Hillary Clinton Daughter And Mom

Mother and Daughter

Mother, Daughter, Mother’s Mother, and Daughter’s Father were on the campaign trail yesterday.

Hillary Rodham Clinton was joined by her mother and daughter Saturday as she vowed “change across the generations” and stepped up her pitch to the women voters who could hold the key to Iowa’s caucuses.

“We’re getting close to the caucuses,” said Clinton. “I always think it’s better to go to the caucuses with a buddy. Today, I’ve got some buddies with me.

Those “buddies” included 88-year-old mother Dorothy Rodham and 27-year-old daughter Chelsea Clinton, making her first appearance with her mother on the trail in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Opening the swing, Clinton noted that her family is able to care for her mother as she ages.

“I’m fortunate, my mother lives with Bill and me,” said Clinton. “Lots of times she has more energy than we do.”

Clinton noted that her mother fits the description of women who were born before women got the right to vote, and are now pushing to elect the first woman president.

“She has seen a lot happen and change in our country,” said Clinton. “Not everyone is as lucky to have their mother or father or grandparent with them as we are.”

Hillary spoke about her “plan to bolster long-term care, including a $3,000 tax credit for caregivers, a doubling of the standard deduction for the elderly and a tax credit for purchasing long-term care insurance”.

I’m a proud working daughter,” said Clinton. “My family is able to make the decisions we think are right for us and that’s what I want for every American family.”

One of the amusing moments from yesterday was when Hillary, at an elementary school, read from a list of suggestions prepared by children regarding the next president’s agenda. One of the items the children suggest the next president can help with is “teach us left from right.” After this past week’s attacks on Paul Krugman, Universal health care and earlier on Social Security it is clear Obama missed those elementary school lessons.

While Hillary campaigned with her mom and daughter, Bill Clinton was working to elect Hillary too:

While Obama was seeking the spotlight Saturday by bringing in talk show maven Oprah Winfrey, Clinton was fast making her campaign a family business. While her mother and daughter joined her in Iowa, her former president husband campaigned for her in another early voting state, South Carolina, and was headed back to the Iowa on Monday for a swing focused on college campuses.

At a town hall meeting in Iowa Hillary took questions from the hundreds of Iowans crammed into a fire station. Instead of dividing the country by generation Hillary said “The reason I am happy they are both here is I’m running for president to make the kind of change that America needs, changes people need no matter what age they are.” “We need change across the generations.”


Bill Clinton In South Carolina


While Hillary campaigned with her daughter and her mother, Bill Clinton was at work in South Carolina. (We love Bill’s pink tie and all the pink on everyone else too.

Mr. Clinton appeared at the regular meeting of the Charleston chapter of the Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, the country’s oldest Greek-letter organization for African-American college women. About 120 women, most of whom learned only last night or this morning that the former president was coming, sat in a small, low-ceilinged room here and listened intently as he gave a short, low-key speech about the nuts and bolts of Mrs. Clinton’s health-care plan.

He said her plan would insure the 672,000 people in South Carolina who have no health coverage, including 99,000 children, and would save families thousands of dollars a year. She has cared about health care for at least the nearly four decades he has known her, he said, and improving health care is “at the heart of” what she wants to do for the country.

He did not compare her health plan to those of her rivals, nor did he mention those rivals except to say that he was excited about the campaign because it featured not only a woman but “a really good African-American” and an Hispanic-American governor. He went on to note that women have been elected to head India, Pakistan, Germany, Argentina and Chile, and “America shouldn’t be behind anybody.”

Bill Clinton was polite. Bill Clinton did not mention Barack Obama’s gay bashing tour of South Carolina. Bill Clinton did not mention Rezko nor freezing Chicago tenants. Bill Clinton did not mention Obama’s latest attack on Democratic progressive values. Bill Clinton did not mention Obama’s attack against Paul Krugman. Bill Clinton did not mention Obama’s blunders and inexperience. Bill Clinton did not mention that Obama Is Never There When You Need Him. Bill Clinton did not mention Obama’s AWOL history nor his “present” votes. Bill Clinton did not mention Obama mouthing Ripublican talking points on Social Security. Bill Clinton did not mention Obama abandoning 15 million Americans to the land of the uninsured with the Obama NOT universal health care plan (and lying about his plan then attacking those who honestly point out that the Obama plan is NOT universal health care).

It was left to Representative John Lewis of Georgia, the civil rights veteran, who accompanied Mr. Clinton, to fire up the audience with rabble-rousing lines.

In a booming voice, Mr. Lewis declared that he had known every president since John F. Kennedy and that Mr. Clinton was “the smartest and the best.” After a slight pause, he added, “But his wife is smarter.” The audience erupted with a big applause. Mr. Clinton laughed.

John Lewis, the wise “chicken preacher” who faced beatings while helping America cross the bridge to civil rights justice knows an Obama-come-lately from someone who is tried – and true:

Mr. Lewis quickly sketched out his civil rights bona fides, including having been jailed 40 times. He then said of Mrs. Clinton: “She is not a Johnny-come-lately to the cause of health care. She believes that health care is a right and it should not be judged on the size of your pocketbook or the size of your bank account or the zip code you live in.”

Many in the audience responded as if in church, with “amen” and “yes.”

“We need her now more than ever before,” Mr. Lewis said.

After speaking to Alpha Kappa Alpha, Bill took it to the streets.

Mr. Clinton just finished up a crowd-crushing visit to an open-air market in downtown Charleston. He shook so many hands, and stopped to have his picture taken so often, that it took him almost an hour and a half to move just one block.

“Eat your heart out, Oprah,” a supporter said into his cell phone as the former president alit from his motorcade and several well-wishers swarmed around him.


302 thoughts on “Hillary Clinton Daughter And Mom

  1. MSNBC wants a horse race. So they conduct a poll to produce the results they want so that they can tout a deadheat ans “Hillary is going down” mantra for the next two weeks. MSNBC has much less credibility than Fox news when it comes to all things Clintons. This poll is a complete outlier when you compare it with other polls.

  2. It’s McClatchy-MSNBC polls conducted by Mason Dixon. They report:


    Clinton 27
    Obama 25
    Edwards 21

    New Hampshire:

    Clinton 30
    Obama 27
    Edwards 10

    South Carolina

    Clinton 28
    Obama 25
    Edwards 18


  3. The joke is this question in NH dems poll.

    Which candidate has run the most negative campaign?

    Hillary 13%
    Edwards 8%
    Obama 4%

    And guess who leads in this poll on issue of healthcare and environment?


    Hillary 29%
    Obama 31%


    Hillary: 21%
    Obama: 32%

    Looks like this poll was conducted by Chris Matthews and Tim Russert directly on the field..

  4. A few comments, starting with New Hampshire. The last time MD did a poll for MSNBC was back in June. Interestingly enough, they showed a close race between Hillary and Obama while nobody else did during that time frame:

    CNN/UNH H 36 O 22 June 6-10
    Mason Dixon (MSNBC) H 26 O 21 June 4-7
    Franklin Pierce H 38 O 16 June 4

    In SC, they also showed the largest Obama lead at the time:

    MD (MSNBC) H 25 O 34 June 13-15

    and actually, the largest Obama lead reported in the state ever.


    December 9, 2007 — No one recognized the young woman in jeans sitting on the floor at La Guardia Airport’s Gate C2 eating snack food and reading the paper.

    And clearly she wanted it like that.

    Chelsea Clinton, the kid who grew up in the White House and whose mom was then the first lady and is now looking to take over dad’s old job running the family candy store, was like the rest of the disgusted (and late) travelers trying to get outta NYC. Late, tired, hungry.

    The American Airlines flight from La Guardia to Des Moines was running about three hours late.

    Unlike some of the rest of us who were annoyed, angry, resigned, Chelsea, one of the most famous unrecognizable young women in America, seemed totally OK with the whole thing. And that in and of itself is surprising. We’ve all kept our moms waiting, but keeping this mom waiting?

    What? No private jet to take her to caucus with Hill and Bill? No. Not only that, but no security.

    Yes, there she was sitting on the floor nibbling on junk food, sending out text messages on her handheld, happy as a clam, seemingly oblivious to the fact that she was sitting directly under the Hudson News wall display of 20 GQs with her dad’s picture on the cover.

    She might not have had a security detail, or maybe it was just the most discreet one in the world, but Big Daddy was watching her nonetheless.

    She sat on the plane with some other young folks from the Hillary campaign whom she didn’t seem to know, but who acted like she was just another volunteer.


  6. This is a very big message for the American people; a need for change across the generations and not a war across the generations. America should be one and supportive to the fellow American who are socially weak and this is not socialisms but Hillary, Hillary Clinton. Forget the polarizing, forget the negatives; all these are myths designed and created by selfish people, who wishes to slow down or possibly completely stop the social modernization of the american society. MSNBC? No thanks, this is something for bigots, partisan and selfish Anti-Clinton folk.

  7. HillaryLandRocks: One thing we can say about Rasmussen and Mason-Dixon is that after a month of surging, Obomination still trails Hillary in every poll.

  8. With most polls showing tightening races across the first batch of primary states, many of us are wondering what happens next. With Obama improving in the polls, can Hillary still win it all? I think she can, and this is how it might happen.

    Iowa scenarios: A lot of this will probably come down to how well can Hillary GOTV with women (and I do think women will close for Hillary at the end) vs Obama’s push for students. If Hillary wins, then I don’t think she can be stopped. If she can Iowa then she can win anywhere else, and voters will know it.

    The other scenarios are interesting. Say Edwards wins Iowa, with Hillary second, or in worst case scenario third. Frankly I don’t think it matters. An Edwards win in Iowa will almost surely assure Hillary a win in NH, and that’s all she really needs to get the train going. Edwards would probably get a bump in NH and he might even eat a bit into Obama’s support. Obama won’t really be able to make much of a case for himself in the few days between Iowa and NH, if he comes second to Edwards. To catch fire, as his increasingly messianic supporters hope, he needs a win in Iowa. If we add to this, the institutional strength of Hillary in NH which will help immensely with GOTV then I think she easily takes it there.

    Now to the more problematic scenario. Say Obama wins Iowa, with Hillary either second or third. Obama will then get a good bump in NH. Whether NH holds for Hillary or not will obviously depend on the Edwards supporters. I believe that if Edwards comes anything but first in Iowa, he will soon drop out. And even if he doesn’t, many Edward supporters will start jumping ship. After all, if he couldn’t beat Obama in Iowa (under this scenario) then how would he be able to do it anywhere else, polling usually a distant third. If Obama wins Iowa, the contest will become then more clearly focused between the two main front runners, and it will be decided, oddly enough by the progressive constituency of the democrats—ie Edwards supporters. And the more I think about it, the more it seems these people will break for Hillary once they get a good look at Obama. Consider what is happening even now on a place like Dkos. Alegre’s fantastic diary on Obama’s attacks on Krugman is number one on the recommended list, and reading through it, you see quite a few Edwards supporters stating ABO (anybody but Obama) positions, arguing that they would prefer Hillary to Obama. This is obviously because the man consistently takes up Republican talking points (Social security, Health Care), and rubs the progressive base the wrong way (gays, Oprah and unions). Basically, Obama is a Republican in Democrat’s clothing. He is almost like a Republican fifth column within the democratic party, spewing right wing talking points, and truly hurting us in terms of the general election. I think Hillary will at some point need to make a serious pitch for the progressive wing of the democratic party, because they will be the ones helping her bury Obama. They are starting to see the truth: that Obama is dangerous because his Republican rhetoric seriously undermines our ability to get things done (for ex health care). If Obama wins Iowa, and even if he wins NH, I still believe Hillary will come back. People will realize that if Obama talks like a Republican and walks like a Republican then he must be one. How many of his talking points are just pathetic parroting of what prominent right wingers have said? It is so obvious that he wants to win independents by blurring the line between democrats and republicans, but this means the democratic base will fall behind Hillary once the truth becomes clear. The way this whole Krugman issue is playing in the blogosphere truly surprised me and tells me that Obama is inadvertently placing himself to Hillary’s right—a very dangerous place to be in this primary.

