Heartland and Brown and Black Fora

Update: This was NOT a forum, it was a badly disguised Obama rally. Fortunately, as we stated below, Big Media is waking up to the Chicago takeover of the Iowa caucuses. Today’s forum makes it very very obvious that Obama will simply outsource the Iowa caucuses to his Chicago mudslingers. The Chicago Tribune and more importantly the Des Moines Register have stories on this today. [One more cheer to Celiff, an Iowa college student who runs College Democrats at the University he attends, for raising the alarm on this – check out the links below] Politico now has a story too:

The campaign of Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) is drawing some local skepticism for a drive to recruit non-Iowans to caucus at their Iowa colleges.

“If you are not from Iowa, you can come back for the Iowa caucus and caucus in your college neighborhood,” says a four-page “Students for Barack Obama” brochure provided to Politico.

David Yepsen of the Des Moines Register, the state’s leading political commentator, wrote in a blog post called “The Illinois Caucus” that the effort to increase participation by out-of-staters “risks offending long-time Iowa residents.”

“Given that lots of students in Iowa’s colleges and universities are from Obama’s neighboring home state of Illinois, the effort could net him thousands of additional votes on caucus night,” Yespen wrote.

The Obama campaign contends that it’s doing nothing unusual — that Iowa college students have long caucused near their colleges. And a separate Reigster news article quoted Iowa Secretary of State Michael Mauro as saying of the Obama instructions: “I think it’s playing within the rules.”

A Hillary Rodham Clinton campaign official said: “We are not courting out-of-staters. The Iowa caucus ought to be for Iowans.”

Chris Dodd for President Iowa State Director Julie Andreeff Jensen said in a statement on Saturday:

“I was deeply disappointed to read today about the Obama campaign’s attempt to recruit thousands of out-of-state residents to come to Iowa for the caucuses. … ‘New Politics’ shouldn’t be about scheming to evade either the spirit or the letter of the rules that guide the process. That may be the way politics is played in Chicago, but not in Iowa.”

The instruction is part of an Obama campaign effort to counteract a potentially serious blow to youth support for his campaign: The Jan. 3 caucus date means colleges will still be on holiday break.

Many Democrats theorize that college students are more likely to vote heavily for Obama if they go as organized college groups rather than hit or miss as individuals, scattered at their folks’ caucuses all over Iowa.

“If you are from Iowa,” the brochure says, “you will probably be home for the caucus and will caucus in your hometown.” The brochure gives instructions about where to call or go online for information about where to caucus.

Yepsen wrote that the out-of-state college students’ participation would be legal, but said he isn’t certain “whether it’s fair, or politically smart.”

No presidential campaign in memory has ever made such a large, open attempt to encourage students from out of state, many of whom pay out-of-state tuition, to participate in the caucuses.,” he said. “No other campaign appears to be doing it in this campaign cycle.”

The student section of BarackObama.com has a “Rock the Caucus” section designed to make it as easy as possible for collegiate supporters of Obama to turn out.

“Join the Facebook group to learn more,” the site says. “If you are 17 years old — you can still caucus! Just as long as you are 18 by Nov. 4, 2008. You do not have to register beforehand — just show up at the caucus. … We at the Obama campaign have plenty of resources for students out, especially if it is your first time caucusing!”

The question of who can participate was already sticky. In early November, Dodd’s campaign staff asked the campaigns to pledge that their out-of-state staff and volunteers would not attempt to caucus. Most of the campaigns signed the pledge.

The Clinton official said: “We have a policy that if you move to Iowa for the express purpose of working on the campaign, you can not caucus.”

——————————————
We will be covering both of today’s candidate fora. The Heatland Presidential Forum starts at 3:00. Watch on the internet HERE. Hillary is in New Hampshire but will participate in the Heartland Forum by telephone.

Also:

We, thanks to Celiff, were the first to raise the alarm. It’s good to see that Big Media is finally paying attention. The Des Moines Register writes:

That’s fine but these are the Iowa caucuses. Asking people who are “not from Iowa” to participate in them changes the nature of the event.

And trying to pack the caucuses with people from Illinois might taint Obama’s showing. Polls show Obama is in a close race with Hillary Clinton and John Edwards. Recent surveys show him with a lead of a few points. If he wins the Iowa caucuses with Illinois votes, his victory would be discounted by his opponents and media people.

The issue of out-of-state residents caucusing in Iowa came up recently when one of the candidates, Chris Dodd, urged his rivals to promise not to encourage their staffers working in Iowa to register as voters so they could participate in the caucuses here. Most of them agreed, including Obama’s campaign. (And, frankly, a few hundred staffers wouldn’t have much of an impact on the outcome anyway. Besides, most of those staffers will be working on caucus night and wouldn’t have time to participate.)

But turning out-of-state college students into Iowa voters is a different, larger, matter. Thousands of votes are involved and it risks offending long-time Iowa residents.

But, then, they do politics a little differently in Illinois than they do in Iowa.

The Chicago Tribune wrote:

“”I was deeply disappointed to read today about the Obama campaign’s attempt to recruit thousands of out-of-state residents to come to Iowa for the caucuses,” Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut said in a statement. “’New Politics’ shouldn’t be about scheming to evade either the spirit or the letter of the rules that guide the process. That may be the way politics is played in Chicago, but not in Iowa.”

______________________________________-

Already the stupidity starts.  Why are Democrats buying into Ripublican language tactics by using the word “Democrat” instead of “Democratic”?  This is a Democratic forum, not a Democrat forum. 

——————————-

Kathy Hughes will moderate.  Each candidate gets 20 minutes. 

——————————-

John Edwards.

Barb Kalbach:  Would you be willing to make the hard decisions on community values? [Note: this is a serious question??]

Edwards: They have built a wall around Washington.  We are going to tear that wall down.   We have 200,000 veterans homeless.  Are we going to do better?  I am in this fight with you. 

Community leader: (Virgene Martin) Corporate farms, open livestock lots question.  The rights of the corporation went over the rights of the people. 

Community leader Inez Killingsworth:  Corporations have little respect for the common good.  Predatory lenders.  Corporations are too powerful and unaccountable.  Do you agree? 

Edwards: Yes I agree.  This is why I am running for president.  Family farms are being driven out of business.  Big corporations are destroying our land and environment.  How long are we going to let these people run America.  I spent 20 years fighting against big corporations in court.  I will pass an anti-predatory lending law.

Community organizer Kurt Kelsey: Corporate farms.  If elected how would you protect family farms, the environment, our communities?

Edwards: We need a president who will stand up to the corporations.  Big corporations and the wealthy run the country.  I will enforce the laws.  I will use the Justice Department to stop corporations from vertically integrating.  We have an epic fight on our hands. 

————

Community organizer Ahmed Rehab:  Discrimination.  Civil rights movement is not over, will you fight with us?

Community organizer Erica Fernandez: Don’t communities like mine deserve a clean environment?  What will you do to make your vision a reality?

Edwards: Environmental justice is an important issue.  The poor and minorities are the most likely to be effected by these issues.  I grew up in the segregated south.  My father was a mill worker.  Stop racial profiling.  I will close Guantanamo.  Mo more secret prisons, illegal spying, renditions.  No torture is permissible. 

Community organizer Malik Whitaker:  What would you do to end racial profiling and bring equal justice to all?

Edwards: End racial profiling.  End mandatory sentencing.  We can’t build enough prisons.  The problem is one of fairness, jobs, raising the minimum wage, dispartity between power cocaine and crack.  When someone goes to prison we need to help them with drug and alcohol rehabilitation and job training.  It is America’s moral obligation. 

Final question: Would you meet in the first 100 days with a leader of the Campaign for Community Values?

Edwards: Yes, in the first week.  I believe deeply in our moral responsibility.  The question is will we leave America and the world better than we found it. 

———————–

Dennis Kucinich next, but not there yet.  He finally shows up. 

Barb Kalbach:  As president would you make the hard decisions that live up to community values?

Kucinich: I put my career on the line when I was Mayor of Cleveland to fight corporations.  I am the only one for a not-for-profit healthcare system.  Single payer.  Some say this is impossible.  47 million Americans have no healthcare.  I am for Medicare for all.  That’s just one example of why I am ready to be president.

Community leader Irlanda Helgen: Families come to this country looking for a better life.  Instead they find the government terrorizing them. 

Community leader Marvie Chapman: I make $9 dollars a year after working there for many years. 

Kucinich: (shows his Lady of Guadalupe wristwatch).  There are no illegal humans.  We need to cancel NAFTA and get out of the WTO.  We need a path to legalization.  The Dream Act must be passed.  We are one.  We need a “living wage” not a minimum wage.  Healthcare for all.  Jobs for all. 

Community leader Inhe Choi: We are all connected.  We need to fix the system so workers are treated fairly.  Enforcement of laws is not enough.  What else would you do to help the right to organize and a living wage?

Kucinich:   Full employment economy.  Not-for-profit healthcare.  College for all.  Renegotiate all treaty to reflect workers rights.  Right to strike.  Right to secure retirement.  Protect the environment.  I will stand for the right to a decent wage. 

Community leader Vern Tigges:  Another hog farm question. 

Community organizer Deborah Kathleen Thomas: Gas companies question.  Do you agree the politics of these companies are a threat to our democracy?

Kucinich: Mining interests are causing a great deal of pollution.  Why do we give these companies the right to drill in federal lands?  We need to move our economy away from carbon fuels.  Encourage public transit.  Stop subsidizing oil, coal, nuclear.  Create jobs by lowering our carbon footprint. 

Community organizer Judy Lonning: Big corporations are stealing our democracy.  Public financing of elections. 

Kucinich: Overturn Buckley v. Valeo.  We are in Iraq for oil.  We need a president who is not tied to those interests. v We need to reclaim the Constitution.  The Vice-President should be impeached. 

Final question: Would you agree in first 100 days to meet with Campaign for Community Values.?

Kucinich: Yes.  You can sleep in the Lincoln bedroom.

———————————–

Hillary via satellite:  (in New Hampshire due to weather conditions; the hostage situation in NH was explained).

Barb Kalbach: Would you be willing to make the hard decisions to live up to community values.

Hillary: Yes, I will.

Community leader Patricia Divine Wilder: Health insurance coverage.  Family man dead of lung cancer at 36 years old.

Community leader Debra Greenwood:  Are we not our brothers’ keeper?  Do you believe the government needs to increase its support when the private sector fails us. 

Hillary: I am touched and moved by Patricia’s story.  15 million Americans die every year from lack of healthcare. I have been fighting for healthcare for 15 years.  I am proposing a universal healthcare plan.  If you are happy with your insurance you can keep it.  I will open up the congressional plan to all.  The congressional plan has over 200 choices.  Lower the amount to pay for healthcare.  We will also offer a public program like Medicare to compete with private insurers.  Guaranteed coverage, prevention. 

Community organizer Bret McFarlin: Your plan promises universal health care but it keeps the private insurance companies.  Why not expand the public program?

Hillary: My plan provides for a public option to compete with private insurers.  My plan also regulates the insurance companies.  I have been working on this for more than 25 years to provide healthcare to all Americans.  Expand Medicaid. 

Community organizer Mayte Rodriguez: Immigration question.  Broken system. 

Community organizer Larry Ginter: NAFTA drove down corn prices, and farmers like me out of business.  Stop treating immigrants like common criminals.  Is it time to rethink immigration and trade policies?

Hillary: Yes, we need comprehensive immigration reform.  Employers should not exploit workers.  I will work for a path to legalization. 

Community organizer Billy Lawless: Do you support Rahm Emanuel when he opposed immigration discussion? 

Hillary: I have worked and voted for comprehensive immigration reform. 

Final question: Will you meet with the Campaign for Community Values in the first 100 days?

Hillary: Of course. 

———————————

Senator Chris Dodd.

Tony Boatman:  We support community values.  Would you make the hard decisions that live up to community values?

Dodd: Yes.  I served in the Peace Corps in Hispaniola.  People want a decent living and raise their children without fear.  In ever single action I have taken has been for community values.  I passed Family Leave Act.  Let’s promote community values. 

Community organizer Tam Tran: My parents were Vietnamese “boat people”. 

Community organizer Emira Palacios: Undocumented immigrant, now a citizen. 

Dodd: Applause for these people.  I am a strong advocate of the Dream Act.  Speeches are easy.  Have you stood up and made a difference?  I have introduced private legislation to keep families together.  Immigration issue is important. 

Community organizer Veronica Dahlberg: Immigration reform question.  Children removed from parents, parents jailed, then deported.  Are you willing to reject enforcement only policies?  Legalization in the first 100 days?

Dodd: Our strength is our diversity.  I will make immigration reform a priority. 

Community organizer Cary Martin: Attorney.  [wild applause for this Chicagoan]

Community organizer Kenya Bradshaw: 27 year old with huge student loan bill.  How can we stop all the loans we have to pay.

Dodd: I fought against the Bankruptcy Bill.  I have introduced legislation to stop bankruptcy due to medical bills, and housing. 

Community organizer Matt Russell: 5th generation farmer.  We need to invest in everyone.  What will you do to reduced poverty by 50% in the next 10 years. 

Dodd: I have made that commitment all my life.  Expand the child care credit.  Earned income tax credit.  Labor standards for trade agreements. 

Final question: Will you meet in first 100 days with Campaign for Community Values?

Dodd: I will meet with you the week after the election.

——————————

Now we know this is really an Obama rally, not a forum.

Tony Boatman: We are down the wrong path.  A go it alone mentality. Will you make the hard decisions to live up to community values.

Obama: Absolutely.  I was a community organizer. 

——————–

Community organizer Dedra Lewis and Alexsiana: Sick child with eye disease.  Don’t all God’s children deserve healthcare?  [Obama is introduced to the child so he can publically hug her.  This is an Obama rally, not a real forum.]

Community organizer: Are you willing to say there is a need for more government?

Obama: Government has a role to play.  Government should not solve all the problems but to break down barriers.  Healthcare plan in my first term. 

Community organizer Reverend Katrina Foster: Is it better to expand Medicare instead of rewarding private insurers. 

Obama: My mother died of ovarian cancer.  She was reading insurance forms.  I want coverage as quickly as possible.  You can’t be excluded for preexisting conditions.  We won’t completely eliminate the private market. 

Community organizer Deborah Carr: Predatory lending. 

Community organizer Robin Ghormley: Gap between rich and poor.  73 years old.  Needs to work to make ends meet.  How can we achieve this goal?

