Nevada Debate With Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Barack Obama

Nevada debate tonight. Broadcast live on MSNBC and on the internet HERE.

Dennis Kucinich will not be at tonight’s debate due to a late court ruling won by NBC.

We’ll keep our eyes on the Michigan primary results as well.

At tonights debate we hope economic issues get discussed:

Last week Hillary Clinton offered a broadly similar but somewhat larger proposal. (It also includes aid to families having trouble paying heating bills, which seems like a clever way to put cash in the hands of people likely to spend it.) The Edwards and Clinton proposals both contain provisions for bigger stimulus if the economy worsens.

And you have to say that Mrs. Clinton seems comfortable with and knowledgeable about economic policy. I’m sure the Hillary-haters will find some reason that’s a bad thing, but there’s something to be said for presidents who know what they’re talking about.

The Obama campaign’s initial response to the latest wave of bad economic news was, I’m sorry to say, disreputable: Mr. Obama’s top economic adviser claimed that the long-term tax-cut plan the candidate announced months ago is just what we need to keep the slump from “morphing into a drastic decline in consumer spending.” Hmm: claiming that the candidate is all-seeing, and that a tax cut originally proposed for other reasons is also a recession-fighting measure — doesn’t that sound familiar?

Anyway, on Sunday Mr. Obama came out with a real stimulus plan. As was the case with his health care plan, which fell short of universal coverage, his stimulus proposal is similar to those of the other Democratic candidates, but tilted to the right.

For example, the Obama plan appears to contain none of the alternative energy initiatives that are in both the Edwards and Clinton proposals, and emphasizes across-the-board tax cuts over both aid to the hardest-hit families and help for state and local governments. I know that Mr. Obama’s supporters hate to hear this, but he really is less progressive than his rivals on matters of domestic policy.


No applause allowed. 

Moderators: Brian Williams, Tim Russert, Natalie Morales (with viewer questions)

Williams announces Romney wins Michigan.  No mention of Hillary winning Michgan.

Williams:  Martin Luther King birthday.  Brings up the race issue of recent days.  Blames Hillary.

Clinton: We agree neither race nor gender should be part of this campaign.  MLK’s dream has been realized.  Edwards son of mill worker.  Obama’s profound story.  Myself a product of the women’s movement.  Obama and I have exuberant supporters and we are different from Republicans on this issue.  We are all here as a result of Dr. King’s efforts. 

Obama: Hillary said it well.  A defining moment in history.  Nation at war.  Race is always an issue.  My campaign and Hillary and Edwards and Democrats know we need to come together as a people.  We have more in common than what separates us. 

Edwards: I lived in the south including during segregation.  We made great progress but we are not over making more progress. 

Russert: Accountability.  Hillary said your campaign has been pushing this story.  True enough your campaign published a memo. 

Obama: True enough.  I have sent a message that we will focus on the issues.  I am convinced that everyone here is committed to racial equality. 


Russert: Do you believe this was a deliberate attempt to marginalize you?

Obama: No.  Look at what happened in Iowa. 

Russert: In NH your polling was higher.  Do you think race was an issue when voters got into the polling booth.

Obama: No.  Hillary Clinton ran a good campaign.  I am convinced that change is going to happen because the American people are determined that change is going to happen. 

Russert: Accountability.  You said anyone who says things you don’t like “they are gone”.  Shortly after Robert Johnson made some statements about Obama.  Is he gone?

Obama: Johnson has issued a statement on what he said.  What is critical is that the American people understand the stakes are really high on a range of issues.  Keeping their homes, jobs.  I went door to door in Nevada.  What people talk to me about is issues that affect their lives.

Morales: Slight differences among candidates, why not a woman or an African-American?

Edwards: Who is best to bring about that change.  This is a personal thing for me.  Hillary mentioned I come from a mill worker family.  Who will never give up?  Who will fight for the rights of unions to organize?  These things are personal for me. 

Morales: What is a white male to do running against these historic candidacies?

Edwards: They have asked not to be considered on the basis of their race or gender. 

Williams: You won the women’s vote in Iowa but Hillary won the women’s vote in New Hampshire.  At the last televised debate you said “You’re likeable enough Hillary”. 

Obama: I regret it.  It did not come out the way it was supposed to.  During that debate there was a tendency to parse out the issues.  We need to focus on who has a vision on how to move the country.  Not just Democrats.  Enlist the American people. 


Williams: At that debate it looked, Edwards, that you and Obama were piling on.  Did it look that way?

Edwards: It might have looked that way but I will say what needs to be said.  There are entrenched interests in this country that have to be fought. 

Russert: [Disruption from the audience]  Senator Clinton when you say Obama is not ready what are the consequences in the fall?

Clinton: I have the highest regard for Obama and Edwards.  When we have a nominee we will have a totally unified Democratic Party.  The question for those in Nevada is Who will be ready on day 1.  Energy policy, 47 million Americans not insured, Bush in the Gulf begging for lower oil prices.  All of that and more.  I am presenting my qualifications, my ideas.  I will keep putting forward my ideas. 

Russert: Are Obama and Edwards prepared?

Clinton: That is for the voters to decide.  Voters have to imagine us in the Oval office.

Russert: Obama you said in an interview that you are not an operating officer?

Obama: Being president is not shuffling paper, it is about a vision.  It is about mobilizing and inspiring the American people.  What is needed is sound judgement, hope for the future, and push aside the special interests.

Russert: What is your greatest strength, greatest weakness?

Obama: To get people to recognize what they have in common.  My desk does not look good.  I lose papers. 

Edwards: 54 years fighting.  At first for me.  In courtrooms fighting.  I feel things personally and that can undermine what you need to do.

Clinton: I am passionate.  I’ve been blessed.  To whom much is given much is expected.  I think I can deliver change.  Help people to live up to their potential.  I get impatient.  I sometimes come across that way.  I sometimes push for things faster than people are willing to go.  But you have to be able to manage the bureaucracy.  We’ve seen a president who said he would follow the Harvard school business model.  We saw the failure of that in Katrina and the Gulf Coast.  You have got to set the tone but you have to hold the bureaucrasy to account. 

Obama: That’s not what I said.  You do have to hold the bureaucrasy.  But you have to listen to different viewpoints.  We have to ask tough questions before we send people to fight.  These are questions of judgment.  But there is a need for strong management skills.  But we have to mobilize the country and be straight with them. 

Williams: We receive a lot of misinformation about you.  That you are Muslim, won’t pledge allegiance to the flag, took the oath of office on the Koran.  How will you fight this?

Obama: I am a Christian, I pledge allegiance and sometimes lead it in the Senate.  We did not do well in NH not because of these rumors but because we did not do things we needed to do in the campaign. The American people will sort out the lies from the truth.

BREAK – the economy is next.


Williams: Citibank is looking for $20 billion overseas to stay afloat.  What can be done?  Is there something wrong with foreign ownership of American brands?

Clinton: I am concerned and have spoken out about this before.  These huge pools of funds are a concern.  The U.S. Congress and the Federal Reserve Board need to do something.  The financial institutions helped create the crisis in subprime loans which threaten peoples homes.  They bundled these debts and sold them overseas.  I have a plan, a moratorium, on these foreclosures.  We need to deal with these sovereign wealth funds.

Edwards: The fundamental problem is what is happening to the economy.  The growth is for upper income Americans.  Americans are worried about healthcare and their jobs and their homes. 

Obama: Part of the reason Kuwait and others bail out our financial institutions is because we don’t have an energy policy.  Nevada has a lot of sun.  But there is no effort on alternative fuels.


Russert: Americans are feeling the bankruptcy pinch.  Edwards you voted for the bankruptcy bill?

Edwards: I regret that vote.  Middle class incomes are not going up.  We need truly universal health care, a radical transformation of production and use of energy, national minimum wage raise, make it easier to go to college. 

Russert: You voted for that bill too.  Do you regret that vote?

Clinton: Yes.  I opposed the 2005 bill.  Fortunately the bankruptcy bill did not become law.  Everything we are talking about falls disproportionately on minorities.  They are the first to be let go in economic downturns.  The first to lose their homes.  We will lose another million homes in foreclosures.  The home market is down.  I have a sense of urgency. 

Russert: The 2001 and 2005 bankruptcy bill?

Obama: I opposed them both.  The interests of the financial industry were put ahead of the American people.  We need to get rid of lobbyists and change how politics is done in Washington.  We have to release people who are in bankruptcy due to illness. 

Morales: Obama, what safeguards would you put in place to protect us from your end of the tax cuts.

Obama: Exempt middle class from the tax cuts.  Warren Buffet pays a lower tax rate than his secretary.  No taxes on Social Security checks.  That will help the economy grow.


Morales: Your plan for a moratorium?

Clinton: We have short, medium and long term goals on the economy.  Freezing the interest rates will stabilize the housing markets and will help what the FED is doing to help the economy.  We need a $30 billion fund to prevent foreclosures.  In Las Vegas there is now a beginning slowdown in tax receipts.  I want $5 billion to employ people in “green collar” jobs like installing solar panels.

Williams: You get to ask questions.

Edwards to Obama: Campaign finance.  We want to do something about health care.  Clinton raised more money from health industry until recently when you surpassed her.  Do you think they want something from you?

Obama: I don’t take federal lobbyist money.  I get a lot of money from small contributors.  Ultimately I am for public funding.  I am proud to make progress to push back on influence from lobbyists.

Clinton to Obama: We both want to convince President Bush to change direction on Iraq.  Bush has refused.  Bush wants to enter into an agreement with Iraq that will keep us in Iraq after his presidency.  We need to stop Bush from binding our hands.  I have introduced legislation to force Bush, on permanent bases and other issues.  I am asking Obama to co-sponsor my legislation.

Obama: We can work on this Hillary.  Bush wants to tie our hands.  I opposed the war consistently.  The Iraqi minister says we will be there until 2018.  My first job will be to tell the Joint Chiefs of Staff that they have a new mission. 

Williams: Will you join Obama in his pledge to get out of Iraq?

Clinton: I have already pledged to do that. 

