Sunshine Sunday With Hillary Clinton

[Hillary Clinton will be interviewed on CBS’ Face The Nation this morning. We expect the economy and seating Florida delegates at the Democratic National Convention to be topics of interest along with the South Carolina results and the role of race in the campaign. We do not expect a discussion of the role of women in the campaign.]

* * *

After last night’s shameless Big Media cable hatefest (exceptions granted to Pat Buchanan and the mild peeps from Jeffrey Toobin) we get back to the issues which will determine the outcome of the Democratic Party nomination race.

Here is Hillary discussing the economy:

* * *

As we discussed yesterday, Hillary is fighting for the rights of Florida voters. The results, or rather the lack of recognizing the results, in Florida determined the 2000 election. The New York Times is tiptoeing its way into recognizing the importance of Florida in 2008:

By Friday night, nearly 350,000 Democrats had cast early votes, either in person or by mail, and party officials predicted that about 400,000 will have voted by Election Day. By contrast, just 97,000 Democrats voted early in the 2004 presidential primary, which was not as intensely contested. There are 4.14 million Democrats registered to vote in Florida.

The level of interest, if it is matched by turnout at the polls on Tuesday, could make the results in Florida more important for Democrats than they had assumed, given both the absence of candidates here and the fact that no delegates are at stake. The Democratic National Committee penalized Florida for holding its primary too early, saying it would not seat its delegates.

Along with the Democratic contest in South Carolina on Saturday, the Florida results could help set the stage for the almost nationwide primary battle on Feb. 5. Three days before Floridians line up at the polls here, the number of Democrats who have voted here has already exceeded the turnout in Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada.

“There is a race going on,” said Karen Thurman, the chairwoman of the Florida Democratic Party, who has been urging Floridians to defy the national party and vote. “And there will still be a headline: ‘So-and-so has won Florida.’ ”

Florida voters want to be heard. Florida voters are showing the determination to be heard by voting in huge numbers – a phenomenon usually seen in foreign lands after the collapse of a dictatorship and the birth of a democracy. Despite an embargo on discussion of issues and candidate visits, Florida demands to be heard.

The rush of Democrats to vote before Tuesday’s primary has come despite Democratic candidates having stayed out of the state in deference to the Democratic National Committee and a pledge they signed to the four states with authorized early contests: Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina.

Still, unlike in Michigan, the other state that defied the Democratic National Committee and went ahead with an early primary, the names of Mrs. Clinton, Mr. Obama and a third candidate, John Edwards, a former North Carolina senator, are on the ballots that Floridians saw when early voting started 15 days before the primary and on absentee ballots that were distributed as early as Dec. 15.

The United States is not a dictatorship – the people rule here. Freedom and discussion of issues and democratic competition cannot be embargoed by decree. Barack Obama is conducting a subterranean campaign in Florida while opposing the seating of Florida delegates at the Democratic National Convention. Hillary Clinton has many friends in Florida and supports Florida representation at the Democratic National Convention.

The Democratic surge here is hardly taking place in a vacuum. Mrs. Clinton has a network of supporters, including elected officials, who have organized get-out-the-vote efforts and are planning statewide victory parties. One prominent Clinton supporter, Gerald W. McEntee, the president of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, was headed here this weekend to urge union members to turn out for Mrs. Clinton.

“We have 26,000 members and we probably have a like amount of retirees there,” Mr. McEntee said by telephone. “We are going to have three or four meetings and give our pitch in terms of Hillary Clinton and ask them to be active in the remaining days of the campaign with the specific focus of trying to bring out three our four neighbors next Tuesday.”

Mrs. Clinton is scheduled to fly here on Sunday for two fund-raisers. Although the events are not open to the press or public — her aides said she would attend no public event that would result in her breaking her word — her arrival here the day after the South Carolina vote seems likely to produce coverage on Florida television stations and newspapers on the day before the vote. On Friday, her campaign issued a statement saying that she would urge her delegates at the Democratic convention this summer to seat the Florida delegation.

Even as Mr. Obama’s advisers have sought to play down the results, his campaign has bought television time on national networks that has been hard to miss on Florida television stations. Grass-roots groups who say they are operating independently of Mr. Obama’s headquarters in Chicago have also been organizing across the state, trying to encourage support for him.

Terry Watson, who heads one of the grass-roots groups, said his organization handed out thousands of leaflets promoting Mr. Obama and asked Floridians to vote for him at a Martin Luther King Jr. Day parade in St. Petersburg last Monday. Mr. Watson said his group was “the largest grass-roots organization” in the state and was preparing to help Mr. Obama should he win the presidential nomination.

Big Media will choose again to ignore reality, but the Hillary campaign is providing a reality break. The Obama campaign continues to dismiss and denigrate the importance of Florida voters:

“Here’s the bottom line: Hundreds of thousands of Floridians are going to vote,” said Howard Wolfson, the communications director for Mrs. Clinton’s campaign. “They have been watching this campaign, and their votes and their preferences matter.”

That has stirred concern in Mr. Obama’s campaign; a front-page poll in The Miami Herald on Thursday showed Mrs. Clinton with a sizable lead.

Mr. Obama’s campaign argued that the Florida vote is a meaningless beauty contest, given the absence of candidates in the state and the fact that no candidate will win delegates in a contest that both sides have increasingly viewed as a race for delegates, rather than states.

“Although Senator Obama did not remove his name from the Florida primary ballot because Florida law did not allow him to do so, Senator Obama is firm in his commitment to neither participate nor campaign in the Florida primary and its outcome has no bearing on the nomination contest,” Mr. Obama’s campaign said in a memorandum sent to “interested parties.”

Hillary Clinton has not been afraid to contest every election in every state no matter how difficult the odds. Florida voters are fully informed and will vote. Obama can run, but he can’t hide from Florida voters.

* * *

Hillary discusses the economy in the video posted above. Don’t miss the below video in the “Ask Hillary” series. In this video Hillary discusses, among other issues, the high incidence of suicide among gay teens. For those wondering why Hillary has such high levels of support in the gay community, this video provides and answer.


755 thoughts on “Sunshine Sunday With Hillary Clinton

  1. Thanks for the positive reinforcement, admin.

    CD99, I have concerns here about Vanity4hillary / January 27th, 2008 at 9:01 am

    First of all, this does not sound to me at all like a Hillfan. The language tips me off. Hillfans simply don’t refer to Hillary as “Clinton” and Rezbama as “this man” — “what I am hearing/reading is that Clinton does not have enough delegates to win and she will not win enough on super Tuesday to beat this man” –“And now the Kennedy’s has endorsed this man.” — “And if she does win the nm she will definitely have to put this man on her ticket”

    This is beyond a troll alert. It is either a very smart person trying to act dumb and thinking that we are — or a poser.

    Sorry, but the closer we get to SuperDuperTuesday, the more suspicious this makes me. 😯

  2. Admin, you couldn’t be more correct about that 2nd video. She has high support in the GLBT community because she is there with us on most of the issues and she knows her stuff and is a friend to the community. There is a GREAT video on youtube from the human rights campaign board meeting last year with Hillary. She is awesome. Type in Hillary Board Meeting. This is a wonderfu video.

    Can’t wait for Florida and Super Tuesday!

  3. BM…MSM.. if you are listening. Florida is a primary not a straw poll not a meaningless beauty contest . you
    would want us to think so but we know better. The delegates are going to be seated.

  4. Hawk, the best thing about Florida is that the MSM will have to give vote totals and Obama’s will be included. It’s not like Michigan where she was the only one on the ballot. When Hillary gets her expected huge win it deserves to be described as a “rout” just like with SC.

    Not trying to be downbeat here so please bear with me but Time magazine’s take on the SC results has a rabid pro-Obama spin and slams the Clintons. Has Time always been so obviously biased in it’s reporting–it was not a balanced article at all. It could have been written by the pundits on MSNBC.

  5. I feel we all need to come up with ideas to do more to help Hillary. This election is too important…please

  6. Yep. I hope it is a true blow out. The people need to see how he truly performs in a national race. When Florida gives its totals, we will, I predict, see her with a massive lead among women, Latinos (specifically Cuban Americans), older voters and she will do well with AA voters too. I think this, coupled with the regular white vote will propel her to a handy victory.

  7. admin

    what a great video of HRC’s exchange with young people, in particular, her outright deeply felt compassion in issues that face teens in regards to the GLBT community.

    these are examples that show HRC at her best. real compassion with real solutions.

  8. AmericanGal, There is an upside to it. The expectations are sky high for Obama. Florida could be absolutely anti-climactic…

  9. Yeah, since obama won the first in the south primary, or whatever, he needs Florida. He will lose Florida. This is why they are downplaying Florida. Too bad for his campaign. The Florida victory for Hillary will propel her to victory on the 5th and after.

  10. BM chortles about FL being meaningless and a “Beauty contest” (Although I bet Hillary doesn’t mind winning one!) because of decisions made by the party. Tell that to the VOTERS! They aren’t voting for DELEGATES, they’re voting for PRESIDENT!

  11. Um people are asking am i a troll ?One if I was a troll and anti Hillary I would not have a anti-barrack blog on my myspace
    Just because somebody does not play politically correct around here does not mean they are a troll.And I am not familiar with delegates and such since this I just registered to vote and i plan on voting for Hillary.Again sorry if I don’t know the nicknames you guys have for the Clinton’s.

  12. admin thanks for the Hillary video. This woman has so many soulutions to America’s problems. I just hope the voters give her a chance to solve them.

  13. Don’t worry about delegates. We are FAR ahead in the delegate count. We are going to beat him in every state on Super Tuesday but Illinois, and probably Georgia and maybe Kansas. Hillary has an amazing coalition of support.

  14. Vanity welcome to the board we just want to make sure that when Hillfans posts, that we are being fair. We don’t want to go down to the level of the Obamalamadingdongs.

  15. The campaign should totally ignore Obama, focus on Hillary’s message and court Edwards supporters and peel them off. They are philosophically closer to Hillary than BO.

  16. @HAWK
    Thanks for welcoming me here.I thought Hillary was suppose to be on meet the press?I see that old man Mccain flipping his gums.So this is the man that suppose to be able to beat Hillary?HaHa
    I can see his arse going into a cardiac arrest in a debate with him.

  17. Can anyone give likely scenerios where Hillary gets the amount of delegates or close to the amount of delegates needed for the nomination after super Tuesday? That 2,000+ figure is so high and looks difficult to reach since it’s not winner take all.

  18. The air in the Carolinas is notorious for its pollutants and for its pollen content. And once again I rise from bed with a sinus headache.

    Where is Hillary airing her advertisement on the economy?

  19. Face The Nation usually is opposite Meet The Press. In most of the eastcoast that is 10:30 a.m.

    Caroline, only 4 teensy weensy states have thus far voted. Obama needed knockout punches in those 4 states to even have a chance. Now we move to the big states. Hillary needs to win the big states, the bigger the margins the better. Superdelegates comprise about one-third of the vote. The quick answer is get delegate majorities in the big states, throw in some small states like Arkansas and Arizona and get the superdelegates. This scenario seems impossible for Edwards and very tough for Obama.

  20. Caroline,

    Nice get. That’s a sweat little snippet of Hillary, and it shows her state of mind on a tough night.

    Would’ve been nice if networks showed that post-results last night, instead of B-roll from Tennessee with Knives-sharpened narration from the likes of Joe Scarborough and Bill Bennett.

  21. BANG! She just said that she will be in FL on Tuesday. She is expected to win, I hope that she does give a victory speech. That should give her momentum and neutralize his SC win.

    I live in FL and I can tell you that the market down here is big. Telemundo and other Spanish stations will carry this.

  22. very,very good for hillary. media is going to go after fla like gangbusters to try to make voters feel they are unimportant

  23. That man that interviewed her did not seem like he liked her.I did not like his tone @ all.I think I am just not going to watch anymore news stuff.

  24. That man’s (Bob Scheiffer) been like that for a loooooong time!

    She was outstanding on Face the Nation, really sharp.

    Nothing new but nice to see!

  25. Democrats love the big dawg! 🙂

    It’s the Reichwing media that want him out of the way.

    Lori Price said it well …

    “The GOP-run media is making ‘race’ the issue in the Democratic primary, so that people are brainwashed into forgetting that Bush is carrying out genocide in Iraq for Exxon, Halliburton and Blackwater while trying to kill as many elderly, poor people and minorities at home, by turning over the National Treasury to same. Don’t fall for the media’s false front-and-center issue of race, to dissuade people from voting against sociopath John McCain, GOPervert Mitt Romney – or whichever Republican warmonger is on the menu – in November. –Lori Price”

    Link to Lori Price’s diary in the next post.

  26. I would like to see Hillary t alk about the potential disenfranchment of Fl and Mi voters. Stake this claim and draw the line in FL herself with a back drop of supporters. This will get attention. her % of voters will be scrolled across the tivs.

    Even though cable news media will try to discount it, many across the nation will see this as a signigicant. This is a good move. Let’s get Bambi and Edwards on the record stating or implying that they don’t want the votes to count in FL. In fact, her surrogates tomorrow should be pushing this and force Bambi to respond. Let this be her talking point tomorrow.

    What I see is Edwards diminishing again as he won’t have the many $$ to advertise or to visit many of the 22 TT states. I’m guessing that he will only campaign in about 4 or 5.

    Hillary, I believe will pick up more Edwards voters. I would hope that she can win CA, NY, NY, CT etc with commanding leads so that she can pick up many delegatees.

  27. ohhh come on ladies and gentleman. Have faith in Hillary. She is one classy lady. The truth will come out. Now to put things in perspective. Senator Obama is someone who votes “present” on his own bill…and the only one do to so. He gets confused as to what button to push to vote. He buys a piece of land from someone who is up to his neck in federal charges. He reads a great speech written by someone else from a teleprompter. I am sure that most of the Republican Senators are having visions of themselves….chanting “yes…we can” as he presents his health care plan..(Chuckle). Face it….he is an airhead

  28. Rasmussen:
    # Alabama: Clinton 43% Obama 28%
    # Georgia: Obama 41% Clinton 35%

    Something has to be done about Bill… He’s taken far, far too much limelight..and it’s time for him to stay on message and not saying anything remotely attacking Obama other than his record.

  29. media already targeting supertuesday, failing to even include democrat primary in floridda…constantly saying GOP primary in florida.

    folks i do not know if I can handle this!

    *passes cybervalium around*

  30. I just saw Hillary on Face the Nation. She was fantastic and in great spirits! She also amde news. She said she will be in Florida Tuesday evening. Florida is the true bellwether of the candidates’ support. Let us see who does well there.

  31. Jaz, the media is jusy trying to stop any examination of Obama’s record. They are trying to silence Hillary, Bill, and her campaign. We cannot fall for that. By the media standards, it is ok for Obama and his surrogates to attack Hillary in negative and personal ways. But, it is not ok for Hillary to fight back. See this true and funny post on Open Left by Big Tent Democrat on media rules regarding Obama.

  32. by Howard Wolfson, Communications Directorin News1/27/2008 9:38 AMIn the States:

    Today in Arizona, volunteers will call 100,000 voters during 33 statewide “Call Parties for Hillary.”. In Oklahoma, the campaign hosts six woman to woman phone banks in Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Norman, Muskogee, Bokoshe, and Stillwater. Yesterday in California, Hillary supporters participated in more than 250 “Bring Your Own Phone” (BYOP) parties and called undecided voters.

    If You Read One Thing Today: Nearly 350,000 Florida Democrats have already cast early votes, almost four times as many as voted early in the 2004 presidential primary. “The level of interest. could make the results in Florida more important for Democrats than they had assumed,” writes Adam Nagourney in the New York Times. “The Florida results could help set the stage for the almost nationwide primary battle on Feb. 5.” Read more.

    Devoted to Stumping for Hillary: Today in Chicago, Illinois, Rep. Tammy Baldwin reaches out to the LGBT community on Hillary’s behalf. In Mobile, Alabama, Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones attends worship services and campaigns for Hillary. In Pueblo, Colorado, United Farm Workers co-founder Dolores Huerta kick-offs off a week-long organizing tour, “Juntos con Hilary, Una Vida Mejor.”

    Making News: In Tennessee, the Memphis Commercial Appeal endorsed Hillary. “Clinton has the experience needed to step into the Oval Office at this critical time.” . In Connecticut, the Hartford Courant endorsed Hillary. In Massachusetts, the Worcester Telegram & Gazette endorsed Hillary. “The next president will face considerable domestic challenges, in health care, the economy, [and] education.Overcoming the challenges will require steadfast leadership – with no time for on-the-job training.” . In Alabama, the Montgomery Advertiser endorsed Hillary, “based on her grasp of issues, her impressive work ethic and her personality.”

    On the Trail: Today in Memphis, Tennessee, Hillary attends worship services at Monumental Baptist Church. Yesterday in Nashville, Hillary spoke about the future and took questions from an “energized” crowd of thousands at Tennessee State University. In Independence, Missouri, President Bill Clinton was “frequently interrupted by applause” while talking about the economy, health care and Iraq.

  33. dot48 – What’s new….

    Hillary should go to Florida on Tuesday Night imo….

    Is the face the nation clip on youtube or online somewhere?

  34. goodmorning hillfans, i think i mentioned it saturday but hillary is coming to hartford, connecticuit monday morning for a rally 9:30am to 11am. YAY!!! after work im going to tget thier ar around 8am to take a good position. i told my wife to grab a instant camera. she is dissapointed becase she stats school monday. she said “get me an autograph!” easier said than done!

  35. Jaz, we can’t let BM silence Bill Clinton and the Hillary campiagn. They want to protect “precious” Obama and they want this to be a coronation. They don’t want any fair look at his record. See a very smart post on Talk Left by Big Tent Democrat on the mew media rules regarding Obama.

  36. # TheRealist Says:
    January 27th, 2008 at 8:49 am

    About the same bump that he got from IA…
    How have endorsements affected the vote so far? Hillary has a huge lead in Ma. and OB was already endorsed by the Governor there.
    Ted Kennedy and everyone else in the party will be solidly behind Hillary in November and that’s what really matters…
    I’m not so sure of that. To be sure, he will get a bump, however, I think that due to the convergence of 3 significant events happening tomorrow and Tuesday i.e SOTU, GOP FL primaries and Hillary’s sure win in FL, I think by the weekend, his bump should begin to decrease, putting Hillary in a better position by TT. We’ll see.

  37. I think Hillary should start to put Wesley Clark out there talking about the Iraq situation. She needs a younger man too, to attract some of the men….what are the men issues???? I thought they were to same as anybody elses, but I think its going sexist here

    She needs a charasmatic younger man who will champion her cause, a white oprah

  38. I liked it that when asked about Bill she alluded to her own passionate advocacy for him when she was a candidate’s spouse.

  39. Vanity4hillary:

    What are you saying? Whatever you are reading, you should stop because it is hogwash. NOwhere have I read or heard that she won’t have enough delegates on TT and that she would have to accept VP. Everyone that I’ve heard even the Obamamites have said that no one will have enough by TT to lock up the nomination. I tend to slightly not believe this yet.

    Also, it is the opposite of what you say, mostly high income, educated folks are voting for Bambi and the ‘beer drinkers’ for Hillary.
    Also, what’s up with ‘this man’?

  40. it is obvious that Hillary and Bill Clinton still love each other and are their own best friend. Love it. South Carolina is yesterdays news and she’s moved on.

    I just want Florida to get some attention….

  41. Obama is lying again 10 to 15 years ago Reagan was not in power. Bush has been in power for the last eight years and Bill Clinton before that. How could BO get away saying “Republican’s are a party of Ideas over last 10-15 years?

  42. from

    ‘Mrs. Clinton is scheduled to fly here on Sunday for two fund-raisers. Although the events are not open to the press or public — her aides said she would attend no public event that would result in her breaking her word — her arrival here the day after the South Carolina vote seems likely to produce coverage on Florida television stations and newspapers on the day before the vote. On Friday, her campaign issued a statement saying that she would urge her delegates at the Democratic convention this summer to seat the Florida delegation.’

  43. Yes Jaz, this is not a co-presidency. Hill can and should run on her own merits, Dowd is right, if she’s a feminist then why depend so much on Bill?

  44. With due respect to Caroline Kennedy, whom I do love…

    I posted my personal opinion on myDD a few months ago that Bill Clinton was the best President I ever had.

    In my opinion, Hillary would make an even better President than Bill Clinton.

    If Hillary were running against John F. Kennedy today, I think I would choose Hillary over John F. Kennedy.

    “JFK was a great speaker but not so great as president. He gave us Byron White, amongst other things. The Bay of Pigs was a horrific fiasco. His lack of diplomatic ability early in his administration arguably led directly to the Cuban missile crisis which was the closest we ever came to actual nuclear war with the USSR – including nukes launched at us from our own hemisphere. Fortunately, by the time the Cuban missile thing happened, he had learned some hard lessons and handled it better than he handled the Bay of Pigs.

    Naturally he was preferable to Nixon, but that’s setting a low bar.” — Montague

  45. Psymac, Bush depended a lot on Laura Bush campaigning for him in 2004. Obama depends a lot on Michelle, John Edwards depends a lot on Elizabth. They are all outspoken. The only difference here is Bill Clinton is an ex-president and the media is intent on twisiting everything he says into a controversy.

  46. Right HG, I do in fact believe that Hillary will be even better than Bill, Chelsea’s right. Hillary is smarter, more disciplined, and will work better with everybody. Looking forward to her knocking everybody’s socks off during her first year in office, she will get so much done.

  47. hillary is running on her own merits. i don’t trust the media on the subject of bill. he’s too smart and i think msm is a couple moves behind. for one thing, i wonder how much time and resources obama use to win sc (when it wasn’t close) because bill was there, instead of going other places. it is great obama had offices all over, contacts in all counties and sent a lot of mail, ads, spent time, but if he was that assured of a win maybe it wasnt a good plan, because they only have so much money and time. any experts here want to weigh in on that?

  48. all supporters and surrogates of HRC should be relentless in shouting out florida! florida! florida! in the next 3 days. don’t let BM sweep this under the rug!

    terrondt – have fun monday in hartford..get a good seat, send lots-o-love and tell hillary hello for us. (hope your wife isn’t too jealous 😉 )

  49. I agree that Bill should campaign for Hillary. That is not in dispute.

    BUT, he needs to stop making the news. He’s not running for president. Secondly, it gives Obama too much ammunition for “old vs new”.

    Imo, we lost S.C. so badly because Hillary’s message was “lost” due to Bill’s attack on Obama – Giving Obama room to tout his own message and victimize himself. This CANNOT happen again. Period. Perhaps Bill should be banned from talking to the press?

  50. Yes TPS, but the controversy, weather right or wrong as far as BM goes, doesn’t matter. He’s distracting her from her message and diluting her impact, IMHO. There is a law of diminishing returns on using him, just a better balance is needed I think.

  51. Are you saying the Tribune didn’t endorse Obama or is that coming? It will be hilarious if the Tribune doesn’t endorse and Democratic candidate. That will be a serious knock for Obama.

  52. Bill clinton did a great job to call out BHO’s anti-war record in NH. Hillary did a great job to bring out Rezko in SC. Now going to TT, both of them can concentrate on positive message such economic.

  53. Yes Jaz, this is not a co-presidency. Hill can and should run on her own merits, Dowd is right, if she’s a feminist then why depend so much on Bill?

    This argument is a straw man uttered by one of her most famous detractors. This is a team and people who don’t realize that is dreaming. First rule of war, if you have an asset, you use it. Bambi has a HUGE advantage in the MSM, they spin anything Hillary says against her even if it is true. Why should she play on an uneven playing field when she has the experience of the only twice elected POTUS to help her. I do think that he should focus on the record of Bambi a bit more, but even when he does that the MSM cry foul and say that he is race baiting so they can’t win. In that case, she has to continue to use him even has TT fcomes around as she cannot be 2 places at one time and he can campaign for her in TT states that she can’t.

    I’m sure after everyone saw the MSM coverage last night, you would have to agreee that she is up against a huge advantage that Bambi has. How do you counterpunch the MSM who has the ability to paint the narrative that they want which incedently favors Bambi.

  54. It did, but one must remember that the Tribune is Chicago’s conservative paper. I am awaiting the Sun-Times endorsement.

  55. BTW, this is a bit of insecurity on her part or her advisors. As much as I adore Bill, she is actually more powerful and stronger figure in the long run. How much she needs him? I don’t think as much as they are using him.

  56. I actually suggested last week that Bill simply tell the press he will not answer any questions since they will distort it. They will leave him alone if no controversy, he can work more silently for her. She does not need the distorted image that MSM is wanting to give.

    shut up the press by not giving them the time of day.

    Bill needs to talk to the people, not the press, tell press to kiss off,, I agree with Jaz on this

    He can be effective without the press corp distorting. He needs to make it firm to him that he will not talk to them .. simple and to the point

  57. Oh pulchritude I forgot about endorsement. That happened like a week ago if I remember. ITA it will be interesting to see who the Sun endorses.

  58. i turned on cnn late edition and the opening story was florida, then interview with edwards, then the economy. florida coverage was more about gop primary but that is good anyway i think, since democrats voting the same day and should get a lot more attention.

    when does bill nelson endorsement get announced?

    also, a gripe about msm and blog cheerleaders for obama. whenever hillary critique his record, has bill campaign for her, or makes a smart move such as going to florida now and wanting their delegates to be seated, its “tearing the party apart.” whatever obama does he is “the Uniter” (cf talkleft). what bs

  59. Well I’m Mr. Joe Average voter here in Florida, not a straw man. And I can tell you I’m honestly worried about five news articles a day about Bill’s antics, and only one about Hillary. OK, if that’s a campaign strategy, I don’t get it, I’m voting for Hillary, not Bill.

  60. Clinton Runs Away with Massachusetts; Obama and Edwards Way Far Back: In a Democratic Primary in Massachusetts today, 01/24/08, 12 days to the vote, Hillary Clinton advances to a commanding 37-point lead over Barack Obama and 48-point lead over John Edwards, according to this latest SurveyUSA tracking poll conducted exclusively for WBZ-TV Boston. Clinton leads by 23 among men, by 46 among women.

    1.) Asked of 586 likely democratic primary voters
    Margin of Sampling Error for this question = ± 4.1%

    If the Democratic Primary for President of the United States were today, would you vote for…(names rotated) Hillary Clinton? John Edwards? Barack Obama? Or some other Democrat?

    59% Clinton
    11% Edwards
    22% Obama
    2% Other
    6% Undecided

  61. Admin:

    Wonderful and cheerful headline and cheerful story, after last night’s depressing Big Media Obamafest. I dont know why it was depressing- after all it was totally expected. Went into AOL political chat and was told I was a racist for not supporting Obama. Let them gloat until Tuesday- Hillary supporters will have the last laugh.

  62. Hawk, Unfortunately they did. They also talked about REZKO. They said he should come clean on REZKO but said it is not a deal breaker. I submitted my comments earlier while I was listening to “This Week” with George S.As you know it would be a surprise if he did not get the endosement.

