New Hampshire Debate With Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, John Edwards, Bill Richardson

The Democratic Party Presidential Debate. The Democratic debate with Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, John Edwards and Bill Richardson, will be televised on ABC stations from approximately 8:45 p.m. to 10:15 p.m. (ET).

The moderators will be Charlie Gibson of ABC and Scott Spradling of WMUR.

The debate can be viewed on the internet HERE.

We’ll post debate highlights and comments from the discussion instead of a transcript (as we usually do) because this debate is in prime time and on a network.
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From Mollyjrichards:

Thanks Admin for the reminders that the best cure for worry is to do somethin. I spent lunch today with a couple of undecided friends. We were talkin’ politics. I was there with my partner and we told them about the obamorama gospel tour with the homophobe. I spent yesterday making New Hampshire calls and I plan to make calls tomorrow. I’m also makingup my email list both locally and nation wide and writing a heart felt/fact-based testimonial for Hillary. We have to stay on message. If people go into a group and politics come up…tell them what you know. Don’t let people get off makin’ disparaging comments–take them right back home and show your passion–but get to the message: why she is the best person for the job…bar none…AND ready to go on day1.

From Gorto:

This debate is much more a conversation, then 60 second answers.

Who will this benefit? If someone decides to team up, it seems this will be hard to fight back against. I hope Edwards realizes he needs to go after Obama, and not Hillary. And Bill needs to follow this one too.

He worked in the Clinton administration, he shouldn’t go after Hill.

I hope Hillary shows some guts tonight, some chutzpa!!

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On terror, Gladiatorstail:

hillary has hit the nail on the head.. india HAS to be included in the picture which is the right thing to do.. thats what bill did in 1999.. extremely effectively and saved a nuclear war in the subcontinent!

Healthcare, Ininla:

I’m really glad when she defended herself she said 7,000 children in New Hampshire she’s helped with her legislation – remind the people what’s she’s done for NH.

LawSchoolDem:

nice line from Richardson: Is experience a leper now?

Experience:
LawSchoolDem:

YES! This is what we’ve been talking about all day … BHO is running like GWB in 2000!

HillGuy:

She is AMAZING RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!! She has been reading this site!

DemAC:

Hillary is splendid in the “likeability” question! Gracious, humor – and then on to her unique experience working for change.

And the first applaud of the night!

HillGuy:

“I think electing the first woman President represents a HUGE change.” This is brilliant.

Hillary:

“In 2000 Americans elected someone they said they wanted to have a beer with. They elected someone who said they’d be a uniter not a divider.”

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672 thoughts on “New Hampshire Debate With Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, John Edwards, Bill Richardson

  1. Would love to know what Hillary, McCain and Guilaini had to say to each other. Looked like Hillary and McCain were talking about something serious.

  2. I trust Hillary will draw a good contrast between herself, the most competent and experienced candidate of both parties, and the other three who are more willing then they are able.

  3. Thanks admin for the nod by puttin’ me up top. We are all in this together, yall. Somedays are really difficult,

    Fair’s the last thing politics is, yall. I came out swingin’ for our girl today. And that reminded me of how long I’ve been swingin’ as I am sure many of yall have been to…for human rights, against inequality, against wars at various times and places. And I suddenly remembered that a Hillary Clinton didn’t exist when I grew up (well, she did but she was growin’ up, too). part of our job is to keep remindin’ people of what’s important in this country. I said words today that I thought I would never hear come out of my mouth. I said I am proud of this country everytime I hear Hillary speak…because I know how hard she was working when she was younger like me, to do some good in the world. Get psyched. Some days are really difficult. Lord have mercy did we ever think the 92 election was going come out the way it did? You just keep fighting.

    By the way, that is one hell of an essay somebody posted about obama and civil rights. That’s something else I’ve been thinking about today. About the first time I saw Martin Luther King give a speech and then later when I saw him in person. Please folks, Obama is not even in Martin Luther King’s league. I’m not talkin’ oratory. I am talking authenticity and commitment. Hillary on the other hand has been working doggedly since she was a young person to make the world a better place for others. It ain’t about her. It’s about this country, the voters, the world. It’s so much bigger than the messenger and that’s what Dr. King saw. We’re the carriers of that torch those of us who know who Hillary is and what she stands for. She will not walk away from a fight and we will not walk away from her!

  4. Did everyone hear how upbeat Hillary was when Gibson was leading out to commercial? It was caught on his open mic … something like “Hi there Charlie …” Really upbeat, positive, friendly, you go girl! Bring it on!

  5. Gorto, I’m no so much worried about Charlie as I am about the second moderator asking questions. He is rather antagonistic.

  6. Edwards must feel the stress tonight. This is the last time he’ll be politically relevant for many, many years – and he must know this. We’ll see if this makes him more aggressive than usual…

  7. She looks good. She shines in debates, guys, and she knows the issues inside out, our wonky gal! I hope Obama starts his shifty stuttering around the issues crap.

    I…I…I..I…..what I meant was……I ……I….

  8. Yeah, I think gibson might like hillary, at least I kinda hope so.

    The independents watching the debate with their monitoring button pushing thingies, expressed negatively when the repugs went negative on eachother, hopefully the same wont happen this time with the dems

  9. Some idiot young girl was talking about how she traveled to NH from NYC to volunteer for BHO. It astounds me that young women aren’t recognizing the historical significance of electing the first woman President.

  10. gorto

    he pulled all repubs into the flip-flop camp with specific examples

    he, like carolyn washburn has obviously done his homework on the candidates positions…written, spoken an voting record…therefore, BO is toast.

    he asked the Dems to come onstage ahd mingle with the Repubs..saying ONE of them is going to be POTUS.

  11. Psymac, the most important thing was not getting Hillary in between Bo JE, she is not, so this is good, and there is also this ‘wall’ of protection in a way, hehe, because of richardson, I like it.

  12. Obama has been fighting a cold for a few days, hopefully he he will develop high fever as hillary will pounce!!

  13. hillary has hit the nail on the head.. india HAS to be included in the picture which is the right thing to do.. thats what bill did in 1999.. extremely effectively and saved a nuclear war in the subcontinent!

  14. Obama: We must have an agreement with the Pakistanis before we strike them whithout previous warning…

    ¿Que?

  15. Looks like Breck girl inherently supports torture as he said that we need ‘all options’. Is this not hypocrisy?

  16. Hillary seems(like she many times has) like she needs to ‘warm up’ a little.

    I’m sure she will be stronger and stronger as the debate goes on.

    But I wish they would have had this serious issue later in the debate, obamas lames as might not be remembered at the end of the debate if he recovers on other issues that are more fluff.

  17. aroline

    if someone hasn’t already answrd you…go to Admin at the top of these comments and hit the blue “internet here” words (link). That will take your to the live stream. If this is late , sorry, lots of us making lots of comments.

  18. Good strong answer by Hillary now, Obama trying to look as a statesman, all serious, but just looks silly in my mind.

    Bill talking about soviet union, lol, hey man, get updated, it called russia now,

  19. i love Clinton’s wonkishness – when Gibson asks about nuclear war, there’s a cutaway to Obama, and I was thinking, if there were a nuclear war, this is not who I would be thinking could keep us safe. When she talks, I definitely think, I will sleep better knowing she is in command.

  20. Yep, Emjay, got a live video feed window on the right and H44 website window on the left (and an active 3 year old all around the room saying, “Daddy, stop working!”).

  21. Hillary: “we need a president we can count on.” This is very close to “Obama is never there when you need him”.

  22. get him hill…you mandate health for children…etc

    all our records need examination

    etc

    make him defensive. Yahhhhh

  23. JE just sold Hillary out. JE has been offered VP or a cabinet by Obama, and he is going to take it. Bank on it.

  24. Let JRE support OB. They will both split Obama’s votes. Good for Hillary. I hope the people in NH and all over the country watching this are not stupid and can see right through it.

  25. oh, Hillary was good, but she seemed a bit too angry perhaps? The media would pound her for this, but I liked it that she got pissed, she is better then, she is not good when pretending to be nice when attacking, she is good when just punching and standing up for what she believes in.

    Richardson got off a laugh, he gets to be the class clown tonight.

  26. My ONLY concern about Hillarys comments there, (which I loved) is she raised her voice just a little too much, a little lower and it would have been perfect!

    Keep it up Hill!

  27. I’m really glad when she defended herself she said 7,000 children in New Hampshire she’s helped with her legislation – remind the people what’s she’s done for NH.

  28. Iraq and the surge next, after that blistering segment on health care (social security pretty much got lost).

  29. Obama never answered the question of if he favored single payer insurance in the past (I believe there is video of him saying this)

  30. i disagree that her voice was wrong, showed passion for her cause, this is what people need to see, that she will fight it out.

  31. Edwards is a total sellout. What an idiot. He’s got no chance; supporting BHO will only earn him a loss.

  32. I have to say thanks to Admin for this site, here in Florida we dems don’t get much respect or campaign visits, living vicariously thru this site, lol.

  33. dot48, I loved her outburst, I want more of it!

    But looking back at history the media has a history of attacking her for things like this, her voice, “she’s screaming” “She sounds shrill” ” she needs to soften her voice” blah blah blah.

    I loved her line of” 7000 children in NH have health care because of what I’ve done”!!!

    Obama looked like a baby sitting there, not being able to point to any past achievements of his own, because he has none.

  34. Obama looks pissed whenever she speaks – on Iraq, he “opposed it from the start,” and “it cost us trillions” – WELL THEN WHY DID YOU VOTE FOR FUNDING IT?

  35. According to an aricle on Huffington post, there have been feelers between O and Edwards about forming a ticket. His behavior tonight does not suprise me at all.

  36. BO: the way to effect change in Iraq is to win the congressional elections of 2006…

    …Isn’t that pretty much done?

  37. someone up there, plse plse ask

    BO please point to one damn thing you have DONE

    stfu about what you will do, or what should be done!

  38. she is always better in debates because she actually knows what to do as President – if only there were 2 more debates before this NH vote. except for the Oct debate, every debate she’s done well in and the media is always glowing about her.

  39. Richardson is actually buffering some of the onslaught towards Hillary. He is conjuring experience, etc.

  40. On Fox, that idiot Zogby has a group of New Hampshire people watching the debate and, of course, they are talking against Hillary right and left. Looks like he has an agenda.

  41. So far so good! Obama once again is anonymous in this debate.

    Hillary shines when she is tough no doubt, hope she gets a lighthearted moment in the second half, her smile can melt a plenty hearts!

  42. Hillary is doing great everyone. I am glad this is on ABC and not on a cable network. Everyone should have a chance to see it. JRE is just hurting himself. Whatever works for him I guess.

  43. I agree – Hillary needs to get more of this info out to the public about Obama’s shortcomings, his Present votes, his lack of leadership on the senate subcommittee on foreign relations, his 2nd worst attendance record in Congress in Veteran Affairs hearing…people need to know NOW, not when the Republicans get their chance.

  44. clintondem99, I think she is being too nice as well. She needs to attack. Obviously the only way we’re going to get the information about BHO to voters is through her, since Big Media is failing to do so. Edwards full on attacked Hillary in “nice” Iowa, and he finished ahead of her. ATTACK.

  45. Hillary looks very Presidential, very cool and very collected.

    Obama stutters as usual. Edwards couldn’t look less Presidential if he tried, throwing in that he’d consult with the military leadership as an afterthought.

  46. Edwards may think he has a deal with obama for vp, but what is he going to do when O says “sorry I changed my mind” sue him for breach of a verbal contract???

  47. Hillary is splendid in the “likeability” question! Gracious, humor – and then on to her unique experience working for change.

    And the first applaud of the night!

  48. woot woot woot

    Hill is channeling Julia Roberts and getting a laugh

    and then she stopped showing leg exactlu right on time.

  49. what a contrast in character – Hillary compliments Obama and says “he is very likeable” and then, he snarkily says to her (just like his snarky constituents) “you’re likeable enough.”

  50. “In 2000 Americans elected someone they said they wanted to have a beer with. They elected someone who said they’d be a uniter not a divider.” Stunning. EXACTLY what she needed to say.

  51. I wish that Hillary had done more “vetting” of Obama during all debates – I definitely think that what she’s said about his record is NEW INFO for people (on a national level) because the media has failed to vet him.

  52. Ininla, I’m not sure there was much opportunity for that in earlier debates because of the nature of the questions and the appalling behavior of some of the moderators (yes, Tm Russert, that means you).

  53. The “that hurts my feelings” comment was a human moment the media seems to desperate to point out that she “lacks.” She is on tonight.

  54. wonder if you all feel this way, but whenever Edwards speaks, I glaze over – nothing he says seems authentic.

  55. HillGuy, that will resonate with voters. She needs to PUSH that damn comparison! That whole impassioned speech there was wonderful.

    And yes put the first woman president thing out there front and center, and DARE the press or Obama to come after her on that! Trust me, they will piss off every woman in America if they try.

  56. Bill R and Edwards are just white noise. The only two persons on that stage that matters are O and Hillary. And this feels very good for Hillary so far…

  57. HillaryforTexas, I could not agree more! Put the first woman president thing as a SYMBOL OF CHANGE. Make it front and center. This is what she needs to run on for change.

  58. Uh – Please someone say to Obama, Your NH co-chair is a state lobbyist – hello, Hillary – please say this.

  59. Paula, the lesser-known moderator asked her basically what she thinks about voters thinking BHO is more “likeable.”

  60. Go Hillary!!! amazing now!!!!

    Paula:
    Moderator talked about experience vs likability, mentioning obama being so likable, that’s what hillary earlier answered with “that hurts my feelings”

  61. Thanks for your comments. I am not able to watch this so I only get to see the debate through your comments. Please keep it coming.

  62. Darn, I’ve got a 3yo who is NOT going to sleep like he should and mom is NOT helping, lol. I hope this is on the internet later, so I can review this good part with Hillary.

  63. DemAC, fire is right. We need to embrace the fact that THIS is EXACTLY what she needed.

    WHERE’S THE BEEF? She asked it tonight.

  64. Where is the flowing rhetoric of Obama? How comes that he turns into a little schoolboy every time he’s directly confronted with Hillary?

  65. Rickya, you are missing a hot one.

    For later viewing: Hillary at the debate: What we need is someone who can deliver change – not false hopes.

  66. ““Words are not action. As beautifully presented and passionately presented, they are not action.”

    Perhaps Hillary’s – and the debate’s – best line of the night. And she have had many good lines so far.

  67. Hillary’s debate performance tonight will not soon be forgotten. I say this all corniness aside, but performances like tonight’s are exactly why she is my hero. Love her.

  68. Admin, she actually pointed out that BHO’s NH Co-Chairman is a lobbyist. Don’t let this get ignored. Basically pointing out his hypocrisy.

  69. At least on my internet video feed, some nice audience shots of Chelsea, didn’t see any other candidate supporter shots…

  70. Hillary immediately took charge on the questions of economics. She’s very much in charge. Obama is gone from this debate. When was the last time he said anything?

  71. Elizabeth and JE father has been shown, and great shots of chelsea.

    Hillary is for sure on fire, everyone please bring in the commentators/pundits comments after this debate, they can’t possibly ignore Hillary after this wonderful performance!!!!

  72. DemAC, this is the first network prime time debate and it follows the ripublican debate so it probably has a huge audience.

    Thanks for the factcheck HillaryforTexas (we’ll edit the link).

  73. You’re right DemAC – Obama’s silent a lot, out of the debate, or stammering, not Presidential or take-charge.

  74. Also regarding BHO & GWB gut politics from TNR: Yet today, after seven disastrous years of the Bush experience, otherwise rational editorialists and commentators are insisting that instincts basically are good enough–and are actually more important than what they consider prosaic credentials such as knowledge, experience, and sound policy proposals. The pundits have vaunted good vibes and gut-thinking as the crucial qualifications for the nation’s highest office. They have turned the delusional style into a rallying cry–in support, at least for the moment, of the candidacy of Barack Obama and his allegedly superior intuition.

    The Boston Globe, in an ideal specimen of the delusional style, ran an editorial that endorsed Obama because he is biracial and grew up in “multi-ethnic cultures”–adequate substitutes, by the editorial’s lights, for serious background and expertise in foreign affairs. Obama, according to the Globe, has engaged in “a search for identity” and taken “a roots pilgrimage to Kenya,” all of which supposedly displays a “level of introspection, honesty, and maturity” that the newspaper longs for in a president. “Obama’s story is America’s story,” the Globe intoned–a sentence that comes as close as any distinguished newspaper ever has to perfect emptiness.

    Let us hold aside that the book the Globe relied on in discovering these singular Obamaesque virtues, Dreams From My Father, contains composite characters and other fictionalized elements–not exactly a portrait of sterling honesty or authenticity. What is especially delusional is the Globe’s confidence that its own projections about Obama’s character and personality, as well as the mystical conclusions it draws from his ethnicity, are serious grounds for endorsing any candidate for any office, much less the presidency.

  75. Admin, if possible at some time would like to see the clip where Hillary smacks down BO, “reality check”, thanks!

  76. I like the cutaway shots to Chelsea; she looks genuinely proud of her mom. In California, I’ve got the Republican debate on TV while watching the Dems online, so wondering if the telecast will actually show Chelsea.

  77. Beautiful end note – gracious and pointing out that the Democrats are head and shoulders above the Republicans.

  78. i’ve had to watch this whole debate thru your words, and you guys rock!

    the internet feed has no sound, so i could only watch the picture…
    im on paciific time watching the repugs now….

    you guys are hired, you should work in a deaf school… LOL…
    .

  79. This was a GREAT performance by Hillary. She was in charge, she was on fire and she was in total command of the facts and of the interchange.

    Her performance completely dwarfed Obama. He looked tremendously relieved when the debate was over and he didn’t need to confront Hillary any more.

  80. well, Sawyer and Stephanopoulos probably will not say that Hill moment was shrill – I hope they maintain the classiness of the debate and the tone that Gibson set.

  81. Yes, the talking heads in NH more or less declared Hillary the winner. They compared her to Romney and said that one of them (Hillary) did come out better off of this debate, and one (Romney) did not.

  82. From NBC’s Chuck Todd
    Clinton just made a very effective hit on Obama and Edwards because she was able to do as a counterpunch rather than as a direct hit. She got it out there to New Hampshire indies that Obama’s chief state supporter is a state lobbyist. And she was able to hit Edwards for not passing anything in the Senate. BTW, not sure why the moderator just inserted himself on this, but… Clinton is getting a much-needed opportunity to make her change argument.

