California Super Debate With Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama

DEBATE TONIGHT.

The Democratic Debate will be on CNN at 8:00 p.m. (ET). The debate may also be seen on the internet HERE.

Last debate before Super Tuesday primaries.

The debate — sponsored by CNN, the Los Angeles Times and Politico — starts at 8 p.m. ET Thursday on CNN and CNN.com. CNN’s Wolf Blitzer is the moderator.

CNN “speculates” on what they will push to discuss:

The economy is likely to dominate Thursday’s debate, as both candidates look to appeal to supporters of Edwards and his brand of economic populism.

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Wolf introduces Hillary and BO.

Here we go.

Doyle McManus and Jeanne Cummings of L.A. Times and Politico will also ask questions. Wolf says there are no rules.

Obama opening statement: I want to acknowledge John Edwards who left this week. I also want to note when we started off there there 8 candidates. It is a testimony to the Democratic Party and this country that we are the two remaining. Hillary Clinton and I were friends before this campaign and we will be friends after. A defining moment in our history. Health care costs backbreaking. How do we take the country across the divisions. What is at stake is whether we are looking forward or backward.

Hillary opening statement: On January 20, 2009 the next president will be sworn in. I hope it is one of us. After the celebration there will be a stack of problems from Bush. Iraq, Economy, Health insurance, energy prices, global warming we must lead in and all the problems we know and the ones we can’t yet predict. We need a president ready on day 1. John and Elizabeth Edwards have led with personally. This discussion should be about priorities for America. We need a problem solver. Americans are ready for change and know there is nothing we can’t do if we put our minds to it.

Doyle: Most voters don’t see many differences on policy, what are they?

Clinton: The differences between us pale as between us and the Republicans. But we have big differences on healthcare. My plan like Edwards’ plan is universal. We need a moratorium on foreclosures and freeze interest rates. On foreign affairs we have to be realistic. There are threats. We should also be hopeful. But the president should not put the prestige of the U.S. by meeting with dictators in the first year.

Obama: Hillary mentioned some policy differences. On healthcare we are 95% similar. We have a policy difference. I think people don’t have health insurance because they can’t afford it. Senator Clinton has a different approach. She thinks we need to force people to buy it. She might have fines. On mortgage crisis I have not signed on to an interest rate moratorium.
———————-

We also have to reduce the influence of lobbyists in Washington.  On Iraq I was opposed to Iraq from the start.  The next president has to have judgment.  I want to elevate diplomacy.  I want to meet with Iran. 

Wolf: Those are 3 important issues.  We discuss them all.

Cummings: Most Democrats want full coverage.  Obama your plan is voluntary.  15 million left out.  Why is your plan superior. 

Obama: Every expert says anyone who wants healthcare can get it under my plan.  I dispute 15 million won’t get it.  I mandate coverage for all children.  Young people up to 25 years old can be covered by their parents.  Massachusetts mandated coverage but some people still cannot afford it.  What are you going to do about it? 

Clinton: This is the passionate cause of my public service.  I have designed a plan that lets those satisfied with their plan to keep it.  Those that don’t have insurance we will allow you the same plan as congress.  My plan covers everyone.  It provides subsidies and caps premiums.  It will be affordable.  It has been designed to be affordable.  There are people who do not have health care because they don’t want it.  I have shared responsibility.  Obama mandates insurance for children.  He thinks politically we can’t get a mandate for adults.  But if you don’t start by demanding universal health care, you’ll never get there.  John Edwards and I have plans that get us to universal coverage. 

Wolf: On mandates, we pay for the uninsured who go to emergency rooms?

Obama: Hillary’s plan does not provide sufficient subsidies.  I want to lower premiums not just cap them.  How do we get this plan done?  Ted Kennedy agrees I can get the plan passed.  I want to broadcast the negotiations on c-span.  I passed a plan in Illinois.

Wolf: Broadcast on c-span, is that a swipe at Senator Clinton?

Obama: I want they to make the argument in public. 

Wolf: Your plan was done in secret?

Clinton: I’m proud that my efforts resulted in the children’s health insurance program.  But I want to underscore 3 different points.  We need to regulate the insurance companies to make them cover everyone; make it clear they should be part of the solution but we pay for the research so Medicare must be able to negotiate prices; and finally we Democrats have to carry the banner of Universal Health care.  $300 million dollars attacked my plan in the 90s.  I have learned a lot about hot to get it done.  We need a coalition to pass healthcare, business, labor, doctors/nurses.  We can withstand the insurance company attacks. 

Doyle: Both of your plans cost a lot.  You’ll be called ‘tax and spend’.

Obama: Republicans can’t argue fiscal responsibility.  McCain wants to extend the Bush tax cuts.  We emphasize savings. 

————————–

We cut taxes for people who don’t need them. 

Wolf: Your plan costs $110 Billion.

Clinton: I pay for my health care tax credits ($55 billion) with repeal of Bush tax cuts.  The other $55 billion is from savings.  Bush has given billions to HMOs.  I would rein those in.  I have worked with Newt Gingrich on electronic health records which would save us $77 billion a year.  This can be put into chonic care management. 

Wolf: When the Bush tax cuts expire it will be a big tax increase?

Obama: The rich can pay more. 

Clinton: We will go back to the pre-Bush tax rates.  People did very well in those years.

Cummings: Immigration?  Immigration hurts the African-American community?

Obama: I was a community organizer with all races.  All are feeling economically insecure.  This was true before immigration shot up.  This is scapegoating.  We have to get control of our borders and crack down on employers.  We need a pathway to citizenship.  Immigration should not be a tactic to divide.

Doyle: Obama will give drivers licenses?

Clinton: Let’s be honest that there have been job losses.  I meet those that have lost jobs.  We need to bring our country together for a comprehensive solution.  This is in the interest of all.  Tight borders, crackdown on employers, help with community costs, jobs to the south.  The other side is living in another universe thinking they can get rid of immigrants. We need to get people out of the shadows.  A path to citizenship.  That way they will not be in a labor market that competes with people like Kim, only then should we consider drivers licenses.

Wolf: You said you are the only one with a humane policy?

Obama: I worked with Ted Kennedy and McCain to move this issue forward.  We need to show leadership on the issue.  The problems of workers are not caused by immigration. 

Wolf: but Clinton is inhumane?

Obama: Wolf you keep on asking?  There were those who were opposed, those who flipped.  We need comprehensive reform. 

Wolf: Clinton, were you missing in action?

Clinton: I co-sponsored immigration reform before Barack came to the Senate.  When the House of Representatives passed tough legislation I said this would criminalize Jesus Christ himself.  I got the United Farm Workers endorsement because I have been working on this issue.  It is a broken system.  Let’s fix it by bringing people together.  People are nervous about immigration.  People do ask the questions on immigration. 

Wolf: Why not then drivers licenses?

Clinton: I do not think it is appropriate.  It is also a diversion. 

Obama: Senator Clinton gave several answers on this issue.  This is a tough issue. 

Clinton: I have to correct the record.  We agree on comprehensive reform.  But a week after I gave my answer you had a tough time explaining yourself.  We need a united Democratic Party.

—————————————–

Doyle: Americans think Hillary is experienced?

Obama: Others think I have enough experience.  I was a community organizer, lawyer, etc.  I have the ability to get people together and talking straight to solve these problems.  I respect Senator Clinton’s record.  But the skills I have are the ones the president needs.

Wolf: What experience do you have?

Clinton: I have 35 years of experience.  After school I did not work for a law firm but for the Children’s Defense Fund.  I have worked on this all my life.  I ran projects in prisons, rural health care and experience in the profit, not-for-profit and public sector.  For 8 years I worked in the White House.  I took on the drug companies.  Foster care here in California.  When health care failed I went to work on child health care.  I worked across party lines.  I traveled to 82 countries like Macedonia and spoke for women’s rights in Beiging. 

Cummings: Is the country a large business and neither of you have business experience?

Clinton: The United States is much more than a business.  We have a president who ran as a business manager and that has not turned out well.

Obama: Romney has not done so well in management.

Doyle: The Kennedys say the country needs a new generation of leadership.

Clinton: I respect Ted and I have Bobby, Kerry and Townsend Kennedy supporting me.  We are going to get change.  Despite our supporters this is about the two of us.  Voters will determine who will be ready on day 1.  Who can withstand the other side of the aisle. This is about the American people.  Interest rates, education, health care, be proud of our country again.  In the 22 states voting on Tuesday, what are the criteria you are looking for?  Evaluate the 2 of us.  No one else will be on the ballot.  Who will be the best president?

Wolf: Many Americans remember the Clinton years fondly, should they?

Obama: We’re all Democrats.  I don’t want to diminish those 8 years.  Ultimately we have to be judged by ourselves.  We are bringing in a whole generation of new voters.  A new generation.  We shouldn’t settle.  Who can work the levels of power more effectively?  This is good news for Democrats.  This changes the electoral map.

Cummings: Obama mentioned the generational issue.  Clinton, you claim you will bring change but there is always a Bush or Clinton on the ballot?

Clinton: I regret deeply there is a Bush in the White House.  We are judged on our own merits.  It is a grueling process.  No one has an advantage.  I want to be judged on my merits.  I am proud of my husbands accomplishments.  It did take a Clinton to clean up after the first Bush and I think it will take another Clinton to clean up after a second Bush. 

—————————————-

Doyle: You’ve called for all troops out of Iraq.  Could this turn to an open ended engagement?

Clinton: I think all of them should be out in a year.  But we have to be careful.  Last fall I got into a back and forth with the Pentagon over plans.  On my first day I will ask for a plan for withdrawal.  It is not only taking our troops out.  There are over 100,000 other Americans working in Iraq.  Also, what about the Iraqis who helped us and worked for us.  We have to tell the Iraqi government they are out of time.  We know this president wants to leave over 130,000 troops when he is out of office.  I will get as many troops out as quickly as I can.  I hope to have nearly all of them out within a year. 

Obama: I will end this war.  No permanent bases.  McCain suggests we might be in Iraq a hundred years.  We are serious about his process.  Both of us will protect our embassies and protect Iraqis who worked for us and to have a strike force.  We have to be careful about mission creep.  I will offer a clear contrast against republicans on the war. 

Wolf: a clear swipe at you Senator Clinton? 

Clinton:  I am proud to have the support of Maxine Waters who is an original conventor of the “Out of Iraq” caucus.  This is treacherous terrain.  We need to send several messages.  The Iraqi government has to get serious; same message to the region such as Iran and Syria because they will be drawn in as we withdraw to sectarian violence.  The other point is that we need to prevent Bush from committing our country to a permanent presence in Iraq.  We will do every thing we can. 

Cummings: Judgment on Iraq?  You could have voted for the Levin Amendment?