Edwards: I have said that I will get the troops out in one year.

Russert: I asked you in an earlier debate if you would get out of Iraq in your first term.  You said “no”.  I am hearing something different tonight.

Obama: No your question was about all troops.  We might need some to protect our embassy. 

Clinton: What Barack said is what I and Edwards said.  It’s not only George Bush.  The Republican candidates are saying the same thing.  Senator McCain said we might have troops in Iraq for 100 years.

Edwards: We will have troops to protect the embassy. 

Obama: [Starts to question Edwards then stops, regarding troops in Iraq.]

Edwards: As long as you have combat troops in Iraq you have an occupation.  I will have a rapid response force outside of Iraq.  That is a difference. [Obama tries to interrupt.]

Obama: That is a distinction without a difference.

BREAK – Domestic issues next.


Russert: Volunteer army.  A federal statute which forces colleges to have ROTC and recruitment on campus loses funding.  Will you enforce this?

Clinton: Yes.  Our fine young people go into these programs.  Bush administration sends mixed messages on this.  They want soldiers but they take away signing bonuses if they are injured.  I will support our military. 

Russert: Some of the top schools do not have ROTC?

Clinton: They should not disrespect our young people wanting these programs.

Obama: Yes.  Minorities carry a lot of this load.  I have a national service program. 

Edwards: Yes.  It’s not enough to talk about the great service of veterans. 

Obama: This shows how this administration has failed.  Veterans in Walter Reed have to pay for their meals and calls.

Clinton: We have to do everything necessary to help our veterans.  Traumatic brain injuries concern me.  I have passed legislation on this. 

Williams: Yucca mountain.  Everyone pledges to end Yucca mountain. 

Obama: I pledge.  That was a mistake to spend billions but I don’t want to spend billions more.  Let’s get experts and determine what is best.

Clinton: I voted against Yucca mountain in 2001.  I have held hearings.  The science does not support it.  John was in favor of it when he voted for it twice.  Obama has one of his biggest supporters, Exelon Corporation, for Yucca mountain.

Edwards: I oppose Yucca mountain.  We disagree on nuclear power.  I am against nuclear power.  Hillary is agnostic. Obama is for it.

Clinton: But John, you voted for Yucca mountain.

Edwards: I have said for years I am against it. 

Russert: Obama you voted for the Energy bill which was called a “nuclear renaissance”.  Clinton voted against it. 

Obama: I voted for it because it was the biggest investment in alternative energy.  With respect to nuclear energy I said if we could figure out a way for safe and effective nuclear energy then yes.  I want to cap greenhouse gases. 

Clinton: That energy bill was known as the Dick Cheney energy bill.  It was the wrong policy for America.  It was heavily tilted towards nuclearly energy.  We have to break the lock of special interests.  Take the tax cuts from that Dick Cheney energy bill and put it towards clean renewable energy.  It won’t happen by hoping for it.  I voted against that energy bill.  Let’s take away the giveaways in that bill to the energy industry. 

Russert: Greenhouse gasses will increase?

Edwards: There are a whole range of alternative fuels.  Senator Clinton you have raised more money from those people.  We need a cap on carbon emissions.  I am also for a moratorium on coal fired plants. 

Clinton: I have a comprehensive energy plan that does not rely on nuclear power.  We should not have more nuclear plants unless they can be proved viable.  This should be our “moon” project.  That’s what I want to do.

Obama: This is an example of where ordinary citizens need to change. 

Williams: What is the problem with English as an official language?

Edwards: We need comprehensive immigration reform.  I am not for amnesty.  One of the requirements should be that if you came here illegally you pay a fine.  You should also learn to speak English.  We should help with that process. 

Russert: Clinton, one of your pollsters was quoted as saying that hispanic voters have not voted for blacks.  Is that your position?

Clinton: That was a historical observation.  This is a black and brown forum I wish we could discuss that.

Obama: Not in Illinois, they voted for me.  Latino voters when they know of my history they vote for me.  We agree on the broad outlines here on immigration reform.  I worked on the immigration issues.  That is the kind of leadership I have shown. 

Morales: Why is there such high dropout rates among blacks?

Obama: Same as with latinos.  When they get to school they are already behind.  They must get the help they need.  For every dollar we spend we get ten dollars back.  Reward teachers. 


Clinton: Let’s follow up on this Tim.  This is a black and brown debate.  I want to commend Barack for his comprehensive view on this.  I’ve worked with the 100 Black men on this issue.

Edwards: We need universal pre-K.  We have a huge dropout rate.  We have to create second chance schools.

Russert: Gun deaths.  Leading cause of death among young black men.  Clinton, you were for licensed guns?

Clinton: I am for licensed guns.  I am also a political realist.  The law in NY has worked to a great extent.  I don’t want the federal government to preempt local laws.  We need an effective federal registry.  We need to crack down on illegal gun dealers.  Reinstate the assault weapons ban.  I believe in the Second Amendment. 

Obama: I don’t think we can get that done.  We can do common sense enforcement.  The NRA has fought traceing of guns.  It is important for Americans to hunt and fish.  We can respect the Second Amendment but crack down on illegal guns. 

Russert: Is it too difficult to win an election and be against guns?

Edwards: You don’t need a AK-47 to hunt.  We need a president to understands hunters have a right to their guns. 

BREAK – final segment next.



561 thoughts on “Nevada Debate With Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Barack Obama

  1. Why are the trying to bring race into every argument?!? This is ridiculous! And is it me or did he just say, and it’s going to be close HERE in South Carolina. I’m just saying . . .

  2. TImmie bringing up Bob Johnson thing…saying he was making a viel comment about poor Obama’s drug stuff. Why is that subject so out of bounds for anyone to bring up?

    Hillary doing great job deflecting…jobs economy

  3. LawSchoolDem, I saw Obama’s eyes close for a delayed second when the drug use was brought up by Timmeh as well.

  4. he is having to admit that some things he says don’t come out just right….stumbling…bumbling,,hilllary needs to get on policy as soon as she gets another question. they tend to be trying to freeze her out

  5. Re: Michigan and uncommitted, Politico is already reporting that more African Americans voted uncommitted than for the Senator. Expect Big Media to try and spin this story that way tomorrow . . . typical.

  6. BTW, the exit polling in Michigan is devastating for Obama. He got 70% of the black vote, but Hillary got 61% of the white vote. Turning this into a race campaign kills him.

    Despite Obama’s massive advertising in Michigan (versus none for Clinton), he only won one gender group – single men. Hillary won married men, single women, and married women. This is a real problem for Obama because single men are the least reliable voters.

  7. Well, that’s only for African Americans who came out to vote, so it’s no measure of actual support in the state. Let’s be honest, lots of people stayed at home.

    In some counties, nobody bothered w/ ‘uncommitted.’ I would say that Hillary’s share will be no worse than Wayne County (I think that’s where Detroit is). With 17% reporting in Wayne, the result so far is H 60, U 34.

  8. Yes, the man in the audience voiced objections to the questions. According to him, they are “race based.”

  9. lawschooldem, i heard that too. williams and russert were trying to start a fight. the candidates are having none of it. thank goodness.

  10. bambi stumbling, being forced to accept what he said in the interview .. he is not an operating officer. empty suit

  11. Timmie is giving BO and JE a chance to “answer” any quetions that may have been raised about things they have said…not giving hillary the same chance

  12. bambi shooting his self in the foot….needs people around him to “get things done” … don’t hand him nothing till 2 minutes before it is to be done he’ll lose it,


  13. FYI, there’s one county where U is narrowly beating Clinton: Washtenaw, biggest city Ann Arbor. I’d guess that all the student precincts reported first. Only 17% in.

  14. She noted how Obama’s “vision” would produce the mayhem that is the federal government. She established a compelling contrast.

  15. In this way she consistently rises above the competition. Like they say, some people are playing chess, most are playing checkers, lol.

  16. Poor Obama…lots of stuff circulating on internet…Muslim stuff. How does his campaign combat such horrible stuff.

    Slow easy pitch to Obama

  17. Brian Williams giving BHO a chance to talk about how he is “victimized by lies.” They better give Hillary a chance on this issue as well.

  18. Of course they cut to commercial before Hillary can defend herself against the lies written about her. I hate MSNBC.

  19. Woops, lots of softball quesitons aimed for Obama and agianst HIllry. Thenl on ‘rebuttal time run out’ — did Hillary get a chance to rebut at all?

    Someone should count minutes given to each candidate….

  20. And yet despite that visible discomfort, Southern Born, wait for Big Media to praise his performance tonight as “unflappable” or some shit.

  21. lol, did Obama just say he was going to fight to end climate change?? lol, slip of the tung.

    I can’t post much as I have to view from my lap top, and have limited bandwidth.

    I’ll catch up later, so far so good tho.

  22. hillfans, notice msnbc stopped scrolling the dem results in michigan, but showing the gop results. i guess they got tired of hillary winning.

  23. Hillary knows her facts better than any person I’ve ever seen. Great response to the sovereign fund question.

  24. The citigroup $$ question. Edwards doesn’t know the answer, ha! HRC gave a very substantive answer. JRE has no clue so he moves to a different topic.

  25. Why the hell is Obama talking about alternative energy now? He too is CLUELESS. The question was about sovereign funds!

  26. BHO is actually talking about energy policy because he too doesn’t understand what they were talking about.

  27. Wow, HRC, the economy – Good reply. I’m impressed.
    Edwards not got a clue…
    WTF is Obama talking about Energy policy related to foreclosures, sub-prime..? Crazy. Hillary just owned the question.

  28. We need a new ad that features Paul Krugman’s comment about a POTUS that actually understands economics and inserts from that debate moment.

  29. When they get to ask each other questions will JE and BO each ask a question of Hillary? That won’t be fair as she will only get to ask one of them…

  30. Anyone who has watched debates knows that when candidates have no clue about what they’re saying (BHO and JRE), they talk about some voter they “met” who has some problem. What a joke.

  31. can i look now?

    i’m just lurking cause i dont have the guts to watch it…
    i just a wus, tell me when it gets safe to look k?