  63. I feel like voters are flip flopping worse than some politicians. my own folks can’t make a firm decision, instead basing it on what they hear off msnbc and cnn

    God, please save America.

  64. I do think that Bill played an important role. Yes, it was ugly and call me a cynic but he had to be the agressive one as we saw when Hillary attacks, her neg#s go up and the media skewers her. Bill took the hit for her and she was allowed to stay above the fray and more importantly campaign in 5 other states.

    Moving forward, I don’t think that Bill will be on this same track. He had a job to do and he did it. He took Bambi of his message which was needed to be done to neutralize his momentum. That’s a fact! Bill playing rope a dope forced Bambi to respond and act just like another politician. That strategy worked imho. Good job Bill. Face it, the Black vote has left the station, that’s a fact. She will retain around 20% but if Bambi wasn’t stopped, his poll #s nationally would have gone up.

    IMHO, Bill took the bullet for Hillary, good for him I say.!

  65. Hi! I’m discussing this with a friend in the US and I really need cites. Can anyone help me with cites to show how Obama race-baited or used race in his campaign?

  66. The Tribune columnist John Kass (page 2 of today’s Chicago Tribune) has a colum titled “If you look closely, it’s plain: Rezko is Obama’s problem.”
    Here are some excerpts from his colum:

    “One image will surely involve the dream house that Rezko helped the Obamas buy. And another involves Rezko himself, about to stand federal trial in a huge political corruption case involving not only Democrats, but old bull Republicans in Illinois, with Rezko passing through the metal detectors in the federal courthouse.”

    ” “Dirt shows up more on a white horse,” a conservative political wise man who knows and likes Obama told me at breakfast the other day. “It doesn’t show so much on a gray horse. But on a white horse, it’s dramatic.”

  67. From our good friend Craig Crawford:

    The baseless narrative that Bill Clinton is race baiting his wife’s way to the White House took another turn on Saturday with the accusation that somehow the former president is not allowed to point out the voting history of a key state.

    Responding to reports that Barack Obama would win the South Carolina primary on Saturday, Clinton noted that Jesse Jackson won the state in 1984 and 1988. Cue the woe-is-us cries of neo-racism, hammering Clinton for stating a historical fact (though he did not mention that Jackson, a South Carolina native, won lower-turnout caucuses).

    Hillary Rodham Clinton’s campaign would not be out of bounds in noting that her African-American rival won South Carolina’s majority black primary electorate. And Pres. Clinton had every right to observe that black presidential candidates tend to do quite well on the state’s Democratic nomination ballots.

    Obama on Offense

    The Obama camp was smart to gin up any plausible rationale for sidelining or ridiculing the former president. For the most part, he is an asset for his wife, the New York senator.

    It was certainly brilliant for Obama’s team to enlist the aid of the news media in stirring up racial resentment against the Clintons – going back to New Hampshire when reporters and pundits promoted the bogus notion that Obama lost the state because of racism. That still unproven charge had to help Obama’s forces get the attention of African-American voters in South Carolina.

    But it was sad to see so many in the news media become tools for one campaign’s agenda.

  68. Right plural, but I don’t seem him as a weapon all the time, sometimes a liability. She’s not more confident? The way they are using him, that is if they are in control of Bill, just looks a little desperate to me. I just see her as stronger and better than that.

  69. Don’t worry about those nutjobs. They are going to eat their own on Tuesday and the following Tuesday. I cannot wait.

  70. What is Bill’s roll now going into Super Tuesday? Should he take a back seat and stay on message and do fundraising or go full speed ahead and call BO out????

  71. hawk, don’t write them too glibly. The point is that everything we say here is taken out of context to hurt Hillary. Wild-ass remarks, regardless of how innocent they may appear, can cause damage, as the DK post indicates.

  72. He should still give speeches for Hillary because he gets crowds, especially in Missouri and places in the south. He should probably just stay focused on the issues and I think the one difference between her and obama that need MORE pointing out is the 15 million he leaves out of his healthcare plan. Otherwise, we are a better candidate choice, so just make the case for her. I think he should go to Arkansas and have a mass rally for her there.

  73. Psymac: I live in Central Fl and use to live in S F. I have family members in Hialeah, Dade County(lots and I mean lots of Hispanics), Weston, Davie, Pembroke Pines, Hollywood (Broward County) and Boca Raton. I can tell you unequivocally that I believe in all my being that Hillary will carry FL unequivocally.

    You are forgetting that absentee ballots and early voting started a few weeks ago. They are estimated to be around 400k and I bet you most of them go for Hillary.

    My point is moving forward, I’m sure that Bill will take a less direct role in the press. Bill had to take on this role imo. When Hillary tried to contrast her record with Bambi, the MSM didn’t bite and they attacked Hillary. That is a fact! Someone had to do it and that someone was Bill. That’s a fact. Obama was quickly becoming a ‘movement’ which once the train leaves the station, it’s hard to derail. That’s a fact. Now you tell me, how Hillary’s camp could have stopped him any other way when the MSM is so squarly in his corner. It was a ncessary evil and while it has hurt her shortly, I stongly believe in the long run it will be a help.

    Yes, I would have liked for SC to not have been lost with such a big margin but’s the south and the MSM was stirring the pot with race every day. Consider that the other 50% of SC voters were b White, why no stories on their perspective or on a woman’s perspective?

    Those people who wrote those stories, many of them were Clinton haters imo and would have found another reason too pen a bad story on her.

    Let’s see what the polls say on Friday and the results of Tuesday’s vote before we make any sweeping pronoucements on Bill. All I know is in the exit polls, he is still popular.

  74. i missed the big media obama fest last night but hell it was saturday night! who watched that except political junkies 🙂

    frank rich is awful, i wonder how some of the nyt pundits can be so outright contemptuous (“billary,” dowd’s personal insults) when their own editorial board was for hillary.

  75. Look the campaign has played out exactly the way we tjought it would in early January. SC was always for Obama. There is no surprise here. The BM is always for Obama. We have known that for the last six months. There are day-to-day sdjustments to campaign tactics. A lot of teh media coverage is day-to-day noise. Strategically, we are focused on Florida and Feb 5. Given the situation the day before the NH primary, I would say we are in very good position. If you remember the stories before NH, it was all Clinton is going to skip Nevada and Sc and focus on Feb 5. Here we are having won, NH, Michigan, and Nevada and, in my view, well on our way to winning Florida. I would say that is an excellent position to be in going into Super Tuesday.

  76. One wonders if Hope08 is a troll intending to do harm to this site and to Hillary.

    As to Bill, I’ll trust Hillary to make the decisions there. The Clintons know politics.

  77. The Tribune also has another column by John Kass today on Obama and Rezko. (Title: If You Look Closely, It’s Plain: Rezko Is Obama’s Problem). Kass is a Republican and has no love for the Clintons, but he ends the column with: Rezko belongs to Obama.,0,2595072.column

    Kass writes about the photo of Rezko with Bill and Hillary from years ago:

    There was some buzz about it, but it wasn’t really a gotcha photo, and it really doesn’t help Barack Obama, that photo of Bill and Hillary Clinton sandwiching indicted political fixer Tony Rezko at some forgotten fundraiser.

    That won’t hurt Hillary. And she’s probably got some other images in mind — either real photos or word pictures — about Rezko and Obama that she’ll probably drop on the way to Super Tuesday

    One image will surely involve the dream house that Rezko helped the Obamas buy. And another involves Rezko himself, about to stand federal trial in a huge political corruption case involving not only Democrats, but old bull Republicans in Illinois, with Rezko passing through the metal detectors in the federal courthouse.

    Those are the images Obama must concern himself with. The Rezko-Clinton photograph wasn’t much.

    “I’ve probably taken hundreds of thousands of pictures,” Hillary Clinton told “Today” show host Matt Lauer. “I don’t know the man. I wouldn’t know him if he walked in the door. I don’t have a 17-year relationship with him.”

    Perhaps some of the Obama folks hoped that photo would help them — a play on the old Clinton strategy of pulling everyone down into the mud. But Rezko won’t stick to her. She scraped him off her shoe with ease.

  78. Bill Clitnon has played an important role for Hillary in the last few weeks. He has at least made Obama’s record an issue and all of the negative press has gone to him. If not for him, the same media would be attacking Hillary. This provides Hillary some room to make her case. Think about this, if Bill Clinton had stayed silent, do you think the BM would have given Hillary positive press? Do you think they would have let her discuss Obama’s record? The answer is no. They would have attacked Hillary instead.

  79. That is why you all need to be careful about what you say here. Your words are taken out of context and then twisted. It starts with those on here telling Bill to shut up. That is exactly what those haters are looking for and it looks like msm is getting to you since you all are already preaching their talking points. I just find it very sad really. JMO…..

  80. Jaz-there is an added dynamic between Bill and the press. But the explanation for South Carolina is mainly demograpic in my opinion.

    Question: didn’t we lose the AA vote in Nevada by approximately the same margin? But we won the state overall because AA voters were a not the majority of the electorate.

    Bill did not take on the press directly in that state, and did not engage the Golden Calf as directly as in SC, but he did make alot of noise about special precincts and took incoming fire for that as I recall.

    I think this was a phase in a strategy. He was acting as her surrogate so she could work the super Tuesday states. I believe his role will change now.

  81. I just have to ask. Is there some secret code here that we must never voice a worry or concern? This is an election process and I do not think that each of us approach the situation the same. We are vested differently emotionally and I think it would not be wise to suppress anyone. I dearly want Hillary to win but this is an election and none of us have a crystal ball that tells us who is going to come out on top, really. This is fluid and day to day actions by each party will and do have an impact.

    If this is a forum who only want the strong hearted then I suppose as a Hillary supporter who tends to worry I may as well bow out.

    I also have found it troubling lately that people get jumped on to as trolls if they even have a hint of worry.

    Just my opinions folks and I think I’ll go back to phone banking for Hillary and bypass the smell test

  82. Jas said:
    What is Bill’s roll now going into Super Tuesday? Should he take a back seat and stay on message and do fundraising or go full speed ahead and call BO out????
    I thnk that he is should be used in fund raising and campaiging. The first 4 states, a line had to be drawn if not, TT would have been a blow out for her. I think that he will take a more traditional role from here on it.

    I think that folks have short memories and have forgotten how the MSM refused and still refused to thoroughly vet him.. Even when Hillary brought up substantive contrasts, they shrugged. Bill had to do it. It doesn’t been that she has a lack of confidence, she would not have gotten this far if that was so. She wonn NH on her own and that I saw was one of the most difficult times in her life so I disagree with you. it’s interesting that the cocomparisons aren’t made of the blatantly racists things that Michell Obamba has said. They get a pass. That’s my point. You see Bill’s involvement as a liability, I see it as a plus. Politics are ugly and not for the faint of heart. You still have not laid out an argument( not you Jas, the ohter poster) as to how the Clintons could have used a nother method to stop the Obama rrain and momentum. Still waiting…..

  83. tibourones,

    Yes, I also live in Central Fl and used to live in LA. I’m not too worried about the MSM, look what happened in NH, lol. Really, I’m also not worried about her taking Fl and many others on 2/5, all this will be moot with her devastating wins and delegate count. Then I hope on the to the general election where she and her opponent will begin the real debate. I’m also confident at that point she will win even more over, there is no Rip match for her. She doesn’t need a ‘bad cop’ distracting from her message and her ablity to be a great president.

  84. about hope08 diary: hahaha. i read dailykos but ill be honest, it has gone off the rails, a lot of the even handed writers are on other site now like talkleft, mydd, leftcoaster because of crazy primary stuff, obama shills and hillary bashing all the time. even before that though it got a reputation for being pretty much an embarrassment. they hate most democrats probably more than they hate gop and repeat lies a lot and react to every single little thing like its the end of the world. i didnt even see hope08 diary go by and nobody cares what it said.

  85. admin, I just had to laugh when the Todays show showed that picture. I could just imagine Obama going to visit REZKO in his cell seeking advise and then REZKO gives him the keys to his house telling him to look in the bottom drawer of the oak table in his study. In there lies a picture which will bring down Hillary. Thus this picture. What a joke.

  86. brilliant analysis from archpundit: printing admin post and then writing “this is pretty lame.” that is all he had to contribute. hahaha

  87. We do not expect a discussion of the role of women in the campaign


    Kudos! This is a brilliant framing. I think that we should all try to work this frame into our posts elsewhere as appropriate, expanding it to include women’s issues in general, such as:

    In last night’s debate, their were questions about baseball. As in the first 20 debates, there we no questions about issues of specific importance to women.

  88. bill clinton should not be silenced. the only people who complained about bill were obamabots or hillary haters. if anything he should go HARDER at big media and take on BAWAK about his experience not attacking personally. SO NO JAZ, bill keep on riding hard for hillary because i want him to annoy big media.

  89. I don’t think anyone’s opinions except trolls should be silenced even if they disagree with you.

    We are onto phase 3 and another front will be openned starting with FL. The strategy imo, is to make FL an issue. All of the canidates names are on the ballots so even though MSM will call it a beauty contest, the average voter will note who came in first, second and third and by how many points.

    I agree with the person that she should shout FL,FL,FL as this win will serve to neutralize Bambi’s bump going into TT in 7 days from Fl’s vote.

  90. Psymac:
    She doesn’t need a ‘bad cop’ distracting from her message and her ablity to be a great president.

    ** I see that we are on the same page for most of our commentary. I agree that moving forward if nothing else occurs, his role should be decreased as ‘bad cop’, however, I think in the previous incidences, it had to be done. Tell me where in political history, one’s opponent gets called a racist just for openning their mouths. This is what we are dealing with now. Strange indeed.


  92. I will be voting tomorrow for Hillary here in Illinois (early voting). Rezko is going to have an effect here in Illinois.

  93. hillary lost sc becuase of the voter demographics favored a african american(50% of the dems total) bawak won 80% of them. DO THE MATH. i know my fellow african-americans and they will vote for the african american everytime if they think he has a real shot to win. supertuesday and florida obama will noy be able to get by on aa votes alone.

  94. psymac and tiburones, now that the media is at least discussing Rezko and Obama’s record, I think the campaign will tactically adjust Bill’s role. They had no choice given the continuing media love fest. Think of the situation we were in after Iowa. The media was crowning Prince Obama and were demanding that Hillary get out of the race.

  95. I am so grateful for this site and Taylor Marsh’s. These two blogs (besides my own!) seem to be the voice of reason!! I know I am sounding like a broken record but I just don’t know HOW the media can get away with this bias for Obama against the Clintons??? And I keep bringing up Joe Scarborough because HE is the one I’ve heard blabbing the most lately and HIS HATRED FOR BILL CLINTON is so overflowing, I think his head will explode soon! I see where someone wrote on Taylor Marsh that he actually said “F*ck” on the air? I must have switched over to C-Span to hear Hillary because I missed that! I don’t think I can stomach these three jerks on MNSBC anymore!!!

    I have to pat Pat Buchanan on the back for his FAIRNESS. I dont know if he likes the Clintons or not but he is is fair and objective. Someone said that the only one they hated more than Obama was Bush. Well, I HATE Bush but I think I even hate Obama MORE!!! How he can get away with all these things and is coddled and pampered by the media makes me sick to my stomach!!

    I just PRAY that Feb. 5th will hand VICTORY TO HILLARY so Obama will be out of the picture once and for all — GOOD RIDDANCE TO BAD RUBBISH!!!

  96. Tiburones: I don’t see Bill as a liability, I beleive that he can be bigger asset in fund rasing, I think the campagin will go far past super Tuesday and they are going to need more money (more than they budgeted for). So IMO, he should stay on message and do fund rasing. Thanks for your feedback!

  97. Always, Joe Scarborough is a right wing Republican elected in 1994 and he fought Bill Clinton all through the 90s. He still hates Clinton and it is laughable that he is anchoring coverage in MSNBC. NBC stands for National Barack Corporation.

  98. alwaysforhillary, you do not sound like a broken record to me. keep on chargin along and keep doing what you are doing. GO HILLARY GO. ANNOY BIG MEDIA AND THE HATERS!!!

  99. A good analysis by Anglachel —

    Myth – Blacks are Rejecting Clinton

    Please forward this analysis to those Media talking heads trying to create the false impression that Hill & Bill were responsible for losing the black votes. It is NOT true.

  100. Did you all see her on Face the Nation this morning? She was on message, focused, and in great spirits. It gave me a lot of energy. She will be our next president. I am sure of it.

  101. Tiburones,
    My argument is that the Obama ‘train’ was and is a fiction of MSM (for ratings, of course), voters are smarter than that, and that certainly showed that in NH, and will do so again in the next week.

    Yes terrondt, I agree, Bill is certainly valuable to to the campaign. But can’t she do more of the heavy lifting? Because, frankly I just love it when she gets tough, so presidential and inspiring (sorry obamalamas), the REAL stuff, no hope going on with her!

  102. My memory is a little hazy or I just never keep up with what goes on with the repugs but did Scarborough loose his sit in Congress or did he decide to to seek re-election?

  103. I think the campaign was right to use Bill in the manner they did in the early states. The light of truth needed to be shined on Obama, now it has been–and Big Media hates it.

    This primary has now come down to a contest between the twistifications of Big Media and the Hillary’s commitment to the American People. As for como se lama Obama if he did not exist, the press would have to invent him–as they did.

  104. is it me or is it a orchastrated campaign to keep hillary from the nomination? notice every week obama keeps dripping endorsements from from elected dems and prominent dems alike. somthing is going on here. anybody agree. i mean these endorsements don’t just happen all of a sudden. they seem to be planned ahead of time then plucked out to get effect?

  105. Actually, the Clinton White House (according to George Stephanoupoulous’ book, “All Too Human”) used to refer
    to NBC as the Nail Bill Clinton network.


    steve clemons with thoughts on c kennedy endorsement:

    Caroline Kennedy endorses Barack Obama today in an op-ed titled “A President Like My Father” and promulgates more of the ethereal mysticism about Obama being the new JFK. I won’t challenge Kennedy’s own preferences or her own assessment of her dad’s contributions to national life.

    But I will say that JFK, as significant a leader as he was, was a hard core Cold War hawk. He approved the invasion of other nations and approved of regime change as a tool of American foreign policy. While in the end, his intellect and the assembled high quality intellectuals he had around him kept the world from falling into a nuclear catastrophe with the Soviet Union, it was Kennedy’s youthfulness and his combination of hawkishness and Wilsonian rhetoric that helped precipitate a number of crises.

    Messing with the memory of any icon like JFK has its dangers — but while Caroline Kennedy may not want to feature these parts of her father’s legacy in her endorsement of Obama, I feel I must note them. Obama is a compelling candidate who must know that gravity operates even in the White House.

    Mysticism and gut will not assure our allies, deter our foes, restore confidence among our citizens, or make America regain its unique national and international character again.

  107. about buchanan, i do not agree with his politics at all but he seems totally alienated from gop at this point, i dont think he is trying to help them. some family of mine (we are all dems!) know some family of his and say he is a very nice person

  108. I have noticed a phenomenon which has often happened in my life.

    When Hillary is talking, people like Blitzer and Schieffer (are they the lead reindeer?) mutter yes, or ok, or something in the middle of her sentences that they don’t do to the men. This is the male ‘what I’m saying is so much more important, I need for you to finish’ syndrome. Unconscious, I think.

    I found it in social occasions and work times. There are times when a question is asked, a woman gives the answer, and life goes on as if she hadn’t spoken. Then when someone comes up with her answer, only a couple of people in the room will remember she said it minutes before.

    In Hillary’s case, the stereotype of the woman who talks too much is evident even in debates and interviews. I bet the men don’t even know they are dismissing her answers before she has said them. In the last debate, Wolf did it almost every time she spoke but I almost never heard it on Obama’s answers. Am I being too sensitive or is there not a gender difference?

  109. i refuse to have my input to this site pressured to fall within certain preset guidelines or intimidated by the likes of dope08, lurkers, trolls, etc.

  110. Here’s whats’s, what. We know the facts guys. We know Hillary won three in a row, We know her support among black voters is not eroding, we know that she wasn’t going to win SC because Obama did a good job in ground work as well as pushing the race memo. We know the truth. I’m also confident a lot of intelligent Americans out there know this as well. The truth is a really powerful thing and if we each do our part to keep reminding everyone of the facts, we will be the better for it. I don’t want to get muddled down in the spin drain of Obama and MSM. The fact is, I want a President, not a celebrity. Come Florida, the debate, and Super Tuesday…we will definitely have the upper hand. Last night, today, and tomorrow are all Obama really has left to savor. Let him enjoy it.

  111. freckles

    glad you heard that, too. i noticed it with HRC’s interview with matt lauer and this morning with schieffer. they both kept muttering, uh-huh while she was speaking, thus reducing the importance of what she was saying and trying to cut her off.

    it really pisses me off.

  112. i agree alcina, new people to this site love to dictate how hillary should run her campaign or try to get us to follow there ideas that don’t fit the vast majority of hillfans here. that does not fly here.

  113. Hold your nose and scan down the article page about BHO on This Week to the video section on the right-hand side of the page and this will tell you everything you want to know how BM (in this case ABC) sees the Clintons. I’ll not say a word and see what everyone comes back with.

  114. Thanks LJ, agree with you, the long view is that Hillary is 44, that’s it.

    And yes, Alcinda, this site I hope is the place to express our differences and opinions, thoughtful reflections, all in support for sure of Hillary. Not ditto heads,lol.

  115. A Kennedy endorsement will hurt Obama in the primaries. Remember, he is going after Republican-leaning independents for whom Ted Kennedy is the symbol of all that is wrong in the world.

  116. Jaz Says: Something has to be done about Bill… He’s taken far, far too much limelight..

    Taken limelight from whom? Those minutes would not be going to good coverage of Hillary, they’d be going to Obama or to knocking HIllary. Corporate media isn’t interested in Hillary on the issues, just on conflict (or on Obamamessiah). Bill manages to get a little time for issues, because they can make him per se a context of conflict.

  117. As to the interruptions while the senator is speaking, it’s media manipulation 101, and yes it is intended to disrupt, divert, & lessen the importance of what’s being said.

    The only one who can fix that is the candidate herself.
    A simple, “May I finish?” should most often do the trick,
    though it’d be priceless to hear someone (anyone!) hammer a Chris Matthews-type with an “Excuse me, you rather rudely cut me off after inviting me to speak on your show. Now may I finish? Are you sure?!”

    I should probably keep dreaming…

  118. Understand, MSM has to make this look like a big fight,, more dramatic then it really is, that’s why Hillary can be so on target the next day after SC. Look at The Daily Show, Stewart really nails it when he shows all the media hyperventilating over nothing, its just a big ratings game, got to get the ads.

  119. im telling you hillfans, this does not happen all of a sudden. thes guys planned to endorse obama way back when. there will be more obama endorsements to come. this is planned.

  120. Hillary has mentioned it, but needs to talk more about how she will use Bill as a roving ambassador. Afghanistan is going bad now as evidenced by our sending 3,000 more marines there. NATO countries are loosing interest. Bill along with Wes Clark could prop the people up more to allow their governments supporting NATO.

    Couple this with Federalizing Iraq (Biden Plan) and getting out, this will alleviate the animosity the European public has with the United States. They say – we elected George Bush twice. Gore and Kerry should have won those elections by wide indisputable margins. Could it be that a lot of Democrats do not know how to run national campaigns?

  121. Obama is the establishment candidate. The Democratic establishment and the big media establishment love him. Hillary is the outsider. Bill Clinton helped Ted Kennedy to get relected against Romney. He helped John Kerry against Bill Weld. Bill Clinton came out of a heart surgery and campaigned for John Kerry in Philadelphia in the fall of 2004. But, the Democratic establishment doesn’t like Hillary. You know why? because, she will bring real change to the party and to the country. With Obama, these guys think they can preserve their power. Hillary should say clearly that Obama is the establishment candidate and run an insurgent campaign from here on and go directly to the local media over the national media.

  122. anybody has a right to endorse anybody. but when it breaks so heavily to one candidate it sounds so fishy. like the deck is stacked against hillary from the start.

  123. TPS, truer words have rarely been spoken.

    It’s probably too late for the “Who is/isn’t the establishment candidate” debate now.
    That’s why the Obama-ites came out with that 1984 ad when they did (early) to establish Hillary as the establishment candidate, and attack her greatest strength (and Obama’s only real shot) as an agent of change.

  124. I agree with you terrondt! These guys despise Clintons. You know why? because, they are the only ones who have beaten the Republicans. Ted Kennedy couldn’t become persident. John Kerry couldn’t become persident. In their view, this Southern HillBilly comes and wins the presidency. They felt the same way with Jimmy Carter. That is why Ted Kennedy ran against an incumbent president and refused to hold hands with him in the 1980 Democratic Convention. Bill Clinton did it without their help.

  125. Following BHO’s appearance on ABC this morning, Lynn Sweet commented ” Obama has never agreed to be interviewed by any reporter familiar with the details of the Rezko-Obama links.”

  126. Psymac Says: this is not a co-presidency…..Dowd is right, if she’s a feminist then why depend so much on Bill?

    Obama is running AS a symbol but Hillary isn’t! She isn’t running ‘as a feminist’. She is running as someone who will get the job done, including progress on women’s and children’s issues.

    The Clintons are a team and always have been. “Twofer the price of one.” That’s how they did such a good job in the 90s.

  127. What if Gore endorses Obama? I’m not sure if any of these endorsements really change peoples minds. They just generate coverage for a bit. But I do think about what would happen if Gore would endorse and campaign for Obama in California etc.

    Am I just being too worried about nothing?

  128. Thanks Blue Democrat! For all the supposed progressive natures of these guys, they don’t want to deal with a powerful woman. But, they will, trust me, they will!

  129. i think it is hysterical john kerry giving advice, guidance and defending BO. what a joke, boys and girls..maybe when the weather breaks, the two of them can go wind-surfing together. the guy is a l-o-s-e-r.

  130. i don’t want to sound like a rightwing repuke on kennedy’s past. im pissed at him. i believe he decided long ago to endorse obama. this is why caroline kennedy endorsed obama sat. they took thier cue from teddy. now the rest of the kennedy family will fall in line for obama except RFK,JR. he has the guts to go against the grain.

  131. AmericanGal, Gore endorsed Dean in 2003. Look, what good it did for him. Let all these male politicians come out and endorse Obama. It makes him more and more the establishemnt candidate and makes Hillary the insurgent. I honestly don’t think this will make any difference and it will actually strengthen Hillary among voters. Gore and Kerry got their votes because of the coalitions Bill Clinton built in the 90s. Her best asset is Bill Clinton.

  132. obama is officially the black candidate. this started in michigan when conyers and his company of barack supporters campaigned for “uncommitted”. those were the barack votes. in nevada, he got majority of the black vote. sc was a given. come on, hillary knew coming in that the black vote will be all his. so she just made a token campaign and made bill take all the hits (don’t you love him for doing this?) so she can go and campaign somewhere else. let’s just accept that as a fact and

  133. Caroline – It will be hilarious if the Tribune doesn’t endorse and Democratic candidate. That will be a serious knock for Obama.