Clinton: I believed we needed to put inspectors in.  And I have great respect for Senator Levin.  But that Amendment would subordinate our judgment to the U.N. Security Council.  I did vote with Senator Byrd to try to restrict the authority to one year.  Now we have to decide how to go forward.  McCain has accused me of “surrendering”.  We have to press our case.  But our nominee has to present a reasoned argument and cross the threashold of gravitas. 

Wolf: Petraus says there has been progress. 

Obama: I welcome the progress.  But we have set the bar low.  This has undermined our security.  It is much easier for the Democrat to argue I was against it from the beginning. 

————————

Wolf: Why can’t you say it was a mistake?

Clinton: I did a lot of research.  I believe in coersive diplomacy.  I thought the inspectors going in was a good idea.  What no one could have fully appreciated was how obsessed this president was about this mission.  But if I had been president we would not have been diverted from Afghanistan. I visited there and it will take everyone and a lot of effort.  We have to go into this campaign with the idea that we are strong as they are against terrorism and war.  What are we going to do going forward.  Force should be a last result.

Wolf: So you were naive and trusting of Bush?

Boos

Clinton: that is a good try Wolf.  I respect Senator Obama giving his speech against the war.  But then we voted the same.  There was a credible case for sending inspectors in.  Some people think this was a simple case.  There were legitimate concerns over what Hussein would do.

Obama: I don’t want to belabor this.  The legislation had the title to use military force in Iraq.  People understood this was a potential vote for war.  Senator Clinton makes the case that she is ready on day 1 and I think we have to be right on day 1.  It’s not a function of looking backwards but looking forward. 

———————————–

Doyle: Too much sex and violence from entertainment?

Obama: Parents are ultimately responsible but it is important to those in the industry to think about who they are marketing these things to.

Cummings: Clinton, your husband has set off firestorms in the way he has dealt with Obama.  If your campaign can’t control Bill now what about in the White House?

Clinton: This is my campaign.  I want the focus on the issues, the work I have done.  I am thrilled to have my husband and daughter helping me but at the end of the day I am the one on the ballot.  As we go forward it is a choice between the 2 of us.  It is a lonely job in the White House.  The President makes the decisions. 

Last Question:

Wolf: A Dream Ticket, the 2 of you?  Would you consider that?

Obama: There is a difference in (top billing).  It is too premature.  Part of what I want to do is restore a sense of what government can do.  People of independence, no more yes men or women.  People need a sense that government is on their side.  We are working for the American people. 

Wolf: Is the answer yes?

Obama: Hillary would be on everyone’s short list.

Clinton: This has been an extradordinary campaign.  There is a lot of intensity.  We will have a unified Democratic Party.  We will go into November prepared to win.  On Monday night I will have a town hall on Hallmark Channel.  For those who did not get there question answered watch the townhall. 

IT’S Over. 

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875 thoughts on “California Super Debate With Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama

  1. does anyone besidees me find it disheartening that cnn now is featuring two AA people going right into this debate…..screw them.

  2. looking at a speed video of how they put together the stage, looked like they had prepared 3 chairs behind a table, not counting edwards would drop out. So it’s interesting to see now what they have done

  3. Oh God! I’m just as nervous as if I was going to be on that stage. This must be nerve wrecking for Clinton and Obama. I hope Obama f*cks up big time!

  4. looks like they are going to be seated….not my idea of a debate…of course wolf trying to give wayyy too much credence to this

  5. oh well, hillary in the middle. look at obama trying to be nice, to make up bad coverage for a few days, holding back hillarys chair for her when sitting down, lol

  6. no rules…wtf?

    obama already pandering and stuttering….just tell edwards to bend over so you can kiss his ass

  7. lets see the difference now, when hillary speaks, whether obama will smile and clap as hillary is doing now when obama is speaking, she is graceful and classy!

  8. getting cut off by wolf…stuterring….oh god he is out of his league. Hillary looks calm and she knows she is going to kick his ass. he cannot get past his stump speech……he is in deep doodoo from the start

    Hillary Clinton looking straight into the voters eye, calm…like she is sitting behind the big desk already

  9. Imperative that we have a president starting on day one who can begin to tackle our problems and seize the opportunities that await. Grateful for service that John and Elizabeth have made, reminder that 37 millions Americans living below poverty line. What we have to do tonight is have discussion about what each beleives goal for America.

  10. 1) Healthcare, moral right to have universal healthcare similar to what JE put on before he exited; 2) Moratorium on foreclosures/freeze interest rates; 3) Approach to foreign affairs, be realistic and optimistic and start with realism.

  11. she mentioned john edwards but she did not do it in an asskissing way. je will appreciate that if he is a real man.

  12. Nice opening by hillary, as mentioned she seemd like a president sitting at the oval office!

    I think she looks nice, I think it looks ridiculous watching obama “writing” something down everything hillary speaks, distracting and makes him look like a rookie.

  13. crap, the stream from cnn went out, cant watch the opinion tracking, people who see it please post what it says!

    Looks like a pro obama crowd so far.

  14. 2Q: Cummings: Most Ds really do want full coverage, everyone covered, Obama under your plan which is volunatary, 15 million would not be covered. Why is yours superior to hers?

  15. Yes, hawk. Obama has an overzealous supporter in the audience. Perhaps they adapted him from the Ron Paul brigade.

  16. Hillary picked up her pen to obama when he stated the Iraq thing an the health care plan..I see a attack coming soon……..haha

  17. What the fuck is he talking about in terms of his health care plan. Does he know what he’s talking about????

  18. Said she doesn’t think his plan is universal because it isn’t politically wise, he makes an ugly face and raises his index finger indicating a rebuttal and shaking his head.

  19. she is laying this out quite welll….very understanding of this issue…bite the bullet….bambi is dying to jump in

  20. uh, uh, uh…. You can’t beat her Obama. Just move on and talk about something else like you plan for hope and change. Hah!

  21. I work in the Health Insurance industry…if you don’t mandate it…the cost won’t come down. Because of the pool…Obama’s plan benefit the Insurance companies.

  22. I still don’t understand what he’s talking about regarding healthcare. Now talking about Ted Kennedy and healthcare. WTF?

  23. who is the one person that is clapping for him in the audience.I know i seen singer brandy clapping for him with that bad wig on her head

  24. obama trying to lead ted kennedy into this….this will not help him at alll………got to have experts explain now

  25. Underscores 3 critical points: Regulate health insurance industry, no long deny coverage to anyone and compete in cost and quality; Make clear to drug companies, deserve to be a part of the solution, but give medicare right to negotiate drug prices; finally, important that as Democrats we carry the banner for universal healthcare. Industry is clever and well funded.

  26. her leaning into her chair lends a real conversation….he is too stiff and smirking…she is winning on healthcare no doubt about it. watch him smirk….

  27. It seems that Hill is doing quite well. Way to go!!! I can’t access the CNN link. Oh well, the folks here are giving me enough information anyway. Thanks a lot for you who give a running commentary. THANKS!!!

  28. here is the tracker edition.cnn.com/video/live/live.html?stream=stream1

    should be several windows at the right hand side, click on tracker

  29. to carbynew…i agree…and that is one reason why you see so many of us who do….support her. I would think that most parents would be sick of paying for their 25 year old “kids”. That is just pandering to the students who dont want to carry their own weight.

  30. He’s scared of healthcare. Synapses in his brain are firing at random, trying to find a way out of looking like an idiot.

  31. And now he is recounting the example Hillary always discusses: the disparity of the tax rate between Buffett and his secretary.

  32. Wolf has GOT TO BE KIDDING me with interrupting Hillary after a few minutes while allowing Obama to stutter for hours.

  33. why do they let him answer EVERY frickin question FIRST…..they are totally biased. however, this gives hillary a time to think and digest his answer

  34. Seriously guys, he has no specifics. This is a great debate for Hillary because he is talking about NOTHING. She has details.

  35. obama below 50 again, interesting to see that when hillary is speaking and haven’t reached her point yet, she is hovering around 60, and when obama is just speaking he is flat on 50.

    is this test group really independents? seems a bit weird, but we are just starting so… we’ll see

  36. look at it positivelly: she needs half the time to cogently cover twice as much ground…because he is so vaporous.

  37. if you go to the CNN website and watch the debate, you can also view the debate in “instant voter reaction” mode. You can watch focus group members’ tracking poll results, superimposed over the screen, as the candidates speak. Every time Hillary speaks, the “approval” meter climbs up, and when Obama speaks, it dips slightly. 😀

  38. Barack has been practicing. He’s stuttering but he’s reaching the crowd…not really answering some of the questions but sounding okay and reaching the crowd. Yuck. He sounds good….empty but they don’t see that.

    We’ve listen to Bush for years and it’s been like scratching on a chalkboard….can’t stand to listen to 4 years of more scratching with BO!

  39. I am a teacher and I can tell you Hillary is 100% better than Obama in educating and getting across her points effectively when she speaks.

  40. this is the drivers license question all over again, like in the other debate…
    dont talk to much, hillary…

  41. wow. I’m looking at the tracker on CNN and it just dipped substantially when Obama started speaking. 😀

  42. He gotta better applause regarding the immigration question, BUT she was much more specific and focused. Loftiness and empty rhetoric always gets applause.

  43. bring up ted kennedy…makes you look weak and like you got to hand it off to kennedy and durbin and others. he has no ideas, no real answers.

  44. the tracker resets on every question…and it resets at 50…he rarely gets above it for any long period…hrc seems to be steady at 70 with 80 spikes!

  45. trying to run away from the drivers license issue….lol he is stealing hillary talking point…he looks so phoney

  46. Don’t worry guys, she’s a trooper, long range planning, she’s building up, letting him making mistakes, she’ll come with a strong finish.

  47. Whoa, he got caught on this one — did you mean Hillary’s was inhumane? He really foubbed that one.

  48. Go Hillary! She’s getting passionate. Way to go pointing out the fact that Obama wasn’t even the senate when she was already passing legislation and working for immigrants! The tracker skyrocketed.

  49. omg ..get him stuerring hillary knock himout gawd ,i never understood a word yet from him..thats sad…terrible…for me..and the Country to elect this idiot

  50. u guys must go to politico and vote for the questions for obama! there is a wuestion on rezko on there-please vote for it

  51. bad ass obama, got bitch slapped back by hillary, countering him not being able to answer the driver lisence q either, good one hill

  52. When Barack attacked Hillary the tracker dropped. People are tired of this shit. Lets get to the issues. Glad they aren’t repeating the South Carolina debacle.

  53. There he goes again stuttering.

    Obama is pandering on the Driver License issue…did he forget about Gov. Grey Davis defeat in California over this issue…many Dems voted Republican over this.

