko trial puts Davis in the middle of an attempted quid pro quo, making him yet another associate Obama might be pressured to disown. And the trial could stretch well into May, at which point a Rezko conviction could lead to even more headaches for the candidate. If Rezko is looking at a long prison sentence and decides to start talking, who knows what he might say?

We’ve heard for the longest time that neither the Governor of Illinois, nor Barack Obama are targets of the prosecution in the corrupt slumlord Rezko trial.

While Obama is not considered a target of the Rezko investigation, Stewart says it will shed light on a man who was pivotal to Obama’s political career.

“This wasn’t just some guy who wrote a check once for Barack Obama, it’s someone who was an early supporter and had a personal relationship with Sen. Obama for quite some time,” Stewart said.

The latest testimony at the slumlord Rezko trial has directly implicated the Illinois Governor in having knowledge of at least one corrupt scheme. Maybe now Big Media can abandon the narrative that the Rezko trial does not implicate any “higer-ups”. Prosecutor Fitzgerald, like most prosecutors, will use the little fish to get the big fish. In Chicago there are plenty of big fish to catch.

Chicago corruption is legendary. The gangs of Chicago always find marvelous new ways to corrupt public officials. They used to pass paper bags filled with money under the table to corrupt officials. Now the kickbacks and corruption appear more diverse and more, um, bourgeois. Appointments to state boards and commissions and gifts of houses are the fashion these days among Chicago gangs.

Levine used his positions on various state boards to steal as much money as he could from people with business before those boards. One of those people was a Hollywood producer and financier named Tom Rosenberg. Rosenberg was a principal at a firm called Capri Capital. Capri managed over a billion dollars for the Illinois Teachers Retirement System, of which Levine was a trustee.

Through a variety of corrupt means, including allowing TRS executive director Jon Bauman to write his own (glowing) evaluations, Levine wielded a disproportionate amount of influence over TRS investment decisions. Levine used this influence to steer TRS contracts to whomever would pay him and his associates the biggest “finder’s fees.” Levine decided that Rosenberg was getting far too much TRS business and paying far too little in the form of kickbacks to him and his cronies — an arrangement that Levine saw an opportunity to amend when Capri sought a new contract from TRS in early 2004.

According to his testimony, Levine and an associate named Bill Cellini (both Republicans) conspired with two of Governor Blagojevich’s top fundraisers and advisers — Tony Rezko and a roofing contractor named Chris Kelly (both Democrats) — to offer Rosenberg a choice: Either pay a $2 million bribe or raise $1.5 million for Blagojevich’s re-election campaign. Rosenberg was to be made to understand that all of his business with TRS was at stake.

Levine testified that Allison Davis, a lawyer friend of Rosenberg’s, was the go-between. Davis allegedly approached Rezko on behalf of Rosenberg to ask about Capri’s business with TRS, and he told Rezko that Rosenberg would be willing to do some fundraising for Blagojevich if that would speed things along. Rezko told Davis that Rosenberg should “call Stuart Levine.” [snip]

Rosenberg’s threat convinced the alleged conspirators to back off, and — in the biggest bombshell to emerge during the trial so far — Levine testified that Rezko told him that Governor Blagojevich had been informed of the situation. Prosecutors also played a recorded conversation between Cellini and Levine that appeared to confirm Levine’s testimony. In it, they discussed how “the big guy” had implied that Rosenberg should not get any further business from the state.

Superdelegate Davis can now be added to Superdelegate Rezko and Superdelegate Wright. We wrote about Davis a long time ago. Davis has been protecting Obama for a while now. It was Davis who tried to deflect questions about Obama’s involvements with Rezko. Davis even tried to deceive Chicago newspapers by saying Obama had no real estate experience as a lawyer. It is Davis who promised but never delivered law firm records which would show how many hours Obama really worked on Rezko projects.

Davis is another 20 year plus judgment by Barack Obama.:

Obama’s relationship with Allison Davis — the alleged go-between in Rezko’s scheme to shake down Tom Rosenberg — could pose another problem for him. Obama worked for Davis at the law firm of Davis Miner Barnhill. Later, when Obama sat on the board of a charity called the Woods Fund, he voted to invest $1 million in a partnership operated by Davis, according to the Chicago Sun-Times.

Davis is another lovely friend of Obama, what with the benzene and all:

Obama’s former boss “Davis soon went into business with Rezko, creating a company called New Kenwood LLC to build the seven-story apartment building for senior citizens on a vacant stretch of land once occupied by a gas station at 48th and Cottage Grove. The city of Chicago owned the land — nearly two acres tainted by lead, benzene and other toxic chemicals. Davis is a member of the Chicago Plan Commission. He was originally appointed to the commission in 1991 by his friend, Mayor Daley. Davis, like Rezko, has been a prolific campaign fund-raiser for politicians including Daley and Obama.”

This is Chicago after all. Michelle Obama works for the Landmarks Commission, Obama’s boss is on the Planning Commission, Obama does legal work for Rezko real estate, Michelle works for a hospital, the Obama house was sold by a doctor, there are doctors investing in real estate with Rezko including in the Pizza parlors now in such deep legal troubles. We are sure this is all coincidence. We won’t even mention Todd Stroger and the corruption swirling around him and his dad and how Obama endorsed Todd and why Todd’s father had to leave public life. That’s for another day.

We do recall, as we have written before, that while Obama was writing letters to benefit by millions of dollars his indicted slumlord friend Antoin “Tony” Rezko, Obama’s African-American constituents were freezing in their tenements. Obama was busy writing letters.

Ever so slowly American voters are getting an ‘honest’ picture of Obama. Maybe someday we’ll even hear about Michelle Obama’s work at the boards she was appointed to.


374 thoughts on “Superdelegate Rezko

  1. I’ve been reading up on White Water again. I had the facts a little bit wrong. McDougal, the owner of the S&L whose failure was at the heart of White Water, was tried and acquitted in 1989 – a few years before Bill even began his run. Federal prosecutors had gone in, looked around and found no evidence of corruption on Clinton’s support and couldn’t make their case against McDougal. But in 1992, the year of the campaign, the DOJ, under George Bush, began looking into Whitewater again. The Clinton’s didn’t know this until AFTER they had won the election. And it bears reminding, that two more prosecutors looked into Whitewater – Fiske (the first after the election) and Starr. Neither of them could ultimately find any evidence of corruption on Clintons’ part.

    This is salient because if Obama is being investigated for his relationship with Rezko, the Republicans aren’t going to tip their hat on that either.

    I have to say that I am heart broken with the Democratic party today for not taking a stand against Rhodes’ despicable comments about Clinton and Ferraro and Obama’s lack of a response. I cannot believe that this party is willing to tolerate such over misogyny against someone with Clinton’s accomplishments and loyalty.

    I am very, very sad today. This is not the nation I thought it was. And I’m not that much of an optimist in the first place. But even I am shocked and dismayed about this.

    Admin – beautiful job as usual.

  2. ADMIN,

    someday, we may be victorious…
    and i hope to read your memoirs, and the story of:


  3. just poppin in and out tonight…….but something was nagging me all day today with the talk of Penn and him being just a polster

    then i remembered seeing this a couple weeks back:

    Posted: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 6:53 PM by Mark Murray
    Filed Under: 2008, Clinton

    From NBC’s Chuck Todd
    First Read has learned that the Clinton campaign has hired Democratic pollster Geoff Garin to do polling for the campaign. Garin and his firm has plenty of experience polling in the upcoming battlegrounds of Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Indiana.

    The question becomes, of course: How does this impact pollster and chief strategist Mark Penn? Some in the campaign have been arguing for months that the chief strategist shouldn’t be polling his own message ideas.

    Garin, one of the most respected Dem pollsters in the country, is someone who will have instant credibility inside the campaign and — more importantly — with worried anti-Penn donors.

  4. Youtube “Tale of Two Trinities” is priceless. 527’s need to get permission to play over and over and over on television. Also, superimposed pic of BO in front of 48-star U.S. flag, and HC superimposed in front of 50-star U.S. flag – shown over and over and over in TV ads. Penn needs to go. This needs to be dealt with swiftly now. It will give her instant credibility and raise her polls. Otherwise, her numbers will …you know.

  5. Tonight what I’ve been longing to hear finally did.

    Carl Bernstein (in the midst of his usual anti-Clinton bullshit commentary on CNN said the following in discussing what might happen should Hill not pull off the “upset” in NC which the media is already mischaracterizing as some kind of make-or-break contest) claiming he had spoken to someone inside the campaign;
    “Then they’ll go very negative. They have information (on Obama) they wish reporters would look at.”

  6. BTW, CNN had a new poll that showed Obama moving down and our girl moving up.

    Forget the numbers now, there’ve been so many these past few months.

    Nationally I think it became a 3-pt spread (9% undecideds), and Obama was down something like 9 pts since Rev. Wright burst upon the scene.

  7. skmf12,
    Nah. Bernstein was apparently one reporter who wouldn’t look at it – or isn’t talking yet if he did.

  8. Senator Barack Obama’s support among Democrats nationally has softened over the last month, particularly among men and upper-income voters, as voters have taken a slightly less positive view of him than they did after his burst of victories in February, according to the latest New York Times/CBS The survey suggests that Mr. Obama, Democrat of Illinois, may have been at something of a peak in February, propelled by a string of primary and caucus victories over Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, and that perceptions of him are settling down.

  9. If Bernstein knew something he would break it, he seems to be jealous that his career since Watergate never had the success that Woodward’s career has.

  10. OMG!! Have any of you heard about this?? Could this be a good thing for Hillary?? Could this be the reason the Obamamites
    Are frothing at the jowls to push her out now??
    There are superdelegates, and there are superduper delegates
    WASHINGTON (AP) – Some of those presidential superdelegates Democrats Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton are pursuing are more super than others. One delegate, one vote doesn’t apply to them. These prominent Democrats can name additional superdelegates, giving them control over multiple convention votes, and that could be the difference in a race that may not be decided until the August convention.


    Consider Art Torres, chairman of the California Democratic Party. He remains uncommitted, yet he could be the most powerful superdelegate of all. Torres gets to name five additional superdelegates, giving him control over six votes at the national convention this summer.
    “I am the super of supers!” Torres proclaims with a laugh.
    He and other state party chairmen will appoint most of the additional 76, known in Democratic ranks as “unpledged add-ons.”
    “They basically are gifts to the state party chairs,” Harold Ickes, a chief strategist for Clinton, said of the additional superdelegates.
    The 76 “add-ons” are doled out to each state based on population and Democratic voting strength. Every state but Florida and Michigan, which were penalized for holding early primaries, gets at least one. California’s five are the most.
    The extra delegates will be selected at state party conventions and committee meetings throughout the spring. In about half the states, including California, Georgia and Ohio, they must be chosen from lists compiled by the state party chairmen. If the chairmen list only one person for each slot, they effectively name the extra delegates.
    In other states the additional delegates can be nominated from the floor of the convention or by simply applying, turning mundane state party gatherings into spirited debates about the presidential candidates.
    Alabama’s extra delegate was decided by six votes on March 1, when Obama backer and labor leader Stewart Burkhalter was selected at a meeting of the state party’s executive committee. Burkhalter said he worked with the Obama campaign to get the nod.
    Aides to both campaigns say they are wading into local politics to try to make sure the new delegates are amenable to their candidate.
    Some state party chairmen will consult governors or senators when making their choice; others will simply pick like-minded delegates.
    That’s what Wyoming Democratic Chairman John Millin plans to do when he selects the state’s extra delegate in May. Millin, who has endorsed Obama, said he plans to choose another Obama supporter for the spot, though he hopes their votes are not decisive.
    In California, Torres has come up with a diplomatic way to select his five delegates. He said he plans to award them in proportion to the vote in California’s Democratic primary. Clinton received about 52 percent of the vote, so she gets three; Obama got 43 percent of the vote, so he gets two.
    Both campaigns lobbied Oklahoma Democratic Chairman Ivan Holmes before he picked the state’s extra delegate in February. It didn’t work.
    Holmes, who hasn’t endorsed Clinton or Obama, said he selected another undecided superdelegate, the state party’s chief fundraiser, Reggie Whitten.

    To read the entire article:

  11. From TalkLeft:

    “So, how many human beings have gone to the polls so far and cast votes for Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama?”

    HRC: 14,153,162
    BO : 14,285,535

    All state primaries including FL, MI, and WA

    Total Votes: 28,438,697

  12. If one could erase Obama’s phantom 400K+ votes in
    Daley’s Chicago, it would read something like this:

    HRC: 14,153,162
    BO : 13,885,000

  13. Although my post in the previous thread didn’t get any traction, I thought I’d reference it here since it was late in the last thread and maybe others in the early morning crew may be able to support or point out the stupidity of a potential Third Party run for Hillary if Dean continues to insist that both campaigns must be part of a solution to the FL/MI delegate issue.

    The more I think about it, the more I think it really makes sense. In a 3 party race, the threshold of votes is no longer 50%, especially if all three candidates have diehard support among the electoriate and soft support among the undecideds.

    For me FL/MI is a real deal breaker and I just don’t see any way that Obama can support any solution that results in him losing the edge. That’s just counterintuitive. Dean is talking about seating the delegations after the SuperDs have decided to back Obama once the primaries are determined, but it seems inconceivable that he could reach the threshold of 2216 votes required when FL/MI delegations are considered.

    In a 3 way general election, if Hillary can pull in 40% of the electoriate (and based on the primary season thus far) or even just win in the states she’s already shown strength in, then the electorial college map is strongly in her favor. I think that if DNC officials are faced with considering a possible loss to a third party Clinton candidacy (call it the Progressive Party and actively recruit current Democrats dissatified with the way that Pelosi and Co are running the Congress) then they might decide that their current stance of ignoring the will of Women and Hispanics as the two largest voting blocks in favor of AAs is a losing strategy. No need for riots, or chaos at the convention, because the convention becomes moot.

    The Democratic Party leadership has shown us that they do not represent the will of the Democratic voters. By choosing to allow Independents and Democrats for a Day to select our Party’s nominee they have “jumped the shark” in this election.

    While I stil believe that there is a path to victory for Hillary, it’s becoming increasingly obvious that there are people in the know who believe that the SuperDs will select Obama as the presumptive nominee who could then decide to seat FL/MI as a token to them without their votes or their numbers actually counting, because, well, if he’s the presumptive nominee because he reaches the 2025 threshold, but doesn’t reach the 2216 threshold that exists when you count FL/MI then he loses.

    Party leaders need to be afraid of the staunch Hillary supporters who will vote for her in the General Election. In a 3 way race, she only really needs to win 35-45% of the vote to win the White House. I don’t think that people support Hillary because she’s a Democrat, I think they support Hillary because she is the candidate of the people. Does anybody think that there are people who support her that wouldn’t if she wasn’t running as a Democrat?

    I’m confident that all of Bambi’s Democrats for a Day will be much more interested in supporting John McCain over Bambi, so who could he turn to offset all the independents who might actually prefer McCain over him in the head to head?

    It doesn’t sound crazy to me…am I just missing something? Dean has FUBAR’d this nomination, and I just haven’t seen any evidence from him that he thinks he’s got to make things right before the SDs annoint BO as the nominee.

  14. Mrs. Clinton’s proposal was intended to endear her to John Edwards, the former Democratic presidential candidate who ran as an antipoverty populist and whose endorsement Mrs. Clinton is seeking.

    Mr. Edwards, in a statement issued through a spokesman, praised Mrs. Clinton’s call. “America’s need to address the great moral issue of poverty demands strong action,” he said in a statement, “and a cabinet-level poverty position is exactly that kind of action.”

  15. The thing that hit me about this Rezko deal the other day is that Rezko is on trial for bribing state officials. That’s one of the things he been indicted for. Now, I always thought of it as bad judgement that Obama let a guy with that kind of background do a $625k favor for him. But the other day, I thought about that and i said, Hey! Wait a minute here!!!!! A guy who is on trial for bribing state officials, spent $625k of his own money in a deal that only beneftis Obama!!!! Was that a bribe?