  9. Look at the NV numbers in that MSNBC poll – a spread of only 8 pts between Barry and her ( Hillary -34 , O -26).

    Just yesterday ARG had Hillary leading by 20 pts, in trend with ALL the other polls done in Nevada.

    It just tells you not to take this poll too seriously.

  10. I just read somewhere that BHO is releasing his high school papers tomorrow to mock Hillary. I just hope he releases his state senate records and papers proving Hillary had a 20 year ambition for presidency at the same time. I also expect him to release documents detailing all his interactions and conversations with Rezko.

  11. dt,

    That’s just the way M-D’s polls look like…

    I’m actually encouraged by IA #s. Go to Realclearpolitics, and find the internals. Clinton has a clear lead in women voters…

    In terms of second choice questions of Biden/Richardson/Kucinich, Clinton and Obama are neck and neck at 29 to 30. Combined with the recent Zogby surveys, I have a feeling Hillary is improving among second choices of those second-tier candidates. This will be key for her victory in a tight race…

    If you look at the trendline, Clinton has not reallly lost much ground in this poll. I believe M-D conducted an IA poll back in June.

    Clinton 27(22)
    Obama 25(18)
    Edwards 21(21)

  12. That’s a good analysis Dulcinea…I agree with you. I read the progressive blogs from time to time and although I am not as politically astute as others on this board the amount of negative backlash against Obama over the Krugman business that is being posted seems unusual and out of the ordinary to me. It’s distinct from the rabid Obama worship that has been the norm in the past few weeks. And it’s just not on DKOS. If you go around to other blogs, newspaper editorials and other sites that allow reader feedback you will see it is there as well. I think Obama has hurt himself badly. I think this story will continue and get bigger as people are now starting to focus on who they really want to vote for in the primaries. I can’t believe any amount of personality worship will overcome the realization that Obama ideas and rhetoric are nothing but Republican lite beliefs.

  13. Some nice pictures of Bill from SC and Hillary, her mother, and daughter from IA.


  14. If that punk does go ahead and releases his high school papers to mock Hillary, the campaign should not let that go unanswered.

    Like you said ra1029, they should immediately pounce and demand that he release all his records from his time in the IL senate, Rezko et al and bring the issue of his hiding those records right to the forefront.

    And they should make it clear that while the punk has his school records, he somehow does not have any from his time as a state legislator and isnt that so interesting !! The petulant narcissist is getting more and more arrogant each day.

  15. M-D’s polls are quite iffy, but the internals are kind of interesting…

    In their NH, they asked such quesiton:

    If Clinton/Obama are the leaders after IA caucus, will you vote for:

    Clinton 38
    Obama 35
    Not sure 28

    Among Edwards supporters:
    Clinton 54
    Obama 35
    Not sure 11

  16. Just an FYI–if any of you want to know what goes on at the Oprah mania event in SC there will be live streaming at the candidate’s website and also a SC newspaper website, The State, will have live blogging. I doubt if it will be different from yesterday but you never know.

    For what it’s worth, ABC news on the radio this morning made a big deal about the amount of people getting up and leaving the Iowa event after Oprah was done speaking. They were obviously there just to see a celebrity…

  17. Thanks AmericanGal. I think you have hit the nail on the head. Personality worship, as you argue, is behind much of the support that Obama garners at this point. While such type of support can build on wishy washy notions like hope, it will be very vulnerable to sustained attention.

    kostner, you always provide a very lucid analysis of the polling going on. Statistical neophytes like myself really appreciate it. Plus those numbers for Edwards supporters’ choice bet Clinton and Obama are looking great!

    The more I think about the meta game in this primary, the less I worry about it. Obama is currently riding a media wave or positive coverage and Hillary is still leading! Even if he were to win Iowa and NH, the media scrutiny will sooner or later arrive, and Obama’s empty and dangerous rhetoric will be revealed. Hillary has the resources to ride this out and come out on top.

  18. The point of the Oprah stunt was to give Obama free air time with the american people. Something afforded no other candidate aside from Hillary. Hillary just needs to keep plugging. I do think she should trend more positive as she has this weekend. I hope Obama plays that stunt with his highschool papers. It’s the perfect chance for Hillary to make him look silly and immature.

  19. Oopps. I meant “including Hillary” not “aside from Hillary”. Only Obama has recieved that kind of free air time.

  20. Mason-Dixon traditionally doesn’t push leaners.

    Releasing high school papers — that sounds like a really petty stunt. Talk about milking. At this point, he’s getting to be something of a bully. He had his surrogate plant the racial accusation against Hillary last week — based on little else than unattributed rumors. He’s basically daring his fellow Dems (esp Hillary) to criticize him knowing full well that Democrats under all circumstances rely on 90%+ of the black vote just to stay even in the general, not to mention their reliance on the black vote at home in statewide races.

    His response to Krugman sounds like more of the same — rather than answering by defending his policy position, he implies that there must be some underlying reason why, in his view, Krugman has gone sour on him.

  21. HillaryLandRocks:

    BHO has a lot of surrogates (Robinson, Rich etc) in the major newspapers doing his bidding for him. As for TV media like MSNBC their pimping for BHO is primarily due to their Hillary hatred or fear than anything to do with BHO. If BHO is the nominee tweety will dump him in a second for a Rudy or McCain.

  22. hi hillfans, thanks admin for putting up the video of hillary in iowa. im not sure if cspan would air her events this weekend.

  23. Jerome Armstrong had a nice diary about why we should consider Oprah’s political judgment to be suspect:


  24. Another reading of the DK Alegre diary shows something better than the Krugman flap pissing folks off- it’s Taylor Marsh and Jane Hamsher’s stuff getting through on present votes, missed votes and his lack of progressive ideology. If this trend continues, looks for JE or Hillary 1st in IA with Bwak 3rd or 4th.

    Love this quite BTW:

    “He compromised on McClurkin…with TONS of advance notice. The more I learn about Obama, the more calculating he seems to me. I’m not saying that’s wrong, but forget about “Audacity” and “Hope” — they don’t live there.”

  25. A 527 needs to put up ads.

    I’m guessing that the Clinton campaign and Emily’s List are doing a pretty effective job of whispering about Saint Obama’s record of ducking votes on women’s reproductive issues.

  26. One of the most important lessons you learn in life is to differentiate between style and substance. If you fail to do so, sooner or later you will be conned.

    I happen to believe the left wing of the party is being conned by Obama–big time. They fall for the cult of personality like a bunch of children.
    They revel in his rhetoric and fail to examine the hard facts, until it becomes at some point the newest version of idiots delight.

    If they bothered to do any kind of due diligence, then they would realize that Obama is a de facto Republican, with a democratic label and none of the hard edges–as I said before a Trojan Horse.

    For those who have not yet figured him out, and are inclined to buy the sizzle rather than the steak, the little exchange he had with Paul Krugman on health care should be instructive. Also, they should understand the implication of one civil rights icon who referred to Clinton as no johnny come lately. And they should realize that this is merely the tip of the iceberg.

    Before any left wing democrat makes the final mistake and votes for Obama, they owe it to themselves to ask three pertinent questions: i) is he ready for prime time? ii) will he repesent their interests? iii) will there come to regret their vote and feel betrayed– the same way conservative Republicans do, now that they understand too well that good ol’ W is not and never was one of them.

  27. ra1029: I just watched the Bill Moyer interview you referenced. The treatment starts out with about seven or eight minutes of JFK and Romney (I shudder to use a conjunction with those two names.) It then proceeds for about 17 or 18 minutes in a brilliantly literate and thoughtful discussion about misogyny and Hillary. It is a must see for all progressive and thoughtful voters.

  28. That is a must see video, mj. By the way, it is “misogyny”. I need to read what I typed before I submit. 🙂

  29. I have never failed to choose — and support — the Dem primary winner. This goes back to Lyndon Johnson which, of course, was among the easiest.
    There was one exception — Bobby Kennedy — but that was not a failure on our part. I was a very early Bill Clinton supporter.

    I do not intend to break that record now.

    Here is what I am looking for:

    The Oprah surge may have already happened — now the backlash? Pundits cannot allow one woman to have a bigger effect than they have so I expect more of the “where’s the beef” articles.
    One or two enterprising reporters may actually find out about the Rezko affair.

    At any rate, if they are fooling with the polls, they have made a huge mistake. It’s all about expectations and they have raised Obama’s to the sky.

    Once they open the oven door, the souffle will fall.

  30. hwc: effective job of whispering

    I think it needs to be about the whole package: how he never takes a stand on anything. It has the additional benefit of deflating his whole speech in the park rationale when you consider that he remained pretty quiet when people actually were paying attention.

    Follow it up with his refusal to respond to criticism re: his stances directly.

  31. Pundits cannot allow one woman to have a bigger effect than they have so I expect more of the “where’s the beef” articles.

    Good point but aren’t they basically scared of Oprah? They’re in the same business.

  32. Eriposte of the Left Coaster has a nice summary of Obama’s history as a triangulator. I snipped a few paragraphs, the entire article is worth a read. It would be nice if the Clinton camp could make sure progressives know what eriposte is pointing out: the Obama of image is not the Obama of reality.


    In the past months, I’ve been comparing the voting records and policy positions of Sen. Obama,☼ Sen. Clinton☼ and Sen. Edwards (and sometimes also Sen. Dodd☼ and Sen. Biden) in a series of posts on a variety of public policy issues that are important to corporatist interests, the Bankruptcy Bill, Bush’s controversial judicial and AG nominations, campaign contributions from PACs/”special interests” (here, here and here), Iraq (here, here and here) and Iran (here, here and here). This brings me to another important topic – which I’ve only written about sporadically (mostly in the context of Senator John Edwards) – that I believe is now both timely and critical to talk about, particularly in the context of Sen. Obama.

    You see, Sen. Obama’s campaign has been very critical of Sen. Clinton for being a Triangulator.TM Here’s a recent comment from his campaign (emphasis mine throughout this post, unless otherwise stated):

    Barack Obama said Monday the nation has had enough of ”triangulation and poll-driven politics,” a reference to the presidency of Bill Clinton, the husband of his chief Democratic rival. Addressing a convention center rally dominated by students, Obama said that he had spoken out against going to war in Iraq in 2002, even as advisers told him it would be a mistake to challenge a popular president, George W. Bush. Then an Illinois state lawmaker, Obama said he did so because he did not want to ”enter the United States Senate already having compromised on core principles.”