  54. Experience/character coming up. Look for Barack to attack.

    Wolf might be interrupting Hillary more than Barack, but don’t be fooled. Wolf is giving Barack a pretty hard time pushing back on him.

  55. interesting, when obama attacked hillary not answering the driver lisence thing, he stayed even on the tracker, when hillary responded the tracker went up, face it obama, when it comes to having balls and standing up, and or attack, she is much bigger and better!

  56. That last hit on Obama was perfect – she slapped him down on the license debate thing (he had a hard time answering, too), but did it with softness and grace, not nasty. Pivoted immediately to unity.

    PERFECT!

  57. how many asses did obama kiss in that hour….Hillary showed respect for them but that she will accept their nod but won’t kiss ass to get it. she is her own candidate and she shines.

  58. Hi all…checking in…she conveys such competence and confidence…she is so centered….could you be more proud!

    …and let’s be honest….he rambles on and on…and the ego is on full display

  59. Psymac Says:

    January 31st, 2008 at 8:51 pm
    Is that tracker on the internet stream guys, I don’t see it on CNN.com live.

    did u get it..the regular cnn site..go to the right see the windows it says video its the 3rd window d deate real time there ya go

  60. Interesting, you can hear the audio feed on the real-time reaction when CNN goes to commercial. Just announced for everyone to take their seats, coming back from commercial.

  61. Hopefully this makes up edwards’ mind for Hillary because he is thinking about which will be up to fighting the ripublicans, and he won’t.

  62. I’m glad Obama is controlling his ego because they really need to learn how to work together. I agree that I have a feeling he might be VP now. They dislike each other but they have to admit that they are a winning ticket and we need to get the Democrats back in the White House.

  63. I DON’T want obama as vp, and I can list a 100 reasons why hillary’s camp don’t want him either, but I won’t get to that now,

    But in the past she has cut his knees off, would look strange to choose him later as vp.

    And obama would never be able to restrict himselvf to second place, he would try to outshine her.

  64. She is solid gold, and so is her resume.

    He talks so much about his experience as a community organizer. How long? What did he accomplish?

  65. she is knocking this out of the park….god, I had no clue she was THIS good,.

    she is telling the voters this is about them….they can choose who they want…regardless of endorsements

  66. Mitt also sold off many of the companies he bought at fire sale prices, for the immediate ROE

    the result was hundreds of people thrown out of jobs, with little, or no notice.

  67. He’s rambling again. God. He acts like he’s giving a fucking sermon on Sunday morning.

  68. I’ll take that back, Wolf set up a trap and Obama fell into it. Clinton got more done then this no going to meeting, voting neophyte every did.

  69. this format did not allow him to use his game plan of going on the attack and being more forceful. Harder to attack forcefully while sitting next to the person who is smiling at you.

  70. GO HILLARY! That was a great answer to why another Clinton should be in office again!!!!

  71. hahaha, wonderful, takes a clinton to clean up after a bush!!! biggest laugh of the evening!!!

    it went on for ever!! obama looked pissed, lol

  72. she tole em by gawd a clinton to clean up a bush good for you Hillary,i would never debate her now way…id be done in less than a sec

  73. yes,yes,yes…it takes a clinton to clean up after a bush!!!! perfect, perfect and toned just right….biggest applause of the night. said she wants to be judged on her own merits and cited the great things in the clinton administration

  74. Great answer Hillary…I LOVE her…it took a Clinton to clean up after the first Bush and it will take another CLinton to clean up after the second Bush!!!!!!!!!!! The crowd loved it too…loudest cheers

  75. I am obsessed with the tracker . . . but she nailed that “dynasty” question. She also should have poured BO more water, it looks like he was already out . . . must be really sweating it!

  76. ohhhhhhhhh SNAP………..

    THAT WAS JUST RIGHTEOUS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    GO CLINTONS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  77. Wow, what an answer!! How was the people meter?

    (I’m really glad there have been no bad attacks. That’s my opinion, anyway.)

  78. lol, clinton cleaning after a bush. left obama cold beore the break. he is always frowning while hillary speaks.

  79. OMFG what an awesome answer!

    Anyone see Pierce Brosnan is the audience? He is one hot-looking bitch…more grizzled but still hot.

  80. obama did the classic thing when uncomfortable, drinking from his glass!! lol

    that was wonderful by hillary, and she was in no way arrogant or gloating as obama would have done, she even smiled shyly when the laugh ignited itself a second time, great

  81. okay which network do we watch after the debate. I can not afford to buy a new TV if some asshole says Hillary did not win and I throw something at it.

  82. One of my tenants just stopped by – a young African American woman I would adopt if she’d let me. She said she loves Hillary, furrowed her brow and said she’s just not sure about Obama.

    Now, I really want to adopt. Too bad she already has a mom.

  83. total domination…i just can’t imagine pundits not saying that she has dominated…of course…i could be wrong…i have a good feeling about the spin from tonight.

  84. lol. rjk1957, funny!

    I love hillarys voice now, she sounds like a mother concerned for her country and her people! very sweet.

  85. Obama never answers the questions. He just digresses to rhetoric that sounds good but are just that…rhetoric!

  86. he sounds so rehearsed on Iraq….blah blah I opposed it from the start, he’s trying to score some points here.

    Ugh…Fisher Stevens, another hack actor in the audience. Is this like their Oscars now that it may be cancelled? Why aren’t there more non-celebs in there?

  87. it’s like…obama” i want to change stuff”…hrc”well here is how to split an atom…i’ve done it before…you take the proton and…” she is just so specific and soooooo comfortable talking and making points..so clear.

  88. Oklabubba:
    it’s like…obama” i want to change stuff”…hrc”well here is how to split an atom…i’ve done it before…you take the proton and…” she is just so specific and soooooo comfortable talking and making points..so clear.

    LOL!

  89. God, she looks presidential. And she speaks, as they say, in complete, coherent paragraphs.

  90. look at hill sha eher ehad lill shut the helll she once someone who is intelligent…i wonder if she is thinking blah blah blah..lol

  91. kind of off topic here…but…does anyone else HATE to hear obama use words that end in s? HE HISSES! I’M SICK OF IT. haha…ok..i feel better.

  92. he ‘welcomes the progress’ in iraq. what does that mean?
    way to think about what you’re saying and the implications, there
    i think he’s just pandering on the iraq issue
    a few sentences later he’s saying it’s back up to intolerable levels of violence.
    so which is it, barack?

  93. all – where’s the rezko question on politico? I just looked at social issues, leadership and had already highlighted Obama…

  94. They really want to FORCE her to use the word ‘mistake’. They get so pissed she won’t give in.

  95. Obama will continue to hit her on the Iraq War. I don’t know how she should approach this issue. Should she say she made a mistake?

  96. This is such a difficult issue for Hillary to discuss. She can’t say that it’s a mistake because it would seem like a flip-flop. She is doing as good a job as possible…

  97. HighlyEducatedHillarySupporter: “Obama will continue to hit her on the Iraq War. I don’t know how she should approach this issue. Should she say she made a mistake?”

    She should say that she decided based on the best available information at that time.

  98. She needs to counter-punch on Iraq. He has invoked this attack twice in this debate. She needs to say that he wasn’t against the war from the beginning, that he voted for $300 billion in funding for the war.

  99. No, she should not. So is that a good reason not to vote for her? Because she refuses to use that word?

  100. The decision back then was not a mistake, everybody was thinking the same way with what we knew. Like Admin said a long time ago, to say its a mistake says most of America was a mistake. Don’t go there, and I love HRC for not doing so, stick to your principles.

  101. yeah – i voted for the rezko question. Please please ask the Rezko question – YES, Wolf says character…let’s hope and hope that it’s about rezko.

  102. wolf asked if he heard hillary right, saying she was naive to believe bush, what an ass, as she said none of that kind

  103. Knew Obama was waiting to pounce on that line about being right from Day 1.
    The role of Tim Russert played by Wolf Blitzer tonight;
    “Would you say you were naive?”

    Incredible Lowlife.

    Hillary won the first 3/4 of this debate. A strong finish here and she’s got it, relatively easy.

  104. Perhaps Wolf has a Rezko question for Obama in the “character” section of the debate

    Maybe he asked the war one of Hillary but now he will ask one that will be difficult for Obama

  105. Well, the ticker didn’t go up for either Obama or Hillary during the discussion on Iraq. I don’t think independent voters loved his answer or his subtle attacks at Hillary either.

  106. Hillary is playing to much like assault now.What is she thinking?She could have easily stated that this man was not in the senate during the vote?If she do get this he will so be her vice president. and that is disgusting since he will try to take credit for every single thing

  107. on politico…you click on the candidate picture to get the possible questions to be asked…click on barack and you get his questions…click on hillary and you get different questions.

  108. hillary doesnt seem to be quick on the ball tonight…

    its always a mistake to start rambling on, thats one of those things you look at to see whos lost and whos not…

    she should have just said: SENATOR, IS THAT YOUR ONE FAME TO CLAIM , THAT YOU SAID NO TO THE WAR BACK IN WHENEVER, WHEN YOU DIDNT HAVE THE WAIT OF THE NATION ON YOUR SHOULDERS…

    EASY TO SAY NOW YOU DID THE RIGHT THING, BUT YOU WERENT PRIVY TO ANYTHING THAT WAS GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES…

  109. Iraq is a huge issue for SoCal voters. The fact that she let him get away with saying she has NO judgement TWICE, makes me concerned.

  110. Wolfe didn’t win him any friends with this argument…Hillary did! Obama look like an ass because he had the benefit of being a Monday morning quarterback and he still voted the same way Hillary did once he was in the Senate.

    The problem with this question is that the MSM push us into war too and a lot of voters wanted this too…so when Obama and MSM try to force a “that vote was a mistake” from Hillary, they also don’t see that Hillary position is more relatable with the general public. Only the far left and want to see Hillary strung up on that vote.

  111. Nah, HRC. Most of America is frustrated with the endless harping on how we got in and blaming Congress. Only the far left is obsessed with that. Most people are more interested in getting out.

  112. She’s won more than 3/4 of the debate so far. The Iraq War vote will always be her weakest point and I’m sure Obama will continue to criticize her Iraq vote on the campaign trail. But on everything else she has him beat.

  113. I think she did great, too. It’s really easy to say you’re against the war when you don’t have to really VOTE. (which is not his strong suit!)

  114. Exactly, carbynew. If you try to paint Hillary as evil for giving the president the benefit of the doubt at that time, you are telling 80% of the public that they were evil too.

  115. I know for a fact that one question was not asked by an Obama supporter. And that question is from Charlotte, NC.

  116. It’s really sad. Obama keeps getting softball questions, and just reciting from his stump speech. I have deja vu every time he opens his mouth. CNN is a joke.

