A Heck Of A Job

Update: Video of Hillary remarks on Bloomberg news this afternoon posted at end – below.

They want a president who they believe gets up every single day and works for them, that requires a president who is hands-on. Who after you set the goals and give the speeches, you go back to the White House and you start holding people accountable and you want to know what they’ve done today to help the American people.

You’ve got to take on this government, you’ve got to to run this government, you can’t leave it to others.

—————————————–

“Let Them Eat Words” – that appears to be the Obama government style.

Our latter day Mario Antoinette appears to believe in the George W. Bush management style. The Bush and Obama idea is that the job of chief executive is one of cheerleading not accountability. With Obama/Bush a great flowery speech is the beginning and the end of the job.

The Bush management style is exemplified in disaster after disaster. What the Pentagon needs is not cheerleading but leadership. What the Gulf Coast needed when Katrina struck was not cheerleading, not speeches, but a functioning Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). A president not only has to give orders to the bureaucracy but then make sure her orders are being implemented. It’s called follow-up, management, leadership.

Hillary understands America and the world does not need more Bush/Obama management style:

It seems odd that Barack Obama went out of his way in Tuesday night’s Democratic presidential debate to describe his management style in ways that are bound to remind voters of George W. Bush’s above-it-all detachment.

“Being president is not making sure that schedules are being run properly or the paperwork is being shuffled effectively,” Obama said in the Las Vegas debate. “It involves having a vision for where the country needs to go.”

Those sentiments echoed the Illinois senator’s earlier comments to a Nevada newspaper’s editorial board.

I’m not an operating officer,” Obama told the Reno Gazette-Journal. “Some in this debate around experience seem to think the job of the president is to go in and run some bureaucracy. Well, that’s not my job. My job is to set a vision of ‘Here’s where the bureaucracy needs to go.’”

Hillary Rodham Clinton took issue in the debate with Obama’s notion of how a president should operate, seizing an opportunity to portray him as a Democratic Bush. Their differing philosophies will likely play out in many ways as they compete for the party’s nomination.

I think you have to be able to manage and run the bureaucracy – we’ve seen the results of a President who frankly failed at that,” Clinton said, referring to Bush. “He went into office saying he was going to have this kind of Harvard Business School CEO model, where he’d set the tone, he’d set the goals, and then everybody else would have to implement it.”

Voters tend to look for characteristics in a new president that are different from the last one. Look for Clinton to continue pressing the case that, while Obama is running on the hope and promise for change, his self-described management style sounds like more of the same.

Obama does not seem to understand that a speech is part of a process. Part of the job of president is giving speeches. However, the big part of being president is CHIEF EXECUTIVE. This means managing the bureaucracy. A speech is a TOOL with which to manage the bureaucracy. A speech can either initiate action or summarize an action. But a speech is words. What matters is the action.

When John F. Kennedy gave a wonderful speech declaring he wanted a man on the moon in ten years it was a speech he implemented by creating a bureaucracy and making sure NASA carried out his orders. When Harry Truman issued an executive order integrating the armed forces Truman had to make sure the bureaucracy implemented his order. When Lyndon B. Johnson, Dwight Eisenhower and John Kennedy issued orders to enforce civil rights they all had to make sure the bureaucracy followed their orders.

The great Abraham Lincoln gave brilliant and important speeches. But Lincoln struggled for years to try to get the bureaucracy to bend to his will. For years Lincoln struggled with his generals and the federal bureaucracy to implement his ideas. Kings, presidents, prime ministers, corporate cheiftains, tribal leaders all know that one of the first jobs is to master and control the multi-headed Kafka beast called bureaucracy.

Barack Obama does not seem to even understand what the job of president is. David Axelrod needs to get Obama a job description quick. The president is the CHEIF EXECUTIVE of the Executive branch of government. The vice president can attend funerals and give speeches all day, but the President runs the government. Perhaps Obama intends to run with Dick Cheney as Vice President and let him run the day to day government.

Little wonder that the Las Vegas Review-Journal has endorsed Barack Obama. This is the assessment not of his detractors, but of his supporters:

Is Barack Obama, then, the ideal Democratic candidate for president? Hardly. His policy recommendations — when he can be convinced to get any more specific than “I represent change” — are the opposite of “change.” They’re old-line, welfare-state solutions that haven’t spent enough time in the microwave to appear even superficially appetizing.

Sen. Obama is a relatively young man with relatively little of the kind of real-world experience that prepares a candidate to stand firm against urgent advice to, say, bomb some remote population of defenseless civilians to “send a message,” or plunge the economy into a dark night of unforeseen consequences by crippling the free market in the name of “fighting greed.”

The President has to run the government or the government will run him. With Hillary we won’t have that problem. Hillary understands that after she appoints the best qualified people to their jobs she has to make sure they are actually doing their jobs. Hillary understands that if those she hires are not doing the job she expects from them they have to be fired. Obama seems to think that he can traipse around the the country with a thesaurus and ignore the “killer of ideas” – the federal bureaucracy.


The most powerful country in the world needs a functioning government. We no longer need a president who does not know, or pretends not to know, what is going on. We need a president who does not blame the staff but takes personal responsibility.

Barack, You’re doing a heck of a job.

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387 thoughts on “A Heck Of A Job

  1. Congratulations to Hillary’s MI win!! Based on AP’s exit poll, if Obama/Edwards on the ballot, she would still have had a double digits win.

    Clinton 46
    Obama 34
    Edwards 12

    No doubt her support among AA has been dropping considerably, but I am very skeptical about those 70% # from foxnews exit poll. CNN seems to suggest Obama has around 65%… Remember AA make up about 30% of MI voters, it’s hard to believe Clinton would have had such a big win if they went to her by only 23%. So I’m still hopeful she will bounce back a bit among AA community.

    Zogby’s polling is crap. He is a disastrous pollster. He gave Obama a win by 13% in NH, gave McCain a 1 point lead in MI(Romney beat him by 10), even Zogby’s IA poll was a crap.

    I’m relieved that the ‘momentum’, ‘horserace’ play media is deperate hyping up does not seem to have a big impact… The final results of each early state contest pretty much reverted to long term trend.
    Clinton was weak in IA, she lost; She was strong in NH, and withstood the Obama ‘MO’, MI race was pretty much in line with early polling…

    I’m very nervous about NV race. If it’s a primary, Clinton would win handily. I hate caucus system… A bunch of limo liberals + some college kids with nothing to worry can decide a race and drive the media narrative… Hopefully, those Latinos will show up!!!

    Clinton will have until Jan 19th for some good media exposure. The dark moment will last from Jan 19th to Jan 29th if she loses NV…

    IMHO, momentum can swing a couple of points in some races, but if there’s a built-in structural advantage, it will not decide who’s going to be the nominee.

    CA and NH abseteen ballots are under way. FL is always starting the early voting. The more votes Clinton bag in, the better to withstand any media hyped Obamaniacs…

  2. Man something is up when both Matthews and now Arianna Huffington(see her new post) say Hillary swept the floor with Barack and Edwards.
    GO HILL

  3. Bill Clinton attracted 8,000 students in CA, and addtional 3,000 were turned away…

    A new poll comes out of MA showing Clinton maitaining double digits lead there. I believe Patrick is hurting Obama’s chance badly in MA, and he might have actually caused his loss in NH. Think about it, both men share very similar background.. They were coming from elite AA, and ran on a platform of hope in a white-dominant liberal state/primary… Patrick won MA, but his governing style was dismal, and he has not shown any concrete results to the voters…

    I bet those voters in bordering cities such as Manchester are taking notes. It’s a contest between rhetoric and substance, in the end Clinton’s substance won out by a big margin in those bordering cities and helped her withstand Obama’s media hype.

    I predict if Clinton wins NV, it’s over…. But I’m not very optimistic about that caucus… Obama can just whip up a few thousands college kids and win the caucus… It’s completely undemocratic…

  4. http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=e0dae417-eda6-47ec-82ab-1ddf46c4a303

    Survey USA – NC Democratic Primary
    12 JAN – 14 JAN 2008
    609 votes, +/- 4.1%

    Obama 36 (19)
    Clinton 32 (43)
    Edwards 21 (25)

    Obama’s Southern Strategy has had its intended effects.

    “Obama leads by 9 among men. The two are tied among women. Among black voters, Obama leads 3:1. Among white voters, Clinton leads Edwards by 6. Clinton runs strong in Charlotte, where she is up 12. Obama has a double-digit advantage in Raleigh, Southern NC and on the Coast.”

  5. I see today that all the MSM networks are now calling Willard Romney the frontrunner because he leads in the delegate count. As to the fact that Hillary leads in the delegate count ?

    CRICKETS.

  6. Where was Edwards after the debate? I didn’t see him. Also, you can tell that Hillary felt good after her debate. She was the only one left standing to autograph and she was actually talking to the people. Good move to be more personable.

    I dont’ trust the Caucus system either. If they lose the lawsuit, I hope that the court appoints monitors. Also, I hope that the other folks and unions support her. She does have the backing of another union which has 30k voters and i believe that the Teacher’s union will support her.

    On some level, I can’t see the hotel bosses, letting all the waiters, cooks, croupiers, maids all leave at the same time for about 1 hour or 1.5hr to caucus. Who will do their jobs?

  7. Edwards is a spoiler, he’s splitting white votes with Clinton in the South.

    It’s too bad this primary has become a fight based on race in the South.
    Obama will probably win a couple of Southern states with lots of AA voters unless Edwards drops out. I doubt he’ll be competitive in other parts of the nation…

  8. Admin –

    You have a misspelled word here:

    “Barack Obama does not seem to even understand what the job of president is. David Axelrod needs to get Obama a job description quick. The president is the CHEIF EXECUTIVE”

    Good post. I wasn’t around for the operating officer quote. What is that man thinking? I don’t get it.

  9. Posted this on the other page before I realized we’ve moved on .. but I watched Hillary on CNBC and I just could not picture either BHO or JRE in her place. I could not see them answering or interacting in the same way. It was not a speech. She did not answer with neat paragraphs pulled from her stump speech like JRE did last night. As many have said, she’s damn “scary smart” and I’m sure that all those who were watching “get it” that she knows what she is talking about and can do the job starting on Day One.

  10. admin and all, Id like to share this mydd post i wrote with you because it includes important and dynamic quotes from civil rights icon John Lewis on Obama playing the race card. Not one press report covered this explosive charge because he said them on pBS newshour monday night and they dont do transcripts. Being that the dc press corps is too lazy and too “busy’ to listen to an audio and transcribe any words that would dare to defend Hillary, the missed it and its already entered into the wastebasket of ignored important stuff. So, now that its very clear that obama and Axelrod, Gibbs an co have cynically swung th black vote, we still have to respond to these false charges, phony truce or no.
    ===========
    Why Obama, Not Democrats, Won The Race Debate

    by Seymour Glass, Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 12:12:59 PM EST

    Big Tent Democrat has a cheerful, gushy and optimistic post today about how swell it was that in the debate last night, Obama “rose above it all”, put his “Party above Politics” and being the “biggest person in the room” heroically showed what a great sport he was, an actual Democratic ‘statesman’, and an all round good egg.

    This of course followed 10 days of false and outrageous charges from the Obama campaign that their “white” opponents were being racists and using racist “code” to belittle and insult the martyred Martin Luther King and to attack obama and damage his campaign. This effort began immediately after Obama lost to Hillary in New Hampshire when he told and warned us that he would respond to that loss, “Chicago Style”.

    So began 10 days of false charges about Hillary and Bill Clinton dissing Black leaders and black leadership. 10 days of slanders of other good Democrats as racists and for using racist “code”. 10 days of memos to the press and of course, ten days of negative press stories that accused the Clinton campaign of an organized effort to attack Obama along racial lines.

    But polling today shows that these efforts and slanders by Camp Obama have had their intended political effect. It seems black voters nationally have rallied around “the victim” Obama.

    Todays USA Today reports a 39% swing in AA support away from Clinton and to Obama .

    How convenient it is that Obama now rises above it all, as Big Tent says “for the Good of the Party”, just when Senior civil rights leaders began to point out that it was he, not the Clintons, that were cynically playing race card politics over the memory of MLK.

    “It is unfortunate that people have tried to distort what Mrs. Clinton had to say about Dr. King,” “I think there has been a deliberate and systematic attempt by some people in the Obama campaign to really fan the flames about race and to really distort what Senator Clinton said. I understood and I think most right thinking people understood what she said.

    “President and Senator Clinton have a record, a history, a very long history of bringing people together. No right thinking American would ever think that Senator or President Clinton would ever do anything that would use the race card”

    “I must tell you…I’m trying to set the record straight…the Obama camp is doing something else, theyr’e sending out memos to the media trying to suggest that the Clintons are playing the race card.”

    -Rep. John Lewis on News Hour 1/14

    And how good of Obama to “rise above it all” just when it was becoming quite obvious from numerous press reports that some white suburban voters were getting nervous watching obama morph from awesome to Al Sharpton .

    But Big Tent believes Obama changed course on this for the “Good of the Party”….

    Additionally, let me ask, after 10 days of watching slews of Obama supporters saying that they will never vote for “that racist” Clinton even if she is the nominee, how many of them will follow through on that pledge and abandon us if she is the nominee? The real “Bradly effect” of this election may well refer to Bill and not Tom. Many of Bradley 2000 supporters were so angered at Gores ‘outrageous attacks” on his Bradley during that years primaries, they pledged never to come back to support the Dems in November and the did not. Hanging out in lefty circles, i knew plenty who said and did this. Their number surely was enough to cause his loss in Florida and so ensure his defeat Nationally. Did team obama even understand this risk when they used this hard ball Cchicago Style” ploy to win over black voters? Of course they did, but they chose not to care.

    What will be the cost to our Party of these last ten days if Hillary Clinton is our nominee. How many voters have we lost in November because the Obama strategists cynically played race card politics in January to rally AA support? I suggest a helluva lot more than we lost in 2000!

    But of course on Monday, after ten days of battering and damaging the Clintons, Obama announced to an enthralled and compliant media that he had called together to watch him act saintly, that he would ‘rise above it all” and bring peace to this “bickering” and end this “tit for tat” . But he left something out of his call for peace and unity didnt he?

    As columnist Alice Miles notes in the London Times today in a piece titled, “Obama’s detestable dirty tricks”;

    Mr Obama seems determined to cry “race” whenever anyone attacks him. He has been playing the game carefully, admittedly, allowing spokesmen and leaked memos to speak for him, while publicly denying that he wants to stoke up the race issue. For a candidate who seeks to be beyond race, it is a dangerous game, which perhaps is why on Monday he told a rally: “We share the same goals, we are all Democrats, we all believe in civil rights, we all believe in equal rights”, adding that the Clintons “have historically and consistently been on the right side of civil rights issues. I think they care about the African-American community and they care about all Americans and they want to see equal rights and equal justice in this country”. And he could have added, but didn’t: and I do not believe that they are playing the race card, and I believe they are above that – so stop making those claims in my name.

    Even for “the good of the Party”, he never seemed to get around to saying that did he?

    He never got around to saying how unfair it was to twist and completely misrepresent the words of Andrew Cuomo, a man who has spent most of his life as an activist for the homeless and a provider of low income housing, as a racist.

    And on Tuesday you watched him once again blame his staff for any misdeeds and you came away bedazzled by his service ‘to the Party’.

    A Party that now after the actions of he and his campaign, is divided along racial lines for at least the remainder of these Primaries and who knows about the long term damages come November.