    ”We’ve had enough of … triangulation and poll-driven politics,” he said. ”That’s not what we need right now.’

    Well, maybe Sen. Clinton is a triangulator or maybe she isn’t. What is clear to me, though, is that since Sen. Obama has made this one of his key lines of criticism, it raises the obvious question:

    If Sen. Clinton is a triangulator, what is Sen. Obama exactly?

    In this post, I will focus on Sen. Obama’s past positions and statements that, to me, are pretty revealing of what he really believes and how he stacks up on the topic of triangulation against the Eeeevil Calculating TriangulatorTM Sen. Hillary Clinton. The data shines a bright light on the real “elephant in the room”: there is the usual, huge Clinton Double Standard at work when it comes to portrayals of Sen. Clinton as a triangulator in comparison to the almost saintly portrayals of Sen. Obama. (Please refer to the Conclusions section for a synopsis of my findings).

    heaps more…

  33. Get ready to bust a gut .. The Weekly Standard has an article up on “Saint Barack of Iowa”.

    Now, before you read it, you need to know that this is NOT an attack piece from the right wing. It’s almost warm and fluffy …. The Repugs really, really would like BHO to be the Dem nominee. They really, really would NOT like the Dem nominee to be Hillary.


  34. The Weekly Standard article should be the final rebuttal to the idiots who have been saying that the Republicans fear Obama and want to run against Hillary. That is the good news. The bad news is they will still be idiots.

  35. The fourth question for left wing democrats per the above is why are the republican operatives like Rove, Kristol et. al. pushing Obama, and giving him advice on how to beat Hillary? Does that give them any reason to question their own support for Obama?

  36. i don’t think the pundits would be attacking oprah.. it’s fine for her to do her thing but, we’re not voting for oprah. i don’t hear obama saying anything specific about what he would do. why should he be president? i thoguht maybe at these events he would at least say what he would do about some specific things like health care, education, subprime mortgage, anything but it seems like he doesn’t even have a new speech.

    they’re only going to fill up half the stadium (if that) in sc evidently.

    we’ll see what happens. this is a serious election. it shouldn’t be decided because of a celebrity telling people how to vote. i don’t think i’m the only one who sees it that way.

    i am glad hillary is out there at small events in iowa talking to the voters. that is much better than a circus.

  37. If you aren’t already a member, sign up for BlueHampshire.com where there is now a weekly poll for the NH primary.

    This week’s poll has Hillary tied (at this moment) with JE and BHO.

    Although a small poll, HillaryIs44 can help out Hillary’s weekly numbers.

  38. Yes, the Boston Globe is a New England-wide read newspaper. Here in N.H., our paper with the largest circulation is the Union Leader, but they have come out for John McCain.

  39. im surprised by this msnbc poll-and the headline is clinton in trouble. i wonder if any 527s exist for hillary that can go after obama’s trsutworthyness as a dem. she is seen as least honest-and that alarms me. obama seems sucessful at painting hillary as a liar. something has to be done

  40. It’s sexism. Hopefully women will reject this bs. Ever since the Oprah event the sexism is reaching fever pitch, IMO. We’ll have to see how Hillary handles it. I trust her to handle this.

  41. mj: Ever since the Oprah event the sexism is reaching fever pitch

    Sure. The storyline that the media wants to write is that Oprah beat Hillary and ultimately, that silly women are like cows who can be led around by a talk show host.

  42. he as to be hit very hard on the present votes,picket lines broken, ss talking pts etc. toss in krugman-in one ad. make dems doubt him.

  43. i just do not like being lectured or preached to with him waving his finger like that. it gives me a headache.

  44. Let’s step back for a moment, and stop worrying about democratic race. The situation is in a flux, but I’m confident about Hillary’s chance.

    Let’s take a moment to study the GOP race. What’s the situation there? As I have said for months, Rudy will eke out a win and I’m sticking my gun to this prediction.

    Obviously Huckabee is becoming the hottest commodity in the race. I think Romney is done. Make no mistake, Huckabee will win Iowa by double digits, the conservative base has found their saviour… Romney may still win NH, but it’s really irrelavent… Huckabee will win SC, and battle with Rudy in FL.

    The likely scenario is that Rudy will finish ‘surging’ Huckabee in big states on Feb 5th…

    I predict a likely Rudy/Huckabee ticket.

  45. i like the givhan article actually. she makes a nice point about wearing the really bold jackets on occasion – it’s true, that requires bravado and are a good statement i think. the slideshow version with narration has a lot of great hillary pictures.

  46. huckabee win in Iowa is VERY good news for us. it will force independents to run to save mccain or ron paul or even romney himself. Hillary leads almost 2 to 1 among registered democrats against obama. moreover, the obama surge and resurge are pretty much over. latest polls are showing reduced leads for Hillary because of oversampling of independents. so huckabees win will arrest that for sure, and thats when we will see the real DEMOCRAT nominee out of NH.

  47. BMerrifield, I read the Boston Globe article. The thing that struck me was that the precedent for Obama is not JFK, or Lincoln, or Reagan, but a more contemporary politican cut from the same mold who has since endorsed him, namely Massachusetts Governor Deval Parick.

    If Patrick is the most appropriate example, the the fact that he has been unsuccessful in a much smaller arena, suggests that Obama could not effectively address the far greater problems facing this country.

    The text of the article is set forth belowWhen hope is not enough
    Email|Print| Text size – + By Joan Vennochi
    Globe Columnist / December 9, 2007
    BARACK OBAMA is promising to change politics as usual in America. As Massachusetts already knows, that can be one tough promise to keep.

    more stories like this
    Obama angles for women’s vote with help from Oprah Winfrey
    Oprah: Obama’s ‘moment is now’
    Obama campaign to collect canned goods at N.H. Oprah rally
    Agreement averts union picket at N.H. Obama event
    Patrick campaigns for Obama in N.H.
    Last year, Deval Patrick promised to do the same, when he ran for governor. Voters bought the message, making him the first Democrat in 16 years to win the corner office, and the first black candidate to do so. Symbolically, Patrick’s election represented dramatic change for this commonwealth. But his first year in office shows that it can be hard to get beyond being the face of change, to actually changing politics.

    Viewed from the Bay State, the similarities between Obama and Patrick are striking. They go beyond skin color, personal charm, Harvard educations, Chicago connections, and a shared political consultant, David Axelrod. Obama’s message during last week’s visit to the Globe was an echo of Patrick’s: hope versus fear, the power of a less partisan agenda, and the appeal of a less polarizing tone. Of course, Obama already test-marketed that message in his 2004 run for US Senate and memorialized it in his book “The Audacity of Hope.”

    Patrick, who had never held elective office, made rookie mistakes. Relatively minor indulgences, such as redecorating his office and leasing a Cadillac, played like politics as usual. Then, when he needed to practice a bit of politics as usual, he didn’t. Democrats who control the Massachusetts Legislature ignored virtually every major budget and policy initiative presented by a fellow Democrat. Patrick’s supporters insist he laid the foundation for substantive change. But in the wake of big expectations for a new administration, even some supporters are disappointed in his missteps, along with aspects of his agenda, such as bringing casino gambling to Massachusetts.

    Symbolically, Obama’s election as president would amount to even more dramatic change. Obama has held elective office on the state and national level, so he has much more political experience than a neophyte like Patrick. An Obama White House would signal the start of a fresh political era for a country long divided by race, and that could be change enough. His agenda would certainly differ from the Bush agenda. But what would Obama actually change that rival Democrats wouldn’t? And why should voters believe that he has special powers to accomplish those changes?

    During his recent visit to the Globe, Obama was asked if the change he is talking about is more style than substance, and if that is the real distinction between him and Hillary Clinton, his chief rival. “I’m not sure you can separate out the policy from the atmospherics in the sense that all of us are talking to the same experts,” he replied. He went on to say, “During the course of a campaign, there is going to be a strong convergence in a Democratic primary on various issues.”

    In other words, yes, the major difference with Clinton is one of style, not substance – Obama’s “being able to work both sides of the aisle,” versus her alleged inability. Of course, there’s no absolute certainty a Congress controlled by Democrats would go along with an Obama agenda any more than a state Legislature controlled by Democrats went along with Patrick’s. From Beacon Hill to Washington, ego has a way of kicking in.

    Asked for evidence of experience in shepherding initiatives in Congress, Obama mentioned work he has done on nuclear nonproliferation and ethics reform. Then, he gently complained about editorial boards who question his experience, all the while “fulminating about how incompetent Washington is. And yet the question becomes, why haven’t you gotten more fully steeped in this culture that is dysfunctional in order to qualify you for bringing about change in Washington?”

    Like Patrick, Obama appeals to voters’ better instincts for common ground. It’s a seductive appeal; according to some recent polling, voters could be ready to break for change versus experience.

    It’s a long way from Iowa to the Oval Office. But if Obama won the nomination and then the presidency, he would face even bigger expectations than the governor of Massachusetts, more powerful special interests, and deeper cultural and political schisms.

    Obama is asking voters to trust that he is the one who can pull off this magic trick, via personal charm and hopeful rhetoric.

    As is often noted, Massachusetts is not America. But even here, hope is not yet enough to dramatically change government, politics or minds.

    The change is Obama. Obama is the change. Maybe.

    Joan Vennochi’s e-mail address is vennochi

  48. In a sense, Republicans are simply smarter, and I’ll give them some credit. It is apparent Romney’s religion is a big hurdle. He is gotten all sorts of attention from national media, but can not move up in head-to-head matchups against all democratic candidates. This tells you something is fundamentally wrong with his candidacy. I didn’t know what it was, and had a hard time believing it’s really because of his ‘mormon’ faith.
    … But I’m convinced now that’s the main reason… This is exactly why Republicans won’t choose Romney, they are savy enough to know he is unelectable despite all the wishful thinking from left blogs…

    I’m not so sure about democratic primary voters’ intelligence… Clinton is by far the most electable candidate in the race, but they are now giving her trouble… I believe she will prevail in the end, but I’m disgusted by dems’ dumbness…

    A matchup between Huckabee and Obama will be a disaster for democratic party. Obama does not connect well with ordinary voters, he can not debate, he does not have any credentials, he is no longer fresh to the mass. In every aspect, Obama is simply inferior to Huckabee. Obama will lose in a landslide fashion in Ohio and Florida. I predict many working class, rural democrats(so called Reagan democrats) will simply defect to Huckabee…

    A matchup between Hillary and Huckabee is still tough, but winnable. Hillary may not have the ‘freshness’, but she is a good debater, she is a policy wonker, she will inspire women voters. In the end, she will eke out a win in key swing states such as Ohio and Florida. It’s going to be close though…

  49. kosnter, if rudy is the gop nominee i would love to here the so called moral party attack hillary on values. this guy has a past full of character issues.

  50. mj: So what? Don’t they have a sense of ethics?

    Clarify? Why is it unethical to show the event from a Southern and majority black audience perspective? I probably don’t understand what you mean.