    That’s what happened with the local group in Chicago that helped Obama get ALL his opponents removed from the ballot in 1996. This year they didn’t endorse any Dem because they were split between Obama and Hillary.

  134. Look my friends, we have the whole establishment against us. The only people who are with us are the voters. I will take the voters against the establishment any day. Americans love underdogs. If Ted Kennedy and Gore endorse Obama, then who is the underdog? I think Hillary should embrace that mantle openly.

  135. Good Morning,

    I just wanted to add that I believe that the Clinton campaign should not silence Bill but that Bill should stop speaking to the press. All the press does is twist every word that he says to paint him as a racist or “enraged”. Bill Clinton is a great asset as a campaigner and a fund raiser. I believe that the Clinton campaign sees that the positives outweigh the negatives when it comes to having Bill in the campaign. He will be especially helpful on super tuesday because he is very popular in many of the states that are coming into play.

  136. keep on keeping on. he is the black candidate and media is fanning the race flames so that most AA will rally around him.
    some people i know from the community wont, and there are also some black people who are rabidly for him and will not be swayed even by facts. i have this female co-worker who while watching the news on rezko gazed longingly at barack’s image on screen. she was not listening, just looking at his image on the screen. imagine that, countless times over.

  137. terron… Did you see my earlier comments and the Link on morning Joke?

    clintondem99 Says:

    January 27th, 2008 at 12:23 pm

  138. he, like those who’ve come before him (jesse jackson, al sharpton) will be supported by the AA community just because. just like oprah. she chose him because he is black.
    thanks God, there are countless people in the AA community (terrondt, sugar) who can see through the hype and not buy the BS that he is peddling.
    hillary knows what she is up against and she will prevail. have faith.

  139. holy crap, i follow politics like crazy for years and had no idea about a dead female found in joe’s office.

  140. TPS, your post at 12:26 about Sexism and Hillary scares me to death. The lady that wrote the article seems to be for Obama, and she left the door slightly ajar for a Clinton victory, but she paints an ugly picture of the battle Hillary faces in this campaign.

    I’m not able to guess the depth or validity of her points because I’m a man who has no prejudice toward women. I can’t even understand the attitude of some men toward women. I just don’t know how pervasive the problem she described is in our society. After all, this is the first woman to be a serious candidate for President, so there is no precident to follow.

    Hillary’s battle to overcome the anti-woman feelings in this society is colossal. I hope her campaign has the answers she so badly needs. I can only admire her courage and hope for the best.

  141. Sorry about my long absence. I have been in the hospital the last 10 days. I should get out on Monday. When I had my first surgery four months ago, I knew there needed to be a second surgery at around this time. It took places nine days ago. It seems to have been a rousing success. It would appear this health nightmare has some to an end. I should be able to start volunteering for Hillary in a short time. Watch DCDemocrat unleashed.

    It seems to me hardly credible that the Obeasties should argue that students with tenuous ties to Iowa were being disenfranchised and then turn around and say we should ignore 400,000 Floridian Democrats. Hoisted on their own petard.

  142. I like the idea of Hill running as the insurgent candidate. The lone female candidate against the establishment and MSM. It certainly gives her the opportunity to turn the tables on Obama’s outside Washington talk. Also, it gives her the opening to frame her message as really the one of change against Obama’s embrace by all these Washington politicians.

  143. Welcome back DCDemocrat. Good news on the surgery and hope all is and remains well. Looks like you came back on a day everyone is awake.

    Great point on the voter/student disenfranchisement.

  144. Again, TPS, your post at 12:49 says “we have the whole establishment against us. The only people who are with us are the voters. I will take the voters against the establishment any day.”

    Agreed, but those same voters may have no idea of what is happening here. Maybe they don’t even care, but I would certainly like for some effort to educate them about it. The media is trying to destroy her campaign simply because she is a woman.

    I’m dreaming, but I can hope for a 527 type advocacy group launching a national campaign on that point. Let them describe how the media is trying to tell them how to vote.

  145. Well, I got back from my movie and saw the results last night. Wow, I really thought it would be closer than that (snip – bitch, complain, moan – snip).

    There is a racial chasm that is bigger than I originally thought. This indicates to me we have more work to do. I should have been calling California and other states last night and talking to friends and family about Hillary instead of watching a movie. Time to roll up the sleeves and get to work.

    Hillary needs each and every one of her supporters to chip in and make Super Tuesday the huge win we need. We don’t want this to go to the convention folks. We need to win on the road. Time to get to work and do anything and everything possible.

  146. Anduril919 Says: Can anyone help me with cites to show how Obama race-baited or used race in his campaign?

    I don’t have time to look up the dates, but MIchelle began using it in an interview with ?Brezhihev? ?MSNBC? very early: talking about AA’s not coming round to support him yet becasue of effects of slavery etc etc. Ithink she has been talking like that all along.

    Obama began his campaign talkng about his race: son of a goat herder in Kenya etc. His supporters often talk about it being a message to the world to see a black face victorious (esp Chris Matthews before the Iowa caucus).

    A Hillary staff person talked about cocaine use which Obama ADMITTED in his first book, and Obama’s people invoked racism by saying it was racist to mention cocaine! They have said that about many perfectly innocent words.

    After the NH upset, some media person tried to explain the difference between polls and actual votes as a “Bradley effect”, ie a claim that a Black person did not draw the expected votes because people must have been lying to the pollster.

    Hillary compared herself to LBJ and Obama to MLK and people said that was an insult to MLK. 🙂 Well, I’m obviously too simpled out to post about this right now. But quite a few old Black leaders who knew MLK said she was right, including Jesse Jackson Sr iirc.

    Really, all that ‘vernacular’ Michelle and Obama use is callilng on race, and often explicitly, like saying “There ain’t no black folks in Iowa.”

    How soon do you need these cites? Might search for my posts here and elsewhere. I’ve got some at of the black leaders defense at and maybe some at
    h t t p : / /

  147. Bill Maher: Bill Clinton is down there in South Carolina playing the bad cop. … This is what the pundits say. He’s injected race into the campaign to let people know Obama is the black candidate. You mean, before that people hadn’t noticed? “Say Bob, is Barack Obama black?” “I don’t know, ask Phil. He follows politics.”

  148. Terrondt, you are right that the endorsements are timed. Kerry said he had endorsed before Iowa but the campaign told him to wait. Obama was so arrogant thinking he would win New Hampshire he waited to announce the Kerry announcement until after New Hampshire in order to create a “wave” of momentum. When Obama lost the Kerry endorsement was a dud. [dumb move by Obama campaign]

    Likewise the Kennedy endorsement. [the Kennedy endorsement before New Hampshire would have been especially important because he could have sent his organization into New Hampshire]

    Big endorsements might have helped before Iowa or New Hampshire but now they are just noise. Tomorrow is State of the Union night, then comes Florida. Hillary will be in Florida on Tuesday night as announced on Face The Nation. Wednesday news will be about the Tueday results and about Thursday’s debate. The news cycles are almost on autodrive now.

    Endorsement are not going to determine or really influence anything anymore. It’s too late. The game from now on is the demographic profile of upcoming states and the get out the vote groundgame. Even the candidates are increasinly less important – with over 20 states voting the candidate teams and organizations will matter more.

    Democrats will listen to the Kennedy endorsement but it will not determine their votes. Other than the NYTimes, newspaper endorsements will continue to diminish in value too.

    This video will make the rounds too:

  149. Sherm Keder, I think we all know the long odds against Hillary. In spiite of this, she is doing well! If Obama has gotten the kind of negative press Hillary had gotten, he would have long ago folded. The point of Jessica’s article in the Tribune is to say that while AA, appropriately, feel pride in the possibility of the first AA president, women are a lot more ambivalent. Sexism is deeper in the world than even racism. I am extremely confident that Hillary will overcome these obstacles and be the next president of this country. We can all meet in Jan 2009 for her inauguration. It won’t be easy but it is going to happen. let us keep faith.

  150. Maybe here is an idea that can help to counter BHO and win this thing. We all know every time anyone finds anything about him to criticize, either he or his surrogates (like Media) charge racism. If Hillary tries to contrast her record with his, it’s racism. Okay, let’s do the same thing.

    If anyone, from Obama through the media find any fault with Hillary, let’s accuse them of sexism or mysogony or anti-feminism or whatever is the most effective term. BHO does not worry about being accurate when he charges racism, so we don’t need to be 100% accurate either. Just most of the time will do. Hey, if Bill is attacked with the charge of racism, let’s complain that the reason he is attacked is sexism directed against Hillary and/or her surrogates.

    Let’s go all out to hit them every time and to hit them hard. Bill should begin to complain about it. Other surrogates should raise it at every possible opportunity. Let’s make sexism just as big an issue, if not bigger, as racism. This seems so obvious to me that I don’t know why we haven’t been doing it already.

    If I’m wrong about this, somebody please tell he how I’m wrong. I just don’t think I am wrong. In fact, I know I’m not.

  151. Hillary Clinton proved that she can turn out Democratic women. An astonishing 61% of all primary voters yesterday were female. Obama was able to gather 54% of those women voters thanks to his winning 76% of the female black vote. But Hillary picked up 42% of the white female vote to Obama’s 20%, a clear indication that in states where the African American population isn’t quite the decisive factor as it is in South Carolina, Hillary will do very well.

  152. wbboei Says: Question: didn’t we lose the AA vote in Nevada by approximately the same margin?

    So I’ve heard, or actually Nevada was a slightly higher margin. And that fits with some polls (exit polls?) taken in Michigan. So AA support for Obama seems almost at a fixed percent, and the difference is how many AA’s there are in the state and how many turn out to actually vote.

  153. Craig Crawford has another intelligent column today which also touches on Kennedy:

    How the media destroys Obama:

    Talk about killing with kindness. Supporters of Barack Obama should be wary of the news media’s feverish gushing for the Democratic White House hopeful.

    For starters, it was media romanticism – not Hillary Rodham Clinton’s hardball campaigning – that made Obama the “black candidate.” This happens, albeit unwittingly, every time a journalist waxes poetic about the historic step forward of seeing an African-American in a viable run for the presidency. (And yet, when Bill Clinton talks about Obama’s appeal to black voters, it is decried as “injecting race.”)

    Obama also runs the risk of a backlash against the media being seen as force feeding him to Democratic primary voters.

    In South Carolina, the anti-Clinton media frenzy might have suppressed Obama’s white vote as much as any other possible cause – although many appeared to move toward John Edwards instead of Clinton. A similar backlash against media overkill probably contributed to Obama’s last-minute loss to Clinton in New Hampshire.

    The Washington press club’s love affair with Obama allows many of a certain generation to indulge the fantasy of returning to their youth as starry-eyed believers in John F. Kennedy and Robert F. Kennedy. Hence, the voluble response to Caroline Kennedy’s endorsement in today’s New York Times and the trembling expectations of a similar move by Sen. Ted Kennedy.

    Still, Obama could be excused for welcoming media group think that has gone stark raving mad for his candidacy. But in the long run he might be well advised to dismiss the hype and build a relationship with voters that remains independent of what fickle journalists say.

  154. Jaz and Psymac, I think you’re missing the point of what Bill was doing in SC. Why would she send him to a state she has no chance in hell of winning? To make Obama spend money there, and to serve as a distraction. She knows Obama’s spending money way too fast, as MJS’s post in the last thread noted. And to make him spend precious time and resources in a state he had locked up is smart, IMO.

    Obama got about the same percentage of the AA vote he received in Iowa and NV, while he received only a quarter of the white vote. Bill’s campaigning there had zero or little effect on the outcome. Does anybody really think Bill’s “confrontations” with the press were anything but planned?

    Bill did his job in SC, and did it well.

  155. Just for information…wouldn’t some endorsements help get super delegates to a candidate if the convention is brokered? How much clout do they have or have not?

  156. I think Obama has bamboozled SC. He is well on his way to hoodwinking some others. I see an interesting thing here, besides the obvious racial one. Obama supporters, no matter skin color, are voting with their hearts and not their minds. This is dangerous for America. When I look back on my life, there is only one time that I don’t regret having made a decision based on my heart. I don’t think Obama is going to be President, but the thought of that really scares me.

  157. Paula: I agree with you regarding BO staying in SC and spending time and money. I made that same comment yesterday. The Clinton Machine knew what they were doing. I mean BO had SC locked up, but he stayed there and spent $$.

  158. Ted Kennedy’s endorsement is not going to hep in his be a democrat for a day scheme. The numbers for Minnesota and Wisconsin I have are old:

    SUSA: Clinton v Romney= 56%-33% MN
    Clinton v Romney= 50%-41% WI

    No Numbers on Primary Though.
    Those are the only numbers I could find out of those states.

  159. I have to wonder what Edwards is up to. His remaining in the race helps Obama more than Hillary. I’m sure this is obvious to him and his campaign.

  160. I know some people want Bill to keep on bashing Obama –> But umm… It’s not getting results? The result being getting Hillary votes.

    Ted Kennedy rumour has been a round for a while, lets hope Al’gore isn’t so crazy…

  161. The rumor is that Al Gore believes he is in a world position and elite status (Nobel Peace Prize) that prohibits him from endorsing either candidate.

  162. to kaffen: edwards has nothing else to do, he is obsessed with being a candidate for president – look at his eyes, scary.
    is he hurting hillary? nope. only in sc, because he was born there. it was an emotional vote for one of their own, and it wasn’t even a lot. so there.

  163. This has GOT to be the quote of the day, if not the week, by Chuck Todd on Meet the Clinton Haters:

    he somehow drove White voters to John Edwards


    Gee, it couldn’t be that Bambi played the race card and revved up the bigots.


  164. Is American too Racist for Barack? Too Sexist for Hillary?

    I’m still stuck on the idea of campaigning against sexism. The article above was published in 2006, but it seems to tell it very well. There were lessons to be learned in that article, and BHO may have been the only one to learn them. The article is much too long to post here, so I urge you to read it.

    This gives a good look at the attitudes each candidate had about themselves prior to the campaign. It contrasts the question of racism and of sexism.

    It appears BHO is using this stuff to his advantage while our side just keeps taking it on the chops.

    We can fix this thing!

  165. Psymac- Dowd is a professional liar. If she is claiming that Hillary cannot use her husband as a surrogate to her candidacy, and still be a feminist, then she is posing one more false dichotomy- which are MODO’s stock and trade.

    If Hillary did not have to fight Big Media, the Republicans and two scurious opponents all at the same time, plus figure out how to clean up the Bush mess and help the middle class get back on its feet again, then she would do it all by herself. The difficult she can do now; the impossible takes time.

    It is increasingly clear that Big Media is betting that Mecken was right when he said that nobody ever went broke (or lost an election, or ratings war) underestimating the intelligence of the American People. The notation above NBC= Nail Bill Clinton reveals their game, and as I noted above it is the game that ruins nations.

  166. Okay, I have to ask this, what is it with Edwards blinking all the time? I have never seen a man blink that much in my life. I ask this seriously too, does he have light sensitivity or what is the cause of that?

  167. Being a nobal peace prize holder don’t stop you from endorsing people….

    Al Gore won’t endorse Obama, that would be a deathblow, and also disrespectful giving he served as VP under Bill.

  168. Sherm Kader, did you read the article LJ linked to? The reason Hillary can’t call it out is because she is immediately accused of playing the gender card. It’s socially acceptable to be sexist not racist.

  169. Hawk, I am from Minnesota and I don’t know why we don’t have any recent polling here. It’s really odd….I know I haven’t recieved any phone calls at all from any campaign.
    The last poll was from Oct. 07 Hillary 47% Obama 22% (Minneapolis Tribune). We tend not to be obsessed with primaries here. I have been told the numbers attending are usually low but I would expect a bigger crowd this time for the caucus. I will be attending the first time.

    Here is a list of all the Minnesota politicians supporting Hillary:


    James Metzen, State Senate President, South St. Paul
    Barb Johnson, City Council President, Minneapolis
    Bill Luther, former U.S. Member of Congress
    Don Betzold, State Senator, Fridley
    Scott Dibble, State Senator, Minneapolis
    Ann Lynch, State Senator, Rochester
    Linda Scheid, State Senator, Brooklyn Park
    Yvonne Prettner Solon, State Senator, Duluth
    Dan Sparks, State Senator, Austin
    Steve Larson, Mayor of New Brighton
    Tim Willson, Mayor of Brooklyn Center
    Patsy Green, Robbinsdale School Board
    Erin Murphy, State Represenative, St. Paul
    Carolyn Laine, State Representative, Columbia Heights
    Bernie Lieder, State Representative, Crookston
    Bev Scalze, State Representative, Little Canada
    Janice Rettman, Ramsey County Commissioner
    Kathy Nelson, City Council Member, Eden Prarie
    Tom Dicklich, Former State Senator, St Paul
    Shelia Kiscaden, Former State Senator, Rochester
    Mary Jo McQuire, Former State Representative, Falcon Hts
    Alan Patton, Former State Representative, Sartell
    Gene Wenstrom, Former State Representative, Elbow Lake
    Rebecca Yanisch, Former State Commissioner, Minneapolis
    Susan Vento, Educator and health advocate
    Shannon Miller, Coach, UMN Duluth Women’s Hockey Coach
    Pam Donato, NALC (Letter Carriers) Branch 9 (Mpls) President
    Rod Hogetvedt, IUPAT (Painter & Allied Trades) Local 61 President
    Roger McClure, NALC Branch 29 Retirees
    Dirk Ostertage, Theatrical State (IATSE) Local 13
    Steve Preble, AFSCME Council 65 Business Agent, Nashwauk
    Perry Schmidt, NALC Branch 28 (St Paul) President
    Shelley Seeberg, Area Services Director, AFSCME
    Marty Strub, Sheet Metal, Air, Rail and Transportation Workers Local 10
    Claremont Anderson, Grant County DFL Associate Chair
    Joyce Banaczek, Former SD 60 DFL Chair
    Jamie Edwards, Native American activist, DFL State Executive Committee
    Norma Hanson, Marshall County DFL Associate Chair
    Rodney and Carolyn Hatle, Steele County DFL activists
    Diane Ista, Norman County DFL Chair & former 7th CD Associate Chair
    Del Jenkins, DFL State Affirmative Action Co-Chair
    Ken Kelash, Former SD 63 DFL Chair
    Vincent Lynch, Mower County DFL State Central Committee member
    Robin Madsen, 4th CD DFL Associate Chair
    Janes Miles, 2nd CD DFL Secretary
    Skylark Miles, 2nd CD DFL Affirmative Action Officer, Inver Grove Hts
    Mary Moen, Olmsted County DFL activist
    Lillian Ortendahl, Todd County DFL Chair
    Rosemary Rocco, DFL and Feminist Activist
    Nancy Schumacher, 6th CD DFL Chair, Elk River
    Laura Ness, First Lady of Duluth

  170. Yeah, I have a friend that went to work up there in Minnesota and he says most people are just amazed we have a presence there like they don’t know this is going on.

  171. Okay. I bow to your greater experience and wisdom. I admit I don’t fully understand the nature of sexism in our society.

    In passing, I want to say I actually wanted people other than Hillary making the charge of sexism.

    Thanks, everybody.

  172. Sherm, it’s not about greater experience and wisdom. Misogynism is much more accepted than racism. Some Misogynist would even realize they are misogynist (lol).

  173. Michigan and Florida should be heard and I think they will. Disenfranchising voters because of politics, I hope, would not be acceptable at the national level.

  174. MI, won’t be, because not all candidates were on the ballot. Imo.

    Kaffeen, are you kidding, the media will not support HRC (on any issue..right or wrong). Including the delegates for FL.

  175. “Meet the Clinton Haters,” LOL!

    admin, Could you write about Obama’s spending? No one else has commented on what MJS said in the previous thread about him spending it like a drunken sailor. If that’s the case, then that absolutely explains why Bill was in SC, to make him expend precious, shrinking resources.

  176. Sherm, I don’t necessarily disagree with you. I only mean it is not so easy for Hill’s people to discuss sexism as it is for Obama’s people to discuss racism.

  177. Jaz, again you have no idea what you are talking about. Enough people voted for “uncommitted to recognize it as a real contest. Very few people who understand politics think those delegates won’t be seated.

  178. clintondem99…
    You keep accusing people of being trolls? Grow up, and accept different schools of thoughts and ideas.

    What I’m saying is that Al gore, who was VP of Bill, would be a deathblow to the HRC campaign IF he endorsed obama. However, like I stated above… ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Al Gore has better things to do – He’s been focusing on other areas for a long time.

  179. mj, The rules say that it only needs a simple majority of convention delegated to seat them. You are right.

  180. clintondem99, I think Jaz means a death blow to Gore’s reputation.

    BTW, now we know why Ted Kennedy was telling Bill he wasn’t acting like an ex-president should (in that recent Newsweek article). Because he was going to endorse Obama anyway. I’m with hwc on this. A Ted Kennedy endorsement is no help with indys and moderate Repubs.

  181. mj – Very true, but the media will raise issue with that (wrongfully) imo. Probably not with florida though. Florida should be seated.

  182. clintondem99: jaz probably meant deathblow to barack like what happened to dean when al gore endorsed him.
    regarding this troll alerts: please stop. we are here because we want to express our opinions and support for hillary in a mature and open environment. some opinions may not run parallel to the commonspeak, but that does not negate the fact that we are all for hillary.

  183. Jaz, He endorsed Dean in 2004. Dean did not get the nomination. I wrest my case. That is the first time I called you a Troll. You sound like one.

  184. OK, You clarified that, Jaz. I don’t think any endorsement is a ever a death blow to a campaign, however. It would hurt, yes, but not be fatal.

  185. Hawk, you can reassure your friend in Minnesota that when the general election rolls around Minnesotans will be plenty fired up and focused. We usually have the highest voter turnout in the nation. I think that we just tend to be reserved in our candidate support here–maybe it’s because of our “Minnesota Nice” heritage. We don’t get into rabid back and forth political arguments with people or bamboozled by the media hoopla of campaigns but we will be there when needed for voting.

  186. imagine44:

    She explained it herself:
    What I’m saying is that Al gore, who was VP of Bill, would be a deathblow to the HRC campaign IF he endorsed obama.

  187. sherm

    remember how the MSM accused HRC of playing the gender card after the philadelphia debate? MSM twisting words into the boys ganging up on her, her wellesley speech a couple days later regarding the boys club, etc. it was distorted and used against HRC as playing the gender card.

    we all know what’s going on, sherm and it is extremely frustrating.

  188. Paula, Al Gore has no reputation left anyway. He went far, too far, with his green agenda. Here in the UK he got slated by the press for giving schools misleading information on a video tape.

    The media would have a field day over an Al gore endorsement over obama. Is what I’m saying…. It’s not good. Outside our “hillaryis44” bubble, the media is the biggest determining force in these primaries. We need to think outside the box, as to what would be positive for HRC in the media (who already seems to hate her). I expect a positive message from Hillary in the next 9 days. Media Blitz… I hope.

    Anyway…why are we discussing something that isn’t going to happen?

  189. No, JAZ, it would not be a deathblow. That is crap. The people it would influence are the far left kooks who hate Hillary anyway.

    Jesus I get sick of the handwringing around here. ALL OF THESE ENDORSEMENTS were already in the bag. Long ago. Hillary probably already knew about every one of them – LONG ago. She and Bill are not stupid. People need to stop panicking with “OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!!” every time one comes out.

  190. Everyone has a right to their opinion. I think it is pretty obvious who supports Hillary and who doesn’t, but even if they don’t, as long as their opinions are voiced logically, I actually think that can be a positive thing.

  191. I agree with one of Jaz’s points. First, HRC message needs/should be positve for the next 9 days. Additionally, HRC needs to keep being open with the press and give as meany interview (there free)!!!

  192. clintondem99

    now you’re joking…can’t use initials HRC? guess that removes me from the “friends” list.

  193. ITA HillaryforTexas. Sometimes I feel like I will rather watch MessNBC than be here. I am going to take a break from the board and be back later. Hopefully, we will have returned to regular scheduled programming by then.

  194. Another thing to keep in mind: Pundits blaming Bill for Hillary’s SC loss only takes credit away from Obama. Bill willingly became a scapegoat FOR A REASON. They played the media for the fools they are.

  195. clintondem99, why persist in such nonsense, you are far too sensitive. and BTW, i’m a he.

    I used “deathblow”, because having so many big endorsements for Obama will give him a momentum which could tip the balance. I am not saying this is going to happen. Because, I don’t expect Al Gore to endorse anyone..and If he did, it would be for HRC. I hope this helps explain my reasoning, but I don’t set out to have perfect language when replying to posts that take less than 1 minute to type. 🙂

    HRC, must milk the media, daily interviews at peak times would be good. 🙂

  196. clintondem99: i stand corrected as to what jaz meant. but i guess based on his explanation that he is wrong. all these endorsements will run through the news cycle and lapped up by the BM until the next wave of “news” comes around.
    jaz: al gore endorsed dean and it didn’t do shit to him in iowa. kerry endorsed obama, still didn’t help him in nevada. kennedy was an alsoran for president awhile back, guess what happened? the kennedy legacy is not the same, and they’re trying to latch on to barack because he is the new “in” thing. now who’s using who? politics as usual.

  197. I love Minnesotans. They are sweet people, plus there is this gorgeous guy I work with from Minnesota, so needless to say, I like y’all up there. My neighbor to the north down here in the stubborn, old people state of Iowa 🙂 I visited a town called Farmington, Minnesota about 6 or 7 years ago (I was like 13), and it was cute.

  198. Paula, I think you are correct. Everyone needs to watch what happens over the next few days. I’m sure we all will see Bill talking and supporting his wife in a different manner than in SC. They are playing chess at this time and know what they are doing. Also, despite the endorsements for Obama I’ll bet Bill and Hill have some special things planned too.

  199. h4t..THANK YOU..btw didn;t kennedy endorse kerry..that worked seems to me the primary reason for these endorsements now is to use their ground troops..anyway i am quoe sure the clintons knew who they could count on …and kennedy was never one of them…look all these people are now stabbing clinton in the back but if she wins the nom they will be there

  200. Tit for tat….there will be some endorsements coming out soon for Hillary. I think some are putting more importance on this than needs to be, but for those that are concerned, not to worry…..expect some soon.

  201. hawk:…plus there is this gorgeous guy I work with from Minnesota, so needless to say, I like y’all up there.

    that’s why you love minnesota. can’t blame you.

  202. Okay I am going to add my two cents: an endorcement, it is what it is, it will cycle through the news and be done with. The main focus is 2/5 and beyond and fundraising. Like i said just my two cents.

  203. Hawk, we are known as a friendly state. I agree, I think we Minnesotans are a kindly lot. Think Praire Home Companion (for real). We aren’t influenced as much by all the trends and issues of the more populated states on the coasts. The state is mostly rural except for the Twin Cities so lots of all American farm towns. Most of Obama’s support will be from Minneapolis/St. Paul. I’m willilng to bet that overall Hillary still has a commanding lead here.

    I will keep watching for any poll numbers that come out. Bill and Hillary came through here in the fall…I hope they do so again.