  32. Thanks to Emjay, I found you all. Hillary seems to be the only one who know what she’s talking about when it comes to economics.

  33. still want them to turn down her mic. she’s yelling…if she realizes her mic is up, she will lower her decible level

    Suddenly BO is Buffet’s best friend.!!??

    My Aunt Fannie!

  34. Hillary is so much better at explaining complex issues and giving specific answers. Obama just rambles…I have a hard time just paying attention to him. For all his talent as a formal speaker he doesn’t do well in just plain talking.

  35. BO & JE keep looking at Hillary when she answers with such knowledge like they are thinking, Oh $h*t, she’s scary smart.

  36. agree Emjay – that her mike is low, and yes, she should tone down volume – she needs also to laugh and smile more…that moment when Edwards laughed, and she laughed, was a really warm moment. She needs more of that too.

  37. JE getting to ask question to Hillary and BO

    Do you think the people you have gotten money from will expect something.

    BO…says he never takes money from lobbyist

    Gets money in $100 amounts

    Only the great BO has taken power away from lobbyist

  38. Hillary asking Obama to support legislation that she has sponsored to rein in President Bush so that he doesn’t commit the country to this policy in Iraq. Says we can work on this.

  39. Hillary’s question…ask BO to join her…convince Bush to end war…she’s intro legislation to keep him from binding hands of next pres.

    BO…never for war..

  40. Hillary’s question to Obama is brilliant. She is showing that SHE is the unifying force between herself and Obama.

  41. after the firey nh debate this one seems so tame. but they are looking t the gop being ripped apart tonight and saying we will be nice tonight.

  42. hate to say it but that Quick Response Team thing might actually could work. However, we are going to be in Iraq a long time…it’s already done

  43. Obama was quibbling over Iraq. He refuses to allow different candidates to discuss this policy, for only those in the Illinois Senate have a right to an opinion.

  44. I just had a moment of clarity here. Why I did not understand this before I will never know. I have always assumed that the entire reason Russert is the way he is is because he is devious. It never occurred to me until now that part of the reason is also that he isn’t very smart. See how he tried to tell them that they were all changing their position on withdrawal time table. I will have to chew on that one.

  45. And that quick response team is going to be comprised of combat troops Dot 48. Therefore, Breck girl is being a hypocrite.

  46. Loved Hillary on the Economy. She owned it and they were playing catch up. She answers the questions and then quickly pivots to her message which is ‘It’s the economy stupid!’. She is clear and concise and specific.

  47. isn’t Hillary already projected to win Michigan though? those uncommitted will be forgot within a few days.

    I just want to say how proud I am of Hillary. She looks so Presidential and she is armed with the answers to the really hard questions.

  48. freckles — no. The exit poll is only for ppl who bothered to vote. You can’t know how it would look if all had been on the ballot.

  49. He’s rehearsed some stuff better this time. But when Hillary asked him about doing something in the Senate to keep Bush from locking us into presence in Iraq — he went huh huh what’s that he he cant’ do that can he? Sounded like he’d never heard of the issue. While Hillary has been on it and has her bill introduced already.

    Another Bush Jr deer in the headlightsl moment….

  50. Clearly he knew he would’ve come in third in such a strong union state. Why else would he take himself off the ballot? It’s not like anyone in IA or NH would really swing their vote based on that.

  51. I think Hill should say something about one of BHO’s ideas, “I like it.” The image would give her a leg up because it would seem like the elder statesperson was giving a seal of approval. Ironically, that could help her, I think.

  52. I can just vision Obama in the White House. Now where did I put the suitcase … it’s gotta be here somewhere under all these papers. Oh, and while you’re at it, find that last bill just sent me to sign cause it was like over 2 minutes ago and I think I’ve lost it.

  53. Kentucky_mkt Says:
    January 15th, 2008 at 10:18 pm

    I think Hill should say something about one of BHO’s ideas, “I like it.” The image would give her a leg up because it would seem like the elder statesperson…

    Boy, that would be good!

  54. Did you realize when you were voting for that energy bill that it would create the renaissance it has in nuclear power plants? Amazing how Russert frames his questions as questions to Obama giving him the benefit of the doubt but when they come to Senator Clinton they are assertions for her to disclaim or discredit. Timmy makes me sick.

  55. I think she is saying special interest to get Edwards to say something that she later bats out of the park.

  56. I think it may be, at least I don’t hide where I get money from. But, I show that my vote is not able to be influenced.

  57. Now is where she should do it. For the love of God HRC say, maybe, but I have shown my vote cannot be influenced.

  58. Yes, that is one of her strengths. She should cite this bill every time she desires to establish a contrast with BO.

  59. She is fabulous. Edwards is looking less relevant. The fact is coal is big in this country…do don’t to miners what detroit did to auto workers. I happen to love coal

  60. she keeps pointing out that this debate was supposed to be about minorities and the moderator won’t let it

    gosh, he is so smug…he does not own hispanics and he stutters worse than GWB ever did.

  61. right hill…we can all contribute..

    if everyone planted 10 little trees each year for the next 10 years we could capture all extra carbon produced in that ten years; it will give us an extra decade to work out longer term solutions.

  62. of course time is up for hillary to rebut. Deliberate no questions from email to Hillary…to make it look like she is not getting anyone wanting answers. I know several questions came from here.

    msnbc using this as a big commercial for obama with hillary answering the real questions and letting him just have an open floor.


  63. someone got to her about the volume on her mic ! yeah….

    wonder if someone staff is reading this and Taylor maybe.?

  64. hillary keeps bringing back up that they are not sticking to the debate rules….haha, she is getting her kudos in.

    Edwards refuses to give Hillary any due respect. I at one time really liked him, now I regret by 04 vote

  65. Guns…hope Timmie asks BO about his questionaire where he said he was opposed to the manufacture, sale and possession of a hand gun

  66. From TPM:

    10:14 PM … Russert clearly had his agent call the bigwigs at NBC because now they’re turning the questioning back to him.

    10:16 PM … Inside Tim’s head: my ingenious question to throw anti-military Democrats on the defensive.

    10:17 PM … Inside Tim’s head 2.0: I struck out with Hillary and Obama, I’ll give it a crack with Edwards.

    10:20 PM … Inside Tim’s head 3.0: I’m a very serious guy and I won’t shy away from the toughest questions.

    10:23 PM … Russert cometh … But somehow he’s really off his game tonight. He keeps going into the questions with that checkmate relish. And then the candidate answers it without too much problem.

    10:28 PM … Inside Tim’s head 4.0: Let me whip you upside the head with some facts, Edwards.

    10:35 PM … I’m starting to wonder if Russert really knows how to deal with answering questions when the producer and sound man doesn’t work for him and the candidates have no respect for him. I think he’s about 0 for 8 at this point.

    10:38 PM … Hillary points out to Russert that they should discuss race issue

  67. I was thinking that too, emkay. Had it been directed at Hillary and she had answered that questionnaire, we all KNOW Timmie would have asked about it. Obama got another pass.

  68. russert’s problem is that he can’t play the psych game called

    “Let’s you and him fight.!” because intelligent Dems are not buying into it (at least not fully.)

    and it’s RustyJowls favorite game.

  69. From Marc at The Atlantic:

    Clinton, Obama and Florida Democratic Party in memo-war… Obama campaign sends memo to “interested parties” — i.e., the press — urging them not to report Clinton’s MI victory tonight as a victory….. Clinton campaign responds with memo noting that Obama team offered tacit support to those who pooled to vote for “uncommitted” against Clinton and that “The people of Michigan and Florida have just as much of a right to have their voices heard as anyone else.” And Florida Dems project that 1,000,000 Dems will vote in the delegate-less Florida primary anyway.

  70. No matter which way the media may spin this over 250K people walked into the polling booth and voted for Hillary if I were Hussiens people I would be worried

  71. another gotcha question and trying to bait her, she just keeps hammering away with the right answers. IMO this question maybe caught her a bit off guard

  72. How is it using fear tactics to point out that the President should be prepared to answer any attack that comes our way.

  73. “you notice they ask Hillary all the questions first? Why not ask Obama or Edwards first”

    The teacher knows that their favorite puils do not know the answers

  74. pulchritude: Yes, apparently the Obama campaign asked media outlets not to report the MI victory as a win for Clinton per Marc Ambinder at The Atlantic. Why didn’t they come out and say this when they were conducting their uncommitted drive? It was only when they knew it would fail that they did. You know if uncommitted would have won they would have been out with memos trumpeting the win of uncommitted over Clinton.

  75. No, it was totally inappropriate for you or BO to call Pakistani officials.

    Neither of you is a govt official!

    crap! BO got a pass on his bloody calls from Iowa to Pakistan.


  76. Chris Matthews: Clinton’s power play: Problems of presidency of today in terms of pathetic behavior, cronyism, incompetence, behaved as if she had won the nomination and those two partners were her allies and sprinted past the intramural and on to the varsity.

  77. tweety just said he saw it as hillary power play – like she already had the nomination & others were just going along. and approved! then, i fell off my chair 🙂

  78. A decent debate. However Obama made a good argument for Latino voters. Otherwise Clinton dominated like a president should!

  79. He knows that she won and he can’t bully his way to call her catty names. those letters and emails and petitions to nbc/msnbc is winning.

    oh no, punkin head now

  80. Those emails are going to his boss, not him…and they are asking that he be removed from covering the campaigns thro the November election.

  81. thats tonight guys, he changes his story bright and early on morning joe remember?

    so she won?

    did they have any gotcha moments to play over and over tomorrow?

  82. 11 pm: Final thoughts — first, on the debate. Edwards again kept things most to his message, and Obama parried the race questions that dominated the first quarter of the debate — he probably benefits to some degree just by having the discussion. Clinton deflected the tough stuff on race and got most aggressive on substance — maybe the closest she’s been to dominating the field in months.

  83. Matthews has been notified by big wigs that he better behave or lose his job.

    basically throwing in the towel now on Obama…says since he backtracked on Iraq he has nothing to run on. Well what about Hope, Change and his big movement.