    Yeah, Obama, does seem to rise above it ALL.

    But only AFTER he got his 39% swing, not before.

  11. Is it possible that Zogby poll is biased ? I find John and James Zogby are regular contributors on Huff post. James Zogby had a glowing article about Obama a while ago.

  12. Zogby is a Clinton hater from way back.

    I don’t believe any polls. It’s just too easy to skew a sample, given what’s known about demographics, and what they have to do to weight outcomes based on expectations.

  13. Excellent news from Florida… Media is desperate in ignoring this important state, but voters won’t.

    From Sun-Sentinel…

    FORT LAUDERDALE – In what an elections office spokeswoman considered a “decent showing,” more than 3,300 Broward residents voted Monday during the first day of early voting for the Jan. 29 primary.

    The number of people who voted became available Tuesday after results were tallied by the Broward County Supervisor of Elections Office, said spokeswoman Mary Cooney.

    Each day’s results are tallied and made available the following day…

    It looks like Obama camp is determined to lose Florida by a monstrous margin…

    From ‘Tampabay’…

    Obama stirs fight with Florida memo

    Barack Obama doesn’t care what Florida Democrats say on Jan. 29.

    In a memo released Tuesday, he reiterated his long-standing view that their primary votes will be worthless. And he vaguely charged that Hillary Rodham Clinton may violate her pledge not to campaign in Florida by holding events here later this month.

    “We signed a pledge not to campaign in Florida before Feb. 5, and we’re not going to campaign in Florida,” Clinton spokesman Mo Elleithee said. “But it is disappointing that the Obama campaign continues to tell people that their voices don’t count, that they continue to disenfranchise people. Hillary Clinton wants to be president of all 50 states.”

    The Illinois senator’s memo stressed that the Democratic primaries in Michigan and Florida are meaningless because the states defied national party rules forbidding all but a handful of states from holding primary elections earlier than Feb. 5.

    Because Florida set its primary for Jan. 29, and Michigan for Jan. 15, the Democratic National Committee stripped away all the delegates those states would have awarded toward the Democratic nomination.

    What’s more, the Democratic candidates signed a pledge to state Democratic leaders in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada not to do any campaigning in Florida and Michigan except to raise money.

    “Our position and the position of the DNC is clear — neither the Florida nor Michigan primaries are playing any role in deciding the Democratic nominee and we are not campaigning in either state,” said the Obama campaign memo. It also said, “Clinton may be planning to campaign in the state — inquiring about large venues and increased organizing activity — ahead of the Florida primary.”

    Chris Korge, a top Clinton fundraiser, said the campaign is planning two Miami Beach fundraisers on Jan. 27, one at a bowling alley and one at the home of Michael Adler, a top money-raiser for former presidential candidate Joe Biden. But unlike some $25 events that are quasi rallies, the minimum donation to attend these events will be $1,000.

    “Maybe we should send that memo to all the Democratic voters in Florida,” Korge quipped of the Obama e-mail.

    Technically, Florida Democratic votes don’t count because they won’t lead to any delegates. But many observers say Florida Democrats will have significant influence just by voicing the preference of party faithful in America’s biggest battleground state.

    Jen Psaki, spokeswoman for the Obama campaign, said it’s simply a matter of following the primary rules. “We plan to compete vigorously in both Florida and Michigan in the general election.”

  14. clintondem99,

    Zogby is a horrendous pollster. His entire fame came from 2000 election, in which he predicted a tie…

    Other than that, his ‘polls’ are usually quite off. He gave Clinton a ONE point lead in NY senate race… Countless miscalls in this cycle… His NH and MI calls were very very bad… I’ll probably watch the trendline of his tracking poll a bit, but not his absolute #s.

    I am very confident Clinton will have a double digits win if there’s a national primary tomorrow.

    Unfortunately, it is a national primary until Feb 5th. Momentum will play a role in impacting Feb 5th super Tuesday…

  15. The media received its directives from the Obama campaign. I quote:

    embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/01/15/obama-camp-downplays-michigan-primary-results/

    TO: Interested Parties

    FR: The Obama Campaign

    RE: Michigan Democratic Presidential Primary

    Because Michigan violated DNC rules by placing its Presidential Primary on January15th, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee ruled that the Michigan Democratic Party could not use the results of the January 15 Presidential Primary to allocate delegates to the 2008 Democratic National Convention. In other words, no delegates are at stake today in the Michigan Democratic Primary.

    All of the Democratic presidential candidates publicly pledged not to campaign in Michigan, none have visited the state, opened offices, hired staff or communicated with voters through television, mail, phones or otherwise. In addition, four Democratic presidential candidates, Obama, Edwards, Richardson and Biden withdrew their names from the Primary ballot in order to avoid participating in the Michigan Primary. Clinton did not withdraw her name even though she publicly committed to not participate in the Primary. Clinton, Dodd, Gravel and Kucinich are the only candidates on the ballot today. The Obama Campaign is not participating in the Primary and has not instructed supporters in Michigan whether or how to vote.

    Therefore the results of the primary tonight have no bearing on the Democratic nomination contest.

    Florida, whose primary was scheduled for January 29th, is just like Michigan – the DNC applied full sanctions for setting an early primary date and there are no delegates are at stake. As with Michigan, all of the Democratic presidential candidates signed a pledge to not campaign in Florida. Although Senator Obama did not remove his name from the Florida Primary ballot because Florida law did not allow him to do so, Senator Obama is firm in his commitment to neither participate nor campaign in the Florida Primary and its outcome has no bearing on the nomination contest. We raise Florida today because Senator Clinton has scheduled a fundraiser in Florida on Jan. 27th, and there are signs – despite Senator Clinton’s public pledge to the contrary – that she may be planning to campaign in the state – inquiring about large venues and increased organizing activity – ahead of the Florida primary.

    Our position and the position of the DNC is clear – neither the Florida nor Michigan primaries are playing any role in deciding the Democratic nominee and we are not campaigning in either state.

  16. terrondt,

    I don’t know. I think it’s a desperate move by Obama campaign. I think they’re extremely dumb in further infuriating FL primary voters. A 15 points loss may well become a 20 points loss for them in the very end.

    If he ends up as the nominee, how can he possibly win Florida in the end with these stupid stunts?

    I actually hope media plays this up since it will only enhance Florida democratic primary’s stature which is largely ignored by pundits so far.

  17. I used to think Barack Obama was new Jimmy Carter. Both inspirational idealists but like Carter, Obama’s naivity and inexperience risks having a failed presidency.

    But now, I think Obama is the George Bush.

    I want to unite people vs Im a uniter not a divider.
    Bomb Pakistan vs Bomb Iran… or Iraq or Afghanistan or France.
    I let my people do paperwork vs I let my people do the paperwork.
    I represent change vs. I represent change.

    creepy isn’t it?

  18. terrondt,

    You’re right. They did… I remember Obama even took some questions after a fundraising then immediately shut up in order to ‘comply’ with party rule.

    It is comical…

    I want Clinton to completely ditch those stupid ‘pledges’…

  19. Kerry is horrible. He’s been attacking Clinton under the table while hedging his bet on national media. I can’t believe Obama would take this loser…

    I want to donate to Kerry’s opponent …. He needs to retire once and for all…

  20. hwc,

    I believe with the primary drags on, the so-called ‘bounce’ will abate more and more in following states especially after Clinton’s stunning victory in NH.

    The actual results will revert to the mean in the end.

  21. Obama did appear in Tampa.

    blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2007/03/details_on_obam.html

    tampa.about.com/b/2007/04/12/obama-visits-tampa.htm

    http://www.sptimes.com/2007/04/12/Tampabay/A_campaign_fundraiser.shtml

    http://www.sptimes.com/2007/04/16/Hillsborough/Almost_2_000_flock_to.shtml

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gyc2f8GTCx8

    And I quote from the following:

    www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking

    By WILLIAM MARCH and ELAINE SILVESTRINI The Tampa Tribune

    Published: September 30, 2007

    Fundraising Totals | Primary States | Where They Stand

    TAMPA – Barack Obama hinted during a Tampa fundraiser Sunday that if he’s the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, he’ll seat a Florida delegation at the party’s national convention, despite national party sanctions prohibiting it.

    Obama also appeared to violate a pledge he and the other leading candidates took by holding a brief news conference outside the fundraiser. That was less than a day after the pledge took effect Saturday, and Obama is the first Democratic presidential candidate to visit Florida since then.

    Obama and others have pledged not to campaign in Florida until the Jan. 29 primary except for fundraising, which is what he was doing in Tampa.

    But after the fundraiser at the Hyde Park home of Tom and Linda Scarritt, Obama crossed the street to take half a dozen questions from reporters waiting there.

    The pledge covers anything referred to in Democratic National Committee rules as “campaigning,” and those include “holding news conferences.”

    Obama seemed unaware the pledge he signed prohibits news conferences. Asked whether he was violating it, he said, “I was just doing you guys a favor. … If that’s the case, then we won’t do it again.”

    Frank Sanchez, a Tampa Obama supporter who helped organize the fundraiser, said the encounter illustrates the awkward situation the candidates have been put in by the controversy over the state’s Jan. 29 presidential primary.

  22. hwc,

    Can you guys vote absteen in MA?

    There’s a new poll coming from MA on Hillaryhub.

    Clinton 37
    Obama 25
    Edwards 14
    Undecides 12

    The article says…

    Perhaps Deval Patrick should spend more time campaigning in Massachusetts.Residents here disagree with their current governor in the Democratic presidential primary, and dislike the idea of their previous governor winning the general presidential election, according to the latest State House News Poll.

    The scientific survey of 400 Massachusetts adults, conducted right after the New Hampshire primary, found Hillary Clinton holding her lead over Barak Obama among likely Democratic voters here, 37-25 percent. Her lead persists despite vigorous and visible campaigning by Patrick for Obama in other states, which has led to a certain amount of grumbling back home.

    Residents think Patrick is doing a bad job keeping his pledge to bring property taxes under control. About 67 percent rated his performance on property taxes “below average” or “poor.”

    Patrick receives mixed reviews on his first year as governor, with a few percentage points more respondents rating his performance “below average” or “poor” than rated it “above average” or “excellent.”

    I really believe he may have lost the Southern NH for Obama… Well, Patrick may well deliver a MA victory for Clinton in a perverted way…

  23. B Merryfield,

    The evidence is democratically available online. Please use it wherever and however you deem appropriate.

  24. B Merryfield,

    Where will you post these diaries? I posted a comment at Taylor Marsh, but I know you are the one who posts Hot Topics at her website.

  25. I believe with the primary drags on, the so-called ‘bounce’ will abate more and more in following states especially after Clinton’s stunning victory in NH.

    The actual results will revert to the mean in the end.

    I agree. Hillary will settle in somewhere around 40% nationally. The only difference is that Obama will consolidate the “anybody-but-Hillary” vote giving him a permanent bounce from the 25% he had for most of the year up to 30% to 35%.

    The dynamic of the election is now firmly entrenched along racial lines. African Americans will vote for the race candidate, Obama. White and Latino/a voters will vote overwhelmingly for Clinton. Obama needs Edwards to stay in the contest and split the white vote with Clinton in the Republican deep-south states. If that happens, the race candidate Obama can win some primaries on the strength of the African American vote.

  26. You know, who cares about FL? I mean, this just makes Obama look like he thinks he will lose there. Good for Hill.

  27. mj,

    I agree. I can’t believe how dumb they are by playing up Florida. I am sure Clinton campaign and all of us Clinton supporters relish the idea of fighting whether florida is important or not. If the MSM follows suit, well, I’ll be very happy…Ha, ha…

    hwc,
    Can independents vote in MA democratic primary ? Can you guys vote by absteen?

  28. Like I expected, that Zogby poll has been the leading headline on yahoo since morning. All other front page news items will change, but no, not this one. He has after all, being the golden boy that he is, “erased” her lead ! Lookout for more of this sort of stuff leading into Feb 5th. Its time to create the narrative all over again. The race card worked. Now its time to get some momentum from it. They have to pull him out of any perceived hole he is slipping in, come what may.

  29. kostner, I agree with you about Nevada. I’m not optimistic, frankly, because it’s a caucus. I think NH proves a lot of Hillary’s support is hidden, and when people can vote in a primary, that manifests itself. It’s frankly harder for people to stand in public and support Hillary because of the negativity against her.

    BTW, that Seymour Glass post is really sobering; Obama’s tactic clearly worked in the short term as far as rallying AA voters.

  30. hwc,

    I think Clinton’s chance among AA in primary is probably still salvagable to certain extent.

    Look, she creamed Obama+Edwards in MI by 15 points, even in exit poll, she beat Obama by 12 points. I seriously doubt she only attracted 23% among AA community. The result would have been much closer if that’s the real number.

    I’ll be happy if she can get 30-35% among AA community. It’s disheartening that they could label anybody including Clintons as racist or insensitive and it seems to be working, at least for the time being.

  31. It is disheartening. It’s absolutely sad to me. I hate to see the Dem Party break so much on racial grounds. I hope she can win some of those voters back just by talking to them.

  32. mj,

    Well, I wouldn’t worry too much about this. Right now, it’s about win…

    Just imagine if Obama is ahead, he would have torn the Dem Party apart even further based on racial, gender, income grounds…

    Limo liberals + college kids are not going to hijack the party…

  33. You’re right, Kostner. But I never imagined he would use this tactic. It’s been very successful in the short term. But, it’s very destructive for the Party.

  34. OandrewD Says:

    January 16th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
    Man something is up when both Matthews and now Arianna Huffington(see her new post) say Hillary swept the floor with Barack and Edwards.
    GO HILL
    *********************************************
    Rats running from a sinking ship.

    Regarding the AA vote please don’t assume.


  35. I was somewhat taken aback about what he said, that was reported yesterday. I think it’s important that we have a president who understands that you have to run the government.

    We all need to be inspirational and set goals, and I’ve been doing that throughout this campaign. We need to set big goals for our standing in the world, for our economy, to deal with energy and health care and so much else that is really on the minds of the people…

    They want a president who they believe gets up every single day and works for them, that requires a president who is hands-on. Who after you set the goals and give the speeches, you go back to the White House and you start holding people accountable and you want to know what they’ve done today to help the American people.

    You’ve got to take on this government, you’ve got to to run this government, you can’t leave it to others.

  36. Can independents vote in MA democratic primary ? Can you guys vote by absteen?

    Yes. I’m registered as an “undeclared” voter. When I vote in a primary, I simply request a Republican or a Democratic Party ballot. It used to be that I then had to walk down the hall at the polling place and reregister as a “undeclared” voter, but now that is automatic.

    We can vote absentee, but I don’t know the procedure.

  37. carbynew & mj,

    One thing I noticed Rasmussen’s SC poll is that the majority of AA voters (about 80%) still like Clinton. I hope the choice of Obama is just because many AA voters want Obama more, not because they dislike Hillary.

    It’s like many primary voters, especially women have a fav. opinion of both Clinton and Obama, and many still wind up with Hillary in the end.

    There is hope!!

  38. carbynew, not sure if you caught my reply to you in the last thread, but Hillary’s Katrina plan is here (add www) :

    hillaryclinton.com/feature/katrina/

  39. Good thought, Kostner. I’m with you! After all, we have some strong african american supporters right here on this board.