    I agree that he’s getting massive exposure, but the SC event is more interesting than the IA events for a host of reasons. Oprah returns to the south, and frankly, two very successful black professionals sharing the stage in the Old Confederacy is fascinating — I don’t like his style personally, and I think he’s problematic in a number of ways, but the historical significance of this event can’t be denied.

  51. Another thing that’s interesting — the audience composition. Not even Oprah can bridge the racial divide in SC — as far as I could tell, the audience appeared 90% black. Kind of undermines the unity message.

  52. gladiatorstail,

    At this point, I see nobody can stop Huckabee in Iowa. Iowan Republicans are simply religious nuts… Huckabee connects well with them. I believe Romney and Huckabee were pretty much on par before CNN debate… But the CNN debate has changed the landscape forever…

    Romney and Rudy looked bad by attacking each other on petty stuff. Huckabee simply nailed that debate. The post-debate instant poll in Iowa showed he won that round by a wide margin…

    The newsweek poll might not be that accurate. But after I reviewed the internals, I simply don’t believe that race is winnable by Romney. The internals were showing Huckabee had a double digits lead among all registered republicans… No matter how you slice that pie, and no matter how strong Romney’s organization is, it’s simply going to be a landslide victory for Huckabee. He simply has much more base voters to reply on… No organizational strength from Romney camp can make up for it… The following M-D poll simply verified Newsweek poll’s findings…

    The democratic race is winnable by Team Clinton since the race is virtually a dead-heat among all registered dems in Iowa(30 to 29)… Unless that changes dramatically in the next few weeks, organization/georgaphic strength/second choices will determine the results.

  53. They have three news items from yesterday. The blog stuff seems a bit dated, but they probably have bigger fish to fry …

  54. I believe Clinton is back to DC busy preparing for the debate. It’s a crucial debate, and she can not repeat Romney/Rudy’s mistake by looking ‘petty’…

    On positive development is that since Obama believes he is now the ‘frontrunner’ in Iowa, he doesn’t want to attack either…

  55. You know, I understand it’s nice, two successful african americans in SC to boost Obama’s candidacy. It’s historic. I get that. However, I still think CNN is obligated to balance it’s coverage. They also covered her entire Iowa speech. And, I just read the anchors high-fived eachother after Oprah’s SC speech. I think that goes a bit far as to what is fair coverage in a presidential primary.

  56. kostner:

    I have telling that for a long time. If Huckabee is the nominee, dems better watch out. Only Hillary might be able to eke out a victory in a close fight.

    Huck is more fresh than Obama on national stage. He is even less connected to all things wrong that went on in washington than Obama. He can talk religion/faith better than Obama in the sense he comes across as a humble person where as Obama mannerisms and way in which he lectures people shows cockiness. Obama does not have any more foreign policy experience than Huck. Huck has much more executive experience than Obama and he is a southern baptist preacher. He will cream Obama in the general.

  57. another_reader: The problem with pieces on Hillary’s clothing is that it sets a different standard for a female candidate than a male one. Let’s get a few reviews of how flattering Obama’s suits are to his hips, and then I will sign on with the viewpoint that it’s not misogyny.

  58. Maybe they thought she scored a good speech. I have no idea. But, it doesn’t seem at all out of the ordinary for the media to me/

  59. That seems a little bit too partisan to me.

    BTW, I watched today for the first time. I thought her speech was just ok. A little forced.

  60. mj,

    it’s nice to stop complaining. There’s nothing we can do the change that. Hillary is ALWAYS battling unfair situation, that’s just life…

    In terms of SC race, I just don’t believe Oprah’s appeal matters in the end. As I analyzed before, the competition is along race and gender line. In the end, AA voters will rally to Hussein Obama’s side, that’s just the historical pattern how this played out…

    However, if Edwards loses all previous races, many of those white primary voters will likely consolidate behind Clinton. Oprah’s rally has consolidated Obama’s natural base, by the same token, she may have also pushed away those white voters…

    In conclusion, if Edwards fades away, Clinton will squeak out a win in SC due to her strength among whites and African American women voters. If Edwards continues to play spoiler, Obama wins…

    We can’t reply on SC to be a ‘firewall’… I also don’t believe it will have any significant impact on following states since Edwards at this point will likely all drop out…

  61. In terms of SC race, I just don’t believe Oprah’s appeal matters in the end

    Does if it’s tight. If it’s a two-way, she needs a bigger share of the black vote than he has of the white vote. Pretty much that simple.

  62. ra1029,

    You are absolutely right. The society is still full of bias and prejudice towards woman and minority candidates. I just don’t see the scenario Obama can beat Huckabee in OH and FL… If democratic party loses OH, it’s over…

    You have explained the reasons very eloquently. I also have to add that those ‘conservative democrats'(mostly rural whites) will have no reason to back an ultra-liberal African American politician over a social-conservative populist Huckabee… It’s going to be Lieberman vs. Lamont all over again… Remember Lieberman still attracted over 1/3 conservative/moderate democrats in general election despite a humiliating loss in primary fight…

  63. HillaryLandRocks,

    Not really. All polling data before Edwards’ ads campaign suggested Clinton was polling close to 50% among whites, and Obama was polling at around 10-15% among whites…

    If it’s a two-way race(assuming Edwards no longer a spoiler), it’s hard to believe Obama will make much inroad into white primary voting bloc… Clinton will win since she has a much more balanced portfolio…

  64. DCDemocrat – i know it’s a double standard (i am a woman) but i didn’t think it was a negative article. the pantsuits really work for her.. appearance matters & more for women unfortunately, but i see enough bad suits here in dc that i am glad she found a style of them that fits well and looks professional and stands out, too. 🙂

  65. mj,

    I’m not saying she will lose all. I’m saying her share among AA will shrink in SC in the end. She polled regularly at 35-45% among AA community there. It’s simply unrealistic to believe she can maintain this unless Obama loses IA/NH/NV/MI… She will be lucky to hang on to 20-35% among AA voters there in the end.

    As I said, if Edwards is out, Clinton will eke out a win over Obama in SC…

  66. I am quite sure that as US Attorney Rudy would have been quick to indict any high government official who used public resources to liason with his mistress, but when he became Mayor of New York, and then America’s Mayor it no longer mattered. On what meat doth Caesar feed that he has grown so great?

  67. Clinton will win since she has a much more balanced portfolio…

    Not really. Her AA vote share has been in the 20s as of late, pre-Oprah. That was my point. Moreover, you are assuming the same level of AA turnout as in ’04.

    If it’s a two-way in SC, Obama’s pitch to black voters will be major pressure not to cost him the prize.

    That’s not to say that she might not retain the necessary 20%, or whatever — but it’ll be a nail-biter.

  68. Well, there’s nothing we can do about that. I think gender will play a more important role in the nominating process that race, in the end. Either way, Kostner’s right, we can’t dwell on that.

  69. I think appealing to unity is legitimate. The blogs pretend identity politics are evil, but that’s just crap. What I have a problem with is the double-standard — it’s not permitted for women.

    Imagine two female anchors high-fiving after a Hillary speech. The outcry!

  70. mj — this has been bothering me for some time. Her use of the ‘gender card’ has been quite mild as compared to Obama’s identity politicking.

  71. Infact, I think that is the reason the media and her male counterparts are so quick to claim the “gender” card. Ultimately, if women do decide Hillary is the woman to become the first female president, well, than nothing can stop her. The democratic electorate is highly female. She may even win some Republican women cross over support.

  72. Notwithstanding his small town roots, Baptist Minister background, and lack of foreign policy experience, Huckabee is the most dangerous candidate we can face in 2008 for the very reason mentioned by Professor Jameison at the conclusion of the Moyers interview.

    Whether or not Huckabee gets the nomination is of course a separate question. But assuming he does, and Hillary is our candidate then I am quite sure that we will win.

    But in the highly unlikely event that Obama
    snookers democrats into nominating him, I will give you long odds on Huckabee. One should never underestimate the power of a machine that was able to make good ol’ W president.

  73. I hope so.

    One thing about Michelle Obama’s argument that black voters are trapped into the same old equally applies to women in general. One thing the media is trying to do is suppress our THINKing about the possibilities.

  74. Mark Penn has a post on the Mason-Dixon poll on the campaign website. It’s a consistent outlier. One poll from another, the big picture is: neck-and-neck in Iowa, Hillary leading every else, strong on Super Tuesday.

    Hil was on “Wall Street Journal Report” – she told their ‘millions of millionaires’ viewership to kiss the Bush tax cuts goodbye — when the host started playing the violin on behalf of the poor aristocracy, Hillary burst out laughing. It was priceless. She is the Boss!

  75. mj: Ultimately, if women do decide Hillary is the woman to become the first female president, well, than nothing can stop her. The democratic electorate is highly female.

    Exactly — they hit the panic button when she started hitting 50+ w/ regularity and started their voter suppression programming.

  76. HillaryLandRocks, I agree. This is a conversation women need to have, IMO. This would be a huge wasted opportunity. A female candidate like Hillary comes around once in a generation. I hope women see that. That’s why I hate how Obama has co-opted change. For me, personally, Hillary provides the biggest change of my life time. Also, she’s a mom. I think a mother will make a better president.

  77. For every voter out there who would not never vote for Hillary because she is a woman, the ultimate question is this:

    Thinking back on your own life, can you recall a leader, mentor or associate who helped you achieve your goals that happened to be female, and where would you would be today if you had failed or refused to give her a chance?

  78. wbboei, I think it is a huge asset, and the media keeps trying to handicap her from using it. I think she should stop letting them dictate who she can appeal to.

  79. Speaking of the GOP race, check out the first line of this AP article on Rudy’s MTP appearance.

    WASHINGTON – Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani on Sunday defended the expenses incurred by his security detail as he was beginning an extramarital affair with current wife Judith Nathan, saying police made the decision after she received threats.

    lol. Not the kind of sentence you ever want to see if you’re running for presidenent.

  80. I don’t think I’ll see another viable woman candidate for president in my lifetime, and I’m not that old.

    That nonsense about “it has to be the right woman” is something I reject an a ny minute. There is no such candidate — the perfect woman.

    I also reject the old saw about how she’s advantaged due to her husband. I say her husband, and most men running for political office are advantaged by their loyal, supportive, often bread-winning wives. Take a look at Michelle Obama — she’s been the real breadwinner in the family. Look at Kerry’s wife. Equally important is that I see no infrastructure supporting women in the political establishment. Do you see a woman with a relatively short political career getting the kind of quick support that Obama got from financial backers? That Bill has friends that can help is just the same thing. It’s a double-standard to whine that she has support through her marriage.

    I’ll also say that in terms of social progress, we seem to be moving backwards, not forwards. When I was a kid, my mother seemed far more optimistic than I am now.

  81. I completely agree HLR. It’s ludicrous to think a First Lady is the establishment candidate. Ofcourse, she never would have gotten the support Obama did if she had been such a novice.

  82. we can whine and guess, and complain all day long, and its still nothing but an unknown…

    i once mentioned here about my republican friend that will vote for hillary.
    well i my BEST friend at work, likes obama, she feels the calling for a black person in the white house, its her dream…
    i talk about hillary with her, and she says she hasnt made up her mind.
    but i know that isn’t true, she will vote for obama, its where her heart is…

    we have a mix for the first time, that leaves our old ideas of what people want up in the air…
    you cannot change peoples hopes and dreams whatever they are..

    its a wait and see, what the dems in this country want more…

  83. united 12 — complaints are not in references to people’s choices, but rather, the media influencing choices.

