Fear Of Hillary Clinton, Part II

Update: Just released New York Times/CBS News poll:

None of the Republican candidates is viewed favorably by even half of the Republican electorate, the poll found. [snip]

By contrast, Democrats are happier with their field and more settled in their decisions. For all the problems Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York appears to be having holding off her rivals Iowa and New Hampshire, she remains strong nationally, the poll found. Even after what her aides acknowledge has been two of the roughest months of her candidacy, she is viewed by Democrats as a far more electable candidate in the general election than either Senator Barack Obama of Illinois or John Edwards of North Carolina.

Not only did substantially more Democratic voters judge her to be ready for the presidency than those who believed Mr. Obama is prepared for the job, the poll found, but more Democrats said Mrs. Clinton could bring the country together than those who said Mr. Obama was someone who could unite different groups. [snip]

The poll found that former President Bill Clinton could be an effective campaign weapon for his wife. Forty-four percent of Democrats said Mr. Clinton’s involvement would make them more likely to support Mrs. Clinton.

The poll found just 1 percent said they might be swayed by the involvement of Oprah Winfrey, who has been campaigning for Mr. Obama in Iowa, South Carolina and New Hampshire the last three days, drawing huge crowds and allowing the Obama campaign to identify new supporters.

———————————

Yesterday, Ripublican George Will said “If celebrity endorsements elected presidents, we’d never have any Republican presidents.”

It’s not that celebrities don’t endorse Ripublicans, it’s just that usually the celebrities that endorse Ripublicans are, to be polite, stars that have dimmed or never shone brightly.

Today, Big Media Bible The Hotline had some observations on celebrity endorsements and polls.

Watch out, Oprah. You’ve got company.

— As candidates roll out celebrity endorsements this week, the debate on whether or not they matter continues. But sometimes an endorsement is more than just a photo-op, and actually promotes a candidate’s message as no one else could.

— Oprah-looza did just that for Obama. There’s no guarantee that the thousands who packed into her IA, NH and SC events will vote for Obama – if they vote at all. But it gave Obama’s inspiration-based message a bigger/stronger platform than any amount of paid media could buy. And given the closeness to Christmas, isn’t this the best possible environment for a message of “hope” to flourish? Still, can the Oprah-bounce last?

— A slew of new polls show HRC losing ground in early states. But just as important, neither Obama nor Edwards has made any significant gains, meaning neither one has sealed the deal. Can Edwards stay competitive enough to deny Obama the A-B-C vote?

— If HRC is to get focus off “inspiration” and onto her “experience” turf, the 12/13 DMR debate may be her last chance to do it.

No sooner said than done. Maya Angelou, the respected African-American poet and author, and close friend of Oprah recorded a radio advertisement for Hillary which dramatically reinforces the Hillary message:

Hello South Carolina, this is Maya Angelou. Let me tell you about my girl… Hillary Clinton. As a child, Hillary Clinton was taught that all God’s children are equal, so as a mother she understood that her child wasn’t safe unless all children were safe.

I know what kind of president Hillary Clinton will be because I know who she is. Hillary Clinton has always been a strong woman and a passionate protector of families. For 35 years, that’s exactly what she has been doing.

Each generation of African Americans stands on the shoulders of those who came before. Today, the challenges facing us threaten the dreams we have had for our children. We need a president with the experience and strength to meet those challenges. I am inspired by Hillary Clinton’s commitment and courage … a daughter, a wife, a mother… my girl.

Oprah like Obama is at bottom, a creature of glitz. Maya Angelou is a woman of substance and strength. Glitz tarnishes. We doubt, that Oprah has the power Obama attributes to her: “If Oprah said, ‘Kill all the husbands, the blood would be running in the streets.’ Now that’s power!” [Note: some confusion in the comments; this “Kill all the husbands” quote is an actual Obama quote from this weekend.]

While celebrity endorsements are fun and great to have, it is the candidate that has to convince the voters to support them with a vote. The Hotline is probably right that the next Democratic debate, this Thursday, will be a closely watched and important debate.

As to The Hotline’s poll theories, we will have a further discussion in subsequent parts of “Fear Of Hillary”. For now though, it is true that neither Obama nor Edwards has made any significant gains in the polls.

Yesterday Mark Penn tried educating the public as to the current state of the political race in order to counteract the entertainment factor which Big Media is ladling.

