Ohio Debate With Hillary Clinton And Big Media And Barack Obama

Hillary Clinton will be debating Tim Russert, Brian Williams and Big Media tool Barack Obama tonight.

The debate will be telecast live on the horrid MSNBC.

9:00 – 10:30 p.m. (ET)

Watch the debate on the internet HERE

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Moderators: Brian Williams, Tim Russert

Williams: video of Hillary “honored” to be Obama; video of Hillary saying “Shame” to Obama. Explain.

Hillary: This is a contested debate. We have differences. In recent days flyers and mailers and other information on my position on NAFTA have been disturbing to me. It is unfortunate that Obama is saying I would force health care on people if they can afford it or not. I care passionately about heath care. This is a debate that should be fair. My plan covers everyone and is affordable. Obama’s plan leaves 15 million people out. We should not use discredited information especially on quality affordable health care.

Williams: The native garb question.

Clinton: I know nothing about it. It is not the behavior I condone. I ask people to leave my campaign if they do something I do not approve.

Obama: I take Clinton on her word on the photo. 95% of our health care plan is similar. Senator Clinton’s mailers say I leave out 15 million Americans. The difference is regarding mandates. She would force in some fashion people to get health care. Senator Clinton does not say how she forces people to get health care or how it can be affordable. Senator Clinton’s campaigns has sent out many mailers attacking my position. I have not whined about it.

Clinton: This is an issue that goes to the heart of whether this country does what is right. Senator Obama has a mandate in his plan – for children. The difference is that I know from the work I have done in this over the years is that insurance companies will cherry pick only the heathy people. Obama’s attack goes to the heart of whether or not we can achieve health care. I find regretable in Obama’s mailing that it is almost as if the insurance companies wrote it. My plan is affordable. Many experts say this. As Democrats we need to stake out universal health care as a core Democratic value.

Obama: Senator Clinton is saying something not accurate. President Clinton’s former secretary of labor says my plan is better. We do better to reduce costs. The fact of the matter is that we don’t know how she enforces her mandate, like in Massachusetts, in which people prefer a fine rather than purchase health care. The insurance companies want a mandate. They want everyone to buy their products.

Clinton: Senator Obama has a mandate. That is the case. A mandate must be enforceable. It would be as though FDR said let’s make Social Security voluntary. We have said that at the point of employment we would have people sign up. They would be automatically enrolled. There is enough money in my plan to make it affordable. I would limit the amount people would have to pay. Without health care we will not have prevention. Those who compare our plans say mine is affordable and universal.

Obama: I do provide a mandate for children because it will be an affordable price. If the subsidies are inadequate people will not be covered. Senator Clinton cites experts who say our plans are not that different. Medicare Plan B is voluntary. People choose to purchase it.

Clinton: Senator Obama does not cover everyone. We need a plan for universal health care.

Obama: With respect to young people up to 25 you can be covered by your parents.

Clinton: It is important to discuss this issue.

Williams: NAFTA, good for Texas, job killer for Ohio.

Clinton: In all the debates I am the one who always gets the first question. It’s like Saturday Night Live with Obama being asked if he is comfortable. I will answer. I represent upstate New York. I have seen the economic problems. Companies have gotten tax benefits to move. I would have a trade time out to fix NAFTA. We need core labor and environmental standards. We need to stop sniping at our protections for workers. I have received a lot of criticisms and the Cleveland Plain Dealer has said Obama’s attacks on me have been inaccurate. NAFTA heavily disadvantaged some of our industries.

Obama: I think it is inaccurate for her to say she has always opposed NAFTA. She liked it when she was running for Senate. Senator Clinton has shifted position on this. When I first moved to Chicago I saw then the net costs of these agreements.

————————–

Russert: Clinton, you did say you liked NAFTA. You said it proved its worth. Based on that since we can get out of NAFTA in 6 months.

Clinton: I said I will renegotiate NAFTA. I will opt out of NAFTA if we can’t negotiate. There are places in upstate NY where NAFTA worked and places in Ohio where it did not work.

Russert: But you have said you liked NAFTA.

Clinton: You do not have the entire record. The Cleveland Plain Dealer said that Obama’s criticism is inaccurate. I have said that we need to renegotiate or opt out. We also need a clear view on how to renegotiate NAFTA. David Gergen stated on TV today attesting to the fact that I was skeptical of NAFTA.

Russert: You will opt out.

Clinton: We will renegotiate.

Russert: You have been for NAFTA earlier.

Obama: Senator Clinton is right. I would also opt out. The Chicago Tribune endorsed me in spite of my strong opposition to NAFTA. I said trade deals can be beneficial. We can’t shy away from globalization. We have been looking for what is good for corporations, not main street.

—————————-

Russert: Some journalists have said the problem is exports and investment.

Obama: Trade cannot be the only part of our economic agenda. We need to invest in infrastructure. We have to create green jobs. There are all sorts of things to do.

Russert: Your economic blueprint. I read it carefully. You pledge to create 5 million jobs. In Buffalo you pledged 200,000 jobs but there has been job loss.

Clinton: I counted on Gore being president. We needed shared prosperity. I have worked hard to create jobs. We can create at least 5 million new jobs. I have passed bills to create jobs and green jobs. If we put 5 billion dollars in training and tax incentives we would be on the way to create 5 million jobs. Germany went green and created many jobs that cannot be outsourced.

Williams: Clinton said we cannot afford another president who is inexperienced. Compared you to Bush. Were her comments unfair.

Obama: She equates experience with longevity. I spoke out against the Iraq war. I suggested we need to get tough with Musharraf and hunt down terrorists. On the critical issues that matter my judgment has been sound.

Williams: You took a pass earlier. Is America taking a risk with Obama?

Clinton: I have a long record, Beijing, and other countries. Senator Obama is to be commended for that speech. Many people gave speeches. Senator Obama praised Bush on Iraq. We have voted exactly the same in the senate on Iraq. Obama said he would bomb Pakistan. I disagree with that. I continue to disagree with him on meeting with enemies without preconditions. I have traveled and negotiated around the world. Standing on that stage with Senator McCain I have a better case to make.

Obama: My objections were not simply a speech. I was running for senate. This was a big strategic blunder. Once we had driven the bus into the ditch. Senator Clinton says she is ready on day 1 but she gave in to Bush. She facilitated and enabled Bush. With respect to Pakistan I said if we have actionable intelligence and Pakistan can’t or won’t do anything I will. Now there is more cooperation. My claim is not made on a speech.

Russert: You both pledge withdrawal and a residual force. If Iraq says you have to get out completely, will you leave.

Obama: If they ask us to leave, we have to leave. We should not be hostage to Iraq.

Clinton: Absolutely get out. There is no military solution.

Russert: If Americans get out in totality and Al Qaida reemerges do you go back in.

Clinton: Too many hypotheticals. It is in Iraqi and American interest to plan for an orderly withdrawal. I have been fighting to get that plan. Bush also wants to get an agreement to force us to stay in Iraq. Senator Obama heads a committee on foreign countries which includes NATO but has not held one single meeting.

Russert: Oversight, no meetings. and getting back in Al Qaida.

Obama: I became chairman at the beginning of this campaign so I could not hold hearings. We are getting resistance from our allies to get more trips to Afghanistan. I always reserve the right for the President to act if Al Qaida grows in Iraq.

Clinton: The question…..

Williams: We need to take a break.

—————————————-

Williams: Obama, video of Hillary in Rhode Island, celestial video, – the tape was in error. How did you take it?

Obama: I understand the broader point Senator Clinton is trying to make. I spent years helping families. That is how I started my career. I helped reform welfare and help with the tax system. If Senator Clinton thinks it’s all talk she needs to talk to those I helped, like veterans. I passed ethics bills. I fought the special interests. I met with 4 women in Cinncinnati who have no health care, job, ageing parents, dipping into retirement accounts. Nobody has been listening to them.

Clinton: I was having fun but the larger point is that getting health care will not be easy. 15 years ago I tangled with the health insurance industry and special interests. They have to be fought. I put out a plan on getting 55 billion dollars back from the special interests. As I travel through Ohio, people are working harder going nowhere. Obama voted for Cheney’s energy plan. I voted against. I will fight for the people of Ohio.

Williams: video, she wants to take credit for Bill Clinton policies but not the bad.

Obama: She often says this is what WE accomplished. I don’t begrudge her that. You can’t take credit for the good things and then say behind the scenes I was against the bad. She talked about me objecting to caps on credit cards. I objected against the whole bill. She said she voted for it but hoped it did not pass. She says she is a fighter on health care but the way she approched it was wrong. She just wanted to fight. Not only the health insurance companies but Jim Cooper and other Democrats. I know hope is not enough. It won’t be easy. The only way to get this done is to mobilize the American people. That’s what I will do as president. We have to go after the special interests. She said we can’t just wave a magic wand but then she takes money from special interests.

Russert: Keeping your word. You said you would opt for public financing. Checked yes on a questionnaire. Why won’t you keep your word?

Obama: I am not yet the nominee. We still have a lot of contests to go. I will sit down with McCain and work out a system that is fair for both sides. I do not take PAC money or federal lobbyists. I had confidence the American people would finance the campaign. Our average donation is $109.

Russert: So you may break your word?

Obama: I will work with McCain.

Russert: You will not release your joint tax returns. Accountability. Why won’t you release your tax returns of you and your husband?

Clinton: The American people are financing my campaign. We are raising about 1 million a day. I will release my tax returns upon becoming the nominee. The public has 20 years of my records. I will work towards releasing.

Russert: The archives released 20 million pages. Will you release those papers.

Clinton: I have urged for quick release. The Bush White House also has to OK things.

Russert: Obama, Farrakhan endorsed you.

Obama: I have denounced his anti-semitic statements. I did not seek his endorsement.

Russert: Do you reject his support?

Obama: I can’t say to someone they don’t like me.

Russert: He called judaism a “gutter religion”.

Obama: I have said it is reprehensible.

Russert: Reverend Wright of your church. He called Farrakhan great. He traveled to Libya with him.

Obama: I am a stalwart friend of Israel. We have a special relationship.
——————————————–

Clinton: I faced a similar situation in New York. The Independence Party in NY was headed by anti-semites and I rejected their support. I would not be associated with them. I won but at the time it was important to stand on principle. There is a difference in denouncing and rejecting. Everything Barack said is sincere but we cannot let these people say these things.

Obama: I will reject and denounce.

Break.
——————————————
Williams: National Journal rates you more liberal than Ted Kennedy.

Obama: That rating is based on 2 votes. These ratings are silly. The votes were on illegal immigration and investigations in the Senate. I don’t think my position on ethics investigations are liberal. Why is this supposed liberal attracting Republican votes. People don’t want to back to those labels. Polls show I beat McCain.

Russert: Russian elections. What can you tell me about him.

Clinton: He is an appointed successor. The so called opposition leader praises Putin. I have been critical of Bush policy towards Russia. It is imperative that we begin a realistic policy.

Russert: What is his name?

Clinton: Medevde.

Obama: Bush looked into Putin’s eyes and liked what he saw.

Russert: He is 42 and a former campaign manager for Putin. What if he sends troops to Serbia.

Obama: The Clinton administration put together a coalition and helped Kosovo and Serbia.

Russert: Your careers in public service. Votes you’d like to take back.

Clinton: My vote on Iraq was sincere. I would not have voted that way again. I would not as president take us into foolish wars. But this election is about the future. China, Middle East, Israel are all a mess after George Bush. My unique experience prepares me to deal with Putin and others because we don’t have that much time.

Obama: In my first year there was the Terri Schiavo case. I voted to intervene and I think that was a mistake. We are wrapping up the debate. There is still a lot of fight in this contest. The one thing I am sure about is that Senator Clinton is a good campaigner. We care about the American people. We hear heart breaking story after heart breaking story. They want a little hand up. It is critical to change the way things are done in Washington.

Williams: Closing. What is the fundamental question Senator Clinton has to answer to prove her worthiness as a nominee.

Obama: I think she is worty as a nominee. I think I am better that is why I am running. She would be better than McCain. He wants to continue a war we can’t afford. I think I can keep the country together. I have a track record as a community organizer and in state government.

Clinton: There is no doubt we both feel strongly about our country and we bring committment and energy. As I said last week, it is a honor to campaign. This campaign is history making. I am proud to be the first woman president which is a challenge to the way things have been done. Either one of us will be history making. My experience in government and the private sector gives me a special insight into making change. There are 142,000 kids without insurance in Ohio. A mother looked at me and said “will you help us?” I will do what I can in the states to come. The weathy have had a president and I want to be a president for all.

ITS OVER.

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1,152 thoughts on “Ohio Debate With Hillary Clinton And Big Media And Barack Obama

  1. I’m not watching ::hides in corner and rocks back and forth::

    These things kill me. But kick his ass Hillary!

  2. Obama sucks, he is going to deny this country UHC and he doesnt care, as long as its easier to get elected with his plan. BLAH!

  3. If you don’t want to puke, hit the mute button when he talks! That’s what I am doing. I can not even look at the screen when he is talking.

  4. he is going to deny this country UHC and he doesnt care, as long as its easier to get elected with his plan.

    yes, completely true.

  5. Associated Press:

    “Obama said the United States should continue to work with the World Trade Organization and pursue deals such as the North American Free Trade Agreement”

  6. I like the line and tone she has chosen so far, it is very likable and effective, she is passionate!! She’s not apologizing for attacking him, keep it up!!

  7. Part of me hopes she just stands up, flips them off, utters some profanities and then they cut away to Maury Povich.

  8. This debate is going to make a lot of people angry at the treatment Clinton is getting, they are making her bias argument for her.

  9. she HAS to NAIL him on the fact that he didnt get to vote on iraq and has voted with her consistently since he’s been in the senate!!! he voted for the surge!!!

  10. actually, I hope Timmy chokes on Barack Obama’s nasty, grimy, baby cock. Right after Larry Sinclair, TEd Kennedy, John Kerry, and Oafrah WinFred 😀 😉

  11. Hillary just say Obama you were not in the senate, you cannot possibly tell us how to vote.

    He’s funding that fucking war

  12. Honestly…lol…she has won this debate by default. It’s how many against one woman?

    Hillary is rocking the house with her honesty and wonderful answers. That’s all that matters!

  13. Bambi:

    “There’s not much of a difference between my position on Iraq and Bush’s position at this point.”

  14. I swear this is SNL come to life. Hillary should have just had Amy Poehler take her place so she could campaign in Texas.

  15. Please stop saying Pakistan Obama, you can’t pronounce it right! After 7 years of nukleur and terruh I want a president who can pronounce things.