  83. From NBC’s Domenico Montanaro

    There will be a lot of talk of an Obama and Edwards Survivor-like allegiance tomorrow, but notice who’s not here: Biden and Dodd. Clinton is going it alone now. She doesn’t have the white-haired, longtime senators at her back anymore.

    She did not need the Dom!!!

  84. Thanks for the preview. Here on the west coast we are in the middle of the republican debate, and waiting for the debate that counts to begin.

    Thanks to your comments. I am looking forward to it very much.

  85. wbboei,
    Load up the popcorn, it’s pure entertainment. 🙂
    Also, be ready for Obama to be declared MID (Missing In Debate) by New Hampshire authorities.

  86. He might not have made any mistakes, but he didn’t do much else, he failed to respond to hillary, a slight mistake if you think of it, but what could he have said? it was true.

    But he was flat and didn’t seem to be present. JE BO were to busy complementing each other, to debate.

  87. Gorto yes, he said it was not his best moment and he would probably explain his smirk sometime tomorrow and that he appeared a little peevish, a little small and started the piece by suggesting it was Clinton’s best moment of the night and not the best for BHO.

  88. Steph also claimed, what everybody else thought was Hillary’s BEST exchange of the debate, as “not her best moment“.

    Nah, no bias there.

  89. Says Katharine Q. Seelye of the NYT:

    pundits might point to the moment when he [Obama] was asked how he would respond to another 9/11 and he failed to say he would retaliate swiftly.

  90. Admin,

    Were you keeping track how many times Obama broke into his Porky Pig impression ?

    I’ve never seen that level of stammering from him in a debate before.

  91. The worse thing that could happen to Obama now would be for Teddy Kennedy to throw off his shaw and get out of the rocking chair in the old folks home and endorse Hillary on Monday.

  92. The most important moment tonight, besides pointing out that BHO is a hypocrite due to his NH Co-Chair being a lobbyist, besides saying “change” is just a word unless you have a record of facilitating it, and besides asking the room for a “reality check” is this:

    Hillary found her pedestal for change: “I think electing the first female President would be a HUGE change.”

    (Even BHO was forced to admit that they can all bring about change — abandoning his very advantage in the process).

    This is how she is going to win these primaries.

  93. If Obama can’t handle Clinton questioning him sharply on his record and falls flat instead stammering away, how the hell is he going to deal with the Republicans when they turn their fangs on him?!!

  94. Lawdem:

    Yeah that FIRST book! talk about composite characters.

    I wonder if that “illegal Pakistani character in NY” whom he lived with is his advisor on his Pakistan policy! He is probably legal now anyway – no need for a DL!

    I wonder if that guy was from Punjab?

    But you see – it is just a composite character!!!

  95. I thought her best moment was going after Barack on that 330 million dollar energy bill. If she is creating attack ads then that is what she should have in them.

  96. lawschooldem @ 1032pm

    you should take over david broder’s column space with you own…bet you would have a much larger syndication…we would all read you regularly.

  97. Look at the fervor of positivity this debate performance has set forth among us all! We, as Hillfans, need to embrace the elated feelings we are experiencing right now and have confidence in the fact that she will prevail Tuesday. All of NH was watching.

  98. Look at the fervor of positivity this debate performance has set forth among us all!
    The presence of Hillary tends to do that. 🙂

  99. No matter what you guys read in the papers or blogs and you know the pundits will have their own spin on it, just remember that NH was watching and they know what they saw.

  100. Heh heh… Josh Marshall’s pathetic take on the debate over at TPM:


    Obama’s very solid. Edwards really tried to slam the door on Hillary permanently. She was … I’m not certain what the right word is, enraged?

    If that’s solid I REALLY don’t wanna be around when he’s off his game.

  101. Admin I can’t get the video of Hillarys ‘hurt’ moment to work, are you editing it or something? I would love to see that moment again.

    Hey people! Look at all these moments we are taking away with us from this debate! What momentc can BO take with him? ………0!!!!

  102. okay, remember i havent seen the debate yet…

    THAT LIKEABILITY VIDEO, MADE ME CRY…

    i think it really does hurt her, can you imagine trying to sleep at night, with all these nuts, saying the most horrible crap about you?

    bill and chelsey most be hurting too…

    thats okay hillary, we are going to ‘KICK THEIR ASSES’ , see if that makes us feel any better K?

  103. How can we make sure the right moment is circulated and dominates the news cycle? Apparently the RNC and I’m sure BHO/JE camps are already circulating the other moment that they describe as shrill but somehow resonated most with me. When she spoke in response to JE, she took the words, frustration, and anger that I had about this entire process and expressed them as if they were my own. What a woman! [Thanks admin for posting some of my comments on the home page, I feel so proud! And thanks Emjay for your kudos, unfortunately the column is from The New Republic (TNR) but I echo the sentiment that it was a great column ].

  104. Enraged?? Already trying to label her massive defeat of BHO as “the crazy woman attacks.” Enraged, my ass.

  105. Chris Cillizza at the WaPo “The Fix”:


    We’re fascinated to see how Clinton’s performance tonight will play with New Hampshire voters. As we wrote in The Fix analysis of the first 45 minutes, Clinton was far more animated and aggressive than she had been in all the past debates combined. When she attacks, Clinton always faces the risk of drawing a negative reaction from voters. That said, Clinton seemed to show tonight that she was willing to fight for it and that could potentially resound with New Hampshire voters who, unlike their compatriots in Iowa, tend to like a bit of combativeness in their politicians.

  106. Fox news and frank luntz focus group is bashing hillary.

    Unbelievably, they are actually saying obama was specific!!!!!
    These people don’t deserve Hillary! my goodness. They also, as I feared, mentioned that Hillary seemed angry on attacking poor obama.

  107. Gorto – BHO specific??! You have got to be kidding me. Oh well, as Caroline mentioned earlier, we are to expect this from MSM. NH voters know who scored the knockout punch.

  108. That guy was a complete loser for bringing up likability. I mean how do you respond to that? “I like me” “My husband likes me” “I want more people to like me”?
    It is like teasing on the playground “Nanny nanny boo boo no one likes you”.

    Hillary handled it really though. I hope this debate resonates with NH voters who see that an energize Hillary has and will continue to take on Republicans. Because thats what it is all about defeating the Republicans.

  109. She was … I’m not certain what the right word is, enraged?

    Hey Josh, you can’t play “Whack A Mole” without a BIG hammer.

    Looks like the Obamites can’t handle the truth, eh ?

  110. The “hurt feelings” video seems to be down for a bit on Youtube. The other video is also loading up slowly so maybe they are having problems.

    Hillary did great tonight. Edwards/Obama/media will try to twist tonight into a bad Hillary night – nothing much changes with these people. 2 more full days to the primary.

  111. joefriday

    you’re kidding! little georgie who used to have to spit in his fingers to keep his cow-lick under control-

    “geeze, i”m so happy mr and mrs clinton gave me this opportunity to do important work” georgie?

    turncoat georgie (after he was fired)

    you mean that georgie?

    he’s another one that Karma is going to get.

  112. Hi gang – my take –

    Hillary was in charge right out of the gate…she was passionate, charming, strong, prepared, confident and ready with details, not empty phrases…she looks like she means business…

    my question would be after watching that debate “who do you want on fighting for the American people and the USA in this world? she wins it hands down…she won’t back down…fearless…

    If anyone looked shrill, imo, it was Edwards and O looks like he is where he belongs and should stay in the Senate

    great night for Hillary

  113. I just watched that frank luntz video on youtube, but I don’t want to post that link, as I don’t think we need to feed it/them.

    Lets be positive and enjoy this.

    Is cnn talking about this? WHat are they saying?
    Come on people, help me out here, what are people saying?

  114. JoeFriday: Josh Marshall is for Obama but pretends like other Big Blogs to be impartial. Check out the picture of Obama on the top page and the headline: “Feel The Surge”.

  115. I remember after the last debate the candidates had in NH (a few months ago), Hillary’s poll numbers in the state skyrocketed shortly after. They like their candidates strong and combative, and a debate format really wins it for her.

  116. At least fox news excluding the luntz segment got the message:
    Link: youdecide08.foxnews.com/2008/01/05/dems-agree-on-right-to-pursue-usama-bin-laden-in-pakistan/

  117. Geez, the poor status of American mainstream media is truly amazing. When I look around at some blogs and msm outlets I’m quite certain we cannot have watched the same debate. The way they spin and lie – it’s fascinating and nauseating at the same time. How can they claim any credibility on anything ever? Well, they can’t of course. I hope a lot of NH voters saw and listened for themselves. Then perhaps Hillary can break some of the utterly undeserved momentum for The Anointed One.

  118. Did The poll Kentucky_mkt suggested.

    It shows that Obama people are better organised. Otherwise there would not so many people answering that Obama won the debate.

    Maybe European Internet showed a different debate?

    Blog on NYT is also very anti Hillary. We hope the US dont elect another clever president as GWB.

    Hillary CLNTON IS THE BEST

  119. Guys, I would suggest we ignore the spin. The Obamaite pundits ARE going to try to spin this away. But any New Hampshire voters watching saw the same thing we did, trust me.

  120. DemAC, I completely agree. We must not have watched the same debate.

    Over at talkingpointsmemo, the guy writes at one point that obama did good as he didn’t leave any of hillarys attacks on him unanswered!!!!
    HELLO!!!!! What about his refusal to counter the fact that he just hired a lobbyist for his campaign? Or instead of answering her questions of him regarding health care, he tries to change the topic to social security. etc….
    People are blinded by something, I just can’t figure out what! Because I can’t see it.

  121. HillaryforTexas,
    It’s like watching a horrible car crash. You know you’re supposed to look away but the mess and the gore and the noise make it virtually impossible to avert the eyes. The Holy Spin of The Anointed One is like a perverse freak show. You might just as well watch the spectacle.

  122. HFT. It is so frustrating. You know Edwards gets excited and raises his voice throughout his whole campaign, but whenever Clinton does it the pundits just attack her. She hit some amazing points about changing things in this country and these pundits will just comment on her newfound “rage”.

    I think if anything Hillary’s attempt to become presidents proves women in this country are look at under a much greater microscope then men. When Hillary talks it is about the tone of voice, the clothing, the makeup, the jewelry not about what she says. That is so frustrating to have to watch night in and night out on these so called news stations.

    So I hope you are right and that NH really paid attention to tonight.

  123. Chuck Todd of MSNBC (clearly off his medications):

    The focus on this debate for so many in New Hampshire and the media was twofold — how would Obama handle being the frontrunner and how would Clinton handle be the challenger. Well, thanks to a subdued format, Obama seemed to pass his test with flying colors… I’m not sure David Axelrod could have scripted this debate better if he did it himself.

    This is Hillaryous! 😀

  124. Funny how Taylor Marsh, a woman, seems to be the only one with a correct analysis. All the male pundits, after having drowned themselves in the Kool-Aid, are expressing delusion in its most laughable form.

  125. go to kymkt @ 11:33

    it’s the least we can do. and sorta fun. i learned a lot really.

    just sitting in this cozy tea room talking to each other is like
    the music in the elevator. i can’t explain what that means, but i know that it is an on point description.

    just go stick your vote in there. it’s from and by real clear politics.

  126. I would like to add that Edwards has now lost all credibility I ever gave him. Obama has attack radio ads about his healthcare plan, attacked him on being a trial lawyer, and for the 527 ads. And yet Edwards folded into Obama so easily. It is a joke and DemAC Chuck Todd is crazy, Obama handled his frontrunner status by getting beaten down by Hillary. You know it doesnt suprise me that the MSM is going after Hillary again it just frustrates me.

  127. well, I finally get to watch it. I’m glad the reports from you guys are so positive.

    Cheers!

    Now, off to the telly for me.

  128. I’ll just post in Taylor Marsh latest update, and once again she is on the money. I feared this when I watched this happen, I loved it, but I know the media would pounce. I hope, as many here have said already, that the voters will think for themselves, and also, might get a bit pissed off at the big media.

    UPDATE: To add, the exchange below will reveal if Americans are ready for a woman president. Showing fire when challenged has always been a dividing line for women in leadership roles. Has American grown up? Some will love it and some won’t. But it is who she is. Strong. No doubt Chris Matthews and the Hillary haters will judge it otherwise. Women understand it. Liberated women in positions of leadership recognize it, because they’ve seen it in themselves.

  129. the sexism and misogyny in the press is so overwhelming, yet none of patriarchal press has any idea; they just don’t get it – anyway, I am pissed at the press – just posted this in the Huffington Post to counter the Obama-bots: “OBAMA SUCKED at the debate tonight – he wilted when he was questioned sharply on his record, he wilted when Clinton told audiences that his New Hampshire Co-chair is a state lobbyist – if he can’t take the heat now (because the media just Loves Obama), what is going to happen when the Republicans turn their fangs on him? Wilt, Stammer, look scared? That is not a President, that is a media-created fraud.”

  130. i saw obama for the 1st time under attack. the repubs did, and in the spin abc showed obama’s snotty clip of himsaying hilary is likeable enough. the group i was with really took note fo that and really reacted bad to it. hillary tonight has asked for scrutiny on our candidates. all of them. she raised questions about obama on healthcare etc and then did what she has needed to do-say i am change and here is what ive done that u have not. edwards or obama could point to nothing as a lasting accomplishment. yep. not one item that has changed anythign for anyone. hillary has now gone after ob fromthe left. also-she actually why it is exciting for her to be president-she said im a woman-and being the 1st woman in the wh is change. i loved this debate tonight. and yes she agressively defended ehrself when edwards called her status quo. she handed his ass to him. so if some of the boys in msm didnt like that oh well. the girls did. and this guy did. i hope she now expands on her arguements tonight. richardson did good and bolstered the arguement of having experience very well. he had her back. but the most brillaint moment guys was the likeabilyt question posed to hillary. her smart answer-“oh im hurt u dont like me” and bo’s snark is the clip to me and shows it all. in that moment no one can deny who was likeable. obama talked about a majority with repubs and indies-that raised real eyebrows in this union home.

  131. This is the headline on MSNBC

    “Clinton accuses Obama of changing positions”

    It’s basically an AP article that circulating the internet. I have a problem with one part of it though. The writer describes Obama’s comment “You’re likable enough, Hillary.” as being “wry”. Obama said it in a dissmissive manner with his head down and in a tone of voice that I would describe as sarcastic.

  132. Well, just keep working hard, avoid the premature reports of Hill’s demise, and continue to hit every primary like it’s the General Election. Not sure about New Hampshire—-in the end if folks go with the Saint, that’s their choice, just as we idolize lot’s of empty suits and dresses these days.

    There’s that old saw that says “Anyonw who is young and isn’t a liberal has no heart, anyone who is old and isn’t a conservative has no brain.” Now, before people charge my house with pirtchforks, I don’t agree with the litral statement here. I’m not calling Hillary a conservative, but she is being sold as a “S status-quo candidate”. I do though think it points to the tendancy of many who somehow believe that magic, a neat baratone voice and good speechwriters will somehow talk us all to our collective happy places. Others of us are just as open to inspiration, but also need to to balance that side of he equation with the ablity to make things happen.

    It may be that the Easter Bunny brigade prevails in this election (I still think that’s unlikely). If so, it would be be a national tragedy. Let’s not have it be said that those of us I the second group didn’t follow Hillary’s lead by being positive and working our hearts out.

  133. Fact Hub also has backing for each and every one of her claims against BHO including the one about his NH state co-chair. He’s a state lobbyists, but a lobbyist nonetheless and I hope it turns voters off.

  134. People, I’m starting to wonder if maybe Hillary had too many good moments in this debate. That they will only show her ‘likability’ reaction, her comments regarding change etc… that they might ‘forget’ to show her pouncing obama. Have anyone seen them show her attacks like. he said he would not vote for the patriot act, then when in the us senate he did, ditto the war budget, and his co chairman being a former lobbyist.
    Will this get lost in all else, or the narrative of “Hillary enraged”….?

    She needed to get this out there to voters, and the media, i’m a little concerned it is forgotten…..

  135. hmm , ok my post with a link didn’t show up, but the hillary camp has a list of reviews already, on her site

  136. From Team Clinton:

    The Reviews Are In: Hillary ‘Very Strong Performance,’ ‘Tour De Force,’ ‘Very Effective’

    Boston Globe’s James Pindell – ‘Hillary Clinton tonight had a very strong performance.’ “I need to say this. We enter these two debates, very important debates here at WMUR with two candidates up against the ropes. Mitt Romney and Hillary Clinton. One candidate, Mitt Romney did not get off the ropes. Hillary Clinton tonight had a very strong performance, and I think she did.” [WMUR, 1/5/08]

    Washington Post’s Chris Cillizza – Hillary showed ‘she was willing to fight for it’ and that could ‘resound with New Hampshire voters.’ “Clinton seemed to show tonight that she was willing to fight for it and that could potentially resound with New Hampshire voters who, unlike their compatriots in Iowa, tend to like a bit of combativeness in their politicians.” [Washington Post’s The Fix, 1/5/08]

    NBC News’ Chuck Todd – Hillary made ‘a very effective hit on Obama and Edwards.’ “Clinton just made a very effective hit on Obama and Edwards because she was able to do as a counterpunch rather than as a direct hit. She got it out there to New Hampshire indies that Obama’s chief state supporter is a state lobbyist. And she was able to hit Edwards for not passing anything in the Senate. BTW, not sure why the moderator just inserted himself on this, but… Clinton is getting a much-needed opportunity to make her change argument.” [MSNBC First Read, 1/5/08]

    ABC News’ Rick Klein – Hillary’s gave ‘a tour de force of an answer’ on Pakistan. “Pakistan… Hillary Clinton is the first to connect it to her campaign message: ‘We have to be very conscious of all the consequences.’ She finds five consequences… A tour de force of an answer. Experience begets change. That’s the campaign message.” [ABC News, Political Radar, 1/5/08]

    The Atlantic’s Marc Ambinder – ‘Very Sophisticated.’ “HRC…gives a very sophisticated answer about the interrelationship between insecure weapons and India’s fears.” [Atlantic, Marc Ambinder, 1/5/08]

    ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos – Obama looked ‘a little peevish, a little small.’ ‘Not a good moment for Barack Obama there. I thought he looked a little peevish, a little small.’ [ABC News, 1/5/08]

    The Hill’s Sam Youngman – Hillary ‘showed a fire Thursday night that was new to her debate performances.’ [The Hill, 1/5/08]

  137. Hooray for HILLARY!!! WOW! I am watching it for the 2nd time now. This IS a tour de force. Her points on change came from the gut. She is SO in her power. She has put in some great debate performances but tonight….was perfect.