Obama:  This is why I am running.  We lost balance in our economy.  CEOs making more money in 10 minutes than most make in a whole year.  I am not funded by special interests and lobbyists.  Restore fairness in tax system.  Roll back Bush tax cuts.  Close loopholes for tax havens.  An exemption for first $15,000.  A deduction on mortgages.  No income taxes for senior citizens. 

Community organizer Barbara Anderson:  Predatory lenders.  Moratorium on adjustable rate mortgages.  People living in cars.  Will you pressure to convert all adjustable rate mortgages to regular mortages. 

Obama: I will set it right.  We are gonna change that.  A strong committment.  The government did not regulate.  We must have a federal government that forces disclosure.  Credit card debt. 

Final question: Will you meet with Campaign for Community Values in first 100 days?

Obama: Yes.  We will meet with you to shape the agenda during the transition period.

—————–

The Obama rally is over. 

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472 thoughts on “Heartland and Brown and Black Fora

  1. thanks celiff and great job for awaring big media about this…yep okieatty…there watching us right here..i believe it..

  2. these people they should speaking about the heartland not about the rest of the country we have our own say so,if you dont live in the heartland.

  3. Hey all, I’ve just started a new job, so I haven’t had much time to be online and read the Big Pink. So I’m once again playing catch-up. 🙂 I got a text msg. yesterday from my brother about the hostage situation, and I was going crazy, I was ‘stuck’ at the theater, although it was enjoyable, I wanted to rush home!

    Anyway, I’m so relieved it all ended well. And Hillary sure looked cool calm and collected and Presidential during the first meeting with the press! And very caring, like a mother, it was good.

    I also liked what the AP wrote: “When the hostages had been released and their alleged captor arrested, a regal-looking Hillary Rodham Clinton strolled out of her Washington home, the picture of calm in the face of crisis.”

    I’m, now watching this fora online, anyone know when it’s Hillarys turn?

  4. yep..celiff.. them busing them kids in cold weather snow in the end of dec thru jan3 ,over state lines..i dont know but if something happen couldnt he be liable,or do the parents sign a waiver.

  5. celiff

    pretty-boys honey-drippy voice is over-the-top annoying..i can’t get to the mute button fast enough!

    did HRC stay behind due to the weather?

  6. why i dont like him he didn not help people in his home stateon poverty, and when he came out with kerry to run fo vp i knew right then he might be a crook,as a lawyer

  7. 🙂 knowing how much he looks at himself in the mirror, you’d think he would have learned by now NOT to squint his face the way he does.

  8. Oh man!!! she couldn’t pronounce Dennis’s name, oh boy, she certainly proved she watches and follows politics. *shakes head*

  9. i thought someone might begin with a few thoughts for the campaign workers terrorized yesterday in NH. oh well, guess it’s old news by now.

  10. You know, alcina, I was kind of surprised that they continued the dnc event yesterday. Democrats take volunteers for granted.

  11. celiff — that ice sheet you’re describing is the #1 reason I don’t want to drive to IA. I’m afraid of getting stuck in a blizzard w/ no place to stay.

  12. thats true hlr…the ice sheet thing,i wont drive in it either.they have alott of it in iowa my family tells me..

  13. You know, alcina, I was kind of surprised that they continued the dnc event yesterday.

    Nobody at the DNC cares. It was only Clinton volunteers being held hostage. For the most part, the DNC is the organized version of Daily Kos.

  14. This forum is a joke. You appeal to these people and you will never win a general election. If I was a republican, I would be taping all the promises made by democrats to these questions. There is no such thing as an illegal immigrant? Wow.

  15. LOL Dennis suddenly had a change of accent! He was on a roll there, speaking fast and sounding like one of those auctioneers….

  16. These people will never vote for Hillary. They seem to be anti-corporation, anti-trade, pro-illegal immigration etc. etc. etc. Do these guys know how many people the corporations employ in this country?It is ok to go after executive pay. But against corporations in general?

  17. I think Obama will be there, he liked to show up when he doesn’t have to share the stage with the others at the same time, as this shows how bad a debater he is.

    I’m a bit concerned about how this will run with Hillary having to call in, that woman that monitors this seemed a bit unsure, and I hope it doesn’t bring some ’embarrassing’ ‘awkward’ moments if they have some technical problems.

  18. ra1029 — I’m tired of the anti-corporate ranting.

    Now, Tysons is a foul company, no doubt. I feel for that woman from MS, but this forum is taking some of the worst examples and excesses and presenting them as the norm.

    It’s hilarious to me to have Cathy Hughes as the face of this forum — media conglomerate, much? Who does she sell advertising to?

  19. Hillary is at a real disadvantage here.

    Does this mean she won’t be at the debate this evening? This sucks.

  20. Speaking of health care, Obama should be at a real disadvantage at this forum w/ his non-universal plan, but no … it’ll be all the Chicago cheering.

  21. Hillary always has something wrong either there crying or there hostage..she is a great person with a great bame and this lady i think is so happy to talk to her and ask a question

  22. oh man, that could have been a long awkward moment, but Hillary was sweet with her line of support “Take your time” when that woman was crying.

  23. name…shes the leader of Health care they want her to talk about it..she is gonna win Iowa to many people there want the right Universal health care..she so warm even on the phone

  24. I missed the immigration question. Why was Hillary booed? And was her answer any different from the other candidates?

  25. This is really a useless forum. They want her to pass immigration reform in first 100 days? These guys are jokers. Don’t they know that Congress needs to pass it first. Looks like these guys hate her. She got the most angry questioners.

  26. ok, fine, they didn’t really like her answer about the first 100 days in office, but when it was over, and the moderator said again that thoughts and prayers are with her and her staff, and she answered with thanking them for their understanding of her not being there in person. Why did they boo then?? that’s just rude, did they not get out enough booing the first time?!

  27. me to done watching it…heard the boos…they have no respect at all his supporters…us supporters should start booing him…change things around

  28. they were divide, half booed, maybe not directly booing but very moody low disagreement, and the other half applauded lightly… rude

  29. yes i caught the forum-to boo her campaign after the hostage crisis when prayers were given to her is beyond the pale. but that is what we are facing. the msm will never highlight that one. too bad the b and b thign tonight is not televised elsehwere-I think that one will have high importance.

  30. Every time Chicago gets mentioned, there’s tons of cheering. I suspect these are the booers.

    In fact, I’ve heard more from Chicago than Iowa during this forum.

  31. She was boo’d because she refused to promise to grant amnesty for 12 million illegal immigrants during her first 100 days in office.

    On a related note: This forum is the last straw for me. I’m finished with the Democratic Party. Has there ever been a bigger bunch of knuckleheads? My god.

  32. Hello, all. Just finished watching JE, Kucinich and Hillary. Boy, the two men were really angry folks. Besides, the type of questions aimed at Hillary had a very different tenor than those for JE and DK.

  33. After they boo’d, she should have told them that she’s against drivers licenses for illegal immigrants, too. Give the networks a nice Sister Souljah soundbyte.

    The people in that audience deserve a Republican president.

  34. Relax, HWC. Gee, there are alot of people there who work with and ARE the poorest among us. I don’t see how these people mean you have to quit the Party.

  35. HWC, she had alot of cheers during the session, too. Clearly, there are some bad apples for Obama there. It’s not that big of a deal.

  36. Gee, there are alot of people there who work with and ARE the poorest among us.

    Yeah, the very people Clinton has spent her entire adult life working to help.

    I’m done.

    I hope the Democrats nominate Kucinich.

  37. Why isn’t Dodd getting boos for citing border security and how “amnesty” isn’t politically viable?

  38. all immigrants and questions they are fillled in that room…HLR yep ..yep there most from chicago who bussed them in…well of course..the dirty politics state

  39. Well mj, I *am* getting tired of forum after forum slanted for Obama. It’s been going on all primary season — the one exception being LV, which everybody bitches about.

  40. b-merry

    my HRC office was closed today ( won’t mention where due to security reasons ) hope we get on with this and get back to business.

  41. And Hillary’s always accused of micro-managing everything, yet she’s not afraid of speaking at forums where she knows she’s going to be booed. She can handle anything.

  42. if you want to throw up your hands and give up hwc, that’s your ‘thing’.
    But don’t throw the rest of us under the bus please, we fight and believe we can turn this country around and back on track.

    It ain’t over till the fat lady sings, and a few people at a forum booing ain’t gonna change my standing! Cause I’m standing firm and tall!

    Come February ’08 we will know whether we should ‘give up’, but not until then!

  43. I’m not either, though I know what hwc means. The Democratic Party circular firing squad gets on my nerves.

  44. mj — is it our party? I think you mentioned somewhere that you’re an entrepreneur. So am I. Do you feel that the various fora have represented us at all?

    While we’re at it — we’ve had multiple fora by ethnicity — Howard U, B&B, Univision, etc.

    Where is the forum for women’s issues?

  45. Right on, Gorto! It’s true, Obama has used people in IL all campaign season to make himself look better than he is. But, so what? I believe in Hillary. And, once this primary is over, and she is president, and she’s doing good work for the people, this vitriol will subside.

  46. No, HLR, I do not think so at all. One of the things that really pisses me off, is that forum sponsors are always diehard types. They are “anti-establishment” and have decided Hillary is the establishment, so they have to be against her. I would like a forum where more moderate types of people are included. I’m actually pretty liberal, but I understand political framing, I don’t expect every issue to be served up as red meat, as some many of these forum attendee’s do. I would like a small business forum, and a women’s issues forum.

  47. I’m not watching, a bunch of Obama people eh? it’s funny how someone with so much corporate backing gets people to believe he’s so how all about the people.

  48. I ambled over to that repellent Daily Kos site and even people there are noting there seem to be an extraordinary amount of Chicago/Illinois people there for an Iowa event.

  49. Yeah, I’d like to see a debate in Arkansas or NY, it’s always ‘near’ his home. Those Chicagoans seems to be everywhere.

    I agree HLR, where are the forums for womens rights??!

  50. i know it can be emotional and all sometimes but why is everybody there crying and down beat? the bush regime is awful but lordy.

  51. yeah mj, remember the forum in wich maria shriver invited ONLY the dem candidates female spouses wich eliminated bill clinton?

  52. did you notice thats lady cathy in the background oh she agrees with these stories and sad and smile all the others she gave an angry look and her expressions were hurry up look

  53. Guys – to get off the topic, I am a bit nervous about Oprah stumping for Obama next week. The news will be full of it for the next week or two. We are getting awfully close to primaries!

    on a personal note – I just cannot stand Oprah.

  54. I can’t stand this phony – he is the real snake oil salesmen. SCHIP is a reality because of HRC! I can’t even watch this – but you know we need to so we know the lies they are saying – and make no mistake – they are liers.

  55. i can’t say i can’t stand oprah, just dissapointed in her. she better clean up her south african school before she clean up obama’s run. seriously.

  56. guys, i cannot WAIT UNTIL THIS GUY IS SQUASHED BY FEB 5TH. i want him humiliated along with his supporters.

  57. this moron is foever busing his supporters to every forum close to iowa. wtf is keeping him from having them busing to the iowa caucus to vote!!? this has to be exposed big time.

  58. If anything I think it should be reported as a compliment to the quality of Hillary’s campaign and her ability to reach people. The hostage taker sincerely believed if he contacted Hillary she could help him out.

    Overall, I too am puzzled why ABC running the story. Are they saying she shouldn’t run positive campaign ads? Are they slamming her for being an effective communicator with this ad? Or is it just a pathetic way to try to put a negative spin on the whole event?

  59. Why on earth is Oprah determined to sabatoge Hillary’s candidacy?
    There is an article – thats titled is Oprah for Obama or against Hillary! It argues that Oprah has some inside info about Bill & Hill – which is why she supports Obama and she wants to take revenge on Hillary and she will punch next week and that will be Hillary’s death blow.

    I mean it is a load of crap! I have learnt my lesson not to post right-wing babble here. So, I just read it and I just closed the screen with utter contempt. It is from a columnist as well!!

    Does anything think – we are losing momentum in NH? How are we going to conteract Oprah stumping for Obama in Iowa, NH and SC??

    Any ideas?

  60. I can’t believe I wasted time watching that pander fest. The only answer to any question from any candidate which wasn’t an outright pander was Sen Clinton’s answer not promising to pass comprehensive immigration reform in the first 100 days. She just went up another notch from my viewpoint.

  61. mj, i read the it from abcnews.com, and it is comical. he is angry becuase hillary helped a person from ny get care and did not help him? that is a flimsy excuse to do what he did. so no, it has no legs to it.

  62. Hillarylandrocks,

    http : // www . nationalpost . com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=20cf9e82-7ce2-436f-9485-0e2b95fd6208&k=47181

  63. My God…we have come to a new low in American politics if celebrities are going to go out a spead smears on political candidates.

  64. Enough about Oprah already! Are we winner or whinners?!

    Here’s the ABC article….

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/12/clinton-hostage.html
    Clinton Hostage-Taker Allegedly Cited Her Campaign Ad
    December 01, 2007 3:33 PM

    ABC News’ Kate Snow reports: ABC News has learned that Leeland Eisenberg — the man accused of holding hostages at Hillary Clinton’s Rochester, N.H., campaign office for six hours on Friday — allegedly cited one of Clinton’s campaign commercials when police say he entered the office and claimed to have a pipe bomb strapped to his chest.

    According to sources, the campaign office intruder was complaining about insurance issues and mentioned a recent campaign ad widely seen by New Hampshire voters.

    “She helped that guy, she can help me,” Eisenberg allegedly told Clinton campaign staffers, referring to Joe Ward, a Clinton supporter featured in the ad. The intruder then demanded that Sen. Clinton talk with him. On the advice of law enforcement officials, the senator never did.

    Eisenberg never actually had a bomb, authorities said, but had road flares strapped to his chest. The hostages could not see what was under his jacket and believed it could be a bomb, they added.

    Joe Ward is a New Yorker who was also featured in TV ads when Clinton ran for Senate in 2000.

    In the testimonial ad, which features somber piano music, Ward intones: “Let me tell you a little story. My son Joel had a terrible illness. He needed a bone marrow transplant that our insurance wouldn’t cover and we couldn’t afford. We called Sen. Clinton and asked for help. Her office called the next day, letting us know that the hospital was going to absorb the cost of the transplant. Now her opponents are saying that Hillary can’t be trusted? I trusted this woman to save my son’s life, and she did.”