  117. quite nodding yes to his answers. go into the details like he did about cabinet members etc….close this out hillary.

  118. Look at that fool sucking up by pulling out chairs and all.I wish Hillary would have said “i can pull out my own chair”.He is such a big fake i swear

  119. Well, it was a standing ovation. People like to see them together on good terms. Hmm.

  120. Now the …I can’t thino of words..is even holding her chair when he would not even acknowledge her on Monday night.

    BO is a real…..!!! EEE WWW

  121. I think she just nailed down Super Tuesday. PLEASE IGNORE the media spin after, as they will try to spin it for Obama.

    The voters know what they saw and heard.

  122. She did very well…even with the Iraq issue. He sounds like a broken record on that. I think most get tired of his spouting the same issue over and over again. That seems to be the only thing he has….or tries to use against her. I think most of the public have moved beyong that…due to so many other issues that need to be addressed.

  123. Maybe I’m old-fashoined, but I’m glad he pulled out her chair. (He’s being careful to be nice! The SNUB went around the world.

  124. Candy Crowley should quit slobbering over Obama, it’s a little sad and pathetic this unrequited love she has for him.

  125. Was the set staged so that Obama can show that he is gallant? i.e. seated. So he can show Hillary her seat and pull the chair for her?

  126. She did very well. She speaks with such authority. Most of the people in American want somebody for CIC who demonstrates that they will take difficult action if they have to. Antiwar candidates don’t win

  127. MSNBC is SOOOO bias. I went to their website and their First Read section says Hillary didn’t do well with the Iraq question. Well, she can do as best as she can do.

  128. Why do they bring on that has been “Please buy my failed book trashing Hilary” Carl Berstein on. He hates Hillary. Where is the pundit that is rabidly Hillary…never see that. Shame on the media

  129. while they were hugging at the end, hillary said (twice) “i’m so p….p..”

    any lip readers out there? what did she say???

  130. I am watching Dan Abrams…. asking the question who edwards will endorse??? Okay everyone does Edwards edorsement mean anything??

  131. Politico audience report: My colleague Jonathan Martin, in the theater, hears Obama apologize to an autograph seeker.

    “I’m not going to be able to personalize it, because I’ve got to get out of here,” he says.

  132. she is weak on the iraq and that is something that undecided will most likely ponder. her health care plan is genious. I really don’t think this debate was the knockout that media touted it to be.

    Obama showed he was willing to seriously kiss ass to edwards and to richardson. I admire Clinton for not stooping to that level. she laid out her plans and I think she won.

  133. I know for a fact that Obama’s people would love be Hillary’s VP if they don’t win the nomination….think Kennedy/Johnson in the 1960 brokered convention.

    Obama is hoping his delegates count would force the VP issue should he not win but I don’t think he would every give Hillary the VP position if the opposite was true…he just not that secure to have her in his cabinet or VP.

    By the way, I don’t think Obama should be VP, I don’t trust him. JMHO. Obama need to go back and learn his job because he might not have one after this is over…the repugs want his senate seat badly.

  134. I do not think the Iraq vote issue is the main thing on voters minds. It gets attention mostly from bloggers

  135. I’m gonna try to watch a few minutes of the post-debate stuff, I don’t think I’ll be able to stomach it, though.

    I actually really liked what Hillary had to say about her Iraq vote. What struck me was that she was willing to really flesh out her position. I mean, in the end, wouldn’t it be nice if you could always be right in every decision that you make. I think how you handle yourself when, in hindsight, something you did didn’t result in what you expect.

    I guess when it comes down to it, I don’t like that Barack describes his huge blunders as “bone-headed” and expects the issue to go away. Hillary owns her decisions and accepts the responsibility for whatever outcome occurs even when that outcome is unexpected (like George Bush’s psychosis which no one could seriously entertain as a possibility).

  136. Did I just hear correctly, did Bernstein just condescendingly described Hillary as being the best secretary of health/human svs? What an asshole!

  137. Wow. Wow. Wow. I saw an amazing thing. I saw someone who was Presidential. Someone who was knowledgeable, competent, organized, and amazingly eloquent. I also saw someone stumbling, stuttering, mumbling, and bumbling. Can you guess who was who?

    Fantastic job Hillary. I am so very very very proud of you. I am in awe of your abilities and know that I can trust the United States of America in your hands.

    Congratulations.

  138. OK I missed this part but my friend whose dad is a federal employee is pissed that Obama talked degradingly at federal servicemen. he was almost condescending according to my friend. any thoughts?

  139. I agree totally about Carl Bernstein. He is simply trying to sell his anti-Hillary book.

    I was happy with the debate (discussion) except for the one where he was able to get by with hammering her with the judgment question regarding the war. I don’t know how she could answer that one any better without getting off topic.

    I regret that she didn’t get to question his judgment in many situations that would really knock him out of the box. Maybe that will come up next Monday night. I don’t believe the audience will be nearly as large though.

  140. yes, he did imply that federal employees require more supervision. in fact, he claims we do not trust government employees as a result of the work ethic he seemingly disparaged.

  141. I personally don’t think Obama should be VP either. He is not qualified and I dislike him but it’s a good way to unite the party. A lot of Obama people hate Hillary. If he is the VP pick it will appease a lot of people and stop them from voting for McCain.

  142. The voters will decide 🙂 It was certainly not a draw! Hillary won it hands down! But the media is so biased that they would call it an Obama win even if the fool was drooling and mute on stage.

  143. Obama was nice! Still dont want him as nominee or believe in his rhetoric, but he was nice… hillary still outdid him debate wise tho

  144. I think Hillary did great! She was smiling trough the entire thing, haha. 😀

    But it seems cnn at least so far are basically saying it’s a tie.

    But I’m amazed that that dude on the left, don’t remember his name, says that on likability he come out slightly ahead, why he felt the need to throw that in there is beyond me, and why he seems to think that is really puzzling me. As all I can see is an angry grumpy man. I don’t find that boy one bit likable.

  145. she is right on iraq and made solid, serious points about what to do next. and that is what most care about i believe. that is nice obama made a speech. where do we go from here? that is important.

    i am also very, very surprised that obama is running in cali on support of drivers licenses for illegal immigrants. that is a killer, killer issue in the general. unbelievable.

  146. I don’t think Obama should be Hillary’s VP either! I dislike him and I don’t believe that he has the experience to VP either.

  147. MSNBC has Wolff on saying Obama won it …some shit about Hollywood audience. Keith saying how Obama conveyed funny tonight, by far his best debate. I can’t watch this anymore, I’m turning to Fox.

  148. yeah, “liberal” keith olbermann is great – there were 20 minutes on health care, he says, but look, who was funny?

  149. I’m sure more people than us are befuddled that the pundits think Obama did well; a TIE? c’mon! …she is so much better at being clear about every answer; she is more substantive.

  150. Obama just looks like he’s performing. I don’t know who the real Obama is behind the performance. Hillary seemed more real — like what you see is what you get with Hillary.

  151. I’m not going to listen to the media. I really don’t care what they think. I feel I am an intelligent person very capable of seeing them objectively. If I thought Obama did better, I would say so, but it so clearly obvious that Hillary does everything better than him.

  152. What a big surprise, CNN and MSNBC showing more Obama clips, then having “experts” come one to spin for Obama the uniter. I swear, the election coverage has turned me into an unwilling bulimic.

  153. I can’t stand the guy – BUT (and this is a big but) if Hillary, who I have no doubt knows exactly what she is doing and knows the details of everything in Obama’s life, decided that it is her best move to make him VP, then I will bow to her judgement.

    I won’t like it, and I doubt it will happen, but I always trust Hillary to do the smartest thing.

  154. Cillizza said that – but will the Washington Post print it?

    Olberman’s douchebaggery is right out there in the open, isn’t it?

    Bill Bennet was emphatic Hillary won!

    Talk about things you never thought you’d see!

  155. MJS, he needed to do more than hold his own. He didn’t. Trust me on this. I know the way Joe sixpack thinks, and she was a president. He was a nice guy, but she was a president tonight in the eyes of the average voter.

  156. My take: It was a more civil, warm and friendly (at least on camera) debate.

    Going into this debate there was only one major questions.

    Which of these candidates passes the threshold question of “Who is ready to be president?”

    This question is particularly relevant for Obama: “Is Obama ready to be president?”

    Hillary clearly passed that threshold today (as she has in the past).

    Obama did not pass that threshold test today.

    A neutral voter (not partisans like us) sitting at home looking at this debate is likely to conclude that she likes Obama, that he is an attractive candidate, but not ready to be president.

    A Democratic voter is more likely to look at the stage and conclude (whether we here like it or not) that Obama would be a good vice-presidential pick and that he might be ready in eight years.

    That is my honest, unbiased take.

  157. i think if Hillary does become Barack’s mentor in a way, she could help him out a lot as he would for her. Barack bringing in a lot more of the youth vote and securing the African American voters while Hillary can shape him up for debating the repubs. it could be win win..but who knows. I hate Obama’s history of rezko and present votes and by then, rezko will have exploded.

  158. They’re going to review that tracker thing, all I read here was Hill dominated the tracker. I hope that proves to be the case.

  159. H4T, that was Bill Bennetts arguement. That he needed to do more than just hold his own and he did not. That’s why he thinks Hillary won.

  160. Sorry, Wolfe from Newsweek who’s supposed to be impartial. I don’t know which is worse, him or Blitzer.

  161. There was a President and a Pretender on stage. Hillary is the President without any doubt in my mind at all.

    Favorite Line?

    “It took a Clinton to clean up after Bush, it will take another Clinton to clean up after another Bush”.

  162. Speaking to Gloria’s argument, I’m wondering aloud here, but does the average Democratic voter really think that in the argument against the Republican Machine, in general, and McCain in particular…does the average Democratic voter believe that “I was right not to want to go to war in the first place” is going to resonate on the Right?

    I don’t think it will. I think that the Republicans will go to their greatest hits that “Democrats are soft on National Security and they can’t protect us.” I think Hillary’s position is stronger in the GE, the question is will the people on the Left recognize this?

  163. you know…just thinking…but sometimes when i listen to the war thing….i see Hillary is the one….that if North Korea sent a bomb to Japan…she would stand up for an allie. Obama would want to negotiate. Frankly…i would prefer Hillary’s response. To protect and defend the US…and part of that is honoring our allies in this world.
    At the time of the Iraq vote…most of this nation was behind that vote…even Ted Kennedy. I have lots of trouble with Obama hanging on to that issue. I certainly agree with her…to not let the United Nation overshadow the duty of the President of the USA. How was she to know that the real problem here…is how the war was handled. Complete incompetency…and that was done by George Bush

  164. Wolfson goes 2nd, don’t you know?

    Bet my life he gets less airtime too.