What’s happening in the Democratic primary for president?

A lot less than the headlines would suggest.

Iowa continues to be a competitive race while Hillary is maintaining meaningful leads in all the other states and in the national polls that are representative of her Feb 5th strength.

But with the plethora of polls it is becoming increasingly difficult to follow what is a trend, what is a poll without a trend, what is a screened phone poll and what is a computer driven poll. The natural tendency is for those polls that show it closer to get more attention. They are “news.”

Penn provides the most recent polling data as an example of how Big Media is failing to educate the public. Instead of educating the public Big Media is entertaining the public.

There’s yet a new case-in-point of poll confusion today with the release of a slew of Mason-Dixon polls – but a look at their past polls paints a very different story than at first glance. For example, they have Hillary ahead by 3 points today in SC and pundits suggest that this shows how the race has closed. But while other polls showed a strong lead in June, the Mason-Dixon poll had Hillary losing by 9 points in June, so this actually shows Hillary’s margin up by 12 points from their last poll and surging. When you look at the facts by tracking results over time from the same poll, she is up, not down. Other polls give her a much wider lead than Mason-Dixon: the latest Pew poll has Hillary ahead by 14 points in South Carolina and the latest ARG poll has her 24 points ahead.

Because predicting primaries is extremely difficult and everyone has their own methodologies, you have to look at polls from the same pollsters to see if there have been changes.

Similarly, the Mason Dixon poll in NH shows a close race with a 3 point lead for Hillary – but their last poll in June gave her a 5 point lead – and a WMUR/CNN poll around the same time had Hillary leading in New Hampshire by 15 points. So Mason-Dixon was low in June and they actually show no statistically significant change in her margin now.

2nd case in point: Last week three polls of New Hampshire Democratic primary voters were released. One showed Hillary with a 14 point lead (Marist), one showed Hillary with an 11 point lead (Zogby) and one gave Hillary a 6 point lead (ABC/Washington Post). Which poll got the most attention? The one that showed the closest race – ABC/Washington Post. And poll junkies should also note that New Hampshire polling is particularly difficult because it is often unclear to the last minute which independent voters are coming to which primary – and Hillary has a strong and energized lead with Democrats.

Friday’s AP/Ipsos national poll shows Hillary with a 22 point lead – about the same as it was one month ago. And this week’s LA Times/Bloomberg and Pew polls also show Hillary with a 23-24 point lead – about two to one over her closest competitor.

In Iowa, polls all show it close, with no clear leader. Friday’s Newsweek poll shows Hillary ahead by one point among all Iowa Democrats. Among likely caucus-goers, Hillary is in second place, six points behind the leader, just two points lower than in September.

Four other polls this past week show Hillary ahead in Iowa: by 3 points in the Zogby poll, 5 points in the Pew poll, 7 points in the Iowa State University poll and 3 points in the Edwards campaign’s internal poll. And a poll in last weekend’s Des Moines Register put Hillary Clinton in second place – three points behind the leader.

In Nevada, the latest poll done by ARG through December 6th has Hillary ahead there by 27 points and the latest Research 2000 poll has Hillary ahead by 25 points. Again, Mason-Dixon had it closer before and even closer now – but that’s not what the others show.

Mark Penn restates what we have noted: “Iowa is a state where Hillary started behind and has been improving steadily. But the polls in the other states show meaningful leads as we head into the home stretch, and Hillary maintains a national base in Feb 5th states that is strong and unmatched.”

The polling picture will continue to fluctuate. As more communications are directed towards voters by all the campaigns, views will shift. In Iowa, the holidays, the weather, the collapse of candidates with less than 15% support in individual precincts on caucus night, football games and babysitting problems will all affect the outcome of the vote.

While we may not know which variables will have a dispositive effect on the elections we do know how Big Media wants to trash our elections.

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123 thoughts on “Fear Of Hillary Clinton, Part II

  1. Admin, do we already know who this endorsement is tomorrow in Philadelphia? It says in one of the articles that there will be a “special endorsement” tomorrow in Philadelphia.

  2. great post admin. like you stated in your post mark penn touched on the cherry picking of the polls by the msm. big media is always picking the close polls while ignoring the more favorable polls of hillary. we are not going to let them get away with it.

