The Hillary Haters and Hillary Clinton’s Character

As New Hampshire votes, this is a time of opportunity, a time to learn.

After all the denials about what drives the haters, they are finally revealing themselves:

10 minutes into Sen Clinton’s address to a crowd of 700 in Salem, NH, a man near the front of the hall interrupted the remarks — standing up with a big, yellow sign reading “Iron My Shirt” and loudly chanting the same phrase. He was soon joined by another man in the back. Those homemade yellow signs (with the slogan sometimes followed by a profane, derogatory term for women) first popped up at a feminist protest at the Masters in 2003.

At first, Hillary kept plowing through her stump speech, but when the interruption didn’t stop she asked for the house lights to come up. As security started to remove the two hecklers, Hillary said “ah, the remnants of sexism are alive and well tonight.” The crowd erupted, rising to give her a standing ovation.

“As I think has just been abundantly demonstrated,” she said, “I’m also running to break through the highest and hardest glass ceiling.”

(Additional video with a generous Hillary promising a tutorial on ironing your own shirt HERE)

The character of PINO presidential candidates is being revealed as well under the pressure cooker of a presidential campaign:

Former Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., on the tail end of his 36-hour campaigning marathon in New Hampshire on day before the primary vote, reacted to rival Sen. Hillary Clinton’s emotional moment Monday.

Edwards offered little sympathy and pounced on the opportunity to question Clinton’s ability to endure the stresses of the presidency.

“I think what we need in a commander-in-chief is strength and resolve, and presidential campaigns are tough business, but being president of the United States is also tough business,” Edwards told reporters Laconia, New Hampshire.

Some in Big Media are beginning to see The Hustler for what he is:

If you haven’t seen the 1961 movie “The Hustler” starring Paul Newman and Jackie Gleason, you should — it’s a classic.

As I watched the Democratic New Hampshire debate Saturday night, that movie popped into my mind.

Fast Eddie, a young, vigorous and skillful pool player, takes on the legendary Minnesota Fats, the old champion. They agree to play and the last man standing wins the pot.

Fast Eddie runs the table in game after game but as the hours go by he begins to tire. The Fat Man just keeps coming, steady and relentlessness. During one break, as Fast Eddie slumps in the corner exhausted, the Fat Man washes up, applies some talcum, comes out of the washroom and says, “Fast Eddie, let’s play some pool!”

And in the end, the Fat Man walks out the winner.

Hillary revealed a great deal about her character today:

In an interview on Monday night, Mrs. Clinton said she choked up at the Portsmouth event because the other woman had expressed concern for her feelings, after months when Mrs. Clinton was focused on voters’ anxieties.

“It was just so touching when this woman said, ‘Well, what about you?’” Mrs. Clinton said. “I just don’t think about that, I think about what I can do for other people I have spent a lifetime trying to help others; I’m very other-directed. That’s maybe why people don’t get me in the political world.”

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525 thoughts on “The Hillary Haters and Hillary Clinton’s Character

  1. nytimes.com/2008/01/08/opinion/08steinem.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

    Gloria Steinem cogently describes the psychosexual dynamics of the Democratic primary.

  2. BMerry

    I just wanted you to know I love your stuff on Hot Topics; you reveal warts as well as any campaign opposition operative.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    TV alert

    what sounds like an intelligent discussion about the happenings today in NH with 3 reporters and editors
    on Charlie Rose now.

  3. that was a great article by Steinem – and the Ted Kennedy mention endorsing Hillary- you’d think to publish in such a large newspaper that that would have to be cleared by someone. Half of the Kennedy’s are supporter Hillary -the rest I believe gave to Dodd, not one of them is supporting Obama. And RFK Jr. who’s supporting Hillary- he needs to speak up – Hillary is the fighter, Hillary is the Kennedy in this race, not the fraud Obama.

  4. Read the whole article:

    http://tomwatson.typepad.com/tom_watson/2008/01/the-sexist-medi.html

    What kind of progressive American leader would stand silent, supporting with the cold reserve of ambition the disgracefully sexist, blatantly anti-feminist attack on a well-respected woman of the same party, a political foe perhaps, but a national Democratic leader?

    Barack Obama – so far.

    Obama has benefited mightily from sexism in this campaign, and has remained silent. And that sexism is starting to be noticed, and commented on – even in places you don’t expect it. John Cole, to say the least, is no Hillary Clinton fan but the gender-based attacks have gotten to him:

    “Quite frankly, I hate to say this, but I think what we are actually seeing is a double-standard here, and the feminists may be right. This is all about Hillary being a woman. John Edwards has been 150 times as angry the whole campaign, and has built his entire campaign around it. Howard Dean was angry, and people lapped it up. Here, Hillary isn’t really angry, just matter-of-fact and frustrated, and people are giving her shit.

    I don’t want Hillary as President, but it sure looks to me like she isn’t getting a fair shake and is being subjected to a double standard. It’s bullshit.”


    Then there was Clinton’s flash of anger in the same debate as the two men teamed up to bash her – she showed her anger, something male candidates (think McCain) do every debate, and was promptly accused of having a “meltdown.” More people are beginning the see this media lynching as a negative story for Democrats of truly historic; here’s Kevin Drum at the Washington Monthly:

    Am I feeling bitter? You bet. Not because Hillary Clinton seems more likely than not to lose — I can live with that pretty easily — but because of how she’s likely to lose. Because the press doesn’t like her. Because any time a woman raises her voice half a decibel she instantly becomes shrill.

  5. ADMIN,

    ITS ON…

    THIS IS WAR, OBAMAS ROAD TO FAME…
    OR
    HILLARY ROAD TO HELP AMERICA…

    THE BATTLE IS JOINED, I GUARANTEE YOU THIS IS GOING TO TURN INTO FINE BATTLE…

    IM BETTIN ON HILLARY… 🙂 🙂 🙂

  6. Hillary’s magnificent when she’s up, she’s magnificent when she’s down. She works harder then anyone else and she’s ten times more competent then the competition, both parties counted. If women voters don’t support her in this elections I will not ‘til the day I die understand ”why?”

    What more in a candidate to the Presidency could anybody ask?

  7. Ben Smith at The Politico on Obama’s anti-abortion moment:


    Obama faced a less laughable protest [than Hillary], from an anti-abortion group, and used the moment to make a point about conciliation, declaring himself “proud” of anti-abortion protesters and praising their organizing.

    NOTE: I should mention that Obama praised their organizing after they were dragged out of the room.

  8. Said Obama on the anti-abortion hecklers (per Marc Ambinder):


    “Some people got organized to do that, and that’s part of the American tradition that we’re proud of” he said.

    If I understand this correctly Obama’s proud of 1) people organizing against a woman’s right to choose and 2) that these organizing efforts lead them to heckle him.

    What a courageous and inspiring man he truly is…

  9. i wont pretend to know about mark penn, so i dont care if he comes or goes, i assume he believes in hillary, so i wont bad mouth him…

    BUT,

    IT WOULD JUST BE NICE TO HAVE CARVILLE, OR EVEN PAUL BEGALLIA, OR BETTER BOTH, DO YOU KNOW IF HRC’S CAMPAIGN HAS ANY THOUGHTS ON THEM?

  10. For those who remember the Edwards debacle when he hired, fired, rehired, then they quit bloggers saga.
    Amanda Marcotte of Pandagon is no longer an Edwards supporter. Maybe she’ll read the Tom Watson piece and abandon Obama too:

    http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/01/07/6531/

    Completely unacceptable amounts of sexism. It’s bad enough that the media plays the game with Clinton where if she shows any emotion, she’s too feminine or too scary, but if she’s more stoic, she’s a scary ballbuster, but to have her own party members (if political rivals) play that cheap sexist card is too much. I’ve been reconsidering moving my Edwards support to Obama, and unless someone can show me evidence that Obama is just as likely to take cheap, sexist shots like this, I think that’s what I’ll be doing in light of this. We need someone at the top of the ticket who can know when to hold ‘em. And Obama does on this issue—when baited with the opportunity to be sexist to Clinton, he declined. Edwards appears to have taken it back, so it’s hard to say that it wasn’t just base opportunism on his part. Still, it should be immediately evident to any candidate that playing the “Hillarygirlieweak” game with the media is a bad idea.

    I can’t bring myself to vote for the hawk in the campaign during the primaries, but dammit, this makes me sort of wish she’d win so that I can vote for her in the general election in good conscience. You don’t get much closer to saying outright, “We simply will not allow a woman to win if we can help it,” than that quote there. When male candidates show a modicum of controlled anger, they get credit for their passion and their big, brass balls. Hell, the former President Bush was coached to act angrier so that people didn’t think he was a wimp. But no one will cut Clinton a break.

  11. Yeah, he’s proud that people organize to deny women their constitutional right to privacy. How utterly bizarre. I wonder if he feels that way about the Ku Klux Klan’s activities?

  12. Loved that Steinem article so much. Also, like seeing the exposure that the media is starting to show about the ramped sexism (double standard) located within itself.

    It is, also, really a shame that the feminist movement has such a negative connotation these days – from both men and women. And, that many strides for equality have been abandoned recently. A lot of people really believe things are 100% equal for the sexes in America and they are 100% wrong.

  13. admin,
    “I can’t bring myself to vote for the hawk in the campaign during the primaries, but dammit, this makes me sort of wish she’d win so that I can vote for her in the general election in good conscience.”

    Now that’s hypocrisy writ large!

  14. Obama did NOT decline the chance to label Hillary as too emotional. He framed it as ‘campaign stress.’

    In fact she is emotional about the danger of another GOP presidnecy — something millions of people would cry about.

  15. gladiatorstail,
    I’m not trying to argue as much as understand The Anointed One. Perhaps it only looks strange because it’s out of context. However, I have a hard time seeing Hillary praising the organizational heft of the right-to-life movement if they showed up to heckle her.

  16. If women voters don’t support her in this elections I will not ‘til the day I die understand ”why?”

    Here’s a good starting point — Mark Penn’s endless nattering about women — for example, professional unmarried women who need to “compensate” according to him via their work. Or his labeling of lower-income women as “women with needs.” Or his weird claims of the campaign ‘owning’ women voters — I’ve seen similar odd claims from male posters who profess to understand how women think/vote.

    It’s been a total embarrasment to see him flitting around promoting himself, his agenda and his book with his demeaning sloganeering.

    I can’t wait until he’s gone.

    I read similar comments per what I’ve quoted at the oft-recommended Taylor Marsh site — “women are their own worst enemies.” Interesting stuff at a site where the female proprietor remains “uncommitted” despite a caucus in her state just around the corner.

    What I would ask is that if Hillary’s “ten times more competent” than the competition, why is it specifically women voters who are off their rockers for not supporting her en masse while the male voters are held harmless?

    I will continue to support Hillary to the end, but it’s often in spite of her “strategists” or some of her supporters.

  17. skmf12,

    I am with you about Mark Penn in that I think he really does care about Hillary. However, I think that he should step aside – not necessarily quit – and let someone else do his job (Carville, et cetera). He is an amazing asset to the campaign, but I just think he is not suited for his current position (he should probably just crunch the numbers).

  18. I particularly love the point Steinem makes which basically asks “Would a black WOMAN with as little experience as Obama has even be a consideration for the nomination??”

  19. He is an amazing asset to the campaign

    Really? By dismissing youth voters in IA? Generalizing about women? Going on a book tour while putting his primary client in some sort of “inevitibility” pilot mode? Causing friction with union support? What, exactly, makes Mark Penn such an asset? From where I sit, Ken Strasma owns his ass.

  20. reed061, you are dead on about Penn. I’m terribly sorry, because he may be a truly nice guy who is really devoted to Hillary. But he is a FREAKING DISASTER every time he goes on TV or opens his mouth.

    Honestly,even as much as I love Hillary, I react with revulsion to the man. I am sorry, but I do.

  21. HillaryLandRocks, what do you mean regarding Strasma and Penn? Strasma is working for Obama and led the field work in Iowa. Is that what you mean? – that Strasma is very good? We do think btw, that Strasma is very good and actually a pretty nice guy. Too bad he’s with BO.

  22. heres some article for you HLR.. i hear you are stressed. I dont care but I dont want to see Mark penn on TV. thats all. he wears expensive suits and too well dressed and cocky for television. hillary loves loyalists. he has done her lot good. and he will keep doing her good, but not on TV 🙂

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/07/AR2008010702261.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

    Why I Still Back Hillary Clinton

    Early last year John Kerry called me to say he was not going to run for president in 2008. I had served as his national treasurer in 2004 and was among those who felt he should consider running again. He would have made a great president. But it is almost impossible to overcome $450 million in negative advertising.

    After we hung up, I needed to make a tough decision. I have served as the national treasurer of four Democratic presidential campaigns. I have seen our presidential politics up close for many years, and I understand well what is at stake.

    The Democratic field this year has been rich, and I believe any of the Democratic candidates would be a superior president to the one we have now. For part of this campaign I supported Sen. Barack Obama. But I have come to realize that Hillary Clinton is the best candidate.

    I did not reach this conclusion easily, although I have a long history with the Clintons. I served as national treasurer of Bill Clinton’s 1992 campaign and subsequently served in his administration. The Clintons have been guests in my home, and I have been their guest at the White House. Hillary Clinton is an extraordinary woman and a great intellect. When I was going through personal difficulties, she could not have been more supportive or compassionate.

    But as I weighed which candidate to support, I tried to think broadly. Polls of the Iowa caucusgoers in 2004 had reported that the single most important factor in their decision was electability.

    Seven months ago, despite my affection for the Clintons, I did not feel that Hillary Clinton was electable.

    Looking at the field, I was taken with Barack Obama. His freshness and message are appealing. I had read his books and agreed with his ideas on governance and the role of the president. I believe that he is a great talent and will be a major player in our party for decades to come. I also believe that if Barack Hussein Obama became president, the rest of the world would look at our country differently, perhaps helping to repair the damage the Bush administration has done to our global reputation.

    My role as national campaign treasurer has been not to raise money personally but to sign up fundraisers, to encourage them to maximize their efforts and to make them feel part of the candidate’s political family. Last year I sent e-mails to the 400 most effective fundraisers in the country announcing my support of Obama and asking about their interest in becoming involved with his campaign. I received 100 positive responses.

    But late last year I realized I had made the wrong decision. The opportunity for the Democrats to recapture the White House is real. The Bush administration squandered much of the goodwill toward America after Sept. 11, 2001, and, given the events of the past four years, it would be tragic if we selected a nominee who falls short in the general election. And Obama is still largely untested and inexperienced. Even looking at his success in Iowa, which should provide momentum in today’s New Hampshire primary, I think that Hillary Clinton is more electable. Obama is attractive, but he would be the object of an unbelievably negative advertising campaign. Hillary has already been vetted beyond imagination.

    It was not easy for me to conclude that I was wrong. Over the past several months I’ve talked to many people who also initially had doubts about Hillary but now think that she is the strongest candidate. Hillary Clinton has run a terrific campaign. She has been knowledgeable in the debates. She has the experience of having lived in the White House for eight years, and her husband — the best president of my lifetime — would provide excellent counsel. I believe that hers would be the strongest and most effective voice on education, the economy, energy policy, health care and foreign policy. She would be best at preserving Social Security. And she would hit the ground running.

    I have told those fundraisers whom I led to Obama that being able to see important changes and acknowledge electability is more important to my political ethics than consistency in the face of changing facts.

    I switched my allegiance because I think the most important thing I can do is work toward nominating the strongest candidate. It is vital that the Democrats win back the White House. I have been down this road many times, and I am confident that Hillary Clinton’s experience and depth of knowledge best prepare her for winning during the difficult homestretch of a presidential campaign.

  23. HLR,

    Everything that you say is true and that is the reason he should have never been given his position to over see her campaign (and why he should step down). Nonetheless, he is a talented person that should have been used for advice, to crunch numbers and whatnot. And, to dismiss him as the sole reason for Hillary’s campaign problems is over simplifying things.

  24. The “iron my shirts” guy is a genuine idiot, he really does not think a woman should be president.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dc/2008/01/sexist-jamokes-disrupt-hillary.html

    A couple of yahoos interrupted Hillary Clinton’s speech tonight in Salem by waving big signs and chanting “Iron my shirts!”

    Clinton asked that the lights be turned on, apparently to see them better and declared. “Oh the remnants of sexism, alive and well tonight,” to applause.

    She then talked about breaking glass ceilings, before joking as the pair were hustled out: “If there’s anybody in the audience who wants to learn to iron his own shirt, we can talk about that.”

    We followed.to ask what the heck they were thinking.

    Nick Gemelli, who is 21, and born at least a decade after “iron my shirts” was an anti-women’s rights slogan, didn’t have much of a rationale. “I just don’t think a woman should be President,” he said.

    He couldn’t really say why, but he agreed that he was a health care voter, as the sticker on his carrying case implied. The “Hillary for President” sticker was a bit more of a puzzle.

    He said he had just been given both and peeled them off. He said he had no connection to any campaign.

    At least he got some attention. His friend — a la Bart Simpson — said his name was Hugh Jas, but The Mouth later learned that his real name is Adolfo Gonzalez Jr.

    Update Adolfo apparently has a MySpace page that says he is a Republican who doesn’t do drugs or have a girlfriend, and calls himself “Captain Fun.” He did seem to enjoy himself more than Nick.

  25. Is that what you mean? – that Strasma is very good? We do think btw, that Strasma is very good and actually a pretty nice guy. Too bad he’s with BO.

    Yes, and agree 100%. Particularly on the latter.

  26. HillaryLandRocks,
    Here’s a good starting point — Mark Penn’s endless nattering about women — for example, professional unmarried women who need to “compensate” according to him via their work. Or his labeling of lower-income women as “women with needs.” Or his weird claims of the campaign ‘owning’ women voters — I’ve seen similar odd claims from male posters who profess to understand how women think/vote. It’s been a total embarrasment to see him flitting around promoting himself, his agenda and his book with his demeaning sloganeering. I can’t wait until he’s gone.

    While I agree with you in general on Mark Penn’s book and many of his statements I think it’s also very easy to target him for a scapegoat at this point. I don’t think that the average voter is all that concerned about Mark Penn. Or knows who he is for that matter. Perhaps this is part of the story, but not a very big part I think, in any case not the biggest part. Obviously, if the campaign had donned a more feminist mantle early on we would’ve had an entirely different campaign, whit its own new set of pros and cons.

    What I would ask is that if Hillary’s “ten times more competent” than the competition, why is it specifically women voters who are off their rockers for not supporting her en masse while the male voters are held harmless?