  16. Obama is a FUCKING SON OF A BITCH LIAR. HE WILL BURN IN HELL WHEN HE DIES. Same with Russert, except Hell would be too nice of a sentence for this dinghole bitch-faced crook.

  17. Do you know how many times the Bushies claimed they took out the third ranking official of al-Qaeda ?

    How GULLIBLE can you get ?

  18. Wow, the majority of Luntz focus group on Fox of undecided voters thinks Hillary is winning the debate!!! They think she’s more specific and has more information on the issues. They also pointed out that he is just agreeing with her at times!! Unbelievable!

  19. Present company on this board excepted…and all the other nice men in the world

    just THESE MSHITJOBNBC MEN

  20. PLEASE GOD. Do Americans a favor and kill off Tim Russert 🙂 I wouldn’t mind either way whether he died quietly or violently 🙂 But please, this man is a douche bag to the 100th degree and needs to be gone gone, bye-bye 🙂

  21. This debate is going to cause a massive backlash among the public. This is just a complete rip into Hillary in any way and close her off when she respnds.

  22. they only interrupt her…they never dare to stop him…they better give her a chance to respond after commercial…

    that smugness is unbearable…the arrogance..he sits there like ‘let’s just ignore her’

  23. I do hope someone sneaks up on Russert tonight when he’s getting in his car and blasts a cap right trhough his left nut.

  24. They are the most shameless bastards. I would not be surprised if they already discussed the questions with BO befor the debate.

  25. Hill is handling Russert tonight…

    Also, on the Fox focus group Luntz says only four were Hillary supporters before the debate started. Hannity asked them the famous “Name one thing Obama has accomplished” no one could come up with anything except one said he was in the senate.

  26. Did y’all hear bambi say hs campaign doesn’t “whine” when she “attacked ” him on healthcare…..whine? Whine? Are you serious…..?

  27. do you SERIOUSLY think there will be backlash??? i dont. there should be, but i dont think anyone in the media is going to say shit abt “one of their own.”

  28. # moononpluto Says:
    February 26th, 2008 at 9:49 pm

    This debate is going to cause a massive backlash among the public. This is just a complete rip into Hillary in any way and close her off when she respnds.

    let’s hope so

  29. Hillary should say “maybe you didn’t whine because all the things I criticized about you were TRUE while I can’t say the same for the reverse.”

  30. guys, i doubt this will get a lot of public backlash. Tons of Americans are idiots. In fact, just look at Obama’s cult. The prime example of stupid Americans.

    There will not be a ton of backlash just going by the masses of idiots and fools who support Obama blindly.

  31. @SpacegirlArt,

    It doesn’t matter if his lemmings are thrilled. They don’t know any better.

    The dems have to be looking at this and going…twilight zone! twilight zone!

    The fact that Hillary is still standing, that she goes into enemy zones like this and holds her own…well…

    Bravo Hillary! You go girl!

  32. I will say it again. Obama’s supporters are the prime example of how stupid many Americans really are. Stupid, selfish, ignorant, foolish, and blind. If Obama ever becomes nominee, it will be because he was able to amass a large legion of idiots.

  33. # Gorto Says:
    February 26th, 2008 at 9:54 pm

    Oh my god, he is such a copycat, now he is copying her lifestory!! what the hell,

    no kidding

  34. he passed a law so that the vets at walter reed dont have to pay for their phone calls and then he goes into how this is going to create jobs in ohio. HUH???? WHAT????

  35. Spacegirl, I don’t really mind not having Kerry as president. I think had he been president, the democrats would be in a bad position today.

    however, Obama is the most RIDICULOUS presidential candidate with a chance at winning, that I have ever seen. He makes Dennis Kucinich look intelligible and sane, and that’s saying a lot coming from me.

    And his masses of adoring idiotic “fans” put the likes of Britney Spears followers and Paris HIlton wannabes to deep deep shame.

  36. I have to say that this three-ring circus is so bizarre. I think I might be watching the Rocky Horror Picture Show at the moment. Is this really a debate?

  37. She should say…bbut could I at least have 1/4 the time my opponent is getting to answer questions? Would that be fair do you think sir? Please sir?

  38. What does her tax return have to do with the issues? Gas prices are over the top right now, the economy suck shit…. I could give a rat’s ass about her tax returns.

  39. AS SOON AS BAMBI LOSES THIS YEAR, BE IT THE DEM NOMINATION OR THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, I BEGIN MY CAMPAIGN AGAINST HIM HERE IN CHICAGO. I WILL CANVASS EVERY DAMN CONDO IF I HAVE TO TO POINT OUT HOW CROOKED AND PATHETIC THIS ASSWIPE IS.

  40. Just peeked.

    She looks tense…pale….she knows what’s being done to her….i HATE this ……And he goes on and on and on and on and on about BS . . . .

    BO is a nasty gloating bag of sh!t and russert attacks her for intimating that BO wouldn’t stand on principal…..
    I don’t know how she endures this. The stress has to be unimaginable. the pressure …BO looks like the cat that swallowed the canary. The game is on his terms – FUck em all and the horses they rode in on.

  41. he won that last point. f*ck!

    i’m sorry guys… this thing is almost over and we havent even made it to the kitchen, muchless have we seen the sick! she did well, but i dont think its enough to change things.

  42. maybe their strategy was to attack her in the beginning and then attack him at the end…

    doncha love how he’s ABOVE everything??? the ratings are “silly”…. yeah bc he’s just so friggin smug and everyone else is just beneath him

  43. Obama talks a long time to run down the clock….less time for Hillary to trip him up again..I wish these debates were two hours

  44. for Obama, is just reminds everyone of the muslim dress thing, the islamic thing, puts too many questions in peoples minds

  45. rjk, is Obama’s contributors list public? Someone should look for known Farakhan supporters who have given money.

  46. it’s still on there as of yesterday

    I would rather send someone HERE the deeper link i found to the picture. aomeone who can find the owner of the URL

  47. Every time he cites Republicans supporting him, Hill should bring up the email. Dems don’t like that sh**

  48. Someone should comb through the debate and figure out the time allocated to each candidate.

    Oh JEEEEZZZ – Senator O, do you know anything about Putin? Well, i agree with what she said…..

  49. odrama looks like the back up…no way around it…he looks like a rookie and maybe could come off the bench…

    he repeats all of hillary’s info

  50. NBC: Sir, a president needs to react to unexpected events. So give us your reaction to Mr. F’s endorsement, which he announced last week, and which you have had a whole week to work on. I hope that’s long enough….

  51. how about Hillary suggest: If she had Obama’s experience, his rhetoric, and his positions in life and such, she would’ve been laughed off the stage in February of 2007

  52. okay… she got her dig in abt iraq!

    i hate that he gets the last word.

    i dont know what i think abt tonite… she did the best she could, but i dont think most ppl are smart enough to see what we see when they gang up on her!

  53. Oh, no he’s saying how proud he is to be running with her…..copying her lines from last week,

    She looks drained. The old boys club rigged it against her ….

  54. So I am thinking that some people come here and lurk, so lets be real positive about every Hillary did right…and everything Obama did wrong.

  55. Brian Williams: if you missed any of the gang-rape of our girl and tossing of softballs to Stinky-boy, you can re-live the excitement on msnbc.com.

  56. I don’t know how she handles all that stress. She has such discipline. She’s a real role model.

  57. Brian Williams: if you missed any of the gang-rape of our girl and tossing of softballs to Stinky-boy, you can re-live the excitement on msnbc.com.

    no shit

  58. He tried to play her last debate closing and looked downtrodden that he couldn’t wring a standing ovation out of the Ohio crowd. Oh lord….he’s friggin’ pathetic!!

  59. gawd… i despise andrea mitchell!!! but she’s actually not bashing hillary..yet.

    i hate this, but i am agreeing w/tweety…. there were no touchdowns, all field goals… are we gonna win tx and ohio with field goals???

  60. This period will not go down as American media’s finest moment. It will go down as the worst. I really hope someone, fair and impartial, writes a tell-all book about the debacles of this campaign.

  61. Goddamn.

    Someday, when I graduate from College and get to a high position in Politics, I am making sure the likes of Chris Matthews and Russert are FIRED and FORBIDDEN from any professional jobs and that the likes of bambi are shipped to the wonderful hope-filled-land of Insane Asylums.

    Better yet, I’m sending Bambi to the REAL care of his slumlord friend Rezko while he is serving out his life sentence.

  62. I wish cnn would stop saying Hillary is complaining about the press. It also includes people who are voting for Obama. Doesn’t cnn read their own websites?

  63. All I know – I will never vote for him. even if Hillary herself is going to endorse him. He don’t deserve to be a president

  64. btw, Bambi’s arrogrant prick look made me want to stab out his fucking eyes. He is no better than a nudered dog and yet he thinks he’s better than hillary? PFFT. LMAO as if.

  65. # Joe Friday Says:
    February 26th, 2008 at 10:42 pm

    Matthews thinks Bambi is “THRILLING”. !

    WHAT??????!!!!!!

    He is such a tool

  66. “unflappability?” More like night of the living dead. And, why did they not push on BHO and his tight relationship with Wright and his church?

  67. hillfans, our girl did well. let bambi agree with hillary all he wants. the russain question should have been asked to him. he clearly did not know about it. i thibk timmy knew that. big media does not want to humiliate golden boy.

  68. time to turn the channel on msnbc analysis…they are going to keep it up…he’s cool…she calmed down …bla, bla, bla..bunch of sexists idiots…

    and paul begala just stated there is anti-hillary bias…you have to be on the moon not to see it…

  69. ok guys good luck 🙂 All i know is after this thrashing, I am donating a further $333.33 to Hillary today 🙂 In Asia, the numbers “3” and “8” are very lucky and symbolize great hope and success 😀 and I don’t think I can spend $888.88 right off the bat lol.

    anyways, doing hw. make our voices hear. post comments and savage obama.

  70. @space: whatta weird day for florida??? i was watcing on cnn/fox abt the power outtages and weather. i started thinking of the last scene of that movie “magnolia”….

  71. GOD another BUSH

    Obama cant say the word “Massachusetts”

    Anyone notice that I noticed it in the last debate

    He says “mass a TOOO setts”

    And whats up with those thumbs of his anyway????
    Drives me frikkin bonkers, always sticking up pointing to the sky like lightening rods!!

    Cant stand looking at him makes me want to poke my eyes out with a sharp stick!!

    4AM here g’night people:)

    HILLARY ROCKS

  72. whatta weird day for florida??? i was watcing on cnn/fox abt the power outtages and weather. i started thinking of the last scene of that movie “magnolia”….

    He Who Shall Not Be Named will have his father 👿 wipe Florida off the map for voting for Hillary. You Floridians are in big big trouble. 😉

  73. from the cnn blog:

    Is it just me, or was Tim Russert really ripping Hillary a new one. Him and Brian were playing favorites more than that SNL sketch last week.

  74. timmeh very pleased with himself as usual. does point out that hillary jumped to answer the russian election question that wasn’t addressed to anyone. i missed that, did obama sit back again and then reply ‘what she said’

  75. How does Obama “score” more points? His answers were all “what Hillary said”.

    he gets more points because he kept saying “Senator Clinton is right” and “I agree with Senator Clinton” and “Well, it’s like Senator Clinton said.”

    LMAO!

  76. Tax returns are not as important as known consorting with Iraqi
    OMG – it’s the Midwest Democracy Center questionnaire – he soooooo pandered to that big liberal org here in Chicago – got an endorsement no doubt from his friend Dan Johnson Weinberger at MDC.

  77. I have CNN on and they’re showing a clip of Obama speaking, my dog just wandered into the room and peed on the carpet. That’s what she thinks of Obama.

  78. That was the most disgusting displaying of political bias i’ve ever had the misfortune to see. They should have just laid out a bed and let him go to sleep or recorded his answers earlier so he could be elsewhere.

  79. she hit back on her Nafta and her health care. She made her case on foreign policy and domestic issues.

    I think she won support tonight. Any sane person watching this debate (especially women will feel exactly what I felt … extreme hatred from Russert towards her) she beat him back and she did it with dignity and grace.

    This shored up her women supports. Obama looked defeated, Hillary looked sharp and focused.

    The fact that he keeps saying that he agrees with every plan she has does not bode well for him with undecideds….

    Hillary will Texas and Ohio.

    People PLEASE continue to phone bank, it’s so important right now.

    Russert is one sicko, his hatred of her was blatant. I think he needs an exorcist

  80. Hillary did very well in this debate. I loved her closing about how everyday she would fight for the middle class. Obama tried to say something profound in his closing but just couldn’t do it. I have been noticing this thing about him: he has great difficulty connecting emotionally, he is very aloof emotionally. Hillary did a very smart thing saying that she would like to take her Iraq vote back. This is the best way to do it without apologizing.

    She was classy, articulate, knew her issues, stuck to her guns and did very well considering that this is a debate by MSNBC which is biased towards Obama. She owned him on health care and on foreign policy. When he was waffling on Louis Farakkhan, she forced him to take a strong stand. Follow the leader Obama. He said she would be a worthy nominee and better than McCain, Is that an endorsement from him? Hillary cleverly avoided saying that. Because any such thing from her would have been spun by the media as a sort of concession. She also made it clear while she is honored to be running with him, she is in this to win and that she intends to win.

  81. russert just BOLD FACED lied abt campagn finance!!! he said barry doesnt want 527s when everyone knows abt votehope, moveon, seiuvoice…. the list just friggin goes on and on!!!

  82. did obama sit back again and then reply ‘what she said’

    She said he was handpicked by Putin, and then went into detail. When the question went to Obama he said, “Well, he was handpicked by Putin. But let me just say this…I was at the grocery store the other day. The one on Westmount avenue…they have lovely produce there. Although there meat isn’t all that great. Did I ever tell you that my uncle Odingil was a butcher in Kenya?”

    😉

  83. His view was pretty good in the cheap seat in 2003 – he didn’t even vote. I have no doubt that he would have done exactly the same as Hill and the rest.

  84. Obama was in the peanut gallery in 2002 not in the arena. Whenever going gets tough he disappears and votes “present.”

  85. people are posting their thoughts on cnn blog: go over there and add yours!

    ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/02/26/live-from-the-anchor-desk-22608/#comment-32405

  86. i think obama is pronouncing pakistan/afghanistan more as it would be said in native languages in those countries, i guess it sounds weird because he is not saying it with a strong american accent: PACK-I-STAYN. same for taliban. i don’t know if a lot of voters will think it is weird (i didn’t notice but obviously some of you all did!)

  87. DON’T WATCH MSNBC.

    As soon as the debate got over, I switched the TV off. I don’t need the pundits to tell me what I thought about the debate. I already know what I thoought of teh debate.