  40. BTW, I’m confident that Deval Patrick hurt Obama in New Hampshire and will hurt him in Massachusetts. Kerry’s endorsement probably hurts Obama in Massachusetts, too. We vote for him only because he’s a Democrat. Kerry has been an invisible Senator and doesn’t enjoy any great groundswell of support in Massachusetts.

  41. hwc,

    I wish it were a closed-up primary… Well I’m too worried though. She won NH, she will likely win MA…

  42. Alot of her organization in sothern new hampshire(where I volunteered) was from MA. She has some strong supporters in MA who know how to do GOTV.

  43. Massachusetts Democratic politics is divided into two camps: the wine drinking “Cambridge/Harvard” liberals and the blue collar old-school beer drinking Democratic machine.

    The beer drinking machine Democrat segment is much, much larger and controls party politics in the state.

  44. hwc,

    Kerry is a disastrous flip-flopper with no core conviction. He will face a strong challenger(The guy who gave a Tsong’s widow(?) a run for her money is going to challenge Kerry) coming into November, I hope you will end up voting against Kerry.

    Kerry is absolutely obsessed with polls… He has no political instincts. It’s just amusing that he would end up endorsing Obama after an unexpected Clinton win in NH. Then he went on National TV on Sunday, stopped short of criticizing Clinton for fear of an eventual Clinton nomination.

    This guy then went on writing some stupid stuff on some obscure blogs to criticize Clinton and drum up Obama.

    I figured Kerry thought Hillary’s support among rank-and-file was soft after Obama’s IA win, but was equally stunned by her NH win. So after receiving a barrage of angry calls from diehard Hillary supporters, he had to back off a bit in public, but continues his bad behavior under the table in order not to further infuritate Clinton supporters.

    He figured he would pick up some support from blogsphere…

    I want this guy to retire badly.

  45. What happened to Obama’s annoying Be a “Democrat for a Day” flyers in NV and FL? did this get no news traction, because it should continue to be pushed to the press.

  46. Ininla, you should know by now that anything that is construed as negative against Obama never garners much media attention.

  47. Admin, the most telling moment yesterday was how BO revealed his tenuous grip on economic matters by drifting into energy efficiency (or something like that), making it obvious that he was rambling and drifting, not knowing where he was going to land but trusting his bullshitting skills to navigate.

    And it so reminded me of that Bush-Gore debate in 2000, I think the last one, where a lady asked Bush how his economic plan was going to help her personally and Bush began talking about international relations and world peace and crap. I still remember that WTF , mystified look on the questioner’s face.

    He has more things common with Bush than even he probably knows. Same kind of message, same management philosophy, same adoring media, same bullshitting skills .. and same vindictive, win-at-all-costs machinery running his show.

  48. kostner, I just checked out taylormarsh.com. The second post down has a really funny line about Kerry. And I loved her post calling him “Adlai’s ghost,” lol.

  49. Paula,

    Kerry is absolutely a joke even among dems. Thanks God, Hillary was unable to win his endorsement …

    I’d love to stay away from him as far as possible…

  50. I called the MI office for the Democrats.
    The lady considered it routine that all MI delegates will count.
    She said, “The DNC runs the primaries; the candidates run the convention.”
    She believes the FL delegates will end up counting as well.
    She is, as I am, a strong supporter of Hillary.

  51. RE Greg Sargent’s TPM post on Hillary hatred:

    I believe there are still quite a few Dems who support Obama or Edwards because they don’t think Hillary can overcome all this venom that’s out there.

    Also, if it’s true Edwards will drop out if he doesn’t win NV, then look for him to endorse Obama. Just a warning …

  52. pulchritude, good diary but couldn’t resist leaving this comment:

    He probably lost his copy of the pledge or his handlers lost track of it. You forgot. Unless someone hands Sen. Obama a piece of paper less than two minutes before he needs it, he’ll lose it. It’s as simple as that.

  53. kostner, I’m ecstatic Kerry didn’t endorse Hillary. Taylor’s Adlai post hits the nail on the head: He blew a very winnable race in ’04, and I still haven’t forgiven him.

  54. Kostner:

    I will vote against John Kerry in every election from now until the time I die. I wrote him a few days ago to let him know.

    I would not be surprised to see a female Democratic candidate go after him in a primary challenge. The revenge of the Clinton supporters is going to be hell on some of these bastards.

  55. admin, a great comment by BHO during the debate came on the matter of his plans for leaving Iraq. If I had closed my eyes (and didn’t know it was a man speaking) I could have sworn I heard Hillary say “the first thing I’m going to do is call in my military chiefs of staff and have them draw up a plan …” (or words to that effect absent having the transcript from last night).

    I repeat: BHO is nothing more than a MIMIC .. which is my new name for him — Mr. Mimic.

  56. tiburones,

    Go to Hillaryhub, there’s a link to Sacbee… Other local coverage as well, you can google…

    Key …

    “Clinton, who spoke for nearly an hour, drew about 7,800 people, mostly students, and 3,500 more were turned away at the door, according to a UC Davis spokesman”

  57. I figured Kerry thought Hillary’s support among rank-and-file was soft after Obama’s IA win, but was equally stunned by her NH win.

    I doubt that Kerry even understands that, without women voters, Democrats can’t win any election, anywhere. I doubt he’s even thought about it.

  58. b merry,

    i inserted a link to the cq politics article on managerial style in order to remind readers of the two minute warning statement he uttered during the debate.

  59. hwc,

    I disagree. I think Kerry is intelligent, but his big flaw is that he trusts every ‘poll’ or ‘election result’ as gospel instead of raw data…

    He is absolutely obsessed with polls. When he saw Clinton’s loss in IA, he just followed those raw data without thinking about the other huge factors resulting in Obama’s win. The neighbour state advantage is HUGE, the caucus system is completely skewed against Clinton etc…

    Basically, he treats every poll as a new ‘bible’… This is exactly why he lost in 2004. I mean, come on, A MA liberal going to OH pretending as a hunter won’t give you a win there, Senator…

  60. hwc,

    Iowa’s history of not electing women is also a huge factor… I am livid about Iowa… What a disastrous state…

  61. Yeah, Kerry’s political instincts are terrible. I only backed him in ’04 because I desperately wanted Bush gone.

  62. “Iowa’s history of not electing women is also a huge factor.”

    What is it, one only two states not to? I think the other is Mississippi.

  63. Paula, u don’t even know half of the story with that Las Vegas journal review. Yesterday BO put the endorsement on his front page website without knowing what exactly the endorsement said. When they found out how degrading it was, his website took it down. As TM said, he’s been punk’d.

  64. link to debate transcript:

    http://www.cfr.org/publication/15274/democratic_debate_transcript_las_vegas.html

    BTW, Obama did not say 2 minutes but 2 seconds.

    “And as I indicated before, my greatest weakness, I think, is when it comes to — I’ll give you a very good example. I ask my staff never to hand me paper until two seconds before I need it, because I will lose it.”

    Also, when Obama was asked the last question “When did you decide to run for president?” Obama replied by saying: “But the most important question was not at whether I could win the presidency, but whether I should.”

    As we recall there are several articles which quote Michelle as saying before Obama decided to run for president she insisted there be a way for them to win. Only after Axelrod convinced them they could raise money did Michelle and Obama agree to run.

  65. I hate those MSNBC rats!
    *********************
    HillaryforTexas Says:

    January 16th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
    carbynew, not sure if you caught my reply to you in the last thread, but Hillary’s Katrina plan is here (add www) :

    hillaryclinton.com/feature/katrina/

    Yes thanks for the link…I will check it out.

  66. Many ignorant people have applauded Mr. Obama’s anti war rhetoric as principled and courageous. The facts do not bear that out.

    In the 107th congress there were 20 house members from Illinois. There were 11 Democrats and 9 Republicans. The roll call shows 8 of the democrats voted against the Iraq war resolution. It was almost 3 to 1.

    The senior senator from Illinois also voted against the resolution.

    I would say not so courageous after all.

  67. Leadership presupposes fusion between inspirational words and concrete action. In Barack it does not exist.

    Question: if the excerpt quoted from the Las Vegas Sun is representative of the full text then would he have not been better off without their endorsement?

    In the future, any mention of this endorsement by the Obama campaign should be tempered with the caveat: ” but be sure to read the bold print . . . .”

  68. pew national poll hillary 46%,obama 31%, and edwards 13%. man, edwards is in bad shape. hang in there johnny. we still need your *ss at least until feb 5th.

  69. BMerry: thanks for that heads up on Edwards. I suspected this might occur prior to February 5, partly because his bargaining chip diminishes after that point. This is important in a particular area I am working on.

  70. Paula, I’m sick of tired of being sick and tired.

    MSNBC, imo has been the biggest hypocrite I’ve seen in a long time. They have been blatantly tapering with an election but because they are in the “fourth estate” they think what they’re doing is alright and just part of being in the media.

    BULLSHIT!!!
    That elitist, sexist, phony DC snob club is always running down blacks, women and the rest of the county that is not D.C and NYC. I’m tried of the fat put downs on women, the dumb jokes, the all white boy frat club aholes that think the rest of the country is a bunch of dumb hicks.

    And lets not forget what station IMUS was on…MSNBC. For that network to not reign in Timmeh and Chris Matthews and others for their blatant sexism, snobbery and other ills…is very telling.

    But their belief they can game the system so they can annoint the next president…is outrageous and dangerous. Goebbel anyone???

    I take my vote seriously and as the mother of two children draft age…I’m not letting anybody marginalize me!

    Chris Matthew should be fired…periodly for his conduct…it been outrageous. I’ve been a long to viewer and i KNOW all about Chris view of the world of how a black president would repair this country image aboard…because he was in the peace core…blah,blah,blah.

    By

  71. “Perhaps Obama intends to run with Dick Cheney as Vice President and let him run the day to day government.”

    Cheney under the first President Bush – highly competent Def Sec in Desert Storm, no stupid regime change.

    Cheney under W. Bush — incompetent, corrupt, ‘regime change’ slimeball.

    Same Cheney, different President. The person at the top makes all the difference.

  72. “pew national poll hillary 46%,obama 31%, and edwards 13%. man, edwards is in bad shape.”

    Edwards should definitely stay in the race. He could benefit from a backlash against Obama’s race-baiting.

    “Nobody’s afraid of Obama.” Exactly. If he posed any threat to the status quo, the ‘powers that be’ would mobilize against him. So far not a peep!

  73. I don’t know why so many people buy the media notion that the remaining Edwards supporters would go Obama. I think Obama took the ABC vote from Edwards long ago. His remaining voters, I believe, are rue blue dems who vote bread and butter issues. I think Hill would get a larger percentage of those voters.

  74. I agree mj. I think people are dead wrong to assume that Edwards voters are anti-Hillary, just because Tweety keeps saying so.

  75. this Undies Sided has still displayed links to my photobucket account. can someone help this person, please.

  76. The GOP is on Obama. Michale Medved, who is Jewish and has his own radio show, he is saying that this link of Obama to Jeremiah Wright is troubling. He said that he should have spoke up when the award was given to Farakkhan as he has stated that he uses his minister as a sounding board on this race for the president, he baptized his daughters etc.

    I happen to agree with him (sorry Taylor) and I don’t think that it is swiftboating. There is a nexxus between Wright and Farakkhan. He also re Medved accompanied Farakkhan when he went to meet Mohammed Kadafi in Libya. If this is true then this is very troubling as MK was directly responsible for the killing of Americans. This to me may be bigger than Rezko.

    Also, he quoted J Wright as saying from the pulpit that, ‘Bill clinton did to us (meaning African Americans) the say thing he did to Monica’ and said this was said from the pulpit. If this is true, then I’m really bothered.

    I am not Jewish and I don’t thinkt hat one has to be to be troubled by this. The fact is he has admitted to seeking counseling from his minister who is directly tied to Minister Farakkhan in more than a casual way. Something stinks here and it is not the fish in Denmark!

  77. mj ,

    I agree with you. I think Edwards’ remaining supporters are a mix bag. Many of them are working class dems who are Clinton’s natural base. However, I have to point out some of them are men who do not necessarily want a competent, ‘pushy’ ‘wife’ in charge. It’s a strange mix…

    Based on this mix, I think they will come down equally to Clinton or Obama. They are the real SWING group…

    If my understanding of the MI exit poll is correct, the original Edwards supporters actually broke slighty more towards Clinton…

    I think Edwards’ existence in the race actually hurts Clinton’s chance in the South …

  78. wowww… his ronald reagan praise actually irks me. I mean he could have given credit to carter, if not bill clinton. Why is he running for democratic presidential candidate again?

  79. Canaan

    If Edwards stays in the race past NV and SC, we run the risk of him getting enough delegates to decide who the nominee will be. Say he ends up with 400 delegates and Hillary has 1900 and Obama 1700, just who do you think he will throw his support behind.

  80. rjk1957,

    I’m pretty sure that’s Edwards’ intention. He knows he has no chance at the point of time, but he wants to be kingmaker…

    Edwards is always a phoney and he wants to play the game…

  81. hillfans, hillary on the nbc nightly news with williams tonite. tivo it. she is upping the national news offensive. feb 5th here we come.

  82. Clinton targets Obama’s management style

    (CNN) — Hillary Clinton is jumping at recent comments from rival Barack Obama during which the Illinois senator seemed to suggest he isn’t exactly a details guy.

    In an interview with Bloomberg Television, the New York Democrat said she was “taken aback” by Obama’s admission that he wouldn’t act like a “Chief Operating Officer” if he was elected president.

    “I think it’s important that we have a president who understands that you have to run the government,” she said.

    Obama told an editorial meeting with the Reno Gazette-Journal Monday that he has a “pretty good sense of my strengths and my weaknesses.”

    “I don’t think there is anybody in this race who can inspire the American people better than I can, and I don’t think there is anybody in this race who can bridge differences … better than I can,” he said. “But I’m not an operating officer. Some in this debate around experience seem to think the job of the president is to go in and run some bureaucracy. Well, that’s not my job. My job is to set a vision of ‘here’s where the bureaucracy needs to go.'”

    Then, at the Democratic debate Tuesday night, Obama seemed to suggest he tends to be disorganized.

    “I ask my staff never to hand me paper until two seconds before I need it, because I will lose it. And my desk in my office doesn’t look good. I’ve got to have somebody around me who is keeping track of that stuff,” said Obama.

    Speaking Wednesday, Clinton said the presidency requires someone who is “hands on.”

    “We all need to be inspirational and set goals, and I’ve been doing that throughout this campaign. We need to set big goals for our standing in the world, for our economy, to deal with energy and health care and so much else that is really on the minds of the people who talk to me as I go in and out of their homes, Peter. That’s what they’re talking to me about,” she said.

    “After you set the goals and you give the speeches, you go back to the White House and you start holding people accountable and you want to know what they’ve done today to help the American people,” added Clinton. “You’ve got to take on this government, you’ve got to run this government, you can’t leave it to others.

  83. Las Vegas Sun, like CNN, writes Hillary is “hands on”.

    http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/jan/16/clinton-clear-winner/

    A defining moment of the debate was when moderator Tim Russert asked Obama about a comment he’d made to the Reno Gazette-Journal. The newspaper reported that Obama acknowledged he doesn’t have the experience to run a bureaucracy, but he said voters weren’t looking for a chief operating officer.

    Clinton responded that there was a difference between the two candidates on this issue, and that you have to be able to manage and run a bureaucracy and hold it accountable every day.