    Matthews has to be bi-polar. He swings wild then somber, wilder then calm. Tomorrow he will be wild again. H

  84. skmf12

    Just Hillary asking her question of Obama to co-sponsor legislation with her to require Bush to come to congress to get approval before signing any agreements.

  85. I dont know…Clinton came across presidential… But not like a Latino vote winner. She dominated the economy section and domestic issues.

    She has to hit the streets from tomorrow I hope. 🙂

  86. Andrea Mitchell: Strategy clearly to run against Bush to become the presumptive leader and she was forceful not in a strident way when she talked about the mortgage crisis and I thought it was very successful.

    Chuck Todd: Not completely buying premise. Came here with one plan to win Nevada and only time she drew contrast was on Nevada.

    Matthews: Addressed herself to country as leader of country.

    Todd: Obama trying to look presidential, Matthews did it work, Todd fumbled around a little bit. Todd will always look like bigger guy, Clinton has to feel great about scoring Nevada point and Edwards was the hey guys I’m still in it guy.

  87. obama so wa$nts to get out of there…for his theme of really caring about people, his body language says much different. I bet he doesn’t know the cameras are still on. speaks volumes

  88. why does msnbc keep wanting to disparage the Michigan dem primary. It was their primary and they chose to vote and they don’t deserve to be treated like dimwits

  89. emkay, sure… But complacency is note good. Got to keep working hard. This caucus is already fixed by the pro-obama unions.

  90. this debate performance will give Hillary a boost in Nevada and South Carolina. People were watching. Now if only the media won’t try to twist some little word and try to ruin it. Would not surprise me.

  91. Hillary wanted to discuss Latinos more, but the moderators wouldn’t let her. You can be sure she is not taking them for granted..

  92. Alright, this was a good debate, except when BO and JE spoke, I honestly had to bring myself back to concienseness. Hillary, Hillary, Hillary, if at all possible, she looked even more Presidential than usual!! 8)

    She was good and on msg, she wasn’t to agressive and neither too laid back, just perfect. And I loved her Q too BO, he must be fuming over that one now!! lol.

    Keep the reviews coming please! And thank you for the ones posted already. Is CMatthews really saying Obama is done????????!!!!?!? Incredible.

  93. She was great tonight guys. Her obvious mastery of the economy and the housing crisis is going to win this thing for her. She continues to impress, and did not let us down tonight. Superb.

  94. Did BO answer Hillary’s question about joining her bill to prevent Bush locking future presidents into presence in Iraq? I jsut heard him going Duh huh what’s that nobody told me about that no fair Bush couldn’t do that could he????? And then into some more or less memorized thing to run out the clock.

    Maybe Hillary should walk over and slam a copy of her bill on his podium and insist he sign it. That would freak some people out. Or maybe she should do that to some of the talking heads. They’d die of fright.

  95. Halperin is WAY biased to Obama, so if even he cannot spin it as a BO win, that means our gal won in spades. 🙂

  96. daily kos story: michigan gop kicks off email press release congratulating mccain (!) for victory, has to correct minutes later 🙂

  97. Mathews must have multiple personality disorder.. One day he hates Hillary and the other he praises her..

  98. I unfortunately agree with Mark Harpen, all get B+, and moderators get F because they did not ask the right questions! what was this debate about? what was the title of the debate? how many questions in that regard were asked by moderators?

  99. well now he’s downplaying her performance saying that she is already acting like the nominee. he swings from minute to minute. he is swinging already

  100. The most important thing that came out of this debate for me was the revelation of the 4-page memo by the Obama camp in SC to play the race card.

    All this time, the pundits accused Hillary of playing it. Now we know — as if we didn’t already — that it was planned and coordinated and Obama admitted it.

  101. another_reader, but we need him. Strategically. He does split the anti-Hillary vote with Obama.

    I don’t care much for the phony, but for the sake of Hillary, I’ll tolerate him.

  102. I thought her energy answer was great along with some other substantive policy answers, esp her gun answer. I cheered when she answered the “you’ve abandoned the registration thng” with yes. No hedging, backtracking.

    Obama does stammer a lot. Hillary says a lot of y’know-s but she does it so fast that she gets away with it and she sounds knowledgeable and presidential. Also scary smart.

    Her best answers were the economic ones — the passionate way she talked about foreclosures and debt and the need to start fixing it NOW.

  103. gladiatorstail Says:

    January 15th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
    I unfortunately agree with Mark Harpen, all get B+, and moderators get F because they did not ask the right questions! what was this debate about? what was the title of the debate? how many questions in that regard were asked by moderators?

    I didn’t see the debate, but I’d take the B+. Obama should have won this debate.

  104. Why did MSNBC just air a clip of Obama accusing Clinton of employing Bush’s fear tactics before they broke to a commercial?

  105. filbertsf Says:

    January 15th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
    another_reader, but we need him. Strategically. He does split the anti-Hillary vote with Obama.

    Sorry but I really disagree. That’s the CW, however in NH Hillary won by peeling off JE voters. I think JE voters who were simply anti-Hillary have already gone to Obama. Current JE voters are more inline with Hillary on domestic policy.

  106. filbertsf, I agree with you in principle. but factually, Edwards is taking away voters who have more probability to vote for Hillary than Obama. Here is the fundamental argument for them. who best can fight for their daily jobs, economic anxieties, and values. and Hillary comes WAYYYY ahead. Barak is a latte liberal with hope as a message..

  107. mj, you may be right again. As I’ve said before, I’m too influenced by the blogosphere. I just see so much Hillary-hatred amongst the JE and BO crowd.

    If what you say is true, then I won’t be sorry when JE drops out after SC.

  108. mj-

    Your hypothesis looks good when you consider the results in Mi, as BO and JE are lumped together in the uncommitted pile…

  109. One thing that impresses me is that Hillary can come into something looking tired and wan and discouraged, and doesn’t care how she looks, isn’t trying to fake anything. And as the evening goes on she gets STRONGER. You can see that this sort of thing energizes her. This is a quality we need in a President, who may have to deal with unscheduled crises without a break…

    (There may have been some of that in the ‘diner moment’ — a moment of letting down energy, swinging to drawing on reserves and coming back stronger.)

  110. MJS Says:

    January 15th, 2008 at 11:41 pm

    a lot of Obama and Edwards fans seem to think Obama won?

    That’s because it was a minority issues debate and they think Obama was supposed to win. On dailykos Hillary is taking 19% of the who won vote, despite bein favored by only about 8% of the dailykos audience. Translation, she did very well.

  111. idk, realist. I thought maybe at least some of them were rational/intelligent?

    a lot of them had comments like:

    “I always hit the mute button when Hillary speaks, I can’t stand it when she’s speaking!”

    lol. I guess its cuz they’re too used to the hope and bambi dreams of Obama 😀

  112. Got knocked off, cpu overflow, lol.

    skmf12, OK, its over! Hillary won of course. And BO’s response about checking with his family and were they strong enough to do this campaign and all that, what’s up with that. If you think this is bad, wait until the Rips get to you (if you get that far) and then if you win, wait and see what they dish out for the next four years.

    I mean, you can’t two years in as Prez, hold a news conference and say, uh sorry folks may family can’t handle this any more so I have to go home, VP Edwards is going to take over, thanks for hoping for me.
    Sheesh, really, come back in 2016 if you’re not ready to go the distance.

  113. lawschooldem: Todd is the msnbc pundit who was first to suggest that racism was the reason poll results were way off and Hillary won in New Hampshire. The Obama campaign picked it up from there.

  114. Clinton the clear winner. That Co-Signing strategy was brilliant. I love love love the new strategy of attacking Bush, smartest strategy possible is to go after Bush.

  115. Joe, I don’t care if they cover Hillary winning MI, so long as they give her all those delegates, I’m happy. 🙂

  116. MJS-

    “I always hit the mute button when (FILL IN THE BLANK) speaks, I can’t stand it when he’s/she’s speaking!”

    All 3 camps have blogged that tonight. It’s called rooting for your guy and against the other guy.

  117. Hillary must have been good, commentors over at huffpo are angry that nbc and cnn seems to give this one to Hillary! 🙂 Any more reviews people?

    (by the way, I have nearly sworn off huffpo/obamapost, but I like to keep my ‘enemies’ close ) 8)

  118. Maybe we should create a new post, Inspiring Royal Prince.

    Qualification, to have the right genetic mixture and have benefitted from the people who did the work of the civil rights movement. He’s connected becaue it PRODUCED him. Sure.

  119. I don’t get that comment, just goes to show their imaturety I guess,

    Cause I LOVE her voice, I even have a few of her speeches on my iPod so I can listen to her, 😛 hehe

  120. a post from huffpo:

    “I’m an EDWARDS supporter, but I really am beginning to like Hillary. She’s strong and seems to really know what the hell is going on and how we need to move forward. Plus she’s a girl and I’m all for busting thru the glass ceiling!!! Go Girl, show um what cha workin with~~ ”


  121. Gorto

    HRC speeches on your ipod?

    Don’t you know she says she doesn’t know what to do about people who are obsessed with her? 8)

  122. LOL!!!!!!!!! What…?….

    “Obsessed…….I’m not obsessed……” lol

    Can’t help it, I am a fan, but not before I’m an admirer of her work and acomplishments and integrity as a person and etc etc etc….. 🙂

  123. I’m off to bed, night all, will be interesting to see if the headlines have changed when I get up later today, or not.

  124. i’m still watching msnbc post debate. is fineman extra-clueless among pundits or is it just me? there is a younger guy from washington post who is thoughtful and un-cynical, i like him 🙂 fineman: hillary wins on tactics and strategy but what saves obama is that he’s such a likable guy he can tell people he can’t manage his way out of a paper bag when he’s running for potus and that’s ok. (seriously)

  125. Why aren’t the pundits making a bigger deal of Obama’s admission that his camp pushed the race card after the NH win? This is vindication for Hillary and Bill.