  204. # clintondem99 Says:
    January 27th, 2008 at 2:32 pm

    imagine44: Ok Jaz you are not a Troll. You are just a pain in the BUTT.

    please don’t quote me, i can fairly speak for myself.

  205. I’m glad that people are using Anglachel’s Journal. I think it’s the best thing I’ve come across in a very long time. I agree with another poster on here that Obama is the establishment candidate! It’s so ironic how his followers don’t see that and believe he is a change from politics as usual. Bill Clinton has ALWAYS been an outsider. People in politics who don’t like him are jealous as hell of his success and intelligence considering that he has “white trash” roots compared to their elitist upbringing and he can STILL kick their ass. Read Anglachel’s analysis of Bill:

    I’m starting to really believe that the Democrats really are dumbasses who don’t want to win. The Clintons have been our greatest asset in over two decades. Why are we listening to people like John Kerry and John Edwards who lost us the last election because they didn’t learn from the Clinton playbook on how to beat the Republicans? Jeez. It frustrates me so much.

  206. Oh, Let’s not froget Los Angeles for the debate on Thursday. HRC wiil do very well, I mean she will kick some A$$

  207. Don’t worry about the Clinton’s. They are really the only bright spot that we democrats have when it comes to fighting the Republican army.

  208. Hello everyone! I just came back from lunch with my family. I have 3 daughters and I was discussing with them Hillary’s historic candidacy and the issue of glass ceiling. We also talked about the Chicago Tribune article by Jessica Reafer on Sexism against Hillary. I told them that is just the way the world is and they have to be tough if they want change it. My youngest asked me to tell Hillary that she is for her and that Hillary should tell media that they are b**t faces. I laughed and told her Hillary couldn’t quite say that but that I agree with her sentiment.

  209. Hawk…you betcha we have accents up here don’t you know…I sometime sound like I came right out of that Fargo movie (LOL)

  210. 🙂

    AmericanGal, at least you have one. If you look at American English Accents in the US, I live in Iowa, which is the only place with literally no accent, including a little bit of Nebraska. We are where news-anchormen and women sound like they come from 🙂

    But it is adorable. And y’all are very nice.

  211. With the SC demographics, fair or not, Obama is not a viable GE candidate anymore. He would be crushed. If the dems want to win, they must side with Hillary.

  212. IMGINE44: I was typing so fast that I did not notice that I typed your userid before. It was an honest mistake.

  213. HEHSupporter, the good thing is no one is listening to John Kerry and no one will listen to Ted Kennedy. Talk about “politics of the past.” I am glad that Obama is now aligning himself with all the trogdolytes. This is not good options for the “new” and “change” candidate. Actually, my unbiased advice to Obama would be to stay away from these guys. I am happy, though, that he is not listening to me. By the by, I was one of the earlier posters who argued that Obama is an establishment candidate. Endorsements by Kerry and Kennedy is a kiss of death for Obama.

    There is an interesting historical dynamic here. When Bill Clinton ran in 1991-1992, he was expected to face Mario Cuomo in the primary. Cuomo was the candidate of the liberal media. Of course, Cuomo never dipped his toe in the water. If you recall, Cuomo is also a gifted speaker and he gave an amazing speech in the 1984 convention. Clinton ran and won and the media never forgave him for it because they didn’t expect him to win. Since then they have been waiting, in their view, for another Cuomo. Obama is their Cuomo. That is why all the love fest.


    One of the better things I’ve read on Bill Clinton, and I’ve read it all.
    It is the political reality that goes along with his complex personality that most miss.
    The Clintons are largely in the middle, which is where most americans are. It’s not conservative or liberal, it’s the 3rd way, it’s most often a common sense approach to policy in an often crazy world.
    And right now, they’re taking fire from all sides.

    As always, it’s the media stupid! When they can’t make a 3-dimensional person into a 2 dimension cartoon, it effects the coverage.
    Then we have the whole VRWC element, a long complex story in itself.

  215. Question: At the convention, if it comes down to delegates, if she is ahead by quite a bit, which I expect, can Edwards give obama his delegates?

  216. No, Hawk, he can recommend that, but he cannot just give them to somebody. If she is ahead in delegates by then, she will almost assuredly be nominated.

  217. Years ago endorsements may have meant a great deal in getting voters to support one canidate over another, that is no longer the case. Today the only real benefit that comes from an endorsement is bragging rights, the endorser’s donor list, mailing lists and ground organization. Hillary’s ground organization for February 5th across the country is so entrenched that any endorsements Obama picks up will have no effect in the Plains and the West. In the East delegate wise the only states that matter NY, NJ, MA and PA, Hillary has the organization and a strong base in all these states. Having the old guard endorsing Obama only takes away another of his lines of attack on Hillary, that she is the Status Quo canidate. You can not get more status quo than Kennedy, Kerry and Leahy. Keep in mind that there are approximately 3000 delegates left tied to primary and caucus results. Look at the remaining 44 states and territories with delegates up for grabs. There are some states that Hillary could very easily win 65 to 70% of the delegates and will win a majority in all the remaining states with the exception of maybe 3.
    So let the Obammies have their day, the press will move on to the State of the Union tomorrow and Tuesday. The Florida election will be the news Tuesday night and Wednesday. On Thursday the media will move back to the Democrats for the last debate before super Tuesday. If past results are any indication, Obama will be his cocky self and come across as the condesending elitist he really is. All leading up to the Super Bowl and finally Super Tuesday.

  218. I want to see a picture of Obama and Kennedy holding their hands high splashed across the front pages of all our national newspapers. That would be the best counterpoint to Obama’s claim that he is the change candidate. That is the best commercial that the Clinton campaign doesn’t even have to pay for going into Super Tuesday.

  219. TPS: what a great historical perspective. and i remember that bill clinton spoke at a democratic convention (?1984) and he droned on and on…look at him now.
    hillary may not be the best and most “inspirational” speaker now, but she has the country’s best interests at heart.

  220. imagine44, it was 1988 when Clinton gave that centrist speech and then he went on Johny Carson the next day making fun of himself and coming out better. Never underestimate the capacity of national liberal media to be seduced by a great speech. Republicans are not as swayed by speeches. They are all business.

  221. kafeen at 2:15: except for Robert Kennedy Jr. He is a strong Hillary supporter, and a great leader like his dad and his uncle John. He is the one the stars still shine on.

  222. I need to step in here and support BMerry’s cautions to us all and Dot48, Alcina and others, this is not directed at the sometimes strong comments you make.

    This situation goes back to Jan 21, when a commenter on this board was trumpeting his/her anti-Obama telephone calls. At the time, mj and others told the person to knock it off immediately. The back and forth lasted 1 hour. That discussion and the thrill that person got doing that underhanded thing cost this site a same-day mention at Digg, which had, w/in days, 6 comments and currently, 33 diggs. There were 2 other blogs about it that day as I remember, and it died down because of the SC contest. I am not surprised it has been p/u by dkos, and it is a good lesson to all of us.

    This site has always been known as a supportive place for Hillary’s friends and supporters, who backed up their comments with links and facts and did not flame the opposition, but contributed to the fact base about them. We also contribute to controversies like the Mathews/NBC pushback. Collectively, we can remember the origins of brawls, like who really started using the racist card, currently a tie between Eugene Robinson the night of NH primary or Oprah and her ill-chosen exhortations on the campaign trail.

    There are brains here, and a huge fund of experience and writing and research skills. Those are the attributes we should focus on and those, plus loyalty, are the things that were driving others bloggers and psuedo media types CRAZY.

    All that said, this is an open site, trolls can be opposed with rationality and facts, Admin can take care of those who have come on with the intent of hurting the site, it is acceptable to reply that another’s comments are off-base, not appreciated or hurtful, as some of us have done (and I was going to do it again today, but won’t for now); and Dot48 and Alcina, and others, I’m sure you have to admit, our rants have been tolerated in the past, even accepted or understood.

    Let’s stop eating our own, and focus on the next individual or community project at hand.

    I’ve somehow lost my spell checker during last cache dump. Hope this is readable.

  223. Mark Halperins take on Feb 5 advantages for Hillary and Obama–posted just for discussion. I’m not saying I agree with everything here (I don’t). Nothing has shown that voters wouldn’t vote for another person named Clinton for President. Wonder why he doesn’t say anything about black voters for Obama:


    1. New York, California, New Jersey, Connecticut, Ohio, and Texas
    2. A sustained national polling lead
    3. closed primaries in which only Democrats vote
    4. perceived experience
    5. white, Hispanic, and low-income voters


    1. “Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton” will never sound like change
    2. the media is (passionately) on his side
    3. Maryland, Virginia, Wisconsin, and caucus states
    4. Internet money
    5. a loyal, ardent, focused staff

  224. We aren’t loyal and ardent? We will win Virginia, but I agree w/ Wisconsin and maybe Maryland. But the caucus states? We will win Minnesota I am sure.

  225. Hillary needs to get more aggressive precinct captains for the remaining caucus states. In Iowa and Nevada Obama supporters were bullies telling non-viable canidate supporters who they were going to vote for.

  226. Hear hear, Emjay!

    Folks, when I call on people to be careful what you say, I am not just being picky or trying to cramp anyone’s style.

    You HAVE to remember that the Obamabots and Kooks and others are constantly looking at this site. Everything you say on here is going to be trumpeted all over the blogs as “proof” of what Hillfans are “really like”, and what we are thinking. Like it or not, that is the truth.

    So in my view, NO, you do not have the luxury of typing whatever the hell pops into your head. This IS NOT a private conversation we are having here.

    And if someone is saying stuff that might reflect badly on Hillary or her campaign, I am going to call it out – loudly. If anyone has a problem with that reality, then too bad. Grow up. The goal here is to get Hilary elected 44. We are not playing personal pattycake here.

  227. Yup. Edwards people in Iowa were telling non-viables that they couldn’t be viable no matter what, even if they got enough the second time. Obama’s people were saying the same. My precinct captain flipped out and got into it with their captains. It was weird. We need help in Minnesota, and in Colorado where they caucus!!!! Get out and help!

  228. Good point, rjk1957.

    Also, Hillary has a big lead in OK, which is a caucus state.

    I think Halperin’s take is mostly accurate, though. Glad he acknowledged No. 2, lol.

  229. I agree with Emjay. Everyone is looking here for hints and snippets. Let us aupport our candidate passionately, yet be prudent in terms of what we say.

  230. Sherm Kader,

    I’ll just give you my opinion, that’s to be wary of focusing on ‘media narratives.’ I just can’t believe the majority of voters are so gullible they can’t see the flagrant media bias. Maybe the pundits are just trying to attract Hillary Haters as viewers because nobody else watches them. It’s not what they say that counts, but what people see. I think Craig Crawford is right, most people see the same thing we see — a pack of circus clowns.

    E.g., a woman wrote into Fox News today that “Oprah turned Obama into the black candidate.” She was pro-Obama before, but now Obama is just for black people.

    On the other hand, I have no idea how George Bush got elected. My only worry about Obama is if Bush can get elected, anybody can get elected.

  231. Ben Smith (hi Ben) has a post about the parallels to BO’s speech and the Malcolm X movie.

    “Carrie Budoff Brown noticed a rather off-message echo in Obama’s stump speech last week, and writes that Obama added to his stump speech in South Carolina several lines that echoed a speech attributed to Malcolm X.

    “They’re trying to bamboozle you,” Obama said for the first time Wednesday in Sumter, S.C., to a predominantly African American crowd while refuting e-mails falsely identifying him as a Muslim. “Don’t let people turn you around because they’re just making stuff up. That’s what they do. They try to bamboozle you, hoodwink you.”

    Obama repeated those lines frequently as he traveled around the state.

    The lines echo the best-known version of the Malcolm X speech, which comes from Spike Lee’s biopic. It’s a stinging address full of blunt racial division, which warns blacks about being “hoodwinked” and “bamboozled” by “the white man.”

    “You’ve been had. You’ve been took. You’ve been hoodwinked. Bamboozled. Led astray. Run amok,” Malcolm says in the speech.

    Robert Gibbs, Obama’s communications director, said he did not know whether Obama was aware that he was echoing Malcolm X.

    Spike Lee drew on the Malcolm X speech again in 2000 with his film “Bamboozled,” a satire about the race and the media.”

  232. was a good year btw( I TURNED 50 IN DEC OF 07)… WHAT DO YOU KNOW OF HER ORGANIZATION IN MAS FOR EXAMPLE..OR any other major states i know bho just opened an office in my city, which i thought was strange.. riverside ca. 60 mi east of la…this is rep country some dems not alot

  233. About endorsements, I want to make a simple point. Which is the most sought after endorsement in a Democratic primary? Bill Clinton’s. Hillary has that endorsement. Nothing else matters. There is no Democratic politician more popular among Democrats all across the country today than Bill Clinton.

  234. If anyone knows any big bloggers or has had success feeding MSM, I implore you to email off the link to anglachel’s blog ( This person’s astute analysis deserves a greater look by a larger audience.

  235. There were some post last night saying NJ is in play, I live here and I do not see it. Hillary has a big lead in the polls, though I am sure the race will tighten some in the next week. Have not seen anything Obama anywhere. He had a few rallys at colleges in N Jersey after NH and think he stop after realizing Independents can only vote if they never voted in a primary beofre or if they have would have had to declare their Democratic party affiliation in December in order to vote in the primary Feb 5th.

  236. I’ve forgotten where I saw this, but maybe it bears repeating. According to a SC exit poll, 58% of South Carolina Dems said the former president’s role was “important” in the campaign …. — the more important a voter considered Bill Clinton’s involvement, the greater the likelihood the person supported Hillary Clinton’s campaign.

    No offense, but judging from style, I get the impression that some people here who don’t see Bill’s statements as valuable — may not be US Southerners like me, honeychild.

    Bill was born in the South, Hillary lived there for 20 years, 12 of them in the Gov mansion of ARkansas and Atty Gen before that. When she got a big unpopular educational thing through (by being nice and wonky), one old Arkansas conservative said “Looks like we done elected the wrong Clinton.”

    Some of what’s going on over here may seem odd to Brits and others … but honestly, the Corporate Media is just making … noise. If they weren’t bashing us about this, it would be something else. At least when they fuss about Bill, they do have to quote at least a few of his own words. (And it reminds us that he’s still in action and will be in action when the Team gets back in the White House! Yeehaw.)

    See also for why some media people hate the Clintons:

  237. Forgot to ask, are Jaz and Jas the same? Anyway, welcome all y’all foreigners J/J and others, sit down on the veranda and I’ll bring y’all some mint julep…. 🙂

  238. Regarding Ben smith’s article- Is BO using “code words” you know the code words the Clinton campagine was accused of using????? I am at a loss for words!!!

  239. TalkingPointsMemo
    FL-Pres (D)
    Jan 27 Rasmussen
    Clinton 44%, Obama 25%, Edwards 19%

    Hillary maintains huge lead in FL.

    No, we are definitely not the same person. 🙂

  240. Just ignore Ben Smith/Politico, he’s an Obama supporter… clearly… Stick to talkingpoints website, they are more equal in coverage.

  241. Im glad Im not the only one who sees that BO is just George Bush in a different suit. Comparing BO of 2008 with W of 2000

    Both are uniters ( as if)
    Both are Washington outsiders
    Both are above politics as usual (ya right)
    Both think they are so good with their judgement and character they dont need to know what they are doing.


  242. If Obama is the nominee (god forbid), the right wing talk radio will talk about hoodwink and bamboozle non-stop.

  243. hawk… This is very true.

    But the media is saying Bill is doing it… if you hear a lie too many times, you believe it… And this is practically what Obama has done to Bill. For Hillary’s sake, Bill should go back to “normal spouse role” instead of “attack dog” because, the more he insists, the more people will recoil from voting.

    I like Bill, but his presence is making everyone uneasy.

  244. Hawk

    you still on?

    over here we’ve gone from 6 degrees below zero to 53 right now in 3 days.
    It’ making me crazy. What’s it like over there?

  245. I was shocked by the results in SC primary. Something needs to be done to help her. The pure hatred that I see towards her and anything that has a name “Clinton” is just mind buggering. Also I don’t get all these democrats that endorse Obama – don’t they understand that Obama will NEVER win general elections.

  246. Jaz, Please read my previous posts. Bill did what he did in SC on purpose, to detract from an inevitable big win by Obama. There’s no empirical evidence at all that he hurt her in SC. Zilch. He knew the media would jump an anything he said, as they have before, and turn him into an issue. The Clintons took the media hatred of them and used it to their advantage. Absolutely brilliant.

    The “Is Bill hurting Hillary” narrative just clouds Obama’s SC triumph.

  247. OK, back from the nap thing, my son is supposed to take a nap, not me also, lol. Seriously, I did have a small dream, that I was one of those gals who got a chance to get a hug from HRC after leaving SC (see video above). The difference was I’m a guy, I told HRC she will be 44, when BM was interviewing me after I had a big pink Hillary is 44 button on!

  248. AmericanGal: you have caught Mark Halperin in the middle of a lie. In a side by side comparison why would he identify the ethnic supporters for Hillary–whites, Hispanics, women and then fail to aknowedge the undeniable fact that AA support Obama to the tune of 80%. Material omissions like this are the same thing as a lie.

    I think these ethical lapses deserve some tangible form of recognition. Possibly a new Pulitzer Prize category for the biggest media liar of the year with two subcategories. One for those who invent stories out of thin error. Another for those who distort the record so that up is down, night is day, to support a false narrative conclusions. Both do a grave disservice to the country but WTF.

    The inscription would be adorned with the famous words of the Washington State Supreme Court which held that it is okay to lie in politics. This would give it some class. And what would we call it . . . . how about the Mike Banacle award–“The Barnicle” for short? The list of nominees would be long and distinguished. Donald Rumsfeld could be the Master of Ceremonies to give it further credibility. MSNBC could host the event to break up the tedium of Hardball, Lock-up and To Catch A Predator.

    You think I am kidding don’t you? I assure you I am not. Advocacy journalism has erased the line between truth and entertainment. With so much journalistic energy being poured into distorting, maligning and twisting the truth, there should be a way to recognize those who do it really well. They deserve the award and all the notoriety that goes with it.

  249. Same here emjay. I am confused. I want to go out, but I am not sure if I will regret it and it is really cold and I just can’t tell. I hope it satys warmer like this.

  250. I am gonna go downtown in a lil’ while. Take a walk. I need to get out. I HATE the winter. I hate wearing layers. I hate it.

  251. * Great video. Hardly a concession speech,though. lol Hillary’s looking to the future. Can’t wait for Tuesday! 🙂

    Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) Concession Speech & Campaign Event (1 hr. 8 min.)
    Nashville, TN: Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) congratulates Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) for winning the South Carolina Democratic Primary. She was at Tenness State University, in Nashville, holding a Town Hall Meeting. Saturday

  252. Just returned and read the comments about my misogyny stuff. I’ve given up on that, but I thank everyone who tried to set me straight. It is appreciated. I still think about that, but I’m not pushing it. I wouldn’t want us to do something that would backfire.

    In the past I would have said something like “Please don’t say it can’t be done. Just tell me what we have to do to make it work correctly.”

    I liked what the women did to Chris Mathews. I was hoping something could be worked out by those who know how to handle the sensitivities involved. I would just like to turn the tables on BHO.

    I still believe Hillary has a plan to win, beginning Tuesday and going through Feb. 5th. After that you make adjustments as needed. I just don’t want to take any chances. I really want her to win.

  253. There is something really big going on behind the scenes. First, the DNC sets up a primary system that couldn’t be more disfavorable for Hillary Clinton, remember John Edwards was supposed to pull out a win in IA because of his superior ground organization (at the time when the primaries were being set up, that was still true). Then they chose Nevada and SC, to be representative of the growing Hispanic voice and to be the voice of AAs. Michigan and Florida objected and were stripped of their delegates in response.

    So now we see that the deck was stacked, but it was clearly stacked in a way that was set up to kill any momentum for Hillary going into primaries in her strengths on the coasts. Oh, well, no big deal, Hillary adjusted and played by the rules, and it looks like her support remains strong enough to overcome the stacked odds.

    But here’s the strange part, given that a Clinton nomination is still very likely, and that all their tactics didn’t work to derail her, the big guns from Massachusettes (John Kerry, Ted Kennedy) have chosen to hitch their wagon to Barack Obama…why? It’s clear that there is a fracture in the party but why are these people spending their political capital to back someone before he has proven that he can win?

    I know that they’re saying it’s because of the “slash and burn” politics employed by the Clintons, but anyone who is paying attention knows that this is a trumped up charge. They can’t possibly think that voters are paying attention to what the talking heads are saying, these are not stupid people…so what is it that’s going on behind the scenes? I hope it’s something that the Clintons can overcome.

    I think there’s evidence in what’s going on with the FISA fight…McCaskill voted with Republicans to kill the good FISA bill. Reid’s actions are strange, he forced a Democratic Presidential Candidate to actually fillibuster the bill, something that he’s never forced Republicans to do, they’ve always just been able to threathen fillibuster. I’m just glad I trust Hillary’s judgement and can support her in the dark, because all the behind the scenes things that we’re getting hints of is not pretty.

    I think that the power brokers in the DNC have underestimated the fierce loyalty that the Clintons inspire with in the voting American populace. Considering how bad things have gotten I actually take comfort from that fact that Hillary is being attacked from the Left AND the Right. Seeing how effective the Republicans have been while in the minority the past couple of years, I’m left with a very bad opinion of everything we had to accept from them while they in the majority and our Dem congress people were telling us that they couldn’t do anything because they didn’t have the votes. Clearly, they (the Dem leaders who are now hitching their wagons to the Obama train) just didn’t have the will to stop the madness of the Bush Administration.

  254. Sherm, I actually agree with you, just not sure how it can be brought up given our tolerance and acceptance of sexism in the american society. I think though, one thing that got support ginned up for Hill in NH, NV and MI was losing in Iowa, so this may actually help her. Dem’s don’t want a coronation. I tend to think she operates better as the underdog.

  255. This what Obam’s home town paper Sun-Times thinks of Obama’s SC win:NOT very flattering!:

    But behind Obama’s whopping victory lies eye-opening racial statistics: Exit polls show that while Obama won four out of five African-American votes, he won only one out of four white votes.

    Obama said his oversize victory puts “the wind at our backs” heading into “Super Tuesday” Feb. 5 in which 22 states, including Illinois, choose their presidential delegates.

    Outside Illinois, polls show Clinton leads Obama in most of the biggest states. Obama’s campaign hopes Saturday night’s win helps move those numbers, but the racial asterisk on Saturday’s win calls into question whether Obama can win states in which African Americans don’t make up half the electorate — as he did in lily-white Iowa.
    Racial asterisk………Ouch!

  256. Sherm Kader Says: If anyone, from Obama through the media find any fault with Hillary, let’s accuse them of sexism or mysogony or anti-feminism or whatever is the most effective term.

    Heh. Or what about ‘ageism’? Obama really has been guilty of that, attacking the whole Boomer generation.

    However I posted here about phoning in SC and asked if I could mention that Obama is young enough to try two or three times more, but Hillary isn’t — ie “now or never.” I think at least two people here said not to mention her age or Bill’s heart. Does that apply to Florida and/or nationally also? (And why? EMail me if you’d rather.)

    1950democrat -at-

  257. NO, Jaz Bill is not making “everyone” uneasy. He is making the media and the Obamadroids uneasy, and he is evidently making YOU uneasy. The majority of the Democratic Party is just fine and dandy with Bill, thank you.

    I am beginning to wonder why you are constantly pushing the “Bill is hurting Hillary” meme. You seem to bring it up an awful lot.

  258. KyMkt

    Thanx for the anglachelg,blogspot recommendation.

    I know no one but would suggest that anyone who loves campaign management and planning read the whole thing, top to bottom.

    Also an excellent tonic for anyone who still has tummy pains from last night.

    This is why some of us here keep saying things like trust the HRC campaign staff and planners. We are not electing a student council president. They KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

  259. Remember this, folks:

    State Package for Hillary Clinton
    By Maya Angelou

    You may write me down in history

    With your bitter, twisted lies,

    You may tread me in the very dirt

    But still, like dust, I’ll rise.

    This is not the first time you have seen Hillary Clinton seemingly at her wits’ end, but she has always risen, always risen, don’t forget she has always risen, much to the dismay of her adversaries and the delight of her friends.

    Hillary Clinton will not give up on you and all she asks of you is that you do not give up on her.

    There is a world of difference between being a woman and being an old female. If you’re born a girl, grow up, and live long enough, you can become an old female. But to become a woman is a serious matter. A woman takes responsibility for the time she takes up and the space she occupies. Hillary Clinton is a woman. She has been there and done that and has still risen. She is in this race for the long haul. She intends to make a difference in our country. Hillary Clinton intends to help our country to be what it can become.

    She declares she wants to see more smiles in the family, more courtesies between men and women, more honesty in the marketplace. She is the prayer of every woman and man who longs for fair play, healthy families, good schools, and a balanced economy.

    She means to rise.

    Don’t give up on Hillary. In fact, if you help her to rise, you will rise with her and help her make this country the wonderful, wonderful place where every man and every woman can live freely without sanctimonious piety and without crippling fear

    Rise, Hillary.


  260. I’ve been reading with interest and a little intimidated to post, but I am bolstered by the commitment of all of you stalwart Hillfans in the wake of SC and would like to weigh in on the first of two topics that are near and dear. I apologize in advance if you’ve heard all of this.

    Absolutely right. This morning, the Trib endorsed McCain and Obama; they NEVER endorse the Dem in the GE. The ONLY Dem candidate to be mentioned (uh, I mean lambasted) during the Repub debate was HRC. The GOP are salivating about a run against BO – they’ve got Rezko, wrong buttons, present votes, AWOL from Senate committee, absentee record (I heard 20% compared to an average of 4%?) and probably more we haven’t heard yet. Far from being the independent reporters of past eras, Big Media ARE the corporate interests that benefit from more of the Bush-like policies. I’m sure you’ve all covered that thoroughly.

    And, TPS, you are right: BO absolutely is the establishment candidate, a creation of the Chicago Machine and Illinois’ notably corrupt 1-party *combine.* The reason BO won Iowa was that every WHITE Cook County Dem operative was dispatched to Iowa and walked door-to-door for 2 months before the primary – now they’re driving 6 hours to MO. No talking heads have noted that among the reasons for his *spectacular* IA win. I personally know several Dem *regulars* who spend each weekend out of town for the BO campaign. To believe that BO is any *new* kind of politician means simply that one is uniformed. BO has used his good name this cycle to endorse all manner of inept or corrupt political hacks over hard-working and reform-minded Dems– many of who helped him get elected over the years and with whom he claimed *friendship.* And, many around here believe that the Rezko trial, which starts Feb 25, may be the main reason the Dems moved our primary up to Feb 5. BO repudiated the Independent Voters of Illinois (IVI-IPO) disavowing nearly ten years of his exhaustive questionnaires outlining his now-too-liberal viewpoints and ten years of their support and endorsements. Their endorsement was very valuable to him as an *independent* D running for a Hyde Park Leg. seat – the independents run things in the 4th and 5th wards – and now he blames the innacurate answers on staff mistakes? IVI-IPO made no endorsement in the Prez primary.