    Indeed, President Bush’s hands-off style of governing, which can be seen notably in the fiascoes in the handling of the Iraq war and Hurricane Katrina, is something the United States can ill afford again. We need proven leadership at the helm, not someone who will need on-the-job training.

  84. I have been thinking about what the best way to advertise in all 22 Super Tuesday states in a cost effective manner. Besides advertising in TV markets of large towns in states that border other ST states. It stands to reason that no one can possibly afford to run TV ads in all 22 states, so how about inertent advertising? I don’t know about the rest of you, but I have seen several Rudy video clip ads when clicking on links to watch news pieces in recent days. Hell flood the internet with online commercials. Email Hillary’s video ads to every registered voter you can find an email address for. I have been getting Obama emails the past few days, so that tells me they bought email subscribers lists from somewhere. Camp hillary should by 100 million email addresses and do the same thing. Saturate the Super Tuesday states with emails and online commercials on local newspapers and Tv stations websites.

  85. kostner Says:

    January 16th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
    NV makes me scary and angry just like IA’s quirky, stupid and manipulative caucus system….

    Do you figure that since it’s really the culinary caucus more than anything else, she’s already sort of giving up on NV? I ask because she is in CA tomorrow, and I have not read anywhere that she was in NV today.

  86. rjk1957: bought email subscribers lists from somewhere.

    Could be the state party. Do you get email from NJ Dems?

  87. Does anybody know why a casino vote is worth 5 times as much as people vote in their own precints? This is scary stuff. If this is the case, gosh, Clinton should just skip this caucus….

    “Do you really believe that all the Democrats understood that they had agreed to give everybody who voted in a casino a vote worth five times as much as people who voted in their own precinct? Did you know that?” Mr. Clinton said in a testy exchange with a television reporter, Mark Matthews of KGO. “What happened is nobody understood what had happened…Now, everybody’s saying, ‘Oh they don’t want us to vote.’ What they really tried to do was to set up a deal where their votes counted five times, maybe even more.”

    Mr. Clinton said the arrangement undercut the basic tenets of American democracy. “This is a one-man, one-vote country,” he said. “Some people in Nevada are old fashioned they think the rules should be the same for everbody and everybody’s vote should count the same.”

  88. mj,

    go to politico…

    Bill Clinton is a master, I really hope he’s playing expectation game here instead of lacking of confidence in this quirky caucus state….

    SPARKS, Nev. (AP) – Bill Clinton urged Nevada voters today to buck labor endorsements for Senator Barack Obama and support his wife in Saturday’s hotly contested presidential caucuses as the only Democratic candidate with the experience necessary to change the country.

    The former president who carried Nevada in two general elections spoke to about 300 people at the YMCA in Sparks this morning.

    He trumpeted Hillary Clinton’s accomplishments while painting Obama as the “establishment” candidate in Nevada who would bring only the, quote, “feeling of change.”

    Obama trailed Clinton in the polls in Nevada by a 2 to 1 margin as recently as November. But a new poll shows Obama, Clinton and John Edwards in a virtual dead heat, thanks in part to Obama’s endorsement from the largest labor union in the state, the 60,000-member Culinary Union.

    Bill Clinton said in his speech in Sparks that he has talked with many of the union’s rank & file who intend to ignore the endorsement and vote for his wife instead of Obama. He says the “the establishment organization” is with Obama but “the insurgents” are with Hillary.

  89. OAndrewD, my understanding is that those special precincts set up on the strip for casino workers will have 5 times the number of delegates awarded to them as the neighborhood precincts.

    So basically, could Hillary potentially win the entire freaking state EXCEPT for the Strip where the CWU is powerful, and have all those votes outweighed by the Strip ones? Becuase they cout for more delegates than the rest of the state combined?

    That is what the lawsuit was protesting – not JUST that they got special treatment by being able to vote at work, but that the party also weighted the delegates in favor of the Strip as well.

    There are some who say that this was done with the understanding that the CWU would NOT endorse anyone, so it would give bigger turnout and still be (reasonably) fair. Some say that the Union had an informal agreement with the Party that this was the deal. Then the CWU local leadership decided to endorse BO in defiance of the National union’s wishes, and without asking or even polling their members. Suddenly it was obvious that they had no intent of letting it be about getting more people to the caucus, and the CWU leadership had made a blatant power grab.

    Me smells a Chicago connection here. Someone needs to check that out. Something stinks.

  90. The plaintiffs argue that the sites allocate a disproportionately high number of delegates to one group of voters. More than 700 out of roughly 10,000 delegates to Nevada’s presidential nominating convention could be selected at the casino caucuses.

    Workers at most casinos on the Strip are organized by the powerful Culinary Workers Union, which has endorsed Senator Clinton’s rival for the nomination, Senator Obama of Illinois.

    Mr. Clinton said the arrangement undercuts the basic tenets of American democracy. “This is a one-man, one-vote country,” he said. “Some people in Nevada are old fashioned. They think the rules should be the same for everbody and everybody’s vote should count the same.”

    The former president rejected suggestions that the litigation was prompted by Mrs. Clinton’s campaign in the wake of the culinary union’s decision to back Mr. Obama. “We had nothing to do with this lawsuit. I read about it in the newspaper,” he said.

    Mr. Clinton turned the tables on Mr. Matthews, whom the former president asserted had taken “an accusatory tone” by claiming a link to Mrs. Clinton’s operation. “Your position is that you think the Culinary Workers votes should count: A — It should be easier for them to vote than anybody else in Nevada that has to work on Saturday. That’s your first position. Second, when they do vote their votes should count five times as much as everybody else. That’s what the teachers have questioned. So if that’s your position, you have it. Get on your television station and say it. … ‘All I care about is making sure that some voters have it easier than others and that when they do vote, when it’s already easier for them, their vote should count five times as much as others.’ That is your position,” Mr. Clinton said. “If you want to take that position, get on the television and take it. Don’t be accusatory with me. I have enough to deal with.”

    The exchange came at an Oakland barbecue restaurant as Mr. Clinton took questions following a forum on the home mortgage crisis.

    At one point during the exchange with the TV reporter, Mayor Ron Dellums tried to physically pull Mr. Clinton away, but the former president held his ground.

  91. I think Bill Clinton’s strategy is a correct one. This is pure B.S. We need to deligitimize the NV caucus. This is outrageous…

  92. hillfans, im not trying to be shallow or cruel but do you guys ever notice huckabee’s wife? she seems much taller than her husband and looks like a tall man.

  93. Ok, I had to look her up. Funny, I’d say she looks like the female version of Mike Huckabee. But I am sure she is a nice person.

  94. Does anybody know why a casino vote is worth 5 times as much as people vote in their own precints?

    Sure. Delegates to the county convention(s) are awarded according to the number of registered Dems in each county. It’s a sliding scale:

    400 — 1 delegate per every 5

    up to:

    4000 — 1 delegate per 50.

    Clark County (LV) is NV’s largest county, expected to contribute something like 7k out of 10k-11k delegates total. It is assigned 1 delegate/50 registered party voters.

    Now, with the extra precincts (9), they decided to treat them as individual counties. Since you have no way of assigning registered voters, the delegate award depends on *turnout*. So, if only 400 voters show up in one casino precinct, they will be worth 1/5th of a delegate, as compared to 1/50th assigned to neighborhood precincts.

    This is my interpretation of the legal complaint, which I did read.

    What this means — all the talk about ‘low turnout’ at special precincts is irrelevant, as far as I’m concerned — it’s the composition that matters.

  95. mj,

    I am very puzzled by it all — esp all the claims that Hillary’s campaign was part and parcel in the design “when she thought it would benefit her.” I don’t think I’ve ever heard any rumors that UNITE-HERE/Culinary would endorse Hillary — it’s always been a “sure bet” for Edwards. In fact, I believe that UNITE-HERE endorsed Edwards in ’04.

  96. “What Obama Does Not Want You To Know”

    HENDERSON, NV.—At a town hall meeting here, Barack Obama is calling for change in how business is done in Washington. Yet later in the day, when he flies to California for a series of fund-raisers and other campaign events, he still refuses to disclose all his fund-raising activities or who is hosting events for him

    Last week, after I and some other reporters raised a fuss, the Obama campaign decided to disclose events held in places they deemed “public” and let a pool reporter in to cover. That is laudable. But not enough. For example, today Obama is going to Pacific Palisades–near Los Angeles–for a high dollar elite donor fund-raising event, and the campaign did not deem it worth to put on his “public schedule.”

    blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/01/sweet_what_obama_does_not_want.html

  97. Isn’t Unite-here a group Obama worked for in IL? I agree. Hill did not expect this endorsement. Se just hoped they would stay neutral after they designed their quirky system.

  98. surely a good judge will rule the non validity of these extra precincts. this is not rocket science but one never knows

  99. By the way, that’s where the “additional 10%” cite comes from. If you only have 400 show up at every special precinct, that’s 9×80 delegates = 720 additional. Since Clark County contributes somewhere around 7k, the casino precincts are the extra 10% everyone refers to.

  100. It is totally unfair to voters. Perhaps if more people stood up and started filing individual suits based on the 10% number. what a mess

  101. This is just horrible. I’m sure all those dailykooks will love this system just like their straw ‘polls’…

  102. found this earlier in a comment section somewhere:

    america ask yourself: were you better off during the clinton years or the bush years? I rest my case

    why people can’t get it .. i mean some people.

    my sister is i believe turning into an obamabot…the hillary hate is everywhere

  103. WOW

    this person has an excellent idea for a Hillary ad:

    i know you must get millions of people offering unsolicited advice, but i had a wonderful idea for an AD to reach the YOUNG voters……
    if you have ever seen the end of Spike Lee’s movie “MALCOM X”, he has a series of wonderful and diverse children in a classroom standing up one after the other and proclaiming “I AM MALCOM X” with this wonderful soaring music in the background and it ends with the last person who is Nelson Mandela proclaiming “i am malcom X”…i think it would be brilliant to put your spin on that with young girls of all ages standing up and proclaiming “i am hillary clinton” one after the other with it ending with Maya Angelou also proclaiming “i am hillary clinton”. then go to black screen and in white lettering saying “for your daughters, sisters, mothers, and you”.

    ——————-

    ^^except I think it should include all people, men, women, black, white, asian, hispanic, etc

    and should end with:

    “I’m Hillary Clinton, and I am running in this campaign, to make everyone, the president of the UNited States. If you elect me as President of the United States, we will all go to the White House to make sure our questions, our concerns, and our needs are answered, addressed, and focused on. We are one, as we are the American people. Let’s elect someone to be president who has shown she is always listening and thinking about the American people.”

  104. This is pretty good. I hope Hillary’s honeymoon with press will last a while, at least after she bags all absteen ballots from key Feb 5th states although I’m not holding my breath…

    Per politico:

    On the Hillary plane

    More from Ken Vogel:

    CLINTON CAMPAIGN PLANE – Hillary Clinton, whose relationship with the media covering her presidential campaign has been rocky, reached out to journalists during the first flight of a plane chartered by the campaign to whisk her and the traveling press corps covering her around the country through the primary.

    Clinton, standing at the front of the plane, and using the public address system before the plane lifted off from Las Vegas to Reno, Nevada, welcomed reporters “to the maiden flight of Hill Force 1.”

    The campaign previously flew reporters on a separate plane. And Clinton, in a send-up of the standard flight attendant spiel, instructed reporters not to use wireless devices “that may be used to transmit a negative story about me” during the flight.

    “Now in a few minutes, I’m going to switch off the fasten seatbelt sign. However, I’ve learned lately that things can get awfully bumpy when you least expect it. So you might want to keep those seatbelts fastened. And in the event of an unexpected drop in poll numbers, this plane will be diverted to New Hampshire.”

    Clinton’s stunt is not unprecedented. In the summer of 1999, then-Texas Gov. George W. Bush welcomed reporters flying on his inaugural campaign flight out of Austin, Texas to his campaign plane, which he called “Great Expectations.”

    Clinton’s version continued: “if you look out to the right, you’ll see an America saddled with tax cuts for the wealthiest and a war without end. If you look out to the left, you’ll see an America with a strong middle class at home and a strong reputation in the world.”

    “Once we reached cruising altitude we’ll be offering in flight entertainment: my stump speech in its many variations. Once again, thank you for joining us on Hill Force 1. We know you have choices when you fly and so we are grateful that you chose the plane with the most experienced candidate. Thank you all. Have a great flight,” she concluded, to applause from the press corps.

  105. HWC

    just read your 2:11 post. Get ready to duck and take cover. I almost had to leave after my first week here when I ‘fessed I was registered as NP- No Party.

  106. LOL at Hillary’s plane humor!

    ADMIN: If you have a contact in the campaign, tell them to FEED THE PRESS CORPS REALLY WELL on the plane!

    I’m serious. It matters. Mitt’s press people were really pissed off about the crappy sandwiches they got on his plane.

  107. Per Politico:

    Eight years ago, in her first campaign for the Senate, Hillary Rodham Clinton was scrambling to put out fires with a troublesome local minority: Jewish voters.

    Now, she’s emerged as the candidate with the bulk of establishment Jewish support as the presidential campaign moves to Nevada, home to Las Vegas and the fastest-growing Jewish community in the country.

    Clinton, whose embrace of the wife of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat in 1999 made the front pages of the New York Post, won her Senate seat despite receiving fewer votes from Jewish voters than the norm for a Democrat, her aides say.

    She spent the next six years winning the trust of the hawkish leadership of New York’s Jewish community.

    Her record, as well as an impressive roster of key endorsements, leaves her well positioned to win the Jewish vote in Nevada’s Jan. 19 caucuses and in the Jewish centers of New York, New Jersey and California on Feb. 5. Sen. Barack Obama has also pressed hard for Jewish support, winning the endorsements of influential Jewish members of Congress.

    But he has been forced to wage, through surrogates, a defense of his record in the face of a viral e-mail smear campaign

  108. dot48,

    Nothing will last forever, and I expect it will last for a couple of days. The media establishment hates her. They give her the respect now because they beat them in NH…

    I will not underestimate their desire to tear her apart…

    I hate those pundits…

  109. Joe Klein doesn’t hate her. I usually hate him. But twice he’s written to remind Clinton, it was she and not her husband, that coined the phrase, “I still believe in a place called Hope”.

  110. Unbelieveably good debate for Hillary in Nevada. She was crowned the winner and the presumptive nominee by Chris Matthews. She was specific on the issues. Hitting the breadbasket hard with her mortgage moratorium including the freezing of mortgage interest rates (except maybe down?). I heard a commentator on POTUS indicate that that amounted to the nationalization of the mortgage industry and was a tactic worthy of Hugo Chavez! Hillary as populist — it wins votes. Count on the media for not understanding the subtlties of the policy and you have a home run right into the heart of Joe Lunchbucket! Gotta keep the Republicans from rebuilding that Reagan coalition!

  111. she could actually lay claim to that phrase to in the campaign. show the empty suit is nothing but coined phrases that he copies and an empty suit to boot.

  112. I agree with Bill, she is the smartest and most qualified candidate for President that we’ve ever seen in our lifetime.

  113. PeteKent,

    I fear the debate won’t matter much in this NV race. It’s a quirky caucus system skewed towards kos crowd… If their straw poll is of any indication, they’re willing to go to hell with Obama/Edwards….