  88. It’s a little disturbing that AA’s have to denounce L Farakhan

    WTF

    HE IS A HATE DRIVEN TERRORIST SUPPORTER AND HEAD OF THE Nation of Islam

    and BO is his BUDDY

  89. I also hate David Wilhelm. BTW, he’s hip-deep in this Rezko business – he’s a big shot in the IL Governor’s campaign.

  90. the bottom line with all these pundits on cnn and msnbc is that they have already thought up their way to spin their answers so that it goes against hillary…she cannot win with them…if it is red, they will call it blue…they are not going to give her a break…

    time to go to hgtv…why get upset…

    just fight hill…don’t give them an inch…any satisfaction…no surrender…none…we fight on…

  91. i noticed that to exmattersvotehill

    i smiled ..and to that pic and his frankan that will keep voters
    thinking..and they come to there senses and say ohh we really dont know this guy bo.

  92. I love Begala, he practically has an I HEART Hillary shirt on and a big foam finger and when he speaks little hearts pop out from his head. Awww.

    Jamal Simmons is annoying.

  93. i think obama is pronouncing pakistan/afghanistan more as it would be said in native languages in those countries,

    Well, they say if you hang around with people long enough, you start to talk like them.

  94. Rezko jury selection begins Monday. Hillary wins TX, OH and RI on Tuesday. The trial will be well under way when
    Pennsylvannia, Guam, North Carolina, Indiana, West Virginia, Oregon, Kentucky, Montana, South Dakota and Puerto Rico all vote.

  95. she hit it out of the ballpark when she said her supporters were bankrolling her campaign.

    Thank you EVERYBODY.

    Now tomorrow … everybody get with phones. PLEASE this is so important.

    Make 20 calls, come back here and tell about them.

    ADMIN: MAKE TOMORROW PHONE BANKING DAY…TELL ABOUT PHONE BANKING RESULTS AFTER EVERY 20 OR SO CALLS.

    some obamabot has made over 900 calls today…don’t see how BUT we can match that tomorrow.

    She is fighting so hard and she has solutions for our country. Please keep fighting for her as she is for us.

    She shined tonight.

  96. Some Obamabots on the net are actually trying to spin that Hillary was accusing Obama of not being tough on anti-semitism!! Sheesh…

  97. Our short post was right on target. Hillary was debating Russert. He tried to screw her by asking a gotcha question on who was the successor to Putin and she pretended not to know the name by referring to “Putin’s successor”. When Russert went in for the kill by asking his “gotcha” question “can you name him” Hillary knew the name. Nicely done.

    Hillary crushed Obama.

  98. CNN ticker

    OVER 300 comments on “Clinton gets a little hot”
    ALMOST 300 on “I get the first question”

    FIVE on healthare

    47 on taxes

    this is who is electing Barack Obama

    gossip junkies and whiners

  99. btw…david wilhelm is another traitor…they will get their due…shame on all of them…lisa caputo is great…

    you wonder why the clintons even want to put themselves thru this agony when all these people aren’t even honest, fair or objective…

    the only four opinions i would respect are david gergen, pat buchanan, craig crawford and john mcclaughlin…they are not dems but they call it fair…

  100. You guy know the story about how Jesse’s wife caught him cheating and superglued his pee pee to his leg, right?

    No! But that’s awesome.

  101. “some obamabot has made over 900 calls today…don’t see how BUT we can match that tomorrow.”

    bull

    they all over state and lie like their boss

  102. idunn, the Obamabots are spinning it in a negative way…that it was an unfair attack…

    I agree Hillary was right on with this….I wish the pundits in the analysis would bring it up more as it was probably the most telling moment of the debate in regards to Obama

  103. I will make calls tomorrow evening. And, you are right – these 527’s and the negative stuff from BHO is not a “new kind of politics” – more like a “new kind of hypocrisy.”
    I’m on CNN now – so, when McCain uses BHO’s full name, Stinky is suddenly ashamed of it?

  104. admin, it was obvious to everyone that Tim Russert was biased towards Obama especially after the SNL skit last saturday.

  105. Yeah, they accidentally played that one….right. How dare they bring up her tax papers without asking about his Exelon dealings or his state senate records, or Michelle’s thesis, or Rezko…..jeez.

  106. Obama will need to repudiate his church of 20 years – how is he going to do this? Hill would never attack him based on that – Repugs will have no problem doing so.

  107. I laughed at the question he got about being a liberal and then she was asked about Vladimir Putin’s “successor” and asked what his name was (which I love how she knew and smacked pumpkin-head with it).

  108. she can close the Gap on those delegates with a strong showing in Ohio and Texas. She can still show that she is a viable candidate.

    A lot depends on the GOTV now folks.

    I’m pleased that she fought off the gang rape and she came out looking even more presidential.

    Tim Russert hates her though, his bug eyes and all. He did his very best to trap her but she outfoxed him. That is why some men in media hate her..she is smarter than they are.

    I think tonight was a good night for her. Most people won’t watch afterdebate analysis .. especially MSNBC cause they saw she was totally “hit” on.

  109. I assume it was obvious to the average viewer that this debate was more of a gang up on Hillary than a debate. I’d like to see how their ratings were after the first hour. I can’t imagine anyone but polijunkies staying tuned for very long.

  110. They don’t get laid, they live with their parents and vegge off of them while HOPING to get laid. The obama people here in town certainly don’t, they are stinky hippy kids.

  111. Rotf Idunn!

    That’s like drive through phonebanking though. “Hello, I’m with the Obama campaign vote for him because he rulez and Hillary droolz” click “Hello, I’m with the Obama campaign, please vote for him please please please please please” click “hello, I’m with the Obama campaign. vote”

  112. DivaB – I don’t know. It seems so patently unfair. Well, last time our Hill was ganged up on – was NEW HAMPSHIRE!

  113. NBC News’ Andrea Mitchell –Hillary ‘came across very credibly, very strongly as a fighter.’ [MSNBC post-debate analysis, 2/26/08]

    NBC News’ Domenico Montaro – ‘That was a solid body blow by Clinton on Obama not holding a single hearing on Afghanistan.’ “That was a solid body blow by Clinton on Obama not holding a single hearing on Afghanistan despite that he talks about it being the front line on terrorism and that he chairs the subcommittee on Europe, which oversees NATO. While Obama’s explanation may be realistic — that he became chair at the beginning of his campaign — doesn’t it reinforce Hillary and Bill Clinton’s points that he is inexperienced, that he has only been in the Senate for a limited time and hasn’t cut his teeth yet. Doesn’t that play right into the inexperience narrative quite well?” [MSNBC First Read, 2/26/08]

    ABC News’ Rick Klein – ‘It does seem like Clinton has settled on an effective tone this evening.’ “That silly distraction of an SNL reference aside — it does seem like Clinton has settled on an effective tone this evening. She’s mixing substance with style, attacking without seeming overtly negative, sounding like she’s playing defense when she’s really playing offense.” [ABC News Political Radar, 2/26/08]

    The Swamp’s Jason George – ‘Clinton strikes a new strong note, saying she plans to get $55 billion back from special interest groups for the American middle class.’ [Chicago Tribune’s The Swamp, 2/26/08]

    NBC News’ David Gregory said Hillary’s ‘answer on having to be a fighter on health care is her strong suit.’ “Senator Clinton the fighter. This answer on having to be a fighter on health care is her strong suit. Her point in lampooning Obama’s high-flying oratory is to say, I, too, had only the highest ideals about public service in Washington. But I know through experience, you need different tactics. This is her experience argument.” [MSNBC First Read, 2/26/08]

    MyDD’s Todd Beeton – Hillary’s ‘I’m a fighter’ line was ‘one of her best selling points.’ “Hillary Clinton: “I’m a fighter.” One of her best selling points, especially against Obama.” [MyDD.com, 2/26/08]

    Ohio Daily Blog – ‘Clinton did well with Russert’s question about her 2000 pledge about creating jobs in Buffalo.’ [Ohio Daily Blog, 2/26/08]

    WCPO Radio’s Dan Walthrip – ‘Hillary Clinton certainly claimed ownership of the word ‘universal’ in terms of healthcare.’ [WKYC post-debate analysis, 2/26/08]

  114. well, rumor or truth, I don’t care one way, I just didn’t want that image in my mind!

    Here’s a better one: what kind of face do you imagine Bambi might make when he’s throwing a hand party?

    ::shudders as I type::

  115. I thought the guy that got “glued” to himself was Gov. Doug Wilder

    LOL! Actually, it was Pete Decker, a big shot from Norfolk, Va. (and my former lawyer).

    I just like to stick the story on any guy that pisses me off!

  116. If there is one thing I wish Hillary had done tonight, it’s that she should have pointed out clearer that there was no one from her campaign that sent drudge that photo!

    She could(should) have turned it around, rather than sounding apologetic, and ask why dems listens to that site, and for what reasons should we be up in a fuss about that photo, there is nothing wrong with it. (although he kind of looks like osama without a beard)

    She should have said she has worn the custom clothes of many nations, it’s polite!

    oh well, good night all.

  117. Just got in from a debate watch party.

    I am pissed. Im so angry. What a horrible debate. Could they be more biased? what a bunch of assholes.

    Still… I have hope. I think Hillary held her own. She continues to amaze. Barack continues to disgust me.

    I am going to do everything I can to get this woman elected president. If she is not successful, I am going to do everything I can to continue to support her and her ideas.

    America is so much better because of the ideas that she presented as a candidate and for that I am grateful

  118. Ronald, Hilalry did amazingly well given that she faced a biased panel especially Tim Russert who was openly campaigning for Obama.

  119. Idunn, I wish you a good nights sleep, (even tho you just deprived me of one, thank you very much!!! you ¤%!##) 🙂

  120. Same here Ronald
    Hillary is ready and able on day one
    BHO will still be looking for Axelrod to change his diaper on day one
    America cannot afford another experiment

  121. Thanks Mei

    you are AMAZING

    and THANK YOU ADMIN for a GREAT PLACE to BE FOR US…it is VERY hard out there, but Hillary scored BIG POINTS tonight

    even IF the media trys to spin this now, MOST people will see it for the gang rape they TRIED to do and tune them OUT

  122. Even Pat’s turned against us.

    Ooh, that reminds me…did ya’ll hear that Pats wife glued his pee pee to his leg? 😯

  123. i think hillary was clever to encourage the national audience to go to her website to contribute. surprized obama did copy that!

  124. mj, It doesn’t matter. We all know the media despises her. One more pundit in Obama’s court is hardly worth worrying about.

  125. Maybe that’s what happened to KO – wrong parts glued?

    No, his wife did a Lorena Bobbitt on him and tossed it out into the weeds somewhere, never to be found.

    That’s why he’s so….androgenous.

  126. Pat must have been nudged by someone over at MSNBarack, its blasphemy to say anything bad about Brak/ Anything good about Clinton there. I thnk she held her own, some some new attacks out there that people will talk about, and raised the Health Issue to the head of the ship, she wins on that. OH/TX HERE WE COME!

  127. You know why the media keeps going after her they know she is strong
    ps My jewish friend just called me, obama was not strong enough
    what they wanted to hear was I BHO reject his endorsement
    thats the word in jewish circles

  128. Informed in Illinois Says:

    February 26th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
    “Sea change” indeed! MUCH different to have a woman in the White House vs. another man.

    No Kidding!!!!!! Of course the media spent a year trying to tell voters that wasn’t true.

  129. I know but the more people who endorse her now and especially to the Obama audience the better. She also explained why and that her being first lady is important because she has knowledge of how the whitehouse works

  130. I am even more pumped tonight
    I dont think this thing is over by a long shot
    How about we do something crazy and go and donate tonight

  131. From HILLARY’S WEBSITE:

    blog.hillaryclinton.com/

    NBC News’ Andrea Mitchell –Hillary ‘came across very credibly, very strongly as a fighter.’ [MSNBC post-debate analysis, 2/26/08]

    NBC News’ Domenico Montaro – ‘That was a solid body blow by Clinton on Obama not holding a single hearing on Afghanistan.’ “That was a solid body blow by Clinton on Obama not holding a single hearing on Afghanistan despite that he talks about it being the front line on terrorism and that he chairs the subcommittee on Europe, which oversees NATO. While Obama’s explanation may be realistic — that he became chair at the beginning of his campaign — doesn’t it reinforce Hillary and Bill Clinton’s points that he is inexperienced, that he has only been in the Senate for a limited time and hasn’t cut his teeth yet. Doesn’t that play right into the inexperience narrative quite well?” [MSNBC First Read, 2/26/08]

    ABC News’ Rick Klein – ‘It does seem like Clinton has settled on an effective tone this evening.’ “That silly distraction of an SNL reference aside — it does seem like Clinton has settled on an effective tone this evening. She’s mixing substance with style, attacking without seeming overtly negative, sounding like she’s playing defense when she’s really playing offense.” [ABC News Political Radar, 2/26/08]

    The Swamp’s Jason George – ‘Clinton strikes a new strong note, saying she plans to get $55 billion back from special interest groups for the American middle class.’ [Chicago Tribune’s The Swamp, 2/26/08]

    NBC News’ David Gregory said Hillary’s ‘answer on having to be a fighter on health care is her strong suit.’ “Senator Clinton the fighter. This answer on having to be a fighter on health care is her strong suit. Her point in lampooning Obama’s high-flying oratory is to say, I, too, had only the highest ideals about public service in Washington. But I know through experience, you need different tactics. This is her experience argument.” [MSNBC First Read, 2/26/08]

    MyDD’s Todd Beeton – Hillary’s ‘I’m a fighter’ line was ‘one of her best selling points.’ “Hillary Clinton: “I’m a fighter.” One of her best selling points, especially against Obama.” [MyDD.com, 2/26/08]

    Ohio Daily Blog – ‘Clinton did well with Russert’s question about her 2000 pledge about creating jobs in Buffalo.’ [Ohio Daily Blog, 2/26/08]

    WCPO Radio’s Dan Walthrip – ‘Hillary Clinton certainly claimed ownership of the word ‘universal’ in terms of healthcare.’ [WKYC post-debate analysis, 2/26/08]

  132. chaz356 Says:

    February 26th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
    You know why the media keeps going after her they know she is strong
    ps My jewish friend just called me, obama was not strong enough
    what they wanted to hear was I BHO reject his endorsement
    thats the word in jewish circles

    Of course that is what they wanted to hear. It’s completely reasonable. Just like gay americans wanted him to reject the support of those anti-gay singers. See, did you here what Obama said? I denounce his “comments”. Then, “i denounce and reject”. The comments, Senator, or the endorsement?