  138. Politico’s Roger Simon also has this headline on it’s main site: Clinton comes out one step ahead.

    Hillary Clinton took two steps forward in the Democratic debate here Saturday night and just one step back. So score her at plus one.

    Overall, good article for us and front and center on a MSM news site.

  139. HILLARY! HILLARY! HILLARY! I just love that woman! What a leader! What a president she’d be!

    Beyond the goosebomps:

    Hillary need to always wear bright colors from now on. They make her sparkle and look less tired even when she is.

    Obama looked actually old and graying tonight. He looks like he has aged in the past month. Maybe it was just the lightning.

    Blinkie gets the damnest expressions on his face…you just want to slip him some e-lax.

    Great night for our girl!!!!!!!!!!

  140. she was so on…In complete control of this debate. Hell, I hope she’s somewhere now puttin’ her feet up and kickin’ back. She landed a big punch on health care…Obama has changed his position, he can have a debate with himself. Then she says, Change is not about words, it’s not about a speech. Very good on Iraq…ends within 60 days I will start that withdrawl.. Man o man it is all good.

  141. i’m in the middle of this debate,
    so i’ll make this quick…

    obama and edwards keep mentioning that they won the debate in iowa right?

    they are so cocky…

    if i were from nh i’d so want to slap them down…
    nothing like someone who BRAGG, to really turn people off…

  142. A lot of our narrative made it to the debate:

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7753.html

    “In 2000 we, unfortunately, ended up with a president who people said they wanted to have a beer with,” Clinton said. “And, you know, at least I think there are the majority of Americans who think that was not the right choice.”

    Her second step forward was to use humor effectively.

    Asked by one of the ABC moderators what she would say to voters who appreciate her experience, but “hesitate on the likability issue,” Clinton put a mock-hurt expression on her face and said: “Well, that hurts my feelings. But I’ll try to go on.”
    —-
    Clinton did not hesitate to take on Obama directly. Pointing to what she called her 35-year record, she said: “I think it is clear that what we need is somebody who can deliver change. And we don’t need to be raising the false hopes of our country about what can be delivered.”
    ———–
    “You know, words are not actions,” she said. “As beautifully presented and passionately felt as they are, they are not action.”

  143. BTW, Research 2000 has a poll out tonight with Obama 1 point ahead – so not much bounce. This debate will help a lot.

    Politico has this quote:

    Clinton aide Ann Lewis: “Presidents don’t get to vote present.”

  144. Loved the debate! I was surprised that Richardson filtered the experience attack by BHO/JRE and that JRE was so far up BHO’s @$$ that it was not funny. They should have just gotten a room.

    As for the spin, meh, I honestly did not expect great press for our girl – the media still loves Obama. However, I am thrilled to see some actual fair coverage of the debate trickling through the piles of utter crap.

    Hopefully, the majority of NH saw the debate and realize the fantasy world that BHO lives in!

    GO HRC!

  145. one last thing…

    IT WOULD BE WORTH EVERY PENNIE, FOR HILLARY TO OFFER OBAMA SOME PIDDLY POST, IF HE WOULD COME CLEAN, AND TALK ABOUT THE IOWA DEAL HE MAD WITH OBAMA…

    THAT WOULD CHANGE EVERYTHING, IT WOULD BE A WINDOW TO OBAMA, IT WOULD BE OBVIOUS AT THAT POINT, THAT JOHN EDWARDS IS DOING BARACK OBAMA…

    THINK ABOUT IT HILLARY…

  146. Admin – or anyone – can ANYONE PLEASE SEND THE OBAMA SNARKY MOMENT to Ben at Politico? He has the “Clinton on the sharp defense video” sent to him by the RNC (!!wtf!!) of all people posted, and yet, nothing of a negative Obama moment.

    This is why Obama gets the edge online because his people and the RNC are immediately editing the Youtubes and sending them to the press that’s disseminating the Obama-love and building the Anti-Hillary sentiment.

  147. BREAK..

    Q-OKAY, HOW MANY CANDIDATES DOES IT TAKE TO GIVE BARACK OBAMA ENOUGH VOTES TO WIN?

    A-ALL OF THE MALES!

  148. “You know, words are not actions,” she said. “As beautifully presented and passionately felt as they are, they are not action.” – HRC

    That was one of my favorite lines from the debate tonight! It such a better statement than the “Some hope for…,” which I did like for Iowa but was a little ‘nice’ to keep up.

  149. Everybody needs to reflect on the fact that this is Hillary and also Hillary under pressure. She keeps a cool head. She sticks to the facts. She knows what she needs to say and says it. She used humor. She was firm. She called people on there bullshit. What a pleasure it would be to work with her. When she wins she’ll get more resumes in the history of humankind. She does her homework.

  150. hope she is puttin up her feet, i watch it,at friends house..just got home…i knew shed win..yes…i said it this am she been readin this site..took thee advice…good for you hillary…sleep well tonight.

  151. Roger Simon:
    “I embody change,” she said. “I think having the first woman president is a huge change with consequences across our country and the world.”

    True enough. But it invites the response: Wouldn’t having the first African-American president be an even bigger change?

    Well they are different A-hole. A president with a different color or a president with different sex organs, they are both HUGE changes.

  152. skmf12,
    Edwards is auditioning for VP to Obama… He doesn’t hate Hillary, he just bets that Obama will win and he knows anyhow that his chances of becoming Hillary’s VP are… zero.

  153. i think he just wee jealous thing she is more Intelligent..more clear on answers she gives, look at him look well they get a history lesson with her…they have no clue with her smartness and her mind is more capable of genuis type…and they both know it…..yes and that part admin made me teary eyed..

  154. I hope all the NH voters saw the debate for themselves — media is not fair to Hillary. That said, the two boys (I am going to ignore Richardson) looked like two bullies in a school yard trying to appear nonchalant and yet trying to pounce on somebody they thought vulnerable. It is kind of laughable that they needed to enter into this alliance of convenience to take on Hillary.
    There is a lot of double standard here — as another commenter elsewhere said a woman with Obama’s resume (or Edwards for that matter) will be laughed out of this race. But it is a darn shame that 35 years of experience is what is needed to catch up and then be ridiculed as status quo by these pretenders. Something is awfully wrong with this picture and I am very depressed about it.

  155. pm,
    Carol Moseley Braun pretty much had the same résumé as Obama, she was also a junior Senator from Illinios, and she pretty much was laughed out of the race in ’03/’04.

  156. skmf12,

    I don’t think Edwards will be anyone’s VP pick. He did nothing for Kerry’s ticket in ’04. Who would want to bring him along. If anything, BHO is using JRE, which I doubt they have some kind of deal. IMO, JRE wants to finish 2nd by knocking HRC down – not gonna happen though. :p

  157. pm, don’t be depressed. In a few days the primaries/caucuses whereby independents elect our DEMOCRAT nominee will be over.

  158. I love it: Can we just take a reality break here? Oh god that was good. And then she named some six things that she helped to do…where she helped to make change. Words have to be translated into action! Beautiful!

  159. Except California allows independents to vote in their primary along with a couple other states. However, Repugs are barred and no switching the day of either.

    At least my state, FL, has a closed primary! 🙂

  160. Edwards should try to make a deal with Clinton if anything, get a job from her, and influence her VP pick (someone older than him).

    Obama/ Edwards is a losing ticket. Two inexperieced candidates on the same ticket? That’s why Cheney was on GWB’s ticket. Edwards is still quite young. He will have to run against BHO again, I’m sure.

    Yeah, I think JRE wants to take HRC down.

  161. I am hung up on this double standard thing all day — I will just make one more point and then stop.

    It is about the young women (30 and under) — I am not that old — not wanting to vote for Hillary. The irony in that is all the advancement and choices that these women are enjoying today are the result of the sweat of these women. They were trailblazers in their time and now. It is the height of arrogance for these young women to not recognize that.

  162. Hillary was amazing…but I am not surprised. Folks what we are dealing with hear bottomline…is that sexism is alive and well. Underneath all the hyperbole..that’s exactly what’s going on here. If Hillary doesn’t win that will be the reason.

  163. reed061,
    I don’t think Edwards will be anyone’s VP pick either. But I do think that Edwards wants to be someone’s VP pick. And since being Hillary’s VP is not gonna happen ever there’s not many more left to suck up to.

    In a few days Edwards will be politically irrelevant and fade away. He’s got nothing to fall back upon, no Senate seat, no state level assignments, nothing. After tumbling in the epicenter of American politics for several years he’s suddenly going to be obsolete; left for dead in the primary process like roadkill left by the wayside.

    I bet Edwards’s a tad bit desperate and ready to have his nose several inches up in the posterior of The Anointed One rather than face his fate and become nothing.

  164. Also, lets not forget that Edwards is getting his advice from Joe Trippi. Perhaps the largest joke yet in Democratic politics.

  165. Even WasPo’s Kornblut and Balz had good things to say about our girl:

    Clinton sharpened her case that she has been on the receiving end of so many special interest attacks that she knows how to fend them off.

    And with the nomination on the line, Clinton explicitly mentioned gender as part of her appeal. “I think I am an agent of change. I embody change,” she said. “I think having the first woman president is a huge change, with consequences across the country and the world.” The audience at Saint Anselm College erupted in cheers.

    And includes Richardson leper quote, which I think is a great line and deserves more attention: Richardson added: “Whatever happened to experience? Is experience a leper? We want to change this country. But you have to have, you have to know how to do it. And there’s nothing wrong with having experience. So, I love change. We all are for change. But the question is, examine the record of those that in the past produced change.”

  166. reed061, but independents don’t outnumber registered democrats in CA and other states, like they do in IA and NH.

  167. I think Clinton was trying to make a larger point about gender actually. It seemed that she was going to explain how that might be different. My guess is that she was going to say that she would enlist a very gender-balanced workforce. But, she was cut-off.

  168. Obama clearly using Edwards. Could you imagine if Obama had to actually defend himself??? The thought shocks me.

  169. And to think the WashPo article and the NY Times article, which is decent, will run in all Sunday newspapers! Woo hoo! Here’s hoping the Globe has a good article too . . .

  170. Ah, good ole’ Trippi… There’s a political genious.

    Also, just my opinion, if you look at the polls, Edwards shoots up as well (he was politically dead in NH – now upper teens/low twenties). Most likely taking votes away from our girl. So, I hope those swing voters saw how ridiculous Edwards is and go back to our girl.

    (Again, just my opinion.)

  171. just a suggestion but for any of us that are up early tomorrow morning and listening to c-span washington journal 7:00 am EST (every morning), if possible call in and represent Hillary and her great debate performance, experience, etc…we don’t want the Obama people out spinning …exciting night for us…

  172. OandrewD,

    The best part was when Charlie Gibson pointed out the party versus sit-down dinner thing. And, the best they could come up with was that people would eat less. Come on…

  173. OK All – I know several of us are volunteering for the campaign, and getting out the Hill vote, and preaching to our beloved choir here, but how can we take more action – let’s write to NOW, Emily’s List, where are the spokewomen for women who can point out the double standards of the media, the studies that show that Hillary has had the most negative press?

    what gets me angry is WHY AREN’T MORE WOMEN ANGRY over this sexist, double-standard coverage of Hillary? Unfreakin believable. Emily’s list where are you? NOW where are you? The problem these days is the feminist movement has just dissipated…give women the opportunity to be VPs, CEOs, and suddenly, they’ll stop short of clamoring for breaking the highest glass ceilings.

  174. LawSchoolDem,

    Hopefully this translates into a positive article from the Globe:

    Boston Globe’s James Pindell:

    ‘Hillary Clinton tonight had a very strong performance.’

    “I need to say this. We enter these two debates, very important debates here at WMUR with two candidates up against the ropes. Mitt Romney and Hillary Clinton. One candidate, Mitt Romney did not get off the ropes. Hillary Clinton tonight had a very strong performance, and I think she did.” [WMUR, 1/5/08]

  175. She really was brilliant tonight. This performance should be a boost at the polls. Honestly, what matters is being reminded why I decided to support her in the first place. She will make a great president and I am so proud to be a supporter. I’m in for the long haul.

  176. From Marc Ambinder: “. . . but Edwards’s shtick seemed kind of shtick and as comfortable as a wet sock. A sock that got wet wading through the snow and ice in Iowa and, at the end of a long journey, needs to be laundered.”

  177. Admin – I know I’m going off tonight on my anger about the sexist press – but the fact that Hillary lost the women’s vote in Iowa to Obama 35-30 is unbelievable. Women need to carry her into Office, and therefore, women’s anger needs to be tapped into in a more women-friendly NH. There’s a strategic opportunity here that everyone’s missing, and Emily’s List, NOW, need to start pointing out the double-standards in the sexist media; where are their spokespeople. We need them now more than ever because I do believe women sense the sexism below the media surface, but perhaps they can’t express it until given the permission by media authorities. Please let whomever you know in the campaign know.

  178. Ininla,
    I have been frustrated by the same thing. Even the few female pundits seem to shy away from the issue. Every once in a while you can see in their eyes the distaste for something said but they stop short of responding to it. It’s like high school–just laugh along or the boys won’t like you.

  179. Okay, so I have to talk about narcissism some more because I do believe that Obama is the most narcissistic Democrat I’ve ever seen and I think I finally understand the dynamic of this race – at least, as the prism of narcissism reveals is.

    Most of us are vulnerable to narcissistic personality types to one degree or another. What narcissists in leadership positions do is create in-crowds and out-crowds. You sign on to the agenda of the narcissistic leader, and then you get to be part of the in-crowd. Your special insight is validated by just how marvelous the leader is and therefore you’re smarter than the people who don’t see things you’re way. You’re the chosen ones, and usually anything goes in the advancement of your cause – whatever that may be. So, it’s okay for Obama to slam Hillary because that’s what he must do to defeat the evil that she is. It isn’t okay for Hillary to slam Obama, because Obama is marvelous and he never tells a lie, and is totally trustworthy – that’s totally obvious. The fact that Hillary doesn’t love Obama is proof that she isn’t smart enough to be president or is too corrupt.

    What’s going on between Edwards and Obama is a little narcissistic tag team. Edwards signing on to Obama’s agenda, so to speak, confirms the rightness of what it is Obama is doing. It validates being part of the in-crowd. Edwards supporters, too, are now part of the in-crowd and the two camps are in unison against Clinton.

    I know the mechanics of all that are obvious, but I’ve been puzzled about the glue. I think the glue is simple narcissistic appeal – this isn’t a battle Edwards can win, because he isn’t narcissistic and simply doesn’t operate in that fashion.

    Edwards has been my second choice, and I’ve liked him a lot – he’s my second choice. He lost me tonight permanently with that little pas de deux he and Obama had going on. Really ugly stuff.

    I hope someone asks those two, considering how they are tag teaming on the front runner, if they will forswear taking a position in each other’s cabinet. I’d like to know if this is a deal to simply assure that both of them wind up in the White House. Now that there interaction has been acknowledged, let’s push for it to be a question.

  180. Watchin Hill today on CSPAN. She is making a good argument that her UNIVERSAL plan will enable young college students to get covered for a very little amount of money.

    That’s a great angle. She needs to push that.

  181. well i had a different opinion than you all have on the debate…

    i dont think hillary won the debate…
    i dont think obama won the debate…
    i dont think edwards won anything…
    and i know richardson wasnt even in the running…

    i think tonights debate did good things for all of them, and bad things for all of them…
    i think there was something in there for obamas kids, and something in there for the edwards people, and ofcourse alot, in it for us the hillary fans…

    but in the end, i think the line is drawn and the differences have all ready been made, unlike iowa, where some people hadnt made up there mind, everywhere else in the country, i think its not just the campaings that have their agenda, its also the voters…

    and for that reason, i think hillary helped her cause for the people who were looking for a reason to still vote for her…
    edwards people will be singing joan baez songs,
    and obamas people, who ever they may be, will be lighting incense and chanting…
    i also think that the independants that have their own agenda, didnt need anything from this debate, they have their plan and they are sticking to it…

    now i think for us and hillary, we saw her fight even after a defeat, and create some good kodack moments, and those will be useful to her going foreward…

    she looked tired…
    edwards looked petulant…
    obama looked satified….
    richardson looked stupid…

    the thing that i hope for, is that i noticed there were no crazy obamites in the audience, that was an improvement…
    there was no undecided caucus goers, that was encouraging…
    and i saw what looked like average adults, that didnt look to be outside the main stream world of america, and that looked encouraging…

    maybe these people will, just be normal people that will vote there convictions, and make an informed decision…

  182. I discussed this with my son (age 18) the other day. He said that kids his age do not care about the activism or the activists that got them where they are. He has no desire to be an activist but did think it was unfair that there seemed to be no appreciation for those who came before. Through that discussion, I realized that since the Reagan years the activists have been relagated to charicatures to be mocked. My 15 year old daughter thought that feminists were crazy, ugly women who burned their bras. I straightened that out pretty quickly but I recognized that my daughter would be embarrased to call herself a feminist.

    I don’t know how to turn this around but I know we must. A dialogue about the double standard applied to Hillary would be a good start.

    On a personal note, my son returns to the University of Texas tomorrow and I will miss him so much. He will discuss this stuff with me for hours. I still can’t believe I raised a frat boy (brilliant but a frat boy). I tell him that the fraternity is his way of rebelling against his DFH parents.

  183. Sittin Bull – I know…it’s annoying, and it’s this backlash against feminism that has led to accomplished women who face the same double-standards as they likely see Hillary facing each day on this campaign to abandon their own protest. There are few enlightened men (except for those on Hillaryis44) and most men think “sexism” is an urban legend. They don’t ever experience it, so they have no sense of what it is, what it feels like. Yet, it’s women and those in high profile media positions as well who are afraid to say the “S” word. It’s infuriating. Where is Randi Rhodes, where are Naomi Wolf to sharply articulate what most women need to hear – it’s bottled up, I know it. It just needs to be freed – this anger which I’m sure we all feel.

    I have never taken a Presidential campaign so personally as Hillary’s – I see in what she’s battling what I face all the time from this society. AND I know many women feel this too.

  184. DemAC,

    Carole Mosley Braun served as ambassador during the Clinton administration to Samoa and a couple other places. Here:
    http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/05/05/con05164.html

    On top of that she was a prosector for ten years as well. She had vastly more experience than Obama does now and she’s a helluva smarter as well.