  114. H4T

    I posted an article a few days ago about reporters on Mitt’s campaign plane complaining that they are charged $2000 per person and given only cold sandwiches to eat while campaign staff dined on hot roasted chicken. I had the same suggestion for Hillary’s plane keeping them well fed will keep the press happy

  115. Gosh,

    I can’t believe Kerry is pulling out this stupid stunt for his new golden boy – Obama… This guy is absolutely a clown… He was unable to fight for OH recount, now he’s suddently jumping into this NV fight… I want to puke.

    Senator Kerry blogs his take over the Nevada voting lawsuit over at the Talking Points Memo cafe…

    For too many years, American politics has been divided between two types of people: those who want more people to vote, and those who want fewer people to vote. Just last week, the Bush-packed Supreme Court heard oral arguments about the kind of law we’ve become all too familiar with these last years: an Indiana law putting more roadblocks in the way of people who simply want to vote. (Talk about a not so subtle reminder of why some of us filibustered Sam Alito’s nomination two years ago this month.)

    Well, it’s troubling to me that now we see another kind of effort to keep people from voting in Nevada. But this time, it’s not the Republicans trying to limit the vote, it’s a fight within our own Party.


    Every Democratic Presidential campaign should condemn this effort in a heartbeat. This is just plain and simple a matter of principle not politics; the Party that marched alongside Dr. King and stood up with President Kennedy to open the schoolhouse doors in Alabama needs to be the Party of enfranchisement not disenfranchisement in Nevada this Saturday. Some convictions are just too important to be bent and broken to try and tip a few votes this way or that.

    Here are the details. Last March, the Nevada Democratic Party came together and put together the rules of the caucus. Because of the high number of casino workers in Las Vegas, and because those workers have to work on weekends, the Democrats of Nevada decided to have special, at-large caucus sites in certain select areas (like right on the Vegas Strip) to give those working people a chance to make their voices heard. The Culinary Workers Union, who represents the workers, celebrated the move.

    Suddenly, a mere days before the caucus, we now see a lawsuit to shut down those at-large sites and deny the casino workers their right to vote. Three of the plaintiffs voted for the very plan they’re now trying to block – reasonable people have guessed they’re changing their minds presumably because just a few days ago the Culinary Workers Union endorsed Barack Obama.

    Here’s the bottom line. I understand people gut it out to win on Election Day. But certain tactics make victory pyrrhic – empty – hollow – and it’s not worth winning if you lose what really counts in the process. And you know what, if the Culinary Workers had backed someone besides my choice in this race – Barack Obama – I’d still say it’s right for every candidate to make sure these workers get to vote.

    Whether it’s scrubbing African-Americans from the voting rolls, challenging the registrations of people with Hispanic surnames, or not providing enough voting machines in the neighborhoods of working families, the right-wing has spent years denying people the right to vote in the pursuit of raw political gain. All this time, Democrats have stood up for the rights of all people to cast their votes. We need to remain that kind of Party — voter suppression is wrong, all the time, anywhere.

    Open the caucus sites, and let people vote.

  116. I had to laugh the joke among reporters was that the reportes following Edwards were on a hunger strike, probably because they were not being fed at all.

  117. Even kos crowd is taunting Kerry’s new ‘courage’… Geez, this man needs to eat some more Heiz Kechup before he opens his mouth…

  118. Kostner

    with all due respect, I was on the ground in Iowa. Iowa was a winnable state for Hillary. The delegates are O-16, C-15, E-14. I’ll tell you more, maybe, after Nov 4th.

  119. Kerry is trying to redeem his own shameful failure to fight in 2004 by vicariously fighting Obama’s battles that have nothing to do with it.

    It is a sad, sad spectacle to see. I can’t even get outraged about it, because it is so pitiful in the truest sense of the word.

  120. This, coming from the assh*le who collected funds for GELAC to ensure that “every vote counts” and then transferred the monies to his senate account, is rich.

  121. HillaryforTexas,

    I’m not angry at all. Kerry is just amusing to watch… I have no idea why Obama would want to associate himself with this loser… It’s just odd… I mean Kerry is liked by nobody,,, Even the lefty kos crowd hate this guy…

  122. After Hillary clinches the nomination, I hope all of us Hillfans will start to throw stones at Kerry’s reelection campaign. It could be a fun ride….

  123. Per telegraph… I don’t trust those crowd size stuff, Remember Edwards’ Iowa ‘surge’?? but for what is worth…

    Here’s something you don’t see very often at a Barack Obama event – empty seats. This picture was taken at the convention centre in Henderson, Nevada just after 9am today, when Senator Obama was due to start speaking. By the time he began a few minutes later four or five more of the seats were filled, leaving quite a few still unoccupied. In all about 300 people were at the event.

    To be fair, some people were standing up near the front because they got a better view than if they were seated way back. But it was certainly quite a difference from New Hampshire. At an Obama event in Salem I went to just before last week’s primary there were about 600 in the main auditorium and well over 1,000 in an overflow room.

    What does it mean? Very difficult to know in Nevada, where only 9,000 went to caucus in 2004 and the state has never before played such an early and key role in the primary process. But judging by this event, there isn’t the huge buzz that surrounded Obama in Iowa and New Hampshire.

  124. Tonight on PBS, Mark Shields dropped a bombshell that re-opens the race-baiting garbage while laying the blame right on Hillary’s doorstep. He claims that no less than half a dozen, “Senior democrats”, who are, “unaligned in this campaign”, said
    “They independently volunteered to me that it was the candidate…part of the campaign strategy of the Clinton campaign.”

    Mark Shields has slandered Hillary and the campaign. He is smearing her with anonymous, “Senior Democrats”, who whispered in his ear that the Clinton campaign was “…to make it a black/white campaign going into Feb. 5th.”
    It’s a dirty trick to toss something as incendiary as that out there without having to back it up. I’d like to combat this slander or at least expose Shileld’s anonymous sources to see just who they are and how unaligned.

    I don’t want to re-visit a place we seem to have just left and also don’t want to risk turning over a can of worms, if you know what I mean, but this accusation infuriated me. Part of me says to forget about it and hope it doesn’t become the first installment of round 2 of this mess, but my gut says that BM will jump on this and run with it. Any suggestions

  125. TheRealist, welcome to Chicago politics. You want to bet who those senior Senator’s were. How about Durbin and Kerry?

  126. Oh, these are not even Senators. Christ, if Obama’s support among african americans is so rock solid why does he keep employing Chicago style politics?

  127. Morris was spouting the same crap this morning, I changed the channel. The media is not going to let this die and all the campaigns need to do just what they did last night, stick to the issues.

  128. I mean, what benefit would a white/black divide have for Clinton heading into SC? None. Why would she so actively recruited so many african american supporters if she wanted that? Mark Shields is a real ass for spreading these smears.

  129. rjk1957 Says:

    January 16th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
    Morris was spouting the same crap this morning, I changed the channel. The media is not going to let this die and all the campaigns need to do just what they did last night, stick to the issues.

    Ok, but don’t be naive this is coming from camp Obama.

  130. Terrondt

    I know you have to go to work soon; otherwise I would have waited til late, late at night when the traffic was less to tell you I am very disappointed in you 6:09 comment.

  131. pulchritude Says:

    January 16th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
    Keith Olbermann’s coverage of Hillary this evening is egregiously biased. Has he endorsed Obama?

    So weird. Just weeks ago he liked her.

  132. This has Obama written all over it. Let’s face it – it’s totally illogical to have come from the Clinton camp. The Clintons already lost a lot over this and I’m still irked by the fact that Obama got away with race-baiting without any consequences to him and every disadvantage going to Hillary. But now that Hillary is looking like she’s gaining momentum because of her competence (and no! they can’t have that! ), they dipped into that putrescent cache once more to give Obama a boost. And he IS getting a boost over this.

    I say to hell with it!!! If this is the contest they want then I’d rather have the Clintons attack with indignation and scorn over these muck rakers and their AA collaborators rather than have them defeated through attrition. Let fly!!!

  133. I will be sending tons of money to anyone opposing Kerry in upcoming elections. Same thing to Claire McCaskill and Durbin. Opponents will be getting donations from me in “44” amounts. I plan to send a message.

    You know that old cliche about “hell hath no fury?” That became a cliche for a reason.

  134. HillaryforTexas,

    I’m with you. After Hillary gets the nomination, let’s map out our strategy to derail Kerry… It’s going to be a fun ride. This guy has ZERO conviction, we can make him sweat…

  135. Kostner, I will single handidly find a woman to defeat Kerry in the dem primary if I have to. You can count on that.

  136. http://www.statehousenewspoll.com/

    The scientific survey of 400 Massachusetts adults, conducted right after the New Hampshire primary, found Hillary Clinton holding her lead over Barak Obama among likely Democratic voters here, 37-25 percent. Her lead persists despite vigorous and visible campaigning by Patrick for Obama in other states, which has led to a certain amount of grumbling back home.

    The horse-race numbers among these likely Democrats, where the margin of error was plus or minus 6.2 percent:

    Hillary Clinton 36.7%
    Barak Obama 25.4%
    John Edwards 14.3%
    Dennis Kucinich 1.2%
    None/other 7.1%
    Don’t know 11.2%

  137. TheRealist, I also saw that and was angered. I think we should send an email to the Newshour on this. He also did not acknowledge the role the memo from Obama’s campaign played. David Brooks came to Hillary’s defense reminding the Obama campaign’s role. They had also earlier played the debate clip where Russert got Obama’s admission.

  138. I too, would love a woman running against Kerry.

    It’s time for a woman to represent Massachusetts in the Senate. 🙂

  139. The scientific survey of 400 Massachusetts adults, conducted after the New Hampshire primary, found Hillary Clinton holding her lead over Barack Obama among likely Democratic voters here, 37 to 25 percent. Her lead persists despite vigorous and visible campaigning by Patrick for Obama in other states, which has led to a certain amount of grumbling back home.

    The numbers among these likely Democrats, where the margin of error was plus or minus 6.2 percent:

    Hillary Clinton 36.7 percent
    Barack Obama 25.4 percent
    John Edwards 14.3 percent
    Dennis Kucinich 1.2 percent
    None/other 7.1 percent
    Don’t know 11.2 percent.

  140. HillaryLandRocks Says:

    January 16th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
    find a woman to defeat Kerry in the dem primary if I have to.

    Isn’t that Feb 5th?

    Oh no, is this the year he’s up for re-election? Well, then, I am voting for Ed O’Reilly.

  141. mj,

    I don’t care who’s going to unseat Kerry, I just want to see him sweat , then flip flop, pander…

    If he can’t be derailed in primary, I’ll do everything I can to derail him in general election. He has a VERY credible GOP challenger who just announced his intention to run against Kerry.

    The guy nearly beat Tsong’s widow in a special election this year, I believe.

  142. Sorry Kostner, I want Hillary to be able to pass her agenda, and that’s going to take Dem’s, however if an independent were to enter the race, I’d vote for them.

  143. pulchritude..3 days old?

    Some other candidate and Not sure could go to Hillary… S.C. might be winnable..or close. That would end obama….

  144. i do not know when the polls were published. but they were conducted on the dates specified. because i am concerned with actual data, i post them here for discussion.

  145. Barack & Hillary, it’s white men you ought to worry about
    By REV. FLOYD FLAKE

    Wednesday, January 16th 2008, 4:00 AM

    Be Our Guest

    The deafening din of identity politics has thrown the Democratic presidential nominating process into a tailspin for more than a week. Yes, Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have called a truce for now. But the damage already done, and ongoing sniping by their surrogates, has the potential to cause both candidates to stumble on their long walk to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

    Why? Because the Democratic Party has developed a race and gender problem in recent decades. It’s not just about African-Americans or Latinos on the racial side, or about women on the gender side.

    The race and gender problem facing Democrats is largely about white men. White men have drifted from or have been driven from the party in record numbers since the 1960s. Their absence has left the party hobbled in presidential politics, primarily playing for states on the liberal coasts.

    Our candidates will never win over those white men unless we can, on the one hand, talk candidly and openly about race – without setting off spasms of theatrical finger-pointing after seemingly innocent comments – and, on the other hand, transcend race, by answering Americans’ common concerns, especially on the economy.

    Think about it. If white male Democrats like Mondale, Dukakis, Gore and Kerry have been unable to win white male voters in sufficient numbers, what can we expect when the Democratic contender is either a woman or an African-American?

    So, for the sake of the Democratic Party’s electoral chances and its two historic candidates, two things must occur immediately. One, the racial and gender pitch of the last week must be ratcheted down. No Democrat can win a “racialized” or “genderized” general election. Identity obsession might work in the primaries, but it is off-putting in the general election.

    At the same time, of course, race is real in America. So is gender. Racism and gender bias are serious problems. Democrats have to find a way to talk about these issues in honest language – without either mouthing platitudes or breaking out in hives. To his credit, Obama has transcended typical discussions of race in this campaign so far.

    The second thing we must do to eclipse the “white noise” of the nihilistic identity campaign is raise the volume on a substantive discussion around bread-and-butter economic issues for rich and poor alike. Mortgage misery is impacting homeowners from top to bottom. Middle-class African-American homeowners in Maryland suburbs – who almost always vote Democratic – and wealthy white suburban homeowners in Colorado – who generally vote Republican – might actually be able to coalesce into a unique political alliance to elect the next President.

    A Democratic nominee who speaks to these issues could cancel out Republican appeals on standard issues like taxes, where they have had an historic advantage with white suburbanites since Ronald Reagan. Add the economic fears of foreign investment in American industrial giants and an economy flirting with a recession, and a pro-growth Democrat can forge a coalition that includes white men who have been injured by the economy.

    A debate that keeps returning, in tired old language, to race and gender will ensure that another Republican changes the curtains in the White House.

    Clinton and Obama – not their paid political surrogates or celebrity mouthpieces – must move beyond simply declaring a truce. They must realize that we live in a changing America in which all Americans, not just marginalized minorities and underpaid women, feel threatened.

    This message must go forth – unconstrained by fear, race or gender. Then, and only then, will the “jangling discords of our nation,” as the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. aptly noted, be blended into a potentially winning Democratic symphony.

    Flake, a former U.S. Representative, is senior pastor of the 25,000-member Allen African Methodist Episcopal Church in Jamaica, Queens. He has endorsed Hillary Clinton for President.

  146. S.C There needs to be another poll in S.C. to see how things are…. especially post “racegate”. This is a key state, if HRC can beat obama or get very close, Obama’s campaign will be in tatters if he also lost nevada.

    Nevada: No one has a clue, but I think if HRC has a another big push she will win. HRC needs to win this to pressurize S.C.

    If Obama wins both NV and S.C. – the race is wide open. I find this unlikely. If HRC wins both, she wins, end of. If she wins one, people will look to Florida and Super-Tuesday and it could run until the end.

  147. This is disgusting. Taylor Marsh just came out with the following. Can somebody write a diary on myDD and dailykos… This NV election is rigged, chicago style….

    Culinary Union Intimidating Members to Vote for Obama

    There’s nothing dainty about Las Vegas but things are getting rough.

    Intimidation. Pledges demanded. People to vote for Obama or stay away from the caucus.

    Call this union vs. the casino workers.

    I just did an interview with a Culinary union member who was intimidated while eating lunch in the cafeteria at work. She didn’t want to give her name, but she wanted to tell her story. The connection is rough, but her story tells the tale. It’s below in a podcast:

    Culinary Union pressures members to vote for Obama.

    Pamela over at Democratic Daily posted on a tip she received about the intimidation.

    Jon Ralston talked about it this morning on MSNBC.

    I just got off the phone with a unimpeachable source that there has been more than one confrontation between union reps and members.