    While you frame that question brilliantly, that wasn’t exactly my point however. And I certainly don’t mean to blame the women of America if this somehow goes south. It’s just that you could reasonably expect women voters to be more aware of the importance, and the benefits, of “breaking the glass ceiling” then men voters. And that you could reasonably (based on historic voting patterns and the gender gap) expect women voters to be more passionate about the issues and values that Hillary embodies.

    Competence perhaps is not a key ingredient in winning the Presidency and so is not very important at all. GWB’s wins over Gore and Kerry signal that at least competence isn’t the most important aspect.

    My point was rather the other way around; if women don’t support her, if they don’t see how competent Hillary is, how remarkable a President she would be and all the great things she could do for this country, why would we expect men to?

  27. The “Hillary for President” sticker was a bit more of a puzzle.

    Pretty simple — you need to be stickered to get into the event.

  28. Jon Stewart made fun of the concept of sitting at the table on his first Daily Show since the writers strike. It was very effective framing.

    Paraphrasing: People say we ought to sit down at the table. What is this table? blah, blah . . .

    It’s positive going negative. Just like the lobbyist legislation. I think that is how she goes negative after this.

    Dick Morris anticipated that Hillary would have to question BHO’s electability in her next strategy. I think that is what the Farmer article is about. So, he is constantly spinning that as racism. Clearly, one does not follow from the other. Opposing candidates have to question each other’s electability regardless of race or gender. So, they better be ready for the DM sping coming out of camp BHO/ JRE. They have no problem co-opting Repug talking points.

  29. H4T,

    I agree. Whoever let that man go on TV or talk to the press for that matter needs to be slapped – hard. He needs to stay behind the scenes and away from the public.

  30. admin,
    Now that’s a real gem in the family of mankind. Perhaps it was a good thing to discard the youth vote early on. 😉

  31. OK im trying to be nice here, about penn, i’ll leave all the insider knowledge to everybody else, i dont personally know the guy, wait, i dont even personally know hillary; so therefore i dont know the real dynamics being played out in campaign…

    just trying to say, i love CARVILLE, love BEGALLIA, and so if they are just hanging around somewhere, lets just invite them back in….:)

  32. I think Mark Penn is the prime reason she did not call BHO out on the anti-union “special interests” statements.

  33. ok heres why the NYtimes article becomes a self prophesy. now those two kids are seen by media as jokers. imaginee the same to obama. saying something about AA. they would have been beaten down to death, vilified on the planet and wrestled down and arrested. I dont mean to say one is more wrong than other, I am just saying, one is a joke and other is a punishable offense.

  34. kentucky_mkt, i dont think it was because of mark penn. it was because obama immediately had a retort waiting, that hillary received most money than any repub or dem from pharma and insurance industries. that would have backfired on her.

  35. you could reasonably expect women voters to be more aware of the importance, and the benefits, of “breaking the glass ceiling” then men voters.

    Not really. I’ll agree with you that the average voter is not aware of Mr. Penn, specifically, but he/she shouldn’t be. For example, it’s only political geeks like myself, admin, and others who react to the name ‘Strasma.’

    However, Penn is the chief strategist and responsible for how the campaign is perceived by women voters. If women voters are not more aware of the importance (and I agree that they should be), the failure lies on the shoulders of campaign strategists like Penn.

    One of the problems is that the Clinton name is essentially a franchise, and viewed by too many involved with the campaign as a franchising opportunity. My personal opinion is that there are too many involved who jumped on board for the franchise without due thought to the special considerations necessary to build relationships with voters (and esp women voters) for the non-establishment nature of Hillary’s campaign.

  36. I can think of a much better retort that BHO had waiting, but I don’t want to spell it out here.

  37. glad said: “that hillary received most money than any repub or dem from pharma and insurance industries”

    They already say that.

  38. I am just saying, one is a joke and other is a punishable offense.
    Hear, hear! Racism rightly is a big no-no while sexism is all fun and jolly.

  39. BUT THE POINT IS HE LIED.. thats why I am pissed at media. not that influence of lobbyists blah blah.. its that he lied. I want media to ask him, DID YOU LIE TO AMERICAN PEOPLE WHEN YOU SAID NO TO HILLARY’s ASSERTION ABOUT YOUR CAMPAIGN MANAGER BEING LOBBYIST. did you lie, yes or no. simple. if he said yes, then he is done and vetting on lying to american people can start. if he says no, then video shows otherwise, so he is lying. but these lazy bums are too busy praising him.

  40. penn will step aside. why? hillary’s donors and supporters like me will demand campaign staff changes. sorry-when hillary lost iowa by 8pts he should have been dismissed.and i wonder if going to sc etc will do more damage. they need a few days down and a new double take strategy. its the only hope here. penn hurt many young hillfans with his remarks on kids and facebook. divert a tithe onf money to pay for mobilizing hillary legions to diff states. and while m perculating i think obama is not about policy of course-its about him etc.. he uses fervor to get votes. hillary needs to do something to appeal to emotions. for godsakes she is losing women in the polls. this is unaceptable. so many young smart fresh americans and its time she does what bill did-hire the new fresh young thinkers of america.

  41. another thing while i’m at it…

    tonight on cspan, they had a camera walk down the line waiting to get in to see obama, it was up close and personal.
    as they went by, i saw a ‘dowdy’, ‘frumpy’ middle age woman, a little heavy set, wearing jeans, and frizzy old hair, standing there stairing around her, with the huggest smile and wide open stare, waving, and looking absolutely like she was in la la land…

    now i know you have all seen the red carpet on Oscar nite in holiwood,
    and seen the lost adoring stares of the fans, right?
    well thats the look she had… and i thought, YUCH!
    this is a presidential election people, not an oscar nomination…

    so everytime we say on this site, why would a perfectly good women, vote for obama instead of hillary, YOU ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER!!

  42. gladiatorstail,

    That pissed me off too when the media praised Obamas -lackluster, IMHO, like all his others – debate performance, when he sat there and LIED.

  43. HillaryLandRocks,
    Point taken. Hopefully the campaign has learned a lesson or two by now. We can only look forward and I hope we’ll see a comprehensive effort to engage women of all ages, but particularly the young, in the coming weeks. Without them a theme of change by electing the first woman President rings a bit hollow.

  44. Imo to have played the gender card too soon would have looked weak, as though she had nothing going for her EXCEPT being a symbol (like You Know Who).

    But coming up the way it has, it’s not just about her, it’s about media treatment and mysogny against ALL women. (And it’s about the attacks on her and Bill over the years. It’s like she’s been weathering the blows — but now she’s kicking ass.)

  45. gladiatorstail, I am totally, completely 100% in agreement. HE LIED. And worse, people are saying they are attracted to his HONESTY. This is bullshit. HE IS A LIAR.

    HE LIES.

    HE LIED.

    A LIAR.

    Put that in an ad dammit!

  46. DemAC — in reviewing the comments, let me state that I didn’t mean to jump down your throat, specifically. My comments come from a different place — I’ve had a bad feeling for a long time based on campaign messaging — frankly, it’s what prompted me to head out to IA. There’s still time to turn this thing around, and I’m not sentimental about the Penn mystique.

  47. reed.. that frikin fox news sucks thing cracked me up.. as much as I think they are lunatics, they crack me up… they chased the ass out of hannity.. ROFLMAO! these guys are a menace..

  48. Hopefully those dedicated Ron Paul-ites will vote in droves for him today because I remember watching an Iowa caucus on TV (the one on C-SPAN) and seeing a guy in a RP shirt standing with the BHO crowd. Crossing my fingers that those fund-raising machines actually vote for their own candidate.

  49. HLR.. admin or anyone.. can you post a tutorial on how to make youtube videos? I mean, like from start to finish. I and others have asked several times, but we got no response. I know I should do my own job, but my total lack of grasp on technology leaves me really crippled and I dont want to install anything that might contain virus.

  50. HillaryLandRocks,
    Oh that’s OK, no offense whatsoever taken. Not living in an early primary state it’s very valuable and very interesting to hear directly from you heroes who work on the field and who interact directly with the voters.

  51. gladiatorstail — if you have a clip in one of avi, QT (mov) or mp3 formats, you are almost done. Or, are you asking about how to mix different streams, add audio, etc?

  52. I am absolutely convinced Penn has to go and Carville has to come on board. Now, if done, some will critcize this move and refer to the speech after Iowa. They will say that Hillary doesn’t get it and that she is just keeping the old strategy, surrounding herself with the “old timers.”

    The problem with this is that this isn’t the problem. Voters are just not processing the message they are being give as it is intended. Carville is absolutely the right guy for this because he is a normal guy. Look at his resume: 1.) he’s a graduate of LSU not Harvard and 2.) he has his own sports show that bridges generations. This second point is interesting when you consider that younger adults would never consider an “old time coach” (e.g., Rich Brooks) returning to coach a team the same way they did the Iowa speech photo. So, that is what we need a normal guy that can come up with metaphors to help people process the right message. It’s a communication problem aided and abetted by the MSM.

    Now, I don’t think Penn is a bad guy. (I do think having him on board will be problematic when bringin up Jim Demers.) They need a scapegoat though and they should stage a Penn scapegoating. Listen, people don’t like to feel bad about themselves. Have you ever met someone that actually thought they were ugly or stupid when in fact they were? Having a scapegoat provides Hill supporters with a way to not feel bad about their initial support. They didn’t make a bad choice (And, they really did not in my opinion! She is the most electable and would make the best POTUS!), it was Mark Penn’s fault.

    My take is that aggressive moves such as this would energize her supporters and cause major cash flow to her campaign. I’m still advocating a dress design contest and ebay auction of that dress to benefit Susan G. Komen. If voters don’t get to see the winning dress (I’ll even settle for pantsuit. Maybe funnier and more presidential?) until the debate, that will get people watching the next debate. She does fantastic at those debates. We want all eyes on her during the debate!

  53. How about with our donations, along with the 44-cents, we put in some other number that says it’s okay for women to cry too, and in general we condemn the sexist stuff that the media has been doing.

    What would be a good number for that?

  54. GT — you need software. I have an older copy of Adobe Premiere, but you don’t need commercial grade. I’ll root around the available freeware tomorrow to find something suitable.

  55. Hillary Clinton – Obama is no Martin Luther King – she is very right, and this is good tactic for South Carolina to make the people there think hard about whether Obama’s the real thing or just a pretender- on the thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com:

    Later, during an appearance in Salem, Mrs. Clinton refined her remarks on Fox:

    “You know, today Senator Obama used President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to criticize me. He basically compared himself to our greatest heroes because they gave great speeches.

    “President Kennedy was in Congress for 14 years. He was a war hero. He was a man of great accomplishments and readiness to be president. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. led a movement. He was gassed. He was beaten. He was jailed. And he gave a speech that was one of the most beautifully, profoundly important speeches ever written in America, the “I have a dream” speech.

    “And then he worked with President Johnson to get the civil rights laws passed, because the dream couldn’t be realized until finally it was legally permissible for people of all colors and backgrounds and races and ethnicities to be accepted as citizens.

    “I’m running for president because I believe that there is not a contradiction between experience and change.”

  56. OK. I will look around for adobe premiere. folks around me are pretty smart. they can get me a free copy at my office. I will ask the it fella, he is a smart one. he hasnt been good to me ever since he knows i support hillary 🙂 but he has no choice. lol..

  57. Says TPM:


    Believe it or not, the first results of the New Hampshire primary are officially in. The small village of Dixville Notch has closed its polls after 100% of voters turned out, as is allowed under state law, and here are the results:

    Democrats:
    Obama 7
    Edwards 2
    Richardson 1

    Republicans:
    McCain 4
    Romney 2
    Giuliani 1

    That’s right, a total of 17 votes. The village has done this in every election since 1960, and since 1996 has had something of an informal competition with another village, Hart’s Location, over who will finish voting and report the results first. The results are not necessarily predictive of anything — Wesley Clark won both localities in the 2004 primary, while coming in a distant third overall. One thing that is striking, however, is that more people voted in the Democratic primary in a village that has historically voted heavily Republican for the general elections, and that the crossover votes went decisively to Obama.

    The village of Hart’s Location, New Hampshire, has reported its presidential results closing the polls with 100% turnout, shortly after Dixville Notch did the same. The numbers:

    Democrats:
    Obama 9
    Clinton 3
    Edwards 1

    Republicans:
    McCain 6
    Huckabee 5
    Paul 4
    Romney 1

    As with Dixville Notch, it’s important to note that the results don’t necessarily foretell an outcome. For example, Wesley Clark won both villages in the 2004 primary, while coming in way behind John Kerry and Howard Dean statewide.

  58. lninla, thank you for that quote. Pointing out BHO’s hypocrisy.

    I am so ready for the “Talk is Cheap” ads to air in Nevada and CA!!

  59. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/01/08/bill-clinton-cant-make-hillary-younger/#addcomment

    Hillary will not change but she will change the country as 44th President ! ANYTHING after 8 years of cheaters Bush Jr. – Cheney will look good. Even Obama!!

    Bush Most Admired next to Clinton’:
    Just like the TIME Person of the Year, FORTUNE 500, INC 500 Could somebody reading please publish the process by which Gallop’s Poll conducted its poll? Thanks a lot!

    Bush Standings are: Dec 2007 is 10% Dec 2006 is 13% Dec 2005 19% Dec 2004 23% Dec 2003 29% Dec 2002 28% Dec 2001 39% Dec 2000 5% Dec 1999 1% per Gallup poll. Notice after 9/11 Bush had a meteoric RISE in popularity but he wasted it on his neo-con plan to pre-emptively attack Iraq. With end of Bush’s Presidency the percentage is bound to drop even further. After all he is not Clinton who can make a comeback from Crawford ranch cutting wood!!

    Ex-Repulican writes: “I really enjoyed reading these comments! Yes, this result is ABSURD because George W. Bush will be in the books as one of the WORST presidents in the history of this country. He’s in league with Dick Nixon at least. But, let’s recall that the results of this ‘poll’ are deeply flawed. First, Nelson Mandela is not ‘in our nation’, he’s in South Africa! Secondly, 10% is a very small fraction so the result tells me that nobody is really admired. Thirdly, there will always be statistical ‘tail’ of peoples’ opinions,
    so that I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that at least 10% of Germans ‘admired’ Hitler if you’d taken a poll in 1946!!! So, don’t fret, we will see when the historians of the future will make clear the crimes of GWB, he is lost, and so are the Republicans he dragged down with him.”

    R. Engels, Tucson, Arizona
    says “Bush lied to the people, his country and the world to create his energy “footprint in Iraq”; the great divider, mentally deficient president will go down as the bottom rung of Presidents. Never have so few destroyed so much
    and we have another year of his arrogance. If he is the most admired man in America, this country deserves what it gets.

    EKK says “BUSH represents greed, power, manipulation and complete disregard for your fellow neighbor. I’m not religious, but GOD help us!”

    Andy, Evansville, IN says “Imagine now, if Iraq becomes another democratic Islamic nation down the road, well, like Turkey… keep dreaming!! I am not. I want our troops home by 2009.

    Bush Jr. is a spoiled rich kid–who was born again and somehow became President, in spite of the fact he is inarticulate, uncharismatic, and a foreign/economic policy blunderer. His legacy as Presidential role model will be the example to avoid at all costs for ALL future Presidents.

    R. Engels, Tucson, Arizona says “Bush lied to the people, his country and the world to create his energy “footprint in Iraq”; the great divider, mentally deficient president will go down as the bottom rung of Presidents. Never have so few destroyed so much
    and we have another year of his arrogance. If he is the most admired man in America, this country deserves what it gets.

    Clinton did so much more good for America, both nationally and internationally except he had a problem with skirt chasing I admit. Who in their right minds can say the same thing about Dubya Bush Jr.? In retrospect Bush Jr. gave NO-BID contracts by the BILLIONS to HALLIBURTON and others in this Iraq war!! Bush Jr. & Chenney are thieves.

    R. Engels, Tucson, Arizona says “Bush lied to the people, his country and the world to create his energy “footprint in Iraq”; the great divider, mentally deficient president will go down as the bottom rung of Presidents. Never have so few destroyed so much and we have another year of his arrogance. If he is the most admired man in America, this country deserves what it gets.

    In this nation of 300 million there still are 30% of the population that admires Dubya Bush Jr. – Cheney Whitehouse years: Here’s a sample:

    Walt from Belton, TX writes “How can you compare a man with no morals, Clinton, with a man of extremely high morals, Dubya Bush Jr.?” (Can you believe some people still think these thoughts!)

    Who was / has been a better 42nd President Bill Clinton or 43rd Dubya Bush Jr. If you are ashamed to answwer for a sitting President then historians will do the job for you and sooner than later. They have to.

    In the remaining year that we have lets listen to McGovern andImpeach Bush – Cheney

    That’s the choice we have today between a seasoned politician in Hillary Roddam Clinton and fresh new face of Barrack Hussein Obama! NH make your choice on Tuesday January 8th 2008 otherwise the United States of America will make the decision for you on SUPER Tuesday February 5th 2008!

    Go Hillary44 08! http://hillaryis44.org/ http://facts.hillaryhub.com/ http://www.hillaryhub.com/ This election is a national campaign for the long haul till Super Duper Tuesday with 24 states voting on February 5th 2008, which will DECIDE the NOMINEE not the early states! A pre-Iowa snapshot of the national election scene: http://uselectionatlas.org/2008.php

    P.S. BIG Media is already jumping on the bandwagon!! If they do not get Bloomberg they will get OBAMA to sink our chances in 2008!!
    http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/david_ignatius/2008/01/the_world_agrees_with_iowa.html
    People get off your butt before we another another Bush Jr. who may not handle Pakistan correctly. Take us to wars in Waziristan or Iran!! Remember the gunboats from IRAN today!

    Go Hillary44 08! http://hillaryis44.org/ http://facts.hillaryhub.com/ http://www.hillaryhub.com/ For a little pre-iowa national election snapshot: http://uselectionatlas.org/2008.php

  60. Hillguy, I’m in Los Angeles too – wonder if we know each other from campaign headquarters on la fayette

  61. I sure wish we had more info on Nevada. Polling has completely ignored that state since early December.

  62. gladiatorstail, if you want adobe premiere, go to adobe website and you can download a free trial, it works for 30 days before you have to purchase to keep it working, but if you don’t want to, just uninstall and delete. i should warn adobe software usually has a high learning curve, it took me a couple years to really get used to photoshop, so this might be using a tool way too sophisticated for what you’re trying to do. also probably uses a LOT of memory so if you have a fairly old PC it’s probably not going to run well.. apologies if i am telling you stuff you already know 🙂

    http://www.adobe.com/go/trypremiere_pro

    you might search sourgeforge.net for some good open source software instead. i would search but too tired right now 🙂

  63. mark penn should not be fired, he should be relegated to the background where he can strategize and plan the campaign behind closed doors. having him out and putting labels on people reflects back on her as a “textbook campaign”, not spontaneous nor sincere.
    carville, on the other hand, must be rarin’ to get his 2-cents’ worth into the campaig and she needs him to fight back against the bullies who surround her.