  84. From the beginning Big Media has promoted the false dichotomy of change vs. experience.

    It depends on the meaning of change in a 4th quarter 4th down situation.

    If change is defined as the ability to win the game then Hillary is the quarterback you want.

    If change is defined as a new quarterback, a pass and a prayer, then Obama is the man.

  85. i totally agree with the media bias…
    what i am saying is if oprah or the media convinces someone to vote for obama, i believe its because they were his already…
    and hillary couldnt have done anymore to win them over…

    i honestly have little or no respect for most iowa voters.(not all)
    if these people are waiting for the last minute to decide, i dont believe it!
    did any one of us here not know who the candidated were long ago?
    have we not be socially concious enough to be worry about issues thru out the years?
    if these undecided havent got a clue about the candidates yet, honestly i think they are not the model voters i’ld want make any important decisions.
    it leads me to believe that these little places, are all about the money that the campaigns bring in, as well as the attention they can eke out every four years…
    that sounds rough, and i shouldn’t say it… but it doesnt mean it hasnt crossed my mind…
    and it makes me think they can be bought, and these are the people with no dream, but the ones really up for grabs.(or sale…)

  86. NBC news is having an Oprah love fest this evening. They showed clip after clip from her speech. Nothing on Hillary at all.

  87. I don’t believe that. I think Iowa voters will come home to Hillary. Do you know Bill Clinton has the highest approval there than any of the candidates? That is going to help Hill in these final weeks. I just wish she would keep it positive like she does in the new ad and did this weekend. I think it’s time to focus on the positive.

  88. united 12 — what i am saying is if oprah or the media convinces someone to vote for obama, i believe its because they were his already…

    For example, a feminist leader at celiff’s univ was considering Obama. Celiff had the opportunity to talk to her and go over obama’s voting record in the state senate. She’s now a Hillary supporter.

    The media narrative about obama is all rosy — hey, he’s offering to fulfill all kinds of dreams.

  89. MJ I would like Hillary to remain positive too but if no one points out the Republican rhetoric of Obama, his less than stellar performance as a senator and his less than progressive ideas who will do that? How will average voters get this information? The media apparently has this race basically over and Obama the nominee. I hate to sound pessimistic but that’s what I see.

    I too hope that Democratics in Iowa and elsewhere will take time and think before voting—that they will “return home” to the candidate that will actually fight for their basic ideals. The question is how should Hillary and her campaign help make this happen. Do they stay above it all or do they keep fighting the fight to get people to look closer before they vote for Obama. And is it still possible to derail the media created Obama juggernaut?

    Tim Russert on NBC news tonight was saying Hillary must now win Iowa or risk losing it all. If this is the new theme the MSM is going to put out from now on can she afford not to fight back, a least a little?

    I don’t know the answers to these…I like that those here with more experience in political campaigns often point out that the media spin and polling don’t necessarily reflect what will actually happen when voters go to the polls. I hope that this is indeed what will happen.

  90. NBC sucks. Russert was on spewing his garbage and using a bad poll. They showed Oafrah footage. she did the whole preacher cadence. Makes me want to puke she’s such a liar.

  91. Forget the media. I think Hillary has done a good job of showing the contrasts and she should counter any attacks directly, but I also think she has to get back to her message. I happen to think it is the winning message.

  92. MJ, that’s what I want as well. My concern is will that be enough?

    Quote from Obama tonight. Of course it’s from MSNBC:

    “Who knew?” he added incredulously. “We might just pull this thing off! We might shock the world!”

  93. ameri-gal

    t-russert can take a flying f***. forget about what happens in iowa. i spent the afternoon canvassing in NH. i know it’s hard to believe, timmy, but people really do love hillary.

    january 8, 2008 cannot come soon enough.

  94. united 12,

    It the majority dems are as dumb as your ‘best friend’, I am afraid to say there will be neither a black nor a woman president for the next 20 years…

    Obama simply can’t win general election, period. We’ve discussed this quite a bit. If he happens to grab the nomination and loses, dems will have no appetite for such ‘experiement’ any longer in the future. Remember that will be three losing elections in a row under the worst GOP ruler…

  95. One more thing, and I’m done w/ this subject. If not here, then where else?

    I’m pretty irritated that by Jan, we will have had 3 debates exclusive to African American issues, one Brown and Black, one Univision, a cancer forum, that awful union mess in Chicago, and so on. Not a single debate devoted to issues important to women.

    Here are some sample questions I’d submit.

    Obama — please name a female colleague who would receive the same level of financial and institutional support you did upon announcing.

    Edwards — your campaign has argued that you are more electable than the others. For the sake of argument, let’s assume that a white male is more electable, generally speaking, than a black male, or a woman. Shouldn’t we vote for the best candidate and pledge to support him/her with extra effort to overcome these types of barriers instead of arguing for the simpler path?

    Biden — Your outreach to women has consisted primarily of discussing Violence Against Women legislation. Thank you for your efforts. What else does your candidacy offer women?

    Hillary — You’ve talked about breaking the glass ceiling. How does this specifically impact American women across class and race lines?

    and so on.

  96. MSNBC has a Howard Fineman article up from NewsWeek. http://www.newsweek.com/id/74581

    In it Fineman points out Bwak played second fiddle and that the rally was also a concert with a bunch of entertainers. I don’t think all of the crowd was there for Bwak. Also, he said Bwak was too long-winded and the crowd grew restless when he dragged on. He was nice about it, but the criticism was there.

  97. Great news alcina…it makes me feel a lot better about the road ahead (Ditto your comments on Russert!)

  98. OkieAtty: Bwak played second fiddle and that the rally was also a concert with a bunch of entertainers.

    Speaking of fiddles, I happened to look at the SC show around 12:45, not realizing that it didn’t start for another two hours. Saw a young man playing the violin — he was pretty good!

  99. Huckabee is now the nightmare candidate for the right – they may still nominate him, but with the DuMond revelations, he’s going to have a very, very tough time bringing people out to vote. The Republicans have those law and order fantasies, and Huckabee, having helped parole a convicted rapist who then murdered two other women, is going to have a very tough time getting those people out to vote. Their devotion to law and order outweighs their allegiance to the Republican party. They won’t likely vote Dem but then again, Clinton got another 100k police officers federally funded while he was president and didn’t pardon Peltier or Mumia.

    I think a small chunk of the GOP will not vote if either Huckabee or Giuliani is the nominee. The fantasy on the left is that Clinton organizes the right against her, and they’ll turn out in droves to vote against her. I don’t think that’s the case. I think her nomination depresses the rightwing vote (because she is proof of their failure to win the culture war and they are tired of battling it), and if they can’t even run on law and order against the Dems, I think a lot of ’em will just stay home.

  100. HillaryLandRocks:

    It all depends on what happens in Iowa. If Huckabee wins by a landslide, you will see lot of independents rushing to the republican primary. Huckabee doing well in Iowa is good for Clinton, IMO.

  101. hillfans, in a perfect world i would love to be all positive in a campaign and all BUT when you have nasty attacks from obama, edwards, the nutkooks, and the main stream media all is on the table. whoever is old enough to remember dukakis in 1988 should know. no response to negative attacks and i will show you an BIG loser. hillary is now giving as good as she gets. it’s sad but it is reality nowadays.

  102. Well, I know she has to counter his attacks, but I wish she would just be more effective in the future. Pick the right fights. be direct. And, 80% positive message.

  103. kostner,

    thats the crux of the matter, for some people its not about politics or the future of the world…
    its about something else…
    for my friend, its about black people finally getting recognition…
    i’m just saying, she is not the only one with view.
    and for some of these hippy dippy, new world, channelling white folk, well for them its the whole age of aquarius thing all over again…

  104. united 12, as an african-american i find people of my race are really conflicted(not me, 1,000% hillary backer) on supporting a black man who has a real shot at the white house. jackson, sharpton, and chislom i believe in 1972 had no chance in hell being nominated let alone elected. i run into militant type blacks whom would support an ax murderer for office just becuase his skin tone. so in short you can’t convince blacks who blindly support obama becuase of race. what pisses me off when they put this black guilt trip on me like i HAVE to support obama.

  105. Right now I’m cutting a video loop for a Hil fundraiser in NY–mashing up some of her campaign ads. It was the first time I’ve seen the ‘Hillblazers’ video from Wellesley. That was such a great, positive, upbeat event – and when I think of how it was spun in the media – it’s beyond vile. An inspiring speech to young women students about breaking the glass ceiling is ‘playing the gender card?’ If a candidate makes an inspiring speech to African American students at Howard University, is that playing the ‘race card’?

    The MSM is held in contempt by so many people — I’m betting their influence is not that great.

  106. The preparation for the Bill event is going very well. We made lovely 12′ banners (Hawkeyes for Hillary! and Go Hillary!) and we are going to have a wonderful event. I love the new ad, it is very very powerful. We are gaining so much steam here right now. I love it. Hillary is doing awesome here now. I think people will be surprised on caucus night when we win overwhelmingly. Can’t wait for tomorrow……:)

  107. Terrondt, I was at a party on Friday and we started talking about the campaign. So two of my friends (both Jewish) started talking up Obama – they assumed I was for O and they didn’t want to say they liked Hillary. So I just mentioned I thought Hil was a tough lady, and then they started saying great things about Hil. So they feel the Obama guilt thing too.

    I think this will work out fine. Hil will win, she’ll be a great two-term President, and Obama can run against Jim Webb in 8 years.

  108. mj:

    I agree with kostner. Let us stop worrying about things that are not in our or Hillary’s control. This happened in October. Some volunteer did it. She was asked to resign. These things happen in a campaign. When you run a national campaign with the kind of negative press scrutiny that she is getting, any small thing will be blown out of proportion. These kinds of unexpected stuff happens in all campaigns. They did not come out because press does not care.

    If we keep blaming her campaign for every thing every volunteer did, all of us have to hide under the rugs and never come out. There are lots of volunteers working very hard for her day and night to get her across the finish line. We should keep our focus on what matters most, Jan 3rd victory.

  109. canaan, before this year i would have supported obama in 2016. no way now. i will support whomever hillary’s vp or is rival. no way in hell.

  110. celiff:

    Should we all be praying for a good or bad weather on Jan 3rd? Which one will help her more relative to the competition? I am assuming she has a lot of older voters on her side. So a good weather will help. But will that result in even more 17 somethings turning up for Obama?

  111. Should we all be praying for a good or bad weather on Jan 3rd?

    I’m biased — I have to think about leaving IA on the 4th … don’t want to be snowed in …

  112. I also read that of the top three Hillary has the highest percentage of supporters who haven’t caucused before. I heard a lot of establishment folks in Iowa are supporting Edwards followed by Obama. Hillary however has the support of Vilsacks and Ruth Harkin.

  113. feb 5th can’t come quick enough. i know jan 3 is just around the corner but i feel feb 5th is the defining date for the primary season.