    Wolfe is a latent homosexual.

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  165. guys, I know I’m thinking so far ahead into the future…but when Hillary becomes president/nominee, will this site be deemed useless? will we all jsut regard our time here as history?

  166. OMG Bill Bennett the voice of reason? lol well on this one ocassion he is right! Obama needed to convince voters why they should choose him over Hillary and he failed to do so.

  167. good to hear Erica Hill says the undecided voters at the end of the debate broke for Clinton 60-40. At least the people thought Clinton did better even if the pundits can’t admit it.

  168. # johnflint1985 Says:
    January 31st, 2008 at 10:21 pm

    let’s be sober and honest – who wins the debate?

    What do you mean?

  169. NJS,
    I theoretically could have something (related) for everyone to continue doing. Can’t really get into it right now though….

  170. Hillary won. Showed far better grasp of issues. Acknowledged Maxine Waters. United Farm Workers. Hospital closure. Health care. Immigration. Yea, she won. Not meet with foreign dictators in 1st year without pre-con.

    On Iraq, she explained the intent of the Iraq Resolution, and how it is no different from other cases where we have had to use force when diplomacy fails. She explained it was not a vote for preemptive war. She received White House assurances it would not be used preemptively, Bush violated it and screwed up execution. Good answer on Levin Amendment.

    That is my take. What did Buchanan say?

  171. I hope Hillary can get alot of donation after this debate…. I feel so much better about TT. I will look at Saturday’s polling numbers…

  172. # MJS Says:
    January 31st, 2008 at 10:23 pm

    this was by far, Obama’s best debate…though hillary still lapped him in all the substantive answers.

    Why, specifically was it Barry’s best debate, BY FAR?

  173. I would agree with that, MJS. Obama and Hillary have both improved as debaters, I think. They’ve had enough practice, lol.

  174. Hillary clearly won that debate. She was confident, humorous, substantive. Obama’s bosy language was awkward. He has a way of always looking down on Hillary. He drags on the way John Kerry does, with long, dull answers. The MSM is worst than I feared if they are painting this as an Obama “win” or a “draw”.

  175. TheRealist
    I am trying to get the feeling – where it will go in the next 4-5 days – who will trun an advantage because of the debate. I think she is mush better on the substance – but he is more prefered for likability

  176. ABC News’ Jake Tapper – ‘Clinton has a really steady tone tonight, solid and presidential. Eminently likeable.’ [ABC News Political Radar, 1/31/08]

    CNN’s Bill Schneider – ‘Clinton comes across as more polished and knowledgeable.’ [CNN Political Ticker, 1/31/08]

    New Republic’s Michael Crowley – ‘Hillary has a really impressive fluency and confidence in the details.’ [New Republic’s The Stump, 1/31/08]

    NBC News’ Domenico Montaro – Hillary ‘knocked it out of the park.’ “Hillary’s been asked that question before and it is central to Obama’s argument — why should the country vote for a Clinton when there’s been either a Bush or a Clinton on the ballot for a generation. She knocked it out of the park with a line she’s used before, saying, it took a Clinton to clean up after the first Bush and it might take another Clinton to clean up after this Bush. It’s about as good as she could answer it and it got a standing ovation.”

    Washington Post’s Chris Cillizza – Hillary ‘turned a tough question into a terrific moment.’ “Whether or not Clinton had that line in her hip pocket for tonight, she delivered it well and turned a tough question into a terrific moment.” [Washington Post’s The Fix, 1/31/08]

    TPM’s Josh Marshall – ‘Hillary’s on a tear here.’ [Talking Points Memo, 1/31/08]

    MyDD’s Todd Beeton – ‘Hillary gave a strong answer on her Iraq vote.’ [MyDD, 1/31/08]

    Los Angeles Times’ Don Frederick – ‘Clinton got the biggest response of the night’ “Clinton got the biggest response of the night when she reprised a line she’s used before about the prospective Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton White House tenures. It took a Clinton to clean up after the first Bush, she said — clearly knowing it was a surefire line — and it might take a Clinton to clean up after the second.” [Los Angeles Times blog, 1/31/08]

    The Hill’s A.B. Stoddard: ‘I think she handled herself wonderfully tonight.’ [MSNBC, 1/31/08]

    ABC News’ Rick Klein – ‘[Hillary] generally excels when the talk is substantive, and she handled the focus on health care rather masterfully.’ [ABC News Political Radar, 1/31/08]

  177. mj, any sane person, with an ounce of logic and intelligence can see that Hillary was Presidential whereas Obama is the pretender.

    This is fantastic people. If she didn’t knock it out of the park, she damn sure got a triple.

  178. I’m still thinking of that shoutout to Richardson by Obama during the debate. Do you guys think Obama knows Richardson is endorsing him and that’s why he’s comfortable using that reference? That point stuck in my mind for some reason.

  179. i like richard wolfe, i think i remember him in ‘journeys with george’ on the press plane talking about the absurdity of the bubble world they’re in

    i thought hillary did great on iraq. again i dont know how media looks at it, but i am fed up with who was against what, six years ago. what matters is what we do now and she was much more focused and serious and clear on all those points.

  180. I agree with whoever said before that the far, far left who are completely anti-war ever and that is their main concern won’t vote for Hillary. But most Americans are more concerned about how we can get our troops out now as well as other issues like universal health care which Clinton is best at explaining.
    Point is, if voting for the Iraq War is your main concern then you will not vote for Hillary Clinton. If you main concern is anything else including picking the person who will be best at getting out, Hillary is the best candidate.
    Hillary can’t change the past. And this is Obama’s freebie since he didn’t HAVE to vote for the Iraq War. Funny how they don’t ask him about some of the poor judgments he’s made since joining the senate and the votes he’s made.

  181. johnflint1985 Says:
    January 31st, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    In the debate or in general? The CNN focus group broke 60-40 in her favor and the anti-Hillary media calls it a tie, what do YOU think, as you danced around actually naming a winner?

  182. I’m not going to keep hoping for Santa Claus to come along and save this nomination for Hillary. She will have to win it on her own. Frankly, she has been doing a pretty good job so far.

    I’m not going to wait for more mistakes by Obama to put her over the top. I’m not going to expect this Rezko thing to break wide open, although I would be happy if it did.

    I don’t know what Hillary will do next to make her campaign a success, but I know she is capable of doing something. Maybe her show on the internet next Monday will be helpful, but I have no idea how many people would watch that. Out of those, I can’t guess how many would be undecided voters. It may be like preaching to the choir. All of us who love her would enjoy it a lot. Meanwhile, we can hope.

    I’m going to stick with her all the way. It’s just too important.

  183. TheRealist
    in general.
    I am trying to get a link to the numbers that you quote – I need it for another forum

  184. I honestly can’t see why people here would praise Obama’s performance. I find him boring, and think he comes off as intimidated by Hill.

  185. I like Wolfe too; one of the few who I think is a straight shooter.
    KO gave him very leading questions..

    Maybe I shouldn’t have called him a fruitcake…

  186. “Obama’s bosy language was awkward. He has a way of always looking down on Hillary. He drags on the way John Kerry does, with long, dull answers.”

    mj, I agree. Also notice how he purses his lips a lot when he’s wounded by truthful counterpoints. That pedantic delivery isn’t going to help in a one-on-one with McCain.

  187. The problem with Obama is that he is very inexperience on the national stage and has dug himself a huge hole in the west. Hillary knows so she didn’t fall for any traps but Obama did time and time again.

    Too many D.C/NYC people coaching Obama and that doesn’t fly out here. The east coast doesn’t know crap about what is going on in the west. Just like on the talk show…it ticks me off so all the time how little respect California get from the east coast.

    There is a difference in how you politic out west and time and time again those back east pundits don’t know crap and it show.

    The California economy is larger then most countries and right now our economy is tanking and for the pundits to talk about the Iraq vote like it was yesterday and not talk about the economy more is just amazing to me.

    What a bunch of idiots the media is!!!!

  188. I thought Bill is going to be in NM tomorrow… correct me if i am wrong… i am hopeing that he and Bill Richardson can talk.

  189. luntz’s group on fox had actor john cleese of monty python fame asking the undecideds questions. i turned the channel im afraid

  190. Crooks and Liars says debate a draw; TPM’s Marshall says both had a good debate, Hillary stronger first half, BO stronger on Iraq – no real contrasts with exception of Iraq; Huffington from what I can translate, says Hillary had the best line of the night, applause worth, and that Obama had a good one about being right on day one.

  191. Hillary wins the debate. Obama looked like an entertainer. It just looked like a performance. With Hillary, the person we saw is the person who will be in the Oval Office — that’s the person the Chinese Foreign Minister will meet, that’s the person who will be twisting the arms of Pfizer’s chairman. Her performance was more honest, much more real. I might add she’s the only one who had to handle any tough questions. She jumped out in front of the tough question about Romney’s business success with the best line of the night. The U.S. Government is not for profit.

    The netnuts forget when they crow about Iraq that the vast majority of Americans supported the war in 2003. Obama said tonight, all you Americans who supported the war in 2003, I’m smarter than you are. Voters who supported the war will relate to Hillary’s answer better. Iowa was about Iraq. TT is not about Iraq. Hill beat him good.

  192. I always hated those dial tests, but now I see just how more valuable they are then the three idiots up there spinning crap.

  193. johnflint1985 Says:
    January 31st, 2008 at 10:36 pm

    Actually, this is what you said ;

    “I think she is mush better on the substance – but he is more prefered for likability”

    So it wasn’t exactly clear, hence my question.

  194. Josh Marshall spewing fatally flawed points. Says Obama had a better grasp of the facts! WTF?!

    Then says many people were just tuning into the campaign!

    Months ago 4 of 5 americans polled said they were paying a great deal of attention to the race.

    The airwaves are polluted!!!

  195. the media will screw around with hillary’s iraq answer which wasnt bad! but its no the war right now-its economy. this was the only slight error i think she may have made-too much time on iraq and not saying to obama ey u voted for the war fundng.

  196. I think it was Josh Marshall on MSNBC who just said that although the Iraq vote question was the hardest for Hillary she managed to turn it around to where the audience booed Wolf Blitzer. He also said this issue is one that mostly the bloggers are concerned with. I think he had the best analysis on this part of the debate that I have seen so far…

  197. I just turned off my TV – I think it was a good debate where Hillary walks away just as strong, if not stronger. I think she came in like a front runner and comes out the front runner. Iraq was not a strong suit, but right now, “it’s the economy, stupid!”

  198. TheRealist

    I don’t know how and for the life of me and I cannot get this – but he gets this appeal that he is able to create around him. None of his answers has substance as much as she does – but I am trying to get this phenomena: why he is so popular? If you use logic – she should be miles ahead from him – yet he is catching up. Why?