  126. Hello to all…Hillary was great…her wealth of knowledge and confident delivery paralyzes her competition…

    the funniest line I heard so far…after Chris Matthews and his guests singing Hillary’s praise…paraphrasing – Howard Fineman made the statement that Hillary won the debate on substance, but Obama is strong on style…and then he said…The guy is sitting there basically telling us he can’t find his way out of a paperbag and he is running for president…but he is likeable” …very funny line…

  127. What’s happening? Even shills for Obama are scoring it as a victory for Hillary? I don’t get it. I felt that she had better performances in the past. Is it an expectations thing – they expected Hillary to be clobbered over the race issue?

  128. I think she won this debate (as with all the other debates) but I didn’t expect those partisan hacks to be won over by this. She’s had better performances before.

  129. hmmm

    i have a hunch that people thinkt hey can build hillary up now…to tear her down at either nevada or South Carolina…:(

  130. Nope, Anduril, she won it hands down, because she KNOWS how to fix what ails this country. It’s not about personality, and who can score the most personal “points” and cute comments in a debate.

    It is about who knows their shit. And she does, and showed it tonight.

  131. I agree H4T but she does not on every debate. I’m wondering why all of a sudden these hacks are singing her praises when they’ve been very stingy in the past when she performed stronger, IMO.

  132. MJS – you may have something there. I’m not discounting the possibility that they genuinely believed Hillary won, but they’re normally not fair with their assessments. What compelling factor made them decide to be fair with their assessments this time?

  133. I think Hillary should go to detroit tomorrow and than michigan democrats for giving her the voctory and voting for her. that will piss everyone off, on top of it, she can generate momentum from the win in MI.

  134. well, the best way for Hillary to generate momentum from the Michigan win is to hit the press.

    GO ON PUBLICLY to commend Michigan and express sorrow that to some candidates, their voices are not of value…and to REMIND THEM that to Hillary, their voices will reside with her forever.

    SHE needs to go on every news station and remind them of that and thank Michigan to get some momentum!

  135. msnbc: ‘uncommitted’ vote in michigan exit poll and who they would have voted for: 73% to obama, 19% (i think) to edwards, 3% to hillary.. so 3% of people voted ‘uncommitted’ and would have voted for hillary.. the not very smart uncommitted 🙂

    Emjay i don’t know about video archive i’m afraid.. they have been bloviating for almost two hours now 🙂

  136. It will be interesting to see someone untangle how MIchigan Democrats voted (if they voted). Maybe something like this:

    Largest group I expect: Those who thought they didn’t need to vote at all because Hillary’s was the only viable name, and stayed home.

    Then: Those who got the word that yes, you DO have to check her box or she doesn’t ‘win’. (Delegates? What’s that?)

    Then: Those who thought they didn’t need to vote so why not mischief the GOP by voting for Romney (or someone)

    Then: Those who want Obama or Edwards and heard that voting for “uncommitted” would help them.

    THen: Maybe some backroom old timers who always vote “uncommitted” so they can wheel and deal in smoky rooms.

    Those who mischiefed the GOP with Romney — does anyone expect them to tell the exit-polls that they were really Democrats? (Some sort of reverse Bradley effect here.)

  137. She should make a quick stop in Michigan, and tell them she hears their voices, and they are not Invisible to her.


  138. # Anduril919 Says:
    January 16th, 2008 at 12:38 am

    I agree H4T but she does not on every debate. I’m wondering why all of a sudden these hacks are singing her praises when they’ve been very stingy in the past when she performed stronger, IMO.

    i believe that the collective crush on hussein is wearing off, and they see that glitters aside…she is it.

  139. Look at the numbers. For a primary that “doesn’t count” HRC won more actual voters (327k) than #2 John McCain (257k), only 10k off of Romney. I think that is telling.

  140. hillfans, im at work so i have to make this quick. hillary should milk the michigan results regardless what big media says. great job for hillary at the debate.

  141. Evidently Olberman and Gregory are not math majors. They got so excited that BO would have gotten 73% of the uncommitted vote. “Ooooh” they said. That makes BO commpetitive.

    Actually no. Hillary would have gotten 56% and Obama less than 30%.

    Of course the 3% who would have voted for Hillary seem to not have quite grasped the vote thing.

  142. Tonight, that idiotpreppyscumpunk Anderson Cooper claimed – POST-DEBATE – that Obama’s gone out of his way to avoid race…IGNORAMUS!

  143. freckles Says:

    January 16th, 2008 at 1:37 am
    Evidently Olberman and Gregory are not math majors. They got so excited that BO would have gotten 73% of the uncommitted vote. “Ooooh” they said. That makes BO commpetitive.

    Actually no. Hillary would have gotten 56% and Obama less than 30%.

    Of course the 3% who would have voted for Hillary seem to not have quite grasped the vote thing.

    Further, that’s people who showed up. The Obama people, Conyers etc., worked very hard to get out the uncommite, ie, Obama vote. Hilary didn’t do anything but have her name on the ballot. When they asked voters who showed up how they would have voted if Obama/Edwards had been on the ballot, she still beat Obama by 8 points.

  144. Hillary and Obama have very different concepts of the role of President.

    Obama seems to believe that the essential role of a president is to provide vision, inspiration and judgment. He says he is not a chief operating officer–a leader who would run govenment.

    Hillary seems to believe that the essential role is to provide vision etc, but also to run government because the buck stops here. She points out that Bush was incapable of that task and failed.

    In a time of relative prosperity, you can have a president who is more visionary than detail oriented. Reagan is an example and that explains in part Barack’s attraction to him.

    But in a time of megapolitical challenges, you need a president who is willing to lead in a much more concrete and involved manner. You need a person of action. Roosevelt or Lincoln come to mind and Hillary is that kind of leader.

  145. Asked who they’d choose if all candidates were on the ballot, voters still preferred Clinton over Obama, 45% to 37%. Edwards was third with 12%, and Dennis Kucinich was fourth with 2%. The National Election Pool Poll, conducted by Edison/Mitofsky of New Jersey, surveyed 949 Democratic voters at 40 polling places in Michigan.”
    Obama backers in Michigan had urged Democratic voters to choose Uncommitted as an indirect show of support.

    Former Gov. James Blanchard, a cochairman of Clinton’s Michigan campaign, called the results a strong showing for Clinton, despite a concerted campaign against her by some Democrats.

    “Anything over 50%, we’re ecstatic,” Blanchard said. “A win is a win is a win, given what happened in Iowa and New Hampshire.” Obama won Iowa; Clinton took New Hampshire.

    “It’s a big boost for Hillary in November. We’re thrilled. Michigan has more delegates — and I believe they will be seated at the convention — than Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada put together.”

  146. I am quite sure Matthews was spoken to. When top management gets bombarded with viewer complaints, when voters say they voted a certain way because they hate a pundit, when watchdog agencies monitor his behavior, then as the old song says something’s gotta give.

    As a result, in the early evening Dr. Jeckel was in control and Matthews was behaving in a fairly objective manner–for Matthews. However, as the evening wore on, you could see Mr. Hyde beginning to stir. It wasn’t just the fact that his 5 pm shadow was starting to lenthen and his fingernails were getting long.

    It really erupted when he posed the last loaded question of he evening, i.e. would the voters rather have a candidate of inspiration who solves problems or one who plays it safe? Objection: assumes facts not in evidence.

    And who does he pitch it to but idiot Rachel Maddock who confirmed and expanded on it. Cudos to Pat Buchanan for defending Hillary, answering Matthews/Maddow and not rolling over for the MSNBC like Keith Olberman–now that is disgusting cause he knows better.

    Finally, I am quite sure that when sunlight hits the transom tomorrow, Mr. Hyde will be fully in control and the obituary will read: “Sanity? I tried it for a while and didn’t like it. I refuse to stay sane any longer than I have to”. Thems words to live by Chris and I know you do.

  147. There are 2 ways to look at Michigan.

    One way is to analyze the undecideds, i.e. BO got 73% of 37%= 27% which yields:

    Hillary: 56%
    Barack: 27%

    The other is through exit polling which yields:

    Hillary: 45%
    Barack: 37%

    Q: does the exit polling understate her win?

    Q: is Olberman trying to mislead us when he makes a big deal about Obama winning 73% of the undecideds? Surely he knows these are not undecideds but Obama supporters who were told not to vote and to characterize themselves as undecideds for spin purposes.

  148. Marc Ambinder discusses the letter the Obama campaign disseminated to the media in order to preemptively invalidate the results of the Michigan primary.

    Fox News reproduces the Obama campaign’s letter. I quote:

    TO: Interested Parties

    FR: The Obama Campaign

    RE: Michigan Democratic Presidential Primary

    Because Michigan violated DNC rules by placing its Presidential Primary on January15th, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee ruled that the Michigan Democratic Party could not use the results of the January 15 Presidential Primary to allocate delegates to the 2008 Democratic National Convention. In other words, no delegates are at stake today in the Michigan Democratic Primary.

    All of the Democratic presidential candidates publicly pledged not to campaign in Michigan, none have visited the state, opened offices, hired staff or communicated with voters through television, mail, phones or otherwise. In addition, four Democratic presidential candidates, Obama, Edwards, Richardson and Biden withdrew their names from the Primary ballot in order to avoid participating in the Michigan Primary. Clinton did not withdraw her name even though she publicly committed to not participate in the Primary. Clinton, Dodd, Gravel and Kucinich are the only candidates on the ballot today. The Obama Campaign is not participating in the Primary and has not instructed supporters in Michigan whether or how to vote.

    Therefore the results of the primary tonight have no bearing on the Democratic nomination contest.

    Florida, whose primary was scheduled for January 29th, is just like Michigan – the DNC applied full sanctions for setting an early primary date and there are no delegates are at stake. As with Michigan, all of the Democratic presidential candidates signed a pledge to not campaign in Florida. Although Senator Obama did not remove his name from the Florida Primary ballot because Florida law did not allow him to do so, Senator Obama is firm in his commitment to neither participate nor campaign in the Florida Primary and its outcome has no bearing on the nomination contest. We raise Florida today because Senator Clinton has scheduled a fundraiser in Florida on Jan. 27th, and there are signs – despite Senator Clinton’s public pledge to the contrary – that she may be planning to campaign in the state – inquiring about large venues and increased organizing activity – ahead of the Florida primary.