    This is not an indictment against unions, especially considering I joined my first union when I was in my teens, totally four eventually. Unions are the backbone of the middle class. But in every good group there lies opportunistic cretins. Obama’s supporters are obviously applying Chicago style politics in Sin City and they’ve got three days to get the job done.

    Meanwhile, you’ve got big shots like John Kerry talking about “let the people vote” doing so within a stacked system titled towards the Culinary union, with many of their members who’d much rather vote for someone other than Obama being intimidated and forced to sign pledge cards. Some will fight back, but most will not. From what I’m hearing, this is getting ugly. It’s the opposite side, with the story actually being “make the people vote for me.”

  148. OBama is disgusting.

    I never thought I’d say this, but this guy barely deserves to breathe, much less “serve the public”.

    What has he done for the public anyways? Everything HAS BEEN AN ACT FOR THIS MOMENT so that he can call himself the first African American President.

    Well you know what? SCREW OBAMA. THE DAY HE EVER BECOMES THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE, IS THE DAY I TURN REPUBLICAN!!!!

  149. mj, Well, I sent an email to the NewsHour saying exactly the same thing. I used to have a high regard for Shields but no longer. What is happening to these once sane minds? May be I overestimated them.

  150. This is the main reason the Culinary Union wanted at large caucus sites in the casinos. What easier way is there to intimidate the rank and file to vote the way they want than having them caucus where they work. I wish some union members would file complaints with the Labor Board, see how fast the Union backs down.

  151. This story needs to be pushed to MSM ASAP!!! This election is a farce, rigged, it’s beyond ridiculous…

    Write to Foxnews,CNN, MSNBC , citing Taylor’s taped conversation…

  152. ^^ I posted it on a the Barackobama website and people basically are saying:

    “well, barack isn’t responsible. Where does it say BARACK is responsible for this??”

    LOL

    this is ridiculous!

    and then they complain when someone from Hillary’s camp says something.

  153. Mark Shields has been openly supporting BO for 6 weeks all over PBS & NPR pundit programs, even the weekly Mark Shields-David Brooks Eriday night wrap-up on NewsHour…to the extent Brooks has come to HRC’s defense several times.

    Mark now is acting the way he has starting looking as he’s aged…like a toad.

  154. All this time, Democrats have stood up for the rights of all people to cast their votes. We need to remain that kind of Party — voter suppression is wrong, all the time, anywhere.

    I must have missed John Kerry’s righteous indignation at suppressing the voters in Michigan and Florida.

  155. ALERT EVERYONE IN THE EDWARDS, KUCINICH, AND CLINTON CAMPAIGNS ABOUT THIS MESS WITH THE CULINARY UNION.

    CONTACT MO ELliETHEE
    CRYSTAL PATTERSON
    JOE TRIPPI
    KUCINICH’S MOTHER SHIP

    ANYONE U CAN!

    DON’T LET BAMBI GET AWAY WITH THIS!

  156. Guys, check out Taylor Marsh. She has audio of a Paris employee talking about the outright voter intimidation by the union that is going on.

    It’s chilling.

  157. I am on hold to the newsroom of the local newspaper. I hope I speak with someone tonight about Taylor Marsh’s audio clip.

  158. Hillary for Texas,
    We’ve already e-mailed and called and called to Claire McCaskill’s office. Email info@claireonline.com or
    go to mccaskill.senate.gov and go to contacts.
    Call: Missouri 1-573-651-0964 St Louis 1-314-367-1364 US Senate 1-202-224-6154

    We worked hard for her in 2006. Believe me, we will remember this when she is up for re-election.

  159. Southern Born,

    I’m with you on Claire McCaskill. I e-mailed, called and faxed a letter letting her know that I would actively oppose her re-election. Do you remember in 2004 she pulled an Obama when she decided to challenge Bob Holden as govenor. I remember having many discussions about Claire “not waiting her turn” since Holden was going for his second term. Well she jumped in the race and the Democrats spent a lot of time, money and good will in that primary that could have gone towards Holden defeating Baby Matt Blunt for govenor. Claire won that primary but lost the general. She created a lot of bad will in the party and many of the power brokers haven’t forgiven her for that. However, women particularly those of us in the legal community came out for her in 2006. Too bad for Claire, she can’t count on that support again. And because of her ego it will be harder for Jay Nixon to defeat Blunt this year – except the Baby has been soooo bad as a gov.

  160. I am so disappointed in Mark Shields. I always respected him on the NewsHour. And nothing was said about Hill’s strong showing on economics in the debate. David Brooks said it was a 2-hour waste of his time. I guess he was dying for Timmie to make sparks fly.

  161. Las Vegas Sun has the story… Gosh, this is so disgusting… I can’t imagine this will benefit Obama in the end… I mean many union members are hispanics, and many of them just adore Hillary Clinton… Now the union is forcing them to stand by Obama… I can assure you there will be more resentment in their families, and relatives, many of them may indeed turn out for Hillary…

    Incident at Paris Las Vegas
    By Michael Mishak · January 16, 2008 · 6:34 PM

    Culinary Union organizers have been working in earnest for the last week to get the word out about the union’s endorsed candidate, Sen. Barack Obama, and to lock down member support in the run-up to Saturday’s caucus.

    But two Culinary members supporting Sen. Hillary Clinton say they watched today as two of those field organizers were overzealous in their efforts as they collected pledge cards for Obama in the break room of a Strip casino. The Clinton campaign quickly tried to paint the incident as part of a broader pattern, though introduced no other evidence.

    After the Sun worked the story for two hours, this much is clear: What exactly happened this afternoon at Paris Las Vegas depends on whom you talk to. To hear Clinton’s campaign and her supporters tell it, the union intimidated a member into caucusing for Obama, demanding that she sign a pledge card — or face exile from the caucus.

    To hear the alleged victim tell it, it was much more of a misunderstanding.

    Marie Angers, a cook at Paris, and her son, Matt DeFalco, a kitchen runner at the resort, told the Sun they saw two Culinary representatives intimidate a coworker, Sylvia Antuna, by telling her that she had to support Obama if she wanted to caucus.

    Both Angers and DeFalco are supporters of Clinton, whose campaign contacted the Sun about this incident separately.

    On top of that, Angers and DeFalco said, the reps handed Antuna an Obama pledge card, telling her she had to sign it to participate in the caucus and that today was the deadline.

    “The lady told all of us: Nobody can go to the caucus unless you’re voting for Obama,” Angers said. “They have no right to do what they did. This is America. You should be able to vote for who you feel like. It doesn’t matter who the union is endorsing. They can try to persuade us but it doesn’t mean people have to vote for them.”

    But Antuna tells a different story. She said she was filling out a voter registration form when the union reps approached her about Obama. When she told them she wasn’t sure about caucusing for him, one rep took her registration form, indeed telling her that she couldn’t participate Saturday if she wasn’t supporting Obama.

    At that point, Antuna said, Angers and DeFalco, who were sitting at a neighboring table, engaged the union rep in a heated discussion. Antuna said she sat silent while both sides swapped words. She doesn’t recall the bit about the pledge cards.

    One key fact: The union reps spoke broken English.

    “It’s possible it was a miscommunication,” Antuna said.

    In fact, Antuna said the Culinary called her later to inform her the union had received her voter registration form, spoken with her supervisor and that she was clear to caucus during her shift on Saturday.

    “I don’t even know what to think,” she said. “This is totally new to me. I’m just glad I can actually go and caucus.”

    Antuna said she’s undecided on a candidate.

    Pilar Weiss, political director of the Culinary, said she would try to find out about the incident.

    “I’m not belittling it,” Weiss said. “I’m taking it seriously, and I’m going to look into It. But we’re conducting training all the time with our staff to be respectful of other opinions. We would never engage in voter intimidation.”

    She said that with just a few days before the caucus, many members have become emotionally attached to Obama and other candidates, which can lead to misunderstandings and miscommunications.

    “We want our members to stick together and support Obama, but our organizers are being trained to know some of our members and their families are participating for other candidates. And we want them to participate,” she said.

  162. perhaps they can get more women to caucus and help hllary out. gotv from women for her to counterattack this fraud.

  163. Re PayPal freezing an account that was supposed to pay for a vote recount in NH…. People have been complaining for years about PayPal freezing accounts: PayPalsucks.com

    No conspiracy required here.

  164. Mark Shields, whom I used to respect, is full of shit. Those “unaligned” Dems are about as unaligned as John Kerry.

    BTW, I never could figure out why the Nevada Culinary Workers Union endorsed Obama, but there’s definitely something going on. As someone mentioned here, the state Dems added the extra precincts assuming the union would be neutral as national urged them to be. Bill has the right to be pissed.

  165. to me the key paragraph in this story is the one where the union member says that the rep took her registration card and told her that she could not caucus if she was not supporting bho. that is the key…that is intimidation!! i don’t care how you slice it. it appears that everyone agrees that this happened. its not a mis undeerstanding!!

  166. Paula, that endorsement was so out of the blue (everyone thought Edwards) that something is fishy. Obama has ZERO union record or credibility. So why?

    I’d bet my ass there is a dirty Chicago connection there. Bank on it.

  167. rjk1957 Says:

    January 16th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
    It is a violation of Federal Election Laws.

    Yeah, but it’s Hillary. If the opposite had been true, it would have been reported everywhere. “Hillary backers intimidate voters”. But, if it’s not Hillary, it’s not news.

  168. rjk1957 Says:
    January 16th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
    Does anyone know the Education Union website that filed the lawsuit. their lawyers need to hear this clicp before the court hearing tomorrow

    nsea-nv.org/ Btw they didn’t file it, they joined in after some individuals filed it. I don’t have names of the individuals but here are NSEA contacts: *If you have additional questions, please contact terry.hickman@nsea-nv.org NSEA Executive Director Terry Hickman lynn.warne@nsea-nv.org” NSEA President Lynn Warne

  169. Taylor Marsh ….

    UPDATE II: After you listen to the tape, think about this. How do the union members get out for the caucus? It’s during working hours so they have to get permission to be let out of their shift. So they have to sign cards, as the woman on the tape said. But according to her, if you don’t sign the pledge card specifically for Obama you can’t go to the caucus. That’s because the company won’t have a record of your intention to caucus. It’s the very definition of coercion.

  170. One thing I keep in mind while trying to understand why seemingly rational people (Mark Shields) are ga-ga over Obama is this:

    They really believe he’s some sort of savior for the Dem Party; it’s about much more than him. He’s a symbol onto which they project their idealistic yearnings.

  171. By telling someone they can not vote unless they vote for a certain canidate is the violation, though it would be hard to prove without a tape of them actually saying it.

  172. texan4hillary Says:

    January 16th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
    i just sent that las vegas sun piece out to all the media networks, shows etc. hope u guys do the same

    Nope. read the story. They spun it for Obama. I don’t see how it will help Hill.

  173. Grandmother, I hear you and do remember but overlooked it, like you, to help Claire win in 2006. She is like Obama.

    Baby Blunt, O-oh. I’m at a loss of words to explain that one.

    Jay Nixon is a local boy and he’ll win here…but..

  174. Just saw this joke on AC 360 and LMAO.

    Hillary telling kid “tell mom and dad to vote for me and I will go and get you some hannah montana videos from my car” LOL.. this lady is awesomely funny!

  175. Southern Born,

    We’ll tag team Claire when she’s up again and get her from both sides of the state! I’m looking to make this state a little more blue in November. A Jay Nixon win would be great. He has a lot of support here in ST.L

  176. mj, I heard it’s very good. Whether it’s good enough to pull off a win with the CWU endorsement going to Obama, I don’t know. I’m not terribly optimistic because I remember how poorly the Iowa caucus turned out.

  177. I never thought I would say this, but the Reps system is much better than the Dems. I do not like the idea of a caucus to begin with, it is bullshit, but the Reps ballots are secret thus eliminating the intimidation factor of letting everyone know who you are voting for.

  178. This is drudging up old (?) news, but I don’t understand why mentioning Obama’s youthful drug use is considered racist. White kids do just as much.

  179. I don’t know about people in NV, but Saturday is my day to do the running around that I could not do during the week. If it were in the evening that might be different ,but 11:00 in the morning?? I am still in line at the grocery store then.

  180. Grandmother,

    Hey, I’m ready to tag team her. Let’s do it! I’d love to see blue around here, as well.

    I live just south of you not west.

    Jay is a good guy. He’s from here. His mama was on the school board when we moved up here years ago.

  181. What Cohen said about O’s pastor’s ties to Farrakhan doesn’t imply O is anti-Semitic. It only questions O’s much-touted JUDGMENT. People sure over-react.

  182. you guys watching oreilly,he’s said something about bo i dont what it was…it will be on in a second,im sure he said bo

  183. This Union thing is messed up. I am all for Unions, but this is terrible. The Media needs to get on BIG TIME. I will email out that story For Sure. This is not a Hillary vs. Barack issue its a human issue.

  184. Thanks 1950
    I am actually glad Hillary did not get their endorsement if this is how they conduct themselves. If the NV press really gets on this, there could be a huge backlash against Obama and I really do not think that it is his fault. I remember reading somewhere a few weeks ago that this Union had been embarrassed in the past when a candidate they endorsed lost and that is why they waited until after IA and NH before announcing their endorsement. The union big wigs are trying to assert themselves as a power to be reckoned with in Nevada political circles at any cost.

  185. Some articles I found pertaining to the Nevada Culinary Union that were interesting….I’m not trying to condemn unions (I am a union member myself) but thought these might be revealing on how this particular one may function and who they are connected with.

    This is from a few years ago, about the Culinary Union and it’s tactics. This was written by the Nevada Journal and describes the union’s practices while trying to organize at the MGM Grand hotel. The union forced workers, particularly inon-English speaking workers, to sign cards in support of the union but used threats and outright lies to coerce them to do so.

    “Where is Justice for the Working People?”

    nj.npri.org/nj98/03/cover_story.htm

    “”It was just very hostile,” Restori said. “If you did not agree with the other side, people no longer spoke. A wonderful place to work has turned into a frenzy—splitting up people, making enemies out of friends.”
    Restori, originally from Pittsburgh, used to be a strong supporter of unions. Her husband was a member of the Steelworkers Union before they moved to Las Vegas. An employee of the MGM since its opening, Restori helped the Culinary Union Local 226 in its first effort to organize the hotel-resort until she realized it was taking advantage of people.
    “Unions are good but not this one,” she said. “My feeling is that the Culinary Union has targeted—I will say—foreign people. They manipulated, tricked and fooled them and took advantage of their lack of knowledge of labor laws, their rights.
    “They were saying, for instance, ‘Sign this card, you’ll get a free turkey. If you don’t sign, we’re going to send you back to Mexico.’ ”

    This one is from 2004 from the Nevada Policy Research Institute. It describes the Culinary Unions merger with UNITE.

    “Culinary’s Sinister New Partner”

    http://www.npri.org/publications/culinarys-sinister-new-partner

    Recent Washington Post Article

    “In Vegas, Politics Comes to the Strip”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/12/AR2008011202834_pf.html

    Culinary officials have been prepping their union’s members on caucus rules — the doors close promptly at noon, and no late attendance, for example — at meetings for months. Although their endorsement of Obama came late, they predict a near-united front for him, adhering to the labor movement’s notion that division weakens a union’s hand, whether in contract bargaining or politics.