    Thanks for your comments, TPS – I share your views – and everyone here. Plse. keep the intelligent analysis and discussion going – I hope it is helpful to HRC from time to time.

    Happy Sunday! (Go Hill!)

    PS – Admin, how do I change my login? I want to be *Hillinois*!!!

  261. “NO, Jaz Bill is not making “everyone” uneasy. He is making the media and the Obamadroids uneasy, and he is evidently making YOU uneasy. The majority of the Democratic Party is just fine and dandy with Bill, thank you.

    I am beginning to wonder why you are constantly pushing the “Bill is hurting Hillary” meme. You seem to bring it up an awful lot.”

    Because, he’s not running for President, so his opinions should not be in the media more than Hillary, as happened these last few weeks. I hardly think him attacking the media will help the campaign broaden it’s appeal.

  262. She was really good on Face the Nation.

    I especially liked her answer to the question about BO’s attack on her in his speech last night — that she (and Bill) are too partisan because they criticized his silly statement about the Republicans being the “party of ideas” for the past 10-15 years.

    She said criticism on issues and ideas is part of politics and she’s never heard of a contest where it wasn’t allowed.

    Go, Hillary.

  263. It’s so nice to hear that Carrie Budoff Brown at Politico heard BHO say Bamboozle, etc., a la Malcolm X. Now we know where those brilliant researchers get their material .. from we bloggers.

    Seymour Glass wrote a MyDD diary on this in the wee hours of yesterday morning: “‘You’ve Been Bamboozled!’ Obama, Spike Lee, Malcolm X , Bill Clinton and the Press Corps”

  264. bill has a 90% rating with dems so i want bill out there more. only clinton haters and obamabots and maybe one person here is pushing the anti-bill theme here. i want him out in front even more. SOUTH CAROLINA IS 50% OF THE DEMS AND OBAMA WON 80% OF THEM! i sound like a broken record but anybody cannot blame bill for sc. period.

  265. PS – the part that I was referring to that didn’t transfer for some reason was the post about the 3-step plan that to install another Repug as next POTUS.

  266. Topic two: Respected minority organizations have sponsored at least three debates that I know of. Are any debates planned to address issues important to WOMEN voters? Where is NOW or Political Women’s Caucus?

  267. i asked that before imformed in illinios but appearently not. big media won’t give that forum becuase they know hillary will dominate.

  268. terrondt – He’s popular. No doubt. No one that doubts that.

    But the problem is people are voting for the “future” not “bill is a nice guy”.
    In the same way, how do you think the republicans would fair if Reagan was in the news consistently in the next campaign…or Bush?
    Do you see Jesse Jackson dominating the media while “campaigning” for Obama?

    This is supposed to be about Hillary’s presidency, about what SHE wants for the country. Not what Bill thinks of the media, or Obama…

    He’s a campaign asset, as he draws the crowds, it’s a great benefit, but he should remember it’s not about him, but about Hillary’s vision.

  269. I just read anglachelg. The post is spot on about the Clinton strategy and the stacked decks against them the way the Dean DNC set up this primary schedule. I think they are sitting pretty at this point and all this endorsements, media bias is all day-to-day noise. We have to keep our eye on the goal and keep moving forward and helping the campain anyway we can. I have already contributed money to the campaign I will be voting for Hillary tomorrow in Illinois in early voting. I encourage everyone to check anglacheg.

  270. Jaz said: “Because, he’s not running for President, so his opinions should not be in the media more than Hillary, as happened these last few weeks. I hardly think him attacking the media will help the campaign broaden it’s appeal.”

    With all due respect, Jaz, I think you hold this position because you just don’t understand the Clinton phenomenon. On some level, you buy the media narrative. I hope this helps you to see this from a different perspective: The media is hell bent on stopping the Second Clinton administration. Given this, you should consider that the opposite of ANYTHING they parrot is closer to the truth.

    The American public is in an unique place right now. We are in the process of rejecting the propoganda machine that was built during the First Clinton administration. The Fourth Estate is dead. In their hubris, they have awakened a sleeping tiger and we have a champion in Hillary. There are some of us out here that knew in 1992 that a vote for Bill was a vote for Hillary. We are now getting a chance to cast our vote directly for her, Bill is an effective spokesperson, a lightning rod (if you will) for getting and holding the attention of the American electoriate, Hillary is the person with the ideas and the know-how to clean up the mess that we find ourselves in. The Presidency of Hillary Clinton will totally eclipse that of her husband, and I think that is the reason that she is being attacked from both the establishment on the Left as well as on the Right.

  271. AP has a story saying Hillary to campaign in Florida. Close but no Kewpie doll on that one. Hillary has announced she go to Florida to assure them their voices will be heard. That part isn’t new. Her announcement is sure to be published in Florida. That, along with her call for their delegates to be seated at the convention, tells the Florida voters (before the vote) she hasn’t forgotten them. Apparently she will go there on Tuesday after the polls close to thank voters. Since tht does not appear to violate her pledge, I think it’s a wise way to handle that situation without actually campaigning there. Our lady is smart.

  272. Jaz, you know nothing. And that’s about as kindly as I can put it. Bill and Hillary know EXACTY how they are using Bill, and how to do so.

  273. And last, if BO is supposed to be THE ONE that brings everyone together, why would he stand for all this talk from his supporters about staying home or voting repub if Hillary is the candidate and similar nonsense? It calls him out – yet again – as a hypocrite. Talk about winning at all costs!

    I was at a luncheon with an IL congresswoman who supports BO (yes I was very disappointed and told her so) where groups of women were ranting about *losing all those young voters if BO isn’t the nominee* and similar hateful talk about defection, etc. I interjected that IF BO has engaged so many young people, and actually is sincere about being *the one* who can bring (at least some) people together, he accordingly has a great responsibility to stop the hateful talk.

    Stunned silence.

  274. I posted about that a few minutes ago, it hasn’t appeared (not sure this one will either)

    The AP headline was “Clinton to campaign in Florida”

    which is misleading at best. She’s going after voting closes Tuesday and to a few fundraisers (as I understand it).

    That is not campaigning.

  275. i heard from some obamabot on the talking heads clinton should not campaign hard for is wife becuase he is a former president. wtf law that says that?!!! jaz, mark my words come feb 5th and to all big media, obamabots and you will be in for a rude awakening. the full power of bill and his wife will not be apperent until then. then the media will go with the goddamn winner bangwagon jumpers that they are and back hillary and call for obama’s hide to quit.

  276. Jaz, let me give you a different take on Bill Clinton. Hillary got about 20% of the AA vote in SC. That is what helped her place second in SC ahead of Edwards. Given this is Edwards’ home state and that he spent more money on TV than both Hillary and Obama combined, I am afraid if Bill hadn’t campaigned in SC, there was a clear danger that Hillary could have come third. The press would have been even more brutal on her. Bill Clinton’s presence in SC helped her win a bit more AA vote, helped pin Obama down there for a whole week, and helped her raise a tone on money. He also helped deflect media criticism directed at Hillary. In fact, he was a shield for her. He deserves enormous praise from us. No matter what tactics the Clinton campaign might have followed, SC was a goner. Jesse jackson won this place in 1984 and 1988 comfortably. Any decent AA candidate should win SC. Obama won the same percentage of AA vote in SC that he won in Iowa, NH, and Nevada. It is just that the AA vote constituted 55% of the vote in SC. He won even less of the white vote here than in Iowa, NH, and Nevada. The demographics do not favor him from this point on. Please read anglacheg’s blog on this issue. It is one of the most crystal clear treatment of campaign strategy.

    The media needs an explanation for everything. Their current explanation is that Bill Clinton caused a backlash in SC. This is like how CNBC provides an after the fact explanation for each day’s stock market moves. There is no cause and effect here. The only fundamental explanation for Obama’s SC win is that the demographics favored him. This is not to diminish the appropriate pride AA voters have in his candidacy. Obama did not outperform in the AA vote. He performed as expected and this has nothing to do with Bill Clinton.

  277. Seems like I read someplace the Chicago Tribune endorsed Obama? If so then the following is apt:

    Question: Did any newspaper in 1948 have the headline ‘Dewey Wins’?

    The headline was, “Dewey Defeats Truman!”
    The Chicago Daily Tribune was the paper in question …

    Note: like Yogi Berra said: its deja vu all over again.

  278. Jaz, Did you read what I wrote above? I explained what Bill was doing in SC. You don’t think the Clintons knew the media would trash him and say he was overshadowing her? It was intentional. You act as if he doesn’t know how his actions will be perceived. Of course he does. He played the media like a violin, and they’re too dumb to see that.

  279. More about that trip to Florida: She will be there when the vote is being counted where she will give a victory speech. This is expected to get major media coverage. She will also use that to show she has momemtum. It keeps getting better.

    She will win!!!

  280. re Women’s forum, Thanks Terrondt – that is dissapointing. How come the advantage of a minority forum wasn’t also an issue?

  281. If you want to complain about Bill, who is a genius of politics, then you also need to show the same disaffection for Michelle and Elizabeth – who are doing the same thing for their own spouses (albeit with less impact).

    Bill is a wonderful asset. Especially when their are 22 states to visit and campaign in over the next FEW days.

  282. Obama supporters will look for any reason to justify why they aren’t voting for Hillary including knocking down Bill without even mentioning all the race-baiting that his people have used in this primary. I think Bill should tone it down a bit only because the media have set him out as a target for their ongoing debate about race in this election. They love this shit. If it wasn’t for the drama they’ve helped create then we’d actually have to focus on the issues and that would only help HRC and you know the media doesn’t want to do that!

    Nonetheless, Bill is still a huge asset in this primary for HRC. He needs to stay away from anything race related because we’ve learned that this is the easiest issue for the Obama people to use against him. They love using the race card because it makes Obama look like the victim and Bill and HRC the bad white racist bullies.

    Other than that, Bill should just talk about the issues without even using Obama’s name and just refer to them as the “other candidate”. It sucks but that’s how Obama is going to play this election down to the wire. He has nothing else going for him. He can’t compete with HRC on the real substantive stuff so he will only respond in a way that will continue to make Bill look like a racist. His base loves this shit. Remember, his base mainly consists of: youth voters who have fallen for the hype, blacks, and independents who have always hated Bill and Hillary. Many of these people could care less about the issues which is why they are so bought into the notions of “hope” and “change” rather than listen to someone give a long-winded but informative speech on how they will get us out of the war, work on the educational system, and specifics about their universal health care plan.

    Hillary has almost always stayed on target. If you watched her speech and Q&A last night you would realize that she does these sort of Q&As with voters more often than Obama which is part of the reason why she won NH and Nevada. When she talks about the issues people get it and they know that this woman knows what she’s talking about. Bill has been doing just fine going on the road and talking to voters and addressing criticism. It’s the media’s fault that they’d rather be covering what he says at every campaign stop about Obama rather than focusing on HRC and the issues.

  283. Informed, Great comeback there, lol. And Obama has promised to support the Dem nominee. Isn’t that what “uniters” do?

  284. yeah, remeber elizebeth edwards when she was attacking hillary on not being a happy person or not the best for woman’s issues? or michelle obama claiming if u can’t run your house you can’t run the white house? how about the obamabots calling her every name in the book on the many anti-hillary nutkook blogs? did you complain about that jaz? the relentless media attacks on hillary long before sc, do you remember those attacks jaz. most of us here damn sure remember those.

  285. Jaz, I understand your concerns. When you watch these cable shows and you hear them beating up on Bill Clinton, subsonsciously you start thinking it would be better if Bill wasn’t up front. The fact is that he is not up front. He has made as many positive statements about Obama including saying that he will work hard for his win if he were to be the nominee. That wasn’t covered by the media at all. The media creates a theme and covers what it wants to cover. My point is your concerns are well taken but don’t take the media themes too seriously. The Clinton campaign is doing what it thinks is the best, Bill and Hillary Clinton are smart political operatives and we have to give them the space to put their strategy in place.

  286. Agree with Terrondt and my neighbor TPS– President Bill is a huge asset for the campaign – someone likened it to a tactical nuke. And the only analyst who has been at all intellectually honest about this is Pat Buchanan! Who’d of thunk?

  287. I doubt Obama will do much to “unite” the Democratic party unless he is VP and I have a feeling that he won’t even want to settle for that. He has already succeeded in making his supporters believe that HRC and Bill are the enemy. So many of his supporters do not plan on voting for HRC under any circumstances and Obama has said nothing about supporting the Democratic nomination regardless of who wins. Instead he says he KNOWS that we’ll vote for him but his supporters won’t vote for HRC. WTF? Why even have that kind of attitude. Learn some tact Obama. At least lie since that’s what his platform is all about, right? He sounds like a divider more than anything else.

  288. Paula, exactly. When was the last time we heard a candidate for Prez with a disengaged management style say “I’m a uniter, not a divider!” I’m ready for some REAL change!

  289. TPS.. spoke like a pro.. I agree with CNBC theory of stock market and media narrative of campaign. I have been self investing for almost 5 years now and have had an average return of 120% an year, beating market consistently. Yet, I see CNBC giving lamest reasons for markets ups and downs. Theory is simple. Market goes down when it goes too high and vice versa. Its more like blackjack, where you decide to stay when dealer has a lesser card than 6 to display. The media are fools. Once again, last night we analyzed the figures just in case anybody missed the analysis. I have put it up in a diary formate here for people to see.

    The clinton campaign is playing by the rules, media and Obama campaign is gaming the democratic party and party elders like teddy kennedy, to prove their liberal credentials is endorsing Obama. look at it this way, if Teddy would have endorsed Hillary, he would be regarded as supporting establishment candidate. If he supports Obama he is now viewed as most progressive candidate who has looked beyond his race and supported Obama because he “hopes” for better country. I call it BS.

  290. This statement from Kathleen Kennedy Townsend was just released by the Clinton campaign: I sure wouldn’t like to be at the dinner Thanksgiving table of the Kennedy family.

    “I respect Caroline and Teddy’s decision but I have made a different choice. While I admire Senator Obama greatly, I have known Hillary Clinton for over 25 years and have seen first hand how she gets results. As a woman, leader, and person of deep convictions, I believe Hillary Clinton would make the best possible choice for president. She shares so many of the concerns of my father. Hillary has spent a lifetime speaking out on behalf of the powerless and working to alleviate poverty, in our country and around the world. I have seen her work up close and know she will be a great President. At this moment when so much is at stake at home and overseas, I urge our fellow Americans to support Hillary Clinton. That is why my brother Bobby, my sister Kerry, and I are supporting Hillary Clinton.”

  291. gladiatorstail, those are impressive returns!

    The one good thing about Kennedy and Kerry endorsing Obama is that slowly, slowly he is becoming the establishment candidate. The media lovefest for him is a doubledged sword. All this makes clear that Hillary is the outsider and has always been one.

    I want the Obama campaign to put both Ted Kennedy and John Kerry up front in their campaign. Hillary taking on a bunch of male establishment figures. I like the optics.

  292. Caroline, this great! On the day Teddy is endorsing Obama, it would be nice to have a photo of Hillary, Kathleen, Bobby, and Kerry together. Hillary is THE CHOICE OF A NEW GENERATION OF KENNEDYs!

  293. silver lining about the kennedy endorsement. he endorsed gore in 2000 and kerry in 2004. OH NO THEY BOTH LOST.

  294. HEHS, Obama did say, without hesitation, that he would support the nominee when he was asked the question months ago. That was at the same time Edwards refused to say he would.

  295. The Kennedy family is definitely split over who to support (family get togethers would be a little awkward right now 🙂 ). I wonder if those that backed Dodd will come out for someone else?

  296. Jaz

    Take a break and read the astute diary at anglachelg journal. Very edifying.

    Same recommendation to NYCMax.

    And same recommendation to anyone else who has concerns about the management or goals of the campaign, including Bill’s responsibilities.

    to be con’t with another of my kudos re: Howard Dean, who is NOT the Clintons’ enemy.

    Also think about this…what would most contribute to a crumbling of, and complete unmasking of the current snake pit we call MSM? How about a nationwide, all-inclusive “Dewey Wins” repeat.

  297. Emjay, they already had that moment in NH. Of course they never learn. The snakes are out again. But the eagle will soar.

  298. on other blogs i get the same sad bs. if obama don’t get it they will not vote for hillary. selfish. me, i will stick dem becuase i don’t like it when obamabots play that game. i do not fault anybody here if they do not vote obama in the fall. thank goodness it will not happen.

  299. In 2002 Kathleen ran for governor of Maryland against Bob Ehrlich. The Washington Post destroyed her by printing leaked stories about some supposed scandal that turned out to be nothing — sound familiar?

  300. wbboei, it’s when the media is intentionally misleading that I get hot.
    Which explains the gargantuan knot in my stomach for these past 15 years.

    So the Kennedy clan split their endorsements? What a shrewd bunch.
    The high profile ones (Ted, Caroline) for whom they really want, a bone to Hillary.

    That’s not right, however it plays. Jackie really liked Bill & Hillary, and the Clintons were good to them in return.

  301. i remembered that race in 2002 plural. i wish townsend would have pulled that out. she was not a good candidate though.

  302. If Hillary wins, Obama will endorse her. To not do so would end his viability as a future presidential candidate. Saying his people won’t support Hillary is a threat to scare voters; don’t let it get to you.

  303. I could be wrong but I think the ted Kennedy’s endorsement may be like the Gore’s endorsement of Dean four years ago. The campaign collapsed after the endorsement rally.

  304. HighlyEducatedHillarySupporter.. if he wants to have any aspirations of presidency, he HAS to abide by the rules if he loses. which include supporting eventual nominee. In addition, I think Hillary should not add him to VP ticket if she wins. Obama and his supporters should NOT hold party to hostage. I might or might not not vote for Obama because of difference in philosophy, especially fiscal and his ineptitude to manage government, but I wont hold party hostage saying I wont support Obama if Hillary is not given VP position. plain stupid..

  305. the clintons really gave the kennedys much respect and pomp while they were in the whitehouse. i don’t understand why they dissed the clintons.

  306. No, she wasn’t a good candidate. But it was a close election, and those WaPo stories were devastating.

    Once the election was over, of course, the investigation just disappeared. Nothing ever came of it.

  307. The unfulfilled promise of Obama’s response to the Clintons.
    By John Dickerson
    Posted Friday, Jan. 25, 2008, at 4:54 PM ET

    Gen. Obama is stuck in his tent. His spats with the Clintons are happening too fast to score, but it feels like the Dynastic Duo is getting the better of the combat. Obama is fighting back, but even when he’s winning, he’s fighting back on Clinton turf—squabbling about who hit whom first and whether quotes are being taken out of context. Obama is also letting the Clintons pick the turf—the sound bite and the debate stage. Somehow, he’s keeping his best weapon sheathed. Obama’s strength, and the entire message and promise of his campaign, has been his ability to shift the paradigm when confronted with the old style of politics to get voters to see things in a new way and rally them behind that. So, why has he been unwilling or unable to do this in his own defense?

    The battle between the Clintons and He Who Dares Challenge Them is about more than who will get the power that comes with the presidency. The battle is about how you shape ideas in the public square. Whether Obama can fight back matters to Obama fans, but it also should matter to any Democrat who wants his nominee to win in what will be a tough fight with whoever is the Republican pick. (If Obama can’t win a fight among friends, how’s he going to win a fight with the enemy?) It should also matter to anyone at all, really, because candidates who campaign on vaguely magical new ways of practicing politics should have to actually show that magic in action.

    The current fight among the Democrats is aggressive and frantic. (The two campaigns have held so many conference calls with reporters attacking each other that they should just start holding joint calls to give us time to sleep.) But the conflict is not that bad by historical standards. Nor has either side reached for the sharpest knives. The Obama camp has not mentioned Monica Lewinsky, and Chelsea Clinton hasn’t joined the family feud (though her mute, smiling presence certainly leavens her father’s outbursts, which makes her part of the team).

    In this battle so far, the Clintons are fulfilling their promise to voters—we’ll fight hard, long, and sometimes throw an elbow or two to get what we want. We’ll do that against Republicans in the fall, and we’ll do that when trying to pass universal health care once we’re (she’s) in office. This may turn off some people, but there’s no denying that their behavior matches their message.

    Obama’s response to the Clintons has been to punch and counterpunch. He’s not superb at it. He seems to struggle with his irritation at having to engage in this at all and then sometimes seems afflicted with a wicked case of staircase wit, issuing comebacks a little late—after he’s thought of a good one—even as the Clintons have moved on to calling for an elevated debate. There is still every possibility that the Clintons may fall of their own overreaching, but that’s a risky strategy for Obama.

    Obama could change the tone by talking about policy ideas, but his biggest, boldest idea is that he’s going to change the tone of the debate. So, whatever alchemy he was going to employ when he became president to solve Washington’s most intractable problems, he should probably employ now to help himself. I’m not setting the bar too high for him. This is the bar he has set for himself.

    So, how does Obama do this? As the paradigm-shifter, only he knows. But the answer doesn’t lie in a sharp comment to a reporter or some perfect rejoinder at the next debate, on Jan. 31. He needs a media moment to wrap his response to all of the Clinton claims about him (particularly the fair and reasonable ones) into his bigger campaign themes.

    Some of the counter-Clinton language is already in his stump speech, in which he casts the couple and their political talents as models of the past. But part of Obama’s talent is that he knows he has to give the media a moment to crystallize this. A narrative-bending moment, an on-every-commentator’s-lips moment. This will become even more important after South Carolina, when national coverage will shape the message for the 22 states that will vote on Super Tuesday.

    Obama has found his moments before—at the 2004 Democratic convention, at the Jefferson Jackson dinner in November, after his Iowa caucus win, and last Sunday when he spoke at the church where Martin Luther King Jr. preached. He was winning over audiences in Iowa weeks before the Jefferson Jackson dinner, but it wasn’t until that night, when he showed his stuff in front of a room full of journalists, that he won big recognition. He broke through when the media proclaimed that he’d broken through. Perhaps this will be the role of his South Carolina victory speech if he wins in that state on Saturday, as the polls suggest he will. But that’s not likely to be enough for him, because that night will be cluttered by obsessive chatter about the role race played in the outcome.

    Pulling out the big moment won’t solve Obama’s main electoral challenge—making his message work for regular working folks who wonder how he’s going to improve their daily lives. But busting out of the Clinton boxing ring would show that when it counts, he can harness the new talents for which he is always being praised. And for which he praises himself.

    I say you dont F*ck with the Clintons. They are the best thing that has happened to our party in fighting the republicans since FDR and people need to realize, obama has no idea what he is up against in november against the republicans.

  308. Concludes Marc Armbinder (after first lauding Obama’s SC win):

    The margin of victory was so big that the press was easily able to dismiss the Clinton campaign’s spin tonight. But here are legitimate points they might make:
    (a). About 20 percent of black voters did choose Hillary Clinton.
    (b) In no major state going forward does Barack Obama have the same demographic advantages as he had in South Carolina. (In Georgia, 30% of the population is black; in Alabama, the figure is 25%. In California, which allocates 8 times as many delegates as South Carolina does, is about 7% black. (Arkansas and New York have large black populations, but…)
    (c) South Carolina and Iowa were the two retail states where Obama’s campaign worked the hardest and spent the most, and Obama was able to build movements in those states. But it took months. He can’t replicate these organizations in 22 states in 9 days.
    (d) Hillary Clinton is running strong in states like Tennessee, Missouri and Arkansas — all interior states — and is stronger in the states with the most delegates.
    (e) Including Florida and Michigan, more Democrats have voted for HRC than any other candidate by far.

  309. I got my dad and brother in Arizona the date for their primary, super tuesday, and they are going to go out and vote for Hillary 🙂

  310. I laughed my ass off seeing this comment on mydd.

    Don’t disenfranchise the people of Florida (none / 0)

    Don’t think of disenfranchising our Florida Brothers and Sisters. They are fellow citizens and have a right to have their votes counted. Shame on the DNC for even suggesting it.

    It was so very painful to watch what happened in 2000. It wasn’t the people who punched the chads that the machines were faulty, just as it isn’t the fault of the ordinary voter when the primary is.

    The Democrats stand to lose the moral high ground in 2008, if they are too hardhanded with ordinary voters.

    And Florida is a battleground state. Since when are the elections based on South Carolina.

  311. How much does the endorsement of Mccaskill really matter? What is her present popularity in Mo? I am trying to find numbers i can not find them.

  312. I suspect the people of Missouri will make the right decision despite what their new, freshman senator thinks.

  313. USAT/Gallup Polls: McCain, Clinton lead in California, New York
    Two new USA TODAY/Gallup Polls today show John McCain and Hillary Clinton leading the Republican and Democratic fields in New York and California. The polls were conducted Wednesday through Saturday; margin of errror is plus or minus 4 percentage points in each state, for each party.

    California Republican results (755 registered voters):
    Arizona Sen. John McCain 35%
    Former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney 27%
    Former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee 12%
    Former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani 11%
    Texas Rep. Ron Paul 5%
    Former diplomat Alan Keyes 1%

    California Democratic results (779 registered voters):
    New York Sen. Hillary Clinton 47%
    Illinois Sen. Barack Obama 35%
    former North Carolina senator John Edwards 10%

    New York Republican results (750 registered voters):
    McCain 42%
    Giuliani 24%
    Romney 14%
    Huckabee 8%
    Paul 5%
    Keyes 1%

    New York Democratic results (767 registered voters):
    Clinton 56%
    Obama 28%
    Edwards 10%

    Cautionary note: These polls are snapshots and both parties’ nomination contests are volatile. Interviews in the Democratic race were conducted before Obama’s big win last night in the South Carolina primary. The GOP race could shift after the Florida primary on Tuesday.

  314. She had a very tough senatorial election in 2006. Her endorsement may not mean much. I was actually looking for a repository where i could find present popularity ratings.

  315. A million Floridians have already voted
    Posted on Sun, Jan. 27, 2008Digg AIM reprint print email

    TALLAHASSEE — Two days out from Election Day, nearly one million Floridians have already voted in this year’s presidential primary, a sign that there will likely be a record turnout on Tuesday.

    Eight years ago, the last time there was a contested primary on both the Republican and Democratic side, only about 19 percent of Florida voters, or 1.34 million people, cast ballots. But the decision by the Florida Legislature to hold the primary earlier, coupled with competitive races in both parties, has boosted the number of voters taking part in the election.

    Numbers assembled by the political parties Sunday show that more than 981,000 people have already voted. Early voting continues Sunday in Broward and Miami-Dade counties, but it has already wrapped up in most places around the state.

    ”I think the Legislature’s decision to move Florida’s primary earlier in the process has been vindicated by the overwhelming voter participation that we have already seen,” said Rep. David Rivera, the Miami Republican and sponsor of the bill to change the primary date. “Florida is finally relevant in the presidential nominating process and voters are responding to that newfound relevance.”

    Miami-Dade Elections Supervisor Lester Sola said that, between early voting and absentee ballots, turnout this time around had already matched the 2000 primary turnout. He said that points to plenty of voters showing up on Tuesday.