    From Wikipedia:
    As an attorney, Moseley Braun was a prosecutor in the United States Attorney’s office in Chicago from 1973 to 1977. An Assistant United States Attorney, she worked primarily in the civil and appellate law areas and tried cases of national importance.[citations needed] Her work in housing, health policy, and environmental law won her the Attorney General’s Special Achievement Award. She subsequently received over 300 awards for achievements in the public interest.[citations needed] She left the US Attorney’s office in 1977 to start a family. Her adult son Matthew, is a computer engineer.
    Moseley Braun was first elected to public office in 1978, as a member of the Illinois House of Representatives. There, she rose to the post of assistant majority leader. As a State Representative, she became recognized as a champion for education, governmental reform, and civil rights.[citations needed] As early as 1984, she proposed a moratorium on the application in Illinois of the death penalty. And in what became a landmark reapportionment case, Crosby vs State Board of Elections, she successfully sued her own party and the state of Illinois on behalf of African American and Hispanic citizens. When she left the state legislature in 1987, her colleagues recognized her in a resolution as “the conscience of the House.”[citations needed] That same year, she was elected as Cook County, Illinois, Recorder of Deeds, a post she held for four years.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Mosley-Braun

  185. skmf12:

    I think it did a lot for Hillary is she takes full advantage of the exchange. The format she is now using seems well suited to reap the benefit.

    1.) Big rally
    2.) People ask questions. Independents.
    3.) Those asking questions will now ask for specifics on the things she said at the debate.

  186. hey hillfans, i got home 30 minutes ago but i have not seen the debates yet. i will soon but what i hear from here our girl did great!! YAY!!!!

  187. terrondt,

    It was a good debate and a good night. Gibson is the best moderator that the networks allow to do this. he’s fair. He’s open. He asks good questions.

    Edwards and Obama did some tag teaming on universal healthcare with Edwards attacking Hillary and siding with Obama. Sad. However, the guest moderator noted it, and made it part of the debate. Good that it’s out in the open.

    I’m wondering how this tag teaming between Obama and Edwards will work in any debate where it’s just the three of them. I’ve never seen such ugliness in a Democratic debate.

  188. Sittin Bull – I still think you can turn your brilliant frat boy son into a feminist! Had the women in the 60s turned more men, the real power structure, into feminists (thank god, Bill Clinton is one), the movement might not have dissipated. It is a reason why preaching to the choir too much can make a movement extinct.

  189. Did you guys see the vid of Hill at Merrimack Valley High School?

    She is AMAZING!

    She should have been doing this all year long.

  190. gonna watch it in the livingroom on my dvr. the wife is watchin the adventures of billy and mandy.lol.

  191. OK.. I think Hill needs to talk about it today and tomorrow. like use REAL figures of income levels where UHC was implemented. like MA. heres a comment on one of MSNBC blogs. If this is true, Obama’s assertion is a flatout rejection of the premise. Thats what Hill should do starting tomorrow IMO.

    Too bad Obama was watching football or he could have learned from Mitt Romney that – in MA – a large percentage of uninsured were people making over 75k/yr who CAN afford health insurance and that Mitt seems to agree with Hillary’s plan…because he says the market will work if coverage for all is mandated (just like car insurance is mandated by law, by the way). He may have also learned that there seem to be several areas of agreement between ALMOST ALL the candidates, for example Dems and Reps BOTH say a bipartisan energy “moonshot” is a priority that can solve many urgent problems. So, why do we need to wait til 2009???? What IS STOPPING change from being made RIGHT NOW?Could it be because the system is set up to be competitive rather than cooperative? They are not listening to one another.Edwards is right about trust and monopoly-busting. Obama is right about the power of words to inspire. Hillary is right about the importance of results. I want all of them to stay in the debates until MORE citizens can actually VOTE on 2/5. But, I thank Hillary for pointing out that there is no Patient’s Bill of Rights…despite Edwards’ efforts…and Gibson pointed out that lobbyists and Congress have already figured out ways around the “no free lunch” legislation sponsored by Obama.Everyone knows that Hillary was MORE involved in policy and decisionmaking in the Bill Clinton years than they are giving her credit for now. I think Hillary came out of this debate as the most honest…about what it takes to get results.Lastly, I am glad that racism may be dying…but I am saddened by many of the bloggers comments – and the press coverage – that sexism is still alive.Hillary – I love you forever for being able and willing to go through all the abuse to champion the people’s interests.

    look at that 75K number. what is the percentage of people who were 75K and up and werent insuring themselves. she needs to make that a point next time or even in sstump speeches tomorrow and day after!

    and I think she should do that bill 8 rallies, hill 8 more rallies once again for next 3 days and get the word out as much as she can!!!

  192. KENTUCKY,

    i absolutely agree…
    shes has some good ideas, and great new plans going forward…

    what i am critiqueing is the debate…
    i dont need the press to tell me what i already see…

    obama needed to not look like the frontrunner, and i think he did that real well, why do i say that? because barack sat there relaxed smirking, unworried, and in control of john edwards his past competitor, and he was nothing if not imperious…
    BUT HERES THE THING, his people will love that, they have drank the koolaide, and they want to worship at their feet…
    so he achieved that for those who want to worship…

    for john edwards, he was angry and petulant, he had to take second place to obama, he sold his soul, if people didnt see that, they are not very astute. but at the same time, he harbors a hope that he will somehow pull it out, at the same time he is trying to accept, the possibility and hope that he will at least be vp…but his fans still hope…

    richardson, is a mistake, and a traitor…

    as for Hillary, she was again, defined and disrespected by the smarmy little college boys…
    she was banished to the end of the table, and she was sent to the back of the bus in pecking order. it was a slap…
    she looked tired and at times disgusted. she had a target on her back again, and she had a revelation confirmed about the dirty deals…
    but, she finally confronted people with facts that she should have confronted them with months ago…
    she came out with some great new lines, and sound bites…
    she had one of the most endearing moments i’ve seen at any debate or campaign stop ever… and if she is smart, she will make sure has someone spread it around, because, if you are a woman or a young
    lady, you are going to relate to that ‘IT HURT MY FEELIINGS VIDEO’ big time…

    and that brings me to my last point, HILLARY FOUND HER MOST POWERFUL CHANGE ARGUMENT… and it was the one she had all along, the one the other side scared her from using…

    ‘CHANGE FOR ONE OF THE LARGET MINORITY SECTOR OF AMERICA, IS
    AND CERTAINLY LONG OVERDUE, IS TO ELECT A WOMAN TO BE PRESIDENT….

  193. sorry i am tired i guess.
    5th line on my last post should say: obama needed to look like the frontrunner… (ho hum)

  194. hey-does anyone have the clip of the obama snark at hillary’s likeability? Im goign to circulate that one-and it wont go well with young voters. also-edwards at one point told hillary she needed to quiet down. 3 people have now told me they heard it to. i cannot find the clip. oh what fun we could have…

  195. United12

    You and I both know that our relationship has a bit of the “sweet and sour” aspect to it.

    I’m about to make it hot and sour.

    (and i know the difference: i make the sauce, and the soup, in my own kitchen, along with sushi.)

    Let me add one more point of contention to our ongoing-whatever-it-is:

    Women (o+) are not a minority, not even the LARGEST MINORITY SECTOR OF AMERICA.

    We are the majority of the U.S.population, of the registered voters, of the active voters, of the students in law schools, of the head-of households, of the registered and class-taking graduate students…..

    and I am sure that our experienced compadres on this site could add many, many more statistics. I have more guesses, but not more for-sure catagories in my head at this hour of the night.

  196. tex4hill

    Ill golook for it …it’s either in this thread or linked from here because I saw it earlier.

    come to think of it- it may be at wmur. i’ll go y
    there first.

    keep united12 company while i’m gone.

  197. Yes, when you get ahold of any clip of Edwards telling Hillary to quiet down, you need to send it to the press ASAP.

    I just wrote this to Arianna Huffington under her daily statement, and, of course, the statement hasn’t appeared and probably won’t.

    “Arianna – can you tell me if the source of your screen shots of an “angry” Hillary Clinton on the homepage at 12:11am PT are from the Republican National Committee? I just read a post on Politico’s Ben Smith that he received video which he posted of Hillary’s sharp, yet justified defense of herself, but he openly outted the source as from the RNC. To collude with materials sent by the RNC is just completely egregious and to use it to attack a Democratic candidate of all people on a liberal site – is unbelievable and out of line. Whether I’m for Clinton or Obama or anyone – the unfairness and open bias of your website is very disappointing.”

    The other time I got censored by Huffpost was when I pointed out that Jon Robin Baitz (creator of Brothers and Sisters) showed up at a Hillary fundraiser and asked this obnoxious question about how she was so packaged in her answers. Then a day and half later, he writes a negative article on her, and I accused him on the comments section of acting like an jerk and being a Huffington Post plant. The comment posted, then was flagged.

  198. emjay,

    you are 100 percent correct…
    but than why are we treated like a minority?

    why are we always taking the back seat, why dont we make as much money, why dont we hold major positions, why dont the laws favor women even if they work or stay at home?

    we are just as smart, and honestly just as hard working, so why is our work so devalued? why dont more women have places in power…

    in my mind, we are treated as minorities when it comes to equality…

  199. hillfans, now that’s the agressive in your face hillary i want. she did great. this should hault any surge BAWAK got post iowa. she did seemed very angry about the change thing but would u be if u were attacked and ganged on all last year?

  200. why in the world is there only one of us on the supreme court,
    why are all the commentators on msnbc, fox news, and cnn men?
    why do men who work carrying heavy things make more money than women who clean houses?
    why does only mens pictures belong on the dollary bill for crying out loud? lol…

  201. skmf12 – we are treated like minorities because women still accept themselves as minorities. women devalue themselves so much that even high-powered female media personalities hold their tongues when they see Hillary being treated with double-standards they themselves experience – and pretend that they don’t know what the “boys club” is.

  202. Food for thought:

    BC needs to do an interview expressing:

    1.) what a schmuck he was for cheating
    2.) how HRC could have gained political prominence even if she had dumped him and how he would have still worked hard to elect her because of her devotion to America
    3.) how she was so strong to forgive him and how that represents the promise of women
    4.) how strong their marriage has become

    Yes it is risky, but . . .

    That is how I convinced an anti-HRC female Democrat to support HRC. She was not supporting HRC before because she stayed with Bill. There are probably others out there like her.

  203. OMG kentucky,

    two things, that article on math totally hit home with me…
    when i was young, i was a++ at english, writing.ect…
    but when it came to math, i was slow, so i was scared of it…
    i would get to a point, where i would draw a complete blank and not
    be able to connect…

    growing up, i thought i was stupid…
    the more i worried about it the more i hated myself…
    it affected me when i applied for a job, cause if they had a math test, i wouldnt apply for the job…
    yeah its true, math can really bring a woman down…LOL

    now about the bill thing, i would have done it! i would have talked about the dynamics in a marriage that could have lead to it…
    many people probably have already been through it in their own marriages…
    how healing would that be for the nation? it would be a betty ford moment…

  204. Tex4Hill

    found it–the sharpest image, best sound.

    go to ra1029 @ 11:37pm for the link

    it’s wmur, the originating broadcaster. has the question, her response, BO’s snark and all the good stuff that followed…I said at the time she did a great job of channeling Julia Roberts and stopped “showing leg” at exactly the perfect moment.

  205. emjay,

    perfect observation, cause i felt the same thing, it wa touching, but at the end it turned into a very coy, charming, and even a little sexy kind of a moment… good for hill, shes got some sex appeal

  206. Ha! Tammy Bruce said on the O’Reilly Factor that Barack Obama is the new Jimmy Carter!!!

    Now, she is an odd cat. She is a lesbian Republican and pro-Giuliani, but come on . . . how long have we been saying that.

  207. now if i could just find the clip of edwards telling her to quiet down. i know women of america would really love that one.

  208. She also argues why BHO will not be president. Her argument: he will never attract the swing voters because he is not a credible CIC. It seems like she wasn’t trying to hit HRC, but did not defend her either. She just touted Guiliani and she seemed sincere. From where I sit, I think if Guiliani’s strategy works and BHO is the nominee, the former wins. Dems here would vote for the NYC mayor over BHO. Many, many have voiced that to me.

  209. What do you all think if she were to take that tack? Say something like, none of us running are anything special. If a politician says something, it has been said before. You know, I am a lot like Bill. Not 100%, maybe ideals. My friend Bobby Kennedy Jr. says I am a lot like FDR or his father RFK. Some people say that BHO is a lot like JFK and many others compare him to Jimmy Carter.

  210. you know whats a big shame?

    the writers strike, because hillary should do ‘SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE’…

    shes smart and funny, and people love you after you do SNL…

  211. kentucky,

    are you thinking she should point out that ob is like jimmy carter?
    as an ex first lady, i dont think she should invoke the name of a past democratic president, not if she wants to use him as an insult…

  212. yes, but i was careful in how i framed it. make the insult the nothing special, include a compliment, and let people infer what they want about jimmy carter.

  213. i just cannot get over bo’s talk about bringing in repubs for a bigger coalition etc.. um this is a dem party dude.

  214. come on folks…surely someone tivo’ed the entire debate.

    let’s find it for tex4hill and make her day.

    the bit where johnny-boy tells Hillary to quiet down.

    +++++++++++++++++++++=+++++
    United12

    i’ve got your back my friend.

    I don’t know the answers, and think i’ve been in the battle longer than you. Have always felt I had one foot in one decade, which means an era, really…and one foot in the following decade, almost a world away from the one in which I was born.

    Some times, one just spends so much time and energy in the trenches, one doesn’t even know there’s a real war going on, much less the tactics, strategy, and battle lines….sort of like the grunts in a 2-sided, guns and bullets war over territory..some days you know why and what you’re doing, Other days, you just keep doing what you’re trained to do, with no feeling of swelling pride.

  215. kentucky,

    kentucky, they could spin that…
    if someone else does it thats one thing, if she does it, they will be all over that…

    but i like the rfk line pretty well…

  216. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) Campaign Event in Penacook, NH (1 hr. 52 min.)
    Penacook: Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY) speaks at a campaign event in Penacook, NH.
    Saturday

  217. Emjay, agreed. I think there are a lot of things under the radar and they may not manifest until after NH.

    Some people said Fred Thompson won the Repug debate. He is being advised by Mary Matalin.

  218. emjay, i have a boo hoo story for you, and its my own…

    i had one parent die when i was young, i had the other spend my entire live in san quentin…

    i married a man who beat me very young, i left with my child…
    i had no house, no money, no higher education…
    no family, other than my son…

    i live in california, its expensive, i rent, i make what pays the bills, but i will never own a home, i will never have anything of value to leave my child…

    i used to work to jobs, take public transportation, and carry my groceries home on the bus…
    i cried when i would walk past the pretty houses, and fine yards, i still do once in awhile…

    i’m a native of this country, and i see people from other countries, who can’t speak english drive around in mercedes, and jog in front of their beautiful homes… if i go to the doctor, i usually see one of them…

    my son wanted so much to go to college, instead he got a job at 16 and help me support us… his boss years later, told me, he used to come in and beg for more hours, he told her he had to help his mom, cause she was working two jobs, and he was worried about me…
    he used to go to school, go to work, and walk miles home late at night,
    he graduated but he never went to college…
    he still works like a dog…

    i once tried to get public housing, i didnt qualify cause i made to much money for assistance…

    alot of women work two jobs, raise kids, and live in sad circumstance, they still make half the wage of a man…
    and for some reason cant make ends meet…

    i want hillary to change life for women, and children…

  219. Good morning, Hillfans. I watched the debate live, have read through everyone’s comments here and at TM, and on behalf of my fellow New Hampshirites, I have to say that Hillary absolutely rocked it! It was telecast on ABC, which is our local WMUR Channel 9. I am sure that many were either watching intently or taped it watch later. We do tend to be early-to-bed-early-to-rise types. It will have an impact on Tuesday’s outcome.

    On a related subject:

    Perhaps I’ve missed reading it somewhere, but can someone point me to something explaining EXACTLY how it was that Obama came to speak at the 2004 DNC convention. I did read somewhere that it was okayed by Kerry but there had to be someone who proposed the idea of Obama speaking. Since we know that the Chicago Daley machine and Obama share Axelrod in common, was it Axelrod? — because at the time he was also acting as John Edwards media adviser and he appears to be the puppetmaster. Do we have Axelrod and Edwards to thank for having Obama in our midst?

    And if that is the case, is this why Edwards is so smugly sure of himself for the long-haul?

  220. DemAc: my reaction to the debate posted @ TM:

    Taylor–I have been a lawyer for many years. I make a distinction between what is alleged and what is actually proven. And, I could not help but evaluate tonight’s debate in those terms.

    In my view Hillary succeeded in every respect: she was charming and witty as Begala suggested; she showed a detailed understanding of key policy areas; defined change in terms of action as opposed to words; cited her own 35 year track record of positive actions which produced real change; showed she can deliver on day 1; and properly objected when her opponents tried to introduce misleading evidence.

    In sum, Hillary proved to me that she is an experienced leader, who understands the challenges facing our country, and is capable of delivering effective solutions from Day 1 of her presidency. Q: Isn’t that what we really mean when we say we want “change”?

    Now I take nothing away from John and Barack: they made very inspiring speeches; they were passionate in their views; offered great tutorials on trustbusting and the hypnotic power of words; they supported each other in every way-as the Moderator noted; they smiled and were very likeable. If this were a beauty contest rather than a presidential debate, they would both be Mr. Congeniality.

    But, I must tell you that in my view neither one of them proved he was ready to be President. For example, the answers they gave on Pakistan and Defcon hypotheticals did not connect the dots nearly as well as Hillary did. And, when they were asked for examples of what they have accomplished in their brief Senate careers, that shows they are qualified to be President, the ones they came up were unpersuasive and effectively rebutted by Hillary and Moderator.

    My judgement is for Hillary.

  221. B Merry, I thought I read it in Mendell’s biography. I tried twice unsucessfully to post the quid pro quo involved in Obama’ 2002 Iraq war speech. People seem to have forgotten this smack down BHO got from Mccain.