  64. This is shaping up to be a fight worth having and it is not for the faint of heart. I would contribute more money to the campaign but I am at the lawful max for the primary and general.

  65. abc-looks like a shakeup for sure, hillary now giving the orders to advisors! interesting read to me. she wants to continue drawing ontrasts with barack.make them sharper. i still think she needs to do somethign dramatic, but her actions in nh are encouraging-this is hillary-a smart witty woman not constrained by overpolling. abcnews.go.com/Politics/TheNote/Story?id=3105288&page=1

  66. An unvetted Obama presents a substantial risk to the party and the country.

    A friend reminded me tonight of the Vanessa Williams, who became the first black Miss America. Shortly thereafter we found out things about background that were highly problematic. At that point, she was forced to return the crown. The institution as a whole suffered.

  67. I was going to vote for Edwards but the attack against HRC shows a complete lack of character that opened my eyes! If you are angry enough about all the Hillary bashing then write a letter or call the station or the sponsers of the channel that airs such pettiness. How ugly our political system has become after 14 years of GOP rule! Everyone thought HRC had lost her mind when she spoke of the vast right wing conspiracy but history has proved she nailed it. When I think about what HRC has had to put up with, starting with Newt Gingrich, and now the nasty attacks from Chris Matthews who is obviously obsessed with the Clinton’s sex lives and other things that are none of his damn business I’m very impressed with her perseverance and her determination to set things right with our country. I second the motion for her to forget about staying in the center of politics or pandering to the right – if she would just be herself and speak out for what she believes in, she will gain more power whether or not she wins the primaries or the election itself! She has shown so much grace under pressure which I know I wouldn’t have been able to do in her place. The constant petty attacks from everywhere; the female supporter of McCain asking how to “beat the bitch” and now John Edwards of all people adding to the chorus! It is unbelievable what these people will resort to and makes me wonder what is everyone afraid? What do they hope to accomplish through such childish behavior? Are they afraid she might win and show them all up? She has more class in her little finger than the rest have in their entire bodies!
    Motherbear | 01.07.2008 – 7:36 pm | #

    love this post by person on taylors site…

  68. so is this little teaser of the first returns, emblimatic of what we can expect?
    obama ahead of everyone 3 to 1?

    even in a teeny little, possibly back wood place?

    hmmm

    whatever, we go forward !

  69. I just didn’t believe that in a country as progressive as ours that misogyny is so alive and well. That young kids are able to express their most vile, misogynistic beliefs is testament to the fact that there is a deep well of misogyny in our culture. It is really embarassing. We cannot brush it aside as expressions of an extreme element in society. It is so much more than that. Hillary is in a unique position to bring this to the fore and help change attitudes. It is an uphill climb and it is a difficult task and I appreciate the fact that Hillary is willing to take this on.

    She has been the poster girl of misogynistic attacks for years and it is quite appropriate that she becomes the next POTUS. It would be much more transforming and symbolic for her to win than it would be for Barack.

  70. SKM12: when it comes down to what is bad for this country I agree the vrc is bad but is big media really any better? As that wack job Dobbs would say two wings of the same bird.

    As far as Edwards is concerned your newfound concerns about his integrity are well founded. Didn’t it make you sick to see him go into that little rehearsed script about how he and Barack represent change, and his number 1 an 2 in Iowa prelude to he tarzan me jane (VP), made me think of BMerry comments on point.

  71. Quiz == who said this?

    “”You know, this is very personal for me. It’s not just political it’s not just public. I see what’s happening, and we have to reverse it.””

    Edwards at the NH debate talking about his family working in a mill?

    Obama talking about civil rights history?

    Great! passion, involvement, sincerity!

    Hillary talking about what the GOP is doing to the country? — Naw, that’s just ‘campaign grind’ getting to her.

  72. Did you notice how many times Matthews told Hillary: ” I am not obsesed with you”? I counted 4. It appears he is obsessive toward her even in his denials. Please pass the prozac.

  73. For years, I have never understood the level of animosity felt against Hillary. The Republican attacks do not fully explain it. Her personality (at least to me) does not (or should not) invite it as anyone who’s actually seen her even on TV can attest. She’s very warm and engaging.

    Now I know. A big part of it is misogyny. It’s the belief that competent women are cold – that strong women are bitc#3s. It explains a lot to me.

    The way forward is clear. It’s clear that the next part of the journey will be more difficult that what I imagined it to be. It’s clear that contrast ads on rhetoric vs. action and ads directly (not subtly) appealing to female voters would be a very important component of the campaign, henceforth.

    I believe that in the end, even the kids will realize that it is not “cool” to pick rhetoric over action no matter what the gender of the person using inspiring rhetoric is and the gender of the person with the most accomplishment. In the end, even the kids will realize that “Talk is Cheap” no matter what the gender of the person talking or how rich his baritone is.

  74. andrui.. dont kid yourself when it comes to womens rights, america is WAY behind europe, asia and even canada. a lot of countries have provided equal rights to women ever since their formation. infact, countries like india also have policy of 33% women reservations in politics for a period of 20 years for encouraging women in politics. America has a lot to catch up as far as women in politics and womens perception in society goes. thats an unfortunate FACT and untold story of great union of america.

  75. yes, but gladiatorstail – I’m of Asian heritage – and even if there are more far-reaching rights for women as you say in Asia, what’s culturally accepted is a wider gap between gender-roles. The U.S. confounds me because it’s the opposite – where culturally women and men perceives themselves as being closer to equal, that women have great opportunities, but it’s the statistics that really reflect the gap – 16% women in Congress…it’s unbelievable. Somehow women in America being given opportunity – rising to CEOs, getting good educations – have placated this current generation into a mentality that they don’t see the inequity – for me, 218 years of male Presidents makes me furious; the Y generation, not so much. It’s confounding, and I think what is it that’s going to light a fire under women?

  76. Andruil919: if the sexist tactics of Big Media are proven to work in the context of this campaign then it is inevitable there will be more of it throughout society. Those women who condone it or practice it in the context of a political campaign have no equitable right to complain when it happens to them, or those they know.

  77. The most telling example of this sexisim is the way everything Hillary does is under the microscope, every time she does well they say the glass is half empty, and every time she shows that she has far more competence than her male counterparts they call her angry, feisty or something like that. Again, if it is shown to work in a political campaign then there will be more of it throughout society.

  78. Good morning, Hillfans. Here comes the morning rant before I shuffle off for a very long day of GOVT.

    wbboei, in the U.S., the subjugation of women is directly linked to our traditional religious beliefs whether you are a fundamental Baptist, evangelical or Catholic. This is why black men got the vote and engaged in politics decades before women. In the black community, whether it is the AME, CME, or other protestant fundamentalist churches, it is the institution of the church that has historically served as the backbone of the black community. For the longest time men dominated there, as well. Another time, if you’d like, I can expound on how white America has managed to destroy black America (something BHO knows nothing about, trust me) by destroying the community function of the church and how government mandated bussing managed to finish the job.

    For the white community, it is curious that many colonists emigrated to North America due to religious persecution but then immediately set up governance based on the church as the backbone of society. The intolerance of the church in New England gave us the horrible era of “witches” (predominantly women and the few men who fell under their “spell”). The intolerance between members of various church groups caused a splintering within congregations and the lateral emergence of “new” congregations. Today, churches in all denominations have a government-like heirarchy dominated by men.

    At all times women were to submit to the guidance and wisdom of men. Unfortunately, not much has changed. Today, we don’t burn or drown or imprison witches. However, we do still, as a society, expect women to both know and keep their place.

    Just look at how many women, even though they vote alone in a private booth, will still not think beyond or vote beyond the dominant males within their circle.

    Does this apply to all women? Hell, no. But remember what Steinem, I believe it was, said — the older women become, the more activist and determined they become to exhibit their own power. Just look at all those women in their 80s and 90s who are backing Hillary. They’ve waited long enough for a woman to break rank with the status quo.

    Hillary is NOT, regardless what BHO and JRE would like to think, the status quo. In reality, they are — men running a “man’s world”, no woman need apply.

    Done ranting.

  79. Hi, Folks! My thought on Hillary is that no matter what happens today, we’re on to Michigan, Nevada, and Florida with a sling shot into February 5. I think South Carolina might be a waste of our time. I donated to Hillary’s campaign after Iowa, and I will send her some more tomorrow to let her know I am still on board. Incontrovertibly, we need some wins, but this puppy is not over by a long shot. I haven’t been around because of some health issues. I may have a surgery on Friday, so don’t take my silence as a lack of love.

    I have grown truly bored by the masturbating teenagers at daily kos. I have been very grateful this campaign season to learn there is blogoshere outside of dkos.

  80. At 3 am, even before I was up with the brain in overdrive, Taylor Marsh cites Christopher Hitchens on BHO’s stump style as being “unmistakable, with his rhetoric inspiring, .. a ‘tsunami of drool’.”

    Hitchens: slate.com/id/2181460

  81. DailyKindercare has turned into teenybopper central. It is TigerBeat.com, and most of them can’t spell, nor put a coherent sentence together. It is truly sad what Markos has let that site become. It had such great potential to be a force for good at one time.

  82. goodmorning hillfans!!! just got home from work. we had a callout so i thought i’d be stuck there but i managed to get out on time. ready for the vote. im going to ignore the final polls and hope there is a hidden vote ot last minute surge for out girl. anything is possible hillfans. also seeing out girl get emotional made me emotional. i don’t know why some nutcases think she is a robot becuse she is human too. and that f*ckin edwards made a cheapshot about we need a strong commander-n-chief after asked to comment about hillary showing emotion. that was the lowest thing yet. at least obama did not stoop that low and believe me he made some lows also last year.

  83. Picked this link up from comments at TM:

    “Mrs. Clinton retains resources for the long haul whether she wins New Hampshire or not. Her goal is to tip the psychology of the electorate itself — from an exuberant call for change to the sober scrutiny of a potential president. Her campaign’s high command faults the news media for failing to make that happen so far, but it views such a pivot as unavoidable if Mr. Obama wins here.

    “But, said Carter Eskew, a longtime adviser to Mr. Gore who is supporting Mrs. Clinton, there is a long haul between Tuesday and Feb. 5. ‘Once you get out of Iowa and New Hampshire,’ he said, ‘you end the protest phase, and you start to enter a phase where people say, ‘This is decisive.’”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/us/politics/07web-harwood.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1199793942-66FPCz6ddrYCKItM8y6Mcg

  84. I don’t have an opinion about Penn since I don’t know much but going forward she needs a really good speech writer and a coach on delivery. Stay away from big words and loooong sentences and a laundry list and cut down on the details/specifics and start every rally why she wants to do this (the emotion that came through in the cafe without the voice cracking — it is ok to show some disdain, disbelief and pain at the prospect of these pretenders gaining ground who can’t match her intellect nor the country’s needs; they have not spared her their disrespect, derision, and arrogance). I watched her Manchester rally last night.

  85. BTW, please do not think that my comments on the teenyboppers at DK are anti-youth. I have 2 youth of my own! I have found that most of the young people supporting Hillary and Edwards are doing so for good solid reasons that they have thought about thoroughly. I find an alarming number of the BHO youth to be rude, nasty, remarkably ill-informed, and juvenile in their attitudes. And DailyKindercare has been swamped with them.

  86. Just some information…The Washington Post is reporting that the Culinary Workers of Nevada are going to endorse Obama on Wednesday. Those of you with an understanding of how that union works in Nevada can perhaps sort out how that impacts the race there. I know there is also a large population of Hispanic voters in that state and they are pro-Hillary.

  87. Please, please, PLEASE absorb this and ingrain it into your soul:

    We’re going to be the nominee of the Democratic Party,” said Clinton Campaign Chairman Terry McAuliffe.

    McAuliffe told CBN News that despite rumors saying she may have to get out of the race if she loses here, McAuliffe says it’s not so and there is no panic whatsoever.

    “She doesn’t panic. What you have sometimes that is bothersome is maybe some people who are not in the campaign but on the purview of the campaign. To show they’re in the campaign they call all the press and tell them what’s happening — when they really don’t know what’s happening.”

    http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/299656.aspx

  88. Ah, yes, Hillary’s campaign office workers here were actually held hostage. Not to be outdone, a BHO campaign worker has this story to tell:

    “A Barack Obama volunteer called police at 6:36 p.m. to report that a voter he’d called to tell about Obama threatened to shoot the volunteer and blow up the office. The volunteer was advised by his supervisors to evacuate his Winnie Lane office. Police were unable to contact the voter.”

    Really? Was this an auto-dial call? Any details?

    http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20080108/COMMUNITY/640772675
    —-
    Then we have the anti-abortion demonstrators last night. Taxpayers have been funding BHO’s Secret Service detail for months due to alleged threats. Anybody getting the picture yet?

  89. I read another article today that was taking Hillary’s campaign to task over their vetting of Obama saying that they have been sending items to the news media but nothing has been very serious in nature…

    What a moron…. first of all, I don’t think team Clinton would release the biggest stuff on Obama (which there is plenty of) all at once. This will all come out as she makes her case to the American people heading to Feb. 5. Second, just because the reporter doesn’t think something is significant doesn’t mean that it isn’t, especially to voters looking at Obama with a critical eye.

    Just another example of the Obama worship going on in the media….

  90. Awake people, try to call into C-SPAN and make your opinion known about our gal. Our geographic diversity should help get more of us on the show. Undecided voters in NH are watching to decide on how they will vote:

    Support Democrats:
    (202) 737-0002
    Support Independents:
    (202) 628-0205

  91. Ah, the sun is coming out and it looks like the Hillary shovel and salt brigade won’t have to dig out too many voters. It is already 40 degree-ish and is supposed to zoom up to 50 or more. Our GOTV folks are ready to rock and roll!

  92. BTW, I won’t be back here until this evening unless I take a very short break today. I was watching late night teevee with Craig Crawford on the phone on a show and he said what I thought was the most amazing thing … it’s up to Hillary to vet BHO, it’s Hillary’s job! AND … she should have done this already!

    Say what? Tells you everything you need to know.

    Is this the deal? MSM isn’t going to lift a finger to do the job just so that finger won’t be pointing back at them as the big bad guys who exposed BHO’s BS?

    You know MSM would MUCH rather Hillary, for better or worse, take the blame. Then, they can stand back and say, hey! we’re only telling you what Hillary said. Taylor Marsh had the “source” thing down pat yesterday. Now somebody needs to pick up on this disgusting aspect of MSM’s mindset.

    Tell me again what they’re getting paid for?

  93. A woman just said on C-SPAN that on the Jim Lehrer show it was discussed that the reason HRC is vilified is because Bill Kristol came up with the idea of making her into the “Wicked Witch” to take on Bill Clinton.

    She said that she was an AA woman and nurse and that when Michelle Obama said that AA needed to vote for BHO because he is AA that it disgusted her.

  94. The effect is electric, but short-lived. That is because Dianafication is essentially empty, amoral, untruthful and manipulative; eventually voters see through it and realise they have been played for suckers. But while it lasts — and it creates presidents and prime ministers — reason doesn’t get a look in. Warm fuzzy feelings win hands down because they anaesthetise reality and blank out altogether those difficult issues which require difficult decisions. Obama appears to be on the wrong side of just about every important issue going; indeed, were he to be elected president he would be a danger to the free world. But hey – the guy makes people feel good about themselves; he stands for hope, love, reconciliation, youthfulness and fairies at the bottom of the garden.

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/436296/princess-obama.thtml

  95. b. merryfield, god luck on your gotv efforts. i feel bad i am unable to get time off work or financially make it to help out in nh. i did get a call from hillary’s nh office, but i told them i give each month as much as i can automatically and spread hillary’s word.

  96. Guy on C-SPAN was talking about friends of his voting in the Democratic primary for Obama because they think he would be the easiest to beat in the general election. It was at 8:19 AM. If someone can clip it to Youtube, that might be helpful to the campaign. I’m a little too busy today to do this.

  97. B Merry how true. The Mea culpa is probably already written and pop out later. We have seen this movie many times. Here is well researched article “Barack Obama Inc: The Birth of washington Machine” published in Harpers Magazine last year. I wish people read it lots of material:

    http://www.harpers.org/archive/2006/11/0081275

  98. kentucky, that is what sums up the 2 first open contests. in iowa and nh, there are naderites, hillary haters, and gop voters all registering dem at the last same day to vote against hillary to create mischief. we saw this coming long ago. that is why it is so important to get to feb. 5th. most of those states are “closed”primaries. less chance for the gop and haters to hijack the primaries.

  99. wtf is having a democratic primary when these clusterF*ck states allow ANYBODY to vote in either party. i thought dems supposed to decide who should be thier nominee, not ant-hillary iodiots and lazy so called fake students who will not register in and vote in thier own states while school in the primary state is NOT in session. that is legalized vote fraud.

  100. Admin, Am I being censored. After I submit my comments they just disapper. I do not understand because I am not saying anything controversial.

  101. clintondem99, i do know hillary’s official blog censors me and im not nearly as controverial there as here. i have posted several things that were very mild but never get posted on hillaryclinton.com. oh well. i doubt it happens here.

  102. Good morning everyone. It’s a new day.

    I know it’s a long short but is there anyone that thinks HRC has little chance of winning today? I am watching the cable news channels and they are talking about how Obama is going to win by double digits. Is there no hope for Hillary in NH?

  103. caroline,

    I don’t expect for hillary to win but I am expecting for her to lose with single digit and that will be good news for us

  104. im staying away from the cable national news. i get most of my news from here and other online venues. my head will explode if i hear one more pundit declare hillary dead after just 2 primaries.

  105. there might be a last minute rush for hillary to make it “respectable”. lordy, what a boost if she make it within a few points if she can’t outright win it. the expectations of obama winning big is so great now. big media really built him up so much, if he falls on his face it would be priceless.

  106. Caroline, I think she would be very close if you count only dem votes. When you count the so called indys and rethugs IMHO it would be in the sigle digits.

  107. I dont know if anyone else feels the same way but I absolutely loathe Bill Richardson now. His backroom deal with BHO was the main reason why that margin in Iowa turned out to be what it was and created that narrative of the “surge” of BO’s campaign and resulting momentum. But whats done is done. Lets just wait till Feb 5 – I have no doubt that the campaign is going to leave no stone unturned to pull it off .