    ”We’re expecting a busy day,” Sola said.

    Of those who have already voted, nearly 470,000 are registered Republicans and 404,000 are Democrats. An additional 107,000 voters — who are either registered with other parties or are independents — have also voted on the property tax amendment on the ballot.

    Miami Herald website under campaign 2008

  316. This is fro Obama campaign: I am posting this because I think it might be of interest:Looks like they know they might loose. I think Ted kennedy is a “Heil Mary”

    Obama to Press: Senator Clinton has Advantage in “a lot” of the February 5th States
    by Bonney Kapp
    On a flight between Macon, Georgia, and Birmingham, Alabama, Sunday morning, Barack Obama took a few questions from reporters gathered in the aisle of the campaign plane. He walked back to the press section of the airplane to talk to the gaggle for about 7 minutes, as the plane was making its descent into Birmingham’s airport.

    During the avail, he made it clear that Obama was still the underdog going into the February 5th contests – despite his overwhelming victory last night in South Carolina. Jumping from state to state and holding quick rallies – known as “tarmac campaigning” – is not how Obama won Iowa and South Carolina, where he spent a lot of time on the ground talking to voters and organizing a grassroots movement.

    “It presents more of a challenge for us, I don’t think there’s any doubt about it,” he admitted, citing Clinton’s name recognition as a reason. “Here we’re going to have to work with a much more compressed schedule. It’s clear that Senator Clinton, I think, has the advantage in a lot of these states. We would expect them to do very well, but we’re going to campaign and compete across the country and we think we have a strong base of support and certainly coming out of South Carolina, I think we’ve got a lot of energy behind us.”

  317. This primary is pertinent
    Florida’s outcome may affect ‘Tsunami Tuesday’
    By Bill Cotterell
    FLORIDA CAPITAL BUREAU POLITICAL EDITOR Print Email to a friend Subscribe

    For the first time in 32 years, Florida’s presidential primary really matters this week — despite the best political efforts of both parties.

    Florida Democratic Party Chairwoman Karen Thurman hates the term “beauty contest,” but that’s what the Democratic National Committee created by stripping the state of all 210 delegate votes at the party’s nominating convention in Denver next summer.

    The Republican National Committee has cut the Florida delegation in half, to 57 votes, but state GOP Chairman Jim Greer says he’ll gladly “watch the convention from the piano bar of the Holiday Inn,” in return for moving the state’s primary into prime time.

    “What happens this coming Tuesday, as it relates to the presidential primaries, will have an enormous impact on the ultimate nominees of both parties,” said Gov. Charlie Crist. “I would ignore what the national parties have said about reducing or eliminating delegates to the conventions. It’s much more important what people say.”

    Tallahasseee Democrat website

  318. clintondem99, Obama is lowering expectations. We should raise exepctations for him. We should say that given his win in SC and endorsements by Teddy Obama should do really well and sweep the Feb 5 contests.

  319. Florida matters. With a huge turnout already exceeding the number of votes in Iowa, NH, Nevada, a win in Florida matters a lot.

  320. clintondem99,
    It’s the expectations game. After SC Obama is cockier and fuller of himself than he’s ever been.

  321. TPS,
    You’re so right. Obama is now the frontrunner. Albeit a frontrunner with a Rezko-sized problem.

    As the frontrunner Obama must be expected to do very well in all February 5 states, especially as most primaries are closed, and thus for Democrats only. It’s only natural that Democrats will flock to the frontrunner, right…?

  322. From the Philly Enquirer;

    One Last Thing: After four contests, races are less muddled

    By Jonathan Last

    for the Inquirer
    With each party having had four contested primaries (or caucuses), we have a better sense of where the race is going. Let’s go around the horn:

    Hillary Rodham Clinton: After a tough loss in Iowa, Clinton had impressive wins in New Hampshire and Nevada. (At the time of this writing, I’m assuming Barack Obama won South Carolina; if he didn’t, then the race is over.) What was impressive about those wins was how they were structured.

    Clinton won 30 percent of the female vote in Iowa. In New Hampshire, she took 46 percent; in Nevada, 51 percent. In each of those contests, women made up a big majority of the total Democratic vote (57 percent in Iowa and New Hampshire; 59 percent in Nevada), and Clinton has been building a bigger and bigger margin over Obama with them.

    In another important demographic, voters with annual income under $50,000, Clinton was close behind Obama in Iowa. Then she beat him among those voters by 13 and 12 points, respectively, in New Hampshire and Nevada. Clinton was tied with Obama in union households in Iowa; she won them decisively in New Hampshire and Nevada. Clinton won crushing majorities among Catholics in those states, too.

    Put this all together and you have the makings of a traditional Democratic coalition, minus African Americans. As the race has progressed, Clinton has built on her support in each coalition group, and found new support in another key group, Hispanics (which she carried by more than a 2-1 ratio in Nevada).

    There’s a reason this coalition has been winning Democratic elections for more than 40 years. You have to like her chances going into Super Tuesday.

    Barack Obama: All is not lost, yet. But it could be soon. Another group Obama has lost decisively to Clinton are voters worried about the economy. That’s because Clinton talks about the economy often, and in detail. Obama talks almost exclusively about “hope and change,” in little detail. He needs a second act that addresses the economic concerns of voters because the housing collapse, a possible recession, and the tanking stock market are only going to loom larger in this race as time goes on.

    If he can come up with a way to talk effectively about the economy, he may be able to break out and shake loose some of Clinton’s support. If not, he could be finished by the end of February.”

  323. I love this:

    Barack Obama: All is not lost, yet. But it could be soon. Another group Obama has lost decisively to Clinton are voters worried about the economy. That’s because Clinton talks about the economy often, and in detail. Obama talks almost exclusively about “hope and change,” in little detail. He needs a second act that addresses the economic concerns of voters because the housing collapse, a possible recession, and the tanking stock market are only going to loom larger in this race as time goes on.

  324. USAT/Gallup Polls: McCain, Clinton lead in California, New York
    Two new USA TODAY/Gallup Polls today show John McCain and Hillary Clinton leading the Republican and Democratic fields in New York and California. The polls were conducted Wednesday through Saturday; margin of errror is plus or minus 4 percentage points in each state, for each party.

    California Republican results (755 registered voters):
    Arizona Sen. John McCain 35%
    Former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney 27%
    Former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee 12%
    Former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani 11%
    Texas Rep. Ron Paul 5%
    Former diplomat Alan Keyes 1%

    California Democratic results (779 registered voters):
    New York Sen. Hillary Clinton 47%
    Illinois Sen. Barack Obama 35%
    former North Carolina senator John Edwards 10%

    New York Republican results (750 registered voters):
    McCain 42%
    Giuliani 24%
    Romney 14%
    Huckabee 8%
    Paul 5%
    Keyes 1%

    New York Democratic results (767 registered voters):
    Clinton 56%
    Obama 28%
    Edwards 10%

    Cautionary note: These polls are snapshots and both parties’ nomination contests are volatile. Interviews in the Democratic race were conducted before Obama’s big win last night in the South Carolina primary. The GOP race could shift after the Florida primary on Tuesday.

    Update at 5:30 p.m. ET: Our colleague Eun Kyung Kim at Gannett News Service reports that Giuliani’s campaign dismissed the significance of the New York poll. “It’s just one of many that is being taken in a very fluid situation,” said spokeswoman Maria Comella. She said she’s confident of a good showing for the former mayor: “The people of New York know better than anyone what kind of leader Rudy Giuliani is.”

  325. Wouldn’t that be a lovely scene at the convention:

    “Aaaahhhh saaaayyyhh we’re nooo longer Obamacrats, nooo longer Obamicans – we’re all Obamzkos”

  326. I never said this before. I really dislike Mike Allen of Politico. He is a real weasel.Roger simon is the only grown up.

  327. OK.. what would this diary mean? Can clinton campaign somehow GET THE FULL VIDEO OF CONVERSATION AND RELEASE IT?

    the comment goes

    “I am outraged by this story. I saw the ORGINAL clip of the reporters question. He FIRST asked Bill whether Obama could win as a black candidate…then added the second part of the question. The media CUT the first part, then accused Bill of injecting `race’ (with Jesse Jackson) into this response. These tactics are increasingly alarming to me and show that the media is not only deliberately trying to “spin” again Bill Clinton, they are stealing the election from the American people. People need to stand up to this — it is WRONG!”

    My point is.. if it is true, then she should hand it over to bloggers or media just to set the record straight..

  328. Informed in Illinois Says:
    And last, if BO is supposed to be THE ONE that brings everyone together …. IF BO has engaged so many young people, and actually is sincere about being *the one* who can bring (at least some) people together, he accordingly has a great responsibility to stop the hateful talk.

    Might take a look at the kind of ‘uniting’ that Obama did in his inner city Chicago days. It seemed to be something that happened AFTER he had first divided some groups, or at least organized some groups to become so militant that others had to listen.
    Search for Obama + Alinsky – if you can’t find it, I’ll dig for the site, I think it was a TNR article which may no longer be up at TNR but is quoted several places. “Unlikely Education?” “Unlikely political education?”

  329. Looking for some insight here. More and more I’m hearing and reading that Edwards is staying in the race to get as many delegates as he can in the event he can “play kingmaker at a brokered convention.”

    I’m sorry if I’m being dense, chalk it up to the stress of the last few days, topped with a sick child and husband (and me), so I can’t think straight.

    Can someone please break that down to “elections for dummies” for me please?

  330. Clinton schedule for Monday…..

    *all times Eastern

    Monday, January 28

    9:30 am
    Hillary Clinton holds a town hall meeting on the economy in Hartford, Connecticut

    11:30 am
    Hillary Clinton holds a town hall meeting on the economy in Springfield, Massachusetts

  331. i am glad hillary is traversing the nation with her campaign’s message.

    has anyone had the opportunity to read susuanhu’s diary at mydd? giannoulias is apparently tied to rezko.


    I quote:

    Giannoulias is directly connected to the indicted Tony Rezko, who goes on trial on February 25th, following a several-year investigation by the F.B.I. with an indictment written by the U.S. Attorney’s office headed by Patrick Fitzgerald:

    The BROADWAY BANK (owned by Giannoulis and his family) LOANED REZKO PROJECT $11 MILLION DOLLARS: “Rezko and his then-partner in Chicago-Hudson LLC, Daniel Muhra [sic], purchased the site in 2001. But preonstruction sales for the units, priced from about $300,000 to $600,000, floundered, and construction never proceeded. In early 2002 the partnership borrowed about $10.9 million from Chicago-based Broadway Bank to carry the land, according to the bankruptcy filing.” — From the Chicago Tribune on 5/23/06
    The BROADWAY BANK (owned by Giannoulis and his family) HELPED TONY REZKO’S REZMAR CORP. FINANCE A 24-STORY CONDOMINIUM: “When Mahru was a partner with Rezko, their company — Rezmar Corp. — was helped by Thomas’ Carnegie Realty Partners to obtain financing to build a 24-story condominium complex at Chicago and Hudson, a project that ultimately did not get off the ground. The financial institution that backed that deal was Broadway Bank, which is owned by the family of state Treasurer Alexi Giannoulias. Elected in the Democratic sweep last year, Giannoulias has had to answer criticism over loans his bank made to reputed crime figures. “Carnegie brought us to Broadway,” Mahru said, and introduced him to Giannoulias’ father. “We paid Carnegie a 1 percent commission on the loan, which is normal and customary.” A spokesman for Giannoulias referred questions to the bank, which could not be reached.” — From the Chicago Sun-Times, 5/5/07
    And, of course we know that the Broadway Bank was the bank at which Obama opened his campaign fund account.

  333. I just got contacted by the Hillary campaign to do phone calls here in Minnesota! I was a little taken aback that the first thing the guy on the phone asked me was if I was still voting for Hillary which almost makes me suspicious. But anyhow, the calling is done via an email that is sent with a special phone number and the computer makes the call. You just do the talking. It’s not the phone tool on her website.

    Just double this a legitimate phone call from the campaign to do phone calling? Have any others of you been contacted? My caller ID just showed a phone number..Michigan area code.

  334. Yes, I have received both telephone calls and emails from the campaign with information about online phone banks. It is legitimate, and it is rewarding work.

  335. I haven’t yet, but I got a polling call on Friday and at the end of the recording (it said it was sponsored by it asked if you wanted to volunteer and I pushed the button for yes.

    No one contacted me for that yet either. I’m in NJ so I expect it should be soon.

  336. 1950Dem – thanks for the references. I’ve only been involved in chi-politics since 2000 – a black year for all progressive-minded people.

  337. Joeysmom, don’t wait! If you want to make calls from home I think you can sign up on her website. She needs the help now, so don’t wait for the campaign to touch base.

  338. emjay – in response to your post January 27th, 2008 at 3:09 pm

    first allow me to introduce myself. i first logged onto 44 last summer 2007. it was and has been an anticipated escape from my usual environment. i have a full time job in the defense (DoD) industry, surroundings not conducive to garnering democratic, much less hillary, friends. i have cherished my time listening to, learning from and sometimes, responding to the many people @ 44. if in those responses i have offended you, i apologize.

    i live in a state who’s motto is “live free or die”. i do not take kindly to people suppressing what should be an open forum. i do not take kindly to people acting as hall monitors. yes, i realize people are lurking and will use information gathered here as ammunition against our candidate. with my history here @ 44, it should go without saying there is nothing i would do to harm our candidate in any way, shape or form.

    your friend, alcina.

  339. AmGal and Pulch: I’ve received emails with invitations to do phone calling– no phone calls so far.

  340. The only sense I make out of Kennedy is he knows Hillary is going to win, he’s known that ever since NH, and he doesn’t think the Clintons need to beat Obama up — they may be damaging his future unnecessarily. After all, they paid no attention ever to John Edwards, even after all his hits on Hil. These guys (Bill, Hillary, Ted) are lightyears smarter than the asshole pundits, they understand people better. So maybe Ted is trying to repair the damage. Right under the pundits’ noses, Obama goes from ‘the candidate who happens to be black’ to Malcolm X–in two weeks. And I say this as someone who deeply respects Malcolm X. But I think the invisible majority is about to speak. We’ll see in February.

  341. Did anyone see the McLaughlin Group this week? The second half was devoted to Tony Rezko!, complete with video clips, time-line and voice-over by McLaughlin. It is a MUST see. Malaughlin is so pro Hillary that you would want to give him a big hug. It’s more like he’s even handed, but in the current BM environment, that constitutes being pro Hillary. The first half is devoted to the economy, where the panel agreed that Hillary would be the dem nominee and that her economic policies were specific. The part about Rezko is entitled, “The Sleaze Factor”.

  342. Obama strongly supported Giannoulias for State Treasurer and campaigned for him. Giannoulias was a twenty-something with a total of five years of experience working in his dad’s bank, mentioned in Pulch’s post, above. Gian. is one of the “pack of hacks” whom BO endorsed in the last county/state election. His true colors have come to the fore in IL: a machine hack, pure and simple.

    Hill and Bill march to their own drummer – they’re smarter than most and don’t take orders from anyone. This vitriol inside of and outside the party – it’s just jealousy. One woman’s opinion.

  343. I in I,

    I agree with every sentence you have typed. Did you hear Giannoulias on WBBM during the election cycle? He could not complete a sentence.

  344. Sexism. No way that Ted Kennedy is going to go along with breaking open the all-boys club of Presidential politics.

  345. OK, signed up on the website, again. Will let everyone know if/when I get a call or email.

    I work from home (real estate) so I can easily make lots of calls during the day…Especially when the baby is sleeping!

  346. Jaz, pls note that the UK media and the US Corporate Media are quite different. Look for a story in 2000 from a UK source titled something like “Bush’s Devilishly Clever Strategy(?) Against Gore.” It began by comparing the two media and saying the UK’s was more … cantankerous? … than the US, ie less monolitic. It was very accurate about how the US media was giving Bush a pass and attacking Gore on nonsensical non-issues. Same thing is happening now.

    In your UK parliamentary system, and with your UK media, things might be different. But still it seems to me you may be looking at the wrong LEVEL. We want to get an effective, proven, winning problem-solving team back in. Image and symbol and ‘overshadowing’ and all that … are playing in Obama’s territory. We’re about reality, not daydreams and woo-woo.

    As a woman and a feminist, I’d LOSE respect for Hillary if she were to think more about her image and symbol value — than about using the most effective people to get the JOB DONE, even if one of them is Bill.

    I may get flamed for this, but I might be interested to hear a right-pondian perspective about ‘regime restoration’ and Evita and … Inelda? Marcos of the many black shoes…. (No kin to Markos of Kos I assume. 🙂 :-))

    Hillary doesn’t CARE if people criticize her pantsuits or her hairstyle or whatever. She’s got important things to think about.

  347. Hi, informed in illinois, I live in southern illinois. I do not remeber ever seeing Obama in southern illinois after he got elected. what do you think of prospects of reducing Obama’s margin in central and Southern Illinois?

  348. LJ, number had a 517 area code which is Michigan. It was not one of the numbers on the page from your link. I am just a little suspicious as I had a similar call a couple days ago. They said I would receive an email with instructions but I never did.

    There is a phone number in the email. You call in and then the computer you are connected to dial the numbers of voters. You talk to them and record (via the keypad) their answers (I’m guessing if they are going to vote for Hillary, not vote etc..similar to what is on the phone tool).

    The guy on the phone said it is different from the phone tool.

  349. Clintondem99, he rarely comes to central Illinois either. Hill should campaign there and gather some support to get some delegates.

  350. BTW, just watched a clip of Hillary on Face the Nation. Bob Schieffer did keep interrupting her, as others here noted. How rude.

  351. Alcina

    Just read your response to my 3:09 note.

    Please go back and read para 1 and 5. I think you will see that I was encouraging of your and Dot’s and others (cause I couldn’t remember everybody’s names) opinions, and rants, including my own.

    Also, what is a bummer is we got some nasty press today and it continues.

    That’s what started the whole discussion. Loose lips and all that.

    Used to work for the DOE.

    Your friend also.

    Emjay (oops, almost signed off w/ my name)

  352. hawk, it would be nice if she could show up in Illinois and show what a lousy job BO has done Illinois. Bo always brags about how he polled so well with all demographics. He never mentions that he ran against Alan Keyes.

  353. To Emjay at 3:09.

    I did not come here as a troll nor am I one.

    I came here as a supporter of Hillary to find out what I might could do to help as one person and to join in conversation with other supporters.

    I am not as educated as you nor those who can bring real brains as you say to this site.

    I am cheering her campaign on and hope ferverently to see her become POTUS.

    If I am not welcome here, I respect the admin decision.

    Peace and blessings to each of you

  354. That McLaughlin video was painful…. Painful because I wanted to reach through the screen and bitch-slap that blonde. And he called her on it. She’s pro-Obama basically because she hates the Clintons.

    My husband keeps telling me that even if she gets the nomination, there are so many “Clinton-haters” out there, that even though they are Democrats, and dispise the Bush Administration and the last 7 years, they’ll end up voting republican to keep both of them out of the White House.

    Someone tell me he is wrong….that Americans are much more intelligent than that. I just can’t come to terms with people tossing away another 4 or 8 years over personal feelings instead of choosing the candidate who will best get this country back on the right track.

  355. She should. Wouldn’t be too hard. She should work Peoria, Springfield, Cairo, East Saint Louis, Rock Island, Moline and Rockford. Just forget Chicago for the most part (except maybe Park Ridge).

  356. Thanks, Informed in Illinois. I knew about some of that (IVI whatsis admitting the Alice Palmer thing and now being split between Obama and Hillary) but not all. More details woudl be great.

    I’ve been getting the impression of this empty suit of silver armour floating around in dirty Chicago from the first, getting help from dirty people. And maybe being passed from one group of ‘fixers’ to another, and at this point up to the GOP to operate the puppet for a while.

  357. Psymac-thanks. I waited all day to see it and in my area they blocked it out for basketball and the Buick Open.

  358. dot48, you are always welcome here. Education has nothing to do with one’s heart and character. I am new here also and I have always found you civil.

  359. Cool. Hopefully they get out and vote. I am not there now, but I live in Davenport/Bettendorf, Iowa which is right across the Mississippi from Rock Island/Moline. There is support for her there too. I hope these people aren’t disenchanted from voting because they are in his state.

  360. YAYYYYYYYYYYYYY lets get to work fellas.. dot, alcina,emjay and other good buddies.. we got lots of stuff to do.. you guys will be surprised with my math formulation of improved prediction of poll results based in increased AA turnout.. y’all will be happy with this new model.. those who can make phone calls should make em.. those who can post diaries and debunk stories should do em. this inbickering doesnt help us.. NONE of us are trolls.. we are all unique and are motivated by common cause of supporting Hillary.. remember our discussions before the day of NH primary? how panicked were we.. lets make sure we are equally panicked today and do whatever we can to help her campaign!

  361. dot48, I have had several conversations with you and found you caring ,loving and very loyal to Hillary. You are always welcome

  362. so y’all think hillary has solid chance in IL? I mean she was raised there.. I would guess she can invoke her roots? she surely connects extremely well with the populance.. obama will be drilling a dent into her AA base in NY for sure..

  363. gladiatorstail

    you are absolutely right (i let my irish-italian get the better of me!) let’s move on and get working to elect the greatest candidate of my lifetime, hillary rodham clinton!!

    with that, good night, all.

  364. gladiatorstail, a lot of people here in Illinois think that Obama’s land deal with Rezko sounds fishy. I was talking to some friends of ours
    who voted for Obama in 2004 and they are not happy with this. There are friends I have who voted for Clinton but did not vote for Gore or Kerry (don’t ask me why) and they still have highly positive feelings about Bill Clinton.

  365. gladiator.. Obama keeps talking about hope and change and what he could do for the world. won’t it be nice if she comes to Illinois to his back yard and people could tell her he is all talk and no action.

  366. She can’t win in Illinois because the city of chicago will go predominantly for Obama. I am not sure about downstate.

  367. from Drudge

    NYT LEAD MONDAY: Hillary’s campaign will try to ‘shift former President Bill Clinton back into positive, supportive-spouse role’ he played before her loss in Iowa…

    Also, headline “Hillary campaigns in Florida”. Not true of course. She is at a non-public, non-media fundraiser. There are pictures of her in Florida in the article.

  368. It is for more PR and reduce Obams’s margin. Is it worth it? It is for her campaign to figure it out.

  369. MJ, are you kidding me? He’s got a better chance of me becoming BFF with his ex-wife!!!! Believe me, he dreads when me and my father get together because it’s solid, Clinton-love everywhere!!!!

  370. The Clinton campaign will adjust tactics! Feb 5 is not in depth in-state campaigning like Iowa or NH. It will be tarmac-to-tarmac, fly-by-night operation dependent on free TV and TV ads. Bill Clinton will campaign effectively under the radar.

  371. Caroline, Obama was there for fundraisers! I don’t think he is campaigning there in the sense of rallies etc. He was in New Jersey.

  372. Typically, these campaigns kind of grant the homestate. When Tom Harkin ran in 1992, no one campaigned in Iowa because it was his home state.

  373. Hi, all – sorry, I stepped away for a bit.
    ClintonDem and Hawk – they never report any poll numbers for IL – everyone assumes its a forgone conclusion. As for peeling away support downstate and central IL – Sen. Durbin has endorsed BO and he is from Downstate and is well respected.

    Hawk, north shore would be tough in the 9th and 10th CD’s. It’s a lot like where I am in near west ‘burbs. But, like you I know lots of people who support Hill. I have a core group of women friends from all over the city and suburbs who support Hill and we’ll do a calling parties this week. I’m trying to do my part whenver I see a chance!

  374. On a separate note, can you see how Romney and McCain are beating up on each other? There is no media handwringing on a dividend party, I don’t see party establishment providing anonymous quotes to the media about how all this is hurting their chances in the fall. The campaign on the Democratic side has been quite civil. It is just that the media and Obama supporters treat Obama as “precious” and not to be attacked but revered.

  375. I have been reading that Kennedy will make an impassioned speech for Obama tomorrow. Would he attack Bill Clinton by name?

  376. We will see how impassioned it gets! I actually would like to see a picture of Obama and Teddy holding hands together high in the air. That would neatly fit with the “focus on the future”, no?

  377. I saw Meet The Press, she gave wonderful answers and held the moral high ground throughout the interview.

    Obama on the other hand did not. In Nevada he was a poor loser-ran. In SC he was a poor winner-condescends. Not presidential, period.

    The role of Big Media in all this is even worse. The people I talk to are outraged about it. Strategically they have overplayed their hand.

    I spoke to a Republican friend of mine who lives in East Texas. He will be voting for Hillary and will become a Democratic delegate. He has no intention of being “bamboozled” by Big Media.

  378. 1950Dem – I share your understanding re BO empty suit. It took a while to put the picture together, though.

  379. Dot48

    Please, this is coming from the person who recommended simmering cinnamon and cloves, and that is the most intelligent thought I’d had in a week.

    Please go back and read what I said to Alcina at 8:33, posted probably as you were writing yours, and then, please please, reread what I said at 3:09.

    P.S. Did the prospects make a bid on the house?

  380. I love how my friend who is an Obama supporter is making a HUGE deal about the Kennedy endorsements but DOWNPLAYING the fact that Floridians are being disenfranchised. UNBELIEVABLE. This just shows you that it’s not just the Clintons and their supporters who are willing to do anything to win. He’s saying that Florida shouldn’t matter because it’s unfair that Obama has no name recognition down there. Um…wtf kind of excuse is that? I’m going to guess that anyone who plans to get off their arse to vote in the Democratic election will know who Clinton, Obama, and Edwards. I think that is the lamest excuse ever. Can anyone justify this excuse or think my friend is correct? I don’t get it. Anyway, Obama has defied DNC rules by airing ads on CNN so I guess they know him now! So I guess thousands of Floridian voters must face the fact that they will have absolutely no voice in this election because Obama supporters feel he doesn’t have the name recognition to win. So lame.

  381. Thanks Informed! There is an excellent post in Left Coaster by eriposte on the percentage of AA and white votes the various candidates got in Iowa, NH, NV, and SC. Obamas share of both white and AA votes actually declined but he won big in SC because of the increased turnout among AA.
    eripsote suggests that Bill Clinton’s campaign probably increased Hillary’s share of the AA vote in SC. It is good read.

    Also Mat Stoller has an article in Open Left noting that the Clinton campaign essentially pulled out of SC in December perhaps choosing to concentrate their resources elsewhere.

  382. HEHS – Right! Dems stand for respecting the rule of law, increasing ballot access and protecting voter franchise. Period.

  383. HEHS, I agree, everyone has the same name recognition now. If a Democratic voter doesn’t know Obama now after all the positive and glowing media he has gotten then when will they know? I think Florida is a fair fight and a true test.

  384. Thanks TPS – will look those up tomorrow noon hour. I thought that reducing resources in SC and sending Prez. Bill there was very smart. And as you noted and someone posted earlier, BO’s % of AA vote in all states so far has been consistent. Good news: 80% of zero is zero.