    “We believe that everyone has the ability to choose on their own, but normally we all try to stick together,” said Jennifer Grote, 44, who works in food service at the Paris hotel-casino and will serve as a caucus captain on Election Day.

    “You cannot divide union workers,” added Leain Vashon, a bell captain at the Paris.

    Any members who want to oppose their leadership and support another candidate will have to do so in front of their co-workers, wearing their casino-issued work clothes identifying themselves as members of the union.

  186. Culinary Union response to incident written about in Las Vegas Sun newspaper—blaming it on Clinton supporters and basically saying it didn’t happen:

    “The Culinary Union has investigated and says the source of the drama seemed to be about how one changes one’s party registration three days before the caucus. Antuna was a registered independent, and the union reps were talking to her about how she had to be a Democrat to participate on Saturday, Weiss said. Hardly scandalous and certainly not intimidation, she added.Weiss said she suspects the whole incident was drummed up by the enthusiastic Clinton supporters, who got heated when the union reps started pitching Obama.”

  187. AmericanGal — in fairness, NPRI is self-described “free market” think tank.

    That being said, I don’t doubt for a minute that they’re pressuring hard. As I mentioned above, turnout doesn’t matter.

  188. mj — well, what would you expect them to say? Our “overzealous” organizers were twisting arms for Obama, sorry, won’t happen again? *Of course* they’ll pin it on Hillary supporters. I think everyone can read between the lines.

  189. Oh, I get it. Turn out doesn’t matter because they are awarded all those extra delegates, and they will overwhelm the other caucus goers.

  190. Turnout doesn’t matter because:

    if only 400 supporters show up, each is worth 1/5th delegate
    if 4,000 show up, each is worth 1/50th

    both cases = 80 delegates. The union’s goal will be to get at least 400 BO ppl in each location, with nobody else reaching 15%.

  191. If they think that other candidates will be viable, that increases the turnout requirement, of course.

  192. Here’s what I think. With the unions micromanaging, they will have a good idea about how many “I don’t know” and other candidate supporters there are. They will set BO turnout accordingly to keep the competition under 15%. I don’t see any way that BO doesn’t get those extra delegates.

  193. I’m omitting the name (keeping it on file) but here are witnesses supporting the original story in the comment string at http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/early-line/2008/jan/16/incident-paris-las-vegas/#comments
    I was there when this all went down. Your all right. It is disgusting. I believe that the union representatives approached sylvia specifically because she appeared to be vulnerable because of her admittingly low level of knowledge on the way the caucus will work. She was sitting with us. Once I realized what was going on, I looked over at the women who represtented the union and said, Are You Out Of Your Mind??? My mother and I couldnt believe it! The union rep had told her that she had to sign a pledge card today that said she would vote for Obama or she couldnt caucus on Saturday. Sylvia said she didnt know if she was going to vote for Obama and the union rep said “Then you can’t attend the caucus”. And Sylvia believed her! She wasnt going to vote anymore. There is no doubt in my mind after witnessing this and being involved in it that this is not the only incident. Afterwards the union representative showed no remorse for it and never backed down from it until she was told we were going to report her. They have been in and out of the employee cafeteria harrassing people who are on their lunch breaks since the endorsement was announced. Its happening all over the city, no doubts about it. And Something definately ought to be done! My mother and I are are willing to share our story with media outlets if anyone can get us in touch with them…

    Of course this might not rise to the level of deliberate, threatening ‘intimidation’, just confusion. But it shows how ‘caucus at work’ can easily bring pressure of work/union hierachy to bear on confused workers and distort their free choice. It’s an inbred, unhealthy situation….

  194. the new row from bo’s camp:
    Says Joe Lowery: Obama’s black doubters have a `slave mentality’
    Wednesday, January 16, 2008, 04:09 PM

    The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

    Just when you thought supporters of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton had gotten past this race thing.

    In an address to the Hungry Club at Butler Street YMCA in downtown Atlanta, the Rev. Joseph Lowery re-stoked the fires on Wednesday when he told the largely African-American audience that “a slave mentality” was fueling black doubts about Obama’s chances of capturing the White House.

    The report comes from our AJC colleague, John Hollis, who was at the event.

    “No matter how much education they have, they never graduated from the slave mentality,” Lowery said of those who have advised Obama to wait, or have doubted his ability to compete in a general election.

    “The slavery mentality compels us to say, `We can’t win, we can’t do,'” said Lowery, an avid Obama supporter and a co-founder of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.

    Strong words, when you consider that they include people like U.S. Rep. John Lewis or former Atlanta mayor Andrew Young.
    …………
    http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/shared- blogs/ajc/politicalinsider/entries/2008 01/16/says_joe_lowery_obamas_black_d.htm l

  195. Per MyDD…

    The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

    Just when you thought supporters of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton had gotten past this race thing.

    In an address to the Hungry Club at Butler Street YMCA in downtown Atlanta, the Rev. Joseph Lowery re-stoked the fires on Wednesday when he told the largely African-American audience that “a slave mentality” was fueling black doubts about Obama’s chances of capturing the White House.

    The report comes from our AJC colleague, John Hollis, who was at the event.

    “No matter how much education they have, they never graduated from the slave mentality,” Lowery said of those who have advised Obama to wait, or have doubted his ability to compete in a general election.

    “The slavery mentality compels us to say, `We can’t win, we can’t do,'” said Lowery, an avid Obama supporter and a co-founder of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.

    Strong words, when you consider that they include people like U.S. Rep. John Lewis or former Atlanta mayor Andrew Young.

  196. kostner, i am tired of this race baiting. i think if hill doesnt win nomination, dems should lose this election and sit on sidelines and rehash themselves as to what they stand for.

  197. This whole race issue was to sully Hill’s win in NH. I think they largely were able to hamper the momentum she should have garnered after her historic win in NH, but come on now, this is overkill. This is working for the guilt vote.

  198. This whole race issue was to sully Hill’s win in NH. I think they largely were able to hamper the momentum she should have garnered after her historic win in NH, but come on now, this is overkill. This is working for the guilt vote.

  199. “This is drudging up old (?) news, but I don’t understand why mentioning Obama’s youthful drug use is considered racist. White kids do just as much.”

    Because vetting Obama is racism, that’s why. If he becomes President, we have to make sure Putin and the European Union get the memo to treat him with kid gloves.

  200. Sorry I got back late from a new Hill HQ and fell asleep.

    You wanted to now about life on the ground? I’m in Clark County — sw Las Vegas actually.

    If this were a primary, I think Hill would win big. But so many of her supporters cannot vote from Jews to the elderly to workers. I will forward your posts about the intimidation — I spent part of today trying to ensure that Clinton people are at the special precincts to stop intimidation.

    The problem with the card signing incident is that you don’t have to sign any card to get into the caucus, much less an Obama card. You can register at the door and, in the special precincts, you must prove that you’re a shift worker within 2.5 miles of that precinct. So what were they passing out to the workers?

  201. Freckles, I understand jewish voters dilemma, but their vote could be decisive, same with the elderly, why do you sense they will not caucus?

  202. gladiatorstail Says:

    January 17th, 2008 at 2:40 am
    freckles, why wouldnt they caucus? can you elaborate?

    With jewish voters, they have sabbath saturday, but I was hoping the rabbi’s would tell them to vote.

  203. i seriously dont see why they cant talk about obama’s past drug use. i mean, comeon this guy is on record saying he did cocaine and has gone back and forth on age at which he stopped it. in addition, he goes around schools bragging about it. also, media should be reminded that bush drug issue was a big deal in 2000 election.

  204. This is sad. Freckles is telling us that Hillary has by far the most support but that her supporters are yet again held back by the caucus system.

  205. u can now use the cool call tool for nv i got it in an email tonight. whythe dnc has put up with cacuses i have no idea. please keep giving ground reports on the nv caucueses.

  206. Erica Jong

    It Was Eight Years Ago Today (But It Seems Like Eighty)

    Do we need another president learning on the job? I think not — even if his heart, unlike Dubya’s, is in the right place. Give Hillary a break. She has always come through for her constituents. Isn’t that what we need to know more than eloquence, promises and hope?

    Her article is too long to post, here is the link:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/erica-jong/it-was-eight-years-ago-to_b_81824.html

  207. mj thats not good. i mean their priest should cut them some slack and have prayers like maybe in the evenings or something.

    and what about elderly? i hear its a warm day.

  208. gladiatorstail Says:

    January 17th, 2008 at 2:54 am
    mj thats not good. i mean their priest should cut them some slack and have prayers like maybe in the evenings or something.

    Rabbi not priest, but agreed, this is too important to miss.

  209. As for the rest of the county, there is quite a determination to vote in the caucus. There isn’t a big Obama groundswell in my ‘hood as far as I can tell. But I’m not in the university section or the traditional AA section.

    The union in question is only 40% hispanic. My feeling is that left alone, they would be very heavily for Hill.

    The question is how many people will show up for this adventure. The average last time was 8-9.
    At a meeting, I asked the precinct capt and supervisor and workers to estimate how many bodies they thought would show up. In order of highest on the totem pole: it was 40, 57, 125, 150.
    My vote: 80 Of course, that would mean 10 times as many as last time. I will report on Saturday afternoon if any of us had a clue. I’m fairly sure that we will well outdraw the Repubs who seem very demoralized. Each precinct in my area is fully staffed — 4000 people attended the caucus training.

    By tomorrow night I will have a good idea how many HRC people are planning to attend from my section of the precinct. I shall report.

    Hillary is seen very favorably here or you have to explain that Hillary didn’t murder Vince Foster (a supporter believed this) she didn’t steal the furniture from the White House and she isn’t cold, demanding, and impossible to get along with.

    What else would you like to know?

  210. Hillary is seen very favorably here or you have to explain that Hillary didn’t murder Vince Foster (a supporter believed this) she didn’t steal the furniture from the White House and she isn’t cold, demanding, and impossible to get along with.

    Which is more common, favorable or vince foster?

  211. kostner Says:
    January 17th, 2008 at 2:10 am
    Per MyDD…
    The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
    ….
    “The slavery mentality compels us to say, `We can’t win, we can’t do,’” said Lowery, an avid Obama supporter and a co-futhern Christian Leadership Conference.

    The whole thing sounds like what Michelle Obama said to Vanity Fair weeks ago. I bet no one called it racism then.

  212. If my recollection is accurate, then Barack agreed that it was wrong to use the race card, and that he would take appropriate steps to ensure that his campaign and supporters did not do so in the future.

    Today, Reverend Lowery made a statent which is false, slanderous and racist on its face. His motive was to promote Obama’s candidacy. Thus, the statement is within the scope of what Barack agreed to oppose.

    If he fails to repudiate the statement voters may fairly conclude that one or more of the following: i) he is not the figure who transcends race, ii) his word is not good, iii) he lacks moral courage, and/or iv) his philosopher king style of management does not include accountability.

    That each candidate would take affirmative
    steps to control its campaigns and supporters,

    Third, when the moderator presented the SC smoking gun memo and asked Barack if he regretted it, he said yes in the past and in the future, and iv) fourth, in furtherance of that agreement Hillary acknowleged that the action by one of her major supporters re. Barack’s prior drug use was wrong and not in keeping with their agreement.

    Comes now one of Barack’s major supporters accusing African Americans who have misgivings about his ability to capture the White House as harboring a slave mentality. This is a false, slanderous and racist statement. It is made by a strong supporter of Obama. What will he do?

    He must repudiate this statement. If he fails to do so, as Senator Clinton did then this will damage him for three reasons:

    pursuant to that agreementSenator Clinton acknowledged that a reference by one of her supporters to Barack’s prior drug use was wrong, and iii) when Barack himself was confronted with the smoking gun memo from his South Carolina

    At the beginning of the Las Vegas debate Tuesday night, the moderator asked about the racial dynamics which have been injected into the campaign.

    Hillary reported that she and Barack had reached an agreement that this wrong and they that this was not

    The world is watching how Barack handles the racist comments of supporter Lowery. He has an obligation to repudiate Lowery based on the commitment he made to Senator Clinton and to the public that he neither he, his campaign nor his supporters to publicly repudiate the comments by his supporter Lowery.

    1. first, Barack made a solemn promise to end the racial bickering. That promise is binding on him, his campaign and his supporters.

    2. second, Barack’s failure to to do what he has promised reinforces the impression that he lacks the moral courage to be president.

  213. the issue of many jewish voters being disenfranchised has to do with honoring the sabbath. more conservative jews are not to burn lights, do labor, drive cars etc, it si the lord’s day of rest. most jews however do not honor the sabbath like this these days. reformed and convservative jews drive etc onthe sabbath and i think will caucus. it is the orthodox and hasidim who are most likely to not drive , or do any labor on the sabbath. so somejews surely will caucus for hillary, but many will be disenfracnhised bc the dem party lacked the senitivty and decided to host it on the sabbath. at least in sc its a primary and absentee balloting is allowed.

  214. Sorry about the above/ It happens sometimes when you edit and fail to delete prior drafts. The first three paragraphs say what i intended which is that Obama needs to address it because the world is watching.

  215. I think if Hill wins NV, she should start campaigning for super tuesday and do some campaigning through surrogates in FL instead of wasting money in SC> what dyall think?

  216. Texan4Hillary: that is amazing. It sounds like this caucus system is flawed in many ways. It seems whereever there is a causcus system in place, as opposed to a primary, there is a significant potential for abuse.

  217. flawed as it is i still think she has the edge. the clintonshave deep nv ties-bill carried it 2 times, vetoed the yuca mt law etc.. nv elects women statewide often, unlike iowa. she has huge dem support there. latinos are for her. the clinton camp there tells me they will have clinton poll watchers to make sure clinton caucusers are not harrassed. they really need to do this. after tm’s story tonight the clinton camp i would think would lamost have to make sure the polls are covered by her poll s watchers . and we dont know what the court will do-i bet nothing.

  218. Glad-that could be a smart play in view of what the Obama campaign has done to poison the well in South Carolina.

    Time and money are now critical, and other venues may offer a better return on investment.

  219. yeah.. and if possible, some random surrogate 527 should go and advertise/campaign on her behalf in FL too. we cant let that get away. if she wins FL+NV, she will have money in her hand for super tuesday. Obama campaign organizers have already started working here in my home state VA. she she better mop up those super tuesday states by conserving some funds. IMO she only has around 30M in hand right now.

  220. texan-I concur. If the strip is only 6% then whatever happens there may not be outcome determinative. Also, I have read that Harry Reid’s who is state chairman knows the state electorate situation well and can deliver.

    The election process is really a freak show–Halpein is right about that. If it were only as simple as having the best candidate and letting the people decide, it would be fine.

    Instead, its all this other shit like media bias, clueless pollsters, archane caucus rules, Chicago nullification tactics, racial card, DNC rulings, etc.–which subvert the democratic process.

  221. I may have been wrong about the thing quoted from Atlanta Constitution sounding like MIchelle Obama’s interview in Vanity Fair. It may have been her MSNBC interview.

    http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:SS3edi5pxscJ:www.huffingtonpost.com/carl-jeffers/obama-08-the-reverse-r_b_76155.html%3Fload%3D1%26page%3D2+%22Michelle+Obama%22+slavery&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&client=opera
    At one point, Michelle Obama said that “Black America will wake up and get it” in an MSNBC interview. ….Michelle Obama seemed intent on linking the lack of overwhelming support for her husband among Black Americans with vestiges left from slavery and decades of racial injustice.