  114. ra1029, I saw that volunteer e-mail story on the yahoo news page. I didn’t know it happened in October. Talk about old news …

  115. ra1029: I also read that of the top three Hillary has the highest percentage of supporters who haven’t caucused before.

    A win based on first-time caucus attendees would be so satisfying.

  116. come feb 5th, super tuesday late night mydud and daily kooks will be overloaded and crashed. that night i would suggest the nutkooks stay away from window ledges high up.

  117. terrondt,

    You are absolutely right. I understand the desire of many African Americans of wanting first black president just as I understand the desire of women voters who want a woman president. But the bottom line is who is qualified for the job? and most importantly, who can actually win?

    I think the current head-wind is caused by MSM. They’re fooling democrats into thinking next year’s election is just a cakewalk, and any democrat can win. This is competely bullshit…

  118. I’m guessing Hillary wasn’t campaigning today. It seems weird to take a day off now, considering the caucus is only 3 1/2 weeks away. Maybe things are going better than the MSM would have us believe, lol.

  119. Paula:

    It happened in October. The lade volunteer forwarded an email and was outed by a Dodd supporter. Clinton camp asked her to resign once they came to know of it.

    As far as I am concerned, this is a non-story and I don’t care. The press can keep pushing it on to their front pages because they are in “bring down Hillary” mode now.

  120. “I think the current head-wind is caused by MSM. They’re fooling democrats into thinking next year’s election is just a cakewalk, and any democrat can win. This is competely bullshit …”


  121. terrondt: i would suggest the nutkooks stay away from window ledges high up.

    LOL. terrondt, you’re a champ. I remember seeing you on the campaign blog long before I found this site.

  122. lol, thanks hillarylandrocks. my wife thinks im a crazed hillfan.LOL. she afraid i might leave her for hill, just kidding.

  123. terrondt,

    i understand the HOPE, in obama’s hope…
    and seriously, i think oprah has the whole hope in obama dream.

    what i think it comes down to, is what the african american man who spoke at the end of howard finemans article said.
    he said ‘ they were having a hard time getting over the clintons,
    he said they came to see if they should…’

    i thought it was a beautiful statement.
    and thats what we are all going to find out, what wins out in the hearts of the people.

  124. I agree with kostner that a lot of democrats are ignorant in thinking any democrat can beat any republican. Republicans have strong candidates in Huckabee and McCain. They also forget about the republican noise machine that will start pounding the eventual nominee.

  125. united 12, that is what baffles me about obama and axelrod whom helped hillary get elected to the senate in 2000. if it were not for bill there would be NO dem in the white house in the last 27 years!!! and what about these so called past supporters of bill that endorsed obama this time around personally attacking hillary? when most of these consultants were made famous by bill clinton in his 2 runs, now turning thier backs on hillary now.

  126. this makes me sick…

    Those Darned Christianists [Byron York]

    From Ben Smith’s Politico report on the Oprah-Obama rally in Columbia, S.C. today:

    “I give all praise and honor to God,” Obama began. “Look at the day the Lord has made.”

    Smith reports that Winfrey began her remarks:

    “It’s amazing grace that brought me here.”

  127. i think i mentioned this before kostner, there are people that REALLY thinks barack hussien obama is the 2nd coming of christ. oh well.

  128. terrondt,

    to be honest, i seriously believe that obama was coached into running by this other wing of the democratic party…
    really i think he was given so much hype about it being his time, that he got pushed into running now.

    and i think this other wing of the party, wants to win so bad, and they decided to groom the perfect candidate for the u tube generation, not quite a howard dean, not quite a bill clinton, but an obama…

    i dont think any of them particularly cared for hillary, and i think they were hoping to build the perfect anti-war, anti-bush candidate…
    you know like the manchurian candidate or something… lol

  129. has anybody noticed that cspan have not covered hillary for weeks? or maybe i missed a event other than the jackson dinner 3 weeks ago? i have to check cspan.org.

  130. Bad weather on January 3rd will mean a problem for Obama’s buses. This will also mean low turnout all over, which may benefit Dodd of all people w/ the firefighters. They go out on blizzards and help clear roads and can easily transport. It may make Iowa less important and throw more weight to New Hampshire. Good weather means higher turnout, and we are gaining momentum here slowly. I don’t know what I want right now. The emails are interesting. I know someone who is very good friends with someone directly involved. It is not anything major, and usually people delete these forwarded messages right away, just a few dumbos with Dodd supporters on their email listserves.

  131. united 12, i did believe he intended not to run this year but so many people were pushing him, the media, hillary haters in both parties, naderites,netroots aka nutkooks and pinos.

  132. hillfans, i have to run to work now but for obama to win the nomination it would be one of the biggest political upsets in history. this includes harry truman’s win in 1948. so if anything obama has to defy history to take this thing. later hillfans.

  133. fineman:
    >>>Whether by instinct or design, the thin-as-a-rail, youthful looking Obama looked somehow innocent as he appeared—a man-child in this setting, doted over and presented by two powerful, commanding women (his wife and his endorser).>>>

    i read some comments on gossip blogs and there’s more than a few with the gist.. he’s not experienced, qualified enough, why can’t he win the election on his own.

  134. another_reader — at this point, I find all comments on blogs suspect. I think it’s just warring internet response teams.

  135. Why should union leader care? Since they endorsed McCain shouldn’t they be praising Hillary if they think Obama is more electable than her? Why are they trashing her if they think she is unelectable, especially given that they endorsed John McCain.

    More politics from conservative media.

  136. Switch gear a bit. Romney is just weird, his flip-flop is simply astonishing. It looks like he and his team have determined Iowa is simply not winnable, and he’s ready to cut the loss… He just publically insulted Iowans in a Michicgan campaign stop… This is quite amusing…

    DETROIT, Dec. 9 (UPI) — Republican presidential contender Mitt Romney said in Michigan that GOP rival Mike Huckabee is unlikely to win the Republican nod for president.

    “(There has) not been much time to take a look at his policies and his record,” Romney said in Sunday’s Detroit News. “He’s got good support in Iowa. My guess is by the time Michigan comes around, people will have taken a very close look at his policies and record, and I don’t believe it’s likely that he’ll be the nominee.”

    Romney’s comments come as several national polls show former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee emerging from the second tier of candidates to contend with long-time front-runner Romney.

    Romney attacked Huckabee’s proposed “Fair Tax” program that would replace federal income tax with a national sales tax.

    “Something like the Fair Tax is considered to be of great interest in Iowa,” Romney said. “It would obviously be seen very differently in a state like Michigan, where suddenly every new car would cost 30 percent more. Michiganders would obviously have a different perspective on that.”

    The Michigan economy is one of the worst in the nation, with unemployment rates nearly twice that of the national average.

  137. Anyone know what Hillary’s doing Monday? I know Bill’s in Iowa the next two days. Be sure to give us a first-hand report, celiff! 🙂

  138. I hate these rogue volunteers. The one thing you always keep in mind is that you represent the campaign – paid or not!

    When I’m doing phone banking or precinct walking, I’m on my best behavior. I knock on doors where the first thing out of the person’s (usually a female) mouth is: “I’m not voting for THAT woman!” I smile and engage her. I ask her what her top 3 issues are. She looks down at my “Hillary for President” T-shirt and delves into issues that matter to her (it’s usually about abortion). She’s disarmed because she probably expected me to say, “Well, have a nice day then. Goodbye!”

    So close to the Caucus. We can’t afford these silly fodders.

  139. So, did Obama make any statement about the non union venue in New Hampshire? I thought he was going to say something?

  140. ra1029, Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski once had a back-and-forth about how the GOP really is afraid of Hillary. Mika was afraid that the GOP had more ammunition against Hillary than Obama. Joe was dead-serious when he said that he, as a Republican, knows that in the GOP circle, Hillary is the tough one to beat. I know there’s a YouTube of the exchange. I remember Taylor Marsh posting about it.

    My point is, the UnionLeader wants the Dems to nominate Obama. So they have to bash Hillary.

  141. It’s more than that. They don’t want her to be President. She is the extreme symbol that they didn;t win the culture wars. You have to remember Pat Buchanon once called Hillary a “radical feminist”. They’ve been fearing her running for president since she first hit the trail. A woman in charge changes everything for these guys.

  142. Celebrity endorsements have been always been common. So have celebrity fundraisers. Celebrities have the same right as any other American citizen to show support for the candidate of their choice. Thats democracy.

    But when a celebrity embeds herself in a campaign, and uses her celebrity status to exert undue influence in each of the early states, then we have entered a whole new dimension. The electorate must then decide through their vote whether they want to cede that last vestige of their own power and live with the consequences of that decision.

    We know from experience that celebrities live in a very different world from the rest of us. We know that the criminal justice system does not apply equally to them. And we know the media treats them as demi-gods. If you doubt that, then watch for the incessant obequious grin on the reporter’s face in the next celebrity interview. It is a form of idolatry.

    In this case, voters must decide whether they will defer to a particular celebrity, i.e. Oprah or make their own decision on who to vote for. In doing so they should consider the fact that the issue is fundamentally different than the ones she usually advises them on, that she has no demonstrable expertise in political matters, and she was wrong when it came to George W. Bush. They should realize the inescapable fact that she is a celebrity with an opinion who is determined to influence them in an unpredented way.

    But there is one big catch in all this. What if voters do defer to Oprah and vote for Obama? What are the implications? In the world of politics nothing occurs in a vaccuum. Sure as the earth turns, if this strategy proves successful then other candidates will adopt it as well, in which case candidates and issues will become less important than the star power of their surrogates.

    Think for a moment of what that would be like. Pink slips to pundit we dont need you anymore we have Oprah and she tells us everything to do in our lives. The electorate and the political parties could stand down. And we would no longer have to worry about an imperial presidency, we would have something far better an imperial kingmaker. Dick Cheney would be envious. Seriously, however . . .

    We call ourselves a democracy, but we are really a republic. By conscious design, there are few opportunities for the public to exercise meaningful choices. The right to vote on the candidates based on our own judgment, and the right to serve on juries are two places where the high and mighty must listen to the people. If celebrities are allowed to use undue influence to decide elections, then those rights will die a quiet death. For some voters that may be reason enough to reject Obama.

  143. You guys this email thing is bogus. I would be money volunteers from all the camps have forwarded crappy emails to their friends. Iowa is being inundated with this stuff, and I’ve read the emails about Hillary are much worse. I think this is a ploy to somehow make Hillary look responsible.

  144. i will say this-the blogs the past 2 days are really sour on barack. its everywhere. often this kind of uproar gets into msm. cnn reads this stuff everyday band reports on it.

  145. I mean, think about it, why would Dodd do this to Hillary? Why not just privately contact her campaign and let her know what is going on so she can nip it in the bud? That’s how a reponsible, honest person would respond. It must not be going so great for Obama. This is clearing making much ado about something Hillary has little control over, which I am sure happens in all camps.