  385. IL friends: isn’t there a way to promote the “NOT ENDORSED” by Independent Voters of IL? Kinda negates OB’s positioning.

  386. Glad-

    Thanks for the rally ’round call. Have e-mailed my note to 5 folks, one phone call and 3 emails back already trying to help me figure out what ?

    They say, in essence, there’s nothing in what I said, forget it, so I will; but the negatives about this board this morning on dkos, with the direct quotes from here, have unnerved me.

    First time I can remember anything on the net except guessing, innuendo and jealousy re pink pages…never something someone here actually did.

    I’ll let it go.

  387. That N.Y. Times article just proves my point that what Bill did in SC was totally planned. I knew he’d go back to being low key after that.

  388. AmericanGal I hope not. If any loyalty has left in those old guard of the Democratic party they should not. I can understand if Kerry don’t support Hillary, but he didn’t support his own vice presidential nominee and instead trying to find dirt on Bill Clinton. If it was happening the other time and with other party – I would be laughing here. But all this makes me very sad. Dashle, Kerry, Kennedy all these old has beens and looser that didn’t win anything. The only thing that drives them today is ENVY. Nothing else. I hope at least Gore will find decency in him and don’t say nothing.

  389. im furious over ted kennedy today and worried. he said is going to feb states to union halls etc.. can this be a good thing for us? i hope rfk jr pops up in ca to campaign. if gore endorses obama we could have some real trouble. also-what about boxer? her son or soemthing is married into hillary’s family. once again hillary looks ot be under seige. and i think once again she will win as the networks and establishment ebat up on her

  390. I have posted the text of the Eriposte article from Left Coast because it is important. For whites looks like C:36, E: 40, O: 22. (In my opinion Edwards success with whites is based on the fact he was born there and his anti-globalization message–more so than debate)

    “If the exit poll data from NBC is correct, then, the following conclusions are reasonable:

    Black Vote

    Sen. Obama increased his share of the Black vote going from IA to NV (no surprise given that IA gave him a big boost), but he actually lost some share of the Black vote to Sen. Clinton☼ in South Carolina. This suggests that Bill Clinton’s pitch to Black voters in SC might have indeed convinced some Black voters to switch to Sen. Clinton, from Sen. Obama.

    Sen. Edwards and the other candidates essentially lost their share of the Black vote – primarily to Sen. Obama – after IA and their share of the Black vote has not changed meaningfully since then.

    White Vote

    Sen. Obama’s share of the White vote had been relatively stable from IA to NH to NV, but he lost a noticeable share of the White vote in SC to Sen. Edwards.

    Sen. Clinton had been significantly growing her share of the White vote – partially from other candidates who have left the race but particularly at the expense of Sen. Edwards – going from IA to NH to NV. However, in SC, like Sen. Obama, she lost a chunk of the white vote to Sen. Edwards.

    In a nutshell, then:

    Sen. Obama actually underperformed both on the white vote (significantly) and the black vote (by a small amount) in South Carolina compared to Nevada. Hence, his impressive margin of victory over Sen. Clinton was largely because of the huge Black turnout.

    Sen. Clinton actually appears to have slightly gained some share of the Black vote from Sen. Obama, going from NV to SC – suggesting that contrary to the almost always wrong press corpse, Bill Clinton likely helped her in SC with black voters. However, she lost a chunk of the White vote to Sen. Edwards in SC. I suspect this is because she decided to not really compete in SC and focused much of the campaign activity in SC on wooing Black voters.

    The most understated story in SC is that of Sen. Edwards. He held his miniscule share of the Black vote but grabbed significant chunks of the White vote from both Sen. Clinton and Sen. Obama in SC. Why? I don’t know but it may have been due to his debate performance as well as the ad he ran in SC using his debate performance. To me, this is really the second biggest story out of SC”

  391. good one-
    How the Media Destroys Obama
    By Craig Crawford | January 27, 2008 1:00 PM | Permalink | Comments (317)

    Talk about killing with kindness. Supporters of Barack Obama should be wary of the news media’s feverish gushing for the Democratic White House hopeful.

    For starters, it was media romanticism – not Hillary Rodham Clinton’s hardball campaigning – that made Obama the “black candidate.” This happens, albeit unwittingly, every time a journalist waxes poetic about the historic step forward of seeing an African-American in a viable run for the presidency. (And yet, when Bill Clinton talks about Obama’s appeal to black voters, it is decried as “injecting race.”)

    Obama also runs the risk of a backlash against the media being seen as force feeding him to Democratic primary voters.

    In South Carolina, the anti-Clinton media frenzy might have suppressed Obama’s white vote as much as any other possible cause – although many appeared to move toward John Edwards instead of Clinton. A similar backlash against media overkill probably contributed to Obama’s last-minute loss to Clinton in New Hampshire.

    The Washington press club’s love affair with Obama allows many of a certain generation to indulge the fantasy of returning to their youth as starry-eyed believers in John F. Kennedy and Robert F. Kennedy. Hence, the voluble response to Caroline Kennedy’s endorsement in today’s New York Times and the trembling expectations of a similar move by Sen. Ted Kennedy.

    Still, Obama could be excused for welcoming media group think that has gone stark raving mad for his candidacy. But in the long run he might be well advised to dismiss the hype and build a relationship with voters that remains independent of what fickle journalists say.

  392. Nobody cares what that old hag Ted Kennedy thinks. The most powerful democratic endorsement is Bill Clinton and Hillary has that one 🙂

  393. I cant believe ted kennedy,well lotts like above that what is wrong with the world and his mary jo episode… my opinion.

    I have aunt in ILL
    the rezko and the gov and bloagovich ..well Chi town and they own big bussiness there..she will get lotts of votes…

    GO Hillary GO!!!

    Oh and Bo says his record among lationos in ILL no way..not this time..they are tired of crooks..

  394. I am worry that ted kennedy will help BHO take some Latinos away from Hillary. but I think his endorsement come a little too late to have any major impact. his name is old and I don’t think people will pay any attention to what he say. maybe he should retire.

  395. The old generation of Kennedy men have always been in my opinion male chauvinist. It doesn’t surprise me that Ted Kennedy would support Obama over Hillary. He can’t bare to see the old boys club be broken.. What an a$$!

  396. The Clintons are much more popular with Hispanics than the Kennedys will ever be.. No worries meiyingsu 🙂

  397. As a Latino, I can ASSURE you beyond a shadow of a doubt that this endorsement will do NADA por Barack. don’t worry about that. LATINOS are behind her no worries.

  398. and Hillary is native of Illinois…i think she will pull it off with this rezko thing out ..its in the papers all the way down the mississippi river…to st louis…

  399. texan4hillary, I have concerns as well although I’m not sure how it will really play out with Kennedy. I am starting to think the following: if the N.H. primary really was a backlash against the media pushing their choosen candidate on voters then we should see it happen again. Especially so as we get to the Super Tuesday states and people realize that this is a big event that will likely choose the Dem. nominee.

    I wonder that, in the end, average Americans really can be bamboozled this time after having voted for Bush the Uniter and seeing what they got. I have a story: one of my co-workers, a woman, doesn’t know if she should support Obama or Hillary. She is not a political junkie so she doesn’t know all the things we know–just what is on the news. Despite that, and despite the glowing relentless Obama spin she has doubts. She knows the Clintons did well for our country. She knows Obama is a rank newbie. That is stopping her from getting on the bandwagon. People are having this debate. Surely many will be turned off by the obvious and excessive media love for Obama. Others will catch on that he really doesn’t have plans for anything. Bushes speech on Monday will bring up discussions on many of the challenges facing us and that could have an impact too.

    I think that we need to hang in there and not lose focus. Let’s watch how things play out but keep in mind there is still a way to go and many things can happen yet.

  400. I’m not even going to try to guess the tension/relationships/friendships among all of these “old school” Democrats. Kerry, the Kennedy’s, Gore…their reasons for endorsing Obama or Hillary are hidden behind rhetoric and lies. I knew that Kerry was never planning to endorse Edwards because apparently they never got along during the 2004 campaign. I’m going to guess that there also exists jealousy and the threat that if the Clintons win that they will be the new Camelot and replace the Kennedy’s who are all dying out. Kerry also seemed like the guy who wants to be cool but can’t pull it off. These old politicians are using Obama to make themselves look fresh with the willingness to “change”. It also looks great for these white bread elitists to endorse the first viable black candidate. The Kennedy’s want to continue their trailblazer legacy of opening doors and introducing new opportunities to minorities. That is what they want their legacy to be a hundred years from now in the history books.

    I’m sorry but I can’t imagine these people endorsing an inexperienced senator unless they got something out of it. All of these people are calculating. People think Clinton is bad? She honestly seems the most genuine of all these politicians I’ve just named. I worked in D.C. and have met some of them. It is true that politicians don’t just help anyone for no reason. These endorsements will make these old farts more than it will help Obama. Endorsements only help with name recognition and an extra 5 minutes on television. What really matters is what happens on the campaign trail in the next several weeks and HRC has always had him beat when it comes to voter outreach and proving herself the most experienced and qualified candidate.

  401. Hillary arrives in Siesta Key for fund-raiser

    U.S. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton breezed into Siesta Key today fresh off a primary loss in South Carolina to Barack Obama. A neighbor to the private fund-raiser said she wouldn’t be surprised to see Clinton fight back. The candidate herself said earlier in the day Florida’s voters needed to be heard.

    Wearing a purple pants suit, Clinton rode a fast-moving motorcade onto the north end of Siesta Key in Sarasota County and delighted about 250 people who support her bid to become the Democratic nomineee for president in 2008.

    “She’s a strong woman, who is not afraid of what might come at her,” said Alba Vosburgh, a member of the Manatee Democratic Executive Committee who attended the party for Clinton at Myrna and David Band’s home on Siesta Key.

    Vosburgh, from Palma Sola, and fellow Democratic Executive Committee member Mandy Arb, from west Bradenton, each donated $1000 to attend the event.

    Neither had ever met Clinton personally but noted they would have had to pay $2300 to attend the VIP reception at the same event where they could have shaken her hand.

    The two women were inside the Band compound where guests dined on tiny hamburgers on pretzel-dough buns made by Fet Catering, which is owned by Tommy Kauber of the new Polo Grill in Lakewood Ranch.

    Clinton’s motorcade of vans with heavily tinted windows breezed by neighbors and the news media, who were kept a distance from the Band house where Clinton disembarked to join the festivities.

    Clinton came to Florida to fulfill the scheduled fund-raiser following a big primary election loss to Obama in South Carolina. In that state on Saturday, Obama polled 55 percent of the vote to Clinton’s 27 percent.

    Florida’s primary vote is Tuesday and the National Democratic Party is refusing to acknowledge delegates from the Sunhshine State because state leaders moved the primary to a date earlier than allowed.

    As a result, Democrats have not campaigned in Florida.

    In Memphis early Sunday, Clinton said she was going to Florida to assure Democrats that “their voices are heard” and to underscore her promise to see that the state’s delegation is seated and their votes counted at the national convention.

    ” Hundreds of thousands of people have already voted in Florida and I want them to know I will be there to be part of what they have tried to do to make sure their voices are heard,” the Associated Press reported Clinton as saying.

    At the Siesta Key gathering, Clinton did not make a public statement.

    The Bands’ neighbors stood by the road trying to catch a glimpse of Clinton, but it was useless.

    Susan Allbee, Band’s next-door neighbor, said she felt that Saturday was a seminal moment in the Democratic primary run. She said she thought Obama had momentum.

    Allbee also said, “I admire Hillary. She seems to take adversity in stride. And I wouldn’t be surprised if she fought back and ended up doing well again.”

    Allbee draped a tiny banner on her 8-year-old, Jack Russell terrier named Polo that read, “Jack Russell’s for Hillary.”

    She held the dog up so Clinton might stop in her motorcade, but the cars did not pause.

  402. BREAKING: Hillary Clinton To Vote “No” On Cloture Tomorrow
    By: Jane Hamsher Sunday January 27, 2008 7:12 pm

    Hillary Clinton will be in the Senate tomorrow to vote “no” on cloture on the Intel version of the FISA bill. The vote is scheduled to take place at 4:30 pm tomorrow.

    I’ve also been trying to confirm whether Barack Obama will be there. His campaign people have not gotten back to me, but Obama does have a 4pm fundraiser scheduled in Washington DC.

    Bravo, Senator Clinton. Well done!

  403. I’m so glad about the FISA vote! Go Hillary! I think she ought to take the whole champion of the constitution theme and run with it anyway. This is no longer a “Liberal” issue after Bush’s abuses.

    She could get a lot of traction out of championing protecting the rights of the people to privacy, due process, etc. It a big reason why Ron Paul has done so well.

  404. Now they have reported that Obama will be there to vote no tomorrow. Of course. I knew he was going to be there if HRC shows up.

  405. this is what hillary needs to do. she is a leader and helping block this dumb fisa bill is great. cant wait to read more and blast it on the blogs

  406. What is too funny is that Obama had a fundraiser in DC scheduled at about the time of the vote. Hmmmmm….. so he wasn’t planning to be there, until just now. LOL!

  407. meiyingsu.. for all practical purposes the latinos dont even know who teddy is.. hill has been everywhere. to their neighbourhoods, to their TV’s, to their radio shows.. everywhere.. why do you think she had a tough problem answering the drivers license question..

  408. T4H, Don’t worry about Ted Kennedy. Also, remember Hillary built her campaign around doing well on Super Tuesday.

  409. hes -[Playing follow the leader he has no clue what goes on in wash…or even his JOB in the Senate…In Illinois he has no intention of helping anyone in ILLNOIS>and they know he has not even been in his office there for a long ~~~~ long time….

  410. Ok guys, tomorrow morning and day will be a rough one for Hillary. However, hopefully by 7pm, it should start to turn with the focus on the SOTU. Then the next’s day news cycle should focus on analysis of the SOTU and the GOP primary day in FL.

    We should also see the first polls out after the SC win by Bambi. It will be interesting to see what his bump will be in the presidential poll and then the other Feb5 TT states. I expect the races to tighten, however, if she could pull out a +20pt win in FL or better, give a c ampaign speech at 9pm after thepolls close, they should help to blunt bambi’s momentun.

    Then we turn to Thursday for the debate in CA. Does anyone know who is sponsering and monitoring the debate? I would hiiope that she prepares her self for the immigration question and Dr. Licenses. They will try to hit her on those

  411. Off topic but…

    Did anyone see This Week this morning? I’ve been reading that Stephanopolus really went after Obama on Rezko including reading a section directly from a Chicago Tribune article saying that Obama couldn’t have been in the dark over Rezko’s indictment and dealings and yet kept associating with him anyway. He evidently also asked about Obama giving back more money donated by Rezko since the amounts stated by his campaign don’t match what’s being reported by the newspapers.

    I’d love to see a clip of this…

  412. gladiatorstail Says:

    January 27th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
    meiyingsu.. for all practical purposes the latinos dont even know who teddy is.. hill has been everywhere. to their neighbourhoods, to their TV’s,

    your right shes been in there homes over long years…shes been to dinners with em and everything…

  413. tiburones, perhaps Hillary will be making some news tomorrow also. It may not be just an all-Obama day. You never know…

    I agree that things will change by evening and Tuesday. I look forward to the debate…

  414. guys, I know i say this a lot but from now till Feb 5th, I hope you all pick a respective state…namely the big 5:

    New York
    New Jersey

    to do some major phone calling for Hillary! We need to concentrate the collective forces of Hillfans who will, assuredly with the brilliance of the future Madame President and First Laddee, help Hillary clinch Feb 5th!

    + I agree with many of you that Hillary should use her probable win on Tuesday as a momentum generator. She failed in that respect in michigan where she could’ve delivered a thankful speech afterwards and thanked michigan and had some momentum…but Florida, i am confident the Hillary campaign won’t make the same mistake again.

    She must travel down to florida and hold a post-election rally (that way, it is within DNC rules) and VERY VERY VERY PUBLICLY thank the Floridians with an impassioned and well prepared speech saying ON NATIONAL TELEVISIOn that ALL voices deserve to be heard in America and that she, as the future president, will make sure that all voices are heard and will not let rules tell her that millions of voters must be forgotten or invisible…just as the Bush politics have made them.

  415. Does anyone have any insight as to how Hillary’s team have been organizing in the TT 22 states? Does she have a good GOTV plan, deep roots etc? I think I read than Ruben Kihuen of Las Vegas was being sent to CA to work on the voters.

    I think that Hillary will do fine in CA. By Kennedy saying that he will campaign with Bambi to win the Hispanic vote…I don’t believe they have the time. I truly think that Latinos will stay with Hillary. From my experience. they like family and people who are familiar to them. Bambi is new and I don’t see them going for the change argument.

    zI expect Senator Kennedy to go to CA, AR, NM, NY? Arizon etc. However, I don’t believe that it will help him.

  416. tiburones.. DL question is gone. its already made two rounds..

    cnn is hosting it.. so hill and others can bully wolf.. he typically has NO CONTROL over the debate.. the new memo in CNN is bash clintons.. so he will keep interrupting her every now and then, but again he is huge supporter of her.. so wont go overboard..

  417. tiburones, From Day 1, Hillary’s campaign has been built around doing well in the very large TT states especially.

    MJS, On the previous thread, you had a post about Obama running low on money, etc. Where was that from?

  418. Bill Clinton > Senator kennedy on any day…but now, the Obamas do have the extra weight of someone who some people in the country actually find credible (versus the joke that is Senator John Kerry, the man who made “swiftboat” a verb).

    The Clinton’s should simultaneoulsy employ their own highly respected officials to campaign in the same spots as Ted Kennedy and use this time to encourage more canvassers to focus on popular sections of Cali, NY, IL, Mass, NJ, etc. HRC can easily get thouands of canvassers per state, I believe, and at least change the minds of some undecideds by Feb 5th. She has the resources for a compelling GOTV program that Obama is inexperienced to accomplish.

  419. Paula, I am friends with people who are part of the Obama campaign and are close to the inner workings to his campaign’s high people.

    They have been frantic ever since New Hampshire and only more frantic after Nevada. They are not taking the news of Florida well and are seriously considering sending Barack Obama to Florida on Tuesday night as well so as not to be eclipsed by HRC.

  420. MJS, I’m sure the Clintons knew for a while that Ted Kennedy was going to endorse Obama. They’ll do what they need to, if anything.

  421. dont they have any other moderators than timmihbussert and wolfditz and brian williams we need new moderators…in this country for debates not the same old crap questions from them,,people are really getting tired of them..i am for sure…they think they can play gotcha and do tricks and all kinds of things..i dont respect any of them people i respected were walter conkrite….he is the only one i liked and peter jennings to… lol..

  422. The shameless hate-attacks from the Repugs controlled big media have reached its peak after the results in SC. But who cares what the Repug’s mouthpiece preaches? May be the other campaigns do care but Hillary is already immune against the empty bottle big media. Hillfans be glad and jump with joy because of this hate-celebration as your torments and dismay will soon find an end, with Hillary standing as the nominee. Hillary’s nomination will mark the beginning of the end of bigotry, misogyny and other vermin in America. History will laugh at the mean big media and at the anti-Hillary coalition of the losers. You can see now all envy people are now creeping out of their dark holes and try to stop Hillary from steering America into 21st century. They will never succeed, because their time is gone, it is no longer there, sorry for them and their surrogates.
    Hillary and Bill and their supporters are a winner Team and never change a winning team

  423. MJS, What you said sounded very credible. I was just curious. Thanks! 🙂

    I also found the part about both Obamas being worn out pretty interesting. This campaign has been awfully loooooooooonnnnnnnnngggg and grueling.

  424. They are not taking the news of Florida well and are seriously considering sending Barack Obama to Florida on Tuesday night as well so as not to be eclipsed by HRC.good let him spend some more money lol…he keeps asking for more everyday in emails on his site…what is he doing with all this money..

  425. btw, just to let you know:

    the national ad buy was a very hasty move by Obama. After losing Nevada, the campaign analyzed how poorly they did with crucial groups and could ONLY think of the National ad buy. It was their last initiative, so to speak, and the Obamas were not happy with nevada results. He spent some of that time when he returned to Chicago in a heated debate with campaign officials on how best to win in those demographics in what he is now realizing is an almost insurmountable legion of Clinton force.

    S. Carolina was a good win, but more worrying than reassuring. They have already sent out many memos to twist the narrative into one that is not racially charged or focused on the black-80% or so that did vote for him.

    So in short, the national ad buy was a rash decision that many saw as a last stand until S. Carolina came. (many also feared a loss there too as much of their polling indicated undecideds and people who merely leaned Obama instead of STRONGLY for Obama.)

  426. Hillary needs to send Edward Romero and Henry Cisneros to the very same places/cities where Kennedy stumps for Obama. Who would attract more support? Two respected Hispanic leaders or one establishment politician? There is also the Hispanic gal from Nevada (can’t remember her name) who was instrumental in building Hispanic support for her there.

    Also, perhaps Richardson will endorse Hillary. Something to watch..

  427. for all practical purposes the latinos dont even know who teddy is..

    That’s not quite true — he was the only senator to speak at the big immigration rally in dc (while others were taking place across the country). It got a lot of publicity.

  428. and btw, from what I understand, Obama came up with some of that Malcom X crap by himself and thought it was funny.

  429. meiyingsu, I originally said that…and from what I understand, the Obamas are afraid of being eclipsed by HRC on Tuesday. They are not afraid of being eclipsed by Bill, but HRC is different.

    if he ISN’T in florida, he will be busy either trying stunts or spinning ways to degrade the Florida win too.

  430. Kennedy WILL NOT PULL LATINOS from her. I am sad to say this, but for most Latinos in Cali and New York and elsewhere, there is too much racial tension and there is no way they will go to obama in any significant number at all. Calm down all. As a Latino, who works in Latino political outreach on campus, this will not happen. The Latino students here split between Hillary and Bill Richardson.

  431. Pfffffffffffffft! Please. A speech by the Teddy is not going to overcome the presence of Cisneros, Romero, Villaraigosa, and Dolores Huerta campigning, even aside from the LONG RELATIONSHIP that Hillary herself has with the Latino community.

    No worries, HLR. “Come se llama Obama?” 😉

  432. I know I am speaking too early…but for GE prospects, Hillary should consider tapping the Asian vote. There are literally Millions of Asians who almost universally support HRC but do not know how/where to register to vote.

    They would vote for her in a heartbeat.

  433. thanks msj i knew you seen i wrote what u…so thanks for helping meiying///

    ..i hope hillary is taking good ole fashion…hot tea and lemon,honey,and im sure she drinks maybe the good kind earl gray tea..for her voice…she is so strong,the hardest worker of any woman I have seen./.. maybe Barbara S gives her a few pointers for her voice becasue actually its like singing that voice talking day to day speech after speech……and dont Barabara S have a home in Arizona too…and Cal…so its impossible for Teddy to get support there and all of hillarys friends latinos…hispanicis and all those richardson people who endorsed her…

  434. currently, everyone STLIL thinks the Obambi campaign is most afraid of Bill Clinton. That is incorrect.

    While they envy his ability with words and popularity, they feel his extreme involvement would eclipse his wife’s campaign and feel that his involvement would bring the past scandals back into play.

    What they do fear is the time when Hillary finds her rhythm and can deliver her points as well and as popularly to voters as Bill can. They still underestimate her, but they fear her because she has untapped potential for her own presidency.



    I would imagine, some of the old guard, have enjoyed bill clintons banishment from the hard core politics.
    they have had the stage all to themselves, they thought he was put out to pasture and out of their hair.
    and ofcourse, they had no intention of putting a woman in the office, especially another clinton, and worse hillary…




    anyway, we are all going to see who takes check mate here soon…
    and we are going to see, just how many people still love and believe in the clintons. the answer is right around the corner…

  436. thanks msj for i knew you seen what i wrote from u lol..thanks for helping

    i want him to spend that money lol…

    i too i hope hillary is taking good ole fashion…hot tea and lemon,honey,and im sure she drinks maybe the good kind earl gray tea..for her voice…she is so strong,the hardest worker of any woman I have seen./.. maybe Barbara S gives her a few pointers for her voice becasue actually its like singing that voice talking day to day speech after speech……and dont Barabara S have a home in Arizona too…and Cal…so its impossible for Teddy to get support there he talks with his head down….he wont look at people in the eyes…and all of hillarys friends latinos…hispanicis

  437. Informed in Illinois Says: 1950Dem – I share your understanding re BO empty suit. It took a while to put the picture together, though.

    Me too. Actually the first job he applied for was when some white groups in Chicago advertised all over the country for a Black guy to hire as a ‘community organizer’ which might kind of set the pattern. 🙂 Most recently some GOP, Durbin??, took him on as protegee and gave him a Foreign Relations Committee post, like the GOP was grooming him for something. And in the meantime he was helping oldtime Chicago people like Daley JR, whose election was supposed to be a ‘healing thing’???

    I wonder why Ted Kennedy and such people are getting into it, wanting a share of the puppet strings?

  438. thanks msj helping meiy///i knew you seen what i wrote from you///

    i want him to spend that money…

    i hope to hillary is taking good ole fashion…hot tea and lemon,honey,and im sure she drinks maybe the good kind earl gray tea..for her voice…she is so strong,the hardest worker of any woman I have seen./.. maybe Barbara S gives her a few pointers for her voice becasue actually its like singing that voice talking day to day speech after speech……and dont Barabara S have a home in Arizona too…and Cal…so its impossible for Teddy to get support there he talks with his head down and looks thru those big glasses..and doesnt look at anyone in the eyes..and all of hillarys friends latinos…hispanicis and richardsons people who endorse her..

  439. I’m a new user here but I’ve lurked for a few months now and there are a few things i’d like to get off my chest. First I’m a big hillary supporter! I think she would be our strongest nominee for the general & a really good president. She has her flaws as all the candidates do. But I have to say all the handwringing on this site has GOT TO STOP! I think some of you put way too much stock in the msm & their talking heads. I mean Obama has gotten mostly positive coverage for months now and he’s still way behind in national & most state polls. Thats just fact. And I’m sorry I like and respect a lot about Ted K but if you think anyone is gonna be swayed by his endorsement I have land to sell you in Bagdad!

  440. MJS.. I agree with you.. Bill is only helping hillary take control. he is giving her cover so he wards off attacks and keeps obama under defense while hillary delivers message across the country IMO..

  441. BTW;

    i have found out more as to why Obama is jumping in early. He knows he is inexperienced and he knows he is not ready…but why campaign now?

    simple: rezko.

    Obama is bright, but has VERY big ambitions. He is determined to be the first African American president. FRom what I understand, he didn’t want to run this early….but two words forced him: rezko scandal.

    Rezko getting indicted and appearing in court is very frightening for OBama. He knows, very well, that he is involved with Rezko FAR deeper than anyone believes or understands. Some ugly secrets will be revealed. The Obama campaign, when they had first run, never thought that Rezko case would come to leeway as early as it is now (february). Their supporters in IL have tried, to no avail, to urge a decision made later and/or to push the case far back so as to keep barack clean.