  108. well i have really nothing to do but surf the net on news. im going to knock out around 1pm. and beware of the stupid EXIT POLLS!!! does anybody remember election day 2004? my god ,it had john kerry winning both florida and ohio.i was excited until 9pm when it was clear idiot bush was winning both states. he won florida by 5 points but lost ohio by 2. hillfans do not put a damn thing on these exit polls. i was burned believing them in 2000 and 2004. hell, iowa’s first entrance polls were wrong too.

  109. dt, same here. he was winking at hillary and stabbing her in the back at the same time. richardson should get his unelectable *ss back to his job as governor becuase he is wasting his time running in nh.

  110. Bush would’ve won handily IF his problem with alcohol in collage hadn’t come to light. Now lets imagine in the GE that BHO is the nominee, and that the Republicans hit BHO on his drug use…

  111. bloomberg is looking more and more like a candidate for 3rd party. i get a kick out of his acting coy about it. him having this big pow wow in ok with dem and gop elders. yeah right, he looks like a candidate to me and acts it too.

  112. How is media able to convince people that it is all over after primaries in two small states? What is it in the American psyche that accepts such an irrational and illogical argument?

  113. Clintondem99, the average person depends on the media for their news. Thus, they can’t tell if the media is spinning the story or not.

  114. Is anyone here old enough to remember the coke commercial where different people gathered in a foeld to sing ” I’d like to teach the would to sing in perfect harmony…” Well this is what the obama campaign reminds me of. When you look past the initial fluff (speech) there is nothing there.

  115. yup, anbritt. or worse singing kumbyi my lord kumbyi. i was a toddler at the time but some time in the eary 70’s. and too preachy also.

  116. anbritt, I remember that commercial! Hope for hope for hope. Just meaningless jibberish. If that is what the public wants may be that is what we should give them.

  117. The final polls show Hillary losing by anywhere from 5 to 13 points. I would be ecstatic if she loses by single digits but I’m not expecting that. At least a second-place finish by her would make Edwards less viable.

    BTW, check out this article on pollster.com. It says voters’ negative statements on candidates are more influential than ads.

    In an op-ed in Sunday’s New York Times, Democratic pollsters Mark Mellman and Michael Bloomfield presented survey data they collected in Iowa recently showing that “what people say to one another can be as potent as what TV advertisements try to make them think.” They found, in particular, that voters who transform themselves “from mere ‘talkers’ into advocates” were particularly important to the Iowa candidacies of Mike Huckabee and John Edwards:

    Whether by chance or design, such citizen advocates created the explosive growth in support for Mike Huckabee and sustained John Edwards, even as both were vastly outspent by their opponents.

    Our polling found 23 percent of Republicans were advocates for Mike Huckabee as against 16 percent for Mr. Romney. At 30 percent, Mr. Edwards had the most word-of-mouth advocates among Democrats by a narrow margin, which explains how he was able to remain competitive in Iowa despite his financial disadvantage.

    Tonight, a special bonus. Mellman sends along a PDF release with results from two new, just completed surveys of likely Democratic and Republican primary voters in New Hampshire. Some highlights:

    Now, in New Hampshire, it is Obama being further buoyed by the greatest net positive talk—23 points more than Clinton and 11 points more than Edwards. Clinton continues to generate significant negative comment. Indeed, almost 70% more Democratic primary voters in New Hampshire are speaking ill of Clinton than of Obama or Edwards. […]

  118. you know, in my african american family there are 10 eligible voters, including my soon to be 18 year old daughter( she has sent in her provisional registration form)( on the 16th she will be 18) only one person is voting for obama. my younger brother. He really can’t tell you why. Everybody else says he won’t win. But, he is a phenom right now. I am sticking with my choice of Hillary. I don’t care if everybody else in cali votes for him, she WILL get my vote!!!!!

  119. When more information comes out about Obama let us not forget his prior statement to the effect that he has been vetted. That statement could then be interpreted by rational voters as an attempt to suppress futher investigation, depending on what it is.

  120. And, yes, Carville needs to be brought on board. That would reassure her supporters, including her congressional endorsers and big donors, and prove she’s capable of making the kind of major correction needed. The status quo is not working. Penn can stay as a pollster, but his cautious approach has been an enormous mistake. Carville is aggressive, and that’s exactly what we need.

  121. Astrology update:

    Barack Obama’s stunning victory in Iowa was celebrated across the nation as a genuine embrace of change and hope, the two keywords in Obama’s campaign. The unexpected turnout of young people and independents will likely repeat in New Hampshire and South Carolina, giving him tremendous momentum as we head into Super Tuesday. With the Republicans in disarray, Obama is currently the favorite to become America’s next president.

    The only major aspect to Obama’s Leo Sun (August 4, 1961; 1:06 pm; Honolulu, HI) is the square to Neptune, which infuses his leadership qualities with vision, hope, and the quest for something better. Since his Neptune is located at 8º Scorpio—exactly conjunct the U.S. Scorpio Ascendant—he becomes the perfect screen for Americans to project their highest ideals and expectations.

    Obama’s Uranus at 25º Leo is exactly opposite the U.S. Moon (orb 0º13′), an electrifying connection that promises radical change. Under ordinary circumstances, this opposition would be too radical, but the mood sweeping the nation indicates people are looking for a dramatic clearing from the past. Hillary’s Uranus at 25º Gemini merely trines the U.S. Moon, which also promises change, but without upsetting the status quo.

    Obama’s progressed Moon is conjunct Jupiter on January 20, so he should continue to do well throughout January. Then matters shift, as Mars turns direct and Mercury turns retrograde at the end of the month, in preparation for Super Tuesday on February 5. At the same time, transiting Saturn will be conjunct his Pluto, the ruler of his chart. Practical Saturn brings unreasonable hope back to earth, testing Obama’s statecraft, his ability to work the levers of government.

  122. Goals;

    Get through today. Get a win in Michigan. Get a win in Nevada. Be competetive in SC. Win in Florida.

    If we can approximate the above, we will be in great shape for Tsunami Tuesday. NH polling (ras) Bodes well for Hillary as OB’s lead fell and the republican race is considered too close to call. The more indies who go for McCain or Paul, the better the outcome for us. After the way BM has been touting the groundswell of the OB movement, anything less than a stunning victory can be viewed as failing to meet expectations.
    I’ll go so far as to say that anything less than a double-digit win for OB and a majority of democrats in his column can be viewed as a comeback for our girl, as it is now OB who is subject to the expectations game.

    I predict that OB falls short in both categories. He won’t win by double-digits and he won’t snare a significant majority of democratic voters.

  123. This Obama thing is like a cult, people who are for him really can’t tell you why. Just that they like him. Going to be funny to watch when the balloon bursts and everyone shakes their heads saying “What was I thinking”
    The Republicans have something on him and that is why they have been pushing him for months and now they are getting worried that they made a mistake. They better get whatever they have on him out there soon. Otherwise the entire country will get caught up in this wave and there may not be many surviors…

  124. Just listening across the room as one of my male co-workers bashes Hillary and says she’s finished. I like the guy, but his blatant sexism is pissing me off.

  125. I hear from some of the so called independents that they would either vote for Mccain or BO. Two candidates who could not be more different. How could that be a choice?

  126. clintondem99-

    That’s why these two contests (IA and NH) really don’t mean as much as BM makes them out to be. Their earth-shattering significance will recede rapidly in the face of the rapid-fire contests to follow, and a win in Iowa won’t seem so large when we take Michigan’s 128 delegates and BM has to start posting the delegate counts. Iowa’s 16 OB delegates and all TWENTY-TWO (lol) NH delegates, if not BM’s overheated rhetoric, overplaying their importance will seem a little silly and somewhat irresponsible by then…

  127. Last year I wrote a book on executive leadership, and described Hillary at some length as one of the three world class leaders I have had the honor of meeting–the kind that comes along once in a generation if you are lucky.

    I mention this only to point out that the courage and leadership we are seeing from her right now in the face of adversity is precisely what the country needs to solve the problems we face.

    Can you imagine how Obambi would react in similar circumstances? Yes, he is a messiah–a transcendent force. The only thing he lacks is experience, judgment and moral courage– plus whatever other deficiencies a thorough vetting will uncover. Bottom line: he is no leader.

    Big Media should be in front of the ass
    kicking machine for letting the guy get this far. This is not some rock video we are talking about here–it is the future of this country.

  128. Dick Durbin alludes to pending endorsements from the senate for OB, who leads all candidates in rumored endorsements. Hillary only has actual endorsements…

  129. TheRealist, In every interview our folks do with the media they should be pointing out the delegate count. I do not see them doing that and it is frustrating.

  130. The delegate count favors Hillary, and therefore does NOT fit the current narrative of her campaign being on the precipice. The story is OB’s rise and anything that doesn’t fit that narrative, and trailing the delegate count surely doesn’t, is omitted. The only way you’d see a delegate count story this week would be if a super-delegate defected to OB.

    WE should be posting and keeping count, because we KNOW (Hi Ben!) that BM is watching US.
    Best (most recent) superdelegate count from the AP
    Clinton leads with 160, compared to 59 for Obama and 32 for former Sen. John Edwards.
    You can understand why BM wouldn’t want to promote the fact that Hillary has almost THREE TIMES as many committed delegates as OB.

  131. Bloomberg running will not hurt Hillary, he has a history of sexual harassment that has just been poohpoohed because there was no need for it to be out in the open; he will steal the spotlight from hussein (if he’s still the flavor of the month by then) and guilliani; one good thing going for him is that he can spend his own money so he does not need to be politically correct at all. on the other hand, people will realize that after the Supreme Court handed the 2000 pres. to Bush, this time around somebody is buying his own election?

  132. # clintondem99 Says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 11:29 am

    TheRealist, In every interview our folks do with the media they should be pointing out the delegate count. I do not see them doing that and it is frustrating.

    i think that in a way, it helps her to be the underdog in this race; the “inevitability” blahblah made her campaign so humbug and ignited the hatred from the haters…

  133. OK, I realize this needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but heard on the radio from a reporter at one of the precincts in Manchester. She said she has been polling everyone in line all morning as to how they will vote and the overwhelming majority said either Hillary or McCain.

  134. Don’t think this has been posted here previously;

    Monday, January 07, 2008
    The Hillary Comeback
    Posted by: Patrick Ruffini at 10:16 PM

    I’m not saying I buy this entirely, but let me play Devil’s advocate. Even if he wins New Hampshire as he seems certain to, I’m not sure that Obama has much better than even odds for the nomination.

    The key to this analysis lies in the Democratic calendar. From Wednesday morning until February 5th, the Democrats have only two delegate-awarding events: Nevada on January 19th and South Carolina on January 26th. Assume that Obama’s momentum hits its high water mark on Wednesday. He has to keep it up for 27 days under withering assault from the most ruthless political machine in Democratic history. And with an expected win in S.C., Obama can’t squeeze much more juice from the orange for the next four weeks.

    Unlike New Hampshire, Obama simply can’t ride momentum from state-to-state-to-state for the next month. There are 11 days from the New Hampshire primary until the Nevada caucus. Of all the early states, Nevada has been the most Clinton-friendly (though there hasn’t been any polling since early December). Four days before, a full week of settling out from New Hampshire, will be the Las Vegas debate, which will be covered as yet another make-or-break moment. It will happen during a lull in their calendar, so it will leave a bigger mark than New Hampshire’s drive-by debates. And let’s remember that the debates (with one glaring exception) have been Clinton’s strong suit.

    Nevada is also our first opportunity to see what a non-retail state looks like. It’s off the beaten path out West, so it hasn’t gotten as many visits as South Carolina. The population is highly transient, the core of the Democratic electorate is Vegas hotel workers, they haven’t had an early caucus/primary before, so the citizenry isn’t as inured in 24/7 presidential watching as IA/NH or even SC. Obama won’t be able to just turn on the charm here. Obama is at his height with highbrow voters and African Americans; Nevada has relatively few of each. Without any polling to go on, my instinct says these should be Clinton voters.

    Now, there is a chance Obama could tap into Hispanics, but he’d have to jump over Bill Richardson, who can be expected to run interference for Hillary.

    Why is Nevada important? Because I expect Hillary to make here stand there and practically skip South Carolina. She will have some time to right the ship during the longest pause in the calendar to date, the same way Bush had 18 days to avert disaster in South Carolina. These are naturally her voters. If she loses, we can start to talk about it being over. But not till then.

    Here’s how it could unfold. Hillary loses tomorrow night. Obama jumps out to a respectable 10 point national lead. The Clinton camp announces a big shakeup on Thursday, with an party old poo-bah brought in as “National Chairman” with day-to-day responsibilities. This is coupled with a new aggressiveness, with slashing negative ads that can work in drive-by states but couldn’t work in the living-room type atmosphere in New Hampshire. Hillary commits to a do-or-die strategy in Nevada, with the goal of racking up on one “W” before 2/5. She has a strong debate performance on the 15th. It’s a dead heat going in. Then Clinton narrowly prevails. The press starts writing the “Clinton comeback” and “Obama slips” stories. Obama wins South Carolina by single digits, but Clinton surprises and wins Florida’s beauty contest. Momentum is now back to an even keel and the national numbers are a dead heat. Obama remains strong in the red states and is guaranteed Illinois — but his states will be underrepresented in delegates. Clinton wins New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut — and it all comes down to California. Hillary narrowly wins there. With superdelegates, Clinton now has a not insignificant lead in the delegate count post February 5th.

    If the Democratic calendar were as compressed as the Republican one, or structured like the 2004 calendar with delegate events every week and Kerry emerging to make six Groundhog Day-like victory speeches in a row, Obama could bandwagon. But with the scarcity of events, and a potentially major stumbling block on the 19th, I’m still a little skeptical.

    I will leave with one final thought. It is rare in recent history that primaries are as linear as 2004 or how we expect 2008 to go. Momentum usually shifts (even Kerry had a little hiccup in Wisconsin). Early state shockers that seemed all-important at the time wear out as time goes on. And in Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama faces an opponent with an unusually deep reservoir of political skill and grassroots goodwill. His performances has been soaring at times, but it is also much more uneven. Historically, steady-as-she-goes is what wins primaries, not unevenness. He has had some cringe-inducing moments that displayed his unpreparedness (his terrorism answer in the first debate; his Bhutto reaction). One more and he could instantly validate the central Clinton critique of his candidacy. It seems doubtful that he will not be tested before February 5th, and he has very little margin for error.

    The above is a somewhat old school view of the primary process. It assumes 2008 unfolds somewhat the same as past primaries. But rules work, until all of a sudden they don’t. This could be a precedent-breaking year, like 1964 for the GOP and 1968 for the RFK Democrats. We could see something utterly remarkable happen: the hostile takeover of both parties by rejectionist forces from within, McCain-Huckabee on the Republican side, and Obama’s anti-Clintonism for the Democrats. If it did happen, it would signal that something dramatic has changed.

    But the cynic in me still says we have moments like this just about every four years. Until I’m proven otherwise, I’m not ready to write an obituary for “politics-as-usual” just yet. Hillary is down but not out.

    http://www.townhall.com/blog/g/47209d3a-dcce-4af4-9141-fbbb0e0c22f8

  135. at this moment, it is an urgent to stop the change moment and the moment can only be stopped if the radio start talking about the moment.

    talking about the delegates is not useful anymore because it could change quickly.

  136. TheRealist–what will be the effect of the culinary workers union endorsing obama on wednesday, as rumored. Do you know anything about nevada. I know the polls are shifting across the nation, but, that is in relation to what is going on in iowa and nh. I think she has time to change things for super tuesday.

  137. What bothered me about the Richardson/BO back room deal is that it was intended to target increasing BO’s # as well as his… and taking out Biden while keeping Edwards/hillary even!

    Richardson’s rival was Biden!

    And now BO/ Richardson are together targeting the latino vote in all major states. This will happen even if Richardson drops out tonite. So this may be a key factor going on!

    Now deals can be made I suppose. It may be legal but it ain’t ethical!

  138. rjk1957 said:

    “They better get whatever they have on him out there soon. Otherwise the entire country will get caught up in this wave and there may not be many surviors…”

    That’s exactly the truth. As an academic interest only, I would say that the Republicans should mess him up now before he turns into a messiah. Then, face him in the general (heaven forbid) on the front of classical liberal vs. conservativsim. Liberals always lose on those grounds.

    Fox News Reporting: James Carville and Paul Begala are coming on board tonight!!!!

  139. This last week – and the media coverage – further evidence that the media should be reformed – they tore into Gore so much that the vote count was closer and easier to steal; their treatment of the Clintons has been appalling – and their echo-chamber effect is persuading people into a lemming mentality. It is no wonder that Gore started a TV station which is for citizen reporting – he hates the media, no wonder.

  140. Kentucky_mkt, you are so right. it is a real wave now. the network of radio talk shows have to start talk about this wave now.

  141. anbritt:

    How do you think black women in SC might respond to high-profile black women (Sheila Jackson Lee and Stephanie Tubbs Jones) coming out for HRC in SC?

    You know, I would love to see HRC win the nomination and select Shirley Franklin as her VP running mate. Screw BHO. That’s the thing that stinks about this whole thing. If Shirley was running against HRC and the race was like it is now, I’d probably be OK with everything. I kept thinking about that after reading the Steinem op-ed. It attacks my sense of promotional fairness I guess.

  142. meisingyu:

    That is the natural assumption/strategy.

    Bill R. can drop out and endorse BO… and then go after the latino vote. bill gets vp or better Sec. of state position.
    Bill R. always wanted to be Sec. of state – even under Bill C.

    And don’t forget; BO backs DLs for illegals; in NM, it was signed into law by Bill R that illegals can have DLs.

    this may alter many latino minds at least for now in the primary….do not worry about GE!

  143. carville needs to get in matthews face and the rest of the thugs at msnbc and other media outlets and demand thney ask the same questions of obama and vet him just like they have our girl

    people do need to know that obama is dangerous with his lack of experience in important issues.

  144. Fox News Reporting: James Carville and Paul Begala are coming on board tonight!!!!

    That’s excellent news. I’m not expecting them to be miracle workers, but they know how to win. I’m certain Hillary’s campaign will be vastly different because of that. Also, don’t underestimate the importance of having the story out there that Hillary is making big changes – not cosmetic ones; that’ll prove she has no intention of dropping out, too. So the “Obama is God” narrative won’t be monopolizing the news.

  145. The James Carville and Paul Begala news is great to hear! They are both tough and do not shy away from confrontations. Plus, they know how to win from ‘behind.’ I guess this means that Penn has lost his place of prominence, thankfully. (Let him play backup.)

  146. The benefit of Carville as spokesperson is that:

    1.) He can be angry and it’s funny. No one blames HRC for his outrageousness. But, her message still gets out. Tweety even laughs after Carville rants.