  133. WHY ON EARTH is it a “racist remark” to use Obama’s MIDDLE NAME?

    Because he’s black and it’s his middle name.

    Honestly Spacegirl, sometimes I think you just have NO sensitivity when it comes to my people. 😉

  134. At this point, I don’t believe poll. in the SUSA poll, they sampled 27% latinos. what if hillary can turn out 40% latinos? she will win.

  135. Did yall see the picture that Kimmel did last night?

    they pulled out from the real picture, to sho Obama as if he were holding a plastic jack-o-lantern bucket and was at a halloween party. Pirates, ghosts and stuff in the background all photoshopped it

    FUNNY AS S***

  136. Tonight, Senator Clinton demonstrated why she has the momentum in Ohio and Texas. There was only one Commander in Chief on that stage and there was only one candidate offering the solutions to our biggest challenges.

    Senator Obama threw his best punches but was outmatched by Senator Clinton’s wisdom and outgunned by her experience.

    Senator Clinton argued for solutions like truly universal health care, ending the war in Iraq safely and responsibly, and restoring the economy for hardworking families.

    Senator Obama offered words and those words were changing by the minute.

    Senator Obama had to be pushed to reject the endorsement of anti-Semitic minister Farrakhan.

    Senator Obama promised to accept public financing but is now waffling.

    Senator Obama continues to mislead about Hillary’s positions on health care and NAFTA.

    Senator Clinton is offering the solutions Ohioans and Americans need.

    Senator Obama is offering words Ohioans and Americans can’t trust.

  137. Obama – tough? I don’t think so…..Mr. “Can’t-I-just-vote-present”…. Mr. “pleeeze buy me a house, Uncle Tony”….. Mr. “Mayor, pleeeeaase put your best goons on my campaign”…. Mr. “Michelle wants me to be president!”

  138. I want to be black with a best friend who is the leader of the US nation of islam with the middle name hussein so I can get a pass on everything and be president

  139. Did anyone watch The Colbert Report? It was funny. He was talking about Hussein Obama’s picture and kept on saying “Hussein” and “terrorist”.

  140. i did see the kimmel pic… cracked me up!!!

    omg! this biased bitch is back on msnbc!!! cant stand her… michelle bernard. prez if the independent women’s voice and she is in total support of barak! traitor and liar!!! “only white women vote for hillary clinton. african americans vote for barak. but it isnt based on race.” PUHLEEEZ!

  141. Imagine how much better we would be if people voted with their heads and not their behinds
    BHO is not in Hillarys league he is not even in Mike gravels league
    the guy is a joke

  142. mj “Then, “i denounce and reject”. The comments, Senator, or the endorsement?”

    i caught that too, and I wish hillary had clarified was he was actually saying

    he is a WEEZLE

    ut the bottom line on that whole thing is that he HESITATED and MADE EXCUSES FOR…and American will see that

    this is STILL a touchy issue with Americans. Moms and Dads who pay the bills for the bombababies

  143. oops that link pointed at my comment. just scroll up, they don’t have any way to point at her article otherwise ( I think).

  144. Wel, I’d say this: All great wars are lost in the middle.

    Hill did well, but not enough in my estimation to turn the tide.
    If you want to attack the media in general and MSNBC in particular – and heaven knows they deserve it – then do it 100%. Same goes for Obama. Don’t get caught in-between, hitting him one minute, playing nice the next.

    That said, I wanted only to ask what everyone thought if we lose Tx but win Ohio.

    Not what should happen (Hill MUST stay in), but what you think Hill will do, in light of President Clinton saying she must win both.

    Lastly, didn’t Obama make a major blunder there at the end when he talked about his “inaction” in the Shiavo affair?
    You won’t hear that on the MSNBC postgame – but Hill should highlight it in coming days.

  145. “only white women vote for hillary clinton. african americans vote for barak. but it isnt based on race.””

    ok…so, is she implying AA women are STUPID?

    HOW DARE SHE!

  146. lols over at national review ‘the corner’ – i never read normally but thought id see what the other side was thinking. just posting the few things i agree with of course

    Is this a debate or a roast? [Andy McCarthy]
    If Fox did this to Hil, the Left would go ballistic. But this is their hometown channel.

    The Questions Obama Gets [Kathryn Jean Lopez]
    From a friend: “Russert’s question to him aren’t gotcha, but, ‘Hey, the witch said your mother wears combat boots. What say you?’

    I Never Thought I’d Say This, But … [Kathryn Jean Lopez]
    … I may be angry on behalf of Hillary Clinton. This debate is starting out with Clinton on the defense. Obama bettter get treated like she is.

  147. So….lemme get this right…Ed REndell can come out and make a STATEMENT that “there are some americans who may still have a hard time voting for an AA man for President” and that is racist or biggoted, and he has to CLARIFY

    and then “only white women vote for hillary clinton. african americans vote for barak. but it isnt based on race.””

    Gets a PASS?

    ok
    Obama the RACE DIVIDER throug his surrogates

    this is dangerous, this game he and the media are playing

  148. Ohio poll Clinton 51% Obama 40%

    I keep hearing all these Media Whores claiming that Bambi has the momentum and the polls are closing.

    I’m not seeing it.

    I think the crucial aspect will be the Latino turnout in Texas.

  149. “That said, I wanted only to ask what everyone thought if we lose Tx but win Ohio.”

    What are you talking about…Hillary is going to win Tx and Ohio

  150. Blue “Lastly, didn’t Obama make a major blunder there at the end when he talked about his “inaction” in the Shiavo affair?”

    yes, she should hammer this….INACTION is NOT AN OPTION in the presidency

    like voting PRESENT

  151. DivaBunny

    Loved pic of your house in snow…my last one was 1928…(is yours Craftsman?)

    What I really wrote about was to laugh at KarmaBites getting her bit of what comes (or doesn’t) around, is now going around. Heheheh.

  152. WTF spacegirlart, who said that, because they are leaving out Asian americans, Latinos (the largest minority group), and what about women that are African american? Who was this?

  153. Hillary will win both
    People watch tarrant county which is ft worth and surrounding areas
    Hillary signs are everywhere in peoples yards
    Early voting is going great
    I am so confident of TX thats why I am not paying attention to polls
    On the ground Hillary is very visible

  154. Space,
    I was frankly stunned he said it. He phrased his ineptitude perfectly.

    Dedfg,
    What am I talking about? I’m asking a question. You’ll note the word “if” the 2nd time if you try.

    You’ll also note the recent Tx polls, which are unfortunately more fluid (and moving in the opposite direction from what we want) than OH.

  155. @bluedem: i’m with you… i thought she needed to hit him harder. this was not a debate. it was an all out gang rape.

    i liked when she forced him to denounce the farakhan endorsement. she showed that she’s a fighter and that he’s weak. awesome moment for me.

    as far as losing tx… i say she feels things out and looks at the margins… theres an article on huffpo/off the bus that heavily alludes to florida and michigan being counted.

    i really think if the margins are slim, she stays. neither can get to 2025 anyway, so i do think she should drop out, esp in light of rezco starting on monday.

  156. Hawk

    # divabunny Says:
    February 26th, 2008 at 11:39 pm

    i did see the kimmel pic… cracked me up!!!

    omg! this biased bitch is back on msnbc!!! cant stand her… michelle bernard. prez if the independent women’s voice and she is in total support of barak! traitor and liar!!! “only white women vote for hillary clinton. african americans vote for barak. but it isnt based on race.” PUHLEEEZ!

  157. The last time i checked 10 of us who voted for Hillary here in tx at 10am last saturday were AA men and their aa spouses
    so its not just white women

  158. So…I’m going to finish this glass of tea, put my fanny to bed and get up in the morning to call call call.

    AND write some letters.

  159. @emjay: thank you! its a 1925 craftsman bungalow that we restored… dont you love ’em??? this was mine before i got married… now with hubby we’re quickly outgowing it, so we bought a lot and are building this summer… it absolutley breaks my heart to think of moving!!!! i refuse to sell… we’re going to keep it and rent it out. i love it too much to sell.

  160. He did nothing about Terry Shiavo. His record is mostly INACTION… what do folks think he is going to do when faced with a tough, controversial decision? Stay home? Vote present? Press the wrong button?

    And as for lobbyists, the BHO campaign may have kept lobbyists off the donor roster, but he and the lobbyists both work for the same bosses: Excelon and Maytag in Illinois and who knows who else on the national scene.

    And, we all know what he did about the committee on Foreign Affairs – he took the assignment to fluff up his thin resume, knowing that he wouldn’t have time to do the people’s work. What an irresponsible phoney! He should have said, “No – someone else should take this on so the people’s important work will get done.”

  161. Informed, when he said, “sometimes inaction is worse than action” I thought, well lord have mercy! FINALLY he admits one of his faults.

  162. diva,

    “so i do think she should drop out”

    Ok, so I’m going to take the leap and assume you meant

    “Not drop out” 🙂

  163. Once again, our girl showed true grace under fire! Tim Russert, that big box headed idiot, ought to be finally tired of beating up on that woman. It’s a travesty. But, she handled herself well. I’m now going to start calling her, “The Closer” because her last two comments tonight were A-W-E-S-O-M-E. BHO even xeroxed her comments from last week and tried to offer up some love, but it was very weak. Hillary is the truth!

  164. SUGAR : “BHO even xeroxed her comments from last week and tried to offer up some love, but it was very weak.”

    here here

  165. Idunn – well, I guess “not to decide is to decide.”

    Conscious indecision. Yep…he’s got that down to a friggin science.

  166. “He did nothing about Terry Shiavo. His record is mostly INACTION… what do folks think he is going to do when faced with a tough, controversial decision? Stay home? Vote present? Press the wrong button?”

    Exactly, Obama is a person who represents INACTION. He is not experienced enough yet to even begin to know what to do in a crisis. Look at him in the debates, the men have to treat him great with kid’s gloves so as not to embarass him.

  167. Well, this is (unrelated to the debate but) interesting for the general.

    “The filmmaker who won an Academy Award Sunday night for best documentary is next turning his attention to the Jack Abramoff scandal, including GOP presidential candidate John McCain’s role in investigating the affair.
    Alex Gibney, who made last year’s “Taxi to the Dark Side,” about the lethal interrogation of an Afghan taxicab driver by American military forces, told Politico his Abramoff film would be coming out later this year. Its tentative title: “Casino Jack and the United States of Money.”

    “The film should give viewers a greater understanding, in a blow-by-blow way, of how the political process works, particularly with regards to lobbying,” Gibney says. “This movie will have it all: wild international intrigue, money changing hands in unexpected places, etc. It will be fun. As someone said about an earlier picture I made: ‘It’s a comedy that turns into farce and ends up in horror.'”
    McCain “of course” comes up in the film, adds Gibney, who has “put the word out” to the Arizona senator’s presidential campaign for comment. “He certainly plays a role — he ran the [Abramoff] hearings, so he’s unavoidably involved in the story. Then the questioning extends. Upon further investigation, one looks at his motives and things like that. I don’t want to say much more than that, but he is a character in the story.”
    The McCain campaign has not returned a call requesting comment.”

  168. diva “its a 1925 craftsman bungalow that we restored…”

    WHAAAAAAAA. I’m SO jealous.

    there is one up the street from me that is in all the bungalow pubs

    the “house at the end of the road”

    1925 was built by a circus family

    it’s mine…fo a million dollars

  169. sorry divabunny, I knew you were talking about a pundit who said it. But thanks for clearing it up again.

    I wish there was a edit button on these comments as I usually am typing fast

  170. I mean, good gawd, it was almost word for word what she’d said last week. From the honor, it’s all about the american people and all of that. He is such a phony. The reason why he did that was because he can not think on his feet!! I think I recall hearing that George W Bush goes to bed like 8 or 9pm, well even with all of that sleep, he can’t get anything right. BHO must have to hit the sack at 5pm if he were given the keys to this kingdom!

  171. Yeah, if local coverage goes fairly, Hillary cleared up a lot of bs being spread about her by b.o., like Nafta(she mentioned David Gergen on cnn), and with healthcare, 16 minutes on an issue she wins no matter what. This was an excellent debate. Barack Obama cannot win. I can’t afford him. This country cannot afford it. So if Hillary is cheated out of our nomination by the DNC or RNC or the chicago circus, I am going to be livid. I am going to campaign for McCain if necessary. When B.o. loses the nom, when we seat FLA and MI, I am going to donate heavily to his primary opponent and his republican senate opponent.

  172. She is the best – no question about it. But is she able to score any points by this debate and the previous one – honestly, I don’t think so. Those who made their minds about voting for her are not going to change it. But independants – will go to him. So her chance is: to grab more democrats. TX looks particulary troubling.

  173. @bluedem:
    i am typo’ing my a** off tonite… i DEF dont think she should drop out. ppl keep saying that if she loses either, that she’ll receive pressure to quit. ppl keep repeating the line that bill said abt hillary needing to win both tx & oh, that if he said that, then it means she quits if she loses either.

    do you think he was just trying to light a fire under ppl’s asses that believe in her, to get them out there to help the campaign? if she doesnt quit, he can easily say. “its her campaign…”

  174. Thanks for the info. Diva, I’m going to contact her and the rest of her staff right now and I’ll throw in a few lines that I’m sure they might want to say to her as well. You know how there are some things you always want to say to your boss, but it might not be such a good idea? lol I’ll fix her foolish ass.

  175. johnflint1985: I guess I just don’t see what you are seeing. The general public sees that Obama was treated gingerly by the commentators that tells them he is weak.

    I know that would influence me to vote for Hillary.

  176. Thought she did exceptional with tonight’s debate. Talked right over Brian Williams and Tim Russert (except for commercial break). And how about all the clips of her. And the “mistaken Ccp” that was to be Obama? Whatever. Think the point she wanted to make about rejecting Farrakhan – was as much about his 20-year association with Jeremiah Wright, but I think she sensed the crowd wouldn’t agree, and there would have been boos. So glad she finally said that it was easy for him to give a speech denouncing the war, when he didn’t have to actually cast a vote – bingo. Just donated another $42.44 to campaign. As a Texan, think the fact that Texas is open primary means that stupid Republicans are crossing over just like they’ve done consistently. Makes me FURIOUS! Trying like hell to do all I can to talk sense into every person I encounter if they are ho-hum. Way to go Hillary! Keep fighting! Fighter! Fighter! Fighter!

  177. I have no idea, John. And truthfully, unless you can see into the future, neither do you.

    But what I find VERY interesting is that most of your posts seem to give a one liner compliment to HRC, and then a 10 sentence gloom and doom prediction about her chances to win the nom.

    So I’ll ask you outright: Are you just a generally negative kinda guy, or do you have an agenda?