  146. oh, of course the email thing is bogus. in fact.. I think it’s kind of stupid if the obama campaign wants to make a big deal out of this because the more the smear gets out, the more people will actually hear about it, which can’t help him (even though it is false).

    i think they are going on the assumption that most people will immediately respond by getting upset over the (false) premise that the clinton campaign instigated this. but unfortunately, i think many people might respond by immediately thinking this smear of obama confirms rumors they have already heard about him.

    the email has been making the rounds for a couple years now, it seems that a smart campaign strategy would have been for obama’s team to go more in depth about telling his personal story, or at least doing something to push back against this before it got out of hand. because the GOP will swift boat him using this false story.

  147. if you want to see some of the anti hillary emails –



    they are all pretty much stupid jokes, or old stories that nobody takes seriously. the right wing already threw all the dirt they have on her.

  148. i don’t know why dodd would get involved, that was weird.

    and i feel bad for those people, actually. they are volunteers. they may have thought it was true, they are not researchers (i don’t know how inflammatory the email was). i think it’s turning an ugly page in the process when we start investigating personal email use by volunteers and putting their names in national wire stories.

  149. guys

    in regards to what I have been trying to alert everyone to (the Obama bussing and Illinoisans in Iowa crap…) it is finally gaining some momentum I think.

    i am in contact with a woman from the communications department in the Hillary Campaign who is asking whether I would tell my story to a reporter.

    The question is…should I?

    I really want to remain anonymous and my main goal in doing this was to alert the Hillary Campaign to dirty tricks.

  150. would they still report on the issue though? i don’t want my rather lack of a backbone to prevent the truth from spreading.

  151. I will be near the rope line tomorrow night. Gonna get my copy of Giving signed. Should be a wonderful night. BTW, the oprah event; I have heard nothing of it here in IC so I am not worried about it. SHe has a small following in Iowa, unlike SC or in bigger states. It didn’t even sell out here.

  152. MJS,

    My advice is to give honest recount of what’s been happening. Do NOT exaggerate, just facts. If your facts are just a little bit off, Obama and his national press sycophant will blame this on Clinton of ‘planting’ stories…

    Be very honest on the facts…

  153. mjs,

    another suggestion is to ask reporters to investigate this story thoroughly. If they can set up some scenes and collect evidence such as phone conversation/paper trail etc, that will be wonderful, wonderful..

  154. just stick to the facts of what you personally saw and you will be fine i think! be as detailed as possible but just facts. it is up to the reporter to look into the story and verify before they publish anything.

  155. A couple observations.

    1. Howard Fineman stated that there were 20,000 in S.C. If my memory serves, the venue was moved from 18,000 capacity to the 80,000 capacity stadium. Much ado about nothing.

    The Fineman article also points out something I mentioned earlier this weekend and that is folks turned out to see the OO Show, not BHO’s political (sales pitch) speech. Yes, Oafrah was a draw, but it took a bunch of hip hop performers doing a concert and a full-blown extravaganza to attract 20,000 to the 80,000 capacity venue. Not even FREE tickets did what BHO’s folks had hoped for … turning folks away from a full-capacity stadium.

    Although I refuse to see photos or media footage on the 3-state tour, I suspect the media did not pan the 3/4 empty S.C. stadium.

    I saw it mentioned that the majority of those attending in S.C. were black. Well, a quick demographic check (2005) shows S.C.’s population of 4.3 million people is 29.2% black and 68.4% white; 24.1% under age 18, 12.6% age 65 and over, and females at 51.3%.

    Extrapolate from this that half the voters in S.C. are predominantly white women. The majority of those over 65 will be women. All these women (hahaha) are mothers to 25% of the population who are not eligible to vote.

    Now add into the mix that all the folks attending in S.C. would not have been S.C. voters, which I mentioned earlier this weekend, since many may well have traveled from out of state.

    I’d just conclude that a bunch of black folks came to a concert with Oafrah as m.c. and had to sit through a long-winded boring political speech by BHO as a penalty.

    Short of another mall shooting, major fire, traffic accident or other event to snag the news cycle, what else did MSM have to report on?

    2. Keep in mind, the majority of folks are not political junkies like most of us are and are definitely not following the campaign moment-by-moment, poll-by-poll like we are.

    Most are not combing through every news article either in print or online. Most are not glued to every blog posting and reading through the comments looking for a reason to vote BHO rather than Hillary.

    Like one woman told me today on the phone, she is working two jobs and doesn’t have any idea who is even running for office or who she might vote for in the primary. Another man, who will vote for Hillary, told me he is a single dad who can barely pay for more than his mortgage and electricity, uses twigs to fuel his woodstove, lives on a dead-end road and when there’s a snowstorm, he can’t get out to go to work since he only has one set of rims and can’t put his snow tires on his car. He cannot afford cable tv to listen to all the pundits. There are so many more people like these just trying to hold it together than those who are glued to every political maneuver. We forget this.

    3. Perhaps you did not notice, but the comments on the Manchester Union Leader articles were not made by folks in N.H. but, rather, from around the country. Take the reaction to the pro-BHO piece with a shaker of salt.

    4. The folks I talked with today while making calls about Hillary’s health care plan were overwhelmingly voting for Hillary. Although, three weekends before Christmas, most were not at home, only one person emphatically was not a Hillary supporter and she simply hung up on me, which is something that is happening less often than it was earlier this fall.

    5. Another campaign worker was calling Hillary supporters to get their permission to use their names in a print media ad. There is a lot of support for Hillary here in N.H.

  156. Also forgot to mention in my demographics on S.C. This is a Ripublican state. The governor, lt gov, sec state, atty gen, 2 Sens, 4 out of 6 Reps are all Republican.

    This is a very conservative state, with Bob Jones University, The Citadel, and Clemson, as well as 7 AA colleges and universities (with students obviously attending from out of state).

  157. And, as I said, a very poor state, with per capita income $24,000.

    Those folks came to see the Opravaganza. The state will vote Ripublican in the end. The demographics are not slanted in BHO’s favor.

  158. Dr. Earl Ofari Hutchinson lays out a chllanege on HuffPo…..


    A Challenge to Hillary Bashers: Tell Me Exactly Why You Hate Hillary?
    Posted December 9, 2007 | 10:31 AM (EST)

    The occasion was a symposium on the presidential candidates held by the Los Angeles Urban Policy Roundtable which sponsors a weekly public policy discussion series in Los Angeles. Midway through a heated discussion over the relative merits of Democratic presidential contenders Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, a member of the audience let loose with an impassioned I-can’t-stand-Hillary blast and punctuated it with the quip, I’d vote for anybody but her. I asked him a simple question: Why do you hate Hillary?

    He sat with his mouth wide open and a perplexed glaze on his face, no sound issued from him. His mute response was no surprise. My question to him is the same question to the legions that slam Hillary: tell me specifically what terrible thing she’s done that stirs such froth around your mouth. Skip the personal attacks, vitriol, innuendos, slurs, and don’t repeat hearsay, gossip, or what you heard someone say about Clinton, and that includes Bill. Give me one tangible thing that she has done to piss you off so much that you are proud to be a charter member of the anybody-but-Hillary club. Name one tangible thing?

    I asked the man in audience to tell me one thing that she’s done politically or even personally that ticked him off, so that without batting an eye he’d say that the thought of her winning sends him into a paroxysm of rage. The question continued to dangle for a long and pregnant moment with no response.

    He, of course, is no different than the swarm of other Hillary-bashers. The visceral dislike, even loathing of her, is so deep and broad that it welds together a strange mesh of the usual suspect Hillary haters from the Christian fundamentalists, ultra-right Republicans and conservative talking heads, through a bevy of her former Hollywood pals and Bill Clinton campaign bankrollers, all the way to self-styled progressives and ultra radicals. They have absolutely nothing in common other than the ecstasy they get from pounding Hillary for her alleged political and personal sins.

    But what are they? And what did she do that has earned her the label of everything from the devil incarnate (the late Jerry Falwell) on the right to branding her a shill for fat cat lobbyists and corporations on the left. That’s just cheap shot name calling, trashing, and vilification from the rank and file. But the press has also gleefully jumped in on the Clinton beat down. It spins, twists, massages in reverse, and blows to smithereens any and every piece of nasty Clinton gossip or dig.

    I asked the Hillary hater a third time to name one specific thing that she’s done to earn his obsessive enmity. The silent Hillary denouncer after some fishing, fumbling and stalling, said that she cheer led Bush on the Iraq war when she voted to authorize it. OK. But so did her Democratic presidential rival John Edwards, and though Obama says that he wouldn’t have voted for it if he had been in the Senate then. However, in two subsequent votes he backed spending measures that continued war funding. If the other top gun Democratic presidential contender Bill Richardson had been in the Senate he almost certainly would have backed war authorization.

    In fact, the Congressional Hispanic Caucus and the Congressional Black Caucus was sharply divided over support of the original Iraq war resolution in 2002 that gave Bush authority to wage war. Edwards later apologized for backing the resolution. Obama joined with 13 other Democratic Senators to oppose the crucial big money Iraq war appropriations bill in May. One of the other thirteen senators was Clinton. She is no different than other Democrats that have cut and run from Bush’s war. They all recanted when public opinion turned sour on the war and Bush and it suddenly became politically fashionable and popular to do so.

    The Iraq war support certainly doesn’t explain the vehemence of the Hillary targeting. Her centrist, cautious, and sometimes fuzzy stance on health care, education, taxes, and immigration are legitimate issues to dissect, debate, and criticize. But these are issues that all of the contenders can and should be held to the fire on. They are fair game for that. But intense political debate and disagreement on the crucial public policy issues in and of themselves is simply not enough to stoke visceral dislike of a candidate, let alone explain the intense hate for Hillary.

    My challenge then to all Hillary bashers is the same as it was to the guy at the Urban Policy Roundtable in Los Angeles: tell me exactly why you hate her so much?

    Earl Ofari Hutchinson is an author and political analyst. His new book is The Latino Challenge to Black America: Towards a Conversation between African-Americans and Hispanics (Middle Passage Press) hutchinsonreport@aol

  159. Boston Globe says that there were “nearly 30,000” present in S.C. That’s still not 80,000. The stadium was still nearly 2/3 empty. BHO’s campaign said “more than 29,000” attended.

    “A recent AP-Pew Research poll has Senator Hillary Clinton of New York leading in South Carolina with 45 percent of likely Democratic primary voters, followed by Obama’s 31 percent. The two candidates break even on the black vote here.”

    Chi Sun-Times says an estimated 29,000 attended.

    “… many of whom were put to work in Barack Obama’s last push to close in on Hillary Rodham Clinton before South Carolina’s Jan. 26 primary.

    “While the event was free and open to the public, every person who showed up was asked to fill out a card that recorded whether that person was a volunteer, a student or undecided.

    “Attendees were also given the option to pledge to vote for Obama in the state primary, while volunteers stationed outside the stadium helped people identify the glitches that could bar them from voting. ”

    In separate articles on N.H., the AP reported that “more than 8,000” and “about 8,500 people” turned out. Lynn Sweet also said about 8,500.

    Remember, the venue was changed to the non-union Verizon to accommodate 12,000 folks. That means that at least 30% of the seats were empty.

    None of the articles gave much space to the N.H. event and were very brief, even Sweet’s.

    Reportedly, the two Iowa rallies drew about 33,000. My quick math shows that all together the number of folks attending would not have filled the S.C. stadium. A bit underwhelming, when you consider that the majority of those attending were there to see Oafrah.