    I hadn’t put together the bribes Rezko has done in the past with what is likely a bribe he engaged in with Obama. Weird how the dime drops on something obvious.

  16. NYCMAX,
    I’m reading and re-reading your post and considering what I always thought an unrealistic propostion, that of the 3rd party run.

    A Progressive/3rd Way Party? M-a-y-b-e not so crazy.
    For sure the huge benefit to Hill as far as running under the Democrat label – the automatic 95% of the AA vote – is sadly gone due to BO playing the race card.

    Speaking only for me, I’m for her because she’s a Clinton – and I betI’m not alone.

  17. Two possibilities:
    1) The Obama-Odinga thing–it’s really weird with Odinga’s agreement with the Islamic faction to impose Sharia Law (reported by Voice of America no less–I’ve posted it a couple of times. Nobody’s ever said anything so maybe you guys think it’s not very interesting but the whole dual citizenship feeds into the anti-American thing BO’s got going on….
    2) a republican staffer VERY highly placed told me they had serious ammo on Obama–He wouldn’t say anything except it dealt with personal misconduct–don’t know why exactly but my vibe is gay sex–maybe cause staffer himself is gay (I want to emphasize he did not say that and it’s a total and complete guess on my part). Of course his family stays in IL–so BO is here in DC all week by this lonesome–never a good thing for a textbook narcissist abandoned by his fathers–but the guy could also have been completely bs-ing me, too,

  18. basement, bluedem,

    many including myself, have been asking months now if hillary would please consider running as an independant, BUT, third pary… works for me………….

  19. NYCMAX,

    Oddly the biggest obstacle in your scenario might be Bill Clinton,
    who – despite all the charges of being a DLC Dem, – considers himself a really old-fashioned Democrat.

  20. has anybody noticed that most of the money the Obama’s gave to charity was to the tucc. What about Bill and Hillary? Does it show details?

  21. “Nobody’s ever said anything so maybe you guys think it’s not very interesting but the whole dual citizenship feeds into the anti-American thing BO’s got going on….”

    I do & see what you’re saying, but what about dual citizenship?
    Obama doesn’t have dual citizenship still/now, does he?

  22. OK. Back to Business.


    Because of the timing, we can’t take our existing bloggers off PA–so we REALLY need help (NC and IN have a LOT of papers!!
    Please help if you can (we need around 40 volunteers as a BASE)
    It’s fun & easy & a great way to get the message out to the voters about HRC.
    Please contact me: if you can help!

  23. Blue Democrat, I know what you mean about 3rd Party runs. I usually think of Nader and Perot who acted as spoilers that favored stong candidates, but I just don’t see where this election fits those models.

    The numbers of Democrats who are energized by this election is just too strong, and I think that alot of the primary voters were demoralized or activist Republicans who were attempting to strengthen their case by voting for Obama to stop Clinton.

    Those voters will be split between McCain and Obama in the General Election. Hillary’s support has been constant and steady from the day she announced. I know that was the case with me, and considering that her numbers haven’t budged from about 40% (except when she spiked upward here and there) I’m confident that Hillary voters are Hillary voters. We know what she is and we know that she is the best candidate of the three major players to get the job done.

    I wouldn’t normally propose a 3rd Party run, but after Bush, the stakes are way to high to have either Obama OR McCain in the White House and the math and electorial college map changes drastically with three viable candidates in the race. I really think it’s doable this time, or at least so close to doable that Dean and Brazille need to really be afraid that they will lose BIG TIME if they insist on pressing the issue to an illegitimate election.

    This has become really exciting for me to think about, because until I really considered the math of the GE, I was so completely depressed about what Leahy, Pelosi, Kennedy, Kerry and Dean were doing to the party.

    The big hurdle would be to convince Hillary that it is her duty to protect the interests of true blue Democrats, even if it means saving the party from the frauds who have tried to take away this election away from the true solid Democratic base who have voted overwhelminly in favor of Hillary.

  24. NYCMAX,
    Here’s something else to excite you I was just thinking about in considering what you’ve written.
    I am absolutely convinced the John McCain is a pathetic excuse for a nominee. In a general I’m almost certain he’ll be easier for either BO or Hill to beat than Bob Dole was in 1996. This is assuming he doesn’t totally self-destruct at some point, which I consider a real possibility (where I’d see a Jeb Bush coming in to “save” the day for repubs).

    With this in mind, I’d be willing to bet quite a bit that in a theoretical Hill-McCain matchup – combined with the economic distress many will be facing by November – Hillary would take a large chunk of McCain’s republican/ independent vote. I knowthe national polls don’t show that now, but Ithink it could be as muchas 5% off what repubs can normally rely on from their 44-45% of the electorate that they always get.
    I think she’d ultimately beat McCain rather handily, which is also something President Clinton said from the outset; that she’d have a tougher time in the primaries than in the general.

    As you said, “I’m confident that Hillary voters are Hillary voters”.
    That couldn’t be more obvious in light of the media thrashing she’s taken. So if you extrapolate what you’ve said about a “People’s Party” run with what she might swipe from McCain, you’d be looking at a theoretical 40-45% in a 3-way race, which is a freakin’ landslide.

    Am I nuts?

  25. Blue Dem wrote: Oddly the biggest obstacle in your scenario might be Bill Clinton,
    who – despite all the charges of being a DLC Dem, – considers himself a really old-fashioned Democrat.

    I agree, the key will be to convince both of them that this is not about Democrat or Republican, that it is about the people and doing the work of the people.

    In the big picture, it could really mean great things for the country by ending the gridlock of the two party system. The lines will become more clearly drawn and Progressives will be able to vote as a block or caucus with one or the other of the parties to see to it that the Progressive Agenda (and Fiscal responsibiitly) carries the day.

    This is big stuff we’re talking about and with enough Congresspeople on board, the New Progressive Party could determine who controls Congress at any given point unless the other two factions decided to themselves caucus as a coallition (highly unlikely).

    Wow! This late night fancy is really heady stuff and only the Clintons could pull off such a thing, now this is not something that I’d like to see threatended…the more I think about it, the more I really actually want to see it happen.

  26. Wow, the posts tonight are developing what I mentioned last night: What if all of Hillary’s supporters wrote in her name in the GE and she won?

    A 3rd party – now that’s a better thought.

  27. I don’t think obama would beat McCain. He’s already peaked. And, there is something there. The Rezco business for sure. But, I think there is more. But Rezco alone could bring him down. This man is a political fixer and he helped Obama buy his house. My husband said that’s a kick back without batting an eye.

  28. “the math and electorial college map changes drastically with three viable candidates in the race.”

    This would be the real question. I do not know…

    I wonder how much thought – if any- the campaign has given to this?
    Have they polled it?

    Is there some obvious reason to dismiss it I’m not aware of?

  29. I would LOVE to see, as a Brit paper put it, “Mrs. Clinton flounce out to run Independent.”

    However first the Clintons are too loyal and ethical to do it. And getting on the ballot in all states is a big job in itself, third party or Independent. Lieberman only had to do it in one state.

  30. Hillary will win the nomination or we will lose in November. I am dismayed that the two OK superdupers are undeclared. She won that state outright.

  31. spega Says:
    April 5th, 2008 at 1:04 am

    OK. Back to Business.


    Send me the IN and NC lists again and I’ll post them at h t t p : / /

  32. “the key will be to convince both of them that this is not about Democrat or Republican, that it is about the people and doing the work of the people.”

    If we’re talking about what I suggested, that BC considers himself an old-fashioned Democrat, I don’t think that alone would stop it from happening, and here’s why.
    He became a new Dem for a reason, because he’s a pragmatist and knew modern democrats couldn’t win the new arguments in the old ways.
    Thus, the 3rd way. It’s not liberal or conservative – it’s both.

    This is HIS philosophy, and he believed in it enough to govern that way (not to mention IT WORKED!), which is in part why the Clintons have some of the problems with Democrats that we’re now seeing.

    So if I had to guess, I’d say any nostaglia for simple party affiliation wouldn’t be enough to stop it, though there may well be something(s) I’m not considering.

  33. She’s going to be the Democratic nominee or Dem’s will lose in November.

    Blue Dem, where did you see that Edwards quote?

  34. Electorial College wise, just off the top of my head speculating I think that Clinton wins in NY, FL, MI, OH, NM, Arkansas, PA, NJ(?), MA(?), TX(?), CA(?), NH, RI

    MA going against Teddy/Kerry bodes well for her
    McCain would take Republicans in TX and BO would take AAs…Hillary would take Latinos and some Dem Whites, possibly some Moderate Women
    Same in CA

    McCain would still take a huge chunk of Red States but probably not the ones with strong AA presence like GA, SC, AL, MS, LA because he might split the white vote with Hillary…but that would take states away from him but even if BHO wins those states it won’t be enough to offset Hillary’s wins in the Big State Dem strongholds

    I think that Mark Penn leaving the campaign at this point should they decide to look into such a strategy would be a bad idea, finding out this kind of stuff is exactly what he’s good at and could result in him finally earning his paycheck

  35. I think the only thing that a Hillary run as a third party/independent candidate would do is hand the election to McCain. Now in my opinion this is preferable to bambi winning, so I’m not totally against it. But if she were to run, McCain could have a shot at winning all 50 states. There’s simply not enough democratic/swing voters to give either her or bambi the win, because both would take large percentages of that vote.

    Even if McCain were a really poor candidate and got only about 40% of the vote, that only leaves 60% for Hillary and bambi. In order to beat McCain she would need almost 70% of that remaining 60%. Unless some really damaging stuff comes out on bambi (even more damaging than the current wright and rezko issues), I don’t think that’s gonna happen.

  36. The one strong argument against a 3rd Party run, is it fits into the meme that Hillary will do anything to win, but with the obvious gaming of the system by Dean and Co. especially the disenfrancisment of FL/MI I really think that the message could be pushed that “the Clinton’s will do anything to ensure that the voices and interests of ALL Americans, especially lower and middle class Americans, are heard.”

  37. mj,
    The NY Times.

    Do you think there’s any validity to what I suggested about Hill tapping pretty significantly into McCain’s expected R/Indy vote?
    Because that cushion would be key, I’d think.
    CA a question mark, eh? Yeah, a big one, maybe the whole election would come down to it. But I’d think at first blush that McCain wouldn’t get it and that our Dem primary results might be a harbinger.
    Heavy Latino vote, etc.

    Gotta hit the showers, look forward to seeing your thoughts.

  38. hi all… been outta the loop.. (flu) for a week… can i get the cliffs notes on where we are???

  39. yes, and emil jones appointed obama to the state senate pensions and investments committee at the time when blagojevich threatened to consolidate the pension funds, which would have derailed the scheme rezko and levine devised. and obama only sat on this committee for three months. perhaps obama should discuss why he was appointed to that committee. and what is emil jones’s role in rezko’s scheme?

  40. divabunny,

    i just contracted a germ. and the election has finally arrived to nc. this is terrible timing.

  41. diva,

    We’ve decided; we’re making an indy run 🙂
    Someone should tell Hillary.

    I’m not sure I agree/disagree on this.

    “Even if McCain were a really poor candidate and got only about 40% of the vote, that only leaves 60% for Hillary and bambi. In order to beat McCain she would need almost 70% of that remaining 60%.”

    As we’re speculating, I think Hillary’s 40% is very very solid, and I think McCain has likely the softest support of the three.
    I’d be surprised if he topped around 37% in a 3-way, but that still leaves on 63%, meaning Hill would have to beat BO roughly 38%-25%.
    But this would become an electoral fight; damned if I can begin calculating that. Anybody? Max?

  42. Levon wrote: I think the only thing that a Hillary run as a third party/independent candidate would do is hand the election to McCain.

    Normally, this is true, except that the far Right HATE McCain as much as they hate Hillary, possibly even more. It’s true that he’ll run strong in Red States, but I think that Hillary would pull votes from him in the deep south and allow Obama to break through there, whereas Obama would pull votes from him as the anti-Hillary in places like Arizona and CA, just not enough to offset the huge Latino population and moderate women who want to support a viable female candidate.

    It really does come down to the electorial map. Without the South, McCain can’t win against the strong Democratic strongholds, and with only the South and a few small states like IA, OR, VT and ME, Obama can’t win against the big states that favor Clinton.

    The thing about this particular three candidates is that each have to over come deepseeded and strong resentments and as long as one or the other of the other two candidates is closer to their inclinations, then the winning map changes.

    I’m not sure if there are really many voters who are willing to make a choice based on party affilation in this election, which is what has historically made third party runs spoiler runs. This election is different in so many ways.

  43. Wait a minute, wait a minute.

    Are we talking about an eventual 3-way electoral split that would go to the House and be decided by Nancy Pelosi?

    cause that’s not good.

  44. Max,
    We’re in some ways talking about 3 geographical demographics;

    The rich vote, the black vote, and working people (combined with older women). Right or wrong?

  45. We don’t need to run third Party. She’s going to be the nom. If she isn’t, the Dem’s lose in November. Look at the polling. he’s already peaked.

  46. @PULCH:??? huh?

    abt the indy thing?? FUCK THAT PEOPLE!!! why the F would the clintons let bambi run them outta the party that THEY brought back into respect after carter???? NOT GONNA HAPPEN! we have to win this!

  47. diva,
    Why? Because that party is now controlled by the Brazilles and Deans and Pelosis and Harry Reids, that’s why.

    I’m not 100% sold on this – don’t know enough about it – but if it’s an easier path that fighting in this kangeroo court, hey, all I care about is Hill sitting in that office and making the decisions this country needs.

  48. pulchritude Says:

    April 5th, 2008 at 1:45 am
    yes, and emil jones appointed obama to the state senate pensions and investments committee at the time when blagojevich threatened to consolidate the pension funds, which would have derailed the scheme rezko and levine devised. and obama only sat on this committee for three months. perhaps obama should discuss why he was appointed to that committee. and what is emil jones’s role in rezko’s scheme?

    And, when did he buy the house?

  49. Allright, my Ambien is taking effect time for me to get to bed. Thanks for the speculation fun…I vote for admin to let Hillary know that she’s got leverage with a potentially viable 3rd Party run to force Dean to do the right thing now with FL and MI before it’s too late. An illegitimate nomination (one that excludes the proper influence of the FL/MI delegations) makes her case for representing true Democrats even if it’s in the name of a Progressive Party and if she can pull some Congresspeople fed up with the gridlock of Ms. Impeachment is Off the Table…wow…that’s some real History in the making!

  50. divabunny, Dean has effectively stacked the deck including some of the committees who will be responsible for deciding the FL/MI situation. At this point, it is very likely that everyone has backed off because they think that they have secured the nomination based on “the math.”

    I don’t think it’s possible that Obama will have secured 2216 delegates (pledged+supers) by the time June 3 comes along, but I think that they are planning on unleashing enough SDs after June 3 to ensure that he is the presumptive nominee with 2025 (the magic number without FL/MI) to insist that Hillary gets out of the race so that when Obama is magnanimous and seats the Delegations, their votes won’t matter.

    That’s not the Democratic Party that I know and love, and it is not one that I want to be a part of. I’m hoping that Hillary will become our champion and protect us from these shenanigans. I’m sorry, but when Howard Dean insists that any solution to the FL/MI question must be agreed to by both camapaigns, I just don’t see any way that the Obama camp can do anything but stonewall their delegations, because if their delegations are seated, he can’t win the nomination. So Dean is trying to be tricky by pretending to be “fair” when, in essence, he’s making the decision by not making the “fair” (and I’d argue, the originally intended) decision to seat the delegations with full priviledges.

  51. bluedem: love you, but are FING KIDDING ME???? why the F would they let these NOBODYS run THEM out of THEIR party??? they could away and just the F fine no matter who wins in november…. if the clintons are not the demm party then it is NOT THE DEM PARTY! we both know that!!!!!

    they would never run a third party bc even if they did win on that… look at history… our faounding father set this up., constitution and ALL as a two party government… a thrid party will NEVER have power… otherwise we’d have all been “green” or “libertaian” a LOOOOONG time ago!