  178. I think this debate doesn’t change much. It shows the still ever-present bias against Hillary at GE and NBC, and it showed us still that BO copies all of HRC’s stuff. Big surprise? No. He is not original. Hillary was up against Tim Russert, Brian Williams interrupting her, the idiot next to her, the msnbc fools, and obamabots….she is amazing. She is an inspiration to us all, and this shows that that woman can withstand anything, she is a fighter, let’s fight. Let’s win. Electability is the thing to stress.

  179. dedfg
    True. But will it turn the tide substantially enough? Wiht the amount of bad news about him it is unlikely. WE need huge amount of negative info to break him. So far it is very little. So his strategy – just to hold on. Her’s is to turn the table. Did she do it – I am not sure.

  180. You know something else we need to keep in mind, John, is that at this point, she is also making her plea to the Superdelegates and I think hands down she proved herself the more worthy candidate tonight. Obama is not ready for this job and the things she mentioned about foreign relations in her next to last comment tonight were spot on. Obama couldn’t begin to top her there.

  181. I got an e-mail from McCain today asking me to donate and become a McCainiac. I almost did it, then I started humming bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb iran too myself and backed off. Obama may just push me over the edge one of these days.

  182. Sugar: “You know how there are some things you always want to say to your boss, but it might not be such a good idea?”

    LOL! have you been reading my mind at work?

  183. That wasn’t what I asked you, John.

    But…I need to get some sleep, so I’ll just let you spread the gloom and doom to those foolish enough to eat it up.

    Nite folks.

  184. I would have liked to see a debate where Obama gets asked the question first and then Hillary corrects him. The last few debates have had Hill going first and Obama being all “I feel the same way, but I’m superior”. He’s had no accountability.

    Like nearly everyone in the news media, the three of us are totally in the tank for Senator Obama

  185. Diva,
    “do you think he was just trying to light a fire under ppl’s asses that believe in her, to get them out there to help the campaign?”

    That’s exactly what he was doing. Creating the immediacy.
    As best I can piece it together, and there was some pre-game commentary on this tonight I heard (somewhere, can’t remember), it looks like the campaign could be preparing to win one of TX/OH and perhaps RI.

    To me, the upcoming formula is quite simple (at least until someone explains to me why she MUST pack it in when her opponent can’t reach the magic delegate number), and that formula is this:

    Take one of two and a giant Fuck You.

    That goes to the media, and to all the miserable democrats
    like Brazille & Wilhem & Dodd

  186. I am going to donate to McCain if b.o. steals this nom; I will never donate to the RNC, and I am a dem for life, but not on november 4th, 2008 if he is our nom. I am even on the University Democrats Executive Board, and I have told them I will not campaign for barack obama. I will not. If I am asked to, I will resign. I will campaign for Tom Harkin, his wife endorsed Hillary. I will never again campaign for Chet Culver or Dave Loebsack. They betrayed the Democratic party for a fake democrat. I will vote for McCain, whom I loathe (not as much as b.o.) or Nader, whom I loathe more than McCain but less than b.o.

  187. i think what she said abt her iraq vote was directed at john edwards…. he and elizabeth have teamed up with the anti-war groups earlier this week. these groups are backing barry, so i’m really worried we may see an endorsement by edwards for barry…. i think she hammers the healthcare thing and now her war vote to speak to edwards and other SDs.

    if she was thinking abt getting out of this race, she would NOT have said that abt iraq! the pundits have been hammering her for not being apologetic abt her vote on iraq… well, for all of the peeps that were siding with him bc of that one issue…. ???? whatcha gonna do now???

    p/s i’m rewatching this “thing” and he is even worse the sedond time i watch this thing!!!

  188. I’m really close to being able to vote for McCain if BO’s the nominee. REALLY close. I suspect I’ll be there by November. A few things hold me back, but the more I look into it, the more I realize that McCain is pretty moderate, which is why the crazy right wingers dislike him.

    I really want our troops in Iraq safe. I don’t know if I trust Obama with that.

  189. What did Gergen say?

    And where do you people find the Holy Water that you walk on?
    I gotta get some

    That anyone who tries to make realistic judgements as it relates to strategizing or even just talking about campaign issues is somehow traitorous is a fucking republican Bush tactic.

    How about knocking that shit off for the duration of this campaign, which hopefully means until DENVER!

  190. Tiny Dancer, think of it this way, 4 years of McCain for 8 of HRC and ZERO of barack obama. She is only 60, she would be 64. McCain would be like 77.

    Though I think HRC is our nom, hopefully dems come home to the electable candidate, and the right candidate.

  191. With my prior post in mind, Tiny Dancer, repeatedly saying you want to vote for John McCain makes me think you’re on the wrong website.

    Please!

  192. MJ,

    “blue, it’s on facthub. Everyone knows Hill opposed NAFTA as FL.”

    As do I. Why are you telling me this?

  193. DivaBunny

    I want, I NEED, to try out my double entendr again…did it make anyone laugh?

    ++++++++++++++

    What I really wrote about was to laugh at KarmaBites getting her bit of what comes (or doesn’t) around, is now going around.

  194. Great, now I’m getting called out? WTF?

    I’ve never stated I would vote for McCain, always said I’d write Hill in, just saying that I MIGHT get pushed over the edge to vote for him against Obama.

  195. I think that Clinton did well. Anyone watching would see that she is the smarter, better prepared canidated. Also, the fact that Timmy tried to get her with asking her the name of the Russian canidate and asking her the tough Russian question first would be seemed as grossly unfair by the average person. In addition, I would think that she won more points on being smart.

    However, most people, even the obamabots acknowledge that she is smart and yet they are still not voting for her. I do feel that most people have made up their minds but perhaps there are about 6-9% of undecides left and some younger women who want to vote for Hillary but may have got swept up with going with the ‘popular guy’.

    I think that her firm stance on UHC and just her command of the issues will allow her to hold her woman edge. The think is to get some of those women back who moved over to OBAMA.

    In additon, she has to get some of the younger Latinos who have mo ed over to Obambi.

    Regarding the Texas polls, I do agree that they are close however, I do not believe that he has gained that mush Latino support. I don’t think that he could have cut into her lead within a week.

    The thing to watch is if she can hold on to the popular vote in TX even if she loses the delegates and hold on to OH. IMO, margins doesn’t mattter if she wins right now. A win is a win. This is enough for her to continue.

  196. BlueDem “To me, the upcoming formula is quite simple (at least until someone explains to me why she MUST pack it in when her opponent can’t reach the magic delegate number), and that formula is this:

    Take one of two and a giant Fuck You.

    That goes to the media, and to all the miserable democrats
    like Brazille & Wilhem & Dodd”

    XOXOXO

  197. Oh, oh, is that what Gergen said? Got it, Thanks.

    He’d said that the other day too, made it quite clear she was privately & emphatically against.

  198. @mj: at the end, russert asked both of them if they had a vote that they could do differently, what would it be? barry said terry schiavo and hillary said that she wishes she could redo the iraq vote. tim pushed her on it and she said emphatically that she would not have cast the vote to go to war.

    it was HUGE for her… tweety even said that, so you know it was a big deal!

    @sugar: you go!!! i’m going to email them tomorrow! she’s an idiot! i’m also going to email someone at msnbc too…i am so sick of seeing her on there as a commentator!

  199. Farrakhan..concerns of people lotts on greta wire there blogging on the ellen thing..go help hillary if ya want

    gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/02/26/ask-that-tough-question-that-mainstream-media-just-wont-ask/#comment-553938

    use ht tp only

  200. Tiny, that’s great! Meet you in nov. If this is close, let’s all agree to storm the gates for Hill.

    Hawk, sweetie, I missed you to. The first thing I thought of when I saw the SNL faux debate was you. They xeroxed your idea. Heh.

    Sugar, love ya. Give that woman hell.

  201. SpaceGirl,
    That’s why I thought the question (I think it was Diva) raised before about President Clinton’s intentions in saying TX/OH or bust was telling.
    Was it to juice up voters or an emphatic statement of their intentions?
    I think it was clearly the former, and again their smart enough to keep the big freakin’ picture in mind, and not give the dems & the media (and the repubs) what they want.

    Just look at the other side, you practically had Romney re-entering yesterday, and he still might.

    Too much at stake here. Way too much.

  202. @emjay: i totally got that!!! every since i read abt him and karmabites on page six, i cant watch his show without thinking that he’s bad in the sack! can you believe she started an entire blog abt it??? that killed me and the thing abt “karma” was peeeeerrrrfect!

    page six/richard johnson HATES keith! they just did a horrible story on him last month abt an interview in playboy…

    i always wondered if karmabites could have possibly been someone that cheney put out there to start that, whether it was true or not that he was a “quickfire”…. ya never know???

  203. OK…either i am old or tired, or both…i am losing following this thread tonite

    What Gergan said, What mj said….

    TD…so jealous…they stole my chance as a delegate
    but I will be in Denver just to see Hill hold at LEAST half the deck. She’s not going to throw in the towel for this gang, and she has a VERY stong hand to play on the plank issues if she is not the nominee. Like UNIVERSAL health care, for starters

  204. tiny: Great, now I’m getting called out? WTF?

    No, we love you here…we know what you are saying…Obama was so arrogant to presume that Hillary supporters would move to him.

  205. Yep dedfg, Tiny, don’t worry. He did say he would get HRC’s voters, but not the other way around, I disagree, and polling in Wisconsin and elsewhere show that more of HRC’s voters would support McCain then his would when she wins.

  206. Craig Crawford has a great point:

    Tonight they do such an unusual thing on American Idol – they let the voters decide who wins. That is NOT how it works in the Democratic presidential nomination race, where the news media decides who wins before the voters have had their say. Which is why I’ll be watching “American Idol” on Fox. Still, our Trailmixers are welcome to offer their thoughts in Comments.

  207. I still fully plan on voting for Hillary in November, regardless of who’s on the ticket. 🙂 But I could get pissed off enough to cast an anti-Obama vote.

    Thanks dedfg! 😀

    SpaceGirl – I’m just a precint delegate, so I have to go Caucus again in May. Not looking forward to it, but I gotta represent! 😀

  208. TV Alert

    Is on Charlie Rose now

    A Memo to the new president from Europe

    Not too kind to BO it feels like…

    Includes my hero John Burns.

  209. I’m totally game for Denver. At the very least I’ll hang out outside ready to protest if need be. I’ll burn a bra!

  210. Comment by Ros Hawkes
    February 27th, 2008 at 12:04 am

    Senator Clinton

    Would you consider moving to Australia and become our next Prime Minister if you lose. Good luck and a lot of Australians are hoping you will be the next President

    from Gretablog
    LOL

    That’s where I will be

  211. seems that they love bill clinton. theyre saying that america is 100yrs behind england. one guys cant believe how well america is able to reinvent itself…. i think i’m caught up now…

    omg… america is madonna!!!

  212. Orlando Sentinel has a great piece entitled,
    “Media has shameful double standard on coverage of Hillary Clinton.”

    And he’s a republican.

  213. Comment by Ros Hawkes
    February 27th, 2008 at 12:04 am

    Senator Clinton

    Would you consider moving to Australia and become our next Prime Minister if you lose. Good luck and a lot of Australians are hoping you will be the next President

    I ABSOLUTELY WANT to be there

  214. SpacegirlArt Says:

    February 27th, 2008 at 12:42 am
    Comment by Ros Hawkes
    February 27th, 2008 at 12:04 am

    Senator Clinton

    Would you consider moving to Australia and become our next Prime Minister if you lose. Good luck and a lot of Australians are hoping you will be the next President

    from Gretablog
    LOL

    That’s where I will be
    mee to..spacegirl..
    ‘i think people realize what he said tonight about that frannkan guy…he blinked so many times and they could tel he was lying..peopleare getting scred of him with that pic too..someone at my work seen it on tv and said shit no im not voting for him..
    and luntz group all foor Hill
    things are turning..just they way he smirks tonight and thinks hes unstoppable there gonna stop him by the weekend i wish so much..

  215. Haha, no one could name a single BO accomplishment,
    asked at Hannity’s behest.

    Take 1 of 2, the giant FU, let the repubs go to work on Obama, and keep grinding this guy down!

  216. NOW…we go too “who would play BO in a movie of his life story”

    GIMME A BREAK

    not in the focus group
    but another story

    this guy is SO FULL OF HIMSELF

    HILLS LIFE a MUCH better movie! LOL

  217. this is the result of direct exposure of the candidates to voters, versus disingenous talking heads constantly pimping for him.

    BTW, did anyone mention Hill’s line about getting BO another pilliow?

    that was great!

  218. blue: BTW, did anyone mention Hill’s line about getting BO another pilliow?

    I thought that was just from the SNL skit!

  219. His life story??? LOL!

    When BO loses the nomination do you think Oprah will find a television
    show for him to host….you know like Dr. Phil?

  220. dedfg,
    Yeah, best I remember it, she said something like the 1st question always being her’s reminded her of the SNL skit.

    Then she said to Russert orWilliams or both,
    “I thought you were going to ask Barack if he wanted another pillow”

  221. DivaBun

    John Burns was in Iraq for all of the war until December as Iraq bureau chief for the NYT…is now promoted to London bureau chief. Was in the Middle East for years before 1991.

    Forget the british historian’s last name, first name is Alistar. Met him in Melbourne 35 years ago

    Tim Ash used to teach and research at Oxford. I was at the Baud Library,
    but never met him.

  222. It’s disgusting that conservatives and republicans are the ones defending Hillary on FOX NEWS! He’s like the male version of Jasmine!

  223. I bet after the debate tonight, fox news saw how the commentators treated Obama. They might be rethinking their strategy and are doing damage control for the repub

  224. ok gang…off to bed after i wake up the dog to taker her out

    thanks for being here. I felt AWFUL all day…you guys,AND hillary, made that mood change!

    XOXOXO

  225. At one point in the debate, bambi claims that he would not tolerate anit-Semitism. If that’s the case, wouldn’t he need to denounce/reject his mentor and pastor Jeremiah Wright, along with his church? Wright has praised Farrakhan with gems like this: “He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest,” Wright said. “Minister Farrakhan will be remembered as one of the 20th and 21st century giants of the African-American religious experience.” and this: “His integrity and honesty have secured him a place in history as one of the nation’s most powerful critics,” he continued. “His love for Africa and African-American people has made him an unforgettable force, a catalyst for change and a religious leader who is sincere about his faith and his purpose.”

    His continued relationship with his pastor and church indicates he’s been tolerant of this support of Farrakhan and his ideals.