    2.) TV networks love having him on. That is why he still is always on the talkshows. And, he gets ratings.

    Conspiracy theory 101:

    Carville is married to Mary Matalin, who is a strategist for Fred Thompson. COuld there be a little strategy behind the scenes to boost both candidates and call of the truce for the GE?

  147. is she out stumping today? i think she should campaign till the polls close, it sends the message she is still standing and committted.

    i think if nothing else carville could get her message out while defening the blatant bashing and make people realize she is committed and still standing after the media unjustice.

    carville has a lot of credibility.

  148. Kentucky mkt: honestly, I don’t thnk it will matter. Those women are not very well known outside of their areas. That is not to say that people do not know them but that the average black person could not tell you who they were, imo. Just doing a check wih my family and friends, those who are politically aware knew who they were, but, those who are not, dod not know them. Also, you are dealing with the herd mentality and pride. Many black folks I know will say they don;t think he will be presdient but they are voting for him just because. One of my cousins said it best: ” he ain’t gonna win but I’m standing with the brotha”. Thats part of what I am hearing and its not a vote against Hillary as much as a vote for OHB. It is more from the younger set, also.

  149. If it’s true, I’ll miss you here, but I’m glad SOMEBODY was listening two days ago when I politely asked you to get up off your skinny Cajun ass and get this campaign back on the winning track.

  150. They have been reporting that Carville was going to join the team forever now. I will believe it when I see it.

  151. James Carville is coming on board the Clinton campaign as a “volunteer,” offering an assertive new voice in its chaotic internal workings and a new face for a campaign trying to change its story.

    Carville, a political analyist at CNN, received clearance from CNN executives before making the move, a source familiar with those conversations said.

    Per Politico.

  152. Good mornin’ Hillfans! It’s another day! I want to begin today with a big ole set of hoorays to honor those folks who are workin’ so hard to get our gal elected! Hooray for B Merry in New Hampshire! I know there are others on the ground there, I don’t know the names! But Hooray to you, too! Hooray to ADMIN!

    Hooray to Hillary! We love you and we ain’t goin’ nowhere! Yes, you are our girl and we are with you until the last…….well, dog dies, to borrow a phrase

    Hooray to Gloria Steinheim. If you haven’t read the NY Times piece yet, read it and send it to everybody you know! Hooray to Taylor Marsh! Hooray to Tom Watson for the excellent blog. If you haven’t read it, the link is above, send it to all your friends. Hooray to Colmes who, on his show last night, called dick (didn’t I see your picture on the cover of a tabloid) morris on his blatant SEXISM. Yes that’s right folks. I think it was Colmes who spoke the word SEXISM for the first time in connection with media coverage last night on the MSM.

    We have to pay attention to the meeting at U of Oklahoma yesterday. Not so much for bloomberg, yes he’ll run, but for those other men and women on the panel who were calling for substantive bipartisanship. the key work there is SUBSTANTIVE. they want plans…they want to hear specifics..they do not want to hear empty words or phrases or grandiose hooha. I hear a real opportunity here. Carpe Diem.

    HOORAY FOR HILLARY! We will follow you to victory! A second place finish propelled WJC to the White House in 1992. We will do the same! Let the hero worship die down. Dopamine highs don’t last forever. Go HILLARY GO!

    HOORAY TO ALL WHO SUPPORT HILLARY HERE! GO HILLFANS!

  153. HOORAY TO CARVILLE and Paul BEGALA…Tried and true WARRIORS who call it as it is! We been missin’ ya! Get out there guys and take on MSM. Call out the bigoted sexists! Call out the double standard! Call this freakin’ game and turn this BS of BHO around! Let Hillary’s message and her experience shine through. You know what to do!

  154. James Carville Emphatically Denies That He’s Going To Work For Hillary
    By Greg Sargent – January 8, 2008, 12:43PM

    Fox News just reported that James Carville and Paul Begala will be re-entering the Clinton orbit by coming in to work for Hillary as senior campaign volunteers as early as tomorrow — the idea being that they’re being brought in to right Ship Hillary in the wake of.her Iowa loss and possible New Hampshire one.

    The storyline of choice here, obviously, is that Bill’s Bad Boys of 1992 are riding back in to rescue his wife from electoral disaster.

    I just reached Carville on his cell. Here’s what he had to say about this:

    “Fox was, is and will continue to be an asinine and ignorant network. I have not spoken to anyone in the Clinton campaign about this. I have not done domestic political consulting since President Clinton was elected. I’m not getting back into domestic political consulting. If I do go back, it would be safe to say that I’m the biggest liar in America.”

    Asked if he knew whether Begala would be coming back, Carville continued:

    “To the extent that I know anything, as of nine this morning, no he is not.”

    Oh, well. There goes that narrative.

  155. Doesn’t mean it ain’t gonna happen, just means that for the campaign this is a truly inopportune moment to be announcing any staff changes.

  156. That Greg Sargent all the information he reports are always false anyway. I have to laugh at Carville’s statement if he did say that. I can just imagine him ranting lol.

  157. Interesting re: his denial because ABC on Taylor Marsh also reporting that Clinton herself announcing shakeup.

  158. clintondem99 — I think any post with an http:// in it goes through some sort of spam check before it is published. Maybe links that begin with www. go up faster.

    I go ahead and use the http:// and it usually goes up within an hour…? Hope this isn’t increasing the workload of someone up there, maybe I should leave it off?

  159. too bad. carville has the guts to tell the media where to shove it, do it in an effective way without blowback to her campaign.

  160. it does not bode well for the campaign anyway to announce him or begala coming on board at this time, means that something is wrong with the campaign. it’s all about projection.

  161. well this country had one president picked by the courts, the media is trying their best to pick this one by their brainwashing. Hillary is doing an awesome job and I hope she finds an effective way to turn the obama camp on their heads.

  162. just want to say how glad I am to have found you all – the wall of negative sound from the media, makes it very lonely and I wish and hope that more women can find such troopers to buoy our spirits.

  163. well you know what they say about the media, at some time they will decide to eat their young. obama better hide and i believe it might be sooner than what he thinks. if obama looks inevitable the media will perhaps decide to attach to him like white on rice and something will happen to trip him up. hillarys best chance might to become the old news .. take the media target off her back and give her breathing time and let obama take some of the heat.

  164. In a way, it’s a good thing. It would have played into the story of more of the same . . . I’m sure they have someone they are bringing in, but it will be a surprise and perhaps a lesser known to avoid making waves?

  165. here is another obama spokesman on msnbc. does hillary even have anyone who is out there on media talking her up. this was obamas foreign policy spokeswoman.

  166. A friend of mine sent me an email. He’s been looking at the daily numbers from the rolling poll in NH. He thinks Obama’s lead shrank dramatically in each day of their sample. Here are his estimates on Obama’s advantage in each day of the poll (the first number is the date of the sample):

    I crunched some numbers from Rasmussen, and came to the very
    interesting (and nice) conclusion that Rasmussen day to day numbers
    are a lot more favorable, rougly:

    Jan 4th margin=+10
    5th +14
    6th +6
    7th +1

  167. dot48, I’ve been amazed why Hillary’s supporters aren’t out there more vocal too – RFK jr. especially, but i think the underdog fight will be better. Howard Kurtz’ article that It’s All about Hillary is true – the media focus needs to off HER so she can get back to making her message sink in.

  168. So much for Carville. Damn! But John Podesta isn’t a bad choice, if that’s where Hllary is heading.

    As for the record turnout in the Dem primary, it’s probably not good news for us. Remember what happened in Iowa.

  169. hey hillfans, waiting with nervous jitters. i just saw that video of bill clinton turning up the heat. some young guy asked bill about mark penn’s memo about “what obama bounce?” bill admitted penn made a mistake and ran a laundry list of obama’s shifty iraq war stances and war funding.

  170. paula, not good news at all. gopers and ant-hillary voters causing mischief. not good at all. i can’t wait until we get to “closed” primaries.

  171. Maybe the big turnout is Hillfolks making the point that it’s their time to speak — finally. I know there’ll be Indies, but the Dems may make a big showing too.

    I like to be optimistic.

  172. Carville and begala may not be a good choice because they will be accused to be old and go back to 1990s.

  173. let’s not pin all of our hopes on begala and carville like the campaign is a sinking ship…they have to absorb this blow and regroup; she’s been through so much worse and she will overcome this.
    the more her campaign talks about obama – BELITTLE HIM – the more doubt will be injected into people’s heads. because the media will not do it for her, the campaign will do it. remember how he looked when hillary outed him and that other loser in the last debate – boy, they looked sooo small.

  174. No matter what happens in NH, I do hope that no one on Hillary’s local or national staff does what an idiot did here in Iowa after the caucus results were final.

    They should remember that BO got just over 36% of the caucus votes…that leaves about 34% over and above Clinton supporters that are open to decision change.

    The editorial in today’s DMR is not going to help as we move forward. Andie’s voice is a well respected one in this state.

    I still haven’t figured how to copy sections from one source to this comment space, so forgive me for the clumsy directions that follow:

    Google Des Moines Register caucus results and four pages below the colored results map on the left is the title “Caucus tune hits sour notes.” Click on ((more)).

    I am heartsick, and for the first time since last Thursday, discouraged.

    When this is all over, maybe some of us will have tales to tell about what went on between the different levels of campaign staff, paid and unpaid, party and local volunteers, etc.

    It speaks to the need for shakeupS, many of them.

  175. wait till she gets angry, that’s when she gets sooo good. hussein has belittled, insulted and mocked her in his campaigns for a long time – payback will be a bitch!

  176. Imagine44: she’s been through so much worse and she will overcome this.

    You can say that again, Imagine. She is a strong, intelligent person, who had virtually no time to prepare for the next challenge after Iowa. It will be okay. We are on to victory!

  177. Turns out only the Republican primary in California is closed, so if the Independents want to vote, they have to vote in the Democratic primary. Guess who the Republican-Leaning Independents would vote for ?

  178. About rumours of a deal for Richardson to direct his Iowa caucus people to go to Obama…. I’d expect that was more likely a scam by some Obama people. In the NH debate Richardson seemed to be defending Hillary — certainly defending ‘experience’.

  179. Emjay, Could you elaborate? I’m not sure what you’re getting at. I couldn’t find what you were referring to.

  180. joe friday, there’s still some time between now and the cali primary, who knows hussein’s bubble may have been burst by then? slowly you can see some people making arguments about him – who he really is and how dangerous will a smooth-talking asshole be in a new world? so, we will see…

  181. joe friday, you mean to tell me the indies cannot vote in the rethug primary but the dems? wtf is that all about? it should be both or none at all!! that needs to be looked at in cali.

  182. There’s a reason why a lot of folks are mad at Penn and it is because of this – he should have seen this coming.

    Everybody knew about how BO was organizing the youth vote – from facebook to college campus’s and IL students being bussed in and what have you. The fact that he was attracting new and young voters is not new. The alarm bells should have sounded when news about moving students from out-of-state started trickling out in Iowa. Added to the fact, that young voters in Iowa and NH dont really care about Hillary and cannot relate to the Clinton Presidency or her years as first lady and all the years of public service she has been involved in. They see a rock star who looks young and different from what they are used to seeing in politicians, gives all this flowery talk and thats enough for them. Competence and experience be damned.

    Add to this some independents who are smitten by him, republican leaning independents who think a vote of BO is a vote against Hillary, same day registrations and you have a deadly mix that is very unfavorable for her. The campaign should have let her be herself, take questions, be accessible and increased her visibility as much as possible.

    Its only when you have closed primaries on Super Tuesday where the dates for registration in most states are fast closing and independents wont be allowed to create any mischief will her chances brighten considerably. And I am still not giving up on NH. If she loses in single digits, its still not too bad for her.

  183. mark penn? WE all here seen this train wreck coming with this bussing in so called”students” and underestimating the indy vote(i call them political hijackers). the same crap is happening in nh.

  184. Great post DT. Once the campaign re-tools for Super Tuesday, things will be much better. And with Obama as the front-runner until then, he should FINALLY be vetted by the media.

  185. I agree with your analysis, dt.

    Also, Emjay, I just read that editorial. It reflects poorly on her and her campaign, absolutely. Anger is no reason to make dumb statements like that.

  186. Since canidates have agreed not to campaign in FL and MI, I wonder why the media has not been publishing recent polls from these 2 states. They are not bound by party rules and you can not tell me they have not done any. Makes me think they do not want to deflate Obama’s appeal to voters by releasing the results of these 2 big states.

  187. richardson is a failed overgrown bufoon. he should have ran for the senate in nm. then again udall is a great candidate.

  188. hillfans, mitt romney, mccain, and the rightwing radio are already starting to take apart obama. if obama thinks the gop attack machine is going tread softly on him just becuase he might dispatch hillary he has another thing coming. obama and his koolaid sdrinking supporters think the gop will wilt against his charm. what is he going to say to them in the general. “i beat hillary for you so now play nice”. lol, they will laugh at him and make the treament they gave kerry and dukakis look tame in comparison.

  189. imagine44,

    If this is about Republicans, or Republican-Leaning Independents, crossing over to stop Hillary, then they don’t have to like Obama to vote for him.

  190. Interesting Reuters article that explains what may be going on:

    MANCHESTER, New Hampshire (Reuters) – Voters are not turning their backs on Hillary Clinton because of doubts about a woman in the White House but rather turning on to the optimistic message of her rival Barack Obama, according to some experts on gender and leadership.

    The 46-year-old senator with his wife and two young children makes Clinton, a 60-year-old political veteran, seem outdated to some voters, they said.

    Clinton lost caucuses in Iowa last week to Obama and has seen her poll lead overturned going into Tuesday’s Democratic primary in New Hampshire, part of a state-by-state process by which parties choose a candidate for president.

    Victory in November’s election to succeed U.S. President George W. Bush would make Clinton the first U.S. female president after 43 male heads of state.

    But that possibility could be fading if primary voters opt for the promise of hope and change projected by Obama over Clinton’s experience and readiness to lead.

    Those issues rather than gender will determine whether the U.S. senator from New York and wife of former President Bill Clinton stands or falls, according to Naomi Wolf, author of the 1991 bestseller “The Beauty Myth” and other books.

    “None of the polling or the focus groups indicate that people are … (snubbing) her because she is a woman but because of a deficit in how she is projecting leadership,” Wolf said.

    “If anything, she is too entrenched, too competent a leader. She … has been on the world stage and people (voters) are sick of people who are … on the world stage,” she said.

  191. Eventually, I think voters will start looking more toward experience. Unfortunately, it may be after Obama gets the nomination, and then we’re screwed.

  192. new poll here in Oklahoma has Hillary leading Edwards and Obama……leading Edwards by about 6 points and BHO by 18!!
    edwards will not drop out because there is a chance he can win some southern states (even though he won’t win but one or two, if any). that helps us. BHO has to be far behind in several of the Feb. 5 states like Oklahoma.
    Hill needs to call a press conference after NH, making the media speculate on whether or not she’s pulling out, then give a speech about Democratic and liberal values much like Reagan did in 1964 about conservative values. as long as she doesn’t venture to the far left on national security, and well…as long as she doesn’t sound like a socialist, but talks about Democratic principles and how she’s been fighting, while others have been talking, how she doesn’t think Feb. 5 Democrats aren’t going to abandon their “girl” and how our conservative friends are wrong, dead wrong and how we must have a fighter, like her, to fight for Democratic principles….and while some people thought Reagan was too conservative in his speech in ’64, let’s realize this is a DEMOCRATIC primary, so that stuff would resonate with voters…just don’t say anything that could come back to bite you in the general election.

  193. I can’t get over these people who tell reporters they are voting for Obama. They claim he will bring the country together, and get beyond Liberal & Conservative, get beyond Red & Blue states.

    Do they actually believe the American RightWing will say… Oh, he wants to bring the country together, so we’ll leave him alone ?

    If Obama were to get elected, he would go in there thinking he’s Daniel in the Lions’ Den, but they will tear him to shreds. Then all these folks will realize he won’t be bringing the country together, but by then it will be too late.

  194. Paula, I think it depends on a new frame for her message of experience. I think I know what would work, in my opinion, but I don’t want to blab it here.

  195. I agree Paula, when they see the huge problems we have to fix, it won’t be about hope anymore, but “FUCK! we’re screwed and who can fix it? Not Mr. Hope”

    And let’s hope JRE doesn’t drop out, he can take some states possibly, and deny Obama delegates. But let’s not push this line too hard before JRE realizes it, though I don’t think he cares about the values he talks about, just winning, so I doubt he’d drop out to help Obama.

  196. You know what my worst nightmare is (apart from BO being nominee) ? If he chooses that smarmy prick John Edwards as his VP. Personally, it will evoke even worse emotions than I get from watching Bush on TV before changing the channel.

    But of course I try to be optimistic by believing that will never happen. She’ll come back before they know whats hit them. There, at least it makes me feel better 🙂 !

  197. what i’m saying is, there’s a lot of things that can happen between now and the cali primaries, he will be deflated by then; the thing with his campaign is this: hype up a “new politics” bs while slaying his enemies – all be damned while he smiles and talks bullshit (which morons love, by the way). people from other campaigns are slowly paying attention because it’s not only hillary he is trying to damage but if they let him keep on with this bullshit, he’s gonna get to them.
    it’s all about self-serving politicians trying to kill the competition.

  198. let’s look at this from a racial perspective. let’s say BHO gets elected (by some miracle of God)…and turns out to be a bad president, in over his head and just a disaster….then this country wouldn’t think about electing a black man for another 100 years. they would say “we gave blacks a chance and they failed.”
    not a risk i’m willing to take.
    in 2016, he’d be wonderful. there would be no question about his experience. we would win in a landslide, providing that HRC was great in office.

  199. He’s a symbol of something bigger than himself. People are tired of partisanship, and they yearn for what Obama is selling. It’s all about hope, and that’s a powerful message.

    And the media’s not doing its job, so they’re not being told about the perils of believing something that has zero chance of happening. The hunger for change is a repudiation of Bush and politics as usual, with which Hillary is associated. Whether she’s make the best president is entirely irrelevant many voters in this climate.

  200. I mean Hillary is associated with politics as usual, not Bush, lol. BTW, Joe Friday, are those comments you’re hearing today from NH voters?