  52. HOLY HELL???? i am a TYPO queen! sorry.. outta the loop and too passionate on the subj to check myself!

  53. Oh I can’t wait until the 527’s get a hold of this stuff. and lies.. I think it will be Hillarious when they hand Obama his own a**

    It just amazes how many people fall for his BS. Lies like hell about darn near everything (Rezko, Wright, Racism, NAFTA, etc.)and will only come clean when you corner him and hes arrested for accepting a house loan from a schemer rezko..yipppee..hes got the secret service next to funny as hell when hes called to court to testify . Then he will do his best to change the subject and ramble to drift into some bullshi**the masses of his cults will fall back into there own self,and cry…

    Wake up people!! You don’t want Obama as POTUS.

  54. @nyc: the clintons ARE the DEM party!!!! the f’ers are imposters and all true DEMS know that!!! i will not let them run me out of my own F”ING party! and neither will hill or bill!

  55. CJ, these supers are really delusional. I’ve come to think it’s delusion. He can’t win. They need to snap back into reality.

  56. yep mj its there delusional mind…he wont win
    with BIG Fat liar and i do think ther eis more with rezko and wright…lotts more that we dont know about…

  57. SEE……..Would somebody please smoke out the Dem SuperDelegates….such as Detroit’s own kwame kilpatrick and his mommy…..SEE Also……..people are back lashing in MI..they want hillarys votes and delgates to be seated..

  58. My question is, “Who Is Funding this Man?” That is the scary part of the whole scenario. Thinking about it sends shivers up my spine. Remember Adolph? I do.Mc GWest Lafayette, INDiana..reading indy blogs..

  59. here is what is going to happen:
    McCain is going to fall and break his hip, and will be forced to withdraw. Then he’ll get imprisoned for his FEC violations.
    Obama and Hillary will battle it out but Clinton will win because Obama is a racist bigot. During this time, Chelsea Clinton will run for public office, getting ready for after Jeb Bush’s 1 or 2 terms as president. Then Chelsea will run for president and win. After that, the next Bush will be all lined up. So on, and so forth…

    i read this and laughed..

  60. @cj: i’m w/you buddy abt the funding… at the end of the day we all know its oprah money funding the 527s… as far as the grassroots contributions… i dk? college kids getting credit cards…maxing them out and then having them paid for by someone else or not even paying for them at all??? the other fact is that bambi accepts paypal and hillary doesnt. if she would make paypal an option i KNOW she would get sooooo much more money!

  61. I don’t find it incredibly suprising that Obama penned a book such as that one. Afterall his ‘shepherd’ for the last 20 years was Rev. Wright. He’ll pass off any judgment on this book with the ‘Black people can’t be racist’ line that turns my stomach everytime I hear it. Just one more reason to be very afraid of a B. Hussein Obama presidency. Be afraid everyone, be very afraid. I find myself hoping more and more everyday that Texas will seced and I can move West to be near a little more common sense.

    from texas blog i read there is lotts all over the country people onto him… they wont vote for him they will prevent him and hillary will win..

  62. i was wondering about Opofrah..and maybe Out of country people too..
    has anyone told her or talk to hill about it
    she needs paypal..hooked up its easy to do
    and sign up..

  63. friend of mind is islam and he told me this..he works with me.seen the stuff on tv about wright.good worker and funny as heck,, and very respectfull.. but he never mentions his religion and hes not voting obama either….he never register to vote and he doesnt plan on it..

    The preaching coming from Wright’s pulpit is the same preaching that comes from Mosques around the world. It is this message that has made American black men and women easy recruiting for Islam.

  64. Diva,
    I’m still pondering all this, and again my concern first and foremost is having Hillary in that chair making the decisions that are so critical to how we all live, and how future generations will live.

    “bluedem: love you, but are FING KIDDING ME???? why the F would they let these NOBODYS run THEM out of THEIR party???”

    Ok, ask yourself, what kind of party is it when the bulk of the party lines up againstyou to circumvent the rules and prevent your election as the nominee? When your foremost representation on the airwaves is a Randi Rhodes who calls you a f*cking whore?
    Or when you have people you’ve given careers to like Bill Richardson who do what they’ve done? Chris Dodd? John Kerry, whom Clinton got up from his sick bed to help?
    I can run this string out a long time but you see what I mean.

    I’ve always considered the Clintons far bigger than and apart from the Democratic party. Remember, it was, from the beginning, Democrats who – at times – gave the Clintons almost as much trouble as the republicans, which is saying something.
    The Clintons have always been outsiders, despite how they’ve been portrayed.

    But most importantly perhaps is their 3rd way brand of politics, which never fit seemlessly with Dems or Repubs precisely because it’s between both of them – which just happens to be where the overwhelming majority of the American people are ideologically.

    And perhaps, just perhaps, something like would be the most fitting thing of all. That the true Clinton legacy comes in the form of cementing that 3rd way into the american consciousness by forming that new majority in the middle.
    For now, I’m just saying it’s worth a look. But FOR SURE if it’s an easier path to the White House then it’s the one to take.

    That said, one thing I did think of that’s not so encouraging but must be considered is (if you can imagine it) probably being even further marginalized by the media as the 3rd part candidate.

    I wanna look at some numbers before I say more, but you’ve got to agree the Dem party right now is a DISGRACE not worth being a part of.

    And the Clintons might have to leave it to save not just the Democratic party but to save the country.

    Keep foremost in mind that this country absolutely cannot stand a John McCain presidency, essentially a Bush 3rd term.
    Obama instills scant more confidence.

    For now, every option must be explored is how I’d look at it.

  65. i a kinda of agree with blue and dot its a kangroo
    party..dean is a idiot pelosi too..
    im reading blogs this is coulters 3000 commnets these people are sending the message to penn and the rest of the states we need there help/
    so a third party and hillary a true democrat with these people she will winn..coulter is out in full force to vet him..

    This is going to surprise some and be ignored by others. The man is a racist and the 20 years he’s spent listening to and admiring Rev. Wright should surprise no one. He’ll never make it as a President and, now that this is out, won’t get the nomination either. Hillary thanks you, Ann…

    Stop Obama… vote HILLARY! You may not like her, but you know much about her already. We have been finding things out about Obama in dibs and drabs, and he is actually a scarey character. John McCain is respectfully a war veteran, but he has shown himself to be not the brightest bulb in the box. Hillary is a known entity, who unless she turns into a flaming liberal, she won’t be able to do much harm while in office. I am hoping that she will actually be a success, especially if she is kept in line by Congress.

    I wish I had known this before the primary. Can I take my vote back? I mean…REALLY…can I TAKE IT BACK? DAMN!!

    Oprah Winfrey’s new age religion (see Oprah’s website)is like a cry in the wilderness preparing a highway for her god Obama.
    Barack Obama has to destroy Christianity before his social order can rule over America and then the World. Could it be that he is the antichrist

    some of friends of family that live in illnois voted for him they regret and want there vote erased from this Obama.

  66. Here, btw, in case anyone’s forgotten the nerve of these motherfuckers;

    “Senator Obama firmly believes that the Michigan delegation should be seated in Denver. A 50/50 split of the delegates is an eminently fair solution, especially since originally Senator Clinton herself said the Michigan primary wouldn’t ‘count for anything.’ It’s now up to the Clinton campaign: they can agree to a fair resolution or they can continue trying to score political points and change the rules. It’s time to move forward. Senator Clinton should accept an equitable solution that allows Michigan to participate fully in the convention.”

  67. here is a coupke more..
    Ann, sent this to everyone on my e-mail list. Not a single one of them should vote for O’Bama without reading that book. Told them all to just read it in the store. Go by everyday until through it and notes are taken with page number.

    they are sending to all there families email to all the rest of the states they wanna stop him before its to late.

    Ann….love the way you write….I can just hear you saying the words.
    With over 300 million people in this country why are we are down to a major nut case like Obama as a Presidential Candidate? The dude hates America and white people and could be our next President? This country is upside down!!
    Thanks for all you do….

  68. I am amazed that the national press and Clintons have not taken his book and served up on a silver platter, then again, we are talking about the national press. The country is being sold out by national press and unfortunately , there are people with the iq of a rock that believe in what the man says. Judge a person by his friends and his words. That usually paints a true picture of what is really inside

    cj ays this one got me here he has no friends where are they

  69. Here’s a question you will NEVER hear asked:

    “Umm… Senator Obama …how is it you feel entitled to half the Michigan

    delegates when you didn’t get a single vote in the state?”

  70. Obama has the making of a jihadist. I can’t believe people are falling for his “yes massar” demeanor. I’d love to see a black President one day: Colin Powell. Or at least a President that can salute the flag, sing the National Anthem or not refer to babies as “punishment”.Billary ’08, BaltimoreA

    hillary has got some people who are gonna rip him a new one..

    shes gonna win!!!!

  71. though not always a fan Ann, this time I am grateful for the info. I am not ready for John McCain and think for a lot of reasons the Clintons are the best suited for the job. Can’t beleive they missed this stuff or that the Rev Wright material took so long to be found out. I am sure Hillary would be in the lead if this story broke earlier. Most of America thought this guy was above race. Please take your message far and wide. thank you

  72. It bothers me that in this wordy response the campaign never pointed out *why* Obama took his name off the MI ballot, which is because he knew he would LOSE, and he didn’t want to look bad.

    In other words, he was playing “old” politics.

    “When it comes to counting votes, the Obama campaign seems content to only count the ones that it got. Senator Obama voluntarily removed his name from the Michigan ballot and wants a backroom deal that ignores the nearly 600,000 Americans who voted in Michigan. Instead of distorting Senator Clinton’s words, the Obama campaign ought to honor the votes in Michigan and Florida, respect the bedrock principles of our democracy and stop giving the Republicans an issue to use against Democrats in the fall.”

  73. Ok, apparently I’m the only one bothered about this at 3:45 am.

    It’s lonely from where I sit 🙂

  74. Blue,

    If you’re talking about Obama’s book DREAMS, there’s a GOP blogger typing up and posting some facts pulled out of the verbiage: Steve Sailer. He says nobody is quoting the book but him because it’s unreadable.

  75. Nah, I’m bugged by the MI back-n-forth.

    cause they haven’t pointed it out once and it’s kinda important.

  76. Good Morning Everyone,

    I’m feeling a little discouraged today. I have been trying to contact the HRC HQs in DC to ask them a couple questions. One involves a potential donation. I can’t get anybody to return my emails or phone calls.

    Does anybody have a contact at HQs who is someone that will actually communicate with me?

    This is very demoralizing for me and now it is hard for me to be motivated to do my work for the campaign as I feel I’m being treated kind of crappy.

    If they have this kind of crappy workers in the HQs then it’s no wonder we have had all the problems we have had. Remember even DB said that Hillary’s people are not serving her well.

  77. TCB,

    I think most of the staff is gone on weekends and there’s only a skeleton crew left, if that.

    I know it stinks, especially if you’re trying to get some work done, but it’s not personal – I think they just don’t have enough people in board.

    i saw a pic of one of the offices and it was very bare-bones with just a couple of workers. Plus others have commented about how hard it is to contact the staff on Saturdays and Sundays. If you notice, they often don’t even update the website on those days. Hang in there.

  78. Hey, is there a way to post an image? I used Adobe Illustrator to make a nice American flag with the 26th & 27th stars (for Michigan and Florida respectively) x’ed out. It’s one of those “picture worth a thousand words” images that might be useful somewhere. I’d upload it but I don’t know how. I could email it to someone though.

  79. tcbequality, the reality is that no matter how we try to spin it, our campaign just doesn’t have the funds to respond as well as Obama’s campaign. I know you want personal attention and assurances right now and you even want to do your part, the thing is that what you are saying is actually not helping.

    If making a donation is your primary goal, then going to Hillary’s website and using the tools there to donate is the fastest and easiest way to accomplish that. If getting personal attention from the campaign is your goal, then, sadly, I don’t think the campaign has the resources to accomplish that at this point.

    They are putting on a brave face, I think, but the reality is that no matter how well Hillary does at fundraising, Obama is doing better.

  80. NYCMax, not neccessarily, his online support has withered since Feb, particuarly since the Wright matter broke out.

  81. justmeinmountdorafl Says:

    April 5th, 2008 at 10:40 am
    does anyone know if Obama was in Memphis or did any honory thing for MLK, Jr?

    Not on Memphis. He was campaigning somewhere. Maybe PA. Dont know.

  82. oops! I just reread my post and it reads like I’m a part of the campaign, this is absolutely not the case, I just so identify with Hillary that I feel a part of her team. When I say “our campaign” I mean “the people’s campaign” (so all you Obamabots trying to spy out campaign people on this site, can just stop hyperventilating).

  83. The reasons why there are not many people at HQ today is…

    1) It is the weekend.
    2) The campaign has *wisely* utilized all their staff in areas and places where they need them. HQ ain’t one of ’em. Right now PA, NC, and other places are the priority.

    This has nothing to do with funds or support available. This is simply the campaign putting their forces where they are needed.

    My suggestion, if you need to contact the campaign, do it through the website.

  84. MJ, I wonder if this will be a slap in his face, particularly since she had a speech about the poverty czar (doesnt this ring a bell anyone, hint: former NC senator)

  85. With Hillary talking about a poverty position, watch Obama try to copy and insist he was the first to suggest this

  86. Folks, I tried to contact them during the week, not this weekend. I have already talked to someone in PA. I signed up to travel there and they had someone call me within a couple of days. The person was very nice and we had a great conversation.

    I initially contact the DC HQs on Tuesday. I was told they have a staff of 700 in that office so I’m having hard time believing that the folks there are organized. They should be responding to volunteers and potential donors much quicker than that. As far as I’m concerned the DC staff are not helping Hillary win this election if this is par for the course.

  87. NYCMax – It has nothing to do with “getting personal attention.” I have already donated $600+. The donor is not me. It is someone that wants to donate to my HillRaiser account and they are not sure if they can and I’m trying to find out if it is ok for them to do this. Secondly the other thing I contacted them about was doing a GuestBlog on their site about a fund raiser we did here in Calif. The reason for the Blog would be to give others ideas on how to help. I can’t very well do the Guest Blog without their permission and help. Please don’t insult me like I’m just some kind of attention seeking fool. I am a dedicated supporter of Hillary’s who is also a human being with feelings. And my feelings right now are ones of being demoralized. It’s a natural reaction given the situation.

  88. I was told by my lawyer that you can make a donation for someone else. Be sure to have a paper that says you are going to be paid back and that you are doing this because the other party doesn’t have cc to donate with. You are simply using your card, they are paying you back and as long as they pay you back .. it’s okay.

  89. Hillary need PAYPAL .. I’ve asked several people who have direct contact with the campaign .. I don’t know why they are not going after every avenue.

    Also, I understand at Obamas site you can just donate .. nothing to fill out.

  90. The average people in this county require representation and they will never find it in the elitist Bambi Kennedy Illionis Combine tiveca.

    The Clintons are the Democratic Party. But if the game is so stacked against them that they are destined to lose then they must find a way to change the game.

    Let us hope there is some credible information on Bambi which will cause people to come to their senses. The third party option is intriguing in theory but the devil is in the detail, and time is short to lay all the necessary groundwork-least that is my sense of it.

    I am off now to the Washington State Legislative Caucus.

  91. dot48 – That is another thing I wanted to tell them if I am ever able to speak to someone in DC and that is to use Paypal. I don’t see how the Obama site can not require info as I think it is the law to track donations and donor information.

  92. Blue Dem, you know what really bothers me about that quote?

    “Senator Obama firmly believes that the Michigan delegation should be seated in Denver. A 50/50 split of the delegates is an eminently fair solution, especially since originally Senator Clinton herself said the Michigan primary wouldn’t ‘count for anything.’ It’s now up to the Clinton campaign: they can agree to a fair resolution or they can continue trying to score political points and change the rules. It’s time to move forward. Senator Clinton should accept an equitable solution that allows Michigan to participate fully in the convention.”

    It’s the idea that a 50/50 split which “allows Michigan to participate fully” is somehow an equitable solution! I mean, WTF IS THAT?!