    Watch the Ad Here: http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3941017

  65. mj — it’s on some Canadian site called National Post. It’s the speculation of some columnist.

  66. Secret, Ignore that crap. Oprah doesn’t have inside info on the Clintons. She’s campaigining for Obama because they’ve been friends for a while, as far as I can tell. It has nothing to do her disliking Hillary. And she’s hardly capable of dealing a “death blow” to Hillary, lol.

  67. Oprah boy she starts smears she will have alott of angry people at her especially when she doesn’t know one damn thing about politics..it will backfire like wild.just like you said terront…she better go take care of her school in africa,and clean it up.i think oprah is gay too…why hasnt she never married…come on..she is hiding it very well…with all that money…something wrong with this picture…i think she is fasely around with steadman…i think he is just a coverup…whenever she is out any other time he is no where around…

  68. secret

    i’ve got news for you. the only people in NH oprah might convert are losers. i’ll take the endorsements of madeline albright, wesley clark and dr. susan lynch any day over some daytime tv-personality-puke.

  69. alcina, I agree. I don’t know why people are so concerned. Oprah maybe successful but she’s had some huge public failures. I just don’t think many people will give a crap. The people at the Iowa event next week will probably be disappointed when she doesn’t give them all cars. LOL.

  70. they will only turn-out in NH next week to “see the celebrity” and that will be the end of it.

    who gives a rats-ass about oprah.

  71. i bet half of them will be Illinois people who bought tickets i heard there were 18,000 atteding..then it will finally sink in to the iowans being bombarded from illinois.i cant imagine a farmer going to this event…to see oprah

  72. if hillary loses iowa it will not be becuase of oprah. it will be becuase she is going against one of the most farthest left old fashion people that will not vote for a woman. my theory anyway. there are different kinds of forces stacked against her there. i wish that 15 percent rule was not in effect there. the 2nd choices may not be in her favor.

  73. Obama supporters calling in to CSPAN (one a former republican, one a current republican)….interesting. Lots of Hillary slamming so far…I wouldn’t put it past his campaign having people call in as he has groups targeting online polls to spin results as well.

  74. cj – hilarious

    yup, i can see it now. all those farmers riding up in their john deere’s waiting to see oprah.

    oprah = Illinois…get it, iowans??

  75. hillfans, im holding out what slim chance hillary has in winning iowa, but damn it is going to be really tough. little over a month away. i will heading to work around 9:40 pm that night so i hope i get the results before i go in. a month is long in politics.

  76. AmericanGal, How much do you want to bet these Republican Obama “supporters” will desert him if he wins the nomination? They just like him because they want to defeat Hillary.

  77. Quote from the Sunday New York Times as posted on the Obama website. The reporter (not named) equates Barbara Streisand with Jane Fonda! More MSM smears…

    Certainly, on a meta-level, there is a harmony between Ms. Winfrey and Mr. Obama, both in outlook and promise. They both speak of the politics of hope. They speak of change and spiritual renewal. Ms. Winfrey’s philosophy carries the promise of self-improvement, and her endorsement, by extension, could carry the promise of nation-improvement.

    “Obama is a post-polarization candidate and Oprah is a post-polarization celebrity,” said Ross K. Baker, a political scientist at Rutgers. “Whereas people like Barbra Streisand and Jane Fonda make you think of taking to the barricades, with Oprah it’s conciliation and brotherhood.” (Ms. Streisand endorsed Mrs. Clinton last week.)

  78. you know what paula, you have a good point. it is no secret the repukes are wetting their pants at a hillary presidency. they are maybe giving money and support to cause problems.

  79. The endorsement, MJ, I posted above, was from Huffington post. He is a bloggger there. Don’t worry about this obama rally. These people flew in from Illinois. This was a preview of the caucuses. I am glad the msm is catching up with the bussing. And I am glad Dodd and other camps are coming out and saying something. People still don’t realize, Chicago is so f***in dirty politically, and bussing in is nothing compared to other stunts he will pull.

  80. Texan4hillary, thanks for the link. Our collective impression of the “forum” is echoed by Ben Smith of Politico who was there. The groups booing Hillary apparently support her legislation – so this is not about the issue it is about all the imported Chicagoans. Smith also points out the hall was half-empty. This event was not televised so no real voters will see this mess, which in a way is a shame. Political reporters are becoming aware of the takeover of the Iowa Caucuses by the Chicago mob:

    “The group, despite the Iowa location of this event, appears to have brought a large portion of the couple thousand people here from Chicago (they keep cheering at the mention of the city, and the Gamaliel Foundation, for which Obama was once an organizer, chartered two buses) and the questions are heavily focused on issues related to immigration, punctuated by the occasional chant of “Si se puede.”

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1207/Other_side_of_the_immigration_debate_comes_to_Iowa.html

  81. admin:

    I wish they televised this and the rest of the country would have seen the crowd booing Hillary for saying we must protect our borders first. That along with the loud ovation Obama got subsequently should have convinced the country who this guy is. That politico link was helpful. Now we know SEIU and Laraza members from Chicago filled in this crowd. The more I see this guy the more he reminds me of George Bush. Remember Bush was supposed to be a uniter but the mob crowded the Broward county office when the recount was going on in 2000. This guy is running a mob in Chicago.

  82. Paula, they’ve already spread rumors that she has. It’s pathetic. They just want to be able to ecuse Obama if he sucks.

  83. Here’s one thing, the others may go after Obama tonight. He’s the one the press has elevated. He’s been the beneficiary of all the others attacks on Hill. Wouldn’t it be delicious if they finally set the record straight on Obama.

  84. i saw the event on cspan. the bb tonight will be interesting-but i dont think it will be televised here in tx. probably just in iowa

  85. From Politico (has it been posted?):

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1207/Michigan_Stripped.html

    December 01, 2007
    Michigan Stripped

    The Freep reports:

    Michigan Democrats were stripped of all 156 delegates to their party’s national convention in August this morning.

    Despite arguments from top state Democrats who sought to justify their decision to sanction the Jan. 15 presidential primary as their official method of choosing delegates to the convention, the Democratic National Committee found the state in violation of party rules that allow only four states — Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada — to hold primaries or caucuses earlier than Feb. 5.

    As it had earlier done with Florida, the committee stripped Michigan of all its delegates, though it is expected that the eventual party presidential nominee ultimately will allow the seating of the state’s delegates.

  86. HDNet is broadcasting the Brown and Black Presidential Forum tonight at 7:00. We have no idea what this HDNet is. Appears to be another tree falling in the forest without an ear to hear it.

    HDNet also runs Test Patterns. Tonight’s forum might not be far from a Test Pattern because Hillary won’t be there. Celiff says a lot of the people from today’s earlier Obama rally, disguised as a forum, will be attending.

    http://hd.net/schedule_today.html

  87. Ben Smith pulls his idiot attention seeking routine again.

    Regarding the news reports today of Obama bringing in his Chicago mob to take over the Iowa caucuses, Ben Smith says something really really dumb. Anyone with accounts on Politico should challenge Smith on this.

    Smith says that Hillary is doing the same thing by citing one (1) student who is a co-chair of Students for Hillary and who attends Iowa State University going back to Iowa to attend the caucuses.

    Ben Smith fails to see the difference between one (1) student doing this and an ORGANIZED, PAID effort by the Obama campaign to bus in thousands of non-resident students. What an idiot.

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1207/Those_sneaky_outofstaters.html

  88. Texan4Hillary, she will probably be there by telephone link again. The storms have not subsided in Iowa and she was in NH as of 4:00.

  89. Celiff to do a smiley face the parens goes after the colon. You are doing the opposite. : then ) will get you 🙂 this. what you are doing is (: which is not the smiley. There are variations with semi-colons ; which get you 😉 this. There are other variations.

  90. BTW, I’m beginning to wonder if Hillary should’ve bypassed Iowa, like her campaign was considering doing back in the spring, when they knew well the advantages Obama and Edwards have there. What do you all think?

  91. Paula, the only people who will be watching will be in Iowa, via public television. They are also the people who know the weather conditions in Iowa today. Iowans also know that Hillary needed to go to NH yesterday. This will be a wash.

  92. For an idea of what is going on in Iowa weatherwise check this article out. The Des Moines airport is closed.

    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071201/D8T8ULN00.html
    Much of Iowa was hit by snow, sleet and freezing rain.

    Hundreds of flights were canceled at airports in Des Moines, Chicago and Milwaukee. Officials decided to close Des Moines International Airport for several hours after a United Airlines plane slid off a taxiway as it was heading to a runway for a flight to Chicago’s O’Hare, said airport spokesman Roy Criss. He said none of the 44 passengers was injured and the airport reopened by mid-afternoon.

    ———–

  93. I can’t get over the absurdity of having two black and brown forums in Iowa today. That’s more black and brown forums that there are black and brown PEOPLE in Iowa!

  94. That means there is one more debate in Iowa on Dec 13th and one in NH on 17th before the first primary. Am I correct?

  95. hwc:

    Today afternoon’s forum was a joke. That lady was screaming at Clinton about her having multiple degrees and then some rant. If anything, she should ask the same question with the same intensity at a republican debate.

  96. Yet another look at what our brave Hillary is facing in this campaign:

    http://www.newhouse.com/hillary-hatred-finds-its-misogynistic-voice.html
    Hillary Hatred Finds Its Misogynistic Voice
    By JONATHAN TILOVE
    c.2007 Newhouse News Service

    WASHINGTON — In the coming months, America will decide whether to elect its first female president. And amid a techno-media landscape where the wall between private vitriol and public debate has been reduced to rubble, Sen. Hillary Clinton is facing an onslaught of open misogynistic expression.

    Step lightly through that thickly settled province of the Web you could call anti-Hillaryland and you are soon knee-deep in “bitch,” “slut,” “skank,” “whore” and, ultimately, what may be the most toxic four-letter word in the English language.

    We have never been here before.

    No woman has run quite the same gantlet. And of course, no man.

    Thanks to several thousand years of phallocentric history, there is no comparable vocabulary of degradation for men, no equivalently rich trove of synonyms for a sexually sullied male. As for the word beginning with C? No single term for a man reduces him to his genitals to such devastating effect.

    In times past, this coarser conversation would have remained mostly personal and subterranean. But now we have a blogosphere, where no holds are barred and vituperative speech is prized. We have social networking sites like Facebook and MySpace, with their limitless ability to make the personal public.

    There are no rules. And so far there is little recognition in the political and media mainstream of the teeming misogyny only a mouseclick away.

    “Part of the way a culture asks, ‘Where are the boundaries?’ is somebody makes it the topic of a meta-conversation — let’s talk about the talk,” said Kathleen Hall Jamieson, director of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania. That’s what happened after Don Imus called the Rutgers University women’s basketball team “nappy-headed hos.”

    “It’s a discussion we are going to have if Hillary Clinton is nominated,” said Jamieson, who originally went searching the Web for racist invective aimed at Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, only to find the raw sexism being directed at Hillary Clinton far more common and virulent.

    “I’ve been waiting,” Jamieson said. “When is somebody going to make this stuff visible enough to have that conversation?”

    She thought the moment had arrived in mid-November when, at a campaign meeting in South Carolina, a woman of patrician bearing asked Arizona Sen. John McCain, “How do we beat the bitch?”

    A surprised McCain laughed along with the rest of the small crowd.

    “That’s an excellent question,” said McCain after regaining his stride. Then he proceeded to explain why he could indeed beat the junior senator from New York.

    Viewed nearly a million times on YouTube in just the week afterward, “How Do We Beat the Bitch” has entered the lore of the 2008 campaign, but with barely a hint of soul-searching about what it means.

    “Can you imagine if that woman had said, ‘How do we beat the “n-word”?'” asked Debbie Walsh, director of the Center for American Women and Politics at Rutgers University’s Eagleton Institute of Politics. For McCain, said Walsh, or at least for those who think the nation might have benefited by examining why that woman felt so free to say what she did so publicly, “It was a terrible missed opportunity.”

    To be sure, apart from her gender, Clinton is a polarizing figure, half of a personal and political partnership with her husband, former President Bill Clinton, that weathered countless storms — most sensationally his impeachment growing out of a sex scandal.

    Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton has at times appeared the kind of feminist icon who stokes male insecurities about changing gender relations.

    A conservative Republican woman running for president might provoke a far less angry male response, said sociologist C.J. Pascoe, a researcher with the Digital Youth Project at Berkeley’s Institute for the Study of Social Change. “This would not be happening if it were Elizabeth Dole,” Pascoe said.

    But, she said, Hillary Clinton offers young men on social networking sites a ripe target for their aggression.

    The political impact of all this is uncertain. But Pascoe warns that the broader society ignores the implications of the conversations being conducted on these sites at its peril.

    “This is the new world that’s coming,” she said.

    Facebook, popular with high school and college students, has dozens of anti-Hillary groups, many of which take great, sweaty delight in heaping abuse on Clinton as a woman, imagining her reduced to a subservient role, and visiting violence upon her.

    One is “Hillary Clinton: Stop Running for President and Make Me a Sandwich,” with more than 23,000 members and 2,200 “wall posts” — Internet graffiti in which discussants have fantasized about Clinton being raped by a donkey.

    Eschewing the slightest wit or subtlety, some high school boys in Olathe, Kan., created “Punch her in the c—!!”. With about 200 members, this group features the discussion topics “Why we hate Hillary Clinton,” “Why you REALLY hate Hillary Clinton” and “What will we do if Hillary becomes president,” which drew two replies — “death” and “shooter in the cooter?”

    Another Facebook group, more temperate in tone and with about 13,000 members, is “Life’s a bitch, why vote for one? Anti-Hillary ’08.” Like several other anti-Clinton sites, this one promotes a T-shirt: “Hillary for President. She Puts the C— in Country.”

    What’s going on here?

    Is this merely some adolescent “guys gone wild” (most but by no means all of the Hillary haters are male)? The rank rituals of the rec room revealed for the whole world to see?

    The proprietors of the Facebook group “Hillary Clinton Shouldn’t Run for President, She Should Just Run the Dishes,” with 2,159 members, offer a pre-emptive disclaimer to offended visitors:

    “Do not message just to say how sexist we are and how the Lord will strike us down for hating women. That is just ignorant. It’s been really hard to respond to all of the e-mails without saying the C-word, don’t make us start now.”