  226. Someone should tell these inbred hicks in Texas both Clintons have written best-selling books.
    ** This story is about Pres. Clinton being sidelined, intentionally.
    This is just what BO & BM want.
    It is a complete and utter mistake to have the Babe Ruth of politics on your side and keep him handcuffed, just because the media wants to beat up on him. Think back to when this race was far closer, Big Dawg was knocking the shit out of Obama on a daily basis, BO was rattled & complaining like a baby – and Hill was winning primaries!
    Besides, if the point of the story is BC cost Hill all the AA votes, then they’re gone and fuck it. the biggest weapon in American politics and we’re not using him!

    from the NYT:
    An equally troublesome matter, Ms. Walker said, was a $5 million loan Mrs. Clinton made to her campaign to keep it afloat before the coast-to-coast nominating contests on Feb. 5.
    “Where did that come from?” she asked. “A lot of people in this area who thought she was for the working middle class, and the poor are wondering about that. That’s a lot of money. That really hurt her in this area.”
    “That $5 million came out of nowhere,” Ms. Walker added. “I think even more than her husband that will cause her to lose. The people here are poor, but they’re not stupid.”

  227. Blue Democrat:

    Do you have a link to the article you just quoted?

    And just FYI, all of the inbred hicks here in Texas are in the republican party.

  228. Blue Democrat, what is your point from that quote in NYT? Are you saying that Hillary is losing votes because of that loan?

  229. bambi sure does consort with some highly divisive people. what is it they say about the company that you keep…

    yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2008/02/barak-obama-and-his-mentor-jeremiah.html
    illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2008/01/obama-feels-the.html
    h t t p://w w w.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59887

  230. bambi sure does associate himself with some mighty divisive people. what is it they say about the company that you keep?

    yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2008/02/barak-obama-and-his-mentor-jeremiah.html
    illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2008/01/obama-feels-the.html
    w w w.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59887

  231. TPS,

    That’s what they’re saying – which is mind-boggling to me.
    I hadn’t even heard that mentioned anywhere in the weeks since she loaned the camp $, and I wonder about it’s veracity, how it made it into the story.
    I’m far more upset about how President Clinton is being mitigated.

    Levon,
    It’s the NY Times,Wed’s.

  232. Blue Democrat and TPS:

    I’d say that she’s GAINED many more votes because of that loan. That’s what kick-started her boon in online fund-raising this month. That money has undoubtedly helped gain her many votes.

  233. TPS,

    How about I highlight what I want?

    Really sick of posters telling me what I can and cannot post.
    Admin never weighed in on this and I’ve had it with certain people here acting high and mighty.

    You don’t like it – scan past it!

  234. Blue Democrat,

    here is what you said in your previous post:

    “TPS,

    That’s what they’re saying – which is mind-boggling to me.
    I hadn’t even heard that mentioned anywhere in the weeks since she loaned the camp $, and I wonder about it’s veracity, how it made it into the story.”

    You said you wondered about its veracity and implied that you were unhappy with it. So, my advise to you is to dismiss it and ignore it. What is the point is dwelling on something that you state that you are clearly unhappy with? And your response is that you will post what you want and then attack me? That makes no sense.

  235. No TPS,
    Your advice was to, “dismiss it and don’t give it any validity by highlighting it” which is NUTS because it’s already in the New York Times and millions will read it. So my posting it doesn’t give it “validity”.

    I wasn’t “dwelling” on it, I mentioned it ONCE because it surprised me – and it’s (at least a little) problematic Texas, which people might want to know.

    And yes, I’m fed up with advice from Fran & SpaceGirl & now you, when all I do is try to gather relevant (to the campaign, perhaps not to you!) information to post, discuss, formulate with, etc.
    Like I said, you don’t like it, slide past it.

    Don’t advise me on what to post again.

  236. OK, I’m up early, too much rain and wind here in Fl. Sorry I had to miss this with you all, had to put the little one to sleep. Looks like it was a good ‘debate’ for Hillary.

    My overall take is that Hillary looked like a president, while BO looked like an assistant to a cabinet member.

    Remember though, most Americans can’t handle detail, nuance, specifics, accountability, long-term thinking, intelligence. Its the wrapping they respond to, the structure, not the content. So, Hillary has an uphill battle, this is the country that elected Bush 43 twice (well once)! So, its not surprising they are looking at BO as a blank slate, and projecting all these things on to him, and he encourages it.

    And, as several pundits predict, most of these people will be sadly and profoundly disappointed when this projection hits reality. He will not last a Rip attack, he will most certainly lose his cool and lose the election, should he be the nominee. This is what I hope some people in Ohio and TX see, there is a reason why Rips are supporting him, they know he can be beat.

  237. Also, I might add, that in a way, Russert did her a kind of a favor, by being tough and making her look all that more presidential.

  238. Psymac:

    People take what they want out of debates. All of the analysis in the world by the best debate judges won’t change that.

    As for me, I think Hillary’s passionate performance tonight might make some people realize that she really does care about our country and decide that’s what they want in their next president. There’s not a whole lot of detail or intelligence necessary to understand that. Just an emotional connection.

  239. from that same poll;

    This is a tracking poll, meaning we will be able to update the results each night as we complete another round of polling.

    As of Tuesday at 10 p.m., Sen. Hillary Clinton had 46-percent of the Democratic vote, Sen,. Barack Obama had 43-percent, and 11-percent of Democrats were undecided. Because this poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 4.4-percent, this race is too close to call, and it is impossible to say which candidate is ahead.

    About 15-percent of the registered voters reached by our polling team said they have already voted early. Of the Democrats in that group, 50-percent say they voted for Clinton, and 50-percent say they voted for Obama.

    Belo Texas Poll

    Click here for the complete
    11 News Belo Texas Poll

    Among self-described white voters, Clinton holds an 11-point lead, 49 to 38 percent. She is also ahead among Hispanics, 63 to 30 percent. Among African Americans, Obama holds a commanding lead: 72 to 17 percent.

  240. FROM LEHRER NEWS HOUR:

    JIM LEHRER: Rick, finally, before we go, is there that much action in Texas on the Republican side between McCain and Huckabee, anything going on?

    RICK DUNHAM: There’s not a lot …

    But a lot of people in the middle are going to vote in the Democratic primary, either because they want to end Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign once and for all or some of them actually will be voting for Barack Obama.

    But I think a lot of Republicans will decide that the Republican nomination fight is over and they want to do what they can to defeat Hillary Clinton while they have a chance.

    JIM LEHRER: But it’s a good point for the record that this is an open primary.

    w*w.pbs.org/newshour/bb/white_house/jan-june08/texas_02-26.html

  241. Blue Democrat, I find your original post and angry responses quite interesting. You posted a quote from a NY Times article (which is not a front page article) from literally the last paragraph of that article.

    Here are some other quotes from that article which appear far above the one you chose to highlight:

    Keith Crabtree, a 47-year-old airport technician from Lancaster, said after listening to Mr. Clinton that he was still undecided about how he would vote in Tuesday’s primary. “He convinced me more than Obama did,” Mr. Crabtree said. “Obama says what he’s going to do, but he doesn’t say how he’s going to do it or how he’s going to pay for it.”

    Mr. Crabtree said he had no doubt that Mr. Clinton was an asset to Mrs. Clinton’s campaign. “He knows what it’s like,” he said. “He’s been there.”

    Shana Blank, 53, a social worker, said Mr. Clinton was a more effective advocate for Mrs. Clinton’s candidacy than she was. “I think he brought a really good message to Lancaster and explained a lot of the issues that I care about,” Ms. Blank said. “He’s probably better at it than she is. But he’s got a lot more practice.”

    You didn’t highlight these quotes. You chose to highlight Ms. Walker who calls herself a political independent and declares in the previous paragraph that she thinks Bill Clinton is a political liability because of what happened in 1998. This is by no means an undecided neutral independent and I am not sure any amount of campaigning will sway her. I don’t understand your arguement why this comment is problematic in Texas. You could as well have concluded from the two comments I posted above that things look positive for Hillary in Ohio. In fact, from the first quote (“Obama says what he’s going to do, but he doesn’t say how he’s going to do it or how he’s going to pay for it.”) one could have easily concluded that it is Obama who has a big problem in Ohio and Texas not Hillary.

    With you, I have seen a general pattern of highlighting negative pieces of information from articles on the web, in newspapers, and on blogs. Everytime, one of us raises a question, your usual response is that you are a realist suggesting somehow we are not. I don’t see how highlighting negative information whose veracity you yourself question from a single interviewee makes you a realist. Your current response is that you are gathering relevant information for the campaign to “post, discuss, and formulate”. What are we formulating here based on one negative quote from three quotes in a short NY Times article? Do you think the campaign would not have noticed this until you posted this here? All your posting such small unrepresentative negative pieces of information do is that they suck the positive energy out of this place.

    Well, if you are a realist then you will not only search for nuggets of negative information but also choose to exercise judgement on what is relevant and what is not relevant and what to highlight and what not to highlight. You will also post both the positive and negative quotes to provide a balanced picture. Instead, you chose to highlight only the negative information in this instance. That suggests that you may have a negative and defeatist outlook about this campaign even though you are a Hillary supporter. What I am suggesting to you instead is to be more optimistic and focus on the positive which is good for both you and us. We are after all a Hillary SUPPORT site where we do try to cheer up each other under the onslaught of negative coverage from the press.

    Here is what the admin posted a few threads earlier:

    admin Says:

    February 25th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
    Rigso, this is a Hillary SUPPORT site, not a defeatist convention.

    That is a very appropriate admonition for all of us.

  242. blue dem, i checked that poll on the link you provided in texas and it confirms every poll over the last week. texas is to close for comfort. im the as die hard as they come here but im nervous about texas. i hope the grassroots has generated enough money and boots on the ground to still win it. hillaryclinton.com made the money bar vanish plus the call barometer. i wish they keep those things up for a goal to shoot for and moral. it was great.

  243. I’d also point out many of them (MANY!) would have never even entered the dialogue on this board if I hadn’t found them.

    Now you can find them – or be uninformed. Whatever.
    Because I’m 100% done here.

    I’ve got enough aggravation with this fucking campaign!

  244. TPS,
    yeah, well half my post got cut off, which just figures…
    What I was saying was you can go back through many many threads here and find hundreds of posts, links, articles I posted, nearly all of which were “positive”.

    But I simply cannot stand the insinuations clearly made by you and others. You’re wrong.

    happy hunting.

  245. Joe Friday,

    Thanks for the Lehrer quote and cite re Republicans coming over to damage Hillary. I think we need to collect as much evidence of that as we can, from various locales, to show the Superdelegates later that Obama’s support is not legitimate.

  246. Obama’s church is being investigated by the IRS because of a speech Obama gave there that seemed like a campaign event:

    wcbstv.com/campaign08/barack.obama.irs.2.663504.html

  247. Obama raised funds for Islamic causes
    Speeches for Palestinian refugees called code for Israel’s destruction

    ——————————————————————————–
    Posted: February 25, 2008
    10:18 pm Eastern

    By Aaron Klein
    © 2008 WorldNetDaily

    JERUSALEM – Sen. Barack Obama has spoken at fundraisers for Palestinians living in what the United Nations terms refugee camps, WND has learned.

    Palestinians have long demanded the “right of return” for millions of “refugees,” a formula Israeli officials across the political spectrum warn is code for Israel’s destruction by flooding the Jewish state with millions of Muslim Arabs, thereby changing its demographics.

    In a conference call last month with Jewish and Israeli media aimed primarily at dispelling Internet reports he is anti-Israel, Obama stated “Palestinian refugees” belong in their own state and do not have a “literal” right of return to Israel.

    “We cannot move forward until there is some confidence that the Palestinians are able to provide the security apparatus that would prevent constant attacks against Israel from taking place,” continued Obama during the conference with Jewish journalists.

    But in the 1990s Obama was a speaker at events in Chicago’s large Palestinian immigrant community to raise funds for U.N. camps for the so-called Palestinian refugees.

    Ali Abunimah, a Chicago-based Palestinian-American activist and co-founder of Electronic Intifada, a pro-Palestinian online publication, recalls introducing Obama at one such event, a 1999 fundraiser for the Deheisha Palestinian camp in the West Bank.

    Abunimah is also a harsh critic of Israel and has protested outside pro-Israel events in the Chicago area.

    “I knew Barack Obama for many years as my state senator – when he used to attend events in the Palestinian community in Chicago all the time,” stated Abuminah during an interview last month with Democracy Now!, a nationally syndicated radio and television political program.

    “I remember personally introducing [Obama] onstage in 1999, when we had a major community fundraiser for the community center in Deheisha refugee camp in the occupied West Bank. And that’s just one example of how Barack Obama used to be very comfortable speaking up for and being associated with Palestinian rights and opposing the Israeli occupation,” Abunimah said.

    Abunimah also was recently quoted saying that until a few years ago, Obama was “quite frank that the U.S. needed to be more evenhanded, that it leaned too much toward Israel.”

    Abunimah noted Obama’s unusual stance toward Israel, commenting “these were the kind of statements I’d never heard from a U.S. politician who seemed like he was going somewhere, rather than at the end of his career.”

    ‘Critical of U.S. bias toward Israel’

    Abunimah previously described meeting with Obama at a fundraiser at the home of Columbia University professor Rashid Khalidi, reportedly a former PLO activist.

    “[Obama]came with his wife. That’s where I had a chance to really talk to him,” Abunimah recalled. “It was an intimate setting. He convinced me he was very aware of the issues [and] critical of U.S. bias toward Israel and lack of sensitivity to Arabs. … He was very supportive of U.S. pressure on Israel.

    According to quotes obtained by Gulf News, Abunimah recalled a 2004 meeting in a Chicago neighborhood while Obama was running for his Senate seat. Abunimah quoted Obama telling him “warmly” he was sorry that “I haven’t said more about Palestine right now, but we are in a tough primary race.”

    “I’m hoping when things calm down, I can be more up front,” Abunimah reportedly quoted the senator as saying.

    Abunimah said Obama urged him to “keep up the good work” at the Chicago Tribune, where Abunimah contributed guest columns that were highly critical of Israel.

    Obama’s campaign headquarters did not reply to an e-mail request seeking comment on his fundraising activities for Palestinians.

    Abunimah serves on the board of the Arab American Action Network, or AAAN, a controversial Arab group that mourns the establishment of Israel as a “catastrophe” and supports intense immigration reform, including providing driver’s licenses and education to illegal aliens.

    WND reported yesterday the Woods Fund, a Chicago-based nonprofit on which Obama served as a paid director alongside a confessed domestic terrorist, provided $75,000 in grants to the AAAN.