    Look, we’re not talking about a trip to Disney World, where the Michigan delegates just want to be able to go along for the ride with all the other kiddies. They want to have their votes counted in a way that REFLECTS THEIR ACTUAL PREFERENCES. They want their actual VOTES to COUNT, (kind of like Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and all the other states that broke the rules and held early primaries). Just splitting their votes 50/50 is like saying “okay, you can come to the convention, but only if you behave! So, sit there quietly and don’t make any noise. Children should be seen and not heard.”

    It’s insulting in the extreme.

  93. h t t p : / /

    A cool funny new site. Satirical — but way on our side, they love Hillary for the right reasons, and see through the nonsense.

    They had a great term for what a lot of people have seen: a woman who’s been doing the job, gets passed over for a young flashy unqualified man. They call it ‘lack of job title’ because she — in Hillary’s case — was the wife, not the POTUS.

  94. Good Morning. Why are certain people in the media, and not all anti-Hillary, saying there’s an equal # of BO voters who won’t support HRC? From the polling I’ve seen its always been Hill’s voters who would vote for McCain or sit out the election if she wasn’t the nominee. I’m not saying there aren’t Obama supporters who wouldn’t do the same, but they’re a smaller percentage. Am I wrong?

  95. Saw this from a poster @ Taylor Marsh:

    Morning peeps!

    Did anyone catch Sen. Claire McCaskill on CNN this morning? A political corresondent for the KC Star reports that McCaskill was on this morning and said that Obama will lose PA by double-digits.

    I wonder if this is another with friends like McCaskill, who needs enemies moment for Claire, or if she realizes now that BO is not inevitable, and needs to mend a fence or two with Missouri women voters who are furious with her.

    SwingStateDem | 04.05.2008 – 11:31 am | #

  96. nikki22: I hope so.

    What also sucks about the MI and FL delegates, not being seated until the convention, is that Hillary also loses her SDs from those states.

  97. just updated contact info for uncommitted SDs to include MD….who wants it? These people are listening. We need to show what a strong base of support HRC has.

  98. I haven’t checked it out yet, but a commenter on TM said there was a diary on MYDD explaining how Hillary would have control of the Credentials Committee.

  99. I would love to see SNL do a skit of Obama’s church with bambi sitiing in the front row nodding his head in agreement with Wright’s rants…..


    A must see Clinton interview with Roland Martin on CNN yesterday in Memphis.

  101. bcc: I’m not, completely sure about anything at this point in time. I thought, I had read that somewhere, but I hope that I’m wrong about it. Aren’t some SDs part of a state’s delegation? If they are not seated, until the convention, then their support may not factor into the total delegate support. I hope this is wrong.

  102. Hi Everyone!

    Ann you can email that list and I will post it again and MJ can download it from the site at… (check out the new look…I’m still working furiously on it, but it is getting there!)

  103. @hill,
    are you sure that there aren’t any “prying eyes?” I really, really don’t want BO supporters to benefit from this work.

  104. phone bank to PA

    phone bank to PA

    phone bank to PA

    phone bank to PA




  105. HillBilly can you give me the NC Superdelegates or do I have to get them from your site? I don’t think I am a part of the closed area yet?

  106. Here is some information on what NOW is doing in PA. I am a member of NOW and will join them for some of their events and parties.

    Make History with Hillary –
    Our time – and HER time – is NOW
    “I’m Ready for Hillary” Party
    Join us for the fun!

    Women’s rights activists know how important victory in Pennsylvania
    is to
    Hillary Clinton’s campaign for the Presidency and to our lives and
    Kim Gandy, President of National NOW PAC, and other national and state
    leaders are coming to Pennsylvania to meet with NOW members and
    voters to tell personal and moving stories about working with Hillary
    Clinton on women’s rights issues and underscore our first-hand
    knowledge of
    her commitment to women and families and a better – more equal –

    The National NOW PAC has endorsed Hillary Clinton because she can
    on DAY ONE and she is the strongest candidate to win in November – to
    our shattered economy – to resolve the housing and mortgage crisis
    – to
    develop a health care program that covers ALL Americans – to stand
    firm as
    a strong civil rights and women’s rights leader – to promote
    policies that
    help us juggle work and family – and she will work to bring our troops
    from Iraq from day one.

    Join us for the discussion and the party
    Invite friends who love Hillary AND those who are undecided!

    Thursday, April 17
    7:30 – 9 pm
    284 E. McCormick Ave, State College, PA 16801
    Hosted by Jane Sheeder, 814-238-2869, Justine Andronici,,
    814-364-9391, Joanne Tosti-Vasey (candidate for PA State Assembly,
    House Dist) 814-280-8571, cell: 814-883-8363
    refreshments served

    DOWNINGTON (West Philadelphia)
    6:30 pm to 8:30 pm
    275 Spring Run Lane, Downingtown PA 19335
    Hosted by Larry and Linda Davis and their daughter
    Melody Drnach, Vice President Action, NOW,

    Friday, April 18

    Saturday, April 19

    11 am – 1 pm
    4231 Kota Ave, Harrisburg, PA 17110
    Hosted by Brenda L. Lawrence
    888-793-2512×5351 or 717-231-5351

    Possible Philadelphia event

    3-5 pm
    307 Perry Ave, Lancaster PA 17603
    Hosted by Lancaster NOW members and community leaders
    Contact: Marcia Pappas, Cell: 518-469-2661

    6:30 – 8:30 pm
    1511 Hickory Run Court, Elizabethtown PA 17022
    Hosted by Lois K. Herr, 717-371-5721 cell

    CRAWFORD (Pittsburgh suburb)
    Hosted by:
    Featured guest: Beth Hafer, NOW PAC endorsed candidate for district
    U.S. House
    Contact: Phyllis Wetherby,

    Sunday, April 20

    2:00 – 4:30 p.m.
    320 Comstock Dr, N. Huntingdon, PA 15642
    Hosted by Deanna DellaVedova and Marj Signer, VA NOW President
    Refreshments served

    Possible evening event in Pittsburgh

    “NOW con Hillary”
    1 – 4 pm
    Cobre Restaurant
    812 N Broad St,Philadelphia, PA 19130
    Hosted by Olga Vives, NOW Exec VP,, 202-641-1904
    Carlos del Toro, 703-407-4436

    Possible evening event in Philadelphia and

    Victory Party!!!on the 22nd.

    NOW Women for Hillary in Pennsylvania

    Kim Gandy, President, National NOW
    Olga Vives, Executive Vice President, National NOW, DC
    Melody Drnach, Action Vice President, National NOW, DC
    Marcia Pappas, President, New York State NOW, National NOW Board Member
    Marion Wagner, NOW Great Lakes Regional Director, National NOW Board
    Marj Signer, President, Virginia NOW
    Stephanie Ortoleva, President, 51st state NOW, National Board Member
    Pat Reuss, Senior Policy Analyst, National NOW

    Original Message:

  107. A reminder about the demonstration:

    Attn: All media organizations
    Re: Hillary Supporters Demonstration

    When: April 11th at 8:00am

    Where: Rockefeller plaza, NYC

    Why: We are all very passionate Hillary Clinton supporters that demand
    be heard for Hillary! We refuse to stand by and watch this election
    corrupt and unfair!!
    “It Takes A Village…” and we are Hillary’s Village!

    We have three main reasons for this demonstration:

    1. We want the country to know we are fed up with the biased/sexist
    coverage against our candidate Hillary Clinton!

    2. We demand that the DNC allow Florida and Michigan votes to be

    3. We demand the media STOP saying Hillary should quit the race.
    Attn: All media organizations
    Re: Hillary Supporters Demonstration

  108. When you write to your SDs or others, make sure you say that FL and MI have to be resolved BEFORE the nominee is picked. This is not just about seating delegate eventually but counting their votes to determine the nominee.

  109. Guys,
    Let’s say we get the second worst case scenario & MI,FL are seated after the nominee is chosen. Wouldn’t Hillary still have the upperhand with the supers? Everybody will know that (assuming she wins these remaining contests w/ the right margins) including MI and FL gives HRC the popular vote lead, if not the pledged delegate lead.

  110. New FOX NC poll shows BO with 23 pt lead, but this is a number that’ll make SD’s take notice;

    “Perhaps the only disturbing news for Obama in the survey is that most Clinton voters (56%) say they are not likely to vote for the Illinois Senator in the general election against John McCain.”

    That # is up 9pts since last one.

  111. Please help send letters to the editors to newspapers in the upcoming primary states in support of Hillary Clinton. You can also join Hillary Rapid Responders (see link below) and they will send you emails with the LTE weekly goals and suggestions on how to write effective letters.

    Here are the newspapers that we will outreach to this week:

    Billings Gazette (MT)
    By e-mail:
    250 words
    name, home address, and day and evening phone numbers

    The Montana Standard (MT)
    By email: Roberta.Stauffer@Lee.Net
    Address, day and evening phone numbers

    The Missoulian (MT)
    By e-mail:
    300 words
    name, address and telephone number

    The Register Guard (OR)
    By email:
    250 words
    name, address and phone number

    The Herald-Sun (NC)
    By email:
    250 words

    Fort Wayne Journal Gazette (IN)
    By email:
    200 words
    name, address and phone number

    Let’s get our voices heard and read by these newspapers’ readers.

  112. nikki22 Says:
    April 5th, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    nikki, the SD votes do choose the nominee; all the delegates vote together, supers mixed in with pledged.

    Of course we can talk abouat the FL/MI numbers to influence the SD’s, even if their delegates aren’t officially seated/counted.

  113. Nothing is happening yet. We’re still signing in. Its a bit chaotic. I was just told this goes from 10-4.

  114. tcbequalityactions,

    could you contact me thru admin?

    we have something we would like to have NOW included in.
    need to send some info out, can we talk?

  115. Special Announcement to the Voters of Michigan

    By Barack Obama, Howard Dean et al

    Today, at the request of many thousands, we agreed your votes will be counted at the convention in Denver. We hope this relieves the worries some have expressed. Not only are we going to count all 600,000 votes, we are going to change the votes of 300,000 of you. As of now that number of you will have voted for Barack Obama. We feel certain this meets with your approval. It’s the only fair thing to do.


  116. Blue Dem, that Fox poll is actually the Rassmussen one, so take it with a pinch of salt, the 56% of voters for McCain though is probably spot on.

  117. There are more women in the democratic party than men. If women would just stand by her like she stands by us, we would be unstoppable.

    It is a shame that so many young women don’t understand that because they think it is “cool” to vote for Obambi.

  118. Well, I’d like to see her work NC real hard.

    If you saw what I posted from Carl Bernstein last night, projecting down the road that she takes PA but not by enough to satisfy the media (not that anything would, but I’m figuring a 7-11 pt win), I’m figuring things to get very hot & heavy around then.

    So I don’t give a shit what the polls say – though obviously a smaller mountain is easier to climb – I want to see Obama hobbled, crippled, and beaten down in NC.

  119. Terry McAuliffe is coming to my convention today. I assume he’s stopping by some of the other conventions as well.

  120. skmf12 – Sure but how do I do that?

    I’m about to head out the door to go hiking but leave me the info as to how to contact admin and I will do that. I’ll check back later today.

    Glad to know I’m working in tandem with others. That’s been one of the greatest parts of this adventure.


  121. why the heck do I come here and see people asking Hillary to go third party and having discussions of her chances as a third party candidate?

    Hillary will be the nominee. I believe that as these polls continue to show Obama’s support weakening, the superdelegates will wake up and select the strongest nominee…not merely the one pelosi, dean, and kennedy are promoting.

  122. One thing I will hand to the Obama campaign though–> I have friends who are in UNC Chapel Hill (undecided) that told me they’ve been getting calls and there have been on-campus canvassing done to register youth voters in full force.

  123. With large AA population and Student population, it will something hard for Hillary to overcome, but I think she can do it if she goes about it right.

  124. MJS,
    “why the heck do I come here and see people asking Hillary to go third party and having discussions of her chances as a third party candidate?”

    Because it COULD be a more logical path to the White House in light of the DNC/Media madness, and we can’t lose the forest for the trees.
    The ultimate goal is to get Hillary into that Oval Office.

    I said at the outset last night I always thought of 3rd party runs
    – the Naders & Perots – almost as a joke. But this might not be so crazy.
    Might not.

    Looking at some CA numbers from 1996 now. BC beat Dole by 13 points, 1.3 million votes. Dole took just 38%. I’d be surprised if McCain could match that in a 1-on1 race, he might not break 30% in a 3-way.
    Until someone shows me definitive reason not to consider it, I will.
    Hill’s support, as we said yesterday, is pretty much rock-solid @ 40%.
    That’s a good place to start.

  125. Oh Jeeeeeez.
    She doesn’t need this! What an A$$! 👿
    From Reuters;
    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – An angry Colombia said on Saturday it ended a contract with a lobbying firm headed by a top campaign aide to Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton after he apologized for meeting with Colombian officials to advocate a trade deal that she opposes.

    Mark Penn, who in addition to working as Clinton’s chief campaign strategist is a lobbyist in his capacity as chief executive officer of Burson-Marsteller Worldwide, said his meeting with Ambassador Carolina Barco Isakson “was an error in judgment that will not be repeated.”

    “The Colombian government considers this a lack of respect to Colombians, and finds this response unacceptable,” the Colombian Embassy in Washington said in a statement.

  126. I’d take this “indy” thing one step further for now and leave it.

    (With 95% of the vote) in CA, Hill was beating Obama by around 500,000 votes. Would those same people do so again in the general?
    We know Dems still hold a huge lead over repubs in generic matchups, something like 15-20%.
    Hill wouldn’t be running as the Dem, she’d be running as the Clinton.
    But she’d have to continue to get a portion of that vote, I’d think.
    In light of the unprecedented media bashing she’s taken with those numbers holding firm (if not moving up) it MIGHT be a good bet.

    Taking NY & CA would be a good start. I’d be worried about media marginalization as “the 3rd party” candidate, but…..

  127. BLUE DEM,


    if hillary runs as third party, after getting the shaft, all her people will run to her, and i suspect, a large following of others, who have been begging for a third party, will come out in sudden glee.

    OH ALL EXCEPT OB’S PEOPLE … hehehe 🙂



    many, many, many people have been saying the same thing, so she shouldnt fear to SHAKE IT UP…

  129. 2000 CA results;

    Gore – 5.8m+
    Bush – 4.5M+


    Kerry – 6.7M
    Bush – 5.5M

    Not sure what I’m doing 🙂 Just looking around at some of these numbers.

    That’s a pretty consistent 1.2-1.3m Dem over Republican result.

  130. tcbquality,

    i’ve sent you an email thru ADMIN….

    just ask admin to give me your email, or to send me message…

  131. Okay, this bites. This started at 10 its now noon and we haven’t done anything delegate wise.

    Most of us have been here since 9am.

  132. Ok, here’s where I am with very primitive calculations on CA.

    About 10M people voted in 2000, 12M in 2004.
    Without turnout being so high this year, expect say 14M to vote in 2008.

    Hillary already received 2.3M votes from Californians in the primary.
    Is it unrealistic to think (most or all) would do so again in a general?
    I don’t think so.

    So roughly, it’ take around 4.5M votes to force a 3-way tie in CA.
    Could she then get another 2.2M votes from the 11-12M voters?

    IS IT A BETTER BET than dealing with the madness that has enveloped the media & the Democratic party? I don’t know.

    By all means, should anyone see something seriously wrong with these basic presumptions please advise.

  133. Forgot to add, I would think b-a-s-i-c-a-l-l-y what held true for CA would carry over in NY, NJ, maybe in Penn & OH, etc.
    Might still get Arkansas.

    Of course, FLA & MI have shown favorable signs too 🙂

    Enjoy your day.

  134. I found a great song the Hillary campaign can use to enthuse YOUNG female voters 😀
    “winning women” by Rihanna and Nicole Scherzinger.