    But in an interview, Daniel Jussaume, a 20-year-old junior studying politics at the University of Southern Maine in Gorham, gives a more nuanced reply.

    Jussaume was not among the creators of “Just Run the Dishes.” After he joined, however, he volunteered to chair its “Feminist Liberal Complaint Dept.”

    “Words only have the power you give them,” he said, describing himself as a moderate-conservative leaning toward either McCain or Rudolph Giuliani for president.

    People need to see the humor in politics, he said. He loves Comedy Central’s “The Daily Show” with Jon Stewart and “The Colbert Report,” and is among the more than 1.4 million members of the Facebook group “1,000,000 strong for Stephen T. Colbert,” even though he knows Stewart and Colbert are mocking his conservative politics.

    Moreover, Jussaume said, “I’m not against women in politics. I hope in my lifetime I can live to see a female president.”

    As for the c-word, he says he doesn’t use it and that people posting online need to recognize that they bear responsibility for what they write. “I know people who were turned down for jobs because of what they have on their MySpace page from the week before,” Jussaume said.

    That may explain the careful response of Tyler Hawley, a student at Bucknell University and an administrator of “Hillary Clinton: Stop Running for President and Make Me a Sandwich.”

    Contacted about the group, Hawley responded by e-mail: “After carefully deliberating with the other creators of our Facebook group … we are going to have to respectfully decline your request for an interview.”

    He continued: “As young college students, we have careers to worry about, and having our name tied with a Facebook group that has been labeled sexist is not something that we are proud of. The opinions expressed on ‘The Wall’ are those of the posters only, and do not reflect the views of the creators. We are sorry that we cannot help you in your article, but we do not want to jeopardize our careers over a joke that … we started in High School.”

    Jamieson said the tone of sex-specific “vilification” of Clinton is set in the mainstream media.

    On his radio show, which reaches 14.5 million people, Rush Limbaugh talks about Clinton’s “testicle lock box.” On his MSNBC show, Tucker Carlson says, “There’s just something about her that feels castrating, overbearing and scary,” and a guest, Cliff May, president of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies and a former spokesman for the Republican National Committee, says that if Clinton is going to appeal to women for support on the basis of her gender, “at least call her a vaginal-American.”

    Young people, said Jamieson, take their cues from family and friends in a foggy geography of pop culture replete with misogynistic music, video games and crude comedy, where what separates fact from satire, bluster from menace (and for that matter, adolescence from adulthood), is hard to divine.

    Comedy Central is a source of both entertainment and political news for its audience, which is heavily young and male. Among its most popular offerings is the outrageous animated show “South Park,” which in March had an episode in which terrorists (Russian mercenaries hired by Queen Elizabeth II, bent on the reconquest of America) place a bomb in Hillary Clinton’s vagina. (The episode provoked much less outrage than another mocking Tom Cruise and his religion, Scientology.)

    Sexist language is not the exclusive domain of the young or the politically conservative. The Rude Pundit, a liberal blog written by Lee Papa, an English professor at the College of Staten Island, takes regular pleasure in applying the c-word to provocative right-wing commentator Ann Coulter. And when David Ferguson, who blogs as TRex on Firedoglake.com, last year used the word to describe the conservative talk show host and writer Laura Ingraham, there ensued a lively online debate about the left and anti-feminism.

    While Jane Hamsher, Firedoglake’s founder, said she doesn’t like or employ the c-word, she defended TRex’s right to use it.

    With regard to Clinton, she said, “There’s a deep string of sexism that informs a lot of the criticism … and sometimes it’s hard to disentangle.”

    Hamsher wants to defend Clinton from that kind of attack without being mistaken for a Clinton supporter, which she is not. But she expects there may be some women, otherwise cool to Clinton, who will rally around the senator as the misogyny burns brighter.

    Jamieson concurred. “This has the potential to push a lot of moderate Republican women toward her,” she said.

    The Clinton campaign may be counting on that.

    (Jonathan Tilove can be contacted at jonathan.tilove(at)newhouse.com)

  97. there is no way hillary can come tonight. its way too dangerous. all it will be is boo fest on hillary anyway. i think hiillary is right to fight for iowa. if she skipped it it may have caused her more woes. the msm would be chatting about the dems there in iowa and not as much on hillary. clark skipped it and it hurt him hillary is a fighter and she has to fight here-if she can pull it off it will make her the nominee. worth a shot.

  98. alcina …lol yep i went to eat..farmer john got his john deer picking up oprah to harvest the fields so she can get a little wider ….lol…oh i must take that back but i do not watch her i cant stand her show…but im a right because of the larger people i really like, its her that makes this worse she has all these nutruitnist to come and help and they do help larger people..but she hasnt really tried she said she does but ive only seen her once where she lost..and now she is just a hypocrite because she eats all that chocolate on that show or cake…she is suppose to be helping others not taunt them with all that food on her show…same with the books…and for someone serious who wants to loose wait well dont count on her,i have nothing against larger women or man but she doesnt help them in any way…

    what time is that b@b on tonight

  99. They better show that Obama is leading it if they want the rest of tge media to parrot their poll. Otherwise, the MSM will ignore it and still use the Was. Post poll. 🙂

  100. The Hillary Team is responding to Ben Smith’s idiotic article. The campaign is responding on this issue. Thanks again Celiff. Here is Ben Smith with the Hillary Clinton response:

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1207/Clinton_aide_Obama_trying_to_manipulate_the_Iowa_caucuses.html

    A Clinton spokesman, Mo Elleithee, this afternoon drew a distinction between her campaign’s approach to college campuses and Obama’s, amplifying Yepsen’s criticism of the Obama campaign.

    There’s a big difference here. We are not systematically trying to manipulate the Iowa caucuses with out of state people. We don’t have literature recruiting out of state college students. We didn’t bus in folks from out of state to the JJ. We didn’t bring in out of state activists to the Heartland Forum.

    Also, I’m told the out-of-state student backing Clinton, whom I mentioned earlier, was born in Iowa and plans to live here after she graduates, for what it’s worth.

  101. alcina, want to let you know that somehow the Manchester Union Leader has gotten hold of our personal information as Hillary volunteers here and we just got a phone call asking if we know the hostages and did we think that they’re ready to talk. The person who called said that they’d call back tomorrow. If you have anyone you can contact, please let them know. I cannot get any answer at any of the phone numbers I have. Thanks.

  102. There you go, admin, smackdown from Clinton camp. They need to hit on this in the last two weeks of the campaign and make it to everyone in the world that Obama is bussing loads of people into Iowa on caucus day to caucus for him. Even other candidates should put pressure on Obama on this topic. I know breck girl won’t do it, but Dodd, Biden, and Richardson might.

  103. At this point in time, I guess Obama is running away from debates where he has to share the stage with others and defend his positions. He just wants the stage to himself so he can give his lofty speeches which copies issue positionsfrom other candidates.

    Hillary, on the other hand is looking forward to debating Obama where she can be on the same stage with him and show her command of the issues over him.

  104. Someone posted this on Taylor’s site about Obama.

    I’m from Chicago originally, let me tell you how Obama became a State Senator.
    There was a State Senator named Alice Palmer (excellent Senator,btw). Palmer had health issues if I remember correctly. She asked Obama to stand in for her on the ballot in case she recovered (standard pratice in Illinois).
    She trusted him “this fine & talented young man”. If things didn’t go well, he could run for her seat. If she recovered, he would step aside and allow her to run one last time at which time he could take her seat. He agreed, she trusted him and thought that was the end of that. Well,well,well. She got well, she called him, he said he changed his mind. She said he would force her to run against him. Obama was brutal against her. Had his people research all of her petitions & questioned every signature.
    Palmer was an independent Democrat (anti-Daley), Obama aligned himself with Daley. Daley’s guys at Elections sided with Obama who became State Senator.
    Whatever happened to Palmer? She just signed on to Senator Hillary Clinton’s Illinois Steering Committe.
    It is past time for Obama to drown in the sea of hypocrisy he has been swimming in.

  105. Is it someone from Iowa or an outside endorsing him in Iowa? If it is someone within Iowa, and it is huge, then it could be the governor. From outside, if it is HUGE, I think it could be Carter. Just guessing! 🙂

  106. It’s not Carter. He doesn’t endorse.

    Re: Alice Palmer — that story isn’t quite right. She gave up her seat for a congressional race, not health reasons.

    The petitions part of it is true. She’s on Hillary’s IL team, btw.

  107. The lady who posted the information about how Obama became a state senator posted the following update on Taylor’s site.

    My apologies. I just checked, it wasn’t about her health, it was a career situation. Everything else is the same. They had an agreement & the rest is accurate. Senator Palmer did have serious health issues but that was different.
    He was brutal & he did cut a deal with Daley. Senator Palmer was & is very popular. A lot of people still remember & are watching.

  108. HLR:

    My guess was based on their similarity in ideology with regards to foreign policy. It could also be the new senator from Missouri. I forgot her name.

  109. Here is some more info. on Obama by some commenter on Taylor’s site.

    CHICAGO – The day after New Year’s 1996, operatives for Barack Obama filed into a barren hearing room of the Chicago Board of Election Commissioners.

    There they began the tedious process of challenging hundreds of signatures on the nominating petitions of state Sen. Alice Palmer, a longtime progressive activist from the city’s South Side. They kept challenging petitions until every one of Obama’s four Democratic primary rivals was forced off the ballot.

    Fresh from his work as a civil rights lawyer and head of a voter-registration project that expanded access to the ballot box, Obama launched his first campaign for the Illinois Senate saying he wanted to empower disenfranchised citizens. advertisement

    In that initial bid for political office, Obama quickly mastered the bare-knuckled arts of Chicago electoral politics. His overwhelming legal onslaught signaled his impatience to gain office, even if that meant elbowing aside an elder stateswoman like Palmer.

    A close examination of Obama’s first campaign clouds the image he has cultivated throughout his political career: The man now running for president on a message of giving a voice to the voiceless first entered public office not by leveling the playing field, but by clearing it.

    One of the candidates he eliminated, long-shot contender Gha-is Askia, says now that Obama’s petition challenges belied his image as a champion of the little guy and crusader for voter rights.

    “Why say you’re for a new tomorrow, then do old-style Chicago politics to remove legitimate candidates?” Askia asked. “He talks about honor and democracy, but what honor is there in getting rid of every other candidate so you can run scot-free? Why not let the people decide?”

  110. I thought Hillary was supposed to be the cut-throat one.

    Just and FYI: Howard Wolfson will be on Face the Nation tomorrow along with Axelrod.

  111. someone wrote on huffington post..

    The american people seems to be under a super star spell,
    I hope that it pops before January and February’s election.
    To conclude, the story of Obama is true, he was a muslim- why deny it?
    Simply this doesn’t go while with the church christian goers,
    so he makes sure that he spreads his denial over and over.
    Get his father down here to the US and see how fast his ratings go down.

    The WORST person you can vote for President is a PROFESSOR, their rhetoric are based on IDEAS….that’s their limitation….IDEAS….how to put that idea into action? That’s a BIG QUESTION!

  112. What someone’s religion at birth ,or what their skin color or gender is not concerns me. These are something are born with through no fault of theirs. What bothers me is the kind of behavior he exhibited through out the primary, and just now learning the behavior he exhibited while at Illinois legislature. He is through and through fraud employing Chicago style politics to get himself ahead. Attacking Hillary with the Novak piece is also part of it.

  113. Politico is also reporting that Obama’s Iowa man Gordon Fischer listed on his web site that there is a huge endorsement coming tomorrow. I checked his blog. It has a lot of anti-Hillary rhetoric. It is pathetic that this guy was the democratic pary chair in Iowa from 2002 to 2004.

  114. I think it will be perfectly fine if Obama is shown to be ahead in Iowa in the new poll. Perhaps that will finally motivate the media to do their job and ask questions that have been ignored for so long.

    On the endorsement: could it possibly be Al Gore?

  115. Edwards really has dramatically toned down the attacks on Clinton, and his embrace of Obama is growing warmer.

    Given a question to ask any of his rivals, he turned to Obama, saying they were the (presumably only) two candidates to speak passionately about poverty.

    “Our voices together are more powerful than our voices alone,” he said, before asking Obama a question on which (as he must have known in advance) the answer was a “yes” to which he’d already committed, which was on raising the minimum wage to $9.50. (Obama supports indexing the minimum wage, which would accomplish that goal.)

  116. Edwards on rivals’ race

    The question of whether Obama’s and Richardsons’ race hurt or help them is really a trap for Edwards, because there’s no good answer. His wife has suggested that Clinton’s and Obama’s pathbreaking status have helped, though, and and when asked this evening, he seems to see it the same way.

    “I don’t think it’s hurt them, first of all,” he says. Has it helped? “I don’t know.”

  117. The issue is sentencing for drug possession, and the relatively long sentences that (largely black) defendants get for crack cocaine possession. The United States Sentencing Commission has recommended reducing those sentences, and there’s a debate underway on the question of whether changes to sentencing would be made retroactive, permitting about 20,000 people in prison to apply for early release.

    Clinton said she opposes retroactivity: In principle I have problems with retroacivity,” she said. “It’s something a lot of communties will be concerned about as well.”

    The other five candidates on stage — Dodd, Edwards, Kucinich, Obama, and Richardson — all said the opposite — that they favor retroactivity.

    That’s a real difference on a real law-and-order issue.

  118. Lovefest II

    Bill Richardson praises Bill Clinton, then asks Hillary,

    “Don’t you think that governors make good presidents?”

    “Well, Bill, I think they also make good Vice Presidents,” she responds.

  119. Funny exchange reported on MyDD from tonights forum:

    Richardson to Clinton: He’s equating Bill Clinton to himself and asks her “Don’t you think Governors make good presidents?” “Well Bill. I also think they make good Vice Presidents.” Hilarious. That’s her entire answer. Moderator: “Aren’t you sorry you asked?” Richardson doesn’t know what to do.

  120. On DU some are practically hyperventilating that it may be Gore. Also, someone added that the Iowa blog site that had the announcement now doesn’t seem to have it there. Was it just a hoax?

  121. That is right AmericanGal. It was removed from that jerk’s (Gordon Fischer’s) web site. I think it is Al Sharpton.

  122. I wish she would not have gone to the right of Biden and Risharson on retroactive immunity. This really annoys me.

  123. Somehow we doubt that an Al Sharpton endorsement would be helpful in Iowa. Even Obama is not that dumb. If it was Al Sharpton the endorsement would be announced in South Carolina.