    The co-founder of AAAN is Columbia’s Khalidi, who held a 2000 fundraiser for Obama. Khalidi, a harsh critic of Israel, has made statements supportive of Palestinian terror and reportedly has worked on behalf of the PLO while it was involved in anti-Western terrorism and was labeled by the State Department as a terror group.

    ‘Very active’ terror apparatus

    Obama’s 1999 fundraising for the Palestinian Deheisha camp raised the eyebrows of one senior Israeli security official who was contacted yesterday for comment on the issue. The official, who was not aware of Obama’s fundraising, noted Deheisha, which is located near the city of Bethlehem, had a “very active” Palestinian terror apparatus in 1999, carrying out scores of deadly shootings against Israeli civilians that year.

    Two of the most deadly suicide bombings in 2002 also were planned from Deheisha, where the suicide bombers originated, said the security official. On one such bombing, in March of that year, 11 people were killed and over 50 injured, four critically when a Deheisha bomber detonated his explosives next to a group of Jewish women waiting with their baby carriages for their husbands to leave a nearby synagogue.

    The question of so-called Palestinian refugees is a sensitive one for supporters of Israel. All Israeli prime ministers have stated a final peace deal with the Palestinians cannot include the “return” of “refugees.”

    When Arab countries attacked the Jewish state after its creation in 1948, some 725,000 Arabs living within Israel’s borders fled or were flushed out when the Jewish state pushed back attacking Arab armies. Also at that time, about 820,000 Jews were expelled from Arab countries or fled following rampant persecution.

    While most Jewish refugees were absorbed by Israel and other countries, the majority of Palestinian Arabs have been maintained in 59 U.N.-run camps that do not seek to settle those Arabs elsewhere.

    There are currently about 4 million Arabs who claim Palestinian refugee status with the U.N., including children and grandchildren of the original fleeing Arabs; Arabs living full-time in Jordan; and Arabs who long ago emigrated throughout the Middle East and to the West.

    Other cases of worldwide refugees aided by the U.N. are handled through the international body’s High Commission for Refugees, which seeks to settle the refugees quickly, usually in countries other than those from which they fled.

    The U.N. created a special agency – the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, or UNRWA – specifically to handle registered Palestinian refugees. It’s the only refugee case handled by the U.N. in which the declared refugees are housed and maintained in camps for generations instead of facilitating the refugees’ resettlement elsewhere.

    The U.N. officially restricts the definition of refugee status worldwide for nationalities outside the Palestinian arena to those who fled a country of nationality or habitual residence due to persecution, who are unable to return to their place of residence and who have not yet been resettled. Future generations of original refugees are not included in the U.N.’s definition of refugees.

    But the U.N. uses a different set of criteria only when defining a Palestinian refugee – allowing future generations to be considered refugees; terming as refugees those Arabs who have been resettled in other countries, such as hundreds of thousands in Jordan; removing the clause requiring persecution; and removing the clause requiring a refugee to be fleeing his or her “country of nationality or habitual residence.”

    Palestinian leaders, including Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, routinely refer to the “right of return,” claiming the declared right is mandated by the U.N. But the two U.N. resolutions dealing with the refugee issue recommend that Israel “achieve a just settlement” for the “refugee problem.” The resolutions, which are not binding, do not speak of any “right of return” and leave open the possibility of monetary compensation or other kinds of settlements.

    Obama worked with terrorist

    Obama’s advocacy on behalf of Palestinians comes after WND reported yesterday the presidential candidate served on the board of the Woods Fund alongside William C. Ayers, a member of the Weathermen terrorist group which sought to overthrow of the U.S. government and took responsibility for bombings against government buildings.

    Ayers, who still serves on the Woods Fund board, contributed $200 to Obama’s senatorial campaign fund and has served on panels with Obama at numerous public speaking engagements. Ayers admitted to involvement in the bombings of U.S. governmental buildings in the 1970s. He is a professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago.

    Ayers has boasted of his involvement with the Weathermen terror group’s bombings of the New York City Police headquarters in 1970, the Capitol in 1971 and the Pentagon in 1972.

    “I don’t regret setting bombs. I feel we didn’t do enough,” Ayers told the New York Times in an interview released Sept. 11, 2001

    “Everything was absolutely ideal on the day I bombed the Pentagon,” Ayers wrote in his memoirs, titled “Fugitive Days.” He continued with a disclaimer that he didn’t personally set the bombs, but his group set the explosives and planned the attack.

    A $200 campaign contribution is listed April 2, 2001, by the “Friends of Barack Obama” campaign fund. The two appeared as speakers together at several public events, including a 1997 University of Chicago panel entitled, “Should a child ever be called a ‘super predator?'” and another panel for the University of Illinois in April 2002, entitled, “Intellectuals: Who Needs Them?”

    The charges against Ayers were dropped in 1974 because of prosecutorial misconduct, including illegal surveillance.

    Ayers is married to another notorious Weathermen terrorist, Bernadine Dohrn, who also has served on panels with Obama. Dohrn was once on the FBI’s Top 10 Most Wanted List and was described by J. Edgar Hoover as the “most dangerous woman in America.” Ayers and Dohrn raised the son of Weathermen terrorist Kathy Boudin, who was serving a sentence for participating in a 1981 murder and robbery that left four people dead.

    Obama adviser wants talks with terrorists

    Last month WND quoted Israeli security officials who expressed “concern” about Robert Malley, an adviser to Obama who has advocated negotiations with Hamas and providing international assistance to the terrorist group.

    Malley, a principal Obama foreign policy adviser, has penned numerous opinion articles, many of them co-written with a former adviser to the late Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat, petitioning for dialogue with Hamas and blasting Israel for numerous policies he says harm the Palestinian cause.

    Malley also previously penned a well-circulated New York Review of Books piece largely blaming Israel for the collapse of the Israeli-Palestinian negotiations at Camp David in 2000 when Arafat turned down a Palestinian state in the West Bank, Gaza and eastern sections of Jerusalem and instead returned to the Middle East to launch an intifada, or terrorist campaign, against the Jewish state.

    Malley’s contentions have been strongly refuted by key participants at Camp David, including President Bill Clinton, then-Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and primary U.S. envoy to the Middle East Dennis Ross, all of whom squarely blamed Arafat’s refusal to make peace for the talks’ failure.

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=57341

  248. After tonight, I have even more respect for Hillary tonight than ever! She took on all those bastards at once and won! Perhaps not her best debate, performance wise, but on the substance she still has no equal.

    Somewhere out there, Ann is smiling.

  249. NY Times:
    20th Debate: Reality Show or a Spinoff?
    By ALESSANDRA STANLEY
    Everybody wanted to know which Hillary Rodham Clinton would show up to the Cleveland debate on Tuesday night. It turned out to be the Amy Poehler version.

    Mrs. Clinton wanted the world to understand that the press is tougher on her than on Barack Obama. And she made her case by citing a sketch on last week’s “Saturday Night Live” that showed mock debate moderators grilling her stand-in, Ms. Poehler, but fawning over the Obama character. “Well, can I just point out that in the last several debates, I seem to get the first question all the time,” Mrs. Clinton said. “I don’t mind, you know, I’ll be happy to field them. But I do find it curious. And if anybody saw ‘Saturday Night Live,’ maybe we should ask Barack if he’s comfortable and needs another pillow.” (The pillow was her own flourish; on the show, the actors playing journalists asked the faux Obama if he was comfortable.)

    And for the rest of the evening, the MSNBC debate did look a bit like the “S.N.L.” parody.

    Mr. Obama twice mispronounced Massachusetts (“Massatoosetts”), the state where he went to law school. Later, Tim Russert, a moderator, challenged Mrs. Clinton to name — and pronounce — President Vladimir V. Putin’s chosen successor in Russia.

    “Who will it be?” he asked. “Do you know his name?” She managed, gamely, referring to Dmitri A. Medvedev as “um, Med-medvedova, whatever.”

    Mrs. Clinton was under attack, but the toughest blows came not from Mr. Obama but from Mr. Russert, who fiercely questioned her about her past positions on Nafta, Iraq and even a campaign promise from 2000, in her first Senate run. But she was combative right back, and kept arguing, with ardor and sometimes anger, at times interrupting and overriding Mr. Obama’s words and even the moderators’. (At one point, Mr. Obama flashed the NBC newsmen a conspiratorial look, and complained that he was being “filibustered.”)

    When Mrs. Clinton insisted on adding to her remarks about Iraq when it was time for a break, the usually unflappable Brian Williams looked affronted. “Television does not stop,” he said sharply. “Can you hold that thought until we come back from a break?”

    Television is not biased, it’s relentless: one word (“front-runner”) can launch a thousand pictures. Because Mr. Obama now appears to have overtaken Mrs. Clinton in the polls, the clips on news shows match, all too literally, that narrative: reports show his huge rock concertlike rallies, not his more wilted moments after a debate or in between speeches, when the camera has caught him looking drained and speaking haltingly. And clips of Mrs. Clinton increasingly illustrate the tale of a campaign derailed.

    Debates give candidates a chance to break loose of YouTube-ification and speak for themselves at length. But the Ohio debate opened with clips of Mrs. Clinton in two starkly different moods that underscored expectations that she would display multiple personas: elegantly elegiac at the end of their last debate in Texas, then in “Fight Club” ire (“Meet me in Ohio”) over the weekend.

    Tuesday night, even fate seemed to support her point about the favoritism surrounding Mr. Obama: after the first break, MSNBC showed a second unflattering clip of Mrs. Clinton mocking Mr. Obama’s inspirational speeches, which to viewers, at least, might seem like the network was piling on. Mr. Williams sheepishly explained that the clip was shown in error and that his producers had intended to give Mr. Obama’s embarrassing video moments equal time. He then went on nevertheless to ask Mr. Obama to comment on Mrs. Clinton’s video, giving him yet another chance to show off his grace and even temper. “Well, I thought Senator Clinton showed some good humor there,” he said with a twinkle. “I would give her points for delivery.”

    Mrs. Clinton entered the room Tuesday night not as the underdog, but as a curiosity. Primed by cable newscasts, viewers were eager to witness the latest incarnation: Would she seem sensitive or sarcastic? Bountiful or brass-knuckled? Magisterial or just plain mad? Earlier in the day on MSNBC, when a Clinton supporter said the candidate should just be herself, the anchor, David Gregory, replied, “I don’t mean to be cynical about this, but which self?”

    Mrs. Clinton decided to fight back by playing herself as victim, referring to an “S.N.L.” skit that some viewers were more likely to have seen than any newscast, to argue that Mr. Obama is being coddled while she is being throttled. She pressed her point by complaining that she is usually asked to answer first. But had she gone second, she could just as easily have used that as evidence that her younger opponent gets preferential treatment — or an extra pillow — from the press.

  250. a must read…

    NY Times

    nytimes.com/2008/02/25/opinion/25kristol.html?em&ex=1204261200&en=b72f107eae0c77dc&ei=5070

  251. NY Times:
    20th Debate: Reality Show or a Spinoff?
    By ALESSANDRA STANLEY
    When Mrs. Clinton insisted on adding to her remarks about Iraq when it was time for a break, the usually unflappable Brian Williams looked affronted. “Television does not stop,” he said sharply. “Can you hold that thought until we come back from a break?”

    ——-
    But when they came back, she was NOT allowed to continue that thought. They started a whole new subject.
    ——–
    She pressed her point by complaining that she is usually asked to answer first. But had she gone second, she could just as easily have used that as evidence that her younger opponent gets preferential treatment — or an extra pillow — from the press.
    ——–
    Not true. What happens is that she gives a well-informed, detailed answer to the question. Then he piggy-backs with “I agree wtih Hillary” and goes into his usual stuff, which has nothing to do with the question.

  252. A great article by a Republican praising Hillary and criticizing the media coverage. So far the comment string is short and positive.

    h t t p : / / http://www.topix.net/forum/source/orlando-sentinel/TQBNG5870BTB0VJHI/p2#lastPost
    Shame on the media. In terms of grace, proposed programs, energy and enthusiasm, knowledge and abilities, and executive demeanor, Hillary Clinton can hold her own among any of the candidates in both parties — and she does so in high heels.

  253. h t t p : //boards.msn.com/MSNBCboards/thread.aspx?boardid=780&threadid=579227&BoardsParam=page%3d169%26HIPDelay%3d1%26PostID%3d15542428

    If anyone else is still up, here’s a good comment string with a lot about media bias and the unfairness of the debate questions.

  254. Morning all,Couldn’t watch last night so thanks for the play-by-play reporting. I’m (selectively) listening this morning and FOX is RIPPING BO for speaking at his church at a fundraiser AFTER he’d declared himself a candidate which, apparently, is ILLEGAL and IRS is now investigating the matter! (Explains why he was trying to get HRC’s IRS files released).
    Fox also bashing his Farrakhan connection and his inability to articulate a succunct logical response to national security questions.
    Ironic, isn’t it, that the DNC is suing McCain over public election finances while their golden boy is muddying the line between church and state funds. He’s accused of fundraising at a church!

  255. There is no liit to the hubris of Obams:

    But that clearly isn’t what she was talking about. For as she had argued in the Wisconsin speech, America’s illness goes far beyond a flawed political process: “Barack knows that at some level there’s a hole in our souls.” This was a variation of language she had used earlier on the campaign trail: “Barack Obama is the only person in this race who understands that, that before we can work on the problems, we have to fix our souls. Our souls are broken in this nation.”

    But they can be repaired. Indeed, she had said a couple of weeks before, in Los Angeles: “Barack Obama … is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed.”

    So we don’t have to work to improve our souls. Our broken souls can be fixed — by our voting for Barack Obama. We don’t have to fight or sacrifice to help our country. Our uninvolved and uninformed lives can be changed — by our choosing Barack Obama. America can become a nation to be proud of — by letting ourselves be led by Barack

  256. Hahahahaha.
    Fox showing a clip of HRC commenting that she always goes first in the debates and then going into the SNL skit material, asking if the moderators were going to offer BO another pillow.

  257. Morning all…been reading the overnights here and the links…thanks for all you guys (and gals!) do! The WorldNEtDaily piece on the company he keeps and his involvement with the darker side of the Palestinian restoration is VERY damning, IMO. There are JUST TOO MANY little threads with this guy that point to the “undesirable” side of his political equation.

    I cannot believe the Far-left of the DNC could either be SO EGOCENTRIC that they will do anything to wrestle the Party back from the more Centerist Clinton stance, or so STUPID to have chosen a blank slate for that task that IMO, is not so “blank” after all.