    The lyrics are”

    Gotta Win It, No Limit, Strong Women we are (repeat 4 times)

    Where them girls at. (Girls at).
    That like to be in charge.
    When the heat get too hot, they just keep turnin’ it up.
    Never let ‘em see see, that you sweat, gotta go hard.
    Where those winning women thats really willin to take it off!
    Where them girls at. (Girls at).
    That like to be in charge.
    When the heat gets too hot, just keep turnin’ it up.
    Never let ‘em see see, that you sweat, gotta go hard.
    Where those winning women thats really willin to take it off!

    When you see both of us on catwalk representing our culture.
    Uh-uh-uh-uh huh.
    Well the time and day has changed, where the women wear the pants without changing the last name.
    Uh-uh-uh-uh huh.
    Where the word diva, diva, mean viva, viva, we run las vegas.
    Uh-uh-uh-uh huh.
    And then the stock exchange, bang, Than we got claim to the change.


    It has an amazing beat and chorus and is VERY catchy 😀 Hillary should get Rihanna and Nicole (two pretty big names in pop culture right now) to campaign with her by performing at some rallies with Chelsea in the colleges 😀

  135. i highly doubt hillary running third party will do much of anything but get mcCain into the whitehouse. While firm Hillary suppoters will stick with her, soft Hillary supporters will most likely stay with the Democratic party.

    That’s why I believe Hillary and OUR first priority should be to WIN the dem nomination. NO MORE third party talk. Let’s just WIN IT and SHUT EVERYBODY UP.

  136. I think the 3rd party idea is a loser. She is going to take the nomination. So we don’t have to think about it anyway.

  137. Also. Hillary will never. NEVER leave the democratic party. she is true blue, all the way. No question!!

  138. Hey, MJS,

    Where do you get your nerve to write something like this?

    “NO MORE third party talk.”

    I don’t give a shit if you like the idea or not. I don’t necessarily like it!
    But it is, at least until PROVEN otherwise far, an idea worth considering.

    And I’m taking my time and effort to do so – not for me – as I already know this info once I find it & don’t need to spend the energy to post it.

    It’s comments like that that infuriate me about this MFing fucking place.

    If you don’t like it, scan past my posts, because that’s what I’ll be doing, trying to make Hill44 one way or another.

  139. exactly linfar. I have entertained the idea before, but it’s silly. Hillary is within reach of the finishline as is Barack obama. I am still confident that in the end, hillary will come out on top as the nominee and my reasoning is far stronger than that of the bambi-bots.

  140. Blue Democrat, I’m only saying this because that kind of talk is like “failure-talk” to me. You are assuming hillary won’t get the nomination and are looking for other avenues for her to travel down.

    I’m saying Hillary will be the nominee and for now, that should be the focus of this site. Making Hillary the nominee. When the General Election officially starts, then we should be talking about any third party stuff, but for now, the talk should be centered around winning Pennsylvannia, indiana, North Carolina, Oregon, etc by large margins.

  141. i can’t believe people are letting the words of Leahy and Brazille about Hillary giving up the primaries to go to their head, which is essentially what you’re doing when you are focusing on Hillary as a third party candidate. You are letting their mind-games and wordplay as well as the presses’ barrage of these antics swindle and lead you to believe Hillary needs another avenue.

    No she does not! Florida will certainly be seated. It just depends on how. Michicigan is being battled out right now. Meanwhile, Pennsylvannia should deliver anywhere from 10-20% more of its vote to hillary, Indiana should be solidly hers, as are Puerto Rico, West Virginia, Kentucky while all the remaining states like North Carolina and the likes should split about even.

    Hillary and her aides are making arguments right now to superdelegates and she is definitely winning some of them over.

    Hillary hasn’t even THOUGHT of running in a third party. To even THINK of her doing so will just be like telling her give up her dreams of being the nominee of a party she has risked her entire life, respect, and public face for. The democratic nomination should and will be hers.

  142. MJS,
    So a possible path to the White House which could be EASIER than the one she currently faces is “a failure” to you?

    Think about that.

    The goal is THE WHITE HOUSE, not the democratic nod.

    And I’m looking for other avenues (yes) because the current one she’s traveling is filled with a bunch of treacherous fucking scumbags who not only have the desire to rig this election against her, but a certain (if unspecific) power to make it happen.

    Can you honestly not see this?

  143. and btw, MJS, I’m not assuming Hillary “won’t get” the nomination.

    I think she’s earned it already, when it’s tallied fairly, and assuming she takes what we expect n the upcoming contests.
    But if she does and they don’t “award” it to her, then what?

    You want me to then just put my faith in a bunch of SD’s,
    after all the democratic treachery we’ve seen thus far?

    FUCK THAT!!!!!!!!!

  144. Personally, I don’t think third party or independent is very practical, for 2008 anyway. However, it’s always healthy for the DNC to know what people like us are dreaming of.

    It’s not just the Clintons, who are near retirement age. It’s why has the DNC nominated losers for the last 60 years (except Clinton and Carter)? We’re seeing how difficult it is for a winner to get the nomination.

    If the latte-cliques-that-be do nominate Obama against the will of Democrats (which favors Hillary) — then a lot of us practical centrist types are going to be all dressed up and nowhere to go between now and Nov, so we might as well spend the autumn laying some groundwork for future decades.

  145. You can win a run as an independent. you need a Party aparatus. Hillary will be the nominee, or the Democrat’s will lose.

  146. i see what you mean Blue democrat, but why should Hillary be forced out of a party by some snotty dirt like Dean, Kerry, and Brazille? They should be the ones going third party. Not Hillary, and certainly not us. This democratic fight is more of a fight between the two factions of the democratic party: the people who stand for the promises, ideologies, and hopes, or the people that stand for the people, the working class, the impoverished.

    For now, the fight is about Hillary not only winning the white house, but telling the party that represents 50% of Americans that theirs should NOT simply be a party of ideology and optimistic dreams, but a party that works to help the working and needy people.

    Hillary will win the nomination. You can continue to talk about third party routes, but remember that more than the eyes of Hillary supporters watch this board. We must stay strong throughout the process because Hillary WILL win the dem nomination with us cheering her on. Not with us thinking about other avenues to travel. That will just show desperation, which is certainly not the tone of MY mind. I am calm, collected, and fully aware of the troubles in our Democratic party. When Hillary is the nominee and president, she will rid the party of such scumbags as Pelosi, brazille, and the Obama-hacks.

  147. The best payback for the party of neanderthals and good ole boyz is to stiff them. We know what we’ve endured the last eight years and we’re still here, making it. I personally would rather endure another 4 or 8 year of republican rule than let the Howard Deans and Nancy Pelosi rule the day. I will not vote for a nominee who is represented by all of the VOTERS in the 50 states. Just not my thing. It’s not out Hillary or Obama it’s about the direction the party wants to go and I’m just not going to be part of it. I’ll never support the party in anything if things are no righted.

    Count the votes in Michigan and Florida .. as the voted. Finish out the primaries and we go from there. Any due influence by Dean and Pelosi and Donkey Face Kerry onto the superdelegate is unwarranted .. they should butt out NOW.

    Pelosi and Kerry need to go WORK in Washinton .. what we pay them to do. Dean needs to get a spine and show some leadership and work this out

  148. the best message we can send is UNITY behind Hillary. not UNITY behind a hijacked party and STOLEN election. We been THERE, done that.

  149. And Blue Democrat, you are judging democrats by the “treacerous fucking scumbags” but how many of those are there? dean? Pelosi? Brazille, kerry, kennedy, Casey, McCaskill, and Sebelius…but that’s about it. The democratic party also has people like Al Gore, Joe Biden, Congresswoman Tubbs, Maxine Waters, etc who understand that the first priority of a politician is to help the people and to represent their voices in the government. Judging an entire party by vocal scumbags does not support your argument well, and while there are certainly villains in this party, there are also TRUE American heroes like Hillary and Bill Clinton.

    Where do you go calling the party where Franklin Delano Roosevelt rose to help millions of impoverished people a party of “treacherous scumbags”? Watch your words. The problem with these primaries is not the democratic party, but the crooked leadership that has taken over. When Hillary is the nominee, she can help right the wrongs and steer this party in the right path just as Bill Clinton did in ’92-2000

  150. MJS,

    I think you’re the one thinking defensively.
    Again, I wasn’t nuts about this idea but wanted to rationally explore.
    But to my mind, if it ever happened, it wouldn’t show desperation (nor does discussing it!) it’d show STRENGTH!

    One of the things I thought of is in a 3-way race, the Clinton brand
    is CLEARLY the strongest of the 3. That means something.

    Her votes thus far I think are the strongest and most durable of the 3.
    And my thought process says country before party.

    This country is in serious, serious trouble. it is neither my fault nor the Clinton’s fault that the Democrats (and the media!) are behaving as they are. Other people have responsibilities here too.

    Sure, in a perfect world I’d luv to see her get the nomination, cut & dried. But this world is far from perfect.

  151. MJS,
    You know damn well I am PLAINLY referring to the Deans, Brazzille, etc who are in charge and making detrimental to Hillary.

    DON’T YOU DARE look to bend my words because you’re losing an argument.

    And if Biden & Al Gore are so fucking noble,
    where are their endorsements?

    Where are they blasting the media for their ludicrously slanted coverage?

    Huh? On 2nd thought, STFU. You’ve disgusted me.

  152. 90 yrs old and a decorate 4yr vVet.of wwII,Worked for every cent I earned,Never accepted any unemployment or other social benefits.Self employed for most of my life and now live on my monthly SS check but I have donated ten dollars every month for the last six months to Hillary.I have more anger in my life than I can express,with the MSM,GOP,DNC,The Pgh Newspapers,and the mindless young cult members of the OBAMA drive to steal our democratic electoral system.I get nothing but negatism and lies on any media hour after hour,abouy Hillary and Bill.All these fat cats and their bankrollers have prospered and made their money in the Clinton administration.I am ashamed of the the way they treat our our best friends and true patriots,Bill and Hillary Clinton.To Think that this country could blindly rush an unknown,inexperienced,wardheeling,Chicago pol into the toughest and most demandig job in the world,is beyond comprehension.His character witnesses are REZKO,WRIGHT,KERRY,KENNEDY,McCASKILL,LEAHY,DASCHLE,DODD,.The Cradle to Grave losers afraid of the sound of the glass ceiling shattering when Our Hillary is Inaugurated.WE ARE DEEP TROUBLE AMERICA and you are allowing this tragedy to go one in a time of war,a deep depression occuring and the rest of the world is laughing.I am angry,disappointed,and ashamed of this tragic time in our history,REMEMBER ” AS you sow,so shall you reap ”


  153. Hillary will be the nominee. Barack Obama can not win.

    Just asking again, does anyone know a good anime artist who supports Hillary?

  154. I’m not being defensive. I’m simply keeping my eyes on the current target instead of looking forward to a not so positive future or veering off the current path.

    Neither one of either Hillary or barack have 100% strong support. most of the support for either candidate is soft support that can easily change depending on who the nominee of the democratic party is. And while Hillary’s name is strongest, it is also a name that many people do not find favorable. The votes you are looking at in the primaries range anywhere from 10% to 40% of the actual General Election voting populace. When those voters vote, it could be a very different picture than what you are seeing now if Hillary goes third party.

    This country is in serious trouble, which is why our main objective should be to win the primary. Let’s stay on target and in the unlikely case that Hillary is ousted out of the nomination, we will THEN discuss whether she should go third party. Not now. And not until the convention time.

  155. MJS,


    F*CK YOU …

    you dont speak for me….
    you and i have had it out before…

    i happen to agree with blue dem…
    IF push comes to shove, HILLARY should just swallow her pride, bite the bullet, take the hard path, AND RUN 3RD PARTY…



  156. nice language there blue democrat. Very smooth to use when having a debate.

    Anyhow, I’m not getting angry. I’m just trying to reason with you. My initial post wasn’t directed to anyone in particular, but meant to quiet the calls for Hillary to go third party.

    You seemed to take it personally, and I’m sorry if it offended you. The fact of the matter is that our main objective at the moment is for Hillary to be the nominee of this party.

    Unlike you, I believe that in the end, the remaining voters and superdelegates will make the wise, and intelligent choice for Hillary and we wouldn’t have to resort to third party runs.

  157. MJS,
    You really think you have the right to tell others when they can discuss this, when they can discuss that.
    I’d prefer you stick to the facts of why a “Progressive Party” run is a bad idea. Teach me – and us – something as you obviously know quite a bit.

    But you’re nuts to talk like that. With audacity like that, I’m not so sure I’m not arguing with Barack Obama! WTF?

    And trying to twist what I said about Democrats was a very low blow,
    and I resent it very very much.

  158. I’m talking like strawbery marshmellow girls anime. Anyone know someone who supports Hill and can design like that?

  159. We just got to the part where the representatives from the campaigns speak. The Obama supporters were incredibly ride – booing, hissing and jeering the Clinton rep. The Obama rep tried to get them to calm down but they got worse and started chanting over the Clinton rep.

  160. yes skfm i did tell him to watch his words, just as I have been told before to watch my words because this is a site that reflects the mindset of Hillary’s supporters who shouldn’t be arguing their case using such profane words against one another.

    I’m trying to reason with him to keep his eyes on the ball and the main goal.

    he’s trying to debate by cussing me out.

  161. MJS is right when he/she states that: “The fact of the matter is that our main objective at the moment is for Hillary to be the nominee of this party.”

    It would be bad decision to run now as an independent. Obama would clearly then take over the dem’s. hmmm…..

  162. hey all, please try to agressively phone bank into PA and sign up to call into North Carolina and Indiana

    Our energies can be used towards that.

    Frustrations can be spent in talking with other Hillary supporters who know her plight and know that she must have good turn outs. It’s all about gotv. They are there they just need to be as motivated as we are here.

    Also, ask for contributions. $5.00 starts off well. Direct them to her website and to read her speechs and her positions and to look at the dates that they go back to.

    Hillary has been talking the issues since she started campaigning ..

  163. Blue Dem, this is what you said:

    “And I’m looking for other avenues (yes) because the current one she’s traveling is filled with a bunch of treacherous fucking scumbags who not only have the desire to rig this election against her, but a certain (if unspecific) power to make it happen.”

    How is this twisting your words?

  164. the “current one she’s traveling” is the democratic party’s primary. And no, this road is not “filled with a bunch of treacherous fucking scumbags” because most democrats and democratic leaders cannot be represented by the likes of Pelosi, Dean, Leahy, and Kerry. They may be the most vocal, but they certainly do not represent everybody.

    ^^ this was my point which you seemed to take such unwarranted offense to.

  165. MJS,

    That’s lame, to say all I’m doing is cursing you – and you know it.
    As I said, persuade us why a “People’s Party” run is a bad idea.

    But in this sentence, you just posted,
    “I’m trying to reason with him to keep his eyes on the ball and the main goal.” you again show we’re you’re wrong.

    The main goal is the power of the pen, the power of the bully pulpit, the power of the presidency. The main goal is 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

    Everything else is secondary.

    Now how do you defend yourself against that, sir/madame?

  166. BULLSHIT…

    its a discussion mjs, looking for options, plan b or c…

    not preaching heresy or trying to over throw the government…
    this is no secret planning meeting, we plan on hillary winning.

    IF they screw us with all their NASTY TREACHEROUS TRICKS….


  167. I would have made a video, but I left my camera at home. I got pissed at the Obama supporters behind me and yelled WE DIDN’T BOO YOUR GUY.


    Really? I haven’t seen any.

  169. MJS,
    How is that twisting my words? Are you serious?

    Did I say Franklin Delano Roosevelt was “on that road” and was one of the treacherous ones?

    It was PLAIN AS DAY I meant the Richardsons, the Deans, the Brazilles.

    Again, you’re losing an argument and trying to slander me.

    As you might say, “Watch your words”.

  170. BLUEDEM,

    HILLARY IS NO LOSER, she better fight to the death for us and america.

    thats what i wanna see.
    a candidate that will fight…

  171. skmf12,
    Unfortunately, there seem to be quite a few on forum lately who think they’re ‘running the show.’ That’s why a lot of regulars have stopped posting.
    Thanks for taking a stand against this more subtle ‘mind control.’ The techniques may be toned down but the strategy sure seems to be the same as those used in BO’s campaign.