    The reason? Barack is much much more heavily involved in Rezko than anyone suspects. It’s the reason their MUTUAL friendship has lasted for so long and the reason Obama has, up til this campaign, considered Rezko a wonderful person to him.

    Obama has done favors. Many, it is believed (from what my friend is willing to disclose).

    keep in mind, my friend has turned for Hillary in these past few weeks, but is staying in the Barack campaign 😀

    I like having enemies of my enemies 😀

  442. Hillary Clinton will be in the Senate tomorrow to vote “no” on cloture on the Intel version of the FISA bill. The vote is scheduled to take place at 4:30 pm tomorrow.

    4:30 huh? Looks like Hillary’s buddy Harry Reid gave a little elbow jab to Senators Kennedy and Obama…

    That’s pretty funny.

    Gee, I wonder if there will be some “delays” for a couple of hours while Obama’s fundraiser crowd cools its heels?

  443. MJS, you need to post more. The things you have been reporting are just great. It gives a real insight into what is going on..

    What is the Obama camps take on how they will do on Super Tuesday?

  444. AmericanGal, the Obama camp knows they cannot win, but they also know that they have the support of Edwards’ campaign, much as everyone suspects.

    Their goal is to let Hillary, at most, lead them by 100-200 delegates after Feb 5th. They also hope that John edwards can eat a sizeable chunk of delegates to be true kingmaker as they understand now that the only way for them to get nomination is to trail Hillary by slight amount and then set Edwards up as the Coronator of Obama.

    The plan was never to win Cali, NY, NJ, etc. The plan has always been to eat huge chunk of expected wins for Hillary.

    Many also think that since Hillary is so old, she could collapse of exhaustion in the campaign trail. they are looking for any possible paths to the nomination and this is their best bet so far, unless a miracle occurs.

  445. MJS, very interesting. I have heard similar from a Chicago friend about the Rezko stuff. He thought he could keep a lid on it, but if a good national reporter were to actually keep digging and break that puppy wide open is would be very bad indeed.

    My friend is a female attorney in Chicago, BTW, who does mostly defense work. She knows most of the dirt on every crook in the city, though a lot she could never tell. She says he is in it all, deep as deep can be.

  446. MJS, I’m sure the Clintons knew for a while that Ted Kennedy was going to endorse Obama. They’ll do what they need to, if anything.

    One thing they will do is quietly place the video of Obama calling Ted Kennedy old and spineless with a few media outlets. Fox News would love to run that one all day. They love trashing Ted Kennedy.

  447. btw:
    Edwards turning on Obama is an act. Obama and Edwards want Edwards to gain more votes, as they believe the votes that Edwards WILL gain are going to come from hillary and by helping Edwards, Obama will be helping Edwards become the kingmaker.

    In the next debate, expect Obama to challenge hillary to more squabbling and mud throwing as Edwards becomes the enlightened politician once again to better position him for Kingmaker.

    The SC results are very promising for the Obama campaign as they see it as Edwards’ debate performance having scooped Hillary votes.

  448. i like msj post especially on rezko because i know people in chicago too,,and they arent very happy at all..and you are posting the interesting things msj and i like reading them it took me awhile and still am figuring and learning this rezko thing out…your right..deeper than you can imagine is right on t rack..

    and b merryfield too..

  449. H4T, that is not very surprising, but what I think most people didn’t know, is that the only reason Obama is IN campaign 2008 is because of Rezko…for better or for worse.

    And trust me, the way my friend speaks, Obama has been doing stuff that is borderline illegal and shits all over his message of supporting the poor/hopefulness. What he has been doing involves himself and rezko coming to power together. Rezko saw in Obama the same power hungry personality.

  450. I cannot disclose my friend’s name/position in the Obama campaign, but know that he is very close to senior Obama campaign officials and is close to the heads of the Obama campaign…

  451. and btw:

    What Michelle OBama has been saying about not running again is very true. Rezko is a ticking time bomb that the OBamas believe will destroy future prospects. They fear even holding onto the senate seat if REzko is pried to its TRUE depths.

  452. Oh, I have known for some time that Edwards has played spoiler for Obama. You know when I think that deal was struck? When the “lovechild” rumor broke. Draw your own conclusions, but I noticed the change in Edwards toward Obama right after that, and have my theories.

  453. I’m new to this site but I’ve lurked for months. I’m a big hillary supporter and believe she’ll be the nominee. She has flaws like most candidates but I believe she’s the best to win and be a good pres. I think a lot of you need to chill about the msm & pundits. Nobody cares what they think! Obama has gotten positive media for months & he’s still behind. Same goes for Ted K. He’s a decent senator but no one will be swayed by who he supports. This isn’t the 1960s and he no longer has that sway w/ voters.

  454. hillary take s good care of herself ..she is so strong but this is really hard on a person…and her voice,,maybe barbara S can help her with the speeches and so forth because its just like singing…Hillary will have to go on voice rest for a week after winning…but that hot tea lemon and honey does a world of good for it…shes been a workhorse for so long and exhaustion ,i hope she sleeps well ,,when your a hard worker…you sleep only like4 ta 5 hours i know im one of them…when she becomes prez…she kind find that medium to sleep more..

  455. HFT…i lmao…She knows most of the dirt on every crook in the city..lotts of them…lotts…and lotts…my cousins tell me all kinds of its true…

  456. it is URGENT that Hillary not fall into the Obama/Edwards trap on Thursday.

    Obama knows the media will spin the debate positively for him and also just needs Edwards to come out the good guy to eat at Hillary’s white votes with men and some women.

    This is his plan to continue his co-front leader status with Hillary up to the convetion while also garnering Edwards serious delgate-leverage power.

    Hillary must try not only to strike back at Obama, but rope Edwards into the mess as well. But she must, as always, wait for Obama to attack first, as he will. That will be the best strategy. Three muddied politicians is better than two, with one being a clean king-maker!

    and btw, the corrupt dealins of Rezko and the money REzko has made….hasn’t only been for Rezko alone. Obama most likely has gotten cuts of the REzko money, which is what makes the investigation all the more worrisome. OBama is determined to clear all records with Rezko. So…if files of his or senate records, etc…are missing/gone…know that there is valuable rezko info in them.

  457. HillaryforTexas: Pfffffffffffffft! Please.

    Feel free to scoff — seems to be the standard reaction around here when someone expresses an opinion that doesn’t conform to the norm.

    Obama is after the NCLR constituency — which is why he highlighted marching in the rallies while speaking to La Raza. Ted Kennedy represents a ‘safe’ way of signaling to Hispanic activists while remaining relatively under the radar with respect to rank-and-file Dems who do not necessarily share NCLR’s goals. It also opens some doors to donors to the various advocacy groups around the country. Note that Xavier Becerra (CA-31) endorsed Obama today. His district is almost 80% Hispanic and jam-packed with advocacy groups. The goal is not to dominate the Hispanic vote but to keep the delegates close.

  458. mjs.. interesting.. all of us here have figured out link between him and rezko goes fairly deep. my ONLY worry is, has he got any real connection with getting nuclear energy deals in iraq on behalf of rezko. I think hillary campaign is already aware of this connection with rezko. thats what they discussed with edwards. press will work overdrive come late february.

    i would prefer obama to be more viable than edwards at this point of time. reason, edwards is slimy rascal whom I dont trust at all..

  459. exactly HLR.

    + don’t be so sure that Obama’s campaign money is only running low becuz of his amazing spending on legitimate things…because as far as I understand, BUYING endorsers should be considered illegal, yet no one has questioned a few questionable endorsements of Obama.

    Know that this is true: politicians are normal people who are sometimes vain and will take a few smiles, compliments, dollars, and sweet talk with a bow and an endorsement.

  460. Thanks MSJ,
    It gives me hope that someone out there on Team Hillary will dig up more shit involving Rezko and Obama. If he thinks he can get away with winning the nomination without disclosing illegal dealing he is going to screw himself and the entire Democratic Party over. If we don’t find something the Republicans will, trust. If all of this is true and Obama is involved deep in illegal shit than what he is doing now is selfish and may very well ruin his reputation forever. Lets cross our fingers but hope that it doesn’t destroy the Democrats’ chances of ever taking the WH again.

  461. Obama is hoping that the pre-emptive measures he has done to destroy his dirtiest links to Rezko will remain hidden, but don’t be too sure about that.

  462. Hill4Tex, I am sure the admin will notice these comments.
    And I am also equally optimistic that the Hillary Campaign is formulating ways to combat this strategy.

  463. I also strongly suggest HRC use SOTU speech to add more momentum to herself by giving first PUBLIC remarks and criticisms of the speech and the Bush presidency on air.

    That will be the best way to regain some.

  464. MJS, what are the odds, however, that Edwards will gain a substantial number of delegates to use for Obama?

    Also, if Hillary does very well won’t she get a large enough majority so that Obama and Edwards delegates won’t matter?

  465. CJ, it’s just too bad democrats as a whole highly mistrust fox.

    if CNN and MSNBC were doing the same thing, it would be better.

  466. MJS,





  467. Well, I don’t for a minute like the notion of Hillary “holding back” anything during the debates. Same goes for Bill on the stump.
    They only need to do one thing down the stretch, which is be themselves.
    They are fighters of the first order. And I fully expect if Hillary is attacked or tag-teamed in the debate, she will crack the both of them but good.
    And this business about the President being sidelined or taking a lesser role, not sure I buy it, and don’t like it if it’s so.
    This, as Terry McAuliffe likes to say, is the Babe Ruth of politics.
    Can’t keep him on the bench.

  468. AmericanGal, you see, that is the beauty (for Obama) of the Edwards candidacy.

    He is competing for the VERY same voters as Hillary and has strength in Hillary’s weakness among white men.

    Obama’s campaign is now aiming to raise Edwards’ numbers at the cost of HRC.

    His hope is something like this in CAli:


    Hillary: 39%
    Obama: 32%
    Edwards: 29% or so.

    if this replicates itself in each state…EVEN if Hillary wins, Obama will be somewhat on her tail and Edwards will be obvious kingmaker.

    32% + 29% > 39%

    What Obama is trying to prevent is something like:

    56% HRC
    29% BO
    10 % Edwards…

    that is his worst nightmare. But his best hope is for the first.

  469. The AP is running a story on the impact of independent voters on Feb. 5. California, Georgia, New Jersey, Illlinois, Massachusetts and Alabama allow independents to vote.

  470. MJS interesting.. whats Edwards strategy going forward? staying above the fray and trying to be kingmaker? I mean he will not move from single digits to early teens in any of the states IMO.. why is obama campaign so sure he will support them and not hillary? I mean she is far more talented at politics and a streetfighter.. dont they know that? actually she is worse than bill when it comes to streetfights.. heve people forgotten McRae moment? I am still confused why Obama thinks Edwards will be his ally.. any explanation?

  471. skmf,

    what I am discussing here is not negative politics. It’s just politics. If you want to talk about peaceful happy things, then I will keep my information to myself, but if you think I wouldn’t try to help hillary’s campaign or at least her fans get a better understanding of what’s going on here?

    The Obama campaign is dirty. I am pointing out their tactics and suggesting best ways to combat them. Is that a crime?

  472. MJS, what you are describing is likely to happen isn’t it? What are the odds that she will win many states with a 25-30% margin?

  473. skmf12, I am with MJS on this.. she has been with us as long as I have been on this site and she has always been good at passing on info.. all the way from bussing people from IL to IW.. so I trust her..

  474. Glad,

    the obama and edwards’ campaign have from now till feb 5th to make voters take notice of Edwards while not fleeing form the Obama camp.

    Obama, from what I understand, has made some sort of deal with Edwards. Not sure what though. And if I did know it, I would be squealing to the Associated Press by now, but what i do know is what I have been told is the game plan and the assurance that Edwards is supportive of Obama.

  475. I think that alot of what will actually happen is not known. We don’t know exactly how things will play out. Edwards certainly doesn’t seem to be doing better he’s doing worse. Also, it only take a certain number of delegates to win. If Hillary reaches those it’s over for Obama.

  476. Edwards’ 18% in SC is the highest number he’s going to see from here on out. He can stay in the race, but if a guy is not getting any votes, is he still a candidate? Do you think many people are still placing bets on the Green Bay Packers to win the SuperBowl?

  477. See, now, I’d advise a different tactic. No offense MJS, what you write is really really interesting, but we are on an anonymous board here.

    I like reading that everything that I ever suspected about Obama is actually true, but I’d caution anyone who has real world connections with the campaign from adjusting their tactics based on rumors from highly placed officials in the opponent’s campaign.

    The biggest problem that I have with what has been reported to you is this. Logically, it doesn’t make sense to have entered into a land deal with Rezko if he was making money off the shady deals. The reason he had to make the land deal is because he couldn’t afford the house, remember?

    It’s fun to read what you’re saying MJS, really, but I think your friend might be having a little fun with you.

  478. Exactly AmericanGal.

    Obama is optimistic that Hillary can’t win most states by large enough margins to outpace him or outlap him. What he wants, is for Edwards to achieve a good amount of candidates so that they can tag-team and Obama can get the nom.

  479. americangirl.. despite conventional wisdom, independents break towards hillary and not obama in non AA states.. IW was exception at sooooo many levels.. but from NH till date, non AA indies have gone in favour of Hillary

  480. MJS: Obama will be somewhat on her tail and Edwards will be obvious kingmaker.

    Not just Edwards but the superdelegates. I believe that’s why many are jumping on board to bolster the Obama express — jockeying for power irrespective of the outcome. This has very little to do with the voters at this point.

    I don’t think Edwards can get that high of a share nationwide.

  481. I have heard similar from a Chicago friend about the Rezko stuff. He thought he could keep a lid on it, but if a good national reporter were to actually keep digging and break that puppy wide open is would be very bad indeed.

    There are people in Chicago still unhappy with Obama about various things. The group that helped him bump ALL his opponents (including Alice Palmer) off the ballot in 1996 this year refused to endorse him (they were divided between him and HIllary and didn’t endorse at all) and someone ANONYMOUSLY sent Politico some newspaper clippings about the Palmer incident. Of course Palmer and her friends would still be unhappy too.

    Also the tenants in Rezko’s unheated slumlord tenements, whose problems Obama should have known about.

    Also supporters of Ryan who had to drop out of a race with Obama when the Chicago Trib sued to get his divorce papers unsealed (Trib? reporter said Obama’s people put him up to it). Also maybe the other opponent in that same race whose divorce papers also came out….

  482. MJS, you are fine. Just don’t give too much away 🙂

    I know firsthand. Politico called me from something I posted on here under my old name and they used my posts and outed me as the University of Iowa President of Students for Hillary, and that’s not even officially w/ the campaign. They didn’t know I was on her Iowa Hispanic Leadership Council and her Student Leadership Council, which is still pretty unaffiliated. So they, as we know, will use any thing they can.

  483. NYCMax, What i do know is that my friend doesn’t believe I’m a very strong Hillary supporter. Right now, to him, I’m undecided but he has detested Obama ever since he helped the campaign send out racial divisive memos (considering he is white).

    You are right. These could very well be exxagerated/untrue, but more information couldn’t hurt especially since after talking to him and his tone, it seems they are very true. Especially the tactics section.

  484. hi all 🙂 i was out all day but i am catching up on meet the press now. dowd was like ‘caroline kennedy endorsement is huge’ and it just made me laugh. nothing against ms. kennedy at all but do most voters know who she is & will vote on this? come on. i just thought it was funny how out of touch dowd was.
    i’m sure bill knew exactly what he was doing in sc. again i am pretty sure it wasn’t good for obama to have to spend so much time and money there! however, i am (before i let the subject go) VERY curious to see about the myDD poster saying the media intentionally cut off bill’s response to a question. well, more like probably obama oppo people handed them a clip and they edited. anyway, i just want to see the whole clip to know if it’s true.

  485. thanks for the heads up hawk. 😀

    I like going undercover for my girl 😀 and its good to know that hill has a supporter in high up places of the opponent’s camp.

  486. Logically, it doesn’t make sense to have entered into a land deal with Rezko if he was making money off the shady deals. The reason he had to make the land deal is because he couldn’t afford the house, remember?

    Depends on the price of the house and how much he was making off the shady deals. Also, a cash deal is easier to deny or blow off than something involving the title to your house or someone owning your yard; if Rezko wanted to control Obama, power over his house would be a very good hook. There would be a paper trail at the registrar of deeds, for one thing.

  487. Well, if he didn’t know before he does now. I’m sure there are people from his campaign reading this right now. Hopefully they’ll be all abuzz trying to figure out who the mole is.

  488. So can somebody break down, as far as where the polls stand now, the amount of delegates each will recieve if the polls hold true. Then we can compare the different scenarios and see if the Edwards as king maker theory holds true.

  489. OKAY MJS,

    again i apologize if i have you mixed up with mj, so that was why i asked if you were the one that we, no, that i have had the discussions with.
    i am assuming since you didnt answer my question you dont know what i am talking about, so i must have you mixed up, which has happened a number of times…

    so if thats the case i apologize…

    but again, i think that suggestion for hillary to drag edwards in and go after obama, because ‘THREE MUDDLED CANDIDATES IS BETTER THAN TWO’….



  490. Given the MJS assessment, HRC needs to carefully pre-choose language for the Thursday debate. Mike Huckabee is a diffusion master and she would do well to watch him debate. My two cents, “boy, boys, boys” and any an all terminology to denigrate male opponents in an acceptable feminine way should instantly enter into her vocabulary. Another way to go, “this debate reminds me of when Chelsea would have her girlfriends over in Little Rock. I’ll make us all some cocoa after the debate and we can all calm down and discuss how we are going to take on the Republicans.” My point is that assuming she anticipates their co-strategy she has a very strong position to defend herself, and not let it get over the top, which derives from her being female.

  491. A quick question, is it possible or even within the rules for John Edwards to pledge his delegates to Obama? That doesn’t seem very fair to me.

    I’m in California and am hoping Hillary has the contacts and grassroots GOTV mechanisms in place. I think we need to strengthen the coalition of Latinos, Asians, and Gay/Lesbian voters, Obama hasn’t mesmerized them yet. I’m Asian and I can say with certainty that most Asians are turned off by unnecessary charges of racism. I don’t think Obama is going to do well with Asian population here.

  492. MJS, nice read but I think that Edwards numbers notwithstanding SC (anomaly) will plummet. If he is polling under 10% come Feb5, I think it is fair to say that many people will start to question whether she should waste their vote on him as he wouldn’t be viable.


    I don’t think that she should attack first. The media will spin and it will be against her. Stick to issues, be firm but smile and when attacked, reply back on the issues and on the Senator’s record. Don’t get caught up in bickering as voters see this as a turn off.

    I think that Obama should have no problem raising money within the next 3 days, the question remains though, hom much and how fast he is burning through it.

    zI would hope that the Democratic establishment here, where I live in FL continue to make a big issue about disenfranchising over 1mil voters in FL. I think that her win here will get some headlines.

  493. So can somebody break down, as far as where the polls stand now, the amount of delegates each will recieve if the polls hold true.

    To do that you have to project the statewide result (for at-large delegates) and the district-level results (which can vary widely). It’s a lot of work. I will look at the numbers and return w/ a best guess — but it won’t be this evening.

  494. It’s not Edwards so much that will have control (but even 100 delegates is like throwing a MA into the mix) but the superdelegates.

  495. kentucky,

    Obama’s strategy is just him toe-to-toe with Hillary with Edwards above the fray, much like last debate. We DID see an upswing in Edwards’ supporters afterwards.

  496. LJ:

    Edwards is finished accumulating delegates. Seriously. Why are people going to vote for a guy who has finished third every time out in a three-man race? I mean, it’s like voting for Fred Thompson.

    South Carolina was his last hurrah.

  497. NYCMax, Obama campaign and press are frantically seeking out any of the posters on this board. ask Hawk if you dont believe me.. they have been combing EVERYTHING for clues, from donations amounting to 0.44 all the way to domain tracing. Admin of this site is a coveted prize for media :)..

    MJS.. thats a revelation.. :).. I thought you were a girl.

    I think Obama bought rezko’s parking lot to save rezko’s ass.. I dont have precise link, but Bmerryfield can easily explain how and why. The doctor hardly opens his mouth :).. if he did the story will gain more traction..

    I think Obama campaign underestimates Hillary campaign. Hillary played perfect debate role in NH, by being inclusive of Edwards. Edwards immediately shunned her, and that made people see the ganging up part. Now, both Edwards and Obama are extra cautious and they will be. Hillary just needs to include Edwards in every talking point on Obama from now on if she wants to win a debate.

    Oh infact, next debate all she needs to do is stay above fray and play kumbaya moment with Obama and Edwards, just in case her campaign didnt know :). She just needs to tell everyone that obama has pressed wrong button 5 times 🙂 as simpl e as that.

  498. Glad, the Obama campaign has a lot to fear. What with Rezko’s continual investigation and the possible Feb 5th shutout…

    I feel almost bad for giving away all their optimistic secrets 😀

  499. well its called dirty politics..thats for sure…i have friends seen those busses too..on that highway with bo signs on em…

  500. MJS Says: He knows he is inexperienced and he knows he is not ready…but why campaign now?

    For the official story, search for “2010-2012-2016” which was Obama’s original plan: to do another SEnate or Gov race before trying for Pres 2016 at the earliest. This was from a Chicago Tribune profile early last year.

    His stated reasons for moving it up do sound flimsy (especially against Hillary) and Michelle’s thing about “now or never” and losing their freshness is idiotic.




    but we got into mjs a few times, dont you remember he wanted bill clilnton to lie about something, and if they called him on it, he said bill could deny it…
    alot of people got pissed off about that, and there’s been more…
    and i want to know about his friend high up in the obama campaign, who he says he’s turned to hillary, but who is still with the obama campaign right now…
    who he cant mention their name…

    you know i dont scream to get people off this site, never have, you know i have just as much invested in this campaign as the rest of you…

    so give me a break here, i dont like the thought that someone here is a mole, but this has occurred to me before…
    and whats more, if i am wrong, i said it only out of caution for hillary…

  502. yep and more i read and learn i think he has those records locked up some where.hes got em rezko..when land deal was asked..dirty deal…you give me sen records

  503. MJS, I get what you are saying. And my two cents about you is that whether what you say or not is true, it’s still fun. Partly, this site serves to indulge our political spirits.

    That said, I don’t see why it would be hard for her to diffuse BHO, maternally laughing off his attacks as nonsense and bring JRE into the fray. If JRE soils himself, back to plan A.

    I think your point is that she should not allow herself to be brought into the mud. Agreed. But, I think if she owns her experience of being a woman in the debate that there exists a natural set of cultural scripts from which to draw from successfully (e.g., kindly redirecting mother). My guess is that BHO/ JRE are counting on getting her riled up so that she cannot readily switch between mental faculties.

    Psychologically speaking, she should identify where Chelsea is in the audience and look to her often. This will serve to enhance her ability to self-regulate her emotions during the debate by providing a boost of positive emotion.

  504. MJS
    By the way – I have a free phone for the whole of USA for as long as needed. I am at work all day long but if someone wants to come and call from my phone from my house please do so. My email is [email][/email]

  505. i think I will be heading to bed soon 😀

    and kentucky:

    Hill should prepare more so for this debate. BHO sees this as her and his last stand and be sure that he will be even better prepared than last time.

  506. mjs,

    some mj person who is either mjs or mj, if it is not mjs that i’ve discussed this with, i will get down on my knees and apologize, really…

    and now if you tell me no it wasnt you than i will do my begging for forgiveness…

    and if you say yes you are the one, than i would only say to you, you might think about some of the things you suggest, are they beneficial to hillary or not?

  507. i’m not sure whether its me or not…and I don’t feel like navigating through thousands of comments…but:

    what I am doing is trying to give Hill’s camp more options. What I say here will not affect hillary’s perception or coverage as I am not in any way affiliated with Hillary’s campaign, other than being a supporter.

  508. Gladiatorstail at 12:36 am is totally on the money.

    Esp. “She just needs to tell everyone that obama has pressed wrong button 5 times as simpl e as that.”

    Again, I reiterate my point is that her being a female and a motehr is a readily available and difficult to dispute source of delivering a message. For example, hit him on the head with the button press issue and then come back with something like “it reminds me of when Chelsea was a little girl growing up in AK (Feb 5th state) and she had this game and blah, etc. But, you were in the state senate Barack, so . . .

  509. ketbucky..mkt that is the key..Psychologically speaking, she should identify where Chelsea is in the audience and look to her often. This will serve to enhance her ability to self-regulate her emotions during the debate by providing a boost of positive emotion.

    hillary is a streetfighter geez lord i loose my sense if i had to debate her..but your right Chelsea is the factor…emotions showing is human and human being…and she is using them in stump speeches…but for debate is regulate with daughter in audience..your smart kentuc..mkt…great fact

  510. That sounds like a good strategy Kentucky!

    btw skfm, to jog your memory, I am the person who specifically said on the day of Iowa Caucus that around 800-1000 Illinoisers were already IN Iowa and fully prepared to caucus…including my social studies teacher, for pete’s sake!

  511. okay i will let it drop, and i hope we can get past this, i will fight for hillary, and i dont give a damn who i fight with…

    but i may be overly mean, and i apologize for that…

  512. skfm, we all fight in our own ways.
    you may prefer direct and confrontational, but i prefer strategizing and knowing your opponent’s moves before he makes ’em.

    you are right. We all fight for Hillary and we will win.

    now off to bed with me!

  513. 5 times with the nuclear button included..opps omg…..hes so dangerous
    will be in the streets if hes elected…

  514. skmf12 Says:
    January 28th, 2008 at 12:47 am

    It wouldn’t even be a big deal if MJS were an Obama operative. If HRC or her innner circle are taking advice from us, then they are in serious trouble. The usefulness of this site can be summed up as follows:

    1.) Fun place for HRC supporters. Make new friends.
    2.) Encourage donations.
    3.) Provide information (to each other) about HRC and rival campaigns.
    4.) Information for blog writing if you are so inclined.
    5.) Information about writing letters to politicans, news media, etc. to get your individual voice heard.

    Anyone who thinks there is more to this (hi Ben!) should go bowling or something. Or, go bowling with me and I will buy the beer.

  515. geez, someone thinks I’m a trolling Obama supporter? BLECH. SHAME ON YOU SKFM 😀

    The day I vote for Obama is the day my hides turn inside out.

  516. thats why im here to help hillary and voice why she would be the best to run our Country..she knows we are here….she is so smart ..and intellect and vocabulary where i can understand her when she talks issues..she is the only one who puts her words for us who are new to politics .. bo .. je..there vocabulary ..i have a very difficult time understanding them both…ive tried too..i cant vote for them..

  517. MJS Says: 1950dem, it is ALL because of Rezko. Rezko ruined their plans.

    That is a brilliant theory about why Obama would make his move this year — challenging Hillary of all people! — instead of sticking to his 2010-2012-2016 plan! If not Rezko, then maybe there is some other ticking gun, er, smoking bomb getting ready to go off.

    I don’t care where the theory came from, it’s worth investigating.

    Of course maybe he just wanted to bang his spoon till someone gave him a lollipop to shut up, and Hillary has lots of lollipops.

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