    McCain’s Letter to Obama
    In the midst of the drive for ethics and lobbying reform legislation Sen. John McCain attacked Obama in a letter for failing to join McCain’s bipartisan group to discuss and aim to implement reforms. McCain was writing in response to a letter from Obama that read:

    “I know you have expressed an interest in creating a task force to further study and discuss these matters, but I and others in the Democratic Caucus believe the more effective and timely course is to allow the committees of jurisdiction to roll up their sleeves and get to work on writing ethics and lobbying reform legislation that a majority of the Senate can support.” [23]
    McCain responded:

    “I would like to apologize to you for assuming that your private assurances to me regarding your desire to cooperate in our efforts to negotiate bipartisan lobbying reform legislation were sincere. . . . “I’m embarrassed to admit that after all these years in politics I failed to interpret your previous assurances as typical rhetorical gloss . . . “I understand how important the opportunity to lead your party’s effort to exploit this issue must seem to a freshman Senator, and I hold no hard feelings over your earlier disingenuousness.” [24]
    Obama wrote back, “puzzled”:

    “I confess that I have no idea what has prompted your response. But let me assure you that I am not interested in typical partisan rhetoric or posturing. The fact that you have now questioned my sincerity and my desire to put aside politics for the public interest is regrettable but does not in any way diminish my deep respect for you nor my willingness to find a bipartisan solution to this problem.”
    Two days later while sitting at the same table to present reform proposals to the Senate Rules Committee McCain and Obama publicly made up with each other. McCain stated, “Sen. Obama and I are moving on.” And Obama, used some humor to defuse the situation by referring to McCain as “my pen pal.” [25]

  222. The disconnect between what all of us saw tonight with our own two eyes in the debate adn what main stream media is supposedly reporting about it shows how completely corrupt and delusional they have become.

    Why would anyone listen to them on any subject ever again? Why wouldn’t any woman who has ever experienced this kind of thing not say to herself there but for the grace of god goeth I? The place to deal with it is at the voting booth

  223. CD99, thanks for that. I think that the BHO-JRE tag team issue runs deeper than just what we saw last night. As my husband said, they needed to get a room and perhaps JRE is looking for some side action in the WH (snarky? yes, but an interesting observation coming from my barely-political spouse).

    admin, HRC surrogates need to be asking absolutely everyone from now until Tuesday night why BHO needed JRE to back him up in the debate? What does this tell us? Can he not handle something this simple on his own? Does he always have to have a backup? Can he not function with his handlers and speech writers in tow? What does this say about JRE? Is he bucking for bridesmaid again? particularly since we know how well that went last time around.

    Additionally, why does it require a tag-team of two men to take on one woman? If each cannot stand on their own against her, how in heaven’s name do they expect to take on the Rep candidate in the GE regardless of who it is?

    Another observation is a film clip from the debate that should go up is the one when the Dems came on stage to join the Reps. BHO gladhanded with Reps, with a particularly warm and fuzzy grip and grin with JRE, then as he walked past Hillary, he gave her a begrudging, downcast (and grim-faced) handshake without any conversation and headed straight to the edge of the stage where his public was waiting.

    Another observation is that the BHO cheerleaders were missing from the audience. Hillary got the laughs and cheers and applause. I will watch the tape again today, but I saw BHO getting no “love” from the audience. Why?

    1. My guess is that the WMUR tickets had all been spoken for well before Iowa.
    2. ABC/WMUR controlled the attendance by controlling the admission tickets.
    3. BHO failed to pack an audience like he has everywhere else, even in Milford at the Dem dinner. No imported Chicago crowd. No busloads of students and Kool Ade drinkers.
    4. The cheering BHO crowd outside the event was not there this time. The clip shows an ocean of Hillary signs and a pausity of BHO signs.

    On Faux & Friends and ABC/Boston this morning the BHO-JRE tag team was brought up. It was so obvious that the MSM simply HAS to discuss it. Unfortunately, the females on F&F wanted to discuss Hillary’s handling of the likabilty answer but got pushed aside. Too bad, but to be expected–testosterone rules.

  224. b merryfield, great post. the farther this iodiot is away from chicago, the better. what are your feelings about nh? i will get a better feel monday or tuesday afternoon. again, be carefull of the exit polls. don’t believe them. we should get hard voting results.

  225. penn on hillary blog posted discounting the obama bounce. i don’t know if i have much confidence in his logic. anyway i put up a ra ra post there.

  226. politcal wire reporting bill bradley to endore obama. im not surprized. he was beaten by clinton’s vp and may be still bitter. i was glad gore won every primary against him in 2000. EVERY STATE.

  227. I am sorry but Penn needs to stop putting so much focus on the polls and let his candidate just go out there and let it rip.

    After yesterdays debate, I feel so liberated. Even if HRC doesn’t win NH, I know in my hearts of heart, she is by far the best candidate for the job.

  228. caroline, i agree. she did a fabulous job in the debate. despite as usual being tagteamed by these glory twins, she held her own and pushed back the garbage they were spewing. im streaming one of her rallies on cspan from saturday. i think bill o’reilly was in this one.lol. that was funny becuase o’reilly is one of her biggest naysayers.

  229. BMerry, as for how exactly Obama got to do his 2004 speech, I think there was a lot said about that in the Chicago Tribune profile — that long one with maybe 8 or 9 “parts” each divided further.

    Here’s a link to the beginning of “Part 8” about his time in the US Senate. If you can find a link to “Part 7” it might be there.

    Also other major media such as Washington Post and NYT have done long profiles, and the New YOrker did a long interview in late 2006. I expect you have all those links already but if not they’re in cites at my LJ.

  230. From David Mendell’s book on Obama:

    The author acknowledges a number of positive Obama traits, including his “abiding sense of social and economic justice.” But the book offers occasional unflattering anecdotes and this frank assessment:

    “What the public has yet to see clearly is (Obama’s) hidden side: his imperious, mercurial, self-righteous and sometimes prickly nature … He is an extraordinarily ambitious, competitive man with persuasive charm and a career reach that seems to have no bounds.”

    The Harvard Law School graduate is far more politically driven than his calm, bridge-building public persona would suggest, according to the book. It recounts how the former community organizer effectively elbowed out a state senator in 1996 for her legislative seat. Obama sought a promotion to congressman in 2000, but lost to incumbent Bobby Rush in a humbling primary defeat.

    In late 2002, Obama was jockeying for position, too, when he gave a speech opposing the anticipated U.S. invasion of Iraq during an anti-war rally organized by lakefront liberal Bettylu Satlzman,_ Mendell writes.

    He said Obama wanted Saltzman’s support and hoped she would encourage political consultant David Axelrod to help with his potential U.S. Senate bid.
    http://www.sj-r.com/News/stories/14158.asp

  231. Caroline & terrondt, Thanks. It could be more competitive if Richardson gets out and throws his support to Hillary. I am sure that is not happening. If Hillary is not the nominee I could never vote for either of two jerks. I would vote independent or stay away.

  232. feb 5th, lots of CLOSED primaries=clinton victory. this so called illusion of indies and repugs voting for obama in the primaries is nothing but mischief greated to derail hillary. these guys will turn back to the gop in the general. these guys expect me to believe droves of gopers all of a sudden jumping in the dem primary at the last moment are forgeting bout thier rightwing views to support a lefty. no way.

  233. we need to see if hillary got a post debate bounce. this may not be felt until monday, for sure tuesday. fingers crossed.

  234. hey everybody,

    I’ve been an avid reader of Hillaryis44 for a while now, and I just wanted to let you all know that the work you guys have been doing has definitely given me the strength and confidence to fight back against a lot of the anti-Hillary sentiment surrounding me at my school (and w/ people I know).

    I loved her performance in the debate, and I’ve been really pissed (especially at huffpo) at how they’re trying to typically twist Hillary’s passion into some sort of hysterical freakout. It’s disgusting.

  235. lol, i gotcha clintondem. i think kostner said months ago the primaries would be much hard for hillary to win than the general. i thought the other way around. damn, he was right. once hillaryget in the general it is going to much easier. no landslide, but easier. guys any bets on bloomberg running or is he bidding his time, waiting for the primaries to pick a certain nominee?

  236. Oh yeah, and I also wanted to say that I totally love the “where’s the beef?” argument from a previous post here, and Obama totally reminds me of Billy Flynn from “Chicago”… (if anyone remembers that movie/musical)… Pretty much the Chicago lawyer who throws glitter in everyone’s eyes to disguise the fact that he usually has little-to-no substance. I think “Razzle Dazzle” sums up Obama’s candidacy… everything he talks about has already been said by Martin Luther King, Jr… except now it’s covered in sparkles.

  237. I suffered through Russert the MTP this morning. To me, he seemed gleeful about Obamas dismissive remark on Hillary being likeable (no surprise there).

    Terrondt, I agree with you on a female winning the white house. Still, Hillary has been a trailblazer and is historic for that reason alone. If Hillary does not win, I think she would still go on to become senate majority leader or something. Perhaps she will run again in 2012. If she is not the nominee this time I think she should go all out to be the the formost female political leader in the United States.

    I am not being pessimistic, please don’t flame me, I’m just voicing what I feel is a realistic opinion–My feeling is that Hillary is facing a huge uphill battle to be the nominee..I think that there are just too many factors at this time in history that have conspired against her. She is clearly a capable person more than worthy of the job and should still have a major role in the fate of our nation. I will still support her. I will encourage others to support her. I will continue to hope that she does well in the primaries but in all honesty, I think that if she does not win New Hampshire, it’s not likely that she will get the support to prevail. It just doesn’t seem to be in the cards.
    Of course, unforseen events can happen that change the course of the race. A world event, a big misstep by Obama, and unforseen ghost from his past..all these things are possible. But we shouldn’t ignore the reality of the situation which is that she is in a big fight and may not prevail.

  238. americangal, i agree. i know some on this site will say no gloom and doom, this and that. we stillthink hillary can pull it out, but every person who runs or supporter has to think the possiblity of losing becuase if they say they don’t they are LYING. nothing in life is a sure thing(even though the general is almost sure hillary winning). i hope people here don’t take is a being defeatists. we are seeing a massive effort on the right and left to make sure this great woman does not take it all. look at edwards, he wants the presidency so bad, but is really ready to give it up to derail hillary from winning it. AGAIN, before anybody questions my motives i still think feb 5th is the way for hillary.

  239. AmericanGal:

    You’re right. It is an uphill battle for Hillary, but she still has a greater chance of getting the nomination than anyone else. That’s a fact. Obama has the momentum, I agree, but I don’t believe NH is as decisive as you think it is. Of course, it would be nice for Hillary to win NH and be done with the contest altogether. In fact, my gut feel is that she will take NH even if it would not be a landslide (as I had expected before). But even if she doesn’t come out on top in NH, she’s still competitive and I’m still confident of her chances for the nomination.

    Big Media is sooo behind Obama’s candidacy, it’s unbelievable. But, let’s admit that a competitive Democratic primary creates a better narrative (translation: better ratings). They’re spoiling for a fight, and they’re finally getting it. Having gotten what they were looking for, I don’t believe that Obama will get the free media ride for long. Post-Iowa and most especially post-NH, win or lose, Clinton will get a fairer shake (I don’t think it will ever be balanced – there’s just too many in the media who are playing partisan hack for Obama).

  240. nobody asks about rezko. what is up with that? god knows the if hillary was in with the crook big media would be all over it.

  241. Anduril919, the big media is not going to vet BHO as long as Hillary in the race. One of their objective is to get rid of Hillary.

  242. AmericanGal, She could win if MSM would be even handed. I also suffered through MTP this morning. I think there would be more scrutiny of BO if he wins NH primary. As far as the coverage goes NBC seems to be the worst. Thare is no doubt Russert and company hate Hillary. I wish our campaign has a more effective spokesperson. I would like to have some one like Paul Begala represent us.

  243. I think some big supporters if they are that, should come out now and shake this up — like Buffett, Ted Kennedy, or Biden or anybody else who can counter balance the delusional media impact on this race.

  244. pm, those are not going to do it. If they come out they may support BHO. believe or not. sometime I feel so depress that people like richardson and biden would make deal with BHO.

  245. terrondt, I think they may not like the idea to have a democrat president. once BHO become nominee, foxnews may do the job.

  246. http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/340929/obama_friend_neighbor_and_associate.html

    Two years ago, Iraq’s Ministry of Electricity gave a $50 million contract to a start-up security company – Companion- owned by now-indicted businessman Tony Rezko and a onetime Chicago cop,Daniel T. Frawley, to train Iraqi power-plant guards in the United States. An Iraqi leadership change left the deal in limbo. Now the company, Companion Security, is working to revive its contract.
    Involved along with Antoin “Tony” Rezco, long time friend and neighbor of Democratic Presidential hopeful Barack Obama, and former cop Daniel T. Frawley, is Aiham Alsammarae. Alsammarae was accused of financial corruption by Iraqi authorities and jailed in Iraq last year before escaping and returning here.
    Sources in December told the Chicago Sun-Times the feds are investigating Rezko’s dealings in Iraq. Aiham Alsammarae, who lives in the Chicago area and was a college classmate of Rezko, is a dual U.S.-Iraqi citizen. He left his post as Iraq’s electricity minister in May 2005, about a month after Companion got the contract.
    Companion’s contract called for it to fly 150 Iraqis to the United States for police-type training. Among the subjects: how to shoot AK-47 rifles.

    Frawley, 56, was a Chicago cop for seven months in 1977. He has owned businesses that sell resins to make plastic bags. He is a friend of Rezko’s former business partner Daniel Mahru, an attorney for Companion when it got the Iraqi contract. Frawley and Rezko owned Companion, according to two sources. Frawley wants U.S. officials to persuade the Iraqi government to honor the contract he signed on April 18, 2005, when Aiham Alsammarae ran Iraq’s electricity agency.

    Chicago Media, responsible and politically aware list Antoin Rezco as a “contributer to Obama’s Presidential campaign”. In fact the relationship is somewhat more involved than that. This exccerpt is from an article I wrote for Associated Content some months ago:

    In June, 2005, Barack Obama and Antoin “Tony” Rezko purchased adjoining parcels of land in Kenwood, IL. The Junior Senator from Illinois paid $1.65 million for a Georgian Revival Mansion, $300,000 less than the asking price. On the same day, Tony Rezko paid $625,000 for the adjacent undeveloped lot.
    In July, 2006, in an effort to increase the size of his side-yard, and for the purpose of building a fence, Barack Obama paid Rezko $104,500 for a ten foot wide strip of his land.
    Political fundraiser Antoin Rezko in under indictment for seeking kick-backs from firms. He is known as a promoter of gambling interests. Obama has steadfastly voted against gambling concerns.
    Obama and Rezko have been friends for several years, and have occasionally dined together in a foursome, with their wives

  247. The reality of the polls (and Iowa) is that Independents (and some Republicans) are supporting Obama and that is giving him his edge plus his overwhelming support by young adults is icing on the cake. As pointed out on one of the morning news shows this morning if this were a regular election year (not a “change” year) the huge numbers of votes Hillary won in Iowa would have given her an overwhelming victory there. We would be looking at a whole different race is that situation. Right now she is still the overwhelming favorite of Democrats but that isn’t enough in this year of change. Obama’s appeal to other votes is a mountain in front of her.

    The situation is what it is and frankly I don’t see how she overcomes these facts. I think that if she continues onward she may win some states on Feb. 5 but will it be enough to win the nomination? I dont’ know. And, given how Obamamania is sweeping the news, will she even maintain her edge in those states to win? More and more people will be getting on his bandwagon including high profile endorsements. With continued wins the black vote will switch to Obama along with more independents and youth. Again, I ‘m not being pessimistic but I think we need to be realistic about what she is facing. There are always unknowns but sometimes things are just the way they are. Obama is right about this being a historic time–people do want change and unfortunately for Hillary he is doing a better job of tapping into those feelings. Such is politics….

  248. I can’t imagine OB’s supporters posting defeatist crap after ONE contest. They haven’t been front-runners for very long, and they were positive when they were behind everywhere.
    It takes over 2,000 delegates for the nomination, so no one will be placing a laurel wreath on anyone’s head Tuesday night, no matter WHO wins.
    What if Hillary had that defeatist attitude? She’d concede the nomination to OB on Wednesday morning, with 4 times as many delegates as he has. The old line still holds true, “Don’t believe the hype”, it’s about DELEGATES and no one can win the nomination without them.
    I can understand that many of you felt that this would be a graceful procession towards the nomination, but if you study the history of the process (and go back a little further than just 2000 and 2004) you find that everyone loses some contests and that there is a lot that can happen between the first caucus and the convention.

    Having the expectation of a cake-walk makes the current adversity harder to deal with than having steeled oneself to a long arduous emotional roller-coaster that this campaign actually is. Living and dying over each and every political commentator and blogger’s daily diatribes diverts one from the long view that an actual campaign must take in order to maintain some semblance of order and sanity. No one ever won anything hedging their bets or preparing for defeat.
    Accepting the fact that your choice may lose is something you should be doing going in, and should serve to MOTIVATE you to your best efforts to prevent that outcome, not tossed out like a security blanket at the first signs of adversity.

    Much of the defeatism here is borne of that false belief that this would be easy. Now that it’s clear that we are in an actual contest, and not a parade, and that we’re going to get bloody, win or lose, we will see who shares Hillary’s fighting spirit and deep-seated belief in what we must do to restore the greatness of America. Yes, we might not prevail, but that should have been clear from day one. We’re in a fight now and you don’t run away from a fight that matters, nor do you take a dive after the first couple of punches. Yes, we may not prevail, but I for one, will go down fighting for the very last delegate, to the very last day of the convention. This is the most important election of your lives folks.It isn’t just about Hillary, but what her message embodies and represents. We may win and we may lose, that’s the way it always goes, but I would be disappointed to see that the Obama supporters I have been reading and listening to for months are made of sterner stuff than our side is.

  249. AmericanGal, BHO doesn’t seem to have a huge bounce coming out of Iowa. Tuesday will be a huge test that majority of royal democrat stay with Hillary. the mysterious of the out-of-state students to caucus in Iowa. Could it be most of the youth are out of state students? ( the product of chicago machine).

  250. One further thought…I appreciate that Obama is a gifted speaker. I think we all probably agree on that. Some people are inspirational orators. Like everyone, I liked his speech at the 2004 convention. What I find worrisome, however, is that no one want’s to look beyond the words. As I tell my friends at work (who can’t believe I wouldn’t be an enthusiastic supporter) the issue I have with Obama is “who is he”. What is his true character? Does he have what it takes to be President? With so little experience, how can we tell? And, I have found that his supporters don’t even want to hear those questions. I have even been accused of being a racist because I don’t support him! It’s unbelieveable…..

    They also touched on this on one of the morning political shows. The pundits there said that the desire for change is so great that people are willing to take the risk on Obama and his lack of experience. If that is true, we should all hope and pray that he will be able to be an effective leader otherwise we will just have another potential George W. Bush.

  251. People, I am not being defeatist or pessimistic. I am a rational person. I am most decidedly NOT an Obama supporter. You wouldn’t believe the grief I take from colleagues over that fact.