  201. and why the media is pushing BHO as the next JFK, i don’t know. IA and NH are very white states, but do we forget this is a LIBERAL PRIMARY?? Of course, THEY don’t have a problem voting for him!
    Republicans still have half the country and they’re not going to vote for him b/c he’s a liberal.
    But let’s think about this. ARE INDEPENDENTS REALLY INDEPENDENT? Or are they people who vote consistently for one party but are just independent “in name only?”
    Regardless, INDIES don’t like Hillary because she’s devisive. So they voted for BHO. And that’s basically how he won in IA. Let’s not forget that among Democrats, the race was within 1 point! Now the media is treating this like Dems have their new JFK. Um,….no. Indies just have a reason to vote against Hillary.

  202. FL will be an indicator (hopefully) to the MSM that HRC is the Dems choice, because FL is more diverse like the Democratic party. So even if FL delegates don’t count right now, it’ll send a message what the rest of the Dem Party is thinking.

  203. This message about bringing together red and blue through conciliation and partisanship is exactly what the left has been railing about – Reid and Pelosi are routinely castigated in the Leftistan Blogosphere for not taking on the republicans. And this phony is talking about bi-partisanship the same way as his buddy Lieberman is. Like, even today (was it), he couldn’t resist making a compliment to those anti abortion protesters at his rally.

    I bet you anything (not that I need to since everyone on this site will agree wholeheartedly!!) – this is exactly how he would govern – afraid to take a stand and afraid of confrontation. He will COMPROMISE and sell out if he has to – the guy has no principles, only ambition. And he’s never met a fight he didn’t want to duck. Leftistan (aka the left blogosphere with all those anti-Hillary big blogs ) is in for a rude shock when they see what their anti-Hillary vote has wrought.

  204. If Hillary’s message isn’t getting through MSM because of MSM’s mysogyny — then msyogyny IS a valid isse.

    It’s reasonable for someone to think, “I don’t care for Hillary’s positions AS REPORTED, but seeing how the media treats her, maybe her positions are in fact better than they’re being reported, so I’ll cut her some slack.”

    Or to think, “I don’t much care for Hillary but I’ll support her as a protest against MSM mysogny. They need to be taught not to treat women this way.”

  205. thank you, brich. he is the ANYBODY BUT HILLARY. it does not matter whether he is black or white (he is both), he is the anti-hillary of choice.
    and if you choose from among the ABCs, he is the better choice. and he projects a persona of greatness, a new inspiring tomorrow. a lot of people obviously are buying this crap.
    so it does not matter whether hillary is better at anything, her campaign should burst his bubble before he totally dominates the storyline.

  206. dt: I agree. Hillary says: you have to know when to take a stand and when to seek common ground. She has done this…a record of doing this. He is a notorious flip flopper and present voter. He won’t want to lose his Mr. Feel Good persona once he gets into office (assuming that is possible, which I am not ready to concede).

  207. How can BO unite when chances are he is resentful of powerful women. Everytime he mocks and demeans and lies about Hillary I think about this. MSM may well have taken their cues from him when they decided to trash Hillary.

  208. imagine44, I think he’s already dominating the storyline. I’m not sure what will bring him back to earth.

  209. and no matter how sickening this is to say, he is running a very good campaign. that compensates (and shelters) for the candidate who is so hollow…

  210. imagine44,

    if everyone pile on him and big media trash him every day, he will not run such a good campaign.

  211. Paula

    Do you know how to move that DSM editorial to this site? Have I seen purple links on your comments before?

  212. The narrative is not about issues but about feelings, and OB is way ahead in the “style over substance”, dept. Issues, programs and specifics will come to the front of the line again, and Hillary will dominate in an issues oriented milieu, but that won’t happen in the next couple of days, at least.

    In boxing, styles make fights they say, and the whole nebulous, “hope and change”, thing is OB’s style. Even when Hillary is doing well challenging these empty platitudes, she’s, “fighting his fight”, which puts her at a natural disadvantage. In a policy fight, which is Hillary’s, “style”, OB can’t compete and looks like the light-weight that he is.

    We will reach the point where the two will again be competing in a forum that highlights Hillary’s strengths, and the whole country will be paying attention then. When he is forced to fight her fight, she’ll clean his clock, and OB will have to HOPE that he has a CHANGE of undergarments, as Hillary beats the &^*$ out of him

  213. I agree, imagine44. He is running a fine campaign. He’s managed to get the media on his side while tapping into the discontent in this country in a big way. His message is aimed at people’s hearts and emotions, while Hillary is trying to appeal to people’s heads. Enthusiasm should never be underestimated as a factor.

  214. i don’t think it is americans want him as president as for msm to bring clintons to their knees in any way. obama is not what is really running this .. media has propped him up but his message will soon wear thin. this kind of surge can’t sustain. republicans are going to come after him, i am sure.

  215. Obama, GOP target

    Tony Rezko is scheduled to go to trial in late February…as the RNC helpfully alerts reporters.

  216. I would not underestimate him in the GE either!

    After today – anything may be possible!

    A lot will depend on who the GOP candidate is.

  217. let’s not blame the media completely. there’s enough blame to go around. and if he was not a charismatic speaker, people would not keep flocking to his events. to them, he is what they look for in a candidate: inspiring, rock star, celebrity, hip/now/happening.
    and everybody has let him do everything that he wants.
    he was underestimated.

  218. Hey HillLandRocks!

    Glad to see you here again. My throat is so sore I can’t swallow and dont’t feel like typing.

    Thanks for the link.

  219. my gut still tells me this is far, far from over and that HRC will be the nominee and the next president. I think the obama honeymoon is over after tonight. Media will look for a new story, Hillary will not be that story I don’t think tomorrow.

  220. MP

    Please read my entry at 2:08 pm. I am an Iowan and am a precinct captain.

    I brought it up within the context of an ongoing discussion about changes that might be need in the campaign, and stand by my intent.

    HLR did it bcause I put out a request to move it here.

    I know how hard it is to read everything here so that we have context. Everytime I’m off for a few hours, nevermind a full day, it feels like I’ve just gotten another Sunday New York Times, with ads.

  221. I do not believe you could counter hope by calling it false hope. We should offer some thing far superior “Sucess”. The argument should be “he offers you hope but I offer you sucess”.

  222. dot48, media will treat him as a hero except foxnews but most democrat don’t watch foxnews so it doesn’t help.

  223. see I do believe obama is offering false hope. there is, in reality, no change in washington. obama will disappoint if he becomes president. hillarys packaging i do not believe is the problem, it’s the media who have put a target on her back and poked at her till people start to believe the things about her. that is something that is just hard to fight and i think they’ll come up with a plan.

  224. “Hillarylandrocks:

    why are you posting such articles? we do not need them!”

    Hillarylandrocks:

    I would have to ask the same question.

  225. rickya: hlr did that because emjay asked her to. emjay was at the iowa campaigns and she knew what went on there but she did her work with such loyalty and fervor, not even a bad word was said by her.
    such loyalty, emjay. i admire you.

  226. dot48, I also believe that he is offering a fase hope. I do not think he believes in what he says. He says that because it sells.

  227. MP & rickya

    I would also point out that it was this morning’s EDITORIAL…in the paper that endorsed Hillary in wonderful glowing terms that we all loved, before the caucus. Note she was part of that editorial board the interviewed the candidates, and endorsed our girl.

    And they printed it on the day of the NH primary; not accidental I think.

    We should all be in learning mode, not denial.

  228. i don’t see why the article isn’t relevant. there is a fundamental flaw in the internals of her campaign IF that did indeed happen and those are the types of thoughts that one must keep to themselves…even if they think them

    just heard a report that Hillary feels the Iowa and now NH voters are rejecting her and that she’ll most likely take a couple days off to retool.

    carville and begala would have been a real get imo — carville more so than begala…but we shall see. nbc is breaking developments that she is making changes but begala and podesta have denied .. they don’t mention carville.

  229. Hillarylandrocks was posting the link Emjay wanted to post. Grow up guys. We have enough to deal with rather than attacking on of our own who has been here dare I say longer than many of you. And her grammar’s better, too. 🙂

    I welcome the newest Okie, Birch1985. Screw Inhofe. 😉

    This is a 50 state contest. Setbacks happen. The inevitability tag got our candidate bounced around a bit. good news- she has time to recover. Now that Bwak has that tag, he’ll be under a microscope. He won’t have time to recover.

    BTW- for those of us who have been here longer than the great polls of two months ago, none of us thought she’d do well in IA and were surprised when the numbers went our way. But seriously: did any of us think that would last given their open registration system, the stuff Celiff pointed out or the news about IL carpetbaggers? Seriously?

    BTW- why don’t we also spend some time pointing out Edwards barely placed second? I mean barely. Or that he is a complete poseur and a sexist? The posts today on his BS yesterday vs. Hillary can hurt him if we talk it up. Also, let’s start after Richardson. That SOB could hurt us with Hispanic voters in NV. If he dares. I mean dares come near us- carpet bomb him with all the bimbo stories that float around about him from time to time. I could care less if he’s SOS. I’d rather have Biden.

    I will vote for McCain if Bwak gets the nomination. Bwak is so wrong about IRG and Pakistan that he is dangerous. Not just stupid, but dangerous. At least McCain will protect our country. And if it’s Edwards- screw it. I’m moving to Mexico. I’m sure he’ll export my job there soon enough.

  230. OkieAtty: DITTO EVERYTHING YOU SAID! Good to have you here today. Want to hear about the conference.

  231. BTW- I missed the meeting yesterday. Between court and F-i-L’s bypass today, I was just too overloaded. Sorry, folks. But in case you were wondering it looks like F-i-L will make it.

  232. begala would be good because he will laugh at spin, so it gets “outed” as such; carville will attack with the fervor of a parent lion protecting his cub, so pundits would think twice before they flagrantly abuse her.
    my 2 cents: the abuse from msm, rightwing, farleftwing aqnd other candidates have gone on for such a long time because the campaign thought:
    a. it will just go away
    b. she’s leading in the polls
    c. people read fact hub
    d.

  233. I would like to add that BO support is 5 miles wide, and one-fourth inch deep.

    That’s why I mentioned in my 2pm comment that there is 34% loose change out there. We need to be picking it up as JE falters.

    My little place is filled w/ stuff from the closed regional office here that I will use all summer into the GE. It was just going to be pitched. And I’m still her worker. I can use it.

  234. MollyJ, I’ve hardly seen a TV save for 20 mins this morning as my hubby left for the hospital. I think it was live fed on http://www.koco.com and there may be a video still posted there.

    I love our candidate. She is real. She is smart and she is tough. She is not a cold-blooded shark like Bwak. And the thing about sharks is they have to keep moving. Break Bwak’s momentum- one big negative story- three small negative stories- caught with a live boy or a dead hooker and he’s toast. Edward’s is done and is just trying to eek out a survival strategy until February. He made a major faux pas yesterday in slamming Hillary- the MSM can do it bc they are not looking for votes, but he turned some folks off and betrayed the progressive ideology by being a prick. I’ll give Bwak credit- at least he’s a passable actor.

  235. The editorial endorsing her was before the caucus, and seemingly had little effect on the outcome. What possible effect or influence could an editorial in the DMR AFTER the caucus have? That they’re miffed that Hillary would try to minimize the impact of the results and question the process is par for the course and would have been the same tact whether the DMR had endorsed Obama or Edwards. That they would promote their hissy-fit over feeling like their importance was being dissed, while they were still in a position of relative relevance is also par for the course.
    I applaud all those who worked so hard against the elements, BM, and the forces arrayed against Hillary, and I mean no disrespect to your state or your efforts, but Iowa’s singular moment in the primary process has come and gone, and with it the importance and influence of Yepsen, the DMR editorial board and the paper itself in being relevant or in a position to influence the outcome of any current or future contests.

  236. Emjay- I love your gumption. That is awesome. It’s like you’re a boy scout- “always prepared.” 🙂 I had Bill’s stuff for years and years. Actually, I still have old Goldwater, LBJ, NIxon, Hoover buttons. Crazy stuff I find. Crazy stuff…

    MollyJ, thanks. You’ve always been awesome on here. Can’t wait till December next year and we can all do a “reunion” of sorts after we win the GE. Maybe in Vegas. I know this great place… out in the desert with plenty of room for the mothership to land. 😉

  237. Voinovich takes aim at Obama

    WASHINGTON (CNN) — Ohio Sen. George Voinovich, a key moderate Republican in the Senate chamber and influential member of the Foreign Relations Committee, scoffed Tuesday when asked if Sen. Barack Obama has the foreign policy chops to be the next president.

    “He hasn’t any experience in foreign policy. Give me a break,” Voinovich said of his colleague from Illinois, who also serves on the Foreign Relations Committee.

    Many people think it would be good to have “somebody that was of his background” become president, Voinovich said, because it would be a “good message in terms of culture.”

    But Voinovich warned “things are very fragile in this world” and “we’re pinned down all over the place. It’s not going to be an easy deal for our next president to come in and deal with these problems.

    “Between now and the election there are going to be many things that are going to happen in this country that will have an influence on people’s choice in terms of who the next president will be,’ Voinovich said.

    Speaking to reporters on a teleconference after a trip to some of the world’s hot spots in Europe, India, and the Middle East, Voinovich said Democratic Sen. Hillary Clinton of New York, and Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona, are the most versed candidates on foreign policy, while former Gov. Mitt Romney, R-Mass., has the best overall management experience.

    It was bad management that got President Bush into trouble, said the Ohio senator, who at one point blocked confirmation of John Bolton, Bush’s choice to become ambassador to the United Nations .

    “People thought he’d be a much better manager than he was,” Voinovich said of the president. “Even though he’s dedicated himself to management, I think some of the screw-ups that have occurred have really hurt him. A lot of Republicans are disappointed because they frankly thought he’d be a better manager.”

  238. IMHO, hillary was too cautious when she was in Iowa. Shw should attached BHO everyday untill caucus day. in that case she might not win nor BHO.

  239. TheRealist Says:
    January 8th, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    Taylor Marsh echoing my sentiments as to the current narrative, but disagreeing about the eventual turn-around…

    “Taylor Marsh LIVE!
    3:00 p.m. eastern – 12:00 pacific
    Missed the show? Podcast up soon.

    Republicans heart Obama. There are a couple of ways to interpret it. Pick one. But the stories of Obama getting closer scrutiny on his record are greatly exaggerated so far. Right now, this race isn’t turning on issues. The emotional connection is real. It remains to be seen if going forward it will shift to policy. I have serious doubts.”

    http://www.taylormarsh.com/

  240. Meiyingsu, you fail to realize Hillary and Bill have been playing elderstatesmen roles by protecting the party. Now that they see the party is being attacked from within by Bwak and JE, they will be in the role of protecting the party and will kick people’s butts from now on.

  241. Molly, thanks for the second.

    Okie, Okie…

    You should let us know B4-the-fact…I’m not really a prayer, too much Quaker-Unitarian in me, but do believe in the power of community spirit.

    And you have our pooled thoughts with you and F-i-P (I don’t know what that is, but obviously important to you, so is to me too.)

    We’ll have to find our Boren-Bloomie-Nunn info elsewhere. But send us the gossip about it anyway, as you hear it.

    Thanks for the defense.

  242. There used to be a rule that in a primary you don’t do something that will damage another Democrat in future general elections. I think that was one reason Hillary was very gentle with Obama earlier. He might be a good candidate in future after he grows up (and you try not to make enemies within your own party).

    But now…. If BO did get the nomination, the GOP would savage him, and he’d be branded a ‘loser’. Losing the nomination to Hillary wouldn’t be such a big deal

  243. OkieAtty, I hope they will begin attach both BHO and JE starting tomorrow no matter what the outcome of NH is ( lose huge double digit). we as normal people deserve to kow who BHo and JE wre.

  244. Emjay:

    Didn’t read your reply before sending my previous post.

    This has been the subject of my first post here: The abundance of negative articles about Hillary Clinton in a site that supports her.

    HLR,

    Forgive me for jumping in without waiting for a response.

  245. media on msnbc now asking what obama will do tomorrow to extend his momentum. told you the media is ready for a new face …. now is clinton time to get the momentum back. why won’t carville join I wonder?

  246. I wanted to regster my anger today at bill clinton. is he trying to sabotage any youth effort for hillary. we need young surrogates to talk to youth about obama-not a 60 yr old. this is bad and will play bad long term. im so sngry. this si hillary’s campaign-get him off the stage. im in it for her, not him. he needs tohelp raise money-she will need every dime now. as a young hillary supporter i want him off the stage. his attacks will backfire.

  247. Hillary, has to find some way to change the narrative. Right now, it’s all about Obama. I seriously don’t think that they announced or hinted at a Carville/Begala return. I think that this is just another example of reporters doing slopping work and not fact checking a story in the rush to beat other news outlets.

    Having said that, I heard Terry McAuliff on the Laura Ingraham show(by the way, she asked him to convey to Mrs. Clinton that she thought that she was being genuine yesterday). He said that it is false that the campaign doesn’t have any money. He said that they were smart and that they are pre paid all the way through Feb. He also said that they raised $1m since Iowa.

    I honestly don’t think that it does her any good to campaign in SC. I live in the south and I can just see preachers wanting to be in the spotlight inviting him to their pulpit. This is just another opportunity for him to give a sermon that the MSM will labor as ‘one of the best speeches of all time’. Her opportunity costs are diminished by trying to compete in a state where he has all of the advantages…The total registered democrats in SC is 50%, he will obviously get the best of her and according to polls, he has openned up double digit leads over her.

    Her time would be best laying the ground work in FL and her home states of NY, NJ, PA, Conneticut where I’m sure that he is also working in. She absoultely has to pour lots of resources in CA as this is the prize, over300 delegates. Work the colleges, capitalize on Mayor Villarosa for the Hispanic vote, work the retirees. Run negative ads, this is a big state and they can handle it.
    I think by now, she should be on ‘The View’, they love her especially Joy Behar. Don’t take these states for granted. Create your own story as the media has shown reluctance to do their jobs. I don’t think that she has a chance to win by not going negative IMO.
    I’m not sure about the whole FL dynamics as I think that the canidates
    pledged not to campaign. I’m just praying that her lost tonight is not a blowout.
    pledge

  248. There used to be a rule that in a primary you don’t do something that will eliminate another Democrat from future general elections. I think that was one reason Hillary is being so gentle with Obama. He might be a good candidate in future after he grows up (and you try not to make enemies within your own party).

    But now…. If BO did get the 2008 nomination, the GOP would destroy him, and he’d be branded a ‘loser’. Losing the nomination to Hillary wouldn’t be such a big deal, BO can take his turn later. Better for him that he gets vetted now (when he can back off) instead of in the 2008 GE. She’s still being very gentle, just talking about policy and voting record — not using any of the really scary ammunition the GOP will use from BO’s own books etc.

    The other part of not eliminating a future candidate — HIllary is 60 and Bill has heart problems. This may be the last time she chooses to run. If BO wins the nomination, we may lose the “2 terms of Hillary and 2 terms of Obama” that Steinem says we need.