  3. wtf, im watching cbs news and hillary is leading 44% to the punk’s 27% and she is slipping according to couric? the new national ny times/cbs poll.

  4. Hi everyone,
    I am looking forward to the next debate. I think she is talking time off and preparing for that debate. This is her last chance to reinforce her message that experience counts! [despite what crazy oprah says]
    Now, that Hillary can go at her opponents if they come at her – I hope she gives a strong performance.

  5. Admin, why doesn’t the media ever explore the monumental change Hillary embodies by virtue of perhaps becoming the first female president? I am so sick of the media completely ignoring how huge that will be. My sister, who doesn’t follow politics, thinks it’s because it gives Hillary too big an advantage. That if women really thought about how we represent a majority of the electorate but have never had one of our own, particularly a mother, at the helm, that that would be nearly irresistable, especially given that Hillary is a progressive Democrat with all the requiste skills to be president. What do you think? I ask because I found the Gibson interview so inspiring because he actually allowed Hillary to talk about it.

  6. i know is is great mj, but her opening was very misleading. she clamed BOTH the gop and dem race were tight. she also hinted hillary is in trouble. what a lie. guliani is trouble.

  7. We posted an update with the NYTimes/CBS poll.

    Update: Just released New York Times/CBS News poll:

    None of the Republican candidates is viewed favorably by even half of the Republican electorate, the poll found. [snip]

    By contrast, Democrats are happier with their field and more settled in their decisions. For all the problems Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York appears to be having holding off her rivals Iowa and New Hampshire, she remains strong nationally, the poll found. Even after what her aides acknowledge has been two of the roughest months of her candidacy, she is viewed by Democrats as a far more electable candidate in the general election than either Senator Barack Obama of Illinois or John Edwards of North Carolina.

    Not only did substantially more Democratic voters judge her to be ready for the presidency than those who believed Mr. Obama is prepared for the job, the poll found, but more Democrats said Mrs. Clinton could bring the country together than those who said Mr. Obama was someone who could unite different groups. [snip]

    The poll found that former President Bill Clinton could be an effective campaign weapon for his wife. Forty-four percent of Democrats said Mr. Clinton’s involvement would make them more likely to support Mrs. Clinton.

    The poll found just 1 percent said they might be swayed by the involvement of Oprah Winfrey, who has been campaigning for Mr. Obama in Iowa, South Carolina and New Hampshire the last three days, drawing huge crowds and allowing the Obama campaign to identify new supporters.

  8. mj, Big Media is not bothering to educate. Imagine if Hillary or anyone in her campaign said what Obama did about the blood of husbands flowing in the streets, if Oprah so commanded it.

  9. No, he actually said that. We always post links to our quotes and the link is there. We couldn’t possibly make this stuff up.

  10. Good God. Obomination is such a loose cannon. Iowa, please spare us this. Do you really think America is going to make this man president?

  11. I don’t even want him to be president. I want Hillary, damn it. And, I am sick of the media trying to spon feed us that guy.

  12. hillfans i just emailed admin a new survey usa south carolona poll. hillary at 47% to punk’s 33%. im bad a links so i hope admin will post or check out survey usa website for yourselves. i got it off tpm cafe poll tracker. great news!!!! let the big media eat that.

  13. To buttress our point on the looney poll situation right now, Terrondt provides a Survey USA South Carolina poll:

    As noted by Terrondt, Hillary 47%, Obama 33%, Edwards 10%
    http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=16534545-fed1-44c2-a2b2-900fe56895df

    Earlier in the day Republican pollster InsiderAdvantage published a totally different results South Carolina poll:

    Hillary 22%, Obama 28%, Edwards 14%
    http://www.southernpoliticalreport.com/storylink_1210_74.aspx

  14. The SurveyUSA SC poll summary (if the dates are correct, the poll is rather old, in the field in mid-November?):
    http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=16534545-fed1-44c2-a2b2-900fe56895df

    In a Democratic Primary for President of the United States held in South Carolina today, 11/13/07, two months to the vote, Hillary Clinton leads with 47%, 14 points atop Barack Obama, at 33%. Clinton leads by 33 points among women. Obama leads by 19 point among men. A 52-point Gender Gap. Among white South Carolina Democratic Primary voters, Obama runs 3rd, behind John Edwards, who gets 17% of white votes and 10% overall. Obama gets 15% of white votes, 40 points behind Clinton, who gets 55% of white votes. Obama leads 5:4 among black voters, but that is not enough of a lead to catapult Obama past Clinton — not today, anyway. In SurveyUSA’s turnout model, 49% of likely Democratic voters are black, 48% are white. Clinton leads by 22 points Upstate, by 15 points in the Midlands, and by 5 points in the Low Country. Obama leads among voters under age 50. Democrats say Iraq is the most important issue for the next President to focus on, followed by the Economy, followed by Health Care. On all 3 issues, Clinton leads by at least 16 points.