    I’m with you. Despite the trolls and spies here we shouldn’t be hesitant to express our opinions and perspectives. and F*** anyone who tries to ‘stifle’ us. 😈

  172. I apologize if anyone gets offended but I can’t help but post what one blogger wrote at the…I laughed so hard it made my sides hurt

    “Obama is our Savior. Voters in Texas, Ohio, and Rhode Island have shown their arrogance by not supporting Obama. He is already the winner, there is no need for further so called “elections”. States like Wisconsin and Missouri made Michelle proud and then Texas and Ohio brought shame on all of us, how can we redeem ourselves in Michelle’s eyes? Must we continue to oppress, as she was oppressed at Princeton and Harvard?”
    Posted by Obamamania | March 6, 2008 9:56 AM

  173. My cell phone doesn’t take video. I wish it did the Obama speech was filled with lies and slams on Hillary.

  174. Please .. the main goal now is PA and NC and IN. Big wins there will change the WHOLE landscape. We Can Do This If We Commit. It’s gotta be a group effort. This will end soon but we have to do all we can NOW.

    Call DNC
    Mail Superdelegates .. go to HillBilly site
    Contact Undecideds
    Contact your local officials personally if they are not committed

    Phone bank
    Blog on HRC blog .. the heavier traffic there the better…

    Ask other people to help her .. explain that she’s being robbed .. it helps

  175. Blue Dem’s comments:

    “It’s comments like that that infuriate me about this MFing fucking place.”
    “she’s traveling is filled with a bunch of treacherous fucking scumbags”
    “You want me to then just put my faith in a bunch of SD’s,
    after all the democratic treachery we’ve seen thus far?
    FUCK THAT!!!!!!!!!”
    “On 2nd thought, STFU. You’ve disgusted me.”


    My first post wasn’t directed at you, but posters here in general. You took offense to it and called me out with angry language, followed with words that I don’t think are appropriate when you are trying to reason with someone about why your ideas are correct or not.

    Winning the primary is indeed the current goal. The reason hillary entered the Presidential Democratic primary instead of simply waiting it out and entering Third Party was because her FIRST GOAL was to become the nominee. Following which, her next goal would be to win the presidency. People don’t enter primaries to win the presidency. People enter primaries to WIN the nomination and THEN go into the General Election. As far as I can tell, we are still in the middle of a heated primary and nothing you say or believe can change the main objective of the primaries, which is to decide a nominee.

  176. linfar,

    When you get a chance could you email me that stuff over at hillbill’s?

    Sorry I didn’t look into yesterday but I was distracted by avian emergencies.

    Also wanted to let you know i’m sorry if that caused you any problems. It certainly wasn’t my intention. 🙁

  177. basil9 Says:

    April 5th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
    Unfortunately, there seem to be quite a few on forum lately who think they’re ‘running the show.’ That’s why a lot of regulars have stopped posting.
    Thanks for taking a stand against this more subtle ‘mind control.’ The techniques may be toned down but the strategy sure seems to be the same as those used in BO’s campaign.

    I’m with you. Despite the trolls and spies here we shouldn’t be hesitant to express our opinions and perspectives. and F*** anyone who tries to ’stifle’ us.


    The infighting is distracting and hurtful. Gosh if you were all like me I wouldn’t be able to tolerate you guys. Glad you are not and I can respect (although not always agree with) each of you.

  178. WELL DEDFG,


    before alot of the originals left this site because of ‘STRANGE’ traffic, we actually called for it…

    and whats more, many are in touch, and are spread all over…


  179. and the reason I told you to watch your words is that using profane language is not very ideal, is it? Why can’t you reason with me without using the f-bomb in every other post?

  180. tiny-welcome t o what we went thru in tx last week. doesntsound like a conv at all. thye are rbeaking eveyr ruleand we are left holdingthe bag. make andducoument what ucan. make sure u email with what happened. this isbeing replicated at every conv.ibet someone there hasthison tape-ust like thebooing that happened to shiela last week. we need to tell supers of these tactics.

  181. this is no infighting. I certainly do not see this as a fight. While Blue Democrat and Skfm can try to make this a fight all they want, I am simply expressing my belief that we should be worrying about the primary and the nomination now. What makes me able to control your every post? I can’t. So why take offense to it? If I tell you to shut up, does that mean you must? If you tell me to STFU, does that mean I’m going to listen to you?

    nope. nada. never, and ain’t hapenning.

    The fact is: You’re getting hyped up and roaring for a fight over my opinion which in no way impedes upon your opinion or thought. I voiced my disagreement to your calls for Hillary to tread a different path, stated my reasons why, and said that I believe we shouldn’t talk about it anymore. Whether you listen to this or not is not obligatory and certainly not under my control.

    So why take personal offense?

  182. WELL DEB,


    and actually that had alot to do with MANY people leaving as well…
    but than again, when you realize we are all on the same side, you try and not let it get to you…

    its different ideas, different opinions, but ONE COMMON GOAL…

  183. Each speaker had 2 minutes. The Hillary speaker talked about experience, universal healthcare etc.

    I don’t think delegates have changed at all but then again I don’t think anyone here has any clue what’s going on.

  184. but than again, when you realize we are all on the same side, you try and not let it get to you…

    I’m not the one yelling.

  185. MJS,
    That’s a bunch of words that sound like something and mean nothing.

    Unprecedented media coverage which raises one candidate to a diety while demonizing (and marginalizing) the other at every conceivable opportunity – combined with deceitful decisions like those made in the run-up and continuing to this day.

    Yes, Hillary entered the primaries to win the nomination, no kidding!
    She thought it’d be a fair fight!

    And now, even though she’ll win (at least in my estimation on the most important criteria) anyway, they’re fixing things NOT to give it to her.

    And you think we shouldn’t look for alternatives?

    This is no longer a serious discussion but rather you trying to angle off embarrassment from your own words.

  186. bcc


    but problem is obamabots will be scratching their heads, like duh what does that mean? 😆

  187. lol deb..How with one that says obama is OUR BIG Liar!!
    here is one i read this morning

    HEY AMERICA! Please tell me, with all of this thruth about Obama why is Hillary fighting so hard to win. I am a black, businessman from Chicago. I’ve been a Republican all of my voting life (36 years). I know Obama and the truth about him, his wife and their social structure. As a former Naval Officer (“USNA ’75), I should be supporting McCain. I support Hillary. I’ve written an Essay called “How Much Do You Really Know About Obama?” It tells the truth about Obama. I’ve been isolated by my own family and friends for circulating the truth about Obama. I can blame George Bush (whom I supported) for this. His actions in office have lowered the bar on the White House to the point that the ill-informed Americans will buy anything – including Obama! This is a sad day for all of us!!! God Bless America!

  188. Actually Blue Dem, I’m not embarrassed personally in anyway. I’m certainly embarrassed for you and your rambling accusations, but not for myself.

    Hillary entered this campaign thinking she’d win the nomination. I’m sure both you and I can agree that she under-estimated Senator Obama and the lavishing media coverage he has gotten since day 1. While Hillary herself may not have sought it, her campaign certainly did try playing the inevitable card which worked against her.

    Now the fight is down to the 10 remaining primaries and the decisions on FL and MI. When all is said and done, i know Hillary will be the nominee.

    I don’t understand why you are so adamant about Hillary joining some other party when the CLintons have faced anger and envy from many within the democratic party for more than a decade. Hillary is soldiering on, why shouldn’t her supporters?

  189. @ debbie,

    I thought of that, but I didn’t think I could fit “Michigan” & “Florida” on the universal NO sign.

    I’m hoping maybe someone will have a pocketful of state quarters and make the connection: Michigan = 26th state, Florida = 27th state.

    After all, they just LOVE touting how “highly edumacated” they are…


  190. seriously, aren’t we all campaign weary, aren’t we all fed up with the negative press, aren’t we all disgusted at the BHO lies, aren’t we all tired of fighting.

    I am!!!!

    But……….Hillary is my hero… I keep on keeping on!

    and screw all of you ..hahahaha!! 😆

  191. skmf, exactly. I posted a comment not directed at anyone, and Blue Dem decided to take offense to it. How does what I post affect what you think? the truth: it doesn’t.

    This whole rage he’s been spewing online is due to my calm disagreement with his point of view.


    get your head out of your ass…


  193. Bluedem,
    there’s an awful lot of world-class word twisting going on here, almost as good as the master work twister’s himself.

    I’ve had my posts deliberately misquoted when i said things some people didn’t agree with. i could have gotten into a debate about how I in no way said what was alleged and cited proof from my remarks but i considered that a huge waste of time and energy.

    People DO know what’s going on and we CAn read between the lines. but i for one admire anyone who calls people out when the agenda is so obvious. Post away.

  194. and I personally LOVE how basil9 acts like normal blog contributors and fellow hillary supporters are inhibiting others from posting as much.

  195. MJS,
    Now you’ve gone & proven just how dishonest you’ve been, by writing this:

    “I don’t understand why you are so adamant about Hillary joining some other party”

    ANYONE can now look through this thread and see me say on nearly every single post on this topic that it should be “discussed”, “pondered”, “examined”, “looked into”, that I wasn’t crazy about the idea, that I wasn’t 100% on it. I never said she “should” do it.

    That you sought to portray it as otherwise should tell anyone trying to follow this all they need to know.

    I also notice you’re yet to defend where you said several times now that these primaries and winning the nomination are the goal – when they plainly are not. I’m done with this.

    Thanks for turning what could have been an enlightening conversations on the viability of an independent run – which still might lead to the White House – into an exercise in futility.

  196. Dot,
    i agree. This weekend has been a little frustrating for some and it’s hard for me to get my bearings about what to do next. The info is flying fast and furious and it can get overwhelming.
    I just committed to writing letters to newspapers in upcoming primaries. I’ve already done all the PA media. I have a couple of other projects in mind, too.
    EVERYONE, Here is a link to a GREAT article that fdrjim posted giving an account of the run-up to the Florida?Michigan disaster. It’s called th”Untold Story of hos the GOP rigged the Florida and Michigan Primaries.” (with, of course, the assistance of our beloved leaders.)

  197. People who think they’re being singled -out often feel there’s a grain of truth in whatever was said that elicits a sense of discomfort.

  198. i agree with deb we keep on keepin on..just like the poster who said Obaami will be our saviour its like saying will have a Obama holiday with Obama parkway,obama high school..lmao

    His lies are danger zone for Americans!!
    knew from the start that something was wrong. He never got past “yes, we can”. But what worries me is just about this whole country didn’t care what came after that. It is a sad state that everyone wanted to hear ANYBODY tell them that they could!! Do you think this was the way Hitler got started? WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS BEFORE THE WHOLE COUNTRY GOES DOWN!

  199. DEFDOG,

    DURING THE WHOLE IDAHO, NEW HAMPSHIRE FIASCO, not just here, but on other sites, we were wondering about the viability of hillary going independent and many said start a third party…

    ofcourse it was too early, and the cry was not loud enough at that time…

    were you on taylors during that time? or no quarter?
    or tennesse gorilla or other?

    than you will remember that it is true…
    AND some have sent ‘LETTERS OF CONCERN’ to the campaign to ask just that…
    BUT, hillary, has always said she would support the democratic candidate…
    BUT maybe she will change her point of view…
    just maybe, she wants to know what her constituents think…
    maybe she cant ask us…
    who knows…

  200. The speaker didn’t mention the primary. He was very good and effective.

    We’re waiting on the delegate counts now but I don’t think anyone switched sides. The Obama supporters here cheered the Rev Wright mention. The lady behind me was yelling SHE’S A LIAR

  201. Thanks Basil and SKMF,

    You guys notice how he/she/it throws in those little digs?

    “Hillary is soldiering on, why shouldn’t her supporters?”

    As if we’re not?!

    You’re making yourself into a joke here, MJS.

    Forgive us if – with the country on the line – we want a little more piece of mind than what you keep seeing I your crystal ball & repeating.

    “When all is said and done, i know Hillary will be the nominee”

    Totally fucking lame.

  202. Every time you feel mad, angry, frustrated .. try to do something positive for HER.

    Please folks, this infighting is going to get posted all over the Obamabot blogs…they will say its desperation time.

    For Hillary and the campaign sake .. be constructive.


  203. OH AND DEDFG,

    i know you dont care, but i thought i’d share anyway,

    now i know i dont like you….

  204. would you guys PLEASE give the rest of us a break…go take a walk and get some air.

    I’m here as part of the support for Hillary and you guys (you know who you are) are making it very depressing

    I come here to learn as much as I can in order to support her. NOT listen to your bickering and in the face stuff.

    If your toes got stepped on suck it up. Look what Hillary has to deal with everyday. Never seen anyone that has been bitch slapped as many times as she has and still get up, be positive and smile.

    Lets get on with the business of making Hillary our next president.

  205. Yes shut up arguing or get off the site.

    You are not doing anything to HELP.

    Get to work. Do something positive.

    This is what Donna Brazil wants to see .. her supporters dividing and at each other throats.

  206. hmm. anyways I still:

    -don’t think a third party run by Hillary would be a good idea. period.
    -dont’t think this is what we, as supporters, should be worrying about for the moment.
    -think we are all letting the words of some stupid Obama supporters get to us.
    -think some people here need a break from politics to enjoy life a little, and chillax.
    -know that hillary will win the nomination and the presidency
    -don’t really take many of the opinions or comments on this forum with more than a grain of salt.

    I certainly think about what is said and written here, but it doesn’t occupy my mind or drive me mad by any means. I have an opinion, which I firmly believe is correct. in any case, politics is not my top priority, though it is important to me.

    For now, I’m going to head to the gym, catch up on my AP Literature homework, study for an exam on Tuesday, go to the movies, and when I come back at night, hopefully everyone will be calm and focused on helping Hillary win the primaries.

  207. the only joke I know of Blue Democrat, are your arguments and delusions, but they certainly aren’t funny jokes. More like the sad kind.

  208. Alright.

    I come here to see where I should focus my time and my energy to get Hillary that nomination. I can wade through posts about cats, birds, etc. It’s a nice breath of fresh air, sometimes…and reminds me that all of us are human beings on the other side of this pink blog. The pissing contests need to stop..or do us all a favor and highlight them with ======)—————————————————————
    So we can scroll right through them at a fast pace.
    That said, we have about two weeks until PA primary, I’m getting stoked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  209. ok anyways. Time to hush. I know. Going to go out for a drive, spend some time on the treadmill, hit the pool, steam room, and see if that’ll relax my aching muscles from playing soccer yesterday. 😀

  210. BTW – Terry McAuliffe spoke today. He said that if Hillary doesn’t get the nimination that she will be the first person to walk to Obama headquarters and pick up a sign and he expects Obama would do the same.

  211. basil .. his name is lamar from chicago,ill,i dont know if he made it available…i wanna to see it to ,but ive been looking for it.i cant find it..i saved his post though this morning

  212. Got that guys? No voicing your opinions because Donna Brazille might be watching!


    Tried several times to have a thoughtful discussion with you, it just degenerated, largely as I saw it because you’re trying to dfend the indefensible positions.
    Now I see you saying my arguments are a joke (without showing why, of course), I’m somehow sad, etc, etc.

    You even threw in this golden oldie for good measure,
    “-know that hillary will win the nomination and the presidency”

    So, you know, while you’re out with you’re little errand list,
    dont’ forget to go fuck yourself. Ok?

  213. CJ,

    iu looked for an article called “How Much Do You Really Know About Obama?” but couldn’t find it.

    Could you please post it if it turns up.

  214. Yeah, McAuliffe spoke here he’s going around to all the conventions I guess. He spoke about how important it is to get a Dem elected in November even if it isn’t the candidate we’re here to support today.

  215. sorry folks, its like a marriage to me…
    i think its funny, and i have to laugh at us.

    in laws ect..

    but all in all, everyone is still family…

  216. Clinton ramps up call to count Fla, Mich

    By BETH FOUHY, Associated Press Writer

    HILLSBORO, Oregon – Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton Saturday strengthened her pitch to allow disputed primaries in Michigan and Florida to be counted in the nominating contest, noting the vote totals had been officially recognized in each state.