  199. carbynew, as a native Californian I totally concur. East coast and midwest politicians and pundits don’t know crap about California. When they talk about us, they recycle stuff like Reagan, Schwartzennegar, high tech, and Hollywood. What they don’t realize is the California, were it to become an independent nation, would have the 10th largest economy in the world.

  200. josh marshall in prescient self analysis! true that. the issue with iraq is, how do we get out? who will get us out in a responsible way? yes there are some who edwards especially can pander to saying we’ll get all troops out immediately but i am sure most voters are serious and realize we have to be realistic on how to get out.

  201. Why are you guys all concerned about what the media pundits are saying? You all know better than that. What you should be concerned about it what the average voter took away from the debate. They are the ones who go to the voting booth. After todays debate, I LOVE HRC’s chances.

  202. Bennett insisting Hillary won debate.

    Gergan saying Obama uncomfortable about the discussion of vice-president as it might say to people it’s OK to vote for Hillary because you might get Obama too

  203. Ok, I read that josh marshall says Obama won the debate. That’s not so prescient. I honestly marvel at ayone who can pronounce Obama winner here.

  204. johnflint, He has tremendous political skills (I’m quoting Bill Clinton here), has tapped into the desire for change this country wants, and is revered by the media and the D.C. establishment.

  205. Caroline, it’s fun seeing what the pundits are saying, particularly when we know many are either utterly biased or utterly clueless.

  206. Think of what the electorate’s concerns and priorities are in order of importance;
    The ECONOMY, HEALTHCARE, the war. That’s what folks were listening to and listening for. She addressed their concerns and sounded presidential. She didn’t do anything to hurt herself on her two strongest issues and they have become the two most important issues in the campaign.

  207. I say this again, Obama lost the west and if he become the nominee he will lose.

    I’m not going to talk about the traps, because so many anti Hillary haters come to this site, that Obama fell into but anybody from Western states saw them and saw Obama falling in them.

    And they were huge mistakes….the repugs are going to kill him in the GE.

  208. this is an overstatement – but everytime, I get in an elevator and see a guy under 30, I think he’s going to vote for Obama (I hope I’m just projecting and wrong) because he can’t stand the idea of a woman, and someone who may remind him of a “mom” being the President and lording over him… the gender barrier and that glass ceiling has proven to be harder and higher than I ever expected, but I believe she will do it. And when she wins, it will hugely cathartic for all women – and women who see every uptick of her polls or her debate wins with hope and then immediately replace it with caution will see that it is possible… and that it will happen.

  209. Paula
    And that propelled this upstart that far? In terms of his answers – he is nowhere near her. She is way ahead on reality and experience. Yet he drives inspirational drive that creates this aura around him. How we can stop it? What needs to be done? Do we have enough time?

  210. H4T, I will try to clarify. I openly admit I was hoping this debate would give her a chance for a knockout punch. The format made that virtually impossible. I’m very disappointed it didn’t happen that way.

    I’m glad some sources are saying she won the debate. I’m also glad some are saying it was a draw, because I thought it was closer to that than a solid victory. Either way, she wins since that will help her to hold onto her current lead. That’s what I’m counting on.

    I’m not going to hope for more mistakes by Obama, but maybe the snub will be enough. I’m not going to expect some important endorsement to put her over the top, because I don’t believe one could do that. I’m not going to expect the MSM to jump onto her side for a change. I’m not going to expect the Rezko thing to explode for her, but I won’t be unhappy if it did. I just think the time is too short to do what it needs to do. I’m very pleased with the work B. Merryfield has been doing, but it may not succeed in time. I wouldn’t mind being wrong there.

    I’m not going negative about Hillary. I still expect her to win. I just expect her to do it the hard way, the way she has been doing it. I’m not whining about that. She is an excellent campaigner, and she has such a tremendous amount of stiff opposition. She could handle Obama easily if it was really one on one.

    Finally, I’m very happy to see all the excitement and enthusiam being expressed here in support of the position that she won that debate hands down. If she ended up on the plus side, I believe it was very close. I can accept that.

  211. lninla Says:
    January 31st, 2008 at 10:54 pm
    this is an overstatement – but everytime, I get in an elevator and see a guy under 30, I think he’s going to vote for Obama (I hope I’m just projecting and wrong) because he can’t stand the idea of a woman

    That’s so weird, Ininla, I think the same thing.

  212. John King gave Barry’s rebuttal to the dynasty question FOR HIM! You really don’t have to worry about people seeing through these shills. It’s almost like they’re working from a script. They are trying to do everything they can to promote a long, drawn out democratic campaign, while, “my good friend:, John McCain and the republicans, rest up for the GE. It isn’t just because they are hypnotized by Barry, it’s because a drawn out campaign is better for THEM. That’s why I suggest that everyone get a bottle of their favorite beverage, so that we can all toast together on Tuesday night as we watch them flash Hillary’s smiling visage over and over and over and over…..

  213. # johnflint1985 Says:
    January 31st, 2008 at 10:54 pm

    Paula
    And that propelled this upstart that far? In terms of his answers – he is nowhere near her. She is way ahead on reality and experience. Yet he drives inspirational drive that creates this aura around him. How we can stop it? What needs to be done? Do we have enough time?

    She’s ahead almost everywhere. What do you mean AGAIN? Why are you acting like we’re behind and should feel desperate?

  214. “It took a Clinton to clean the first Bush mess and it will take another to clean this Bushs mess”

    This is priceless people I am going to make a bumper stick
    We need T-shirts too
    Well done girl

  215. NYCMAX, you are exactly right. I think the repubs will turn his Iraq vote into a wimpy position and they can’t touch her there. In fact, she has the stronger position against them by arguing how Bush screwed up the execution of the war.

  216. You are right, carbynew. Hillary just won super tuesday and I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. The pundits and the desperately blogging idiots are so out of the loop on this that it is almost funny.

    And no, I will not elaborate either, but Obama has no idea how to campaign to the West, and especially not to the Latino or Asian vote. He also just lost a bunch of the blue-collar working people vote. These are my people, and he did not speak to them – city slicker from Chicago does not know how.

    Hillary did what she needed to do, and did it perfectly.

  217. WTF. Why are these talking heads asking if there was a winner? Huh???? They are saying that Obama won on Iraq and Hillary MIGHT HAVE won on immigration. These people are so bias that it clouds reality. She won on EVERYTHING except for MAYBE on Iraq. She will NEVER win on Iraq because Obama will continue to make it look as if he had the courage not to vote for it. Please.

  218. I know what you mean. But as you said, Hillary will win this through hard work.

    BTW, aren’t fourth-quarter financials out tonight?

  219. Time’s The Page/Mark Halperin:

    Hillary Clinton

    “She reminded her supporters why they favor her,and may have won over some undecideds with her unfalteringly upbeat attitude and air of maturity.”

    Substance: A-
    Style: B+
    Offense: B
    Defense : B+
    Overall grade: A-

    Barack Obama

    “Tenaciously drove his four core issues (change, unity, inspiration, problem solving), and incorporated them into almost every answer.”

    Substance: B+
    Style: A-
    Offense: B+
    Defense: B
    Overall grade: A-

  220. johnflint, you are nuts. There is no big MO for Obama. So the whole fearful “can we stop him in time?” is total CRAP.

    Pffffffffffffffffft! Wait and see. He is not coming close to catching Hillary. His momentum is slowing, from tomorrow on. Bank on it.

  221. Just listen to this idiot Rachel maddow saying that Hill voted for the war and she knew it before hand. What a bit…h

  222. rachel maddow, nice as she is, does not have a clue. thinks hill lost the debate because of talk on iraq. earlier said she thought the immigration stuff just showed how false gop talking points worked their way in & eliot spitzer could be elected president over any of the gop candidates. who is she kidding??!!

  223. HillaryforTexas
    Trust me – I want to wrong on that one. I want to be nuts. I will have a toast to your health once she will win oin tuesday.

  224. Obama is getting away with it because he is not known to the voters and he is tall, handsome and dark with charisma when he want to turn it on. But the more you get to know him, the more his dark side comes out.

    He’s the left version of George Bush with less skill. If it wasn’t for MSM media protecting his azz John Edward might be in his seat. I have no doubt that those repugs that is crossing over for him will vote for their party or sit at home but they’re not afraid of Obama at all…puhlease after what they do to Obama like they did to the Clintons in the 1990’s Obama will be stuttering his way back to Illinois…I have not doubt on this…because the Repugs play hard and harder and they have the White House to help them out and they will use it.

    Rezko trial is just the beginning, remember Michelle Obama has some “splaining” to do too.

  225. BTW, johnflint, you are another one I am watching. You come around all sowing panic and fear a little too often for my taste.

    I am old and wise. I am a grandmother. I am pretty savvy. And you are coming close to not passing the smell test.

  226. A MyDD blogger overheard Maxine Waters utter these words to a reporter in the spin room of the Clinton team after the debate:

    People in my district have a lot of hope. They go to bed hungry, they have toruble heating their homes but they have a lot of hope that things will get better. They don’t need more hope, they need help.

  227. another_reader, re: richard wolfe. I saw and met him at the NV Caucus. He was covering the Bellagio Hotel location and was looking at the very loud Hillary supporters. We were all a very diverse group — young and old, male and female and from his eyes, I think he was thinking: hey, there are actually young people who support Hillary. Young voters aren’t exclusive to Obama.

  228. I thought the debate was fine. I think that she did extremely well in the first part. The Iraq question hurt, but she stuck to her position and did not waffle. And, Blitzer got what he deserved for his leading question.

    As for the rest of the debate, their were a lot of ‘softball’ questions – especially for Obama. So, I would say the latter portion was a wash, but overall a good night for our girl.

    BTW, why does Obama stammer and ramble so much?

  229. HillaryforTexas
    I am not here to pass the test. I am trying to get understanding how things are going. this is it.

  230. here is the link to the maxine waters statement, which I believe bears repeating again and again ad infinitum:

    http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/1/31/225951/428

    I quote:

    People in my district have a lot of hope. They go to bed hungry, they have trouble heating their homes but they have a lot of hope that things will get better. They don’t need more hope, they need help.

  231. Rachel Maddow is one of the wine drinking liberals. I have respect for her and she is extremely intelligent. She went to Stanford and Oxford. But she has really gotten on my nerves recently. You can tell that she is voting for Obama and the war is clearly one of the most important issues that she is voting on.
    Many wealthy liberal voters are basing their decision on Iraq as a moral issue because they could care less about fixing our public schools or having universal health care? Their kids are going to private school and they can afford to go to the doctor anytime they want. Trust me that the rest of America will not concentrate on her Iraq vote. They trust that she will give them universal health care, fix the immigration problem, get our troops out of Iraq, and give more Americans the ability to send their children to college.
    There are so many more domestic issues that people care more about than her Iraq vote. The questions they asked were quite frankly dumb. They could have taken out those softball questions like sex in Hollywood and asked more questions on education and poverty.