  222. TV ALERT:

    http://www.bet.com/OnTV/ontv_betnewsspecial_hillaryclinton.htm?wbc_purpose=Basic&WBCMODE=PresentationUnpublished

    Hilary Clinton & the Black Vote

    Updated Jan. 16, 2008 — BET News profiles the woman who once stood before America in the East Wing and is now looking to lead America in the West Wing: Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton. Tune in Sunday at 12:30 p.m. and 10:30 (ET/PT) for a revealing half-hour sit-down interview. We gain insight into the woman on a journey to become the first female Commander–in-Chief.

    Senator Hillary Clinton’s campaign ace is husband Bill Clinton. His presidency endeared them both to African Americans. Will her husband’s influence and connection with the Black community be enough to earn her the Black vote and give her a win?

    Clinton talks about her rivals, her passions, and what sets her apart. The path from First Lady to first female in the Oval Office brings BET’s Jeff Johnson face to face to probe is Black America on her agenda?
    Don’t miss the encores of “What’s In It for Us: Hilary Clinton & the Black Vote,” airing Sunday at 12:30 p.m. and 10:30 p.m. (ET/PT).

    VIDEO: http://www.bet.com/onblast/default.html?chan=4&id=1479&i=15&sub=&itype=e

  223. Caucuses have problems, but no hanging chads. Maybe the best thing would be something in between, where you can be sure your ballot got counted (and the count is correct) without making people go to a certain place at a certain time (and risk intimidation).

    I think vote by mail might be good (as is done in some western states already). But it needs a tracking number and transparent posting, so that you can look up your tracking number on the web and make sure your ballot was counted right — and raise bloody hell if it wasn’t.

  224. 1950Democrat: ensuring that the vote you cast gets counted is important, and no one put a finer point on that than good old Uncle Joe, aka Josef Stalin when he said:

    “It doesn’t matter who votes. What matters is who counts the votes.”

  225. Kostner, et al.

    I think the tide is turning for Hillary. Obama made a major gaffe when he essentially conceded he won’t run the government (the weakness question in the debate). People expect more from an energetic young man than ideas. They want action and a sense that he is ready to roll up his sleeves and do the hard work. With the issue turning toward the economy Obama’s gauzy mesage will have less appeal.

    I think Obama’s support will crack. The first sign will be a narrow Edwards win in Nevada, as Obama’s voters move first to the also-ran Breck boy and then move to Hillary in time for SC which she will win. At that point the nomination will be hers.

    Pete Kent

  226. Precisely! I thought it was brilliant on the part of Hill’s campaign to pick up on that statement and draw the sharp contract between the fluff of Obama’s campaign and the leadership positioning of Hillary’s. People do have doubt about Barack’s ability to lead and be effective agent for change. That is his achilles heel.

    Watch for a spectacular reaction by his campaign today. You will see they will move this off the issues and his competence to something much more divisive. Just as they played the race card throguh surrogates after NH.

  227. Of course nothing can be done about this soon. But it’s odd, we have two extremes: caucuses where people have to stand up in view of everyone, vs balloting that is so secret that you never know whether it got counted right, or counted at all.

  228. It is shameful that Obama compares himself with Reagan. I still remember Reagan’s announcement of his candidacy in Philadelphia Missisipi.Doen’t Obama know that? If I may quote from Wikipedia:

    Philadelphia is most famous as the site of the murder of three civil rights workers in 1964. This incident later became the basis for the movie Mississippi Burning. Eighteen persons, including the sheriff and deputy sheriff, were charged by the U.S. Department of Justice for violating the civil rights of the three dead men; 7 were convicted. No legal action was taken on the actual murders by the state of Mississippi until 2005, when one of the participants, Edgar Ray Killen, was convicted on three counts of manslaughter (one for each of the dead men).

    In 1980 Ronald Reagan kicked off his general campaign for president of the United States in Philadelphia, announcing at the annual county fair, “I believe in states’ rights … [I] believe we have distorted the balance of our government today by giving powers that were never intended to be given in the Constitution to that federal establishment.” He went on to promise to “restore to states and local governments the power that properly belongs to them”.

    Some thought Reagan’s speech marked the continuation of the successful Republican “Southern strategy”; this was supposedly evidence of Reagan’s libertarian belief in federalism and a greater role for states in determining their own policies. However, given the history of Philadelphia, and Reagan’s use of the words “states’ rights”, often interpreted as a desire to return to pre-Civil War laws regarding segregation, many felt that Reagan was at least insensitive to the concerns of blacks, or that he even was using this location and these words as a cynical appeal to the white racist vote.[1][2]

  229. clintondem, Obama has no historic relevance to american histrory. He wasnt a traditional african american, else he would NEVER have said he derived inspiration from ronald reagan. I dont even think he is a traditional democrat fwiw.

  230. gladiator.. I am surprised and shocked that not many democrats have come forward and commented about this. I feel it is outrageous that he disses Bill at the same time.

  231. On the lighter side morning joke is complaining that BO is stealing his lines and using them in his campaign. He was referring to Nancy Carrigan joke and Reagan comparision.

  232. CD99, I saw that on MJ. In a subtle way, some in the MSM are getting it. Yesterday morning, David Shuster referred to BHO as a “shape shifter”. I call him Mr. Mimic, which is pretty much what Joe was saying this morning.

    But then we get smirking Mika who is a very poor substitute for a straight man. Would she have that job if she had a different name/parents? I doubt it. She adds nothing. I take that bad, she makes Joe look like a brain surgeon compared to her and Willie.

  233. Morning all…you know we all discuss the bias of the pundits and newscasters on TV broadcasts but have any of you listened to radio lately? I keep the radio on at night and ABC radio news is blatently pro-Obama. Each newscast on the hour and half-hour features some description of how Obama is doing well or gaining support, often with coinciding negative blurb about Hillary. On the night of that dinner in NH they ran blurbs all night how Hillary was “booed” (and the newscaster kept saying that word with, to my ears, obvious gleefulness). Last night, each broadcast was punctuated with how Obama is gaining black and mainstream support and how this hurts Hillary. Night after night it’s the same thing..a pro-Obama piece, Obama giving a quote, some bit of negative Hillary news. Maybe they don’t think anyone is paying attention and they won’t get caught on it. I’m not exaggerating. It’s really obvious….

  234. For those who are asking, the ground rules for this election say you cannot mention BHO’s use of drugs as a teenager and as a young man unless you are a Republican. Republicans are exempt from the charge of racism. LOL

  235. B Merry… I love that term “Shape shifter”. May be we need to tell people that they are taking him too seriously. He just does not mean what he says. He is Just a caricature. By attcking his positions we make him look serious where as we need to tell people what a joke he is.

  236. Sherm, This is reported in today’s Sun-Times:

    Obama drug use raised
    TOWN HALL MEETING | Ignores reference, calls for focus on treatment, not arrest

    January 17, 2008
    LYNN SWEET blogs.suntimes.com/sweet
    LOS ANGELES –A man told Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama on Wednesday — while he campaigned in Henderson, Nev. — that Obama was fortunate he was never busted for using illegal drugs.

  237. CD99, it’s fitting now that he has decided that has stated that he admires (and sees himself as) Reagan.

    He assumes whatever “shape” that is expedient. I see a diary on this but it should be one that is well documented in order to stave off the Obamabots.

    I just posted this at TM Hot Topics: “Obama: Just Another Lieberdem?”

    “A statement like this would have finished either Clinton or Edwards as candidates because of what Reagan’s legacy did to the lower income and minority voters that are the base of the party. It would have finished either of them with the creative class voters flocking to Obama now, the final ‘proof’ that they were phonies and establishment sock puppets, everyone’s worst suspicions confirmed at last. Hillary Clinton isn’t worth voting for because of something a supporter said, but Obama will get a pass for something that came out of his own mouth.”

    http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2008/1/17/1451/97364

  238. B Merryfield Says: January 17th, 2008 at 8:06 am
    He assumes whatever “shape” that is expedient. I see a diary on this but it should be one that is well documented in order to stave off the Obamabots.

    Well, don’t leave out Obama doing what everyone called ‘triangulation’ when the Clintons did it, though now the meaning of ‘triangulation’ has got changed. Huckabee used the same image: not left or right but up, rising above both ideologies. The Clintons made it work by coming up with solutions that were really so practical and worked so well that they solved both sides’ problems. (Using our tools to fix their car, and vice versa.) See http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=opera&rls=en&q=site%3A1950democrat.livejournal.com+the+triangulation&btnG=Search

    http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/article/view/?id=1336
    She delivered her Senate resolution speech on Oct. 10. It was Clintonian in character. On the one hand, she rejected the Bush policy of pre-emptive war. On the other hand, she also rejected the view that the international community “should only resort to force if and when the United Nations Security Council approves it.” Drawing on the lessons of Bosnia, she said sometimes the world had to act, even if the big powers couldn’t agree.
    She sought a third way: more U.N. resolutions, more inspections, more diplomacy, with the threat of force reserved as a last resort. She was triangulating, but the Senate resolution offered her a binary choice. She voted yes in order to give Powell bipartisan leverage at the U.N.

    Maybe Obama really is aiming at the good sort of ‘triangulation’ with the GOP (even after he trashes the word). But I don’t see him as doing it by doing his homework and thinking up solutions that really please both sides, as the Clintons did. If you want to get into how his works, see profiles on his ‘community organizing’ (“master of agitation”) and ‘It’s about power’ and … self-interest of various parties? Search for Alinsky. I’ve got the urls somewhere.

  239. The NV caucus court proceeding is at 11:00 local time today. If someone is able to post any news coming from that over day it would be appreciated. Personally, I don’t think anything will happen in regards to the complaint as it’s so late in the game but you never know…

  240. ag, i agree. let’s just expect the lawsuit will fail. hopefully hillary’s campaign watch the vote like a hawk of forcing union members to vote for obama.

  241. B Merry – I forgot, there are also quotes from BO himself about seeking political office not for the usual powers but to use it as a tool(iirc?) of ‘community organizing’. So it might be really interesting to see how his kind of ‘community organizer’ gets power and what it is used for. I’m beginning to wonder if in Chicago in his time there was a pattern of first setting groups apart (“rub raw the sores of discontent”) so as to later come in as ‘negotiator’….

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/obama/chi-0704030881apr04,0,3337845,full.story?coll=chi_news_politics_obama_promo http://www.pickensdemocrats.org/info/TheAgitator_070319.htm
    http://www.chicagoreader.com/obama/951208/

  242. i’m more optimistic on the lawsuit, especially if they point out the SDA, Jewish community also being left out due to Saturday voting date. What this really shows me is DNC needs a new leader…dean is doing some really stupid stuff

  243. 1950Dem .. all you have to do is keep going back to this:

    Now, promoting himself as a fresh face on the national political stage, proclaiming his distance from lobbyists and the Washington culture of special interests, Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) has to contend with his own history. … From Chicago to Springfield, his past is filled with decidedly old-school political tactics — a history of befriending powerful local elders, assisting benefactors and special interests, and neutralizing rivals.”—Dan Morain, ”Los Angeles Times”, September 8, 2007.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-obamaprofile8sep08,1,7542776,full.story?ctrack=2&cset=true

    And this:

    In 1996, his first campaign for the Illinois Senate, “Obama quickly mastered the bare-knuckle arts of Chicago electoral politics. His overwhelming legal onslaught signaled his impatience to gain office, even if that meant elbowing aside an elder stateswoman like [Sen. Alice] Palmer. … A close examination of Obama’s first campaign clouds the image he has cultivated throughout his political career: The man now running for president on a message of giving a voice to the voiceless first entered public office not by leveling the playing field, but by clearing it.”—David Jackson and Ray Long, ”Chicago Tribune”, January 3, 2007.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070403obama-ballot,1,4762574,print.story

    Nothing’s changed.

  244. just scanning some headlines with Rove scorning Hillary.,

    You know what I think .. the more Rove rants on her, the more people will flock to her., Rove is despised and it will turn to support for her.

    His name in any headline makes people nauseous and they will support anything but him

  245. Rove is obviously betting that Hillary is going to win the nomination and wants to start the campaign against her now. Alternatively, he may fear a BO candidacy more than HC’s and hence is trying to influence the outcome here . As Dot suggests tho, actions from his quarter are likely to rally the democratic base not turn them aside. Go with the former assesment — the Repbulicans know BO has peaked and that Hillary is the nominee.

  246. I”m thinking that they will lose the lawsuit perhaps due to timing. However, I’m hoping that the judge states that monitors must be there and that no intimidation is to take place (yeah right).

    I am still not sure how the delegate count works out. Did someone say that the Culinary workers only account for 6% of the vote? How many workers will actually caucus? I can’t see the hotel management letting everyone off at noon especially as that seem to be the time to be setting up for lunch. What about the general area of Clark County and the outher counties, how is her representation there?

    I can see the elderly voting for her and I would think that Saturday mid day would be a good time for them to vote. The Jewish vote may be supressed due to the rules of the Sabbath. Regarding UNLV, I think that he has a lot of students there so I expect that they will caucus for him. I dont’ know, i’m hoping that she can pull out a win.

    Just heard that Sen. Patrick Leahy just endorsed Obambi on the Laura Ingram show. BTW, she is having a hoot about his comparison to Ronald Regan…she said so he’s compared himself to MLK, JK and now Regan, what a laugh! She said one thing to note, all of these great men were their own men and didn’t mimic anyone else. She expects Clinton to hammer him today on this.

    Regarding Leahy, so much for change and freshness when he is embracing the very thing that is establishment.

  247. The lawsuit is lost b/c courts defer to political parties in organizing their internal affairs which primaries and conventions,etc are considered to be.

    As I said earlier, Edwards will win in NV — he was the first choice of the union and with BO deflating (it isn’t quite apparent, but he is the incredible shrinking candidate) history teaches that supporters will migrate to a middle of the road choice before coalescing around their intitial favorites major challenger, but more often than not, they come home. Home in this case is Hillary.

    The media will downplay the results in Nevada — to a degree — but it will create a sensation if BO loses. It will be first sign that Hillary will eke out a narrow victory in SC, where Bo will be shown to be afactional candidate (like Huckabee) with no real chance of winning. It is from there that the Hillary express will pick up steam.

    Expect more from Rove, et al. who are licking their chops at running against Hillary. They know how to do that. BO presents too risk a challenge for them.

  248. I think Obama embraced Reagan for one reason: to appeal to as many indys and Repubs as possible. It’s that simple. He’s just banking on Dems not paying attention or caring, and he’s probably right.

    BTW, new SC poll has Obama up 10, with Hillary getting only 17 percent of AA support. I’ll say one thing for his campaign: Their strategies may be dirty, but they’re effective.

  249. PeteKent, If Rove were more afraid of Obama than Hillary, he’d be attacking Obama and directing other Repubs to do that in order to hurt his chances to win the nomination.

    That being said, the GOP is making a big mistake if they underestimate Obama in the GE, especially if the media never turns on him. Frankly, the GOP is partly responsible for his rise because they’re part of the three-point attacks that have damaged Hillary (GOP, Dems, media). It would be ironic if they were hoist on their own petard and he won the GE.

  250. Dont believe the poll, Paula. AAs are loyal democrats and they want to win. Many will fear that BO is not electable — probalby feeling more pessimistic about his chqnces than non-AA voters. BTW the “bradley” effect is back in this election, so you can discount BO support subtantially from here on in . . .

  251. Take that NBC. It takes Hillary to drag in the ratings —

    dhue point calling out bill for his bias on edwards

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