    2,200 South Carolina adults were interviewed 11/09/07 through 11/11/07. Of them 1,895 were registered to vote. Of the 1,895, a total of 1,483 were identified by SurveyUSA as likely to vote in the South Carolina Presidential Primary. Of them, 201 were disqualified by SurveyUSA because they could not commit to voting “no matter what date the primary is held,” and of the remaining 1,282 likely voters, 257 were disqualified by SurveyUSA because they said they had not decided yet which Primary they were going to vote in. The net yield is 577 likely Republican Primary voters and 447 likely Democratic Primary voters. All of these are voters who say they are certain to vote no matter what day the primary is held, and are certain today which one of the two primaries they will vote in. Caveat: Measuring African American turnout in South Carolina is a challenge in any election, but uniquely so in a Primary where an African American is a candidate for President. It is unknowable at this hour how many infrequent black voters, if any, Obama may turnout in a Primary, and, separately, how many infrequent young voters an Obama candidacy may attract in a Primary. These survey results should be evaluated with these caveats in mind.

  15. but guess what ? that Insider Advantage ( a repub outfit) SC poll that shows obama ahead by some 6 points is the one being highlighted everywhere (including tpm)..

  16. TPM appears to have withdrawn the SurveyUSA poll. As we noted, the poll appears old since it was in the field in mid-November.

  17. This is the story gladiatorstail posted in the previous post (might an Obama vs. Edwards fight be in the offing?):

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2007/12/dropping-oppo.html

    December 10, 2007 6:00 PM

    Circulating among Iowa labor circles, I am told, is this leaflet, which looks to be a standard opposition-research paper against former Sen. John Edwards, D-NC.

    The shocker? It’s from Mr. Positive, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois.

    Not that it’s a shocker that Obama is drawing differences between he and his opponents.

    It’s a shocker because Obama chief strategist David Axelrod told ABC News that “One of the things people appreciate about (Obama) is he’s not a cheap-shot artist” and this flier is full of cheap shots.

    The cheapest shot … that Edwards somehow has something to do with Whirlpool when the company was closing down Maytag plants in Iowa, Illinois, and Arkansas.

    Why is that a cheap shot? Because the link is that Edwards worked for the controversial Fortress Hedge Fund while it owned stock in Whirlpool as it was shutting down those plants.

    But a far more direct link exists between Obama and those plants shutting down.

    The Crown family — Lester, Renee, James, Paula — have been supporters, fundraisers, and bundlers for Obama.

    Lester Crown was on the board of Maytag when it decided to shut down a plant in Galesburg, Illinois, and sent those jobs to Mexico.

    In August 2005, Crain’s Chicago Business reported that the Crowns stood “to reap an estimated $86 million from the sale of appliance maker Maytag Corp. to rival Whirlpool Corp. After a bidding war, Newton, Iowa-based Maytag agreed Monday to sell to Whirlpool for $21 a share in cash and stock. Maytag has said the Crowns hold about 4.1 million shares.”

    Shortly after that merger was announced, Whirlpool shut down those plants in Iowa, Illinois, and Arkansas.

    Do I think Obama is responsible for the plants shutting down? Nope.

    But he should know better than to attack Edwards on the same subject.

    People in glass houses in Newton, Iowa, shouldn’t throw Maytag dishwashers.

    Or something like that.

  18. admin:

    Here is the leaflet that was circulated by Obama on Edwards. I have to tell you, I don’t feel sorry for Edwards at all. He used Edwards like a bitch to attack Hillary, and he is now throwing him under the bus. Obama has an opposition research on everyone who criticizes him – Hillary, Bill, Krugman, some blogger who attacked him on McClurkin, and now Edwards..

    http://www.abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Obama%20Oppo%20on%20JRE%20-%20On%20Labor%20in%20Iowa.pdf

  19. Re: Carol Shea-Potter. No surprise, a freshman. I think she also ran on a strong anti-war platform. Barbara Lee — unfortunate, but again, she’s very anti-war.