  232. johnflint, I’ve been listening to Rachel since 2005. I like her a lot and I don’t think she’s “bitch.” She’s a liberal’s liberal. Her #1 issue is Iraq and she cares deeply about it.

    I have a feeling that she’s pro-Obama, but on her show, she’s been very fair to Hillary.

    It’s the Ed Schultz, Thom Hartman, and Randi Rhodes who have been dissing Hillary.

  233. Hillary4Texas,

    I am with you about watching all these new people who post here with only negative information. I am not saying that you shouldn’t no the negatives, but if that is all that you can bring to the discussion… Well, then…I just question the motives behind their posts.

  234. Add Stephanie Miller to the list of progressive talk radio hosts that I haven’t listened to lately because of their snide comments towards Hillary and support of Obama.

  235. MJ – yes, I often think that. When I go anywhere, walking down the street, or stand in line for fast food (way too often), and see young men, I feel like they and their peers would rather vote for someone they think is “cool” whom they’d want to grab a beer with, whom they project themselves as in the Presidential seat, and at that point, they don’t care who is more substantive and smart (because it’s obviously Clinton). It would’ve helped had Clinton cultivated young, male spokespeople who would counter the peer pressures in that demographic. But she will prevail.

    When Clinton wins – we women (and our much more enlightened male advocates) will know HOW MUCH Clinton had to battle to win, and how many glass ceilings she had to break through.

  236. Bye all, I’m going to go make myself some grubs now. Oh, I have to put this post from one of the pop culture sites I visit to get my shallow news. This is from a discussion about tonight’s debate, I think it’s pretty funny, don’t know if the poster was serious or not….still funny though.

    #196 – mrs jones says – reply to this

    Hillary kicks ass! Obama is all talk and no action.
    Hillary is a workhorse. She has a proven track record–will never crack under pressure, has been investigated for decades and is smart as shit.
    She’s learned through mistakes and has already figured out what it will take Obama at least 4 years to begin to figure out.
    Hillary is a straight arrow–no drugs, no distractions, her daughter is grown up–she’s probably already through menopause btw, so no mood swings.
    She can handle any and every questions thrown at her…
    And women by nature bring a nurturing instinct much needed now.
    I mean where do you think Bill would be without Hillary? Probably dead from women and drinking and would have never made it. If she can lift him up that way, think what she can do for us.
    The presidency is a 24/7 job and Hillary won’t let us down. I was for Obama in the beginning after reading his two books—but he’s good writer, great speaker but doesn’t have the experience, know-how, and stamina that Hillary has….it’s gotta be Hillary.

  237. pulchritude,

    Rep. Walters used that line in an interview with Wolf Blitzer and I just loved it!

    I think it is a perfect quote that describes what is really needed in the next president.

  238. Hillary is more qualified. Period. And far more likely to reach across party lines and intra-party lines. The second is more important because had the Dems been more unified, we’d have gotten a lot more done this year.

    I don’t know how the Dem nomination will end up, because they will try to change the rules again but I am putting my faith in Hillary and in women. They are the majority of voters and most were proud of Hillary tonight. She wasn’t the caricature they have made of her and I think she will get a majority of them. That will do it for her. Go women! Browbeat your sons!! 🙂 Put Hillary over the top.

  239. HighlyEducatedHillarySupporter, Rachel is not a “whine drinking liberal”

    The woman loves beer. She always has a drinking game or cocktail recipes for us. She’s down to earth.

    But as you know, Iraq is her #1 issue and she has issues with Hillary for the vote.

  240. Schneider: The bottom line
    Posted: 11:00 PM ET
    The audience response was the same as that of Democrats across the country: they’re happy with their choice this year, but they don’t want to have to make it.

    I thought overall, his position tonight was still that of the challenger, and she was effectively the incumbent. Barack Obama needed to peel votes away from Clinton. He made some progress on the Iraq issue. But how many Democrats are still more concerned about Iraq than about anything else?

    To the extent that the debate was a draw, it helps Clinton.

    Why? Because holding his own wasn’t enough. Obama’s task tonight was to make the case that there were huge differences between them. Just holding his own and looking presidential was not enough — he had to convince Democrats who like her that there’s a reason she shouldn’t be the party’s nominee.

    He clearly had command on the issue of Iraq. Six months ago that would have been enough. Now? I’m not so sure. It took a while for the issue to take center stage tonight, and that’s no accident: Other concerns have come to the forefront.

    In all, it was an unhelpful debate. They minimized their differences. Tonight’s showdown will rally Democrats, no question – but won’t help them make a decision. The biggest applause line of the evening came for the idea of the two of them together.

    The debate doesn’t kill momentum for either one. But does it help build any? His strong showing could very well help Obama. But how much — enough to overtake Clinton? I just didn’t see that.

    Related: Watch CNN’s analysts discuss the outcome of Thursday’s debate

  241. Realist,
    That was unreal of King (reciting the answer Obama didn’t get to give), wasn’t it. I said to myself when he started, is he going to recite the whole freaking thing – and he did!

    Par for the course but offending to the sensibilities nonetheless.

  242. Rachel Maddow – at least she’s clear that Iraq is her issue, instead of some irrational reason (like Ed Shultz’s) to rip on Clinton…Maddow’s also gay and talks about her partner a lot, so given that’s her community which overwhelmingly supports Clinton, she’s definitely taking a different route.

  243. wbboei, Schneider is right. A tie doesn’t help Obama and at best the media will give him a tie even thoough Hillary was commanding.

  244. My take:

    Precious: “Yeah, what she said”

    Hillary: “I am 44.”

    She had a better command of issues, made some points on the immigration issue, owned healthcare and the sub-prime issues, and showed depth and reason on Iraq. Her point on not leaving allies behind in Iraq resonated with folks. Especially Asian immigrants here bc of VN. it also will resonate with military types- you don’t leave comrades behind.

    A big flub on Precious’ part that so far no one mentioned was his snippy answer on Iraq. The worst part was saying the execution was bad. Guess what, the troops execute. Leaders plan. That means he slammed the troops performance whereas Hillary showed she had stuck up for them. For their benefits, for their equipment and for their healthcare. She could have made more ado about having the support of the military experts. Iraq is a huge screw-up, but the test of a true leader is how they deal with problems. Precious failed to demonstrate any leadership in that regard.

    Anyone notice he had another “likeable enough moment” with the shortlist quip?

    Grades:
    Hillary a solid A.
    Precious a C+.

  245. Miller was never a Hillary supporter. If remember Bill Miller was Au H20’s running mate in ’64. Seems like he was her dad.

  246. Iraq is one of my number one issues, as well. But being a purist is no way to live. Hillary was no war enthusiast. If she really wants the war to end, she should pick the candidate best prepared to end it.

  247. agree with you MJ – Obama’s unexamined position “against the war” isn’t enough to tip that scale – at least Maddow said last night on Dan Abrams that Obama has no right to talk about the Kyl Lieberman vote since he skipped that vote. My suspicion is that Maddow was likely for Kucinich.

  248. The best part of the debate was when Hillary touted her accomplishments and experience (Macedonia, Beijing), and then the camera panned to a very proud Chelsea in the audience, applauding her mother. And hero.

  249. Oh, and Bernstein is a major tool.

    And as far as the comment about young males and being leery of them. You should be. I hang out in college bars. Last night I nearly coldcocked this one SOB. Mid 20’s, slightly hipster-doofus faux hippie type. You know the ones, not really a hippie but a bath is too much work between bong hits and getting rid of their latest case of crabs.

    He actually said he was voting for Precious because he was cool guy. I asked if he knew about the issues. He didn’t. I asked if he knew anything about the candidates or their experience. He didn’t. Just said Obama was cooler. WTF are parents teaching their children????? Fucking retard… 👿

  250. filbertsf,
    You’re right on Maddow. The fault lies with MSNBC, who knows darn well who’s on who’s side andcontinually schedules the same people with no cunter-balance.

    I love when Obama’s called precious.

    That’s too much….

  251. Vote for Hillary at Moveon.org. I am on their list, and if they get two thirds voting for one or the other, they will endorse. Voting ends tomorrow. I don’t know if you can vote at their site.
    If you get their mail out, check your email. You can make a statement of why you choose Hillary, also. This is my first comment here, thought I have read this forum for months.

    Hi, y’all!

  252. Hillary did a great job…she is always in control from the start…I don’t buy the criticism I am hearing from Arianna, Rachel Maddow, Josh and Keith about her and the Iraq answers…they want to box her into the corner to state she made a mistake but they conveniently ignore that it was Hillary that went to the Pentagon to find out about exit strategy and it is Hillary that is sponsoring the legislation to halt Bush’s attempts to expand our involvement in Iraq after he leaves…that is Hillary action on Iraq in present time, not Barak’s…so as far as I am concerned the MSM and Obama is just trying to hang on to the only criticism they think has any weight against Hillary…but it is less relevant in present time since she is now so pro-active to reverse the damage of Bush’s war, not hers.

    Rachel Maddow is really getting on my nerves…she is way too contrary for me…by any objective measure Hillary has superior command of the issues and is the one in control….

    Meiyingsu – great reviews…thanks for that quick post

  253. There are well over 100 million people in the 2/5 states, what is the viewership of these cable news networks, a couple or three million TOTAL?

  254. Interesting how MSNBC continues to focus on the Iraq vote. For goodness sake, some of us think there are more important issues affecting our country right now. They rarely bring up Obama didn’t do well everywhere else (immigration, poverty, health care, licenses for illegal immigrants, etc).

  255. when i listened, on every issue it was far and away hillary on substance – she had the facts, knew the policies, she does the work. she DID come off as more mature and ready to be president.

    hate to say this but i kept noticing while she was giving another detailed wonkish answer.. obama was sitting there looking serious in that very self aware way in which.. you can tell someone is concerned more about looking serious than they are about the subject at hand. 🙂

  256. Remember what the frame of mind was for undecided and Obama supporters. Hillary was this cold, ambitious b**ch and Obama was an inspiring leader.

    The visuals were the opposite. Hillary was warm and comforting with her knowledge. Obama was nice but stuttering. If you’re worried about your job, who do you want to help you?

    BTW, the phrase “control Bill” is nasty and rude. Control him from his AIDS program, his tsunami work, his global initiatives? Or are people about to lose their homes worried about sex in the White House? Yuck!