    Our position and the position of the DNC is clear – neither the Florida nor Michigan primaries are playing any role in deciding the Democratic nominee and we are not campaigning in either state.

  149. Hneh. Rovian. Whatever you are just about to get caught doing (ie Obama/Edward campaigning as ‘uncommitted’ in MI) — first accuse your opponent of doing the same thing.

  150. From CNN’s exit poll out of Michigan:

    MIchigan Vote if All Candidates Were On Ballot

    Clinton 46
    Obama 35
    Edwards 12
    Kucinich 2

    (I haven’t verified this, saw it elsewhere.)

  151. Since Nixon resigned, his cronies (Cheney etc) have continued running things by nominating attractive puppets: Reagan, (Bush Sr Reagan’s VP), and Bush Jr. Reagan was a good choice: a professional actor who did what he was told.

    But Bush Jr was raised to believe he really was presidential material, so when he got in, he started acting like HE was the ‘decider’ and gave them some trouble, and got the US in a lot of trouble.

    Obama looks like the Bush Jr type: a resonant voice coming from an empty figurehead, but with a delusion that he’s really something more than a puppet of his handlers.

  152. Today MSNBC says: ‘The Democratic primary in Michigan promised little or nothing of consequence after state party officials insisted on holding it earlier than the Democratic National Committee wanted, with the result that no delegates were to be awarded. NBC News projected that Clinton would receive the most votes; a significant number of voters also chose “uncommitted

    When those delegates are seated at the convention MSNBC will have to admit that it was important after all.

    On a different note: Slater looked very good against Trippi and Axelrod. No new theories from Axelrod tonight on who is responsible for the tragic death of Bhutto.

  153. According to Hillary’s Fact Hub, Obama voted to promote General Casey, a chief architect of the War in Iraq. Hillary voted against Casey’s nomination. I quote:

    Obama Advisor Falsely Claims Obama Voted Differently Than Hillary On Iraq Withdrawal, Timelines
    Today on MSNBC, Obama campaign advisor Susan Rice falsely claimed that Sen. Obama and Hillary have voted differently Iraq since joining the Senate. Rice claimed these vote differences reflected Sen. Obama’s “different position” on the war:

    JANSING: Bill Clinton made the point that in the senate Barack Obama voted exactly the same way that senator Hillary Clinton has on Iraq, and is there a vote where they took different positions?

    RICE: Yes, they have taken different positions from the beginning…Since coming to the senate, he has been very clear in pushing every year 2005, 2006, and 2007 for a withdrawal of our forces. Senator Clinton took the view for a good part of that period that it would be premature and unwise to signal that the U.S. was prepared to withdraw, to set a timeline or a deadline.

    Actually, with the exception of Sen. Obama’s vote to promote Gen. Casey, one of the chief architects of the war, his voting record is exactly the same as Hillary. Hillary and Sen. Obama have never voted differently on troop withdrawals, timelines or deadlines.

    Full list of votes available here.

    1/15/2008 6:26:44 PM #

  154. Here is the URL for the Fact Hub entry I cite in my previous comment:

  155. 1950democrat: if your figures are right then the original exit poll was understated. In that case the revised winning margin for Hillary over Obama would be 11% rather than 8%.

    I would have thought Edwards would do better in a state which has lost so many jobs. I would have thought his message would have resonated better there than most anywhere.

  156. Maybe the people who promoted voting for for ‘uncommitted’ sort of gave the impresson that it was really for an Obama/Edwards team (or just an Obama/whoever).

    Anyway I have a cartoon idea:

    Big happy HIllary labeled with her percent.
    Medium size donkey labeled with ‘undecided’ — with Obama and Edwards peeking out of the donkey suit.

    The point being that she got more than both of them put together. And she wasn’t even working for it, as O and E were.

  157. reviewing posts from last night, early this morning. can’t stop laughing at gorto’s Ipod-ing HRC speeches. hilarious.

    guess we’re all a little nuts over hillary. 🙂

  158. hey hillfans, i still have to see the entire debate this morning. i worked all nite but went over the debate thread for reactions from u all. looking forward to it.

  159. Good morning! Missed the debate – had to work. I see here that Hillary did fine! 🙂

    A lot of interesting exit poll data from MI:

    One not so good thing in the overall good data stream though:

    The exit poll showed Clinton with 71% among white women, but only 34% among nonwhite women. Overall, Clinton’s support among black voters was 30%, with 68% going to Uncommitted.

    The nastiness of the previous days might’ve taken a toll…

  160. Morning all…have you seen this quote by John Lewis? Don’t know if this has been posted here..

    Rep. John Lewis (Ga.), a prominent Clinton supporter, raised criticism of Obama to a new level. In an extensive interview, Lewis, a King lieutenant and icon of the civil rights movement, called Obama “a friend” but added: “He is no Martin Luther King Jr. I knew Martin Luther King. I knew Bobby Kennedy. I knew President Kennedy. You need more than speech-making. You need someone who is prepared to provide bold leadership.”

  161. Michigan Democratic Primary Results
    Candidate Votes %
    Hillary Clinton 328,151 55%
    Uncommitted 236,723 40%
    Dennis Kucinich 21,708 4%
    Chris Dodd 3,853 1%
    Mike Gravel 2,363 0%
    Key: Winner
    Precincts: 100% | Updated: 7:37 AM ET | Source: AP

  162. Hah hah 😀
    Poor Josh Marshall at TPM. He’s having such amazing troubles coping with the reality:

    I’m happy to discount Chris Matthews’s viewpoint and certainly Tim Russert’s. But even Keith Olbermann seemed to agree that Hillary had somehow dominated the debate and treated the other candidates as they were already defeated opponents.

    I thought she did fine. Don’t get me wrong. But that’s completely not the debate I saw.

    Hopefully poor Josh can get a balloon from the Obama campaign or something to comfort him.

  163. Good morning Hillfans. Watched first part of debate (taped) this morning and will watch rest later but did read through comments here and at TM. Saw first ten minutes of Morning Joke and Mika was doing her usual BHO cheerleading with smirkiness in full display.

    Read here then switched to CSPAN for a few minutes and a caller made a point worth pushing: BHO’s support for the hawk of hawks Joe Lieberman when he ran in 2006. The Lieberman-Obama thing deserves a post here IMHO. Aside from BHO’s feeble claim that he has always been against the war, his Lieberman connection goes strongly against where he draws the line for expediency’s sake.

    Here’s the Las Vegas Sun explaining why it’s not just the teachers’ union in Nevada that is fighting the Culinary union. It’s an old rivalry that is now getting a chance to be expressed and demonstrated against. I wouldn’t bet on the Culinary union winning this one. What they want is to disenfranchise a lot of groups and I’m sure that Hillary picked up on this from both her supporters in Nevada and people that she has talked with.

  164. DemAC, thanks the Josh report. I’ve deleted TPM from my Favorites as well as others whose traffic stats I won’t boost. (boy was that a convoluted sentence!) I used to enjoy reading there, esp. Muckraker. I sent him an email a couple weeks ago letting him know how disappointed I am with the direction in which he has gone. In the past I’ve had email conversations with him but think that he’s gone off the reservation this time. He can’t seem to separate personal bias from political commentary.

  165. RATS!! does anybody have a link for the whole debate? i thought i recorded it on my dvr and it is nowhere to on the recording.

  166. Forgive me is someone already added this during the debate, but this comes from the liveblogging at ABC:

    9:09 pm: Obama throws his “overzealous” staff under the bus. He has done this fairly consistently in the campaign, when oppo research goes bad. This will get some play among the oppo researchers for other campaigns.

    9:18 pm: Likeable enough? “I absolutely regret it,” Obama said. But it was a joke — why regret it?

    9:39 pm: From ABC’s David Wright: Seems like the only debate so far is over whether Obama’s messy desk is a sign that he’s not up to the job. Obama arguing he has vision, but needs staff to handle the details — the Type B president. Clinton did seem to get the better of him in that exchange, though he did score back a point or two in rebuttal. Not surprising he should lose that round.

    9:56 pm: Sen. Clinton is answering the questions on the economy with depth and range — she’s a policy wonk at heart.

    10:14 pm: That was a strong swing at a curveball by Clinton, when asked about denying federal funding for colleges that don’t allow military recruiters on campus.

    10:22 pm: Sen. Clinton had the details ready to go on Yucca Mountain — that’s knowing your crowd. Edwards: “the science that has been revealed since that time . . . ” Ooh. [or as my son would say, that hurts!]

    10:28 pm: On energy, an overall strong performance by Clinton. As soon as this debate turned to substance, she’s turned it on.

    11 pm: Clinton deflected the tough stuff on race and got most aggressive on substance — maybe the closest she’s been to dominating the field in months.

  167. B Merryfield,
    I hear you. I’ve read TPM a lot over the years and liked it very much. Guess it was all nice and jolly as long as it was us against the Rethugs. But come this election and the primaries – and those self appointed gurus of progressiveness show their true mettle. Disappointing, to say the least.

  168. Craig Crawford: “It seems odd that Barack Obama went out of his way in Tuesday night’s Democratic presidential debate to describe his management style in ways that are bound to remind voters of George W. Bush’s above-it-all detachment.

    Hillary Rodham Clinton took issue in the debate with Obama’s notion of how a president should operate, seizing an opportunity to portray him as a Democratic Bush. Their differing philosophies will likely play out in many ways as they compete for the party’s nomination. …

    “‘I think you have to be able to manage and run the bureaucracy – we’ve seen the results of a President who frankly failed at that,’ Clinton said, referring to Bush. ‘He went into office saying he was going to have this kind of Harvard Business School CEO model, where he’d set the tone, he’d set the goals, and then everybody else would have to implement it.’

    “Voters tend to look for characteristics in a new president that are different from the last one. Look for Clinton to continue pressing the case that, while Obama is running on the hope and promise for change, his self-described management style sounds like more of the same.”