  124. Why is Edwards sucking on Obama’s feet? The only reason I can think of is he wants to be 2nd choice of Obama’s supporters. Still, I don’t think Obama will fall below a certain threshold at any precinct. So, I don’t know how it helps Edwards.

  125. I wish she would not have gone to the right of Biden and Risharson on retroactive immunity.

    Another Democratic Party circular firing squad question.

    I can see the Republican ad now:

    “Hillary wants to release 20,000 crack addicts from jail to come live in your neighborhood.”

  126. Admin:

    He doesn’t say that the endorsement was going to be in Iowa. He just said “huge endorsement coming tomorrow” before he removed that post completely.

  127. HWC, I agree, in theory, however, she stills needs to get through the primary. If Dodd and Richardson had agreed, I just think it is not so good for her to be to the right of everyone on stage.

  128. hwc:

    That’s what I was thinking. She was smart. She did not want to retroactively change anything. She is always thinking about general election. The rest of them are just looking at the primary. Like you said, the republicans will be waiting with an ad. showing all criminals running around with a simple sentence on the screen “so and so wants to let all the criminals (insert pedophiles) back into the street”. She was smart to avoid it.

  129. mj,
    I agree with you. She needs to win the primary first, before she thinks about GE. But, it is a very fine balance isn’t it?

  130. mj:

    My guess is Hillary doesn’t care if others on the stage agree with her or not. She is only thinking that if and when she makes it through primaries, she does not want to hold positions on issues that will result in a swiftboat type ad. She’s only thinking general, which is smart for her.

  131. This is funny.

    Obama asks a question. “Hate crimes among latinos have gone way up. Epidemic of nooses all over the country. President has to set a tone of bringing all people together. A wide coalition has come together around strengthening hate crimes legislation, Sen Biden, what can we do now so we don’t have to wait until I’m president?” Biden: “We need someone in the civil rights division of the justice department who will go after these crimes aggressively. When you allow one celebrated hate crime go unattended, you say it’s OK. I’d be happy to make you the head of the civil rights division in my administration.” Some “oooohs” from the audience.

  132. What crime bill are they asking Hillary about? Funny, they never want to ask about the positive like COPS, which vastly lowered crime rates almost immediately.

  133. If I am just analyzing Bill Clinton’s presidency by reading blogs and attending these debates, I would think he was a worst democratic president. Fortunately, I have lived through it and so I know.

  134. WELL, MY GUESS IS THAT HE HAS THE NEW MAYOR OF NEW YORK AS HIS BIG ENDORSEMENT…
    DIDNT THEY HAVE LUNCH YESTERDAY?

    WHAT DO YOU THINK ADMIN…?

    SORRY I AM DRAWING A BLANK AS TO HIS NAME…

  135. HWC, I agree, in theory, however, she stills needs to get through the primary. If Dodd and Richardson had agreed, I just think it is not so good for her to be to the right of everyone on stage.

    If the price of getting the nomination is taking positions that guarantee a Republican win in 2009, I’d just as soon see Clinton lose the nomination and wipe her hands of the whole mess.

  136. yup. First it was Russert posing questions that viewed 90s in a bad light. Now it is these guys. Life must have been really good if the only thing people worried in 90s was if Clinton deserved to be impeached for lying about an affair with an intern. No wars without exit strategies, very well respected around the world and doing extremely well at home with a budget surplus.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4cqhpQbW4Y

  137. “taking positions that guarantee a Republican win in 2009” Hyperbolic, IMO. Bill Clinton said the primary would be tougher than the general and I agree.

  138. “If the price of getting the nomination is taking positions that guarantee a Republican win in 2009, I’d just as soon see Clinton lose the nomination and wipe her hands of the whole mess.”

    Bingo.

  139. hwc:

    That is what Hillary is thinking. She does want to just be the nominee and have taken all losing positions and then loose the election. People will say, “She can’t win. We told you so.”

  140. Besides, isn’t this month’s “theme” all about having the political courage to tell the American people what they need to hear?

    And, as a pratical matter, I doubt that the 99.99% lily-white residents of Iowa favor opening up the prisons and releasing a bunch of crackheads into their lily white cornfields.

  141. So, it doesn’t sound at all like this debate audience was stacked in her favor. Is Chase Marin and Huffington Post going to apologize for their rumor spreading?

  142. “taking positions that guarantee a Republican win in 2009″ Hyperbolic, IMO. Bill Clinton said the primary would be tougher than the general and I agree.

    I personally give the Democrats less than a 50-50 chance of winning the White House in 2009. Anybody but Clinton will get swiftboated and lose. If Clinton gets the nomination, it is clear to me that a huge chunk of the Democratic Party will stab her in the back in the general election.

  143. CJ ISNT BLOOMBERG AN INDEPENDANT NOW? I THINK HE IS…

    SO IF HE ENDORSES BO HE DRAWS THE INDEPENDANTS WITH HIM.

  144. Ha — it’s Chase Martyn, another one of these self-appointed blog “experts.”

    Why — is this another Obama audience? I don’t have HDNet, have no idea how this thing is going.

  145. mj:

    Chase Martyn? Kidding me. He is firmly in the Obama camp. Someone from Obama camp pre-empted it by leaking a rumor to Chase Martyn and asking him to put it in his paper. He gladly obliged without doing any fact checking.

  146. Yes, Bloomberg recently dropped his R-affiliation, but he’s been a huge Republican supporter, nonetheless.

  147. I can just tell this isn’t an audience stacked for Hillary by the live blogging at mydd.

    The new Desmoines Register Poll is out.

    Obama 28
    Hillary 25
    Edwards 23

  148. I don’t know why you think that HWC. Alot has changed in the last 4 years. It would be extremely hard for a Republican to win, and all of their candidates have serious issues.

  149. In a way I am gald that the DM poll is showing a narrow Obama lead. We have three polls now showing Obama in the lead. So, now no one from MSM should technically expect Hillary to win this thing. The expectations are set.

  150. I should say, I think it will be a breeze for Hillary, not any Dem. She is running against both left and right right now, and the media has Obama. The general will be a different story.

  151. Yes, but I honestly think when it is jus Hillary against one Republican it’s going to be alot easier than this slugfest.

  152. united12 — I saw that, but 5 min w/ Bloomberg’s deposition in multiple sexual harassment cases tells me that he ain’t no VP candidate.

  153. for the Democrats, that is 🙂

    A Obama/Bloomberg ticket guarantees I stay home for the GE. I’m not the only one who’d feel that way.

  154. Edwards and Obama joint campaign against Hillary on Iran seems to have doner her some damage. This is a tidbit from today’ DM.

    Iowa City Democrat Katharyn Browne said she abandoned her support for Clinton in the past month and now supports Obama in light of the Iran issue.

    Obama spent weeks in October and November attacking Clinton’s support for a measure that allowed President Bush to declare the Iran’s Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization, a move Obama said was a step toward war. Clinton said the measure enhanced U.S. negotiating strength with Iran.

    “An Iran war terrifies me,” said Browne, a 30-year-old University of Iowa student.

    Browne said she feels Obama is a more inspirational candidate than Clinton, despite the intensifying crossfire between them.

    “I just think that Obama is more of a positive candidate overall,” she said. “Aside from the Clinton-Obama interaction lately, it’s nice to hear a candidate with a positive outlook. I think our country needs that right now.”

    Browne, who supported Clinton early partly out of gender loyalty, represents a shift among some women caucusgoers from Clinton to Obama.

    In the new poll, Obama leads with support from 31 percent of women likely attend the caucuses, compared to 26 percent for Clinton. In October, Clinton was the preferred candidate of 34 percent of women caucusgoers, compared to 21 percent for Obama.

    Women represent roughly six in 10 Democratic caucusgoers, according to the new poll.

    http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071201/NEWS09/71201009/-1/iowapoll07

  155. This actually makes me feel like crying. What fools these women are! Obama didn’t even vote on that resolution, and there doesn’t actually seem to be any coming war with Iran.

  156. This is another tidbit from DM:

    Clinton is the top choice among caucusgoers 55 years old and older. The largest share of Democratic caucusgoers — exactly half — are in this age group.

    Pleasant Hill Democrat Jack Hill is one of them. The 61-year-old salesman said Clinton is battle-tested and capable of bringing about changes on the domestic and international fronts.

    “She’s a tough old cookie,” said Hill. “She’s a tough woman and I feel we need a change from politics as usual.”

    Clinton continued to rate highest on key traits, such as most presidential, knowledgeable about the world, electable and experienced. She also was seen as the most ego-driven and negative.

    Clinton and Obama were viewed as the most committed to public service, while Obama led on traits such as most likeable, principled and best able bring together Republicans and Democrats.

    The former first lady continues to face stubborn misgivings, despite her dozens of visits to the state this year and increasing campaign presence of her husband, the popular former president.

    Thirty percent of Democratic caucusgoers viewed Sen. Clinton as either mostly or very unfavorably, behind U.S. Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio and former Alaska Sen. Mike Gravel. She topped the list of candidates whose nomination would be one of the biggest disappointments at 27 percent.

    Other troubling news for Clinton included a sharp decline in support from members of union households, where she was the preferred candidate with support from 34 percent in the October poll. In the new poll, Clinton is third among union households with 21 percent.

    Obama and Edwards have recently criticized Clinton’s past support for the North American Free Trade Agreement, which they argue cost the United States millions of jobs. Clinton has said recently the trade pact, enacted during her husband’s first term, did not deliver.

  157. She topped the list of candidates whose nomination would be one of the biggest disappointments at 27 percent.

    These guys are pretty pathetic.

  158. the 2nd or 3rd poll showing hillary behind the punk, but remember 3 points is not that much. then again the big media will spin this as a HUGE negative. folks, hillary is going to need all the money, organization, and plenty of hard hitting caimpaigning to win iowa and still may not win it. F*CK!!!

  159. I don’t know why you think that HWC. Alot has changed in the last 4 years. It would be extremely hard for a Republican to win, and all of their candidates have serious issues.

    Don’t kid yourself. It takes everything the Democrats have got to beat the Republicans in a general election. Don’t forget, Iraq drops off the table if Bush starts “withdrawing troops” after a “successful surge” in 2008.

    Here’s the winning narrative for the Republicans — “The Democratic candidate is for big government, higher taxes, waving the white flag in the war on terror, and illegal immigration…”

    Start plugging the potential Democratic candidates into that narrative and tell me you odds.

  160. Hey guys.

    Won’t Specifically say where I’ve been today…as there may be other peopl reading this *wink wink*
    but just know that I hopped on a certain bus to Iowa.
    That bus met up with others.
    The group was divided. 3/4 were assigned to “an important event” and the other quarter or so people were sent to knock on doors.
    I was knocking on doors for “you-know-who” but I think I converted some to Hillary instead 😉 with all my accidental slippups of Obama’s past indiscretions. 🙂

    anyways, it was a crazy day!

  161. Clinton is the “negative” candidate? I am surprised. Are these guys, f.cking idiots or sexists? She is more negative than Edwards? Real morons.

  162. That’s what I said the other nite — she’s lost support w/ women and is trailing badly w/ the youth vote.

    The 50+ vote is shared with Edwards, Richardson, etc. The younger vote is almost exclusively Obama’s.

  163. HWC, I guess you’re right. I just always think of Hill as the nominee. But these women going for Obama over a war that is never going to happen? It’s so disappointing.

  164. Yeah. Look at the vitriol they have for her. More disliked than Kucinich? Come on, if that isn’t sexism WTF is it?

  165. I’m afraid we may have a repeat of ’04 when Iowa democrats allowed the media to pick Kerry as the electable candidate. Dean would have been a lot better in the general and Kerry was a disaster. Oh well, some people never learn.

    Even if Iowa is a loss, unless it’s a blowout I don’t think it will give Obama the big bounce in NH that Kerry got in ’04. At least, I hope not!

  166. I have no f.cking clue as to Edwards’s strategy other than being a suicide bomber for Obama. He is third in Iowa – the place that he has to win at any cost – and he is applauding the candidate who is leading while tearing down the candidate who is in second position.

  167. mj:

    The other problem is that only 5% of Iowa voters show up to caucus. That means that the caucus is pretty much exclusively limited to the lunatic fringe of the Democratic Party. It’s the real world equivalent of Daily Kos.

    It’s like the Jesus Freaks having control of the Republican nominating process. In both cases, the party’s fringes work counter to a necessary strategy in the fall election:

    a) cross the commander-in-chief threshold with gravitas on national security

    b) stake out a position as close to the center as you can get.

  168. like hwc said some days ago paraphrasing, there is a stubborn wall against hillary in iowa. im not saying throw in the towel and expecting a certain loss there but from now on im looking at a close second. this is not defeatist attitude, just a little reality check on my part.

  169. But these women going for Obama over a war that is never going to happen?

    What’s far more disappointing to me is that he’s got any credibility when he doesn’t cast tough votes.

  170. Isn’t this the time for Hillary to go more negative? The MSM is giving Obama a free pass. What has she got to lose? She is behind already (a least a little). Maybe we need to see that girl fighter she promised for the GE. She may need to show women directly who is the one that is really fighting for them. I hope she takes Obama on directly and forcefully. I think her campaign is being way too polite.

  171. Yeah, I know and that state is isolationist/pacifist to the extreme, so just imagine the caucus goers. But, the media is going to hype this to the hills. Seriously, if I had the wherewithall, I’d go to Iowa and talk to these women who think Hillary is planning war with Iran. I’m so steamed right now.

  172. I really hope she loses Iowa and then sweeps the rest. That would be a smack on the face of those Iowa caucus goers who think she is worse than Kucinich and Gravel (She topped the list of candidates whose nomination would be one of the biggest disappointments at 27 percent.). She should also stop spending her bank on Iowa.

  173. hillfans, i really think hillary and the team have no choice but to go NUCLEAR on the punk. they have stuff on him im sure. heck with it. pummel him.

  174. Obama gaining from that Iran vote is just so damn frustrating…first of all, he put his tail between his legs and ran from the vote. Secondly, a few months earlier he himself had sponsored a resolution that declared the IRG as a terrorist group, the main thrust of the Kyle Lieberman amendment. and he never, NEVER voiced opposition to that amendment – NOT EVEN ONCE – either before the vote, during the vote or immediately after the vote.

    And this is an issue because of what Bush might or might not do with a non-binding resolution ? As if he listens to Congress anyway ??!!