    SC is gone IMO, unless Obama is really lagging when that primary takes place. There was a write-up in The State about how the black vote shifted to Obama when the Oprah news was made public and shifted a few more points this weekend. On the flip side, the white vote didn’t budge.

    Black turnout is expected to be higher this time than the last primary, estimated at 55%. Second, I don’t expect Hillary to absolutely dominate the white vote — you’ll have a chunk of Dems that simply won’t vote for a woman. There’ll still be other names on the ballot. My point is to adjust to the realities of SC now so one isn’t disappointed in the future. Nothing is set in stone of course, but Obama’s position right now in the state is good.

    Right now the name of the game is IA & NH. We’ve been in this situation before with Obama in a very close 2nd during the first media surge. A debate or two kicked him back. So I’m not going to worry about anything until after the next debate.

  20. ra1029: Obama has an opposition research on everyone who criticizes him – Hillary, Bill, Krugman, some blogger who attacked him on McClurkin, and now Edwards..

    I saw that piece at OpenLeft as well. I think the blogger in question is John Avarosis or Jerome Armstrong (probably the former).

    Democrats are in denial as to what Obama is all about.

  21. the thing is realclear politics.com has the gop sc poll on there also. it is also old. why are they putting month old polls as new?

  22. GOP dates in field: 2,200 South Carolina adults were interviewed by SurveyUSA 12/07/07 through 12/09/07

  23. AmericanGal, it looks like the debate on the 17th is cancelled. Thursday looks to be bigger than ever. Maybe Edwards will go after Obama because of the leaflet.

  24. I don’t believe that admin. I think is not going after Obama because he has some weird strategy in his mind. Even if Obama calls him his “bull dog”, Edwards will not attack him. I don’t know what his strategy is, but he has something in his mind.

  25. It’s NOT old. The release date is today, 12/10 and the previous month’s results can be found on RCP’s list of all SC polls.
    There will be a new SC poll from them, but that one isn’t it. No biggie, probably out tomorrow.

  26. ra1029: I don’t believe that admin.

    Edwards has himself in a box. That he felt the need to release an inside poll tells you that he’s still campaigning to be the ‘anti-Hillary,’ hence the reasons he attacks her. Obama, however, has usurped the role, largely due to a sugar high the media isn’t going to come down from anytime soon.

    The direction he goes in probably depends on whether he thinks he fares better against Obama or Hillary past IA. Up to now, the conventional wisdom has been Obama.

  27. The direction he goes in probably depends on whether he thinks he fares better against Obama or Hillary past IA.

    It is too late for him to change strategy. I think he will stick to what he has been doing.

  28. So this is the media’s game? Everyone can be up by 1 and win by 1, but Hillary has to be up by 50 or win by 100 or else she’s slipping and it’s still a horse race.

  29. I’m glad there is only this last debate. No one has won a debate other than Hillary, though she lost the one with the dl question because of the after spin, no one else actually won it. So, if she can do well here, then that’s it. She’s defacto won all the debates.

  30. Hillary Clinton does not have to lose South Carolina. What she needs to do is to play the gender card the same way that Oprah insinuated that Hillary Clinton and her supporters want Obama to wait his turn. Subtle. Effective.

    According to Bill Cosby (and several other authors) there are serious issues in the African American community as far as men “not stepping up to the plate,” shall we say. According to this theory (?), African American women have really had to learn to stand together . . . as women.

    Hillary’s response with Maya Angelou is perfect. But, this message is going to have to be reinforced constantly to the women – vote as women. She was probably going to lose AA men anyhow and whites will overwhelmingly support her.

  31. Education wanted

    In the Iowa Caucus, would it be better for Hillary’s supporters to support no one if their particular caucus group receives less than 15% of the vote?

  32. So this is the media’s game? Everyone can be up by 1 and win by 1, but Hillary has to be up by 50 or win by 100 or else she’s slipping and it’s still a horse race.

    Yup. Didn’t you hear Timme say that Hillary better win Iowa else she lost this nomination?