    “Some say their votes should be ignored and the popular vote in Michigan and Florida should be discounted. Well, I have a different view,” Clinton said at a rally here. “The popular vote in Florida and Michigan has already been counted. It was determined by election results, it was certified by election officials in each state, it’s been officially tallied by the secretary of state in each state, and the question is whether those 2.3 million Democrats will be honored and their delegates seated by the Democratic party.”

    Both the Michigan and Florida primaries were essentially nullified after they were moved into January in violation of national Democratic party rules. The party voted to strip both states of their delegates and all the candidates, including Clinton and Obama, signed a pledge not to campaign in either state.

    Sen. Barack Obama and several other Democratic candidates also removed their names from the Michigan primary ballot.

    Both states saw record turnout in their primaries and the former first lady won both contests. Her campaign has pressed hard for the results to be recognized, even as the Obama campaign has argued Clinton is trying to circumvent rules she agreed to long ago.

    Clinton’s latest comments came a day after Michigan Democrats announced there would be no do-over of that state’s Jan. 15 primary, vastly dimming Clinton’s chances of catching rival Obama in the popular vote and in pledged delegates. Democrats in Florida had already announced there would be no revote there.

    Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean has been conferring with party leaders in both states, hoping to find a way to seat their delegations. The Obama campaign has proposed a 50-50 split of both states’ delegations, an option Clinton advisers have resisted.

    Obama spokesman Bill Burton dismissed Clinton’s latest call to recognize Florida and Michigan’s results.

    “Senator Clinton herself said these contests ‘didn’t count for anything.’ But now that it serves her own political self-interest, she’s trying to change the rules and count the results of contests where she and every other candidate pledged not to campaign,” Burton said. “In Michigan, Senator Obama wasn’t even on the ballot. Our focus should now be on seating the Michigan and Florida delegations in a fair manner.”

    It was Clinton’s first campaign visit to Oregon, whose primary is May 20. The state holds a largely vote-by-mail primary with ballots mailed starting April 28.

    Also Saturday, Clinton campaign officials acknowledged that an anecdote Clinton has made a staple of her stump speech in recent weeks may not have been true and wasn’t thoroughly checked for accuracy before she began repeating it on the campaign trail.

    Since competing in Ohio’s March 4 primary, Clinton has shared the story of an Ohio woman who worked in a pizza parlor and died after giving birth to a stillborn child. The woman was uninsured, Clinton said, and twice denied medical care at a local hospital because she couldn’t pay a $100 fee.

    Clinton said she learned of the story from a deputy sheriff whose home she visited while campaigning in Ohio. She told the story as recently as late Friday, at a rally in Grand Forks, N.D.

    Officials with O’Bleness Memorial Hospital in Athens, Ohio, have disputed the story, saying the woman, Trina Bachtel, was insured and did receive care through an obstetric practice affiliated with the hospital, The New York Times reported Saturday.

    Hospital officials did not immediately return phone calls Saturday from The Associated Press.

    Clinton spokesman Mo Elleithee acknowledged that the campaign had tried but hadn’t been able to “fully vet” the story before she began repeating it on the campaign trail.

    “She tells the story as it was told to her by the deputy sheriff. She had no reason to doubt his word,” Elleithee said. “If the hospital claims it didn’t happen that way, we certainly respect that and she won’t repeat the story. She never mentions the hospital by name and isn’t trying to cast blame.”

    Elleithee noted that candidates often retell stories they are told by voters they meet on the campaign trail.

  217. bcc at 11:30 am : if Obama believes that the voters of Michigan and Florida should be denied the right to select the nominee, but be seated only thereafter as a pro-forma gesture, then he is disingenous. Here is a little q&a to flush this out assuming my facts are accurate:

    Q. Barack Obama, do you believe in the concept of democacy as it has been interpreted by the United States Supreme Court?

    A. I believe that four score and seven years ago our Fathers brought forth on this continent . . .

    Q. Are those your own words?

    A. Uh uh . . . . Axelrod told me to . . . .

    Q. My question to you sir is do you believe in the concept of democracy as it has been interpeted by the Supreme Court of the United States–a simple yes or no will do.

    A. It depends on which decision you mean because as a Constitution law professor at a distinguished university I can think of many . . . .

    Q. I mean the simple, straightforward, time honored concept of law and equity known as one man one vote?

    A. Yes! (where the hell is this going?)

    Q. And can we agree that that this concept of democacy applies to women and men alike?

    A. May I have a glass of water?

    Q. No. Pumpkinhead is not in the room. Please answer the question.

    A. Cough . . my throat is dry.

    Q. Sir, I am prepared to wait for your answer until hell freezes over.

    A. I believe in it . . . .enough

    Q. I will take that as a yes.

    Q. And you would agree that one man one vote means everyone’s votes should count and count equally?

    A. In a general election yes but in a primary run by the party it is different . . .

    Q. Whooaa Silver! Are you suggesting that that your political party can count only the votes it wants to count and exclude the other registed voters who acted in good faith?

    A. Yes, we have that right under the rules, and they are not subject to judical review. I can assure you of that since I was once a constitututional law professor at a distinished institutution.

    Q. Then what you are really saying is that it in the primary it doesn’t really matter who votes, but who counts the votes- correct?

    A. Absolutely. In a primary that is true. May I borrow that line from my next speech? It has a nice ring to it!

    Q. Its fine with me but you better ask Joe Stalin cause he is the one who came up with that pithy comment. Still, it is gratifying to know that you and he agree when it comes to the rights of voters. But lets parse this out a little bit.

    Q. In the case of Florida the state legislature is controlled by the Republican Party, true?

    A. Yes.

    Q. And the Governor is a Republican as well?

    A. Yes.

    Q. And the Republican Governor and the Republican legislature passed legislation that moved the timetable of their primary forward?

    A. Yes.

    Q. So it was not really a decision by the Florida State Democratic Party was it, since they were not in control?

    A. No

    Q. And the DNC opposed that decision because it wanted other states to vote before Florida?

    A. Yes.

    Q. Yet the DNC did allow two other states to change their timetable without penalty?

    A. Yes

    Q. You and the other candidates were all on the Florida ballot were you not?

    A. Yes.

    Q. But none of you actively campaigned?

    A. Right.

    Q. And more than a million Florida Democrats came out to vote?

    A. Yes, and it shows how I have brought so many new voters into the party, it is because I promise change and hope and

    Q. Yet the voters you claim credit for voted overwhelmingly for Hillary did they not?

    A. No it was all those old white people . . . I think it was racially motivated. I bet my pal from Politico Chuck Todd would agree with me.

    Q. I bet he would too but as with Captain Nemo in Moby Dick he has been known to see land where there is no land– in New Hamphire.

    Q. It is a fact is it not that Hillary won Florida by an overwhelming majority?

    A. Yes.

    Q. And yet the DNC refuses to recognize that vote even though the state party and the voters acted in good faith, and other states were permitted to change timetables without penalty?

    Q. Once you saw the result and realized that the state favored Hillary, did you call for a new vote?

    A. No, the rules violated and

    Q. Sir, equity abhors a forfeiture. In fact you opposed a proposal to conduct a new vote which would have enfranchised those voters did you not?

    A. Well my lawyers, the cost uh uh uh

    Q. Do you deny that your surrogates including Wexler who had his own Rezko problem a few years back led the charge to disenfranchise the voters of his own state by refusing to recognize the initial vote and opposing a new one?

    A. Well, uh I wouldnt put it that way. . .

    Q. And if you are the nominee do you really believe the voters whom you and the DNC have disenfranchised in the primary will turn around and vote for you in the General Election?

    A. Well once I start spending money on advertising buy more support from state officials and activate my forces on the ground they will succumb. I am calling the shots so they had better fall in line.

    Q. Thank you for that final note of arrogance. It helps us know who you really are since the media has refused to vet you. I rest my case.

    that is. Is he perhaps punishing them for something they did? No? Then why? Oh . . . intra party politics. And if they did vote how woulld So if I understand what he is saying it is that 2.3 Americans should be disenfran if you cut to the chase candidate Obama believes Americans should be disenfranchised. Let him ride and his corrupt campaign ride that pony into the sunset.

  218. BLUE DEMOCRAT: Sorry–had to fly but just saw your response about OBAMA and DUAL CITIZENSHIP-
    According to the 1973 Constitution of Kenya–a child of a national (wherever born) is a citizen–it’s automatic. There’s no indication Obama has ever renounced his citizenship–so he probably still has it (is this what the passport spies were looking for?).
    Would he know?
    Yes, Because he has travelled to Kenya 3 times–he would be aware that he had dual citizenship.
    Since the situation in Kenya is very unstable–this is particularly an issue–but to be honest –I wouldn’t be comfortable with ANY president having dual citizenship ANYWHERE.
    Also: for SURE there are very high level gay Republican staffers & RNC guys (no women except Bay Buchanan
    ;-). They’re very discreet–but there’s quite a posse, actually. I think there were some articles on it when that Repub. got caught in the bathroom (anybody remember?)

  219. Wbboei,


    Especially the Stalin stuff and this:

    ‘No it was all those old white people . . . I think it was racially motivated. I bet my pal from Politico Chuck Todd would agree with me.’

  220. Oh Lord, the media never stops. Now her story is wrong. Gee, she is repeating the type of story she hears everyday. The fricken media hates her. It’s so personal with them. What a bunch of hacks.

  221. mj

    I put the entire article up for a reason and that is to use info provided as rebuttals for other bloggers on the net saying Hillary lied. Either the sheriff’s deputy lied or he got the story wrong. Every time Hillary has told this story she always says that she heard it from a sheriff’s deputy in Ohio and not first hand.

  222. Have to give Ed Shultz a hand, he has mcCain and Obama going at it because he called McCain a warmonger. McaCain demending the Obama denounce it… Maybe they should look up the definition before making such a stink about it.

  223. I posted this as a response to anarticle by David Pidgeon on

    From your article, last sentences:


    Kennedy: Insiders, heed the voters

    Obama backer differs with Hillary Clinton’s campaign manager over superdelegates’ role

    ………..Kennedy said Obama’s judgment and message supersedes the small number of years he’s spent in Washington, D.C.

    “I looked at who has the experience in Washington today, and I see Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld there, and I said, ‘That’s not the experience we want in Washington.’ We need fresh leadership.”


    my response:

    Why is it now after being the second longest serving member of the Senate he thinks we need fresh leadership? Why didn’t that occur to him as he repeatedly and successfully ran for Senate since 1962?


    Debbie Murphy

  224. We’re doing delegate elections now (still don’t know how many we get) and so far the AA Hillary supporters are the BEST advocates. They’re awesome.

  225. Great to hear, Tiny!

    What judgement does Obama have???? He lacks judgement. And, now Hillary is fricken Cheney!!!!!!!!!! Does anyone have ted kennedy’s phone number??

  226. I would like to hear Obama denounce the vulgar, vitrolic hatred, and obscene language that RR used at a supposed fundraiser for his campaign. The event was advertised on his website. By not denouncing it, he is giving tacit approval for this type of behavior, by his supporters. This is one of the many reasons, I will not vote for him.

  227. I’ve come up with a personal motto working with Hillary, it’s corny,

    Yes we will or I will wait

    it’s supposed to mean Hillary will win or I will wait 4 more years to vote for a democrat again.

    ok it’s corny but it works for me

  228. I’m ready to leave the democrat party but it won’t be to the rebublicans because I have issues with their non inclusive, and intrusive platform

    I’ll take a good look at the indies and see where a good fit might be.

  229. I’m planning on leaving the democratic (undemocratic) party, and will register as an independent.

  230. Kennedy is soft in the head. If a sign of Obama’s “good judgement and leadership skills” is sitting in a separationist church, listening to white-hatered, for twenty years, he has a few loose connections in his brain.

  231. debbie, I hate to bother tou with this, but could you possibly post the direct link to that article? I need it.

  232. birdgal

    You are talking about someone who wakes his son and nephew up late one night to go out drinking and we all know what happened after that.

  233. Hillary needs $955 to reach the goal of $15,000 for the doorhangers, let’s help close that goal so we can focus on the other areas of Hillarys! (Online Ads, Radio Ads, Signs, TV Ads)

  234. I’m back from whatever that was that they tried to pass off as democracy today. I was there for 7 hours. Nothing changed delegate wise, which is good because I’m in Obama territory. It was nice to be around a bunch of Hillary supporters and hear their reasons for supporting her and to also hear the issues of media bias and fl/mi etc come up. People are aware of these things and they’re pissed off!

  235. Tiny Dancer

    Good job!! I could never be a delegate in a caucus state. I would either end up in the hospital with a stroke or in jail for beating the crap out of someone.

  236. I just listened to Russert, Andrew Sullivan and Christopher Hitchens sound off on Hillary. It absolutely made me sick. If every woman in this country doesn’t vote for Hillary, I think they are missing the boat on this one. One thing I do know, if Hillary is the President, they will be beside themselves. I can’t begin to imagine what the pundits will do. They are disgusting and should be ashamed of themselves.

  237. MJS Says:

    April 5th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
    With large AA population and Student population, it will something hard for Hillary to overcome, but I think she can do it if she goes about it right
    Tiny: Personally I find her AA supporters to be some of the strongest and most admirable members of our coalition. I met one of them today at my caucus at the old Lincoln High School. She was a young AA medical doctor who relocated here from Birmingham Alabama and does research at the University Of Washinton.

    As I looked around at the night of the Living Dead Obamanics many of whom were closer to her age than mine the contrast could not have been greater. She said she had listened to both Hillary and Obama, there was real substance to her ideas, no real substance to his and on that basis she became a Hillary supporter. Impressive.

  238. Ininla

    This via Tex4Hill while you were gone yesterday afternoon:

    here is the link documenting obama bully tactics to get delegates here in houston.

    w w

    I know it’s long, but it worked for me.

    Scarey stuff.

  239. here is the link documenting obama bully tactics to get delegates here in houston-

    w w

  240. I’m not getting the 3am economic ad. Just saw it. She needs to hammer bread and butter issues and what she gonna do about foreclosures. Everybody knows she is the most qualified. I’d throw in a gun issue too.

  241. rjk: Teddy hasn’t exactly been the best example of good judgement and leadership skills. Nor does he have any moral courage. Aside from his nephew episode, there was also Mary Jo.

    Irish: I can’t even watch the news any longer. They have lost all credibility with me. I can’t take anything, they say seriously. To be so full of poison and hatred towards Hillary, is irrational and ridiculous. They are a mockery of themselves. I am so proud of Hillary, and the way she has handled herself through this psychological warfare. She makes her detractors look like peons.

    rjk: No one calls BO on his flip-flopping on issues. His stance depends upon his audience.

  242. I really do feel that Russert and crew from MSNBC will reap karma in some way for the absolute disgrace they have shown. I just wonder how much they are being paid by under the table to be so disbusting. Also, how they go home to their families after spewing such Wright like hate.

    That’s what I’m going to start callling it .. Wrightlike Hate towards Hillary Clinton

  243. Clinton speaks to huge crowd
    Janell Cole, N.D. Capitol Bureau
    The Jamestown Sun – 04/05/2008
    GRAND FORKS — Sen. Hillary Clinton invoked the aid her husband and his FEMA director offered to flood-stricken Grand Forks, to the delight of a roaring late night crowd in the Alerus Center.

    “It’s especially moving to me to know how this community has come back from the devastating floods of 1997,” she said, adding that it was too bad New Orleans didn’t have the same competent partners in recovery, she said, criticizing President Bush and his FEMA director.

    The New York senator and presidential contender was the second national candidate to speak to the North Dakota Democratic-NPL convention Friday evening, and most of the public that had poured in to hear Sen. Barack Obama at 5:30 stuck around for the former first lady.

    Her address came more than an hour after the party’s announced time, and stretched 51 minutes once she began about 8:45 p.m. The audience a-mused themselves by doing the wave until former Gov. George Sinner introduced her.