    Obama is “George Bush 2000” in this election – campaign on platitudes since you dont have any record worth showing. I swear I just cant believe that people are falling for a snake oil salesman all over again. As terrondt said earlier – I just hope he and supporters go down in humiliating defeat come Feb ..

  175. I don’t think her team will go on personal attacks. I am sure that there will be issue based attacks on his positions. I doubt it is going to change minds of any Iowans, a surprisingly high amount of whom think that a woman is not supposed to be running for president.

  176. well, this is what i got:

    1/3 of them don’t even really care about what they’re doing.
    while “he who must not be named” does sponsor and stuff, the trips are organized by leaders in each High School and or College. I’m friends with two of the sub-leaders for my high school (one of whom is a sophomore). They recruit extra people, call to arrange buses from or through the Obama campaign, and pick out food stuffs/set up schedules. They also interview new people to root out any timid or strange folks.
    There were reminders to boo for “certain candidates” that were instructed to one section of the bus during the ride.
    Some college students have put off school in chicago and such to work full time or part time for O-man in Iowa. And they are, indeed, looking for a way to get to Iowa Caucus. Not sure if O-man himself is involved.
    Th

  177. AmericanGirl — Here is my take. The media has elevated him to Saint Barack status.

    Nobody examines what he says critically, or even if his positions have remained reasonably consistent. Take for example, the retroactivity on crack-cocaine sentencing that mj is upset about. In August, he told the NABJ that he didn’t think political capital should be wasted on sentencing reform on the issue. Now he’s for retroactive release? Very inconsistent.

    I think her campaign is being way too polite.

    What Obama takes advantage of is the knowledge that Democrats worry about alienating his black supporters. Bottom line is that attacks needs to come externally, not from a party that depends heavily on the black vote in the GE.

  178. the national, 1st states polls are really tightening up. this is a real trend. i don’t want to really pull a lever or fill in a oval next to this punk’s name in november. i badly don’t.

  179. btw, trying to tell any extreme-Obama supporters about his anti-gay thing is very pointless. while sitting on the bus, i felt like I was on the junior-high-school version of a republican fiesta. A lot of “fag this” and “tear that bitch down” and stuff like that. 🙁

    and about the only thing i could question any of them into saying that was “good” about BIll CLinton’s terms was that he was “slightly” better than Bush. lol

  180. i agree, hillary has no reason not to kick some ass…
    i love hillary, you know that, but i have been very disappointed with her campaign…
    and actually a little, how do i say this? concerned with their inability to take on these two clowns. seriously, i can say this to you guys because you feel my pain…
    though you may not agree.
    i may not be on any of her campaigns, but i spend hours everyday, under many names, putting in my 20cents, and frankly, i am a little dismayed that we are doing all the fighting.
    i mean seriously, and dont get mad at me here,
    WHO THE HELL READS FACT HUB BESIDES HILLARY FANS?
    COME ON PEOPLE…

    so yeah, i mean this is how whats his face got swiftboated, and frankly, hillary is getting so swiftboated, on air, in print, online, and live…
    really, its to pathetic…
    we always say shes been fighting for 15years, well i dont know what to say… this just rolling over thing leaves me speechless…

  181. MJS — so, what were your interview questions?

    Glad to see that you didn’t trigger any ‘timid’ or ‘strange’ alarms 🙂

  182. MJS: A lot of “fag this” and “tear that bitch down” and stuff like that.

    I believe it. There was an article recently about the anti-Hillary Facebook stuff that’s rooted in misogyny. Lot of “Stop Running For President and Make Me a Sandwich” type garbage. Sadly, this is what powers the Obama campaign.

  183. united 12, I agree, but she’s running against every candidate in every party and the media. That’s alot for one candidate.

  184. HLR,

    i was asked stuff like:

    “so, how long have you known or been favorable towards Obama?”
    “what’s your favorite Obama slogan?”
    “What do you NOT like about *the bitch*?” lol
    “do you know how to stick posters on walls?” 😀
    “how often can you come? When are you available?”
    “What size t-shirt do you want?”
    “Are you willing to carpool for the Obama Campaign in case of extraordinary cases in Iowa?”

    LOL

    and Yeah, I don’t think I’m strange…or at least i tried to act like I wasn’t a toal Hillary Fan 😀

  185. If she is seen as the “most negative”, seriously people, there’s something wrong here. Where the hell do these people get their news or their brains from ? Here she is being attacked relentlessly and she has never launched any personal attack against any of them. That punk repeats repug talking points against her all the time – “I dont have any long standing ambition and dont assume the presidency is owed to me” – a**h**e !!

    And these guys think she is the most negative ?!! I am so pissed off …

  186. Guys, let’s all be levelheaded. There is still a month, and remember, the public has a very short attention-span. Any slip-ups by Obama or Edwards (which are very possible…or at least from Obama) means a dying campaign. Hillary has done a lot of *on-the-ground* stuff and other campaign work which I’m sure will end up surprising a lot of people. I mean, this is the woman who won New York over! I have full confidence in her…as well as full confidence in the in-eptitude and ultimately failing campaigns of both Bambi Boy and Edwee.

  187. the article that we read up near the top of the post, about all the young bloggers, and all the really disgusting, feral, psychotic stuff they say about hillary, is totally true.

    and it inflames the F-ck out of me… not just because i hate to hear people talking about this innocent person this way,
    BUT MAINLY BECAUSE, IT IS SO INCREDIBLY, ANTI WOMAN, SO THOUROGHLY MAIL DOMINANT HATRED AGAINST A WOMAN, AND IT IS INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS…

    WOMAN SHOULD BE TOLD WHAT OBAMA AND EDWARDS HAS STARTED AND ENCOURAGED MALES, AND EVEN WOMEN TO DO AGAINST A MIDDLE AGED WOMAN AND MOTHER, AND CITIZEN OF AMERICA…

    FOR THIS REASON ALONE THEY SHOULD BE REVEALED TO WOMEN IN AMERICA…
    HILLARY SHOULD SAY WHAT IS HAPPENING IN SECRET IN
    HIS ELECTION, BECAUSE I GAURANTEE IF WOMEN KNEW WHAT THE MALES IN THIS ELECTION AND OTHERS CAMPAIGNS ARE INCITING AGAINST WOMEN KIND, THEY MIGHT BE APPALLED…

  188. double agent..lol yeah its good ..i think bill needs to be with her in iowa all throughout now..and be by her side…and get a woman movement going some how…and bring barbra with ehr jfk..iowans love kennedys

  189. basically, terrondt. lol

    United, I think I’ve stumbled upon a sad truth. It is this:

    the youth of my generation and those after and a little bit before me are becoming increasingly anti-feminist. Where as those in there 30s and beyond lived and were influenced in/by a time devoted towards civil rights, women’s rights, and equal rights, our times are characterized by hip hop songs singing about sluts, hoes, and money in da bank.

    we have no Beatles or Elvises or whatever else. We mostly listen to 50 cent and Jay Z and the likes. Culture itself has very much so influenced our views of women’s place in the society. AS much as some may

  190. If I were a middle aged Iowa voter watching Obama’s circus maximus descend on my state, I would have an extremely adverse reaction.

    First, I would resent the fact that a mob of out of state college students were being bussed into Iowa by one candidate, to create a ruckus, to tell me how to vote, and to control our caucus.

    Second, I would be insulted to learn that the same candidate has previously cast aspersions on the judgement of people over 50. And when his minions tried to assure me that he was joking, I would tell them that I was not amused.

    Third, I would see through the transparent efforts by that candidate to divert attention from the real issues of this campaign, and his gaping lack of experience, by bringing in a super wealthy celebrity to spearhead his campaign.

    In such circumstances I just might be tempted to tell that highly manipulative candidate and his
    benighted mob where to go. And then I would do the right thing and vote for Hillary. Yes, that’s what I’d do, if it were me.

  191. she is not doing it with 15 years which i agree,but everyone against her,and letting these clowns take contorl she cant let that happen..and get on every issue,every policy..her health care and a new theme,she is smrt and clever she has to hit back and bill too…hes gonna be a first gentleman,so i think he should have his say just like oprah and mrs edwards…go after them

  192. *cont’d

    as much as some may deny being anti-feminist, I see more and more of it everyday. Girls may actually be going more places, in more jobs, college, etc, but the overall feeling from their male peers is one of superiority.

    We play video games like grand-theft auto. Watch music videos with an “inferior” female(s) and listen to MSM which is populated by ego-inflated, big-headed, male chauvinistic dicks and their female wannabe-slaves.

    It’s sick, but I believe the country is heading on a reversal of values and civil beliefs.

  193. ah yes, the life of a die hard hillary supporter is going to test the endurance physically and mentally over the next year. i think now i understand what kostner was saying a few days ago about taking down time off the day to day blogging and closely following the race. it’s like the mob, i can’t get out becuase hillary will pull me back in.LOL.

  194. Wow, United 12… I just wrote a very similar comment and sent it off to the Hillary campaign a short while ago! I also commented about the Fact Hub not being read by everyday people–they need to get their messages out in a different way.

    HillaryLandRocks: female voters are also a core of the Democratic party but that hasn’t stopped Obama himself from directly attacking Hillary. Her character is being assaulted daily by his campaign. I don’t think that legitimate questioning of his words, statements or actions should be avoided because he is black. If she really is the candidate of experience (which is absolutely true) then she must let voters know the truth of what he is doing and saying and it’s potential impact. She also has a right to defend herself. The character attacks are not OK and frankly I think she should come right out and tell this to voters. Get it out in the open and address it. Obama is running for the most powerful political office in our country. Someone has to bring attention to who he is…unfortunately that may have to be Hillary herself.

  195. she also needs to make speeches to us and point out thsoe facts live on her site…front page,conversation with us…and call him out on it on her site

  196. LOOK, ITS JUST NOT A GOOD IDEA TO WRITE OFF ‘IO-WHAT’, ANYMORE.

    when they found a way to make her bleed during that fateful debate, they turned into absolutly soulless presidential candidates…

    and they have gone above and beyond what anyone but a republican, would do to both a fellow democrat and towards a woman…
    she needs take control of her people, and use what she’s got…

    she should say i’m a woman, and that is a great advantage, and since the whole hostage thing, she needs to come out and speak about all the
    nasty anti-woman statements that are going wild…
    she needs to use it, or lose it…

    its bleeding into other states, its like a virus, if she does not speak out about what has happened to her, no one will have either shame, or respect…

  197. i agree with this-Hillary and Dodd must continue their push for a clean caucus night. she must highlight what we know-this does several things. it would help show a corrupt side of obama. it would help stiffle his rise. it needs to be pushed thru caucus night. obama uses the politis of tom delay and rove. yep-and some of our own wont believe this. hillary i dont think will go nuclear directly. it will be some other way.

  198. and when hillary “goes after obama-punk”i don’t give a damn about her rivals,big media,daily kooks, and far lefty blogs crying about her being so called negative. she has been getting the treatment from the far right as well as left all year long. let the a**holes cry all they want. screw em.

  199. yep she needs to push that in iowa texan and dodd also,swiftboat them 2 out..and point out edwards takings sides with bo..on that min waged thing,9.50 what bussinees is gonna pay that for help in convince stores,grocerys,resturants..etc.

  200. I agree completely United 12. I don’t understand why her campaign seems so timid of late. Are they so afraid of the negatives that have been stuck to her they don’t want to do anything? They need to get out and communicate which is something they are doing weakly at present. Yet, we can see when she does fight back people cheer. They ought to pay attention to that..

  201. AG: female voters are also a core of the Democratic party

    But the planned storyline is that Oprah will take away Hillary’s advantage here, not Obama.

    Similarly, if/when Hillary strikes, it really shouldn’t come directly from her.

  202. OH AND GUESS WHAT?

    THIS IS HOW SHE COULD DO IT; SHE COULD SAY:

    IN THE VIEW OF THE RECENT IN NH, AND DUE TO THE FACT THAT THERE ARE MANY WOMEN WORKING FOR HER, IT IS TIME FOR HER TO SPEAK ABOUT A SUBJECT, THAT HAS PREVIOUSLY BEEN OF GREAT CONCERN TO HER. SHE MUST SADLY MAKE IT KNOWN THAT THERE HAS BEEN SOME VERY, UNSAVORY, UNHOLSOM, AND TROUBLING MOVEMENTS, AGAINST HERSELF, ALL SEEMINGLY DUE TO THE FACT THAT SHE IS A WOMAN, AND THAT WAS DISSAPOINTING, BUT SHE WAS WILLING TO KEEP IT TO HERSELF, BUT NOW IN THE INTEREST OF SAFETY OF ALL WOMEN ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, IT IS TIME TO SPEAK ABOUT THE MATTER…

  203. TexanforHillary..I think you are right on the money. This issue shows that Obama will do anything to win and is a mistake by his campaign.

  204. HillaryLandRocks–I am understanding now that Hillary can’t directly attack. But I’m not talking smears, I just think the campaign need to be more aggressive about questioning Obamas words and deeds. If other people need to do this they need to get on the ball and get people out there doing that in a more public manner and in the MSM.

  205. Everyone just needs to sit tight and see how things play out for a few days.

    Iowa is going through a freak out period right now. I mean…look at Huckabee’s numbers. He hasn’t set foot in the state in over a month. He has no organization knocking on doors. And, he hasn’t run an ad. Why the movement? Iowa’s in election overload and bouncing around like a kindergarten on caffeine and sugar.

    Clinton has taken a solid month of negative attacks from the Republicans, Dems, and media and is still in a statistical dead heat.

    I don’t know how much ammo they’ve got left for her.

    I would recommend three issues for her:

    a) continue with the health care attacks

    b) hit Obama on drivers licenses for illegal immigrants. That is a MAJOR loser for him.

    c) hit with a commander-in-chief ad. Who do you want in the oval office if there is another 9-11?

  206. Sorry, cross-post, I mean the comment by united 12.

    I’m not worried. there have been some interesting stories about obama lately. I’m surprised about the number of people from Illinois going there and wonder how many of them are at his events as well? I remember the Dean campaign and he always had huge crowds but that wasn’t what counted. recent des moines register poll has obama ahead but hillary winning the older voters who are the ones who will be at caucus. the upcoming debates should be interesting!

  207. HWC, I’m worried about the tightening in NH, and then the media love fest that is about to ensue with the new numbers. Have you been to NH at all lately? I remember you were there over the summer.