    If Hillary wins now, she can help BO get the experience he needs (give him a suitable cabinet or ambassador post) and then endorse and help him win in 2016. It wouldn’t work the other way around.

    By running BO now we get GOP 2008. By running Hillary we get both: HIllary 2008, Obama 2016.

  249. Why would Carville want to put a strain on his marriage? He and Mary Matalin are happily married with 2 children. Yes, they are polar opposites in political terms and their back and forth banter on TV is amusing and sometimes heated. I believe she is involved with Thompson’s campaign. I can see why he wouldn’t want to add the strain of a presidential campaign to his marriage.

  250. OkieAtty: 🙂

    emjay — Did they shut down your field office permanently? Last I heard (1/4), we kept ours for the GE, although we did clean it out.

  251. i will make it clear to the campaign to infuse young minds into the campaign immediately to save her candidacy.

  252. Regarding Pres. Clinton, I understand his frustrations and I know how bad one feels when you are doing everything right, running a clean campaign but you’re being held to a different standard than eveyone else to your detriment.

    To that end, I’ve come to realize and he should to, that by playing into their narrative, he’s driving their nightly stories. ignore the media and go over them straight to the people.

    I have a feeling that some of the ‘rock star’ coating of BO will start to fade after NH as there is an 11 day window between now and NV although I wished that the time was longer. Is there anyone here from NV who can tell us what is going on there. I heard Tim Russert this moring say that the Culinary Union is set to endorse BO tomorrow and that that would hand BO 16k voters. While, I’m sure that some of their members

  253. con’d
    would vote for him, I can’t believe that all will. I hope that this works out for her. She needs at least one win between now and Feb5.

  254. OkieAtty, Glad to hear about your father-in-law. 🙂

    BTW, if Carville, Begala and Podesta aren’t joining the campaign, who the heck is? They need an outsider (not someone in the current inner circle) with a fresh perspective.

    I don’t want to be a wet blanket here, but there’s one thing that’s been bugging me. When the narrative started to turn against her after the Philly debate, there was no effort from her campaign to try to change it. We’ve discussed here many times why she lacked surrogates to aggressively defend her on TV. That just strikes me as the kind of thing you’d see with a rookie campaign, not one with all kinds of experienced people on board.

  255. A big ole mollyj hooray for Voinovich…hooray! Never thought i’d hooray for a repug but hell froze over last night anyway when the word sexism was said by a male on the MSM channel about another male’s comments.

  256. Meiyinsu,

    I agree. They have to have the guts to pull the trigger though. I have the tv off, is there anynews on how MCcain/Romney is doing? or Hillary?

    There was a report today of Edwards supporters refusing to shake her hand. I have no respect for his campaign. Also, I believe he was on network tv last night trying to backtrack his remarks after he was asked what he thought of her getting ’emotinal’.

  257. I don’t understand why Culinary Union choose to endorse now. Do they truely believe that BHO can win GE? Republican is in disarray now doesn’t mean they will definitely lose in GE. A lot of thing still can happen that can change everything.

  258. Last week I noticed all sorts of stories saying Biden, Richardson, etc. were throwing their support to Bwak. They all denied. Then today- Hillary’s broke, she’s firing people, she’s done after two states, she’s losing in NV, she’ll lose NV bc of the culinary workers’ union, she’s using 527’s to play dirty- ALL ON THE DAY OF VOTING IN NH.

    This is dirty politics with the MSM’s help.

    I’m fucking sick of where all this is coming from and this Tom Edsall guy needs to be fucking questioned on his unsourced story. Fucking asshole wannabe reporter on HuffPo. Oh, and Arianna, if you’re reading this you two-faced hag (and shitty actress to boot I might add), I hope you choke on it.

  259. I agree Tx4Hillary, Get Bill off the stage after N.H… Bring in some more exciting endorsers instead, I’m even tired of Bill, and I agree, I’m in this for HIllary, not Bill (though i love him)

  260. I don’t think it was a good idea to start leaking out strategy now and to basically telegraph that NH will be a loss – any rumors about cash flow, or staff changes, or skipping SC – are only going to spook NH voters today. If it’s the Clinton campaign, I would be amazed, if it’s drudge and huffpost spinning perhaps.

    It is a psychological game, and Obama has been good at taking advantage of crowds (bussed in or not) because he knows the camera’s on. Everyone needs to be mindful that people are voting and they will not vote for people who are already ceding.

  261. T4H, What did Bill say about youth voters? I saw the comments he made about the media but there was nothing in there about youth voters. In his interview on MTV a few days ago he said they made a mistake by not targeting them in Iowa. What comments are you referring to?

  262. Regarding Money?

    Raised $110m, have no net, have tens of million in the bank, raised $1.5mil since Iowa,money is not an issue.

    Regarding Pres. Clinton being angry at the MSM: he is rightfully angry at the MSM as is other people who like her but they are moving on, the press and everyone need to take a good look at who is going to be president as there are a lot of perils in the world.

    Regarding new people coming in: Would love to get Begala/Carville but lots of people calling up and giving advice to help Hillary as they love her and want her to win.

  263. BTW- atty buddy who just came back from NV says the only ads playing- Hillary and Romney. No one else. Her organization there is tight according to him and he dislikes her like crazy.

  264. agree about harianna .. she is two faced and a hag. I’ve lost respect for a lot of news media during the past two months. politics is a dirty business and the msm is hell bent on making the clintons pay.

  265. agreed – this thomas edsall guy on Huff is probably Drudgereport’s source too – jerk – probably some Republican,. I can’t even log into Huffpost anymore, they have driven away everyone who is NOT for Obama. The internet is the out of control rumor mill of the 21st century – the MSM is it’s echo chamber. Wouldn’t it be nice if journalists confirmed their sources anymore. This is SHIT!

  266. Bill is her husband and he is not going anywhere nor should he so all of you pissed off at bill for DEFENDING his wife are unbelievable.

  267. Ininla, they are planted stories. Unsourced rumors designed to spook voters.

    MollyJ- a gag shop or party supply should have nerfy bricks or you can to Michaels or Hobby Lobby type craft places and get upholstery foam. I do not suggest floral foam as it crumbles and must be vacuumed up.

    Tiburones, Hillary pre-paid thru February.

  268. there has to be an effective stragety. some political genious who supports Hillary has to have ideas. also fox news airing that a 10 point or lower loss will be a moral victory for clinton ….. per her campaign.

    wth are they ceding defeat … people are still voting. this just get stupidier and stupidier

  269. Sorry, re my post at 5:15, Terry A said that they had no debt not ‘net’ and that they are pre-paid up. At least someone is out advocating for her.

    REgarding Huffpo, I’ve stopped going there as I believe she is working actively to get BO elected. In fact, I read today that she was in NH at some BO function so there you have it. if you look at that site, over 3/4of the stories on the front page are negative Hillary stories so there you have it. There won’t be any positive stories there for her and if there are, it will be relegated to the bottom.

  270. bill didnt say nything neg to young voters-but a 60 yr old man lecturing young folks on obama is insane. the clinton camp said they are angry bill did this stepping on hillary’s already trying day. more hillary, less bill

  271. Yall politics is like the game of tennis. This one is goin’ to five sets. It is part skill and a lot of psychology. Don’t panic. Keep ur game faces on. Remember Hill’s expression most of the debate the other night? That is a no nonsense presidential game face. She needed to do some serious clock cleaning cause the msm wasn’t doin’ it.If the chair umpire is crooked you gotta throw a towel and kick a chair sometimes. That’s what 42 has been doin’. IT’s far more under control than yall think. That said, us folks in the stands can be pissed and we will. But our first obligation is to support our girl.

    I agree about hairyannapuffino. Got brains? Not!

  272. TheRealist

    There is an election, in this state at least, in nine months; and I have every intention of influencing every vote I can until Nov 4th.

    People who get dissed by a candidate, or a candidate’s spokesperson, tend to not have warm feelings about that candidate, or those who soldier on. That campaign person was not being negative about “the paper that iowans depend on”, she was being negative about the entire state, and in a personal aside, everyone who voted for, or worked for, Hillary. It is not sitting well.

    It is this kind of clumsy mistake everyone is talking about preventing in the future, perhaps with a campaign staff housecleaning.

  273. dot48, you are getting your information from Fox news? Can they name the source from the Clinton camp that said less than a double digit loss is a moral victory? I swear these pundits just throw stuff out of their ass and see if the shit flies.

  274. tx4h and other supporters. lets all calm down tonight and regroup later. we need bill. he is the most experienced statesman. he will win it for us. democrats almost each and every one of them have used him to get votes. he is a vote getter, not a vote loser. dont blame him.

    tomorrows media narrative will be hillary is burried. no one will care. she has to go on. she will go on. she will fight. its the future of the country. just listen to the emotional moment of hillary’s. its her passion to serve the country which should inspire us. not the blame game. we are in it for long haul and we shou;ld not panic. obama will not get there and if he gets there, we will have republican president, and there is NO DOUBT about it. whatever MSM wants to believe, bloomberg will take NY, CT and NJ away from us, maybe even MA. and rest midwest and south rethugs will romp all over.

    so she HAS to win and she WILL win.

  275. Fox has flahsing on their bottom screen that Clinton old advisers Begala and Carville may be coming in.

    This seems to contrast with their earlier denials. I’m confused.

  276. EXIT POLLS: GOP: independents are in ten GOP voters…many late deciders… McCain more electable than Romney…33% say economy is biggest issue followed by Iraq (22%) …. Democrats: 46% made up minds without last week.. 4 in 10 are independents…. HRC’s favorability: 73%; Obama’s: 84%; … 36% say economy is top issue….

    marcambinder.theatlantic.com/

  277. “I swear these pundits just throw stuff out of their ass and see if the shit flies.” LOL

    If this is true, they’re obviously trying to lower expectations. I know that doing this while people are still voting probably isn’t the best idea, but pretending the race is competitive isn’t either. It’s a tough call.

  278. OKie: Thanks for the hint about the nerfy bricks. I just bought a new tv so I don’t want to use anything that might shatter the screen temptin’ though it might be.

    Yall, we got to keep our collective girdles on. Read what Gladiator said about Bill and Hill. Hillary said, I’m in it to win. She meant it. We may have to do some fundraisin etc., but we ain’t gona lose this thing…the primary. This is one stinkin’ piddly ass state (no offense intended at New Hampshire) But, don’t make me put bill’s numbers up from 1992 in New Hampshire…they were that great a finish for 2nd.

    Polls close in 3 hours.

  279. Look, let’s smile for a minute.

    Ladies and Gentlemen! I give you TM’s latest incentivisor! (Is that a word?)

    Go to her site, second video down on left, posted @ 11:44 am.

    Now take a few moments to smile and compose a letter, post, comment, or telephone call to the highest level toadie in whichever organization you are targeting.

    Then gitRdone. Afterwards, maybe some New Ham news will be coming in,
    and we won’t have been sitting on our prose for the whole time.

    Ready, set, GO.

  280. I think that Fox is playing up this story. It was debunked earlier and I believe the earlier denial. The MSM really does know how to play games.

    Edwards rep was there being interviewed by Chris Wallace, after talking about 40 secs he went into a diatribe about how she is finished etc. Chris Wallace said but you guys are in 3rd, lets t alk about you.

    I really, really can’t stand the Edwards campaign. I wasn’t sure before but now I’m convinced that this is a coordinated strategy to dump on her and bring her numbers down so they are the alternative. Note that Obama and Edwards have not appeared on Fox only Hillary. I hape to say it but now I’m watching Fox over CNN or MSNBVC, their coverage seems lsess harsh on Hillary. I can’t believe that I just wrote that.

  281. Too many football mentalities here…

    Stop wringing your hands and lashing out in every direction. Some even go out of their way to find things to be upset about. Stop it, and stop it now.

    We have MONEY
    We have ORGANIZATION
    We have TIME

    Anyone who thinks that Bill shouldn’t be out there doing and saying whatever comes to him, may not be aware of the fact that he is the most TALENTED politician of my adult life, one of TWO democratic presidents elected in the past FORTY years, and the only TWO-TERM democratic president since FRANKLIN DELANO ROOSEVELT. He is also the titular head of the democratic party.

    Changes will come to the campaign, including the now denying Carville
    and Begala team, only after this election. Announcing a shake-up today, in the face of the dozen or so ugly rumors circulating would be beyond stupid.

    As to it being the campaign’s lack of surrogates countering the post Philly debate BM anti-Hillary onslaught being the reason why BM was able to sustain the negative narrative; When BM has a narrative, they reject or spin everything that doesn’t fit into or advance that narrative until something better comes along and nothing has. We are in the midst of the, “Obama Ascendant”, narrative, and until that no longer sells, or something actually HAPPENS to make them change, it will continue. When it is supplanted by a more salable story line (and it will be) no amount of surrogates or spin will be able to remove the pit-bull jaws of BM until an even better story comes along. Like the Bruce Hornsby song goes, “That’s just the way it is.”

  282. Ours is closed. Phone rings, Answering machine still on, but I’ve left msgs with no result. I know there is no telephone left in the space…all went back to DSM.

    I know there are no people left there after the exit interviews.

    Now wish I’d taken more, esp yard signs and the solid blue signs. Didn’t care much for the yellow ones.

  283. tirburones – i’m not at the kucinich UFO stage – but I absolutely believe the Republicans are creating these false rumors to psych out the voters tonight, and they are in collusion with leftist blogs like Huffington Post and (possibly Obama himself) to depress Clinton get out the votes.

  284. Writing on tis blog is very cathartic(?) for me, it helps to diffuse my stress. You guys are great!

    I am not sure how I feel about exit polls given out before the polls close. I tend to think that it hurts the person who is significantly down or hurts the person who is winning by 1-2 pts as many people, I think turn around and don’t make the effort.

    What I do like that they are doing is she is making herself much, much more accessible to the media. I watched MessMSNBC for about 7 mins this morning and saw the interview with Mika and Joe, saw the replay of her interview with John Robers on CNN and the interview on Fox. She came across well and incere. I think that this helps. It also seems that she was out and about in NH from 4:30am this moring with stops at Dunkin Donus, cafes and other places. This is good to stem the tide.

  285. While you’re at taylormarsh, find the entry she did on “10,000 reward” for anonymous sources. It’s hilarious.

    I’ve long ago stopped reading ANYTHING that relies on anonymous sources. When something’s real, the campaign will announce it through a recognized name and some respectable media will post it.

  286. Huckabee basically said he sympathized with the strain the campaign is taking on her, and that she was being treated harshly and the critics should “cut her some slack”. There ya go.

  287. Arianna was a repub and then she switched. I think that it is well know that she is not a Hill fan but that doesn’t excuse her obvious biased tilt. However, we can exercise our displeasure by not visiting her site.

    All it takes to get a story on Drudge or Huffpo, I guess is to cite a source close to the campaign etc. I’m sure that the opposition is doing it but that is out of our control.
    I find that many people in the normal world aren’t political junkies like us or internet savvy and they don’t get the information. Most people still receive their information through the MSM. We get upset about Crhis Matthews but in reality, I believe his viewership is under 300k people so there you go. I believe that her ’emotional’ moeny last night netted a positive effect on MSM and most cable outlets. It was also the news of the day and was replayed over and over. I think that in the grand scheme of things, it didn’t move anyone who wasn’t for her or a and the people who were for her stayed. It is possible that it had a positive effect on the voters who were on the fence and some women.

  288. Hooray for Realist!

    Lordy what did Rev. Mike say? In actuality he tends to be respectful of Hillary. He best stay that way. Hairyiannapuffinpuke is another story.

  289. Emjay-

    re:5:23 post; I hear you. Those 9(?) electoral votes are still very important and the past two GE’s have been razor-thin close. Hopefully, folks will remember the FIRST editorial…:)

  290. Obama’s campaign has been going directly to the media with stories for months. And the media has obligingly printed them.

  291. yes thanks mike huckabee..the only real man in the race. edwards sucks and i was a fan of his at one time

  292. Also at taylormarsh , there’s a link to this funny video:

    http://current.com/items/88805694_run_mitt_run

    Now young people here, how about something like that on Obama and his anti-gay music tour. And his refusing to visit any Black Chamber of Commerce?

    Gay cite and contacts:
    http://www.baywindows.com/index.php?ch=columnists&sc=guest_opinion&sc2=&sc3=&id=54314

    Black Chamber cite and contacts:
    http://www.nationalbcc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=199&Itemid=112

    And what DOES Hillary say about medical marijuana?

  293. after tonight, big media will declare there is a moment and the leader is BHO. So who can stop the movement?

  294. Huckabee basically said he sympathized with the strain the campaign is taking on her, and that she was being treated harshly and the critics should “cut her some slack”.

    Well, that’s the same frame Obama used. Framing it as ‘campaign grind’ rather than as her feling sadness for the state of the country and the danger of another GOP admin.

    Cut her some slack because she’s a frail woman and can’t take the ‘grind’…. And remember that means she’s not fit for office, too.

  295. It’s the economy, stupid.

    …HRC coined the phrase, and it should serve her well the rest of the campaign.

  296. Absolutely, Berkley. the economy is going to become really important very, very soon. I believe it will give Hill an edge.

  297. saw some cnn exits-dems said-57pct voted on issues, 41pct on personality. it ws the reverse for the gop i saw. i wonder if this si a good sign for hillary?

  298. I am tuned it to CNN and ready for election night!

    I think Hillary, if not being able to move the public, certainly seems to have moved the media a little in the past few days.
    She has let the media ‘in’ a lot more, she’s taking more questions, loosened up a bit on the campaign trail. And this is have some, not a lot, but some effect. As we know, how the media treats you is key.

    I actually believe that the media doesn’t so much hate Hillary, as they have hated that she always keeps them at a distance. But of course, who can blame her? Now they see Obama do the same now that he is ahead, not wanting to stumble.
    I think we also saw this with CMatthews the other day, he likes her, he’s just angry she wont do his show.

  299. I don’t think he meant it that way, 1950. He added “she’s human”. It seems the Clintons (both) genuinely like Huckabee.

  300. I actually believe that the media doesn’t so much hate Hillary, as they have hated that she always keeps them at a distance.

    Don’t kid yourself.

  301. CNN…..

    Bill Schneider: Here’s an interesting fact we discovered in the exit poll. About 1 in 7, 14% of both Democrats & Republicans, told us they made their minds up, how they’re going to vote today. This very day. So there could be some changes from the pre-election polls.
    I’ll update as more information becomes available.

    Rimjob’s diary :: ::
    CNN did release some of the internals of the Exit Poll…..