  257. I also think Blitzer received backlash from the audience for continuing to hit her with the Iraq vote. I think this is a good representation of how many Americans feel. We KNOW she voted for the war. We’ve known this for years. Why can’t we concentrate more on how we END the war rather than how Bush began it. I think people who agree with Hillary on everything else will forgive her for her misjudgment. Most of the country made the mistake of believing and trusting our president. I think most will be able to understand that she did what was expected of her at the time.

  258. I didn’t coin the term “Precious.” That would be Lou Dobbs last week referring to him as “precious Obama.” One of the few things I have ever liked about Lou Dobbs.

    Carby, yes. Precious co-opted many of her ideas and phrases. As I have oft said- that man has never had an original idea in his life.

  259. Realist: do you mind if I copy the email you sent to the DNC re. Michigan and Florida which you posted the other day. Its real good and I dont not have time right now to re-invent the wheel.

    Either way I do intend send them something–and tell them their present position of disenfranchment puts them on the wrong side of history.

  260. HillGuy,

    If that’s true then thank God that average Americans are working and/or have better things to do than watch pundits talk all day!

  261. I wonder if Hillary has something planned for tomorrow…like an endorsement or some other surprise to keep capitalizing on the good news from the debate.

  262. Wolf got what he deserved. It was interesting how he tried to push the Iraq judgement thing on her, because that is the ONLY part of her past with even a shred of weakness in a Dem primary. She is so strong everywhere else. Pitiful Wolf.

  263. “I never expected a knockout punch.”

    Not a knockout maybe, but when she defiantly said ‘they are accusing ME of surrender’, as in ‘they’re not even thinking about you, Barack’ — and Barack flinched. Did she bang on her chest like King Kong when she said that? I think she scored a clean hit on Obama’s head. There was this blast of fire that came out of her. Her body language said, this debate is just a courtesy — I’m ready for battle with the Republicans.

    Oh, I can’t wait until she’s President.

  264. AmericanGal, Bill was in NM with Richardson at a “Solutions” appearance. Maybe Precious brought up BR to try and make a last appeal??

  265. Canaan, that was a good moment but understated. I still think Precious messed up with the “execution” comment. It implies the troops did a bad job.

  266. I read somewhere…wish I could remember where…that at the time he gave his anti war speech…and was in the Illinois Senate. …that the majority of them were anti war. SOOO….for him to make that speech back than…didn’t take a lot of courage. He was basically following what his fellow legislators where doing. It is easy to make that stand…when everyone around you..is doing the same thing. It also explains why he didnt stand up for Murtha..when he had the opportunity to do. He has followed through with all the funding votes. It would appear …he goes with the majority. I find it rather a phony statement….”right from day one”….considering the circumstances.

  267. OkieAtty, that’s interesting about Bill and Richardson. I read a rumor last night that they were going to meet today. If Richardson isn’t interested in endorsing Hillary why would he appear at some event with Bill? Hmmm…..I think you may be on to something. Guess we will find out tomorrow.

  268. I am confused. Even Taylor has Obama winning on Iraq. I was always against the war. I concede Obama’s point that he is not connected with the vote, and rebuked the policy in public prior to the war. Hillary authorized Bush, and appealed for him to act sensibly, and that was a mistake. But, haven’t we heard that forever now? I mean, doesn’t Obama already have those voters? I’m more interested in who I see as best to lead us out, and that is Hillary.

  269. I think today was the day Richardson and Bill were meeting, and it is Obama who is in NM tomorrow, and Richardson is from out east, he went to college at Tufts, he’s very close to Kennedy, and Obama needs him more than Hillary, so I wouldn’t get your hopes up just yet.

  270. AmericanGal,

    That is a great poll that shows Hillary is not going to lose NYC! (I have read that so many times on this site by various ‘commenters.’)

  271. Maybe mj, but Big Dog is very persuasive and the Clintons are popular with Richardson’s base. It’s a win-win. Besides, what will Teddy do for him? How does it help Richardson? It doesn’t. Teddy is close to retiring and doesn’t like Precious better. He was just pissed about Hillary giving LBJ more credit for the CRA than Jack or Bobby. Truth be told the CRA was getting no where under Jack and it was LBJ who twisted arms and cajoled the legislation into being (albeit with the help of a newly martyred president). Teddy can be pissed, but going out on a limb for Obama was a shitty decision.

  272. OK

    time to keep our bleery eyes peeled for any info on 4th quarter/year end financial reports.

    Ready, Go Look. It’s report deadline time…look for leaks.

  273. I am just thinking…when Hillary gets the nomination…what the hell are all these ‘progressive’ pundits going to do and say…are they suddenly going to see the light and Hillary’s brilliance and control and command and start singing her praises or are they going to remain blinded by their emotion and criticize her against a republican!!! I cannot wait for that time…karma is an amazing phenomena…

    …btw…today I called the DNC and really gave them a strong reaction to seating the Michigan and Florida delegates…basically what in the hell are you trying to do? you are demoralizing the voters, especially in Florida after the 2000 fiasco when we placed such a value on counting all the votes…DNC is setting us up for a food fight before general election when we should be projecting unity instead of becoming the butt of jokes…get this thing settled as soon as possible and without unneeded negative publicity for the Democratic party/brand…DNC is very cavalier and ho hum about it…they need to be pressured big time…

    I also called Robert Wexler’s office to make sure he is working on getting Florida delegation seated…they seemed more concerned and active…however I really feel we need a grassroots or concentrated effort to make these people understand that this can blow up in our face if we are not careful…fooling around with Florida and Michigan is political suicide for us…we need both of those states to win

  274. Regardless of any personal opinion (in or outside of this blog) about this debate, I think everyone can probably agree that this event alone is not going to determine the outcome of Super Tuesday. People will probably find whatever they want through examining each candidates body of work and what each candidate offers and what they really want. I’m pretty certain that in an unstable world such as this, experience will win out. That is a win in my book and Super Tuesday is the *real* game. I think Hillary is going to be the next democratic nominee and the next President of the United States.

  275. Hey Chaz356

    We also need that bumper sticker that says

    “Pi$$ off the Media * Elect Hillary * By a Large Margin”

  276. A friend of mine now deceased used to say that in old age the mind is the second thing to go. All I can tell you is I dont take it all in as fast as I used to but thank God I can still file a supplemental brief. . . . .

    What I would say to you now that I did not say before is that the presentation tonight was just what it needed to be. Hillary was radiant. She was cordial to Barack notwithstanding the snub. And, of course, her command of the issues was clearly superior to his.

    She scored so many points for those who were listening. Remember the time that Barack implied she failed to do something and she told him she sponsored a bill on that in 2004, or the time she revealed that Barack had agreed to support her legislation on a permanent commitment on Iraq, or the way she pointed out that he too had had difficulty with the drivers license for illegals question, or the appreciation she had for labor market dyamics. So many other things.

    This was one more marvelous performance in what was billed by the carnival barkers as an event bigger than the Oscars. In a debate she never disappoints, and the same will be true when she becomes our 44th President.

  277. kaffleen: I disagree, I think that alot happened in this debate that went unnoticed. There were so many undercurrents with Hillary speaking to so many different people on so many different levels. It was a tour de force performance. I’ll go out on a limb and predict that this debate will go in the History books and be studied as a masterclass of debating skills.

    We’ll see on Tuesday just how effective she was, but, man, win or lose, this woman is brilliant.

  278. Excerpts from rather lengthy posting I am doing for another website, that reiterates what we have been saying about MSNBC, and was clearly in evidence tonight like every night. (Note: there are some excellent jounalists to whom this critique this would not apply.)

    Big Media has abandoned the traditional role of an honest broker and become a bitter partisan advocate. Consequently, they distort the truth, exploit race and gender fault lines, attack the qualified candidate, and worship the Golden Calf

    . . . . . . . .

    Simply put, Big Media has made a cynical business decision to distort the truth for the sake of ratings and to arrogate unto itself the role of kingmaker in the political process. But the more they try to mislead us, the more the American People begin to see them for the carnival barkers they have become and reject whatever they say based on the time honored principle of falso en uno, falso en omnibus.

  279. S: These pundits always think of some excuse for her success. After New Hampshire it was the “Bradley effect” and voter machine failure, after Nevada it was because Latinos naturally hate blacks so they went to Hillary, in Florida the 800,000+ people who voted for her were “irrelevant”. They’ll probably say that it was “luck” or that she did something illegal to win. They will never give her the 100% respect and credit she deserves for winning despite all of the media bias and attacks.
    ~~~~~~~~~~
    S Says:
    February 1st, 2008 at 12:12 am

    I am just thinking…when Hillary gets the nomination…what the hell are all these ‘progressive’ pundits going to do and say…are they suddenly going to see the light and Hillary’s brilliance and control and command and start singing her praises or are they going to remain blinded by their emotion and criticize her against a republican!!!

  280. Okie- I hear ya. But it is only the latest explanation for why Ted did what he did. More the deponent sayeth not.

  281. She was fantastic! And I think voters will ignore MSM like they did in Florida and NH.

    BTW – I am so HAPPY to have found this site! I’ve been screaming at the tube for weeks coz of the skewed coverage; writing letters to editors, emailing news executives, fighting to get Mathews to tone it down. I agree that her performance tonight was impeccable. She has such dignity, such honesty, such grace. MSM will continue to battle her for the WH but regardless of what happens, she is the real winner.

  282. Emjay – Was it you who said you had read Hillary’s actual statements when voting for the AUMF? Where can I find those?

    Here is a quote from a very good summary by a conservative writer.

    http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/article/view/?id=1336
    No Apology Needed
    New York Times
    David Brooks
    She sought a third way: more U.N. resolutions, more inspections, more diplomacy, with the threat of force reserved as a last resort. She was triangulating, but the Senate resolution offered her a binary choice. She voted yes in order to give Powell bipartisan leverage at the U.N.

  283. CNN Dem Debate Most Watched in Cable History

    Breaking: Last night’s Democratic debate on CNN drew 8,324,000 million total viewers, making it the most-watched primary debate in cable news history, and the second-most watched on TV this election cycle (ABC’s Democratic debate on Jan. 5 drew 9,360,000)

    The debate gives CNN the top five highest rated cable debates this cycle in total viewers.

    > Update: In the A25-54 demo, the debate finished with 3,257,000 viewers, the #1 take in cable news history as well.

  284. 5:00 news hour CNN leads with a 10 minute info-mercial (my phrase) of Obama speaking in NM . . . then turns to HRC and launches right into the iraq question,
    calling it a win for BO.

    Then he announces LATimes, Moveon.org and Charlie Rengel’s wife’s endorsements.

    I think I’m gonna puke. I swear there are times I don’t think HRC has a chance in he11. They’ve stacked the decks too high.
    Feedback, anyone? Some positive reinforcement?

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