  208. to: another_reader:

    Obama indeed DOES send his supporters from IL and Chicago to his rallies, speeches, etc to “juice up” the crowd, so to speak.

  209. CAN WE HAVE OUR OWN VIRAL VIDEOS TALKING TO WOMEN SAYING WE ARE SICK AND TIRED OF WHAT IS GOING ON, AND WE WANT THE TRUTH TO COME OUT…

    IF WE TELL SOME OF THE OBSCENE PSYCHOTIC THINGS AND WORDS SAID ABOUT A WOMEN…
    IF WE SAY WE BELIEVE THAT THE TWO YOUNG MALE CANDIDATES, HAVE NOT ONLY STARTED THIS, BUT HAVE FUELED THIS MOVEMENT, WOULD THAT BE BAD?

    I MEAN LETS FACE IT… I DONT BELONG TO THE HILLARY CAMPAIGN, BUT I AM A WOMAN, AND I HAVE A RIGHT TO SPEAK OUT DONT I?

  210. as far as looking like a commander-in-chief I think hillary showed that she did on friday and that is enough, it’s terrible what happened and at the same time, beyond that, the media would treat it as a test of crisis management and she came through.

    anyone read maureen dowd column on obama? it’s odd. halperin at the page calls it a positive piece but i certainly didn’t read it that way (it made me wonder if he read it closely at all) – a child prodigy is presidential? no.

  211. On another tangent (I know it’s getting late but…) Haven’t polls in states changed dramatically even a day or two before a primary or caucus? Or historically do they stay relatively stable on the eve of the primary? I am not as educated as you all are on politics but it seems to me (thinking back to past elections) that things can change even in the matter of a few hours. If that’s so, even Obama being slightly ahead doesn’t mean it will be the outcome. I would think for that reason alone Hillary needs to continue campaigning in Iowa, even if they decide not to spend huge sums of mony there..

    Note: I haven’t been seeing a lot of Hillary ads in Minnesota recently. There are tons for Obama. Is she saving money for a big ad flurry down the road?

  212. guys, i think what’s most important right now is to NOT focus on Iowa.
    Anyone who can, and is capable of contacting others needs to get more people into New Hampshire and South Carolina. Hillary is already pouring a massive amount of support into Iowa, but I think, to a lost cause. That state is, in the end i believe, going to select John Edwards.

    We need to prepare for the action ahead. Screw Iowa.

  213. hwc–I think your list is great. I hope Hillary does focus on those issues. I would add the out of state college students as number 4.

  214. United 12

    i think we should do some very active and attention-grabbing Youtube videos.
    remember that uber-publicized “i love barack” video? lol. we need stuff like this to catch the media attention….but in a good way….

    like…bring about any bad qualities to Barack or so (in a polite and dignified way) and state clearly and reasonably why you support Hillary. If we can get 100-200 videos up, it will certainly catch the media’s attention!

  215. ANOTHER READER,

    KNOW WHAT? WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, ITS THAT EXACT THINKING THAT HAS GOT HER IN THIS PLACE IN THE FIRST PLACE…

    I THINK SHE NEEDS BETTER ADVICE, CAUSE THAT WAS SAID LAST MONTH, AND LAST WEEK, AND THE WEEK BEFORE, AND GUESS WHAT?

    IT HASN’T TURNED AROUND…
    NO INFACT IT HAS BECOME A SNOWBALL…

    PEOPLE ARE GOING TO THINK OUR GIRL CANT FIGHT WITH THE BIG BOYS…
    OH YES ITS TRUE,
    ITS BECOMING A MOVEMENT… STOP THE BLEEDING…

    TIME TO STOP THAT ‘TURN THE OTHER CHEEK’ THING…
    SHE’S ONLY RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, NOT SAVIOR…

    AND ITS WORTH FIGHTING FOR, KEY WORD: FIGHT

  216. united 12, yes, i think it would be counterproductive. just my opinion. but, if i’m not mistaken the spell of bad press (it had to happen eventually) kicked off when the media conflated the “politics of pile on” video with her encouraging speech at wellesley into “she’s playing the victim.”

    i think we can (and should) trust that women will pick up on the dynamics here as far as biased attacks on hillary, which some are (chris matthews i’m talking to you!). as far as anti-hillary screeds on the internet, i think it’s better not to give them attention they don’t deserve. there’s hate all over the internet.

  217. WELL I DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO MY COMMENT, AND THIS ONE WILL PROBABLY DISAPPEAR AS WELL,
    BUT ANOTHER READER, I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAY…
    THIS COUNTER PRODUCTIVE LINE, HAS BEEN HEARD HERE SO OFTEN, ALONG WITH NO NEW NEWS, ITS ALL STATUS QUO…

    FRANKLY ITS AMAZING, AND WHY WOULD YOU EVER THINK THAT WOMEN WILL KNOW WHATS GOING ON?
    NO I DONT TRUST THEM TO GET THE NEWS, EVERYDAY WOMEN DONT FOLLOW HILLARYS BUSINESS LIKE WE DO…

    BIG MISTAKE, AND IF YOU AND I FIND HER ‘PRESIDENTIAL’, ITS NO WONDER, WE ARE ON THIS SITE AFTER ALL…
    BUT AN INCREASING NUMBER OF PEOPLE ARE FINDING OB PRESIDENTIAL, THANKS TO A HELL OF ALOT OF BACK STABBING AND APPARENTLY, HUNGRY ADVISORS ON THE OTHER SIDE.

  218. AND YES MJS, I CAN FLY ANYWHERE, IF WE GET A GROUP OF WOMEN TOGETHER WHO WANT TO DO A VIRAL VIDEO, I AM THERE, I WILL FLY OUT AND WE CAN GET SOME DONE…

    LET ME KNOW IF YOU ARE INTERESTED…

    OH IF YOU WANT TO COME OUT TO CALIFORNIA, I’LL HAVE SOME OF MY FRIENDS DO IT FOR US… K?

  219. mjs, i completely understand your comment about leaving iowa, but iowa is a close 3 way race. i do believe hillary should not break the bank to try winning it.

  220. I disagree w/ most of you. I think she should push IA hard. An IA win ends all the nonsense, and we’ve seen how unpredictable things can be.

    I believe the 3 pts behind Obama is about right. That’s nothing. This race is still very winnable.

  221. I agree, HLR. I wish I were there right now. I’d love to ty to get my arms around what the heck is going on there.

  222. Haven’t polls in states changed dramatically even a day or two before a primary or caucus?

    in 2004 kerry started trending up very near to the caucus, not a month out, 2 weeks maybe. i’m no expert. i trust that hillary’s team know exactly what they are doing as far as the timing goes. it’s better to have low expectations for iowa and then surprise. i know obama gets a lot of hype but when you get right down to it, he doesn’t have the experience, he makes a fair number of gaffes (drip drip drip – they add up), he has taken positions that would probably doom him in the general election.

    i think the oprah thing will hurt, coming after all the talk about illinois people coming in to influence the caucuses, and anyway he needs cred on experience, not on celebrity.

  223. AS FOR THE COMMENT THAT AFTER THE DEBATE THEY USED HER COMMENT ABOUT THE BOYS CLUB AGAINST HER.

    THAT WAS A NO BRAINER…
    WE COULD HAVE SEEN THAT ONE COMING A MILE AWAY…
    WHEN HER CAMPAIGN, BACKED OFF, AND STARTED THE ‘I KNOW IT WASNT BECAUSE I’M A WOMEN’ THING, SHE IMMEDIATELY CRIED ‘UNCLE’ IN THE FIGURATIVE SENSE..

    AND I DONT MIND SAYING SO, AND I HOPE SOMEONE WILL READ THIS AND TELL HER I SAID SO…

    RIGHT IS RIGHT, TRUTH IS TRUTH, SHE SHOULD HAVE STUCK TO WHAT SHE SAID, AND DARED THEM TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT !!!

    LOOK WHAT HAPPENED IN VEGAS, SHE REDEEMED HERSELF, WHEN SHE STOOD UP AND TOOK THE FIGHT TO THEM…

  224. another –reader ..chris matthews yep another hater towards people and hillary…his hate for her …oboba hates her edwards ,…i think so much hate they spread makes them look bad and there familys and really bad for America .and the world you bet canada and germany,there watching all of this..hating someone for no reason hillary hasn’t done anything against anyone…so there all corrupt there all politicians,and if they dont think bo is corrupt and all the rest then there stupidity is lower they dont want to open there eyes for truth..i can see it when he first came out of no where.
    there is so much hate,
    from msm there terrible shawn hannity terrible how can they live hating when it comes to politics
    from bo towards her,
    and still to this day hillary doesn’t hate anyone
    do we want Presidents who have hate like this
    attacking her Character what about theres
    ego men sexist remarks,now they started this crap
    he doesnt even vote,john ed they called him senator today hes not a elected senator.

    one thing i got to say dont let anyone,main stream media ,bloggers,politics sites influence anyone
    every person needs to go to the canidates websites and look at the person to vote for..this hate has been going on since tim russert,this philly debate is gone and over,trickery was used.I see axlerod to he has hate inside him,david plouffle its hate,is this a race card there playing i beggining to wonder…these are my opinions ..I will elect myself for my vote no one else can persude me…this has been going on all year,it was way to early to start a presidential race this is what happens hate…

    she needs to talk about it…
    theres your ad for ya some points for ya 100 200 video thats is excellent come on you guys i am newcomer ,and learn from you people…you people should work inside her campaign..lol

    and i know for a fact alott of people come here and read here…its sad to have hate like this in America no wonder no other country likes us.
    I selcted Hillary for my values here in America,she inspires me,i work ,we have a lady to run who works hard,its the way i feel…she is like me..hard worker.them men are spreading hate,see it in there faces there angry for power.

  225. sorry united 12!! no offense meant! i tried to post other days here and it ate all my posts i think, they just vanished when i tried, so i gave up now, it seems to work.

    i think my biggest feeling is that what is really happening in iowa is probably not easy to see in the media or in the polls or on the blogs. that’s a lot of noise. stuff happening with obama reminds me of dean. it’s the cool thing to support them, they have a lot of pep rallies, a lot of outside supporters coming in to iowa, and a steady trickle of small gaffes that sort of plant doubt in people’s minds bit by bit – can this person really beat the republicans? hillary has hit some rough patches in media coverage but no gaffes that make you wonder, can she really be president?

  226. i started supporting hillary because of a small drip, drip, drip effect of little positive stories i started seeing in the media, they just added up some how, there wasn’t any watershed moment. 🙂 but there are a lot of little stories. and i see her sticking to releasing policies on so many issues and i bet even though the media doesn’t pay attention, people interested in those things pay attention.

    mark penn and his microtrends! but on daily kos i read a diary about someone upset that obama said he might cut NASA budget to fund education programs. i don’t know anything about space programs so i thought, whatever.. but all of a sudden people showed up to comment who knew a lot about it and were super interested, and one said, hillary is the one candidate who released a very good, detailed policy on the space program.

  227. MJS, you are awesome. I am typing up a set of talking points for callers in the office to use (Rezko, abortion in illinois senate, neocons, joe lieberman, michelle’s job, bussing, etc) when calling people. This state is so frustrating, I live here. MJS, God bless ya for doin that. You are brave. These obama people are some idiotic lunatics, so I commend you for shackin’ up w/ them 🙂

  228. dowd –> (remove spaces)

    http:// http://www.nytimes.com/ 2007/12/02/opinion/02dowd.html

    “He seems more like a child prodigy. Those enraptured with his gifts urge him on, like anxious parents, trying to pull that sustained, dazzling performance out of him that they believe he’s capable of; they are willing to put up with the prodigy’s occasional listlessness and crabbiness, his flights of self-regard and self-righteousness. Despite his uneven efforts and distaste for the claws of competition, they can see he is a golden child, one who moves, speaks, smiles and thinks with amazing grace.”

    anxious parents. not good! i don’t dislike him but i don’t think he can ever beat the republicans.

  229. Dowd: “He seems more like a child prodigy. Those enraptured with his gifts urge him on, like anxious parents, trying to pull that sustained, dazzling performance out of him that they believe he’s capable of; they are willing to put up with the prodigy’s occasional listlessness and crabbiness, his flights of self-regard and self-righteousness. Despite his uneven efforts and distaste for the claws of competition, they can see he is a golden child, one who moves, speaks, smiles and thinks with amazing grace.”

    anxious parents?? uh-oh. i don’t dislike obama but he can’t beat the republicans.

  230. mj — let’s look at what is really going on.

    First of all, about the retroactive policy on sentencing. That’s very interesting. I wish I’d been able to see the debate to judge for myself. In essence, roles are getting reversed. Up until now, it’s been Obama who has been very conservative on these issues — as I mentioned, he told the NABJ that he didn’t even think it wise to waste political capital on sentencing reform, period.

    What I’m sensing is the following — IA has been elevated to crucial status by her opponents — first Edwards, then Obama followed as he couldn’t catch on fire nationwide.

    I’m not sure that differentiating herself from ALL of the others today is such a bad thing for IA (although I’m with you in terms of policy preference). And having La Raza boo her at that Heartland sham:

    Hillary got booed pretty vociferously just now during her phone-in to the Heartland Presidential Forum, which is being hosted by the Center for Community Change, an umbrella of left-leaning community organizing groups whose board includes representatives from the SEIU and the National Council of La Raza.

    Well, let Obama put La Raza on the transition team to shape the agenda.

    Let’s see how this plays out in IA.

  231. It’s very late but I want to say that everyone here is just fabulous. A person can learn so much from this website, not only about Hillary but about American politics in general. Also, the intelligent and civil tone is a such welcome relief from the shouting and obnoxious debate seen on so many other sites. Kudos to you admin for setting up such a place. It’s the only site I have found on the internet that allows you to be supportive, rational and informative about your candidate without things dissolving into a partisan rant site. A++

  232. Honestly, I don’t believe Hillary has lost even one vote over Iran. I’m betting the poll is going to prove to be anomolous.

    Don’t sweat it, folks. All you can do is work your ass off and talk to people. We get the government we deserve, and if people want Obama, then we know more about what kind of nation we have reduced ourself to.

    Personally, I think she’s going to win Iowa. Not by much, but I think she’s going to win.