    I support Hillary wholeheartedly. I want her to win New Hampshire and do think that she has a chance of that. We don’t know how the independents will vote. McCain is picking up steam…that’s good for her. Also, if she does win, that will give her more push to go ahead and be successful in the Feb. 5 states where she is ahead. I think she will surpise those who think she can’t still be competitive.

    But I think it OK to look realistically at the big picture. We just cant ignore the obstacles that are out there. It’s not some kind of slam.

  252. My understanding is that Rahm Emanual suggested to the Kerry campaign that Obama speak at the 2004 convention.

  253. amaricangal, last night i have this nurse a bigtime dem. we became politcal friends during the 2004 election. anyway i have not talked to her in year or so then she asks”so what is up with our guy obama?” lol, she assumed i was for him. me being black and all. she went on to say hillary treats obama bad, im like what about the garbage he been slinging. lordy, this guy to some cult-jesus, jim jones type guy. like his you know what don’t stink.

  254. i give rahm emanual credit. here he is a big time mover and shaker in illinios politcs but he have not endorsed obama yet. he has loyalty to hillary that these other clinton turncoat **holes don’t get.

  255. Rhetoric is not results, talk is cheap is what Team Clinton is going to stress . . . CNN had a live shot of several thousand waiting in line to hear our girl! Looks like a good crowd to rival that of BHO’s yesterday at the same location . . . we’re in it for the long haul, let’s stay positive . . .

  256. Terrondt, that’s the opinion I see out there all the time. It’s something beyond Hillary and is fueled by the media worship he gets. I’ve never seen anything like it for a political candidate and I’m 50 years old.

    I do look forward to the primary on Tuesday. If Hillary can win New Hamsphire that may change the dialogue a little in the media. She will be the “comeback kid” and maybe then people will start listening to her more closely. She is bringing up the hypocrisy and flip flops of Obama now. If that takes hold it should at least tighten the race more and would keep her support solid in the bigger states when she is ahead. I could see her winning the nomination through those Feb. 5 states in that situation.

  257. Thanks, theRealist. I especially like what you wrote here — “Living and dying over each and every political commentator and blogger’s daily diatribes diverts one from the long view that an actual campaign must take in order to maintain some semblance of order and sanity. No one ever won anything hedging their bets or preparing for defeat.” because I think that may have been what many of us are doing and we should stop that.

  258. Edwards vowed to stay in the race through the convention (regardless of whether he wins any caucuses or primaries)
    thepage.time.com/

    Are Edwards’ supporters writing HIS obit? Hell no, they are in it for the long haul. He understands that it isn’t just about the individual, it’s about the issues. Whoever the democratic nominee is, the PLATFORM that they run on is what we’re fighting for. It isn’t about a cult of personality like Obama, it’s about what Hillary stands for. A person can embody a cause, but a person is not a cause in and of themselves.

    Say what you will about Edwards, he has the right attitude about the process.

  259. I watched Fox news Sunday and I am watching this week on ABC. I sense that the media is becoming more sympathetic to Hillary.

  260. TheRealist, I think that you are correct that we need to stay motivated. I just think that looking at what we are facing is a good spark for that. I have no doubt that those working for Hillary in New Hampshire, South Carolina and the other states will be a big part in her success. I know Hillary will fight to win every day. We are seeing that in her debate performance last night and in her new speeches. No one is saying Hillary should give up and no one is writing her obituary.
    She’s a fighter for sure.

  261. clintondem99, only foxnews and abc. I don’t watch TV since I found out Chris Mettews hate Hillary. If I do I watch foxnews. Unfortunately, foxnews don’t have much on democrat.

  262. meiyingsu, u are correct. even though foxnews is closest to so called”fair” they still have a gop bend to them but i would watch them. fred barns can be an *ss towards hillary to be sure. hume, kondrake right of center guy, and that other lady from npr is the closest thing they have to a dem wich is not saying much. bill samon-hard right, and kystol-hard right. juan williams, a right of center turncoat if i ever saw one. given that they are far better than most of the msnbc or cnn. only kieth olberman is great to hillary.

  263. Just watched the entire debate. Hillary was great. She was the only one there who was able to forcefully argue the merits of her candidacy. Skillful as Obama is as an orator, he really sounds positively boring in debates. Edwards sounded shrill as ever. Hillary was able to make all the arguments stick and show her incredible grasp of the issues. Richardson was the moderator.

  264. Anyone tivo Reliable Sources with Howie Kurtz? You Should. He is addressing the issues of issues of vetting and the Big Media’s bias like no one else. He is a lone voice in the wilderness right now and he should be getting our support for getting the message out. He got Halpern to admit that Big Media HATES Hillary. He ridiculed the guy from Slate for hyping Obama as “The most likely next President”, based on ONE caucus…

  265. i watched most of the gop debate for kicks. it got so bad for romney i almost felt sorry for the poor bast**d.LOL. i said welcome to the big media and anti-leader club.

  266. agree, watch big media rally around mccain. he is the new,old, and now new flava of the month now. i think big media is having a little dislike to romney. nothing like the hillary hate. but you get the feeling this guy according to them is too slick, too perfect hair, too shifty, and to pretty boy for their tastes. when big media starts to dislike you. look out.

  267. With Steve McMahon on MTP with Mike Murphy, it was like having TWO Republicans on. Then I discover that McMahon was a Deaniac, which explains the hostility to the Clintons.

  268. hillfans, i wonder how is the absentee voting is doing in nh. no doubt a lot of the voting began before iowa. just a thought.

  269. I have been on the sidelines for sometimes and I have loved being on the site, but I would like to second TheRealist. I am an optimist and I think Hillary will prevail. Note the numbers of the indies in the new reliable polls versus that in Iowa. I think there is a story. Another thing that we ought to focus on is whether the voter can register on the day of the primary. Unless I am wrong, I think that is not the case. In there lies the advantage. I don’t believe Obama can win in the south, New York and California and so I think Hillary can still bounce back in the event she lost the next four states. Call me an optimist but I have a lot of confidence in Hillary.

  270. Ha! Two callers on CSpan just thanked them for their coverage, and blasted MSNBC for their totally biased coverage. One was an Edwards supporter, and one said that Obama might as well be sending a big check to MSNBC for advertising him.

    JoeFriday, people have been duped into thinking that Hillary is the insider. Wrong. The Clintons have ALWAYS been outsiders to the DC establishment, especially the Beltway media. Bill’s rise to the presidency was a fluke, for which they made sure he paid dearly, and all the firepower is out now to make sure it does not happen again.

  271. TheRealist, is Reliable Sources on CNN?

    I read that CNN is rerunning the entire debate tonight so if you missed it you can watch there

  272. Politico is reporting this: On Meet this morning:

    Last week we had Barack Obama and Mike Huckabee on “Meet the Press.” This week we had John McCain. We invited Sen. Clinton — she declined our invitation. Doing very few media interviews — I am told that she might be doing “Access Hollywood” on Monday.

    Timmie is throwing a tantrum . . .

  273. I am not surprised that Timmeh is stomping his feet. Anytime a woman walks away from an abusive relationship, the abuser always gets very affronted at the nerve of her.

  274. It’s not a must win for Obama. He’ll almost certainly win SC.

    I thought Hillary did very well in the debate, and I’m very proud of her. I loved the likeability clip, and the shots of Chelsea in the audience, too.

    I have to say I echo what AmericanGal says about the hurdles. Hillary has been ganged up on for months now, and Obama winning Iowa hasn’t changed a thing.

    Edwards is colluding with Obama because he thinks he’ll get the VP nod. If Obama promised him that, Edwards is a fool for believing it. And what’s Edwards going to do if Obama reneges? Go public like a crybaby?

    Once Hillary is eliminated, Obama will squash Edwards like the bug he is. And I will have zero sympathy for him.

  275. My overall point is, the forces arrayed against Hillary are enormous, and the fact certain pundits say she was “angry” at the debate just prove the misogyny is out there. A male candidate who does that gets praised for being “tough.”

    The RNC made a video of Hillary’s “anger.” The woman isn’t even the frontrunner anymore. Yeah, they’re really scared of Obama, aren’t they?

  276. Bill Clinton told Terry McAuliffe he’s never seen a presidential candidate attacked like this, and I’m in complete agreement. We should never underestimate Obama’s prodigious political skills, but he’s doing all with help from the other Dem candidates, the media and the GOP. That makes his job a helluva lot easier.

  277. The good things is that CNN will be reairing the entire debate so that the nation can see for the themselves that Hillary won the debate instead of the spin that the pundits are putting it on it.

    c’mon all – strategy to win!!!! Now, NOW – Edwards needs to be taken out – has anyone found this video of his shushing Clinton in the Debate – as I said, this is Edwards’ Rick Lazio moment, and it HAS TO BE disseminated quickly to the press – if Clinton’s campaign is not trying to do this, they are taking too high of a road. If women see this, they will get angry – and not only that but any collusion by a sexist Edwards to be Obama’s VP will only taint Obama.

    Last night when I noticed the Ben Smith on Politico posted the “shrill angry” video of Hillary and Smith admitted that it was from the RNC (I give him credit for being open about that), I now see the fingerprints of the RNC all over the so-called “liberal” media. The Facebook Democrats and the liberal blogosphere is being lead by the nose anonymously by the RNC – and no one sees it. The Republicans are insidious, insidious.

  278. Paula, there was that recent study by The Project for Excellence in Journalism, a non-partisan, non-political group that examined primary coverage by the MSM. Their conclusion: Hillary got 2x as much negative coverage as Obama. Did you see this study discussed anywhere on the news? No….

    http://www.journalism.org/node/8187

  279. meiyingsu, I am completely unsure on that. Because if they figure (as I do) that putting BO in the Whitehouse is basically the same as putting a very moderate Republican in there, then they may decide they want him.

    Then again, they may pull all the Rezko and Chicago stuff out of the files where they’ve been sitting on it and go to town tearing him down.

    Either way it is bad news for the Democratic party.

  280. Return to the Article

    January 06, 2008
    Clinton Makes Her Pivots
    By Tom Bevan

    There were two interesting pivots made by Hillary Clinton in last night’s debate, one seen and one unseen. While most people are focusing on her angry exchange with John Edwards at the beginning of the debate, it was a single line near the end that represents Clinton’s new angle of attack against Obama: “Words are not actions,” Clinton said, adding, ” And as beautifully presented and passionately felt as they are, they are not action.”

    For months, Hillary Clinton has tried to play the experience card against Barack Obama – to very little effect. But simmering just under the surface throughout the campaign is the feeling among the Clintonistas that the freshman Senator from Illinois is a poser: a man who knows how to talk the talk but does not walk the walk. Clinton’s new angle – “words are not actions” – taps into that sentiment in a way the experience argument did not, and it pushes back against Obama’s core strength of being seen as an effective agent of change.

    Much to Clinton’s surprise, Obama played directly into this new angle last night by circling back to defend the power of words. “The truth is, actually, words do inspire,” Obama said, “words do help people get involved, words do help members of Congress get into power so that they can be part of a coalition to deliver health-care reform, to deliver a bold energy policy.” It’s an eloquent response, to be sure, but something Clinton can use to flesh out the new contrast: it’s not experience vs. inexperience, it is action versus words and achievement versus rhetoric.

    Clinton’s second pivot took place in the spin room after the debate, where Clinton spokesperson Jay Carson deftly took John Edwards’ attack on Hillary and turned it into an indictment against Obama.

    “When presented with a direct challenge from a competitor in a general election debate, you can’t count on one of your primary opponents to jump in and defend you,” Carson said. “And Senator Obama had an opportunity there to stick up for himself. He didn’t.”

    With his slashing attack against Clinton in the debate, Edwards sought to align himself with Obama as the two agents of change in the race squaring off against the status quo. Two hours later, however, the Clinton campaign had spun that attack around, aligning Hillary with John Edwards as one of the two “fighters” in the race versus the pushover, Obambi.

    Action versus words, tough versus weak. Whether this angle of attack will halt Obama’s ascent is an open question. But the pivots executed by the Clinton campaign last night play much more to her strengths – and to Obama’s potential weaknesses – than anything she’s tried thus far.

    Tom Bevan is the co-founder and Executive Editor of RealClearPolitics. Email: tom@realclearpolitics.com
    Page Printed from: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/01/clinton_makes_her_pivot.html at January 06, 2008 – 10:10:09 AM PST

  281. The things said in the 15 years of Hillary bashing have taken hold even subconciously. When I made calls for Hillary recently to registered Democrats in my (Feb 5) state, I got a lot of negative feed back and laughs when I mentioned her name.
    Most don’t even know WHY they dislike her, they just know that they are SUPPOSED to hate her because she is “bad” but they can’t give a real reason.

    I did get a lot of comment about how Hillary was going to ban amunition…not guns?? I’m hearing this argument over and over even with family in a neighboring state. Yes, I know…but Hillary does need to address this banning bullets thing no matter how trivial it might seem. Somehow it rolls right off when I talked with family, friends and neighbor about Obama’s questionaire opposing even the possession of handguns. They listen and then counter with the bullets/Hillary thing.

    If Obama is not investigated and vetted very soon, it will be too late. Once the voters drink the kool aid their ears close up and they hear nothing else ever. If the Rep wait until the Dem nominee is chosen and if it is Obama, it will be too late for them as well.

    I love this site and am so impressed with how smart you all are. Your ideas are great. Thanks for all you do for our girl.

    Sorry about my slow computer.

  282. LOVE IT!! Obama caught in a lie…now being reported by the MSM..

    thepage.time.com/

    Who is Jim Demers?

    “In Saturday’s debate, in the face of an explicit charge from Clinton, Obama denied that his New Hampshire co-chair Jim Demers is a lobbyist for the pharmaceutical industry: “That’s not so.”
    In fact, as you can see here, it is a true fact that Demers is registered to lobby for Pfizer and PhRMA.
    In an exclusive interview by The Page with Clinton aboard her campaign bus Sunday she says, “You can talk a great game about how you are really standing firm against the special interests and then when it becomes inconvenient that you actually have a lobbyist running your campaign, you deny it.”
    Obama campaign repeatedly declines Sunday to explain Obama’s debate denial or address Demers’ lobbying role for the industry”

  283. Southern Born, I never even heard that ammunition thing. Geez.

    But you are right, I’m afraid. I know Dems who don’t like Hillary (men, BTW), and they can’t give a reason either.

    I think her campaign thought they could get people to know the real Hillary, just like they did in NY, but the media bias against her and for Obama has pretty much blown that effort out of the water. That’s not the only factor, of course, but it’s a big one.

  284. AmericanGal, that’s good to see, but I bet it will end up like to Hopefund thing: ignored by pretty much everybody.

  285. Pundit watch: Just interesting, probably meaningless comments but it caught my eye on another website:

    from the McLaughlin Group: Eleanor Clift said that “there will still be a gut check with Obama, and don’t write Hillary off yet.” Buchanan said coyly that “I know what’s coming Eleanor” with a sly grin.

    Republicans are mentioning something coming for Obama a lot lately…most likely anticipating their attack lines if he becomes the nominee I guess.

  286. Americangal, I wish we could make a million copies give to every body in NH. May be they can show it local TV or make a campaign commercial.

  287. Everyone, go to Taylor Marsh’s site and look at the AP photo on her front page. It shows Hillary standing alone while the three guys are talking. The imagery is unmistakable.

    Also, the analysis story on yahoo talks about her fighting back in the debate. That’s the kind of headline I want to see.

  288. Last nite, when Hillary was making the point about change is not just talking about it, it’s not just hoping for it, and it’s not just demanding it, it’s actually delivering change, it reminded me of the Seinfeld episode when the rental-car agent doesn’t have the car he had reserved:

    Jerry: I don’t understand, I made a reservation, do you have my reservation?

    Agent: Yes, we do, unfortunately we ran out of cars.

    Jerry: But the reservation keeps the car here. That’s why you have the reservation.

    Agent: I know why we have reservations.

    Jerry: I don’t think you do. If you did, I’d have a car. See, you know how to take the reservation, you just don’t know how to hold the reservation and that’s really the most important part of the reservation, the holding. Anybody can just take them.

    Exactly.

    Anybody can just TALK about change, but who has already DELIVERED the change ?

  289. rjk1957, Zogby polls are showing the bulk of indys will vote in the Dem caucus. I think we need to be prepared for that. The Repub race just doesn’t excite anyone; it’s a pretty weak overall field.

  290. Paula-

    How depressing. What if by some, “miracle”, we win NH? What does that do to your doom and gloom scenario? Do you still believe that OB will win SC and that a win in SC, or NH and SC (Total # of delegates at stake:SIXTY-SEVEN) constitutes the basis for elimination?
    It’s frontrunner syndrome. This I’m not a quitter, but I give up stuff makes me embarrassed for Hillary. Talk of Hillary being ELIMINATED from contention based on a couple of contests is just nonsense and indicative of swallowing Big Media’s narrative hook line and sinker.

    Big Media told us McCain was the early favorite, then that he was DEAD, now he’s a favorite to win NH and Romney, who was the favotite, AFTER
    Rudy was the favorite, is on the ropes. Huckabee was a joke to BM, who discounted the Iowa straw poll in the summer because he didn’t fit into their narrative of the race. What do you read about one time favorite Rudy lately? These are all examples of how unpredictable the twists and turns, the ups and downs of a presidential campaign.
    My Idol, Robert F. Kennedy didn’t win every primary. Bill Clinton didn’t win every primary. The bum who is president today didn’t win every primary.

    I’m sorry that you and many others are so down so soon after all the confident and positive talk and vibes only days ago. Little has changed. The BM was no less against Hillary last week than they are this week.
    There has been one contest, and we lost. How we deal with adversity is a window into the soul. Greatness comes from overcoming adversity, not succumbing to it. It’s easy to be positive when everything’s going your way, but champions are positive whether everything is going their way, and MORE POSITIVE when things get tough.

    Joe Montana-one of my all-time favorite football players is considered to be one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time because of how fearless he was in the face of adversity. If he was down by two touchdowns with 4 minutes left on the clock, it was his opposition that was nervous, Joe was a cool as a cucumber. He was behind, he wasn’t DEFEATED. His performances when his team was losing are the stuff of legend and the main reason for his reputation as a winner.

    I feel that Hillary, Bill and their team have that attitude and that potential for greatness. Win or lose, you don’t put up the nice try flag and go home, you fight with all your heart to the very end. It’s the fight that matters, not the result. No one knows the future, no one can assure the outcome, but they can assure that they will try with all their might to fight for their cause, for what they truly believe in, and not run away or fall victim to self-pity.