  169. Hillfans, would you please make a follow up to CNN’s Rebecca Sinderbrand reports:

    This is only an example of her reports on Hillary. In almost all CNN reports on Hillary they use the same photo where Hillary is seen in what appears to be a blue suit or jacket. It is now over a week, they use the same photo. I think they use it on purpose, because actually it looks a little bit odd compared to other Hillary’s photos. By the other candidates they use different photos each time they make a report on them, only by Hillary they keep on using the same old and ugly photo. Please look on this issue.

  170. “It seems odd that Barack Obama went out of his way in Tuesday night’s Democratic presidential debate to describe his management style in ways that are bound to remind voters of George W. Bush’s above-it-all detachment.”

    “Mr. Obama says his strength is the ability to bring people together; his weakness is reflected by this: “I asked my staff never to hand me paper two seconds before I need it because I’ll lose it.”

    ”Hmm: claiming that the candidate is all-seeing, and that a tax cut originally proposed for other reasons is also a recession-fighting measure — doesn’t that sound familiar?”

    Ladies and Gents, I present to you: Barack W Obama!

  171. Why Hillary’s Support Goes Up

    Some big reasons:

    1. She doesn’t bash core Democratic constituencies
    2. She doesn’t try to pack primary polls with non-Democrats and ineligible voters
    3. She does come out with solid and progressive policy positions
    4. She backs up her policy papers with the ability to speak about them in-depth at the drop of a hat
    5. She knows “It’s the economy, stupid.”
    6. She goes head to head with the most vile and argumentative MSM celebrities and politely puts them in their place
    7. She doesn’t care if The Villagers like her
    8. She has fought for equality and human rights at every step of the way in her four decades as a public servant, and is an internationally recognized champion of women’s rights

  172. Re: Obama’s management style, or lack thereof.

    I don’t know about you all, but I detest managers or executives that have no organizational skills, losing papers, losing passwords; or actually I think you could call it a personality disorder. I’m messy too, but I have found that in order to really gain respect from subordinates, you must constantly show that you have ultimate control. I have had bosses that are messy, and I completely had NO respect for them in the end. Now, I have a boss who is neat and organized, and he and I really get along and are productive b/c he knows what he’s talking about with me. He doesn’t rely on me to tell him what to talk about.

    In other words, a messy boss is a non-respected boss; which automatically leaks out into messy decision-making and just a plain messy personality.

    That said, I have had some really smart bosses and friends who are messy, but they have absolutely no control over their subordinates and ultimately, they rely on their subordinates too much, which to me, is bad management.

    Being on time is not even relevant. My neat and organized boss is not always on time either, but his tasks are always on time. Obama is a fool if he thinks that helps him be a good President at this present time.

  173. This is VERY GOOD news from the FEC: “Some Movie Ads Require Disclosure”

    “A federal court decided today that the conservative group Citizens United could not run ads for its negative film on Hillary Rodham Clinton without disclosing the ad’s donors. The group wants to release and promote “Hillary: The Movie” to coincide with the dates when many states will hold primary elections, but the court found that in order for the ads to adhere to current campaign finance law, Citizens United would have to disclose who paid for the ads. A lawyer for the group who won a similar case before the Supreme Court last year said there’s a discussion about appealing the ruling.”

    You can read up on these scumbags here and scroll down to MOVIES for details. This is another Dick “Asswipe” Morris project:

  174. Well, I do think we’re better off if the Commander in Chief is not “messy”. I know I’d sleep better at night anyway.

  175. From the debate, said Hillary in response to a question on playing a “fear card”:

    The fact is that we face a very dangerous adversary and to forget that, to brush it aside, I think is a mistake. So I do feel that the next president has to be prepared. Because we are up against a relentless enemy. They will take advantage of us. They will certainly, as they have over the last several years, continue their attacks against our friends and allies around the world.

    Asked to comment on that said Obama:

    I have to say that when Senator Clinton uses the specter of a terrorist attack with a new PM during a campaign, I think that is part and parcel with what we’ve seen with the use of the fear of terrorism in scoring political points. Which I think is a mistake. Now I don’t want to perpetuate that. I think that’s part of why we ended up going into Iraq. And made a big strategic error that has made us less safe.

    Now this is interesting. Either that man means that he isn’t prepared to meet an attack, should something horrible like that happen. Or he means that he is ready, but he’s not going to talk about it with the voters, during the election season. Has he something to hide from us other than his thin résumé?

    In both cases he’s seriously nuts.

    This creates a gaping hole in his already tiny national security credentials. The Republicans would drive a horse and carriage through it in a General Election.

  176. Actually, what Hillary said about the new PM, makes such an event less unpredictable, and thus less fightening. I don’t get it, now any mention of national security is playing the fear card?

  177. The Unbearable Inanity of Tim Russert


  178. “Unfortunately, Russert’s brand of journalism, rather than being ghettoized as a pointless or perverse form of entertainment—like shoulder self-dislocation or cat surfing—has immense influence.”


  179. I just have to say this, there have never been a time in my life, and I’am 50yrs old that I’m have this disgust with most of the men and women in MSM.

    The laziness and arrogance of too many in the media who think they and only they understand how this world works. And they have the right to annoint the next president.

    When I think of writers like Thomas Payne and his inspirational writing that help build this country that carried thru generations thru generations then to get to Chris Matthews, Timmeh Russet, MSNBC and the rest through out MSM, it’s PATHETIC!!!

  180. guys, this racial divide is pissing me off.. like MI is latest example. can Obama pull off this nomination with white limousine liberals+african americans+students congregation. I have no doubt this is how he wanted to play it all along after IW and NH. He didnt waste much time doing it. What do you all think?

  181. “Viewers watch a candidate getting grilled by Russert not to assess the candidate’s views but to assess his or her ability to withstand the grilling. And, when this sort of toughness and sparring becomes its own reward, the vacuity of the questioning is almost guaranteed.”

    Brilliant observation by Yglesias! Thanx for the link TheRealist.

  182. Clinton Shines In Vegas

    By John Fout Political Correspondent
    1/16/2008 7:06 AM EST

    “When the debate turned to policy, the three Democrats agreed on most issues. But deciding who won the debate came down to critical differences to answers on three big issues: the economy, energy policy and foreign policy. On these issues Clinton asserted her knowledge on policy issues and dominated Edwards and Obama.”

  183. gladiatorstail Says:

    January 16th, 2008 at 9:56 am
    guys, this racial divide is pissing me off.. like MI is latest example. can Obama pull off this nomination with white limousine liberals+african americans+students congregation. I have no doubt this is how he wanted to play it all along after IW and NH. He didnt waste much time doing it. What do you all think?

    No, she still garners abou 30-40% of the african american vote, she garners most of the blue collar dem vote(the base of the Party). It’s divisive, but not winning. Further, MI occurred at the height of this race stuff. I think if Hill goes out and talks to african american voters about the issues, alot of people will say, hey, wait, this is no racist.

    Have you seen this article?

  184. Great Michigan Victory the Untold story:

    “Tonight Michigan Democrats spoke loudly for a new beginning,” Clinton Campaign Manager Patti Solis Doyle said in a statement. She added: “Your voices matter. And as president, Hillary Clinton will not only keep listening, but will make sure your voice is always heard.”

  185. On the “race issue” in Michigan: Do we know what the black voter turnout was yesterday – compared to previous MI Dem primaries?

  186. Well, remember Conyers organized the “uncommitted” vote for Obama. I don’t think Hillary had any orginization, she certainly didn’t run any ads, so who is to say.

  187. *Ripubs love Obama. from the Las Vegas Sun:

    “But Barack Obama is, at least, likeable.”
    By Jon Ralston · January 16, 2008 · 5:31 AM

    They could have been more patronizing. They could have been more disingenuous. They could have been more cynical (Just read the opening sentence.).

    But I don’t see how.

    The Las Vegas Review-Journal’s endorsement this morning of Barack Obama is an exemplar of intellectual bankruptcy, designed to be an attack on Hillary Clinton by using a phony embrace of Obama. It is likely to have the opposite effect because Democratic activists loathe the RJ — and they are who will be voting Saturday. And with the RJ’s track record on major endorsements, this could be, as CityLife Editor Steve Sebelius put it, the kiss of death for Obama’s campaign.

  188. One of my favorite parts of last nights debate was when Hillary called GWB pathetic for going to Saudi to beg them to lower oil prices. I always love it when she rips into him. She doesn’t like him too much I don’t think lol.

  189. Man, Stephanie Miller and her callers are dissing Hillary’s win in MI and debate performance.

    What happened to all the progressive personalities I used to love and read? I guess when we were all railing against Bush and the GOP, we didn’t really see the differences amongst ourselves. Now, it’s out and open.

    One of Miller’s Obamamaniac caller said Hillary can’t claim a win in MI because she didn’t win by 90%. The caller said she read in the Nation that because Hillary ran uncontested, her win should have been in the 90s instead of 55%. Pathetic.

    Another caller mocked Hillary’s answer to Iraq troop withdrawal, noting that Hillary mentioned that she would leave troops to protect our “strategic interest.” Hillary’s not protecting American interest she claims. Doesn’t this caller use gas and heat her home?

  190. filbertsf, I don’t get air america anymore, but if anyone does, they need to call into these shows and defend Hillary. This is ridiculous. Look at what Krugman has said. Obama is to the right of Hillary on domestic issues. People need to call in and defend her. We can not just be silent.

  191. I used to like Stephanie Miller, but remember her Dad ran with Goldwater. She’s really a libertarian Dem, not Hillary’s target voter.

  192. Zogby, the incorrigible, unreliable , “pulling numbers out of my a**” pollster says BO has substantially cut into Hillary’s national lead and is now tied with her. When everyone else says she has returned to pre-Iowa numbers nationally or is getting there.

    Now watch the networks, BM and the BO loving blogosphere play this up to prop up their Golden Boy. And ignore all the other polls that show otherwise. Anything that will boost him will do; they need the “pulling numbers out of my a**” pollsters desperately.