  33. Look, the media is doing everything they can to bring Hill down. There is nothing we can do about that. Hillary was never expected to win Iowa. Edwards has lived there for 4 years, and Obama is in the neighboring state. Consider, Hill’s leads in NJ and PA. They are huge. Perhaps Hill is doing better than we think because the media seems to feel they need to keep trying to drag her down.

  34. This is silly. Things may get even tighter. That’s what the media is aiming at. We can not buy into this and obsess on it. Hillary is by far the best candidate in this race. I seriously suggest reading fewer blogs and watching less tv until this is over.

  35. The most common-sense thing I’ve seen in the media the past few days is that statement by Iowa’s David Yepsen that Dem voters better look at Obama’s weaknesses because they’re less well-known than Hillary’s and will be exploited by the GOP.

    Gee, no kidding!

  36. Taylor Marsh was blogging about the Bill Moyers show that featured a guest who was talking about mainstream media misogyny. The transcript that she posted was just illuminating, to say the least. I went on youtube to look for that episode and was lucky to find it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApDM6UaH1KA

    They talked about the McCain “bitch” incident.

  37. I know the Thursday debate is very important, but I also remember Hillary getting zero benefit from her excellent debate performance in mid-November. Hopefully, this time it will be different.

  38. If Democratic primary voters examine Obama’s shortcomings as Yepsen suggests then they will see that he is a weak leader who is incapable of solving the nation’s problems. Big Media knows that and once dubbed him Obambi.

    Wealthy voters may vote for him inspite of that fact. But middle class and poor Americans who have no cushion to fall back on will opt for strong competent leadership and vote for Hillary.

  39. I am not as negative about this. Things fluctuate at the end of a primary. Voers do some last minute dating. I think Hillary may win Iowa actually.

  40. For Christmas this year, I don’t want anything for myself. Whatever good karma I was able to earn, I want it to go to Hillary. For Christmas, I want Hillary to get the Dem nomination and win the election.

    I don’t think I’ve ever wanted anyone to win more than I do Hillary. I know I’m amongst a bunch of Hillarites here, but I will say that I am the biggest Hillarite that I know.

    You know what that means though, right? If Hillary doesn’t get the nom, I’m going to be the most depressed person for the next few months.

  41. i just read a comment by a person called ‘logic 101’
    if it is one of you, forgive me, but i thought it was so beautiful, i had to post it here:

    “I was thinking about “vote the dream” and doing a slow burn.
    for some women, it takes awhile to realize when we’ve been diverted
    again.”

    “African americans would no doubt, want one of their own to make it.
    but there area a great many more women than blacks who have waited their turn.”

    “If women have to defer their dream for another man (because he’s AA),
    do we have to wait till a chinese–american wins, than a jewish man, than a latino all get their dreams?”

    “Mormons dream about Romney, greeks are still waiting for their man. Are we to be the back of the line forever?”

    “I am incensed that the “dream” is not considered alive with Hillary and that Oprah has dissed the majority of her fans by telling them that their hopes for fairness and equality will have to stand aside because there’s a black man who has a chance. he can”t wait–not even till he’s qualified–but women will once again have to defer to a man. Grrrrrrrrrr”

    well i thought this says so much, its so poignant… thank you Logic 101

    Admin., if women saw this comment it would certainly make them see this whole thing clearly, could we post somewhere?

  42. I look on this debate as an important opportunity to expose Obama’s weaknesses, which have been hidden from public view by Big Media.

    If I were in Obama’s shoes, I would be worried about a laser shot from Hillary, a retaliatory swipe by Edwards, a searching question by the moderator, and/or the audience.

    This assumes that the debate will be a conducted with a fair sense of due process. In other words, MSNBC need not apply.

  43. As far as the last good debate for Hillary not benefiting her.. well.. she got the message out there that Sen. Obama’s health care plan doesn’t cover everyone. that’s a pretty big deal. and she basically decked Edwards, has anyone heard from him in a month? especially all those negative attacks that he made throughout October? he’d have kept doing that otherwise. now JRE is starting to go after Obama, I think. Interesting.

  44. Just back from the Bill event! OMG. I met the president and we talked about my student org. He took pictures with me 3 times, and signed my copy of Giving. We had over 1,000 attendees and a lot of fun. Look for my photos on the hillary website and I am the boy with a goatee, a scarf on, and a dark bue dress shirt.