    To those who feel the need to prepare for defeat, who feel that they are only being realistic, I’m THE Realist, and I’m telling you now that the only thing that preparing for defeat accomplishes is to ensure defeat.

  291. Another quote from somewhere else–I watched MTP earlier but should have included this statement as it shocked me as well. I hope this isn’t some kind of future spin the media is going to be saying about Hillary-it’s reprehensible.

    “One can’t expect much from MTP, but this was simply ridiculous. I think it was McMahon who stated something to the effect Hillary needed to consider whether it was wise to push on into February because if she won at that point, it would tear the heart out of so many who had put their hopes into the Obama movement and the drive for the first African-American President. Not a single panel member pointed out what an absurd statement this was. The first woman with a real chance at becoming President isn’t supposed to fight for the office. It was OK and even laudable for Edwards and Obama to attack Hillary, but turnabout is unfair play.”

  292. thepage.time.com/2008/01/06/who-is-jim-demers/

    Who is Jim Demers, co-chair of Obama’s New Hampshire campaign?

    “In Saturday’s debate, in the face of an explicit charge from Clinton, Obama denied that his New Hampshire co-chair Jim Demers is a lobbyist for the pharmaceutical industry: “That’s not so.”
    Watch the exchange here.
    In fact, as you can see here, it is a true fact that Demers is registered to lobby for Pfizer and PhRMA.”

    “Obama campaign repeatedly declines Sunday to explain Obama’s debate denial.”

  293. Obama campaign repeatedly declines Sunday to explain Obama’s debate denial. The Page, 12:54 PM

    See, there may be clouds, but the SUN is still up there.

  294. TheRealist, I admire your optimism. Even if Hillary wins NH, which she is certainly capable of, I believe Obama will win SC because of the large African American population (he’s improved his standing among black voters markedly). However, before that comes NV, so if she NH and NV, she’ll have consecutive wins going into SC, so a loss there wouldn’t be a huge deal, I don’ think.

  295. The Demers story is spreading, and Hillary is outlining Obama’s record to the voters.

    I quote Ben Smith:

    politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Clinton_Obama_is_not_change.html

    Clinton: Obama is ‘not change’

    This morning in Manchester, she invited Mark Halperin onto her bus (!) for a brief interview, in which she blasted Obama for incorrectly denying that a top New Hampshire supporter, Jim Demers, is a lobbyist. (That fact isn’t news, Obama’s campaign says (after the jump) he was denying a broader implication.)

    And she just rolled into Nashua, to the same venue Obama visited yesterday. It is, as yesterday, packed, after a major effort to bring people out. I won’t venture a crowd count or comparison, though Clinton claimed 3,500.

    Here, she crystallized her new case against Obama (with a passing shot at Edwards), going at his strongest points: His opposition to the war, his identification with change:

    If you give a speech saying you’ll vote againt the Patriot Act and you don’t, that’s not change.

    if you say you’re going to prevent members of congress to have lunch with lobbyists sitting down, but they can still have lunch standing up, that’s not change.

    If you say you passed the Patients Bill of Rights, but you don’t mention it never got signed into law, that’s not change.

    If you rail against the special intersts…but you voted for Dick Cheney’s energy bill, that’s not change

    If you gave a speech — and a very good speech — against the war in Iraq in 2002 and then by 2004 you’re saying you’re not sure how you would have voted, and by 2005 six and seven you’ve voted for $300 billion for the war you said you’re against, that’s not change.

    She contrasted that her accomplishments she said had affected people, taking credit for the children’s health funding known as SCHIP and for getting healthcare for guard members and reservists, among other things.

    And she quoted Mario Cuomo: “You campaign in poetry but you govern in prose.”

    And the crowd is huge and noisy and into it, a physical reminder that there’s a race going on here.

    Response on Demers from Obama spokesman Bill Burton:

    She was trying to conflate his public statements on federal lobbyists with an attack on Obama that was not an accurate reflection of his views on the issue. Demers’ occupation is a well documented fact that is mentioned in numerous news stories in which he is quoted talking about Obama and it has been reported in that context multiple times on the campaign trail.

  296. AmericanGal, That McMahon statement is patently absurd.

    But this just a blatant reflection of people who really ought to know better believing it’s somehow wrong for a woman to be as politically ambitious as a man.

  297. I think Hillary framed the contrast between the candidates very well. It is not experience VS Inexperience

    it is Action Vs Talk. I think this how it should have been framed all along.

    Action VS Talk

    It is Action stupid

  298. Everyone keeps forgeting about Michigan next week. Hillary is the only one of the 3 on the ballot. The party will relent beofre the convention and seat the delegates she wins there.

  299. People , would you PLEASE stop it! Yes, I know the media is unfair. And all of us post some stuff sometimes about negative media coverage, and that’s fine. And we all get worried, and are allowed to express that.

    But please check yourself. If your last 3 or 4 posts have been “OMG, it’s so bad, it’s so awful, she’s gonna lo-ooooose!” then please take that negativity elsewhere. Or if the whole thread is full of a whole lot of negative venting at the moment, maybe it’s best if you don’t ADD to it right now, hmmm? If you can’t handle losing one primary, maybe even 2 or 3, without falling apart into a whining mess, then you have none of the guts and determination that our gal deserves.

    Jeebus Crispies, I’m going over to Taylor Marsh, because right now I have the choice of reading venom from nutkooks, or crying and fear and handwringing on here. NEITHER one is helpful. Buncha whining candy ass babies.

    Then I am going to see if I can make some calls for Hillary.

  300. I have no idea what Bill Burton is saying in his denial. Obama said the guy wasn’t a lobbyist and Hillary called him on it. The point is, Obama’s denial was a lie – unless I’m missing something.

  301. I’m still new to this site, but where is Alcina (Alisha?) to KICK OUR ASSES AND OUR ATTITUDES IN SHAPE – we have to FIGHTS GALS – win or lose, we know the media is colluding to bring down our gal, and the RNC is spoon-feeding the liberal blogs and the Facebook Democrats with hate, and sexism is rife in the male-dominated press – we have to BE ANGRY at these elements, and INSPIRE THE WOMEN of the country to feel it too.

    I had a conversation months ago with someone who worked for Al Gore, and she said, he was not planning to run because of how the mainstream media treated him. We cannot let this happen to our gal. We have to FIGHT, and while preaching to our own converted, CONVERT OTHERS to see the truth.

  302. Yes, clintondem99, the contrasts are great, I agree. In fact, the one about lobbyists having lunch sitting vs. standing cracked me up.

  303. OK, I read this somewhere but can’t quite remember where — that Obama’s campaign chair in SC is a lobbyist and I had not heard about NH chair until yesterday.

  304. Let us analyze the Obama campaign’s recent statement.

    Response on Demers from Obama spokesman Bill Burton:

    “She was trying to conflate his public statements on federal lobbyists with an attack on Obama that was not an accurate reflection of his views on the issue.”

    According to the Obama campaign, one is not allowed to conflate state lobbyists with federal lobbyists, even if the former implement the legislative goals of the latter in state legislatures. Because Obama regularly cavorted with state lobbyists, he views them as a crucial, indeed key, component of the legislative process. This explains why they chair his state campaigns and his steering committees. Because Obama embraces state lobbyists, his “views on the issue” can only be one predicated on the technicality of their registration with the US Senate. In other words, federal lobbyists are to be shunned, while state lobbyists are to be rewarded for their advocacy for the special interests who have bundled donations to the Obama campaign.

    “Demers’ occupation is a well documented fact that is mentioned in numerous news stories in which he is quoted talking about Obama[,] and it has been reported in that context multiple times on the campaign trail.”

    A news report does not exonerate a campaign from the allegation that they are beholden to special interests. In fact, it raises questions the Obama campaign should answer, especially if the Obama campaign did not relieve Demers of his various duties after claiming they desire to rid government of the influence of lobbyists. Because Demers’s occupation “has been reported” in multiple articles in which he discusses Obama’s candidacy, one wonders why he is still a member of the campaign.

  305. pulchritude – thanks for posting that from politico – that is a GREAT SPEECH, A GREAT SPEECH – much of which I didn’t even know even as I’ve dug around for Obama’s hypocrisy for months. A laundry of list of Mr. False Hope’s hypocrisy.

  306. Paula, People do not make the connection very well unless you could illustrate it with examples. According to sandiego union tribune:

    Foreign policy and national security are a president’s top responsibilities, especially in time of war. Obama is devoid of experience in either field. His gaffes – threatening to invade Pakistan, offering prompt negotiations with anti-American despots – bespeak his amateur standing on matters vital to the safety and security of the American people.

    Obama’s inconsistency on Iraq is amply documented. He’s been alternately for and against withholding funding for the troops, for and against setting timelines for withdrawal, and for and against a quick retreat from Iraq.

    Whatever one’s views on Iraq strategy and homefront support, these vacillations on a war in progress don’t inspire confidence; in Obama’s judgment, his grasp of Iraq realities and his constancy of purpose. Whatever this is, it isn’t leadership.

    All of this betrays Obama’s lack of experience; a glaring deficiency that should be raising profound questions about his qualifications and fitness, at least now, for the presidency.

    Then there’s the disturbing disconnect between Obama’s carefully crafted persona as a unifier and a supposed “trans-ideological” agent of change, and his actual record in office.

    Obama is running, quite effectively, as both a change agent and an unconventional politician. That fits his campaign motif, a fresh-faced, idealistic outsider running against the Washington establishment voters so distrust. That, in turn, also suggests that Obama is a different kind of Democrat; one perhaps less reflexively partisan and divisive than, say, Hillary Clinton or John Edwards. Certainly that was an implicit message sent in his eloquent Iowa victory speech.

    What’s troubling, however, is that Obama’s record doesn’t match his reassuring persona.

  307. pm: BHO’s national co-chairman from SC is a lobbyist as reported by MSNBC: Obama’s campaign proudly announced today the endorsement of former South Carolina Gov. Jim Hodges who will join his campaign as a national co-chair.

    But the endorsement of Hodges may raise eyebrows among those who support Obama because he strongly decries lobbyists on the stump, frequently saying that he will not let them work in his White House or set the agenda in Washington.

    Hodges is the founder of Hodges Consulting Group, a state-based lobbying firm he started in 2003. The firm is a subsidiary of Kennedy Covington Lobdell & Hickman, L.L.P, a law firm that represents clients in North Carolina and South Carolina.

  308. go New Hampshire! – give the rest of the country a REALITY CHECK. Do what the press isn’t doing – scrutinize Obama. And Go Ron Paul, Go McCain (wink, wink)!

  309. obama and edwards both are very holier-than-thou on the lobbyist issue. they don’t walk the walk, they take money from state lobbyists and spouses of lobbyists and employees of lobbyists etc. all while decrying how they won’t be any part of their campaign or administration.

    thehill.com/leading-the-news/
    sen.-obama-finesses-his-lobbyist-ties-2007-04-19.html

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/
    article/2007/aug/21/Obama-lobby/

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/
    chi-070412obama-money,1,6037417.story

    and as for PACs, let’s not forget obama’s PAC used as a slush fund to give money to state/local officials in the early states.

  310. Clinton Fights back in New Hampshire Pro Hillary article

    seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1131AP_Democrats_Rdp.html

  311. OK.. try this video.. for internet savvy’s.. please make a youtube out of it and forward it to as many people in NH as you can.

    thepage.time.com/sen-clinton-talks-with-time/

  312. Watching Bill on C-SPAN. He just related a story about a woman in Arkansas who’s campaigning for Hillary because Hillary helped her adopt kids after she found out she couldn’t conceive. It almost brought tears to me eyes.

    Everybody in this country should know about the real Hillary. EVERYBODY!

  313. Response on Demers from Obama spokesman Bill Burton: ‘She was trying to conflate his public statements on federal lobbyists with an attack on Obama that was not an accurate reflection of his views on the issue’.

    In other words, they are lying about Obama’s lie.

  314. Iowa caucus winners fail to impress to local party leaders
    Democratic chair says Obama lacks experience, GOP chief prefers Romney
    Benjamin Ray, Staff Writer
    517.437.6017

    Based on results of the Iowa caucus from Thursday night, the most popular candidates in that state are Democrat Barack Obama and Republican Mike Huckabee. Neither is the candidate that the Hillsdale County political party committee chairs want to earn the nomination.

    Rosemarie Schneider, chair of the Democratic committee, was a little surprised by Thursday’s result that had Illinois Sen. Obama winning the Iowa Caucus over former U.S. Sen. John Edwards and a third–place Hillary Clinton.

    Schneider, as well as Republican committee chair Neal Brady, said what happened in Iowa is not indicative of what will occur in New Hampshire, let alone the entire country, as primary voting begins.

    Personally, Schneider said she would want someone with experience to win the Democratic nomination, which Obama does not have, since he is a one–term senator.

    “I think he’s capable and I like him, but at the same time I lean toward experience,” she said. “Whoever takes over is going to have a tremendously difficult time.”

    Schneider added that the top three winners all are worthy of being president — and she said they each have a good chance to beat whomever the Republicans nominate.

    “I don’t think the Republicans can (win) or will,” she said.

    http://www.hillsdale.net/stories/010508/news_20080105007.shtml

  315. I just had to post this from the comments of board of Politico:

    LOL There’s that word again. Maybe if Obama actually answered a question with specifics his rhjetoric about change wouldn’t seem so empty. And of course, no one has backed up their “vote for Obama for change” cliche with any substance. I hate when candidates run on “hope” and “change” but don’t back it up with specifics.
    Right now, this is what an interview with Obama would be like:

    Q. Why are you running for president?

    A. Because I believe we need change.

    Q. What would you like to change?

    A. The way things are done in Washin

    gton. We need someone who is going to inspire hope.

    Q. Hope for what?

    A. Hope for change.

    Q. Change from what?

    A. From the way things are done in Washington.

    Q. How would you change things?

    A. By giving Americans hope.

    Q. Hope for what???????

    A. Hope for change.

    Q. Okay, let’s move on. Your views in most cases are similar to other Democrats and especially similar to Hillary Clinton’s. What sets you apart from those other Democrats?

    A. I think what sets me apart is that I recognize that we are not red states or blue states, but the Unites States. What sets me apart is that I represent change.

    Q. Change from what? I just said… oh, never mind. Next question. You have said that we need a brand new direction in this country. What direction would you take us in as president?

    A. The direction of hope.

    Q. Oh dear Lord. Wow, um, okay let me be more specific. You have said that you would employ the help of former Clinton administration aides as well as Al Gore and Bill Clinton himself if he offered. How does that represent a break from the past and a break from Hillary Clinton?

    A. Well, uh, let me just say, that when you’re a black guy named Barack Obama and you’re running for president, you gotta have hope.

    Q. You have also said that you will agree to unconditionally talks with Iran and other hostile leaders and will consider nuking Pakistan. Now you say you will improve our diplomacy. Is that flip-flopping?

    A. No, that’s change.

    Q. Okay forget this, that’s all the time we have. Thanks for nothing. Is there anything you’d like to say?

    A. Get out there America, and vote for change! Oh, and hope!

  316. BTW, I know we’re all down on ARG because of their bogus Iowa polls showing Hillary ahead, but look at what ARG’s Dick Bennett says about the DMR poll:

    Conventional wisdom on the Internet is that the final Des Moines Register poll accurately predicted the official outcome of the Democratic caucus. When the results of the Des Moines Register poll are compared to the results of the Democratic entrance poll, however, it becomes clear that the party composition of the Register’s Democratic sample was deeply flawed.

    From the Register poll:
    The support from non-Democrats is significant because a whopping 40 percent of those planning to attend described themselves as independent and another 5 percent as Republican.

    The entrance poll shows, however, that only 24%, not the 45% in the Register’s sample, of Democratic caucus participants were independents or Republicans. That is a “whopping” polling mistake.

    Contrary to what the results of the Register’s poll suggest, Barack Obama did not exclusively energize and turn out a wave of new caucus participants.

    If the results from the Register’s poll are adjusted based on party composition of the entrance poll, the Register’s final poll results would be Obama 30%, Clinton 29%, and Edwards 24%. Using the final caucus results that include only the viable candidates, Obama picked up 8 percentage points of second choices (thanks in large part to the Richardson campaign), Clinton picked up about 1 percentage point, and Edwards picked up 6 percentage points.

    Obama’s margin of victory in the final delegate tally had more to do with the energy generated by the non-viable candidates than it did with his own campaign.

  317. I don’t know if this guy has valid information but he says Kerry is going to endorse Obama very soon

    ruralvotes.com/thefield/?p=115

  318. AG-
    So, post your own unattributed rumor that Kennedy and Kerry are set to endorse Hillary and hopefully someone will post it on an Obama website to bum them out. There have been Ob camp rumors about Kerry and Kennedy floating around for a couple of months with absolutely no truth to them.

  319. American girl.. they are all rumours.. remember the richardson rumour.. they pulled out another similar rumour yesterday.. LOL.. dont buy these rumours.. they are crap.. I dont see a single reason why kerry would endorse obama.. if anything kerry will just keep to himself..

  320. yes, post the rumors about Kerry – let em fly. hey all, it was pleasure to watch the debates with you last night, and to make it easier LN stands for Ellen, so LNinLA.

  321. Hilfans: just wanted to let everyone know that I just got back from phonebanking to New Hampshire voters. I’m in Mo.but we have opened our Mo HRC headquarters here in St. Louis. While some people just said they didn’t want to hear anything anymore from any campaign (one lady said she had had 7 calls since 9:00 a.m. @ about 1:00 P.M.) most people listened to me. I think it was about a 50/50 split on people who said yes they would support her and no I’m voting for someone else. For those that I could pry information from about the “other” I had two men tell me they were supporting McCain, no one told me they were voting for Obama or Edwards. Now this is a very, very small sample but somewhat encouraging.

    I also called women here in St. Louis. The area is elderly (l guess like me!) and Catholic. One lady told me that she wouldn’t vote for Hillary because of the abortion issue. I asked her if she knew the other candidate’s position on abortion and she told me “No.” I explained that both Obama and Edwards supported a woman’s right to choose. She was surprised by this. She said she would have to think about it. Anyway, that’s my news for today.

  322. Remember that 44% of the NH electorate are registered independents. Hillary will win majority of democratic voters, whatever the outcome. There is a very good chance that you can’t win the nomination if you can’t get the majority of your own party to vote for you. It’s the main reason why John McCain has an uphill climb all the way; While he has lots of support among indies, he is among the LEAST popular with republicans.