    She too, was presented a University of North Dakota Sioux hockey stick

    The Bush presidency, she said, hasn’t tried to help with the country’s problems, instead, “used fear to divide us and pessimism to discourage us.”

    “Since when did America become the can’t do nation? Let’s start acting like Americans again,” she said, as some in the crowd chanted, ‘Hillary, Hillary!’”

    She called it “a great honor for me to be here with all of you and it is exciting to be a North Dakota Democrat right now,” as the audience cheered.

    She called the assembled thousands “this amazing crowd” and added, “I didn’t know there were this many Democrats in North Dakota.”

    Like Obama before her, she criticized President Bush’s war in Iraq and reliance on tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations as an overarching national policy.

    “I have absolutely nothing against rich people,” she quipped, explaining that her husband has made a lot of money “talking to people” since he left office. But, she said, “We didn’t ask for George Bush’s tax cut. We didn’t want them and we didn’t need them.” The money could have been better spent on developing renewable energy, she said.

    Clinton called for an end to tax breaks for oil companies making record profits.

    She proposed three million new jobs in renewable energy and infrastructure, “jobs that can’t be outsourced” and on which Americans can raise their families.

  244. Clinton dazzles backers in metro area visit

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    Senator Hillary Clinton, right, speaks at Liberty High School in Hillsboro, Ore., Saturday. (The Columbian/Janet L. Mathews)

    Saturday, April 05, 2008
    By DEAN BAKER, Columbian Staff Writer

    HILLSBORO, Ore. — New York Sen. Hillary Clinton dazzled Clark County fans who got up at 5 a.m., drove to a suburban high school here, lined up in the rain with 5,000 other supporters and waited patiently until 9:50 a.m for the senator’s first appearance in Oregon as a presidential candidate.

    “I came here believing in her intellectually, and now I’m leaving as a passionate supporter,” said MarCine Miles, 64, a Vancouver attorney who wore a jeweled donkey pin and a black suit and described herself as a loyal Democrat.

    She said she would support Barack Obama, if he gets the nomination. But clearly, Clinton impressed her most. “She took an issue like ‘water,’ and just made a thing of beauty out of it,” she said.

    Miles and her two companions from Vancouver — Donna Quesnell, 69, a retired teacher, and Pat McClement, 76, a Navy wife — said they couldn’t have been more impressed as Clinton told an overflow crowd of about 2,600 at Liberty High School that “I am a fighter. … I will not quit.

    “I happen to believe this country is worth fighting for,” Clinton said. “And I also believe that you don’t make difficult, consequential change in America merely by wishing for it and hoping for it.”

    Clinton and her supporters have accused her primary opponent, Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, of being too strong on rhetoric and too weak on specifics.

    Security personnel locked the gym doors when all its seats were filled and standing room was packed. Hundreds more stayed on to watch Clinton’s speech on television and cheer.

    Clinton came to the Portland area and Eugene on Saturday to woo votes in the Oregon’s May 20 primary, one of the last in the nation. She said she’ll be back, and supporters said her campaign will open an office in Portland on Monday. Obama drew 30,000 backers to rallies in Portland and Eugene last month.

    Making several mild digs at Obama, Clinton cruised through a litany of issues: ending the war in Iraq, beginning with troop withdrawals within 60 days of taking office; ensuring universal health care; upgrading schools while canceling Bush’s unpopular “No Child Left Behind” program; approving stem cell research; eliminating tax breaks for the oil companies, and backing a panoply of programs promoting green energy and jobs.

    Among the new programs would be tax credits for use of wind power, support for energy-efficient construction and the promotion of light rail.

    She also said the disputed primary contests in Florida and Michigan should be counted, adding to her vote totals, which are falling short of Obama’s.

    Staunchly in Clinton’s camp were Katie Barrows of Battle Ground, the 17-year-old opinion editor of “The Tiger,” the newspaper of Battle Ground High School and Chris Reed, 45, of Orchards. Both said they were drawn to Clinton’s universal health care plan.

    “I argue for her all the time at school,” said Barrows, who aspires to attend Georgetown University and then law school before running for office herself one day. “She may be a future president,” said her grandmother, Vicky Barrows, a former teachers union official from Portland.

    Barrows’ friend, Zach Ferguson, 16, of Battle Ground, said he supports Obama, but was attending to learn all he can. Although he is too young to vote, he said he’ll back whichever Democrat is nominated in the general election. Barrows agreed.

    High up in the bleachers, Vancouver residents Ginny Ransier, 56, and her daughter, Shelley Graham, 31, said they were backing Clinton after being confused and disappointed by Washington state’s caucus and primary results, which Obama won.

    “I just want to see her in person,” said Ransier. “This is the first political rally I’ve attended.” Near them, Rachel Nold, 14, a Columbia River High School freshman, said she’s for Clinton. “I just like her,” she said.

    Taking her introductions from U.S. Rep. Darlene Hooley and Oregon Gov. Ted Kulongoski, Clinton drew resounding cheers for her programs, while the slightest mention of the names Bush or Cheney drew heavy boos from the crowd.

    “You are a great audience,” Clinton joked.

    She also joked that she has challenged Obama to a bowling match, after he rolled a terrible game a few days ago. She said she would send in a substitute: Kulongoski, calling him “my ringer.” Kulongoski is a dedicated bowler.

    After his bowling episode, Obama said he plans to get rid of the White House bowling alley and replace it with a basketball court. But Clinton said she expects the bowling alley to remain in January after she’s elected. And she said she’ll invite Kulongoski to come and roll a few lines.

    After speaking for 45 minutes, Clinton lingered in the gym a full half hour after a half hour question-and-answer session, shaking every hand that was extended.

  245. emjay,
    Skimmed the article.

    Sounds awfully similar to the school board meetings I used to attend in Newark, NJ where taunts, insults and fist fights were the norm 😀

    Also sounds like Middle School cafeteria duty the last week before summer vacation.
    It’s disgusting that they jeered Sheila.

  246. Obama, Clinton and McCain sign on to Israel 60th panel
    By Shlomo Shamir

    U.S. presidential hopefuls Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John McCain are scheduled to serve as vice chairmen of the National Committee for Israel 60th, according to a statement issued by the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations.

    The National Committee for Israel’s 60th, the planning committee overseeing Israel’s 60th anniversary celebrations, was organized by the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations to give official sponsorship to the dozens of events planned to take place throughout the United States in honor of Israel’s anniversary.

    Serving on the planning committee is often seen within the U.S. Jewish community as a public sign of support for Israel.

    Every living secretary of state

    The committee will be co-chaired by former U.S. presidents George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton. In addition, every living former secretary of state, including Henry Kissinger, has signed on to serve on the committee.

  247. from blogsof coulter
    Next stop: Investigate Obama’s ‘anonymous’ donors to his campaign. I just do not belive that money is all coming in dribs and drabs to add up to 40million$..

    i dont either how many dribs and drabs can ya believe!!exactly!!!none of it!!!

    I say it’s laundered and actually coming from Oprah and George Soros.Its why Oprah isnt on the trail she gives him the money and leaves her out..

    oh he has anonymous donors..isn’t that illegal

    Obama is now griping that those mean ol’ Main Stream Media are spanking him for his history with Wright, and that it is unfair to seek to find Obama’s real views.

    This little “Dreams of my Father” book backs what we all suspected.

    Obama is actually the sneaky pete black liberationist and christo-marxist that Reverend Wright proved himself to be, and all those twenty years of agit-prop feed to the congregation found their way into Barry’s eager and somewhat protruding ears in spite of his denials.

    Barry Obama is the perfect “Sleeper Cell” not for Islam, but for a much more insidious and terrifying enemy, the Reverend Wright and Cone brand of subversion Marxism, which uses the Christian religion to infiltrate and subvert the United States Government. The smile and differential manner are just the tool to sooth the power structure while you seeth with volcanic rage, and plot for the day that you can bring it ALL DOWN…..

    them repubs are after him..

  248. 11:30 a.m.: Clinton takes questions from Hillsboro audience

    Statesman Journal

    April 5, 2008

    HILLSBORO — Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton vowed today to stay in the hunt through Oregon’s May 20 primary.

    “One thing you know about me is that I don’t quit,” she told a cheering crowd of 3,000 packed into the Liberty High School gymnasium.

    Thousands waited outside, or were diverted into the cafeteria, as the New York senator launched her Oregon campaign. She gave a 45-minute stump speech, then took a few questions from the audience.

    She touched on a number of issues, including her proposal for a $50 billion investment fund for development of alternatives to fossil fuels and greater energy efficiency. She would pay for it by ending tax breaks for big oil companies.

    “I think we’ve had enough of false speeches and promises,” she said. “We need results.”

    Clinton is locked in a tight battle with Illinois Sen. Barack Obama for Oregon’s 65 delegates in the May 20 primary. The primary will determine how the candidates split 52 delegates; one is unpledged, and the other 12 are “superdelegates” who are elected officials and party leaders.

    “This is the first time in decades in a presidential primary that Oregon matters,” said U.S. Rep. Darlene Hooley of West Linn, who is a national co-chairwoman of Clinton’s campaign. “Oregon could be the place where we elect the first woman president.”

    After the Hillsboro event, Clinton is scheduled to go to Eugene this afternoon for a second Oregon stop.

  249. u see so few outside our circle of hrc supporters know of the way obama’s volunteers and dlegates behave. they act like animals. ive begged the cmapaign to package these episodes of abuse in a way to rpesent to supers. most supers are elcteds-they prefer order not this. they worry over a 68 situation-hell its obama’s thugs that are making each conv reminiescent guys . i wont vote for him bc hsi people bullied me.nealry all my hrc friends have faced their threats-look at shiela.
    sheila was basicially stoned by the crowd. u heard me-the woman was stoned by obamamaniacs. would supers like a member of congress-the only black woman on judiciary who is well known-being treated like this in a DEMOCRATIC conv? i think not. we got to get this stuff to the campaign.
    i send their legal people this stuff every day and have asked many campaign personell to use this. we may have to do it oursleves.

  250. a hill supporter!!!
    I am Not Republican, but I will be if O’wacko wins!! I am so disturbed by the Gulabilty of people flocking to this man. Even before Rev. Write it was Obvious this guy has an agenda. Then I was so happy when it came out about the Rev. but that was soon shattered by people dismissing it I have lost so much respect for the networks who are also bowing down to this “man”.HAre people so blind, this “man” says in his campaign speeches, “oh yes I want all votes to count” then behind closed doors he fights Michigan and Florida.That is just one of his many many deceits I have witnessed!!! OMG wake up people , WAKE UP MEDIA if this “man” gets in we are so screwed!!! If I remember my history lessons correctly wasn’t Hitler a charismatic speaker!!!!?

  251. Elton John Readies for Stop in Missoula, Montana at the Adams Center on April 11
    Atlanta, Ga. 4/05/2008 09:53 PM GMT (FINDITT)

    Elton John will be back on track with his run of shows with a stop in Missoula, Montana on April 11 with a performance at the Adams Center. The Missoula show will follow John’s “Elton and Hillary: One Night Only” fundraiser at Radio City Music Hall in New York on April 9. That show is designed to raise money for the Hillary Clinton presidential campaign.

    Following his performance in Montana Elton John will hit Pullman, Washington for a pair of shows on April 12 and 13 before heading to California and Florida. John will then hit Australia for three shows before returning to Las Vegas for a series of shows at Colosseum at Caesars Palace beginning June 3.

    John ranks as one of the most successful pop and rock artists of all time with more than 250 million albums sold world wide over a career that has spanned more than four decades.

    The 60-year-old artists was inducted into the Songwriter’s Hall of Fame in 1992 and two years later he was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. In 1995 John was made a Commander of the Order of the British Empire in 1995.

  252. Markets still think Hillary is more electable than Obama
    April 5, 2008
    The ’smart money’ is still more convinced by Clinton’s electability.

    Comparing the prices on for Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama to be both president and nominee continues to throw up some interesting results (as before all prices are last traded prices):

    Hillary Clinton: 8.9 / 13.7 = 64.96% chance of being elected if nominated.

    Barack Obama: 50.4 / 85.4 = 59.02% chance of being elected if nominated.

    Therefore the betting markets seem to be more positive about Clinton’s chances than those of Barack Obama. Personally, I still believe that Obama has about a 10% chance of beating McCain (maybe more if he makes a smart VP choice and McCain picks badly) while Hillary Clinton ticket has about 40% chance of beating the Senator from Arizona after ’snipergate’ and Carville’s antics. This is because of many reaons, such as; experience, connections with blue-collar voters, experience (snipergate nothwistanding) and foreign policy stance.

  253. i worked in a holocaust museum for yrs. i know many survivors. as a ew myself i find obama’s tactics sick-and it reminds me of fascism. it remind some of the stories so many surivors have told me. i always asked, never understanding fuly, how fascists could take power-hell the nazis lost seats in the 32 election, but guess what hitler came to power how? thru violence. bullying. scaring people into submission. im tired of it.-but i now know how fascists pulled it off. u crete chaos. you use intimiidation to the point of submission and u run over all who ever oppose u.

    hey- he sat in a church for 20yrs with a preacher who rpeached hate against my people, agianst gays, iltialians and our own country. 20 yrs. it is against every tenant i believe as a jew,as our people have been persecuted for 2000 yrs, to ever be silent about obama, his hate f illed pastor nut, his thugish tactics to bully hillary’s supporters, his manipulation of our system to get power etc… we jews faced stacked systems, abuse and more-now I understand what the survivors tell about how nasty rgeimes come to power. no i dont think obama is a nazi for godsake, but his group uses tactics reminiscent of extremist movements-and i wonder abou what kind of governeance would we have with his and his freikorp like band of bullies runnign around.

    at least mccain comes form a generation that understands compormise. understands how things like torture are wrong. mccain spent yestderday int he company of aa s in tn, told them he was wrong on the mlk holiday vote, spoke fo how we still are segregated ins chools etc-we are still unequals in many ways. that took courage.
    where was obama? in IN dolling out his feel good syrup.hillary and mccain are among our best-they took time to pay homage on sacred ground. hilary met mlk. mccain was in the hanoi hilton. and obama was in diapers.

    hillary and mccain served this country in many ways. obama has not. instead his contribution to america has been to divide people, use thug tactics to win caucuses, be silent on open mysogeney in the media-not even condoning his media ally and fundraiser randi rhodes when she called hillary a bitch and worse.

    this man reminds me of the abusive husband-he beats you and beats you, then one day u pack up an leave. if he is the nominee i wont be in his camp of abusers period. i will be a democrat for mccain-just to make sure our abuser gets defeated and can not return again to the poltical scene with any credibility.

  254. @ wbboei 5:29 pm,

    Q. I mean the simple, straightforward, time honored concept of law and equity known as one man one vote?

    A. Yes! (where the hell is this going?)

    But we already know that anyone so wedded to and dependent upon the caucus concept already is opposed to “one man one vote.”

    You know, my 82 year-old grandmother lives in Kansas City, KS. She has been a LIFELONG Democratic party voter. She’s been loyal to the Democratic party since before little BO was a sparkle in his daddy’s eye.

    She’s also broken her hip not once but TWICE and had NO BUSINESS going out for the whole Kansas caucus in EARLY FEBRUARY. What do you suppose the weather is like there that time of year? Maybe dangerous for shaky little old ladies to be out walking and/or driving about? Don’t even get me started on expecting her to stand around for hours at a time, or talk longer and louder than the other attendees.

    Now had there been a primary, she’d happily have taken a ride to the polling place and cast a ballot for Hillary, but caucusing? That’s ridiculous.

    So once again, I’m thinking about it and I’m getting a little steamed about the absurd voter nullification process known as caucusing.

  255. @ debbie 5:59 pm:

    :D! Love it.

    Retirement for thee, but not for me, right Senator Big Head Ted?

    Hey apropos of nothing… I was in a restaurant in Foggy Bottom a couple of years ago (I live in DC) and Senator Ted and his party came in. Marcel’s, I believe. Anyway, that man really does have the most gigantic head I have ever seen on a human being. It’s freaky.

    Mean, yes. But true.

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