  45. Totally true, another_reader. The health care message has stuck. It was mostly Hill’s suprising partner in crime, Kucinich, however, who mostly took down Edwards at that debate. That’s ok. It worked. 🙂

  46. Bill’s speech was about how Hillary is a true agent of change and talked about how he met her and how amazingly dedicated she was and is.

  47. Yeah. Quite a few. There was 1 protester dressed like a robot that stood up on the press stage and yelled something about how Bill owes robots an apology or something rediculous, and then threw a bunch of confetti paper everywhere. Bill was like “find a more environmentally friendly way to protest”. It was odd and Bill was awesome.

  48. The other thing that came out of that last debate was that wonderful segment where Obama tried to explain his position on drivers licenses and sounded like Porky Pig trying to explain the finer points of astrophysics.

    Also she had an opportunity to clarify her position from the prior debate on that issue.

  49. I bet that robot protestor was an Obama plant. It ties in with the theme of the 1984 video. Bill Clinton’s response was perfect. Never a dull moment . . . .

  50. Yes. We had many many signed. And this obama person, in my view, asked what Bill’s position is on people from illinois caucusing here and about bussing. These were people that snuck under the ropeline into reserved seats in the beginning of the event.

  51. About 4 of them. They listened and sat quietly and then one girl asked that question, I knew right away, Obama plant.

  52. Democratic debate in Boston canceled

    BOSTON (AP) — A Democratic presidential debate scheduled for next week in Boston has been scrapped because of the earlier-than-usual Iowa caucuses, a spokeswoman for CNN, one of the event’s organizers, said Monday.

    The Dec. 17 debate also was sponsored by the foundation that runs the John F. Kennedy Library and Museum and Politico.com, an online political magazine.

    “Due to the early scheduling of the Iowa caucuses, organizers decided to cancel the December 17th debate in Boston,” CNN’s Edie Emery said in a brief statement, declining to discuss factors that influenced the decision.

    “There are plenty other debates that we will be having in January, along with other networks,” she said.

    Iowa’s precinct caucuses, which open the presidential nominating season, are Jan. 3.

    © 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved

  53. For your reading enjoyment, Tod Gitlen deconstructs the irrational attacks by Modo and Russert against Hillary.

    I don’t know the temperature of Maureen Dowd’s eyes, or what she wants, but this morning she did break the pundit record for number of distinct irrelevancies in a single sentence.

    A few questions: Is it is preferable to be hot-eyed about wanting power (see: Rudy)? Is it possible to do any good in the actual world without power? If you want power, what’s the alternative to raising money? “Turning everything about her life into a commodity”–come on! I’m not enamored of the junior senator from New York’s prose style, but hasn’t the junior senator from Illinois published two best-sellers, and hasn’t John Edwards let the world in on his wife’s illness?

    Dowd barged onto my breakfast table with the arresting report that Caitlin Flanagan in The Atlantic was “particularly bothered by Hillary’s callousness in dumping Socks, the beloved White House cat and best-selling author, on Bill’s former secretary Betty Currie.”

    On which momentous matter, Sidney Blumenthal writes me as follows: “Socks was Chelsea’s cat. Bill got Buddy the dog. Buddy and Socks didn’t get along. Chelsea went to college. Betty liked Socks and took him home. So, this is about Hillary’s character?”

    Plenty of material there for Tim Russert the next time he has an urgent question for Hillary. And while I’m at it, a bonus question for Mr. Bluster: Will you pledge that you’ve asked your last sneering, bullying, pontifical question of a Clinton?

  54. i ve been waiting up to celiff bill is really smart witted mj,funny find another way for the enviorment,those plants are weirdo’s.

  55. Read the Manchester Union Leader write up, such as it is (no explanations on Carol Shea Porter’s rationale for endorsing BHO). Left a comment both there and at BlueHampshire regarding the fact that both CSP and Paul Hodes had received Hopefund cash in 2006 when they were running for Congress as well as $9,000 each in 2007.

    There was also a comment at BlueHampshire about her clapping so enthusiastically at the OO rally Sunday night. Guess she got suckered in by all that magic. Wonder if she’ll have day after the night before remorse? She just lost my vote and I plan to email to tell her so later today …. after my blood pressure goes down.