    Hillary’s people in NH should have a group helping the Paul and McCain GOTV campaigns, as a vote for Paul or McCain is one less for OB.

  323. I can not see Kerry endorsing Obama. Bill campaigned for Kerry in 04 putting his own health at risk after bypass surgery. Kerry has to remember that and if he doesn’t I am sure those around him will remind him of that fact.

  324. oh im so tired of these rumors-remember many kennedy frmr staffers work for team hillary. and kerry? how would that help-he blew the on eeletion we desm should have one. he si a nice guy-but a gaffe laden windbag. he ran a horrid camapign . i have little respect for kerry. hillary has some of the greats with her incl rfk jr.

  325. “There is a very good chance that you can’t win the nomination if you can’t get the majority of your own party to vote for you. It’s the main reason why John McCain has an uphill climb all the way; While he has lots of support among indies, he is among the LEAST popular with republicans.”

    Exactly.

  326. Ron Paul has raised $20 million in the third quarter – I hope that means a helluva of a campaign and infrastructure in NH.

  327. grandmother, your story is one of the kinds that never fails to shock me.

    People who are so certain in who they will not vote for (usually hillary), but then have basically no idea why they are voting for someone else.

    That she would be so opposed to hillarys support of womans right to choose, and for a second think that the other dems would be against a womans right to choose, really just goes to show that some people just shouldn’t be allowed to vote!!! It should be a quiz first 😉 see if you qualify to vote, if your informed enough!!

    By the way, I’m watching her town hall appearance as someone posted a link to earlier (thanks), and she is great, and she had the most wonderful answer to an abortion question I had yet to see, should have been enough to even change conservative republicans to their minds on this one!

  328. Bill Clinton has pointed out that Hillary’s indy numbers took a beating in NH because of the all the attacks on her by the Repubs (through ads) and others. Right now, they’re almost nonexistent.

  329. by the way, I liked the post from this woman, I agree with her, that this more feisty version (shall we say the true, version) of Hillary is one I love.
    Although she also writes, it’s the version so many americans love to hate.

    huffingtonpost.com/erin-kotecki-vest/how-hillary-can-win-me-ba_b_80053.html

  330. The ARG poll in NH out today actually has her leading narrowly among Dems but losing very badly among indys. That’s consistent with other polls there.

  331. sure, here it is: campaignnetwork.org/search.aspx?Sec=P&ID=3

    just click on the one that says, campaign event in Penacook.

    A bit slow start to it, but a few light moments as well, and she greets Bill O’ !! It’s a bit long, I’m gonna watch the rest of it tomorrow, but I love it, she just gets so much information into her answers. And she speaks relatively fast, and no uh’s or aah’s…. compare this to “mister tung dipped in eloquence” (puke)!!!

  332. linla thanks for the heads up regarding that article on hillaryhub.

    Now I wish there is video of this, I want to see this!!!!

    Love this:
    “I’m here in Nashua, New Hampshire at a Hillary Clinton event and stop the presses. Wait a minute here. Barack Obama has a challenge to his “rock star” status. There are over three thousand people jammed into this High School Gymnasium and this place is rocking. Shouts of “Hillary, Hillary” were everywhere. Even when Hillary started to speak, people here wouldn’t stop shouting for her. Hillary came on stage and you could tell she was blown away by the size of the crowd. These people here believe she can win New Hampshire and go on to win the nomination.”

  333. Paula, isn’t that the same ARG poll that had Hillary winning Iowa by 12 points? I can understand your doom and gloom but reading it post after post from you is tiresome.

  334. Caroline, I was just making a point about indys. In other words, Obama isn’t exactly wowing Dems, contrary to what the MSM would have us believe. 🙂

  335. I’m also glad to see her venues sites are bigger now so she can accommodate the crowds who want to see her.

  336. yeah paula, im kinda sick of seeing obama crowds huge as heck and hillary crowds fitting in firehouses. geez. gives the wrong impression she does not have broad support.

  337. On CNN they showed a clip of the end of a news conference. When it was over, Hillary went over to reporters and actually hugged a big guy that looked like he had on a blonde wig. OH MY GOSH! I think it was actually Stewie. Hope his mental condition is not contagious!

  338. rjk1957, I sincerely hope you aren’t referring to me, because if you are, you’re way off base. Otherwise, no offense taken.

  339. Looks like she’s cultivating the media now, lol. I love that she gave that exclusive on the Demers lie to Mark Halperin of Time.

  340. LOL.. paula is no plant.. shez been here forever..

    neways.. SB.. thats interesting.. good strategy nevertheless :).. I hate stewy even before this entire thing because of what he did to gore et. al.

    anyways, i hear lapdog edwards got creamed again on ABC by our own georgie boy! is that true? atleast georgie is being mean SOB to everyone.. LOL..

  341. Thanks, gladiatorstail. 🙂

    However, I promise to be less morose from now on. I’m sorry if I brought anyone down. I just feel like this is the one place I can vent.

  342. I didn’t name any names and honestly do not rmember the names of the posts I was refering too. A lot of the posts seem to me like people are giving up. My God, Hillary is leading in the delegate count, she has a ton of money and support throughout the country and has no intention of going anywhere. She won the debate last night, her rallys in NH have been huge with overflowing crowds. In NH indies can cross over and Reps can not unless they change their party affiliation in time (not sure what the cutoff date is or was) so that takes a few percentage points away from O as well. McCain getting big crowds so a lot of indies will go his way and O has to split the indie vote with E.

  343. BTW, what was her press conference about?

    The thing is, Hillary can be very charming and has a way of disarming people when they actually get to know her. Hey, why not try it on the media?

  344. I think there must be misunderstanding about Paula (not a plant) post – I read it and the ARG guy says that Obama votes in Iowa didn’t come from any new voter surge but from 2nd choices which in NH is not applicable. although not happy with arg polls now…though others are showing a close race and crowds are showing a close race.

  345. I am sooooo ready for a woman president….. and I think Hillary is tthe ONE. She does have a unique experience as First Lady of both President Bill Clinton and Governor Bill Clinton, as well as her time in the senate, and her life long campaign for the improvement of the lives of children and women. Anything she tackles, she has researched with a fervor, maybe unparalled. I am impressed with her knowledge of health care. She is a child of the 60’s, anxious to do what is “right” with a humanitarian focus. Her family and educational background cultivated a desire to serve. She is intelligent and driven. She has a strong desire for privacy and does not like feeling vulnerable…. The all business demeanor may not be her best asset.
    I am already tired the the Obama pulpit……. with that evanglical promise of a great heaven. He is bright articulate and will go far in his career, maybe president someday. BUT not today. He rides on a wave of success in Iowa, but I hear little of what he really is capable of doing……. experience counts a whole lot in my book. And Hillary has experience, even from her own failures, and has been an advocate of change her whole life!

  346. Kucinich thinks he still has a chance though he does not believe he has it wrapped up. He was on Fox.

  347. Some Obama credibility and/or foul-up issues worth looking into:

    1. Obama accused Hillary of making something up when it had been on record since 1996 and discussed at politico in Dec.
    2. Shown the questionnaire his staff gave a Chicago group in 1996, he claimed he never saw it and a staff person must have filled it out. (The staff said he was at a meeting with them where the questionnaire was passed around.) [So — he was too busy talking and didn’t check the questionnaire?]
    3. The answers on the questionnaire are in Obama’s familar oratorical style. If they were the staff person’s — did he have other people writing his speeches that far back?

    At Taylormarsh hot topics I posted an item about Sweet’s column with the text of the questionnaire. But there are several more source items worth posting too. Dunno if I’ll have time to work them up.

    In Saturday’s NH debate, Hillary quoted a news story about “Obama could have a debate with himself.” He accused Hillary of making it up.

    However apparently the ‘old views’ the news story was using came from a questionnaire Obama’s staff had given a Chicago organization during his campaign there. Lynn Sweet at the Sun Times “obtained the IVI-IPO questionnaire directly from the organization to assist my Obama coverage when he started running for president and without any assistance or suggestion from the Clinton forces or anyone else” and Sweet posted the whole questionnaire here:
    http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007/12/sweet_column_obamas_2003_iviip.html

    At politico, further info:
    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1207/The_Obama_questionnaire.html
    [This is the same people who helped Obama knock ALL his opponents off the ballot in Chicago.]

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1207/Chicago_activists_doubt_Obamas_answers_on_questionnaire.html
    Obama camp disavows questionnaire they gave the local group.

    And at politico, a ‘coda’:
    [The group recently met and decided not to endorse Obama 2008 — or anyone else.]
    Board member Lois Dobry, who said she cast her vote for Obama, said it was close between him and Clinton, with some support for Kucinich “which shouldn’t surprise you.”
    “There was a strong feeling that Obama was basically blowing off the questionnaires that he had presented to us, but I’m not sure that was the deciding issue,” she said.

    Here is a search screen at Politico for stories about this organization, in case they run more:
    http://dyn.politico.com/mainsearch.cfm?key=IVI%2DIPO

    Here’s another Obama staff foul-up (at best) if anyone has time to sort it out.

  348. I think Team Clinton has perhaps figured out now that they have to fight the media spin about Hillary … rather than fight the other primary opponents ..(or in addition to). They are coming up with some new ideas. Media has tried to portray Hillary as having an air of heir apparent without the work for becoming president.

    I think she is just starting to show them that she never had any intentions but to fight for this and she is starting to contrast in good ways the things she has gotten done over the past 16 years.

    This is a little late getting started but I think they know they are onto something and have figured out how to effectively get her message out.

    She needs to show this country to her is like one of her children and let that fighting mother spirit come through.

  349. Michelle Obama on C-Span

    Egual rright…kids are not free, victims of fear…kids should be able to dream.. should no have racial…

    Says she’s regular people even if she did go to Princton Harvrd, married to next president of US

    Please, God, let Hillary win.

    I don’t think I can listen to Michelle for four years! Whew

  350. I just posted at
    http://www.nyobserver.com/2008/obamas-rose-garden-debate#comments — 19 comments and a reasonable comment string so far

    By the end of the Clinton’s first terms (1992-2000) they had Social Security funded till 2055 — BECAUSE they had balanced the budget and were paying down the National Debt.

    In 2000 Bush Jr came in, spent the surplus, and in 8 years reduced the Social Security fundng by 16 years, to around 2039. (Besides trying to ‘privitize’ Soc Sec, ie get its funds into the stock market — just before the stock market crashed.)

    Hillary a wonk like Gore? Competence and knowledge of issues is a bad thing? Gore won the popular vote in 2000; do you think we’ve been better off with Bush Jr than with Gore It’s people knocking ‘wonks’ and voting for ‘likeabilityl’ that brought us Bush Jr and his war.

    The article is a reasonable review of Saturday’s NH debate:
    Obama’s Rose Garden Debate
    by Steve Kornacki | January 6, 2008
    ….
    While Hillary carried on about the details of policy and Edwards sermonized about the fundamental corruption of the system, Obama seemed less than eager to enter the fray, and when he did, he frequently sounded like a front-runner trying to run out the clock without making a mistake. His responses were peppered with pauses and “uhs,” a less than inspiring contrast to the policy command Hillary displayed.

  351. Is anyone, anywhere, vetting, “Dreams from My Father”, and tracking down the real people who OB turned into, “composites” (Who does that in their AUTOBIOGRAPHY anyway) or the many stories that been taken at face value? Who were his associates during his drug days and why have we never had any of them dredged up? Is BM waiting for the republicans to do it? It is going to happen sometime between now and November, let it be now.

    He’s (just like) as dangerous as Bush. He hasn’t been properly scrutinized or vetted by the press. His autobio has not been checked for veracity or accuracy. His records while in the State senate remain a mystery. His unusual family history will be fertile ground for the republicans;

    “Yet there are details in Obama’s life that have yet to be subjected to full scrutiny. It may not be the information itself that matters, according to Galston, but “how Obama talks about the facts as they emerge and handles questions and controversies.”

    The Chicago Sun-Times columnist Lynn Sweet was the first to spot in 2004, when Obama burst on the national stage at the Democratic party convention, that his memoir,Dreams from My Father, contained “composite” characters and changed names.

    “Except for public figures and his family, it is impossible to know who is real and who is not,” she pointed out.

    Obama admitted as much in his introduction, saying he had altered characters “for the sake of their privacy.” As with the revelation that he took cocaine in his youth, he appears to have been candid about potential areas of controversy.

    Obama’s African family is particularly complicated. By his own account, his father never really left Kezia, his first wife, in Kenya. She bore Obama Sr two children, Roy and Auma, who now works in social services in Berkshire.

    They were separated, Obama’s mother claimed, but “it was a village wedding and there was no document that could suggest a divorce”.

    His own father and mother’s wedding in Hawaii may not have been properly documented either. “How and when the marriage occurred remains a bit murky, a bill of particulars that I have never quite had the courage to explore,” Obama writes in his memoir.

    After his father left Ann and two-year-old Barack to study at Harvard, he went to Africa with another American woman, Ruth, who became his third wife. She bore him two sons in Kenya, one of whom died in a motorcycle accident, but Obama Sr continued to see Kezia.

    “Traditionally, she was still his wife,” a relative explained. Kezia went on to bear two more sons, Abo and Bernard. Although their paternity is disputed by some relatives, Obama Sr regarded them as his own. Later in life, he fathered another son, George, by a young Kenyan woman.

    After his parents split up, Obama saw his father only once before learning that he had died in a car crash in Kenya in 1982.

    Obama’s eldest brother Roy moved to America and went on to convert to Islam.
    Obama, in contrast, became a committed Christian while he was working as a community activist in Chicago. Last week he denounced the reports that he was educated in a madrasah as a “ludicrous” smear.”

    news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=ae5895fc29971b172938790be94ab107

    The republicans turned a war hero into a liar, a coward and a traitor. What would they do to a too-liberal, state senator of mixed heritage who, “lied”, about people in his own biography and seems to have only a passing acquaintance with the truth? What would they do with the line about the fact that OB only, “became a committed Christian while he was working as a community activist in Chicago.” What was he before then? An ATHEIST, like his Mom? The RNC, with FIFTY MILLION dollars to spend on trashing the democratic nominee, must be salivating at the thought.

  352. As was suggested earlier, I tried the ‘digg it’ thing and it worked! I thought you had to wear tights and dance to rock music to get in there, but it was just like any other ‘sign up to post’ thing, and my link and comment went right up.

    Apparently the deal is for other people to click the ‘digg it’ box on an article they like, to give it a higher rating at digg.

    (Now to figure out how to add that link or box in articles I post.)

  353. TheREalist, you’re right. And there is lots more info the GOP can mine from respected news sources (Chicago Tribume, The New Republic) who did long profiles of him, talking about his ‘community organizing’ in Chicago: “master agitator”, “rub raw the sores of discontent”, getting ALL his opponents thrown off the ballot….

    The Dems have been gentle not to mention this stuff. But the GOP won’t even have to drag $100 bills through inner city Chicago. There’s plenty on record in Obama’s own books and MSM.

  354. Great Hillary story

    Clinton Bats Back Primary Predictions
    By Patrick Healy

    NASHUA, N.H.—Asked by a reporter on Sunday afternoon if the New Hampshire primary was a must-win for her, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton replied, “I don’t think about it that way.”
    But at a news conference here, she also suggested that a poor performance in the Tuesday primary here would lead to more retooling of her operation.
    “If a campaign doesn’t evolve, it’s dead,” Mrs. Clinton said.
    She also seemed to challenge another reporter who asserted that Mr. Obama’s candidacy was a unique phenomenon that would be difficult for her to beat.

    “I think Senator Obama has four pollsters, if I’m not mistaken,” she said with more than a little sarcasm, indicating that she saw him as a fellow mortal politician. And asked if she felt like the media had given Mr. Obama a free ride in coverage, she joked at first that she would never complain about the media, then said it was for others to decide.
    Toward the end of the news conference, she got into a bit of a sparring match with Chris Matthews, the host of “Hardball” on MSNBC, who challenged her over her withdrawal plans on Iraq. Mr. Matthews, often a critic of the Clintons, invited her on his show, which prompted eye-rolling from Mrs. Clinton.
    “Well, right,” she said, as if the idea were fantastical. “I don’t know what to do with men who are obsessed with me.”
    And then came a Kodak moment of moments. She walked over and gave Mr. Matthews a squeeze; he hugged her right back.

    thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/clinton-bats-back-primary-predictions/#more-3708

  355. I love that MTV interview and BC. The question was why should young voters care? BC responded — I have fewer tomorrows than yesterdays…, and because they have more tomorrows than yesterdays — everything we do today affects what happens tomorrow.. (paraphrasing)

  356. Love the N.Y. Times story; Hillary hits all the right notes there. Now we know why she hugged Tweety, lol.

  357. What I can’t believe is the level of bias displayed by the media. It’s probably more palatable if you prop up candidate A but do not prop up candidate B. OR – you attack candidate A but don’t attack candidate B. You would still show bias by doing so but it would not be “FOX News – Iraq War era” level bias. But now, all the MSM outlets are not only PROPPING UP Obama’s candidacy with an almost CANINE SERVILITY but, they are attacking Hillary from all angles with CANINE FEROCITY. This goes way beyond “FOX News – Iraq War Era” level bias.

    If the MSM does not vet Obama, then it is incumbent upon those of us who can, to do so.

  358. LJ, Sherm? — Well, now I’m having trouble with Digg.com. I was able to sign up (easy) and bump up an item someoen else had already submitted, but when I try to submit one I get http://www.digg.com/submit/processing?key=b213bb9ff7e447ff3ad52cfeac528574&type=Crawl
    “We’re digging through your submission” and even on re-load it never changes (even after half an hour or so). I’ve tried closing the window and starting over, several times with different items.

    Is this a server overload situation? On mydd I’ve also registered and posted a ‘diary’ and a few comments, but more often than not get a screen dated a couple of months ago talking about changing servers. (And yes I’ve refreshed and closed the window and started over and tried to link to particular mydd diaries of other people — same result.)

  359. I’m a little leery of the Obama camp’s “We’ll never have this energy again” argument. If their supporters’ energy won’t be here to ELECT Obama in 2012, why should we suppose they’ll be there to SUPPORT him in 2012 against the GOP wing of congress, assuming he did win now?

    Other than that emotional energy (and media support), on other aspects he’d be in a much better position to run and win in 2016 (after HIllary cleans up the voting process etc) or in 2012 (if by any chance she loses in Nov 2008). He’d have more experience and the support of many of the influential people who are supporting Hillary this time.

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