  193. The Gallup poll

    Clinton: 45%; up from 33%.
    Obama: 33%, unchanged.
    John Edwards: 13%; down from 20%.
    Rep. Dennis Kucinich: 1%; down from 3%.
    Mike Gravel: 1%; vs. 0.

  194. Let me try to explain…

    Hillary is a centrist/moderate/progressive and we live in extremist times, so Hillary is attacked from the fringes of both the left and right.
    We democrats are USED to nominating someone as president of the liberal wing of the democratic party, instead of president of the United States. This is why we have only had two democratic presidents since Lyndon Johnson won in 1964, and only 3 presidential terms (12 years) out of the past FORTY.

    It’s like Charlie Brown and the tree, where he keeps hitting his head because, “It feels so good when I stop.” It’s almost a collective amnesia from election cycle to election cycle, like a, “beer-goggles”, one night stand, where, AFTER the GE, we democrats ask ourselves, “Why the hell did we nominate this guy?”, as if we are only able to see our error in judgment in retrospect.

    It’s like the deck of, “cards”, that we democrats seem to have, which exists only for the purpose of accusing other democrats of using them, like the gender card, the fear card, etc., as though the republicans WON’T. This is why you could say that for the past forty years or so, we democrats have rarely been playing with a, “full deck”, in more ways than one.

  195. Stephanie Miller’s radio show assumed the role of propaganda arm of the Obama campaign the day Barack Obama announced for the Presidency.

  196. I often check, which is supposedly a site for “friends and foes”. It”s really just foes! EVery headline is a negative. Even this morning, after such a strong debate, all negative. It’s disgusting.

  197. I’m really feeling that Obama’s empty suit message is starting to sink in and he may have a few pollster trying to keep him afloat.

    His message of put me in and I’ll let you do all the work to “change” america cause I simply can’t keep up with this will wear out.

  198. gladiatorstail Says:

    January 16th, 2008 at 9:56 am
    guys, this racial divide is pissing me off.. like MI is latest example. can Obama pull off this nomination with white limousine liberals+african americans+students congregation. I have no doubt this is how he wanted to play it all along after IW and NH. He didnt waste much time doing it. What do you all think?
    Not anymore, now that I know that it’s a tactic that the Clinton fought and beat!!! It’s out in the media what Obama and his campaign, supporters in and out of the media did on video for history to review. It’s a done deal…I will move on but will keep an eye on it….I refuse to be Flavor flav in MSNBC reality play.

    Btw, Jessie Jackson Jr. should never be the co-chair of any national race again. Take that crap back to Chicago….that Katrina quote was an insult to this AA who have relatives in Nola that is still struggling with Katrina.

  199. Democratic Delegate Trackers:

    Wednesday, January 16, 2008
    Michigan Delegate Estimate

    The major media has decided unilaterally to not report the potential delegate totals of the Michigan primary. While officially Michigan has 0 delegates, such a decision can be overturned at the convention. So what were the results? Goobergunch over at MyDD was kind enough to run through the numbers and provide an estimate. This is extremely unofficial, but, it likely to be rather close to the final numbers:

    Clinton: 73 delegates
    Uncommitted: 55 delegates

    We will update the delegate tracker.

  200. I dont think any campaign has full time sockpuppets like BO’s does. They are everywhere, sniffing around the comment sections and trolling their crap.

  201. Kingsgrove, In the lat 3 days he is down 7% , Edwards up 4%, Hillary down 3%



  202. Hmm I wonder why B.O. Is sinking….?

    No chance to tout his great speeches? Perhaps reality has hit home..that you need a president with substance like Clinton.

  203. dt, Don’t worry about national polls, or Zogby. We all know this race is a dog fight. Besides, Zogby was way off in NH, and he got MI wrong, too, on the GOP side.

  204. carbynew, have you seen her plan to rebuild NOLA and the Gulf coast? It kicks ass. She also put out legislation to try to get the whole failure INVESTIGATED, same as the 9/11 Commission did for the NYC bombings.

    So Hillary treats Katrina as big a tragedy as 9/11. Plus Bill has gone down there and helped raise $150 million to help. Obama, meanwhile, has done nothing.

  205. From Chicago Sun-Times:

    The debate highlighted a state issue that Congress has grappled with, the storage of nuclear waste at Yucca Mountain. Obama, Clinton and John Edwards oppose Yucca, taking the popular local position. Clinton reminded Edwards he twice voted for Yucca as a senator.

    The debate showed a difference in approach to the Oval Office, with Obama, running an aspirational campaign, saying he didn’t see the presidency as a hands-on exercise and Clinton, stressing her readiness from “day one,” saying that without skills in managing the federal bureaucracy, debacles like the handling of Hurricane Katrina cannot be avoided.

    Another head line:

    Obama takes heat over Farrakhan link :

    Following a column in Tuesday’s Washington Post noting that a magazine linked to Obama’s minister, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, honored Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan, Barack Obama said he condemned “the anti-Semitic statements made by Minister Farrakhan” and disagreed with a decision to honor him.

    Does not sound like a leader. He issued a statement after it was pointed by Washingtonpost columnist.

  206. January 16 2008 9:00 AM
    New Mexico Lt. Gov. Diane Denish has announced she’s supporting Hillary Clinton in the race for the White House.

    “New Mexicans are concerned about the fate of the country and are paying close attention to who our next leader will be,” Denish said in a press release following Tuesday’s Democratic debate in Las Vegas, Nev.

    “Anyone who watched (the debate) saw that Hillary is the person who can lead us into a future where we provide health care to families, responsibly end the war in Iraq and improve education opportunities for every child.”

  207. Can we go after Bush jr. now?

    I betcha New York firefighters is just love seeing GWB “begging” the Saudis.

    Yep! Mission Accomplish my ass…Where’s Timmeh?

    Hey Chris, do you think the Saudis like drinking a beer with GW?

  208. In terms of polling, Zogby is rated at the bottom by his peers so I will never put stock in anything he says even if he might have Hillary leading by 30 points.

    Am I the only one who can’t get the song Hillary ’08 out of their head?

  209. BTW, is there going to be a recount in NH? I read somewhere the secy. of state agreed to that. That’s fine with me. As other posters have said, I want to be sure the system is working right by November.

  210. I have some marketing tag lines. He has my permission to use them for free:

    Zogby – when numbers don’t matter

    Zogby – when those tea leaves hit too close to the mark

    Zogby – using both fingers and toes

  211. DemAc: Voters vs Zogby

    But somewhere along the line, whatever “secret sauce” Zogby was using in his weighting of demographics and calculations of likely voters went sour. In 2002, his final polls were pretty lousy. In Minnesota, Zogby predicted Democrat Walter Mondale over Republican Norm Coleman by 6 points; Coleman won by 3. In Colorado, Zogby picked Democrat Ted Strickland over GOP incumbent Wayne Allard by 5; Allard won by 5. In Georgia, Zogby picked Democrat Max Cleland over Republican Saxby Chambliss by 2; Chambliss won by 7. In Texas, Zogby’s final poll had Republican John Cornyn over Democrat Ron Kirk by 4 points; Cornyn won by 12. Zogby’s final poll in the Florida gubernatorial race had Jeb Bush winning by 15, but only three weeks earlier he had Bush winning by only 3. Bush won by 13 points.

  212. I know I just said national polls are meaningless now, but since Obama claims Hillary is less unelectable, I found this interesting: The new USA Today poll, which shows Hillary with much higher negative ratings than Obama (no shit, considering the disparity in press coverage), has McCain over HRC by 3 but beating Obama by 5.

  213. I love it. The great american network MSNBC is now busy with OJ. I hope they stay busy with it for the next few days.

  214. HillaryforTexas Says:

    January 16th, 2008 at 11:36 am
    carbynew, have you seen her plan to rebuild NOLA and the Gulf coast? It kicks ass. She also put out legislation to try to get the whole failure INVESTIGATED, same as the 9/11 Commission did for the NYC bombings.

    So Hillary treats Katrina as big a tragedy as 9/11. Plus Bill has gone down there and helped raise $150 million to help. Obama, meanwhile, has done nothing.
    I’m very much aware of some of the work the Clintons are doing in the Gulf region but no, I have not read her plans on Nola.

  215. Total delegate count with Michigan and superdelegates included.

    Clinton 275
    Obama 98
    Edwards 46
    Kucinich 2
    Uncommitted 55

    Let Obama/Edwards supporters fight the DNC to get MI uncommitted delegates seated, they can not seat them without seating Hillary’s 90 MI Delegates (voted and superdelegates)

  216. Yes, there is a recount “N.H. Primary Democratic Re-count Underway
    CONCORD, N.H. (WBZ) ― Secretary of State William Gardner says his office is ready for Wednesday’s re-count of New Hampshire’s Democratic presidential primary.

    Democrat Dennis Kucinich has paid $27,000 to Gardner’s office to start the re-count. Election officials tell WBZ-TV that the recount could take up to a month.” (type in http:// before link)

  217. Paula Says:
    January 16th, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    “Bill drew 7,800 at a raucous rally at UC-Davis last night. Glad to see her campaign is actively courting college-age voters. Better late than never!” from Sacramento Bee

    AND 3500 were turned away at the door!

    When I hear stuff like that, it makes me proud of my state, California. We will go for Clinton in CA.

  218. Thanks all for the NH update. Forgot Nader raised the same questions in ’04, and canceled the rest of the recount when it was clear there were no irregularities.

  219. the more I think about Obama’s remarks last night re the role of the presidency. He just wants to delegate the responsibility..plain and simple

  220. TheRealist

    Your post late this morning @ 11:00- perfect, and realistic 🙂

    Thanx also for the link to “Russert-the-Inane”

  221. I personally did not like, after clicking on the GrinnellDem (by the way, Grinnell College was a stronghold for BO in the caucuses) link one of the things that popped up was some sort of page that had one of my old passwords and an inaccurate, but very close, version of one of my screen names in a filled-in box.

    I have cleared cookies. Should I do anything else? Is this a panic attack on my part over nothing?

  222. MJ and Paula,

    Read either here or Taylor’s in last 3 days that Dennis K did pay the deposit towards the required fees to move the recount forward.

Comments are closed.