    Most Important Issue? [Democrats]
    Economy 36%
    Iraq 32%
    Health Care 28%

    Most Important Issue? [Republicans]
    Economy 29%
    Iraq 24%
    Illegal Immigration 22%
    Terrorism 20%

    Most Important To Your Vote? [Democrats]
    Issues 57%
    Personal Qualities 41%

    Most Important To Your Vote? [Republicans]
    Personal Qualities 54%
    Issues 43%

    Update [2008-1-8 18:0:45 by Rimjob]:

    From the AP: 60% Of New Hampshire Independents Vote Democrat

    Preliminary exit polls showed independents were more attracted to the Democratic contest; about 60 percent chose the Democratic primary over the Republican primary, according to partial samples in surveys for The Associated Press and the television networks.

    The surveys showed the economy was the top concern of Republican primary voters; after the economy, they split evenly on immigration, Iraq and terrorism. A third of GOP primary voters said they strongly approve of the Iraq war, and at least as many said they approve somewhat.
    Update [2008-1-8 18:0:45 by Rimjob]:

    From TheBostonChannel.com: “Change” Dominates

    New Hampshire Democrats went to the polls in seemingly record numbers Tuesday driven by an overwhelming desire for change. An exit poll conducted for WCVB-TV and TheBostonChannel.com found that 56 percent of voters in the Democratic primary made their decision based on the candidate they best felt could bring about “needed change.” Eighteen percent voted for a candidate because he or she had the right experience and only 7 percent said the “best chance to win in November” was the major factor in their decision.

    The exit poll of Democrats showed a race in rapid flux. Thirty-six percent of the voters said they had made the final choice over the weekend or as they went into the polls on primary day. The heavily watched Saturday debate was a factor in voter decision. Seventy-six percent said it was important to them. The exit poll of Democrats showed a race in rapid flux. Thirty-six percent of the voters said they had made the final choice over the weekend or as they went into the polls on primary day.

  302. Ever since I saw the Chris Mathews video, I have no doubt that he has a major crush on her. You remember when you were small and you were in the playing ground and the boy who liked you was always picking on you and pulling your hair just because you wouldn’t give him any attention. So, they do something to get your attention. I swear when Hillary tapped Chris’s cheekes and said awww Christopher, he turned red.

  303. Those exit numbers are kind of weird. You’d think with McCain doing well policy would matter more to NH GOP primary voters.

  304. after tonite republicans are going to go after obama. hillary won’t have to vet him. just baring tidbits in evening news casts this evening leave me to believe that obama is getting ready to feel the sting,

    he is just too smug and i have a bad gut feeling about him

  305. Obama camp looks to be doing delegate math. I have seen several posts today on various sites by Obama/Edwards supports urging Michigan voters to vote “Undecided” to deny Hillary all of the Delegates.

  306. HWC, make no mistake (god I hate that phrase) I am in no way delusional as to the press disdain for Hillary. But as I wrote, I don’t think they hate her AS MUCH as they hate that she denies them access.

    This is something I have read for years now. The press want access to ask questions, and get to know her. But she has stuck with her ‘war room’ and ‘Hillaryland’, no leaks from her ‘people’. This has angered the media for more then a decade. Hence the hatred. If she would have let them ‘in’ more, they might have eased up a little. I stand by that, and I say that as a matter of fact.

  307. Maggie Williams to Join Clinton Effort

    Even before the polls close in New Hampshire comes word of changes at the top of the Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton’s (N.Y.) presidential campaign.

    Maggie Williams, a longtime Hillary Clinton confidante, is reportedly being brought on to coordinate the campaign’s activities. Insiders have urged campaign manager Patti Solis Doyle to stay on, but no decision have been made, according to campaign insiders.

    Williams served as Hillary Clinton’s chief of staff during Bill Clinton’s first term and has remained close to the former first lady ever since. (Here’s a 1994 story about her by The Post’s Ruth Marcus.)

    We hear that more change is on the way…. stay tuned.

    http:// blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/01/maggie_williams_to_join_clinto.html

  308. Maggie Williams to Join Clinton Effort

    Even before the polls close in New Hampshire comes word of changes at the top of the Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton’s (N.Y.) presidential campaign.

    Maggie Williams, a longtime Hillary Clinton confidante, is reportedly being brought on to coordinate the campaign’s activities. Insiders have urged campaign manager Patti Solis Doyle to stay on, but no decision have been made, according to campaign insiders.

    Williams served as Hillary Clinton’s chief of staff during Bill Clinton’s first term and has remained close to the former first lady ever since. (Here’s a 1994 story about her by The Post’s Ruth Marcus.)

    We hear that more change is on the way…. stay tuned.

    blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/01/maggie_williams_to_join_clinto.html

  309. rjk1957,
    Oh no, not a chance. They’ll let The Anointed One off smooth and easy as long as Hillary is still in the fight.

  310. rjk, i agree, can’t wait till he feels the heat. it doesn’t surprise me what they are doing about the undecided. it should not be allowed…edwards has sunk lower and lower

  311. Paula,

    BTW, Joe Friday, are those comments you’re hearing today from NH voters?

    Couple from NightLine last nite.

    Naive saps.

  312. ABC News reporting that exit polling showing that unlike Iowa, normal turnout by younger people, but HEAVY turnout by seniors.

  313. I am sure and certain of what I hope for: She will be the president either as a nominee or as an independent candidate. If some people be it because of misogyny or other types of hate would try to undermine or confuse her nominee, then I suggest that she runs on her own, and I’m sure she will get a lot of support in the GE. Let Obama and Edwards have sugar and milk now but the cake belongs to Hillary and is already on the way to her.

  314. maggie williams is taking control says wapo. she was hillary’s press secretary in the 90s and close friend. smart as a whip knows how to manage message. and a trailblazer-the first black woman to hold tht position says wapo.com. and dont count out nh yet

  315. GO seniors for Hillary! Go McCain (Go Ron Paul) – get those votes out for Hillary! I really want to see the comback kid in NH, once again.

  316. dot48,
    If there is anything the campaign seriously has to fix, it’s how it communicates with women voters. There has however been some real improvement over the last few days and I think it will continue to improve. The very last thing needed at this point, thus, is some “pit bull male figure”. If Hillary at this point has great confidence in Maggie Williams, so have I.

  317. Well, Maggie is and african american if I’m correct, and Hillary has said in the past, that during this campaign she nearly speaks with her on the phone almost everyday. So she is important to Hillary. Hopefully she can help out in some way.

    I like the Hillary we have seen for the past few days now, she is letting loose a little, being herself more. I just wish she would have done this a long time ago.

  318. Joe Friday, I agree. I do not think BO really believes what he is saying, but he knows it work for him. –CD99

  319. Maggie Williams is a go-getter African American lady who worked with one of the top marketing and PR firms in the country before working for Hillary in the Whitehouse. She rocks.

  320. From:

    Live Blogging From New Hampshire Primary — By Rick Klein

    6:07 pm: More on the youth vote — preliminary numbers suggest that only about one in six Democratic voters are under age 30 — another data point that isn’t great for Obama. So far — this is not looking like another Iowa. I come back to the point I made earlier: If Obama wins by just a little bit, won’t the Clinton folks declare victory?

    Meanwhile, at the Obama rally at Nashua South High School, the “CHANGE we can believe in” placard has just been hung on the podium, ABC’s Sunlen Miller informs us. Said the tech staffer who was testing the mic: “I’m not him, you don’t need to take picture of me, he’ll be here in a couple hours.” If he wins, he’ll be very happy, of course, but there could me more than one “victory” speech tonight.

    5:53 pm: OK — some preliminary analysis from the network exit polls. First, there are more independents voting, but NOT disproportionately so. Our polling director, Gary Langer, says they are voting in “substantial but customary numbers.” This suggests a closer race, maybe in both sides. But there’s also a roughly equal portion of independents voting in the GOP primary as did in 2000, when McCain used them to power to victory. So that’s not great news for Obama. So far, there’s a spike in older voters, but NOT in younger voters — but they tend to vote later. So that’s not great for Obama. Overall, that would suggest a closer contest on the Democratic side than we have expected based on polls. We may be here for a while…

  321. Maggie Williams is definitely a pit bull, although not male.

    She is really tough, and really close to Hillary.

  322. tiburones, I have to say two things about a couple of your posts earlier. First and foremost, we can’t just go to FL and start doing anything there; the DNC has forbidden it. We have to hope that the HUGE poll numbers showing Hillary ahead there by 25+ don’t change too much. Tons of seniors in FL, and they love them some Clintons.

    As to the Culinary Worker’s Union, you had the number wrong. There are 60,000 members, not 16,000. That is why the press is saying the union endorsement would be so formidable. However, because that union has waited so long to endorse, they will have little time to organize around BHO. Hillary was leading by huge margins in the polls earlier last month in NV, and the Latino vote will go her way.

  323. See BHO was hoping that being in favor of driver’s licenses for illegal immigrants would help him in states like CA and NV, but this is something that the Repugs are going to use to SKEWER him in the GE.

  324. Gorto — I made a post and lost it, trying again.

    More press access may be a good idea now, and maybe H should have done it sooner.

    But there’s been similar hatred for FDR/Eleanor, JFK, Ferraro (possibly Truman), and of the Clintons since at least when they were Gov of Arkansas, and of Gore in 2000. I doubt that all these people had the same press access policy for all those years.

    It can work the other way too. If the press DOES hate you and twists every word you say into something awful (as with Gore in 2000), that’s a good reason TO not answer their questions without preparation.

    When Gore was misquoted or twisted, he didn’t have much recourse. But now it’s easier for the candidate to have her own cameras recording the whole thing, and release the full context version on her website and to friendly sites. So there’s a reality check on the press, they can’t get away with as much twisting. So there’s not so much need for preparation.

  325. from earlier post from CNN exit polls..

    Most Important To Your Vote? [Democrats]
    Issues 57%
    Personal Qualities 41%

    This looks good for us..

  326. Appreciate your response 1950, I think the reason what Hillary is doing now, is good for her, is because she simply hasn’t done it before.
    Almost catching the press by surprise. I think of course if she had done this for a long time, the press would return to beast that they are.
    But for now, this can really be good for her, and her relationship with the press, which have always been tense.

    The media loves to build, only to tear down what they built. And as you say, for the past few years the media has lost some of it’s power to the people, with the help of the internet, youtube and such. At some point, they will turn on Obama as well. It just depends on when they do, it will be too late or not.

  327. dot48, you are so right. Take out “change” and take out anything that starts “For 35 years…”

    Admin, this is serious. Anytime “change” is used in a sentence, BHO looks better.

  328. rjk1957’s post from a live blogger at the NH primary (@6:53) says “This isn’t great/good for Obama” THREE TIMES.

  329. agree HillGuy. I’ve noticed last couple days she not been saying that, just saying for a long time she has been fighting for us

  330. The words hope and change need to be taken out of the dictionary. I will never feel the same way about those words again. I am over them lol.

  331. Guys, lets pray for a miracle. If we loose, lets hope it’s close. Call me crazy but I am getting a good feeling.

  332. you know i don’t think anyone who has been around a while really believes that washington can change. it won’t. it’s about who will work harder

  333. THIS should be the new theme: “Action.” Have it on every banner, every sign. Have Hillary’s surrogates to use it in every single sentence.

  334. well hell yall we wouldn’t be talking the “h” word at all if it hadn’t been for 42….I still believe in a place called H___. Remember that?

  335. I might be jumping the gun, but I have a really good feeling all of the sudden, based upon those live bloggers at the primaries. For them to say things like “Indies are turning out in equal numbers for the GOP primary” or “Indies voting for McCain in numbers that mirror his 2000 win” or “Huge turnout for Seniors”….. This could be good.

    **MAYBE the polls showing BHO so far ahead the past few days and Romney and McCain tied will work to our benefit, in terms of the indie vote.

  336. get into action…activist…act up…act right…act left…act grown up….has lots of possibilities

  337. Caroline:
    “Guys, lets pray for a miracle. If we loose, lets hope it’s close. Call me crazy but I am getting a good feeling.”

    Me too, I’m getting a good feeling about NH. And yes, I am praying hard.

  338. Some More Early Exit Numbers
    by Jonathan Singer, Tue Jan 08, 2008 at 07:02:24 PM EST

    Some early numbers just crossed my desk. I can’t vouch for their veracity, and it would be worth noting that the numbers I got Thursday night were more than a bit off. What’s more, there should be some real, actual numbers coming in here soon. Anyway, for whatever it’s worth, this is what crossed my desk:

    Obama 41
    Clinton 37
    Edwards 15

    McCain 36
    Romney 30
    Huckabee 13
    Paul 11
    Giuliani 8.5

  339. I think this is closer to call than any have EVER predicted. this is when a comeback kid comes and kicks some ass.. but I will wait for LOOONG time before calling this over..

  340. Kingsgrove you are so right, Action should be it!!! It’s a powerful word.

    LOL Molly, “grown up” is good, although I would take away the n,
    “grow up”. 😉

  341. If she loses by 4 percentage points, I’ll be ecstatic. No poll out today had her losing by less than 5.

  342. If you look at the Concord Monitor’s website, and I know only 1% reporting so far, but for Hillary and BHO to be tied and McCain to be SO far ahead, doesn’t this appear to anyone that indies are going for McCain??

  343. If you are of Clinton’s calibre and her records are your own, having being so menacingly and so savagely attacked, at a non-stop rhythm and for so long and always the same; monotone and disgusting, then I can understand her why she is taking a clear and secure distance from the big media. The record shows that she has fewer friends there and she will gain nothing of significance even if she will read with them her private diaries.

  344. It’s going to be a long roller coaster night, folks. Strap in. I am hoping for a less than 9% loss. Anything else is gravy. The numbers could change fast, so don’t get giddy.

    I need a drink.

  345. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope.. change by action not by hope..

  346. John McCain ran as a reform candidate in 2000, a change candidate. He beat W in NH, and the Bush campaign, until that moment seen as inevitable, found themselves not just losers of a primary, but on the short end of what could be a movement inside the party they thought they owned.

    Through savvy and a despicable, practically criminal menu of lies, innuendos and dirty tricks, they managed to dirty McCain while promoting Bush the younger, who was as establishment and establishment backed as any candidate in recent history, as a, “Reformer with RESULTS”; Simultaneously wounding McCain fatally as a candidate AND appropriating his catch-phrase and mantle as a reformer.

    A seasoned, hard-nosed campaign doesn’t run from a fight or concede a word, phrase or image to the opponent.

  347. Clinton 5,835 37% 0
    Obama 5,723 36% 0
    Edwards 2,702 17% 0
    Richardson 709 4% 0
    Kucinich 295 2% 0
    Gravel 28 0% 0
    Biden 22 0% 0
    Dodd 13 0% 0

  348. Clinton 5,835 37% 0
    Obama 5,723 36% 0
    Edwards 2,702 17% 0
    Richardson 709 4% 0
    Kucinich 295 2% 0
    Gravel 28 0% 0
    Biden 22 0% 0
    Dodd 13 0% 0
    .

  349. nope.. take out change or hope. they are taken. she needs to go with the economy….decure the country, rebuild our foreign policy

  350. New thread is up.

    Admin can you post a comment whenever a new thread is up, I usually fall behind because I don’t realize. I just refresh this comment section.

    Thanks.

  351. TheRealist

    Nope; in IA we have the same number of electoral votes this year (remember my saying we’ve lost population?) as OR, OK & CT; more than NV, NM, KS, NE, MT, WY, ID, UT, AK, HI, ND, SD, AR, MS, WV, ME, DC, DE, RI, NH, VT; fewer than MA, MD, NJ, NY, PA, VA, NC, FL, GA, AL, LA, MO, IL, TN, OH, IN, MI, WI, MN, TX, CO, AZ, WA, CA, and at 7, one less than KY and SC. Damn near smack in the middle. LA may lose 1 after this election.

    Info is on electoral-vote.com, courtesy of the Votemaster.

  352. With 7% in

    Clinton 7,863 37% 0
    Obama 7,618 36% 0
    Edwards 3,553 17% 0
    Richardson 910 5% 0
    Kucinich 400 2% 0
    Biden 38 0% 0
    Gravel 33 0% 0
    Dodd 17 0% 0

  353. No Gladiator. You don’t want to overdo it and make her the antiHope candidate. “Action.” is simple and to the point.

  354. we can only hope the media has to eat their words. sick of hearing the media packing out in front of obamas victory party.

  355. Still with 7% in

    Clinton 7,863 37% 0
    Obama 7,618 36% 0
    Edwards 3,553 17% 0
    Richardson 910 5% 0
    Kucinich 400 2% 0
    Biden 38 0% 0
    Gravel 33 0% 0
    Dodd 17 0% 0

  356. Still with 7%

    Clinton 8,298 38% 0
    Obama 7,892 36% 0
    Edwards 3,710 17% 0
    Richardson 938 4% 0
    Kucinich 412 2% 0
    Biden 39 0% 0
    Gravel 35 0% 0
    Dodd 17 0% 0

  357. 7% reporting

    Clinton 8,298 38% 0
    Obama 7,892 36% 0
    Edwards 3,710 17% 0

    abcnews.go.com/politics/elections/state?state=NH

  358. hello to all…getting ready for the results…the line MSM is pitching now Hillary’s people think Obama is not so bad they may defect…not us…as we have discussed, Hill needs youthful forceful people to rep her on tv…Dee Dee Myers hit back on Hardball tonight…she should definitely be on the shows much more pushing back…she is smart, nonthreatening, reassuring and makes Hillary’s case convincingly and she did not let Chris stammer over her…she stands her ground gracefully…note to Hill camp…enlist Dee Dee someway…she can be a needed positive voice that is missing…

    Emjay…hang in there…the fight has just begun…we are just getting warmed up…

    The Realist…love your comments and philosophical outlook…

    it is early, but so far, so good…we are neck and neck…maybe those seniors will teach the youngsters something tonight…

  359. Still at 7%

    Clinton 8,298 38% 0
    Obama 7,892 36% 0
    Edwards 3,710 17% 0
    Richardson 938 4% 0
    Kucinich 412 2% 0
    Biden 39 0% 0
    Gravel 35 0% 0
    Dodd 17 0% 0

  360. At 8%

    Clinton 10,135 38% 0
    Obama 9,811 36% 0
    Edwards 4,455 17% 0
    Richardson 1,175 4% 0
    Kucinich 527 2% 0
    Biden 49 0% 0
    Gravel 41 0% 0
    Dodd 20 0% 0

  361. Typing with crossed fingers…. Is there any pattern of senior precincts reporting results sooner and the younger neighborhoods coming along later? Or the high-Indie precincts taking longer to do their thing?

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