  258. And to substantiate that I am not one who “freaks out” about his ME connection entirely, I went to college in london that was 50% Arabic more or less. Persians were there in droves escaping the Iranian revolution and Iraqi’s & Saudi’s we “some of my best friends” to use a phrase. The Iraqi students were the MOST WONDERFUL PEOPLE. Soft, gentle, funny and brilliant. I have a college yearbook filled with great picture and great times. Fast forward to 3 wks after 9/11, when I was on a plane from Tampa to NYC to work the WTC attacks w/Red Cross. Weeks of sadness and weeks of anger while up there. Suspicions were everywhere at any ME male. On the return trip, after a LONG wait at LaGaurdia (sp) to fly out, NO SOONER than when the plane was airborne. The young, well dressed Arab man in the seat across the aisle got up and headed aft for the bathroom. For the next two minutes I sat, with my 11-y.o. seatmate, wondering if I was about to be blown out of the sky. It was an anger I had not felt perviously. That the BAD GUYS in the Arab world had, by their OWN ACTIONS, made me suspect of the very same people with whom I had had so much enjoyment and love.
    PERSONALLY, I feel that BO is courting the dark side of this population, and turning his back on those that would help to produce a better understanding in the “post 9/11” American view. THIS IS NOT the man I want as President of the US. EVEN IF, Hillary Clinton were not in the race.

  259. Is there any doubt now that Hillary is the clear choice as our 44th President,after last nights performance.We must not forget that there were almost 18 men and the MSM all trying to eliminate her from the first debate on.Well !! good ole boys ,look who is still standing and fighting for our country.The MEDIA MAGGOTS have been swarming around her ever since her first run for NY Senate seat.She will never drop out because she WILL WIN.BHO has reached his peak and great slide down begins next week.Between RZKO , FARAHKAND and PATRICK FITZGERALD the special prosecutor,This GAS BAG Balloon wil self destruct.Be patient people ,Nov 4th is a long way off The MAGGOTS will perish from hunger for KILL.I am 90 yrs old and I WILL live to see ,our NATIONAL TREASURE HILLARY ,Inaugurated.GIVE em’HELL HILLARY

  260. Do y’all think that anyone will wake up to the fact that this guy is a PRODUCT of the Kennedy/Kerry/Dean machine of the party and NOT, I repeat NOT, someone who woke up one day and believed in his soul he had a better solution for America?

    I can only hope. HC’s road to that awakening has been through a lifetime of involvement, not a sudden “ah Ha!” moment. She has worked and learned and sees, in reality, that America CAN BE a better place, and KNOWS the real way to get that done, besides being IN the trenches, where she was all her life. Should ANY person seeking the Presidency have scrutiny? You bet. It is not an earned right. But in that scrutiny the path for reason must be explored. Mr. Obama has not been down that path. Organizing for a few, or even hundreds, in a community does not meet the smell test for the path to the WH. Thanks Howard. Go back to being a doctor. You are a worthless politician.

  261. g’morning all! k… hubby and i have been watching morning joe and SHOCKINGLY they have been really fair… chuck todd even made a case for hc staying in the race if she loses tx and wins ohio, andrea mitchell defended her on foreign policy, lanny davis made the point abt how barry only made a speech abt the iraq war and joe reitereated the same point… she should have hammered that point a looooong time ago abt him saying that if he wouldve had to vote, he didnt know what he wouldve done…. ahem… this is what i and i a few others here have been saying is KILLING her… soooooo many people think he actually VOTED against the war, not just made a speech.

    that is a huge diff! she HAS to be more succint in making that point though… every time he says he opposed the concept, she has to nail him and hard! i’m really starting to see a shift from the media and i feel that there are several reasons she has to stay in whether she wins tx or not…

    1- rezco trial starts, and the media has alread started talking…

    2- his “followers” are young and have a short attention span, they are going to lose interest when the media stops glossing over everything. they have a crush right now and will wake up and start to see his flaws when theyve been (figuratively) dating for a few months….

    3- according the the huffpo article, he’s starting to shut the traveling media out. theyre going to be pissed when they realize he used them and isnt going to call them in the morning

    4- if she wins ohio, then the SDs have to look at the fact that he is not winning the states with high percentage of “working people”… if we dont win with them, then we lose the GE…

    do the math… she has to stay in and thats with LOSING texas!

  262. Blue Democrat Says:
    “But I simply cannot stand the insinuations clearly made by you and others. You’re wrong.”

    Really, isn’t it interesting that the few people who were on before TPS were complaining of the samething with you. You did stop…until we left the board for the night, and then started the negativity up again with other people.

    We see through you.

  263. Media has shameful double standard on coverage of Hillary Clinton
    Thomas V. DiBacco | Special To The Sentinel
    February 26, 2008
    Article tools
    E-mail Share
    Digg Del.icio.us Facebook Fark Google Newsvine Reddit Yahoo Print Reprints Post comment Text size: It’s shameful that the media over the past several months has not leveled the playing field in covering Hillary Clinton’s quest for the Democratic presidential nomination. Clinton’s every misstep has been highlighted, from staffing to campaign budgeting, and even when she has performed better than her opponent, Barack Obama, the thumbs-up from commentators goes to Obama.

    One example: the final debate before the Super Tuesday elections. By any reasonable yardstick, Clinton was the more articulate and knowledgeable about issues and legislation, some of which she had a hand in crafting during her seven years in the U.S. Senate. Yet pundits, with few exceptions, singled out Obama’s performance because Obama hammered his opponent’s voting in support of the Iraq war, no matter that he had the luxury at that time of not being a member of Congress.

    To be fair, my disclosures: I’m a Republican, and the last Democrat I voted for was Jimmy Carter in 1976. For more than 28 years in the nation’s capital, I served as a debate and election-night commentator for local TV and radio stations. I was not a fan of President Bill Clinton, although as a media analyst at his first inaugural, I was favorably impressed with his speech, as illustrated by my commentary for the Orlando Sentinel of Jan. 21, 1993. Throughout Bill Clinton’s eight years in the White House, I was critical of many of his actions, most notably his reprehensible conduct with a young intern that led to his impeachment trial. I didn’t give much thought to Hillary because she was the other half of Bill, often having to defend him.

    All that has changed as a result of this election season’s extensive coverage of campaign events, including debates, accompanied by an avalanche of broadcast spin. And what has concerned me is that Barack Obama is getting a free ride.

    Obama’s resume is thin — and that’s obvious when supporters have to talk about his record at law school, a strategy appropriate for first-year job seekers but scarcely for presidential candidates. His eight-year career in the Illinois Senate is lackluster, marred by voting “present” 129 times, thereby avoiding the difficult choice of “yes” or “no” on proposed legislation.

    Even his 70 percent vote margin in his 2004 U. S. Senate bid cries for a downgrade. He defeated a GOP nobody, perennial candidate for public office, Alan Keyes, who took over the candidacy after the real winner of the primary stepped aside as a result of a sex scandal.

    Obama’s speaking ability is exceptional only if the denominator of expectation is low. Shouting is scarcely an oratorical plus, nor are the “ands” and “uhs” that punctuate Obama’s often rambling extemporaneous remarks.

    Nor do campaign stops provide concise specifics about his proposals, more akin as they are to celebrity, touchy-feely, anything-I-say-is-OK performances. His safe-harbor, oratorical retreat (“and that’s why I’m running for president of the United States of America”) is overused and overvalued. As for Obama’s lifting sentences from other speakers, at a minimum that illustrates laziness.

    Comedian Chris Rock was right when he noted during a performance at Madison Square Garden last year that African-American comedians can criticize whites all they want, but the reverse is not tolerated. And that regrettable tendency has been applied to the presidential race.

    Bill Clinton’s criticism of Obama is a classic case in point. Not only did the former president have every right as a husband and obvious adviser to dig into Obama’s record (the media surely wasn’t doing that investigative job), but he was roundly denounced for raising the “race” issue. No matter that the 42nd president was the strongest advocate for African-Americans of any chief executive in recent history.

    Having tippytoed in terms of criticism of Obama because of his race, the media have lost sight of the special quality of women that makes Hillary Clinton what she is. Women are the nation’s caregivers — from childhood that nurturing trait has been stressed. And Hillary Clinton’s passionate pursuit of universal health care is in the best tradition of that quality, as illustrated by her poignant remarks near the close of last Thursday’s debate:

    “The hits I’ve taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country. . . . I resolved at a very young age that I’d been blessed, and that I was called by my faith and by my upbringing to do what I could to give others the same opportunities and blessings that I took for granted.”

    Shame on the media. In terms of grace, proposed programs, energy and enthusiasm, knowledge and abilities, and executive demeanor, Hillary Clinton can hold her own among any of the candidates in both parties — and she does so in high heels.

    Thomas V. DiBacco is professor emeritus at American University in Washington, D.C. He wrote this commentary for the Orlando Sentinel.

  264. I am a huge spporter of HC, however I am concerned that it is such a close race in TX. We should be 10+ points ahead. There is talk that there is little organization in TX and that the campaign as a whole has also lost focus. As I said I am a huge fan and support HC, but I am just being the devils advocate.

  265. “Shame on the media. In terms of grace, proposed programs, energy and enthusiasm, knowledge and abilities, and executive demeanor, Hillary Clinton can hold her own among any of the candidates in both parties — and she does so in high heels.”

    THIS is the VERY FIRST thing i read earlier thhis morning on Hillis44, and I was JUBILANT ! Bitch IS the new black, and I wear that moniker and those heels with pride! Right along side our 44th President!

  266. Everyone,
    My new mission is to contact as many super delegates as possible with proof that BO is waging a “Democrat for a Day” campaign against HRC and slandering her for releasing photos that have been public domain for over 2 years. I need as many email addy’s as possible or a link to the complete list of SD’s.
    BTW, isn’t it WEIRD as he11 that no one is allowed to say his ENTIRE name? WTF is that???? McCain APOLOGIZED for it being uttered at his rally yesterday. We are ALREADY BEING censored and BO is only a nominee!!!!! If that’s not scary, i don’t know what is. Please all, send SD info to hilaryhawke at mhcable dot com or post here.

  267. @jas: apparently he’s outspending 5-1 in tx… i think she stays in the race regardless of what happens in tex… once he got a grip on the AA vote, she had to realize that it would be impossible for her to win more delegates there due to the remnants of tom delay’s gerrymandering… even if she were to win the popular vote in tex, he would outperform in certain districts and end up with more delegates…

  268. mj: what that does is makes it real for us to understand why things are happening and that some of HC set backs could be some of her own doing, I am not trying to upset anyone, this is just something we need to think/talk about. I know HC is the for the job of president, and 8 months ago she was on top of the world. I just want to know how BO got up there with her.

  269. diva…give it time. It may be. It SEEMS that the media is doing the back stroke as fast as they can today away from the candidate they have been dating…because it is making THEM look like fools. The fact is, that their EGO’s are too big to tolerate THAT, even from the DNC machine.

    They will eat their own before they will support Elmer Gantry forever. The finger pointing, I hope, will remain…”THEY have treated Hillary this way” “NO, THEY have..we have been fair” “No…it’s THEM…we are upstanding journalists”

    No one wants to back a loser. And BHO IS a loser. No matter which way you slice it. We can only keep fanning thhat flame and hope their egos remain intact in this direction.

  270. SpaceGirl: ” It SEEMS that the media is doing the back stroke as fast as they can today away from the candidate they have been dating…because it is making THEM look like fools. ”

    You are so right, last night’s debate, made the media look like fools for ‘dating’ (love it) Obama. They saw that Hillary was the winner.

  271. @ JAS: “I know HC is the for the job of president, and 8 months ago she was on top of the world. I just want to know how BO got up there with her.”

    JAS…the same way we ended up in Iraq and have GW as the President. The media. Period.

    That is not to say that there was not a fabulous ground game all along. Mr. O’s surrogates started THAT back when Dean screamed, ad almost NO amount of planning nor strategy could have overtaken that. But IMO, that “grass roots” would have been not as effective had the BM not been solicited to help.
    HRC has beaten them all. We here now need to keep calling Texas and Ohio and RThode Island and Vermont and Penn. WE MUST stay on OUR game. We have the upper hand. We have the best candidate, and the media knows we know it.

  272. JAS: I think we should be discussing how Obama has grossly overspent the money he was given and the mismanagement of it.

  273. mj: it is not to help, but to make us think, talk about what is going on. It is so easy to blame BO and MSM (which I think is the biggest problem) but to understand talk with any logic we have to discuss all aspects of this campaign.

    Again mj, I do not want to upset anyone just wanted us to think-discuss and understand.

    You might be right it may not be a help to think-discuss and understand, but at least it would be out on the table.

  274. You know, there’s alot of negativity towards Texas right now, but the polls have been everywhere–showing her down with people who’ve already voted, up with people who’ve already voted, getting a 52-39 win with Hispanics, or getting one by a much larger margin, and more importantly, who knows what will happen with turnout? This whole thing REEKS of California to me–this state is so huge it’s extremely difficult to poll correctly and both HRC and BHO’s polling numbers rely so much on minority turnout–Hispanic and AA. I’m not buying any polls–including ones with Hillary leading–i’ll just buy the results we see on March 4th/5th. All we heard the entire week before CA is that “OBAMA HAS CLOSED THE GAP” “BARACK LEADS CALIFORNIA”. This was all based on bad polling and underestimation of Hispanic turnout for Hill.

    Ace Davis was amazing in CA–and he’s amazing in Texas. We have a strong ground operation and GOTV will be huge, especally in South Texas, where Hillary support is almost universal. The key is getting that support to the polls on March 4th. I have alot of optimism regarding Texas–this is a state that WILL deliver for Hillary. REmember guys–the Clintons don’t lose when they have to win. Bill wouldn’t be saying Hillary had to win Texas to stay in the race if it looked bad–the campaign knows what they are talking about, so does Bill, and they all believe a win is in the cards for Hill in TX.

  275. It’s simple and can be traced back to the Philly debate where she was savaged for 3 wks for her drivers license answer.

    This was where the obvious biased started for me and the media piling on. At the next debate, Bambi did the very same thing only worse and he was only mildly criticized for a day.

    Thee the media continued to pile on and on and on on Hillary. This started to affect the polls a bit. In addition, the SC debacle where the media and Bambi’s camp played the race card.

    These 2 combined forces, Hillary could do nothing about. Having said that, if these did not occur, I’m sure that she would be ahead.

    However, it is clear that hey did not play for after Super Tuesday, did not plan in the caucus states, had Patti Doyle who was inexperienced at best and did not take full use of volunteers and grass roots organizing as well as internet fundraising.

    Ok, there are the reasons. Having pointed them out doesn’t help her now so it’s useless to focus on as a question at this point.

    The focus should be on maintaining an adequate support system here, encouraging others to call and to donate.