    BTW, I met her Sunday afternoon for the first time. Looking back, this doesn’t surprise me so much. She had stopped by Hillary’s office, as it had reopened. Her conversation was all about her and tossing around Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank’s names, etc. Nothing about local politics. Looking back on her visit, I would label it phoney. Seems BHO attracts it.

    Oh, well, she’s going to find herself having made the wrong decision. Enuf said on this.

  56. B Merry: Oh, well, she’s going to find herself having made the wrong decision. Enuf said on this.

    Kudos, we need more of this kind of an attitude.

  57. b-merry

    i felt the same disgust after hearing of paul hodes endorsement of BO a few months ago. i live in the second congressional district and voted for him in the 2004 election. it won’t happen again.

  58. alcina, I’m of the mind to send an open letter to CSP at Foster’s. What do you think about that? Also will put up a Hot Topics at Taylor Marsh. This sort of inexplicable flip flop (with $$ in the mix) deserves scrutiny.

  59. b-merry

    did CSP flip-flop? i know PH was with BO from the start. it’s obvious they were both purchased $$$ from the get-go. they make me sick.

  60. good morning hillfans, if i don’t get nothing for the next 8 christmases it will be all worth if hillary is president for all those years.

  61. Here’s my post on CSP up at taylormarsh.com/hot_topics.php#849

    HLR, IMHO, CSP (gotta love all those letters) is full of her own power. Instead of waiting, she put all her eggs in that one basket. Not only has she lost my respect, but she has lost the support of my whole family. I will make sure to let everyone I know what I think of her, as well. She has shown exactly how much her judgment can be trusted.

  62. alcina, my reference to a flip flop is this. She made herself very clear in Hillary’s office here that she would not be endorsing anyone for the primary. Sunday she was in there all smiles but full of herself. I call that hypocritical. The worst liars are the ones who will smile in your face while they’re planning to knife you in the back. Why show up there at all?

  63. B Merry — word to the wise. The LA Times has a piece on Hillary and earmarks implying that her donors made out like bandits. I haven’t read it, but it’s a cinch that you’ll get that thrown back in your face in response to any comments about HopeFund.

  64. HLR, the difference between HillPAC and Hopefund is that Hillary shut HillPAC down before she declared her run for office. BHO faked it and let Hopefund go dormant from February to June 15th, when it cranked back up and started handing out $2,500 and $5,000 checks, then went dormant again until the end of September, when it started cranking out the checks again.

    Regardless of whom HillPAC gave funds to prior to her candidacy, HillPAC gave ZERO dollars to anyone afterwards. There is a distinct difference. BHO wants to say it’s the same, but it is absolutely not the same anyway you want to try to sell it.

  65. On BlueHampshire added after my last comment:

    Front runner

    An endorsement this late, by a playa, smacks of a Front runner mentality, waiting to see who has the best chance of;

    a. winning
    b. helping them

    As I commented on TM, Quid pro quo, Carol?

  66. HLR, no she didn’t say this past Sunday that she was not endorsing, but has made a point of letting Hillary’s office know that she would not be endorsing anyone, at least prior to the primary. What a difference an Oprama makes.

  67. Here’s something I didn’t know. Bob Vila is campaigning for Hillary. Who knew? Not I.

    hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/ [space] 2007/12/can_i_caulk_you.html#more

  68. It occurred to me this morning that Obama’s camp has decided to fight a war of attrition. They know they don’t have the capacity to win the big picture. Hillary is more popular among Democrats than Obama is. He is counting on a greatly divided field to win one skirmish after another and arrive at the prize with a greatly divided party that essentially never wanted him to be the nominee.

  69. sorry !!!

    that all important question:

    IF YOU WERE STUCK ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD, WHO WOULD YOU WANT TO STOP AND PICK YOU UP? HILLARY OR BARRACK OBAMA?

  70. i didnt wait for the answer, because ofcourse i was just driving by…

    as i passed fox they had the ticker on the bottom saying someone is predicting hillary clinton to come in third in iowa…

    than on my way out at cnn, they were saying how hillarys campaign produces some old voting survey, and ofcourse explaining how barack says its not true, he didnt even fill it out…

    i’m going to have to stop watching t.v till after the election, or else stop channel surfing…

  71. Poor Oprah thinks she is doing a great job, but I think her emotional talk and the applaud she got in return melts soonest she leaves the stage. It can’t help or harm.

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