  160. Again, reading through news releases, came across an AP story posted in the Cape Cod Times that mentions someone who traveled 120 miles to Manchester, N.H., from Bennington, Vt. Nice, but not a primary voter.

    Also just read ChiTrib’s Swamp and it stated that the majority of the crowd in S.C. were AA. However, all the media pics I’ve seen online so far show mostly white faces near the podium. Curious.

  161. I was a bit taken aback by silly Oprah’s political attack on Hillary. I thought to myself – the nerve! I just felt like going out there and throwing a dozen of eggs on her face. Also, felt like slapping her on the face and shaking her to wake up. I mean, she isn’t the best on on judgement. She was all for war, she was duped by James Frey, she is now being duped by Omabi! I found her terribly irritating!! She is not a political person, she doesn’t know a crap about politics! Just go back to giving yoru favorite things Oprah!! Remember, United States Presidency is not one of your favorite things to give away to your favorite senator!!!

  162. This from the right wing rag Wash Times:

    But the “Oprah-Obama” duo didn’t need to do much convincing. Finding undecided voters was difficult for reporters before the rally and nearly impossible afterward.

    Translation: In S.C., the OO Show was pretty much preaching to the choir. Believers came to see, same believers left after the show. I’d not say that BHO picked up too many new voters. Bad for him, good for Hillary.

    However, if anyone is looking for more proof that the Ripublicans are fully endorsing BHO as the Dem candidate, this article will help to convince you. It’s another right wing love piece.


    Hint: admin, this is a good topic for another post. How the right is endorsing BHO’s nomination.

  163. “Smith, 39, recently claimed that he also has his eye on the White House. He said: “I’m going to be President of the United States.

    “I always wanted to be the first black president, but Barack stole my idea. “That’s OK with me. Barack can go first and then I’ll take my turn.”

  164. Ben Smith has a pic up of the S.C. “crowd”. Pic definitely does not represent the S.C. population. Just like in N.H., there were a lot of non-natives present .. Atlanta, FL, etc. Just what % were actually voters and which not is the real question.


  165. Ana Marie Cox, TIME, from N.H. rally:

    Pundits have focused on whether or not Oprah’s presence on the campaign trail will bring Obama more voters, but the four rallies Opr-ama did over the weekend were not intended to change people’s minds. They were about creating the kind of audacious political theater that makes supporters believe they’re going to win, and casual observers into interested ones. Indeed, the Obama campaign used the rallies less as an outreach program than as a reward system, distributing tickets to volunteers and those who had pledged to volunteer with higher priority than the general public. And those in attendance waved their appreciation.


    According to the stats, 4,250 tickets went to BHO volunteers, etc., which cuts into the numbers again.


    I also suspect somebody is cooking the books on the numbers. The latter article says that BHO signed up 2300 new supporters last week in N.H. How many canvassers/phone callers were in N.H. to do that? And where in the world did they find that many new folks to sign up? Sounds more like they were signing up for raffle tickets.

  166. BlueHampshire post on someone who was there:

    For some reason, I have a disproportionately large pet peeve about campaign-produced attendance estimates. I’ll probably get in trouble for saying this (just like the last time I was at an Obama event in Laconia, or the time before when I was at a Clinton event in Nashua when I spoke truth to power) but I can’t honestly believe there were more than 5500 people there. 5600 if you count press. Maybe even 5700.

    Still the biggest NH event in history, I’m sure, but the rectangular sections were 20 wide and 14 tall (280) and there were ten of those full. The triangular sections held about 100, and there were maybe ten of those. Then you had the luxury boxes, the ground floor where Nordstrom was, and the nosebleeds that were sporadically merely dabbled with people.

    I used to teach math to 6th graders so I have spent a lot of time with area and perimeter. I also know how to count and estimate pretty well (once again, key components of the curriculum). Please, campaigns, stop overestimating!

    According to the VZW Arena website “end stage concerts hold about 10,050.” I would liken this to an end stage concert, and the place was somewhere between one half and two thirds full. Not 85%.

    I want to reiterate that this has nothing to do with the Obama camp in particular. Clinton does it. They all do it. My word to the wise, whenever you hear a campaign estimate, take two thirds of it and call it Gold.

  167. I find it hard to believe that with the hundred’s if not thousands of anti-hillary email chains out there, not a single one has ever been forwarded by any staffer with a rival campaign.

    The problem is that there are just way too many folks who are looking for any excuse to “out” her; even when there is no evidence of any foul play by the campaign. An anti-Hillary story is a good story to feed the media and it ensures that it gets attention. Thats what happened with the silly “tip” thing, the “plant” story and now the email chain.

    When Obama’s staffers want to know when the media is going to cover Bill’s sex life, there is no outrage. But its ok as long as its Hillary you are attacking.

    Even the kindergarten nonsense – Hillary does not care if the first word that Obama spoke was “president”. The whole purpose of mentioning that kindergarten essay was to highlight the fact that though he attacks her of long standing ambitions by using republican talking points, he himself was charting a run, going back to the time he entered the senate, even before he entered the senate, even while he was a “commmunity organizer”, back to his college days, and for crying out loud for whatever it is worth, even when he was in kindergarten. But even then, its Hillary who gets the rap because the media does NOT report on the gist of the story – that BO always had ambitions and he stills attacks her.

    The media knows that Obama is serving a useful purpose – to try to bring down Hillary as much as he can. That is why they will mollycoddle him to the hilt. They are fighting Hillary by proxy.

  168. Agreed, dt. It’s quite obvious that the stories all fit together as a coordinated effort to make Hillary look mean. I’ve seen this before. I don’t think it will work, though.

  169. MJS, I agree with whomever said you need to discuss this with your parents. Frankly, if you are a minor, I think you’ve done enough. But, talko your parents before you proceed.

  170. They are up a few. I just forgot he might be a minor. And, I think it important he talk to his parents before talking to anyone in the media.

  171. The WaPo reported yesterday that Hillary wanted to join the Marines after the Vietnam War and was rejected because she was too old, wore glasses (i.e. couldn’t see), and was a woman.


    I’m going to bold this comment: This is a huge opening for Hillary. Tell me, how many women of all ages have been told something like this? Way too many. Going to TaylorMarsh now. This drum needs to be beat loud and strong.

  172. Talking to the media is a very dangerous thing to do, as well all know too well. No matter what YOU say, it will get cut, snipped, washed and blow-dried before it meets the light of day.

  173. Today’s Rasmussen. I have also included yesterday’s numbers..

    Hillary 38 (37)
    Obama 28 (27)
    Edwards 11 (13)

    Looks like Edwards is loosing his support to Obama.

  174. MJS if it were me? I would, if I saw these things happening. I’d speak very carefully, and stick strictly to what I actually saw and heard, but I’d do it. There is not much Hillary’s campaign can do about it themselves. If they were to make a statement condemning it, it would be seen as sour grapes and accusation on their part. If the press knows, and raises the issue, then they can legitimately respond to that.

    But if, as some are indicating, you are a minor, do nothing without talking to your parents first. No way.

  175. First Read/MSNBC:

    Is it time for more vetting of Obama? No doubt the Clinton and Edwards camps hope so. Looks like some in the chattering class believe it’s coming. The Des Moines Register’s Yepsen asks: “Why is Hillary Clinton stepping up her attacks on Obama? Obama’s ahead. She needs to cut him down to size. It’s risky, because some caucus-goers don’t like tiffs. Still, she can’t just can’t sit back and do nothing.”

    “Despite the risks, it’s important for Democrats to understand the strengths and weaknesses of each candidate. Clinton’s negatives are well known, Obama’s less so. Any shortcomings, inconsistencies or misstatements in Obama’s past will be exploited by Republicans in the fall campaign if he’s the nominee. It’s best for Democrats to vet them now.”

    Yepsen: desmoinesregister.com/apps/ [space] pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071209/OPINION01/712090324/1166

  176. B Merry:

    The press and having a critical look at Obama before the primary? Not going to happen. I can bet my house on it. There is only realistically 2 weeks (until next Friday) left before the caucus until Christmas holidays and new year interfere with the political coverage and as of today they are still gaga over Obama. Nothing will change on that front.

  177. What I don’t understand is if he’s leading in Iowa then why does everyone still just go after Hillary in the debates. Makes no sense.

  178. What I don’t understand is if he’s leading in Iowa then why does everyone still just go after Hillary in the debates. Makes no sense.

    Because democratic candidates like Chris Do(u)dd and “breck girl” are idiots who are naive enough to think that they can be the nominee, if only they bring Hillary down.

  179. mj, an easy answer as to why BHO is untouchable. This is the media primary and he’s the media candidate. The scrutiny will come only if he beats Hillary in the primaries. Don’t think for a minute that the vetting hasn’t already been done, particularly by the Rips (don’t expect the stenographer press to share what they might have), but they’re not going to waste any ammunition on the primaries as long as they have Hillary as a target.

  180. Most importantly, the Rips don’t want Hillary for the Dem candidate, they want BHO. To attack him now would be against the current strategy. As long as the Rips have BHO and JRE et al. to do the heavy lifting, they don’t have to exert a single muscle. If Hillary loses, then the Dems will have none other than BHO and JRE to blame for losing the whole shooting match and the Rips win … again.

  181. I’m talking about the other candidates not the media. And, for the record, I don’t care what would happen to Obama were he the nominee, though ofcourse I would vote for any Dem. I just want Hillary to be the next president. It’s nothing to do with Obama and his weaknesses as a GE candidate. But, in terms of the other candidates, not the media, they gain nothing by going after Hillary. They only help Obama. Here’s my theory. These Dodd/Edwards/Biden/Richardson voters don’t support Obama and these guys want to make sure their voters don’t go into Hill’s camp.

  182. One I thing we need to know is that there is no point in complaining about the media and asking them to cover it fairly. It is not going to happen. There is only two weeks left before holiday sprit takes over political coverage. Hillary’s camp I am sure is working hard on how to win this thing inspite of the media coverage, and not because of it like Obama. All the foot soldiers (volutneers) in places like Iowa, NH, NV, SC, and CA are all contributing to her effort to reach as many people as they can and assist them in taking a second look at Hillary, the person, not the Hillary that they hear about from pundits on TV or press.

  183. these guys want to make sure their voters don’t go into Hill’s camp.

    May be, but how dim witted must Dodd really be to still think that he has more than 0.00001% chance to win this thing. I have to start questioning terrondt how they ever elected such dim-witted guy to the senate. 🙂

  184. ra1029, I agree. My point was the fact that these guys whose only prayer is Iowa still go after Hillary only tells me there is more going on here than meets the eye. In other words, it tells me their voters are more likely to go Hillary than Obama at the end of the day.

  185. mj,

    I understand your point. I also wondered about the stupidity of Edwards to treat as if Obama does not exist. However, I have given up on questioning their naivette because I never heard a logical explanation of why it is politically helpful to him to only go after Hillary. These guys are not nearly as smart as we give them credit for.

  186. I agree; these guys are not smart! and they wat us to elect them as their president! dodd is almost as fake as edwards. To think, one time I thought he had something!

    Kucinich/biden are the best guys in the bunch.

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