  233. Hey y’all, I agree with the sentiments here. I appreciate the generational perspective. It is what I have come to suspect of younger people, in terms of the shifts in values and material culture. It’s an extremely sad day to me to hear of these extremely vitriolic, mean-spirited words aimed at Hillary and her campaign. Words have a power of their own once they are put out there on posters, on the net, in rap or songs or whatever. Once it’s okay to call a woman a c*)_ but still using the n word. THese aren’t acceptable. They are hate speech and hate speech breeds hateful behavior. What it says to me is that there is still a deep seeded resentment of women in our society. Again, I am not surprised to learn this. Many of my African-American women friends have told me that ethnicity and race are much more important to them than sexism. I can understand, because of the history there, I just think it enlightens the situation that is currently going on. What I think is this: the best way to deal with the unacceptable is to call it out. It has to be called out. I think we are in the situation we are in because sexism has not been called out.

  234. ANOTHER READER,

    HERE IS MY POINT, IT ISNT ABOUT IOWA ANYMORE, THIS IS ABOUT THE TRASH THAT JE, OB HAVE PERSONALLY STARTED, WOULD THEY WANT ANYONE TO TALK ABOUT THIER WIVES IN THIS FASHION?

    THEIR FOLLOWERS ARE CALLING THIS DIGNIFIED WOMAN WHO HAS SERVED HER COUNTRY A C–T…
    MANY MANY TIMES…
    THEY TALK ABOUT REALLY NASTY, FILTHY, DEGRADING THINGS…
    NOW I ASK YOU, DOES OB OR JE GET A FREE PASS IN VIEW OF WHAT THEY HAVE INCITED?

    DO WE STAND HERE AS WOMEN IN AMERICA, AND LET OUR TONGUES BE SILENT, IN THE FACE OF THIS ANTI WOMAN MOVEMENT?

    DO WE FORGET THAT HILLARY AND HER FELLOW FIGHTERS IN THE 60 FOUGHT FOR JUST THIS VERY THING?

    OH YES THEY DID, HERE IS WHAT JFK, MARTIN LUTHER, BOBBY, AND MANY OTHERS INCLUDING YOUNG HILLARY FOUGHT FOR:

    WOMENS RIGHTS
    CIVIL RIGHTS
    WORKERS RIGHTS
    WORK SAFETY LAWS
    MINIMUM WAGE LAWS
    CHILD LABOR LAWS
    UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
    40 HOUR WORK WEEKS
    EMPLOYEE PENSION PLANS
    CHILD CARE
    PAID FAMILY MEDICAL LEAVE
    ANTI DISCRIMINATION LAWS
    OVERTIME PAY
    SOCIAL SECURITY
    UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
    MEDICAL PRIVACY ACT
    NON SEXUAL HARASSMENT

    THIS IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN JUST IOWA
    THIS IS DISCRIMINATION AGAINST A FEMALE, AS WELL AS SEXUAL HARASSMENT…
    AND I AM FRANKLY APPALED AND SICK TO HELL OF IT ALL…
    THIS IS NOT SOMETHING OUR CANDIDATES FOR PRESIDENT SHOULD BE INVOLVED IN… BUT THEY ARE…

    SO WHY ARE WE LETTING THEM DO THIS TO US, WE FOUGHT FOR WOMENS RIGHTS, THAT INCLUDES HILLARYS RIGHTS AS WELL.

    IT SENDS A VERY BAD MESSAGE, AND MEN ALL OVER ARE TAKING UP THE BANNER… ITS NOT RIGHT

  235. speaking of little stories i don’t know why there isn’t any big story and wish one would show up about hillary’s speech in china in 1995 and founding of vital voices. that’s a pretty big deal but doesn’t get mentioned a lot now, people don’t know about it (i was young and not paying attention then, and i am 30.) of course again i trust that hillary’s team is five steps ahead and probably a lot of positive stories will come out in the next few weeks before iowa and i know she will do great at the debate, she always does.

  236. he told the NABJ that he didn’t even think it wise to waste political capital on sentencing reform, period.

    interesting. link? did he just say the opposite thing today?

  237. basement angel — I think she’s going for Edwards voters myself, older & more conservative to beef up her ‘regular caucus-goers’.

    Another thing, all — if the weather’s bad early Jan, it’ll put a real cramp into the bus convoys … I’ll laugh so hard if the news reports blizzards and buses stuck on the side of the road in Illinois.

  238. HillaryLandRocks, first, I can not believe what you just said about sentencing guidelines. I had no idea.

    In retrospect, I think you are quite right. I also think there was alot of smearing in Iowa last couple of months. That waitress, and the “plant” girl. I don’t think those stories were any accident. And, I don’t think it was an accident that they were women. I think the voters will still come home to Hillary. the poll did say people found her most presidential. And, even one of Obama’s diehard supporters told me she’d rather be voting for someone more experienced. I just do wish I were with Celiff in Iowa fighting the good fight. You folks in Iowa and NH are our hero’s.

  239. In ’04 Kerry was in 3rd place and Edwards in 4th 9 days out. The flip happened in that 9 days. Gephardt dropped 26% and Dean dropped 20%. That’s what I call free-fall and it hasn’t happened yet this cycle.

  240. another_reader:

    That vacillation became evident as he kept talking about crack-vs.-powder sentencing, which has come to symbolize racial injustice in criminal justice. He said that if he were to become president, he would support a commission to issue a report “that allows me to say that based on the expert evidence, this is not working and it’s unfair and unjust. Then I would move legislation forward.”

    That was a puzzling statement because the US Sentencing Commission, created by Congress in 1984, has long said the system is not working and reaffirmed in April that the 100-to-1 ratio “significantly undermines” sentencing reform.

    Obama asked if he could make a “broader” point. “Even if we fix this, if it was a 1-to-1 ratio, it’s still a problem that folks are selling crack. It’s still a problem that our young men are in a situation where they believe the only recourse for them is the drug trade. So there is a balancing act that has to be done in terms of, do we want to spend all our political capital on a very difficult issue that doesn’t get at some of the underlying issues; whether we want to spend more of that political capital getting early childhood education in place, getting after-school programs in place, getting summer school programs in place.”

    By asking an open question about spending “all our political capital” on eliminating the 100-to-1 ratio, that raises the possibility he will spend little or none on it. By talking about a “broader” prescription of early childhood school programs — which means nothing to a 17-year-old in jail– Obama risks flashing a losing card of being nonconfrontational.

    http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2007/08/15/obamas_caution_on_drug_sentencing/

    Derrick Z Jackson has been writing on the issue for a long time.

    Obama has gone from being ambivalent, at best, on the core issues, to advocating for retroactive sentencing. I think he was just pandering today, myself — he’s focused on winning the Dem primary.

  241. Here’s the thing. Obama is now the “inevitable front-runner”. And, he will get the scrutiny of an “inevitable front-runner”. Now, voters have to really confront the idea of the state legislator being commander-in-chief for real.

    BTW, I think Oprah will kill Obama in New Hampshire. New Hampshire is the polar opposite of Hollywood. New Hampshire people wear workboots, down vests, and trudge around in the snow. It’s a serious, practical, curmudgeonly place.

    Paul Tsongas? Yeah. Michael Dukakis? Yeah. John McCain? Yeah. Oprah frickin’ Winfrey? I don’t think so.

  242. I trust Hillary’s team knows what it is doing. The timing of the bussed in voters stories and Oprah coming to town next week means the actual IA caucus folks will get pissed others are meddling in their affairs. Watch the trend. Also, she”ll get a nice bump in the next few weeks over how well she handled yesterday’s events. The CW is she was graceful under fire, presidential, poised, etc.. That’s much different from a cranky, sycophant loving child prodigy (which is a stretch BTW).

    I suspect the endorsement will be Bloomberg. BFD IMHO. The man has a long history of being sued for sexual harassment. He also flip flops on party affiliation which may turn off yellow dogs.

    Hey United, can you please stop the shouting? It takes up a lot of room and is difficult to read.

  243. united 12,

    Please undo your caps lock. Writing in all upper case font style is difficult to read and a bit annoying. Thanks.

  244. BTW- I turned out an Edwards and an Obama supporter this week. Give us two more in the Big Pink column.

    Remember folks, just keep talking, keep educated about the differences in policy, issues, personality and experience. And above all else, try to be positive even when the MSM spins things badly. We can fight back appropriately, but being pissy here does nothing to help our girl.

  245. Politico just called and wants an interview. I was at the office and we went out to a bar and grill afterwards and discussed BO’s unelectability. The women in our office our amazing. There’s one from out of state that worked for Emily’s List, one from Ohio, one from Califorrnia that worked for a congress woman, and one from Michigan. These are just the 4 I went to dinner with tonight. There are a total 8 women in our office as staffers, and 10 men, 5 of which are gay 🙂

    Our office is awesome. I think we are going to work extra hard coming up these next few weeks, despite this terrible weather. The snow here is about 1 foot, it is raining, so it will ice over, there’s power out in some parts of town, the internet has slowed down, the wind is terrible, slush is everywhere in the streets and sidewalks, and it will only get worse. Those Chicago busses may get stuck in rural Illinois afterall if old man winter has anything to say about this.

  246. Well if the surprise endorsement is Bloomberg and he’s been involved in sexual harassment that kind of fits the trendline here, doesn’t it? I do expect, as you do Okie, that we should see a bounce because of the way she handled the crisis. It is an incredible strength she has and everybody who knows her knows it. She’s one of those people that you want in charge when things go to hell in a handcart.

  247. Anyone else see the positive write-up on Hillary’s handling of yesterday and how she went to ground for the victims and their families? She could have just been AWOL, but she worked her tail off reuniting victims and their folks after the event. It wasn’t calculating. It was just the right thing to do which I have faith she will always do when she wins this race and is sworn in as POTUS.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3941064&page=1

  248. The snow here is about 1 foot, it is raining, so it will ice over, there’s power out in some parts of town, the internet has slowed down, the wind is terrible, slush is everywhere in the streets and sidewalks, and it will only get worse.

    Haven’t received my assignment yet, but let me say: I’m ready!

  249. MollyJ, I know what you mean. Crisis management is not a learned skill. You wither have it or you don’t. She has it in spades. We all know she is highly organized and disciplined, but she has a natural talent for just doing the right thing. She missed out on her DNC speech yesterday which may have proved useful in shoring up party support. She opted to work all day staying in touch with the right folks, offering her help where she could and letting the folks in law enforcement do their jobs. That’s a good CEO for you.

    I know Rudy has said she’s never run anything- not a business, not a city, never made payroll, but he’s dead wrong. Besides, she doesn’t have Shag Fund hanging over her head. And she’s not ducking and hiding in her car when the press comes near her. I wonder what he’d do if Iran actually got aggressive. What? Hide? Or go AWOL like Bwak?

  250. mj: Yep. Decided just before TG after weeks of media BS. Slated for 12/26 – 1/4.

    A friend of mine sent me an email w/ an interesting theory: she thinks the endorsement will be Webb on MTP tomorrow.

    Discuss!

  251. good for you celiff. i have nothing against obama personally but i always thought it was just too soon for him to run. i was home talking to family at thanksgiving and several brought up the obama “foreign relations experience = being a kid in indonesia” – they made no mention of hillary, i think they just heard it off cable news.. they already don’t take him seriously

    stuff like that is why i am pretty worried about obama, he will not be able to win the general, there are too many of those kinds of comments out there and lots of people *already* know about them. they aren’t even tuned in as voters because our state is always blue and has a late primary, but the problem is, this is how he’s getting introduced to the nation, he never got around to defining himself. except saying he represents change. which lets the gop do their best to define any way they want what kind of change that would be.

  252. I really hope it is not Webb. That’s the last thing we need is him parading around talking about how awful Hill is, which I notice is mostly what Obama endorsers do. On the other, I really can’t see him exploiting his visit back from Iraq for that kind of political purpose.

  253. For whatever reason, the VA bunch is really anti-Hillary. I suspect she gets blamed for Mark Warner dropping out.

  254. talking about how awful Hill is, which I notice is mostly what Obama endorsers do.

    You’re right about that. In NJ, Rep Steve Rothman, who has endorsed Obama, made an ass out of himself at a Dem party meeting (might have been a J-J event) trashing Hillary — especially since she was in attendance and Obama was not.

  255. Crisis management is not a learned skill. You wither have it or you don’t. She has it in spades.

    The way she handled yesterday’s crisis reminded me of the story of how she picked up the endorsement of one of George Bush’s big fundraisers. I can’t remember the guy’s name. Big division vice-president at Goldman Sachs or whatever.

    Anyway, the guy was in New Orleans dropping his daughter off for freshman year at Tulane when Katrina hit, stranding him and his family in a downtown hotel. After a day of desperation, he called his Senator’s office in New York — Clinton. Clinton’s staff couldn’t arrange a way out for him, but they called him every few hours to check on him and his family, keep him updated, and so forth. He was so grateful that, when he finally got home to New York, he set up a dinner meeting to thank Hillary. One thing led to another and he and his wife endorsed her and became fundraisers. Lifelong Republicans who were won over by the competence of her staff.

    BTW, on Jim Webb: I think the guy is kookoo for cocoa puffs. That whole gun toting episode was squirrelly as hell. I’m happy to see him in the Senate, but he’s a loose cannon. I wouldn’t get within ten miles of him for a VP nod.

  256. For those of you traveling to, or working in – Iowa and New Hampshire: E-mail us a mailing address and we will send you some Hillary Is 44 buttons to distribute to all the wonderful Hillary supporters in those early states.

    admin@HillaryIs44.org

  257. HWC, what is your sense of NH? I was a bit disappointed to see the numbers had tightened to single digits in two polls. I’ve seen Obama’s commercials here and they are god awful. I am very surprised his attacks on Hillary are working in NH. I don’t know one Obama supporter myself, have not seen one sign, not one sticker, and I think a poll came out showing him losing big time here(in MA) to Giuliani with Hill cleaning house. So, being that we are neighbors with Nh, what’s your impression?

  258. we are working on phone banking iowa for hillary in the comming week. we are also organizing folks to come to iowa for battle. when i say we that is hillary’s cmte w/cong. lee in tx. as team hillary lead here i hope to have the phone thing launched asap…

  259. mj — I doubt I will drive due to the distance involved. I did call my state director at the national campaign to find out if are were other Hillary supporters in my area going, or if the campaign itself was organizing something Obama-style. I was told other people had called w/ similar questions. I gave permission for them to receive my email address, but I haven’t heard from them, so I gave up on the car pool idea.

    You will get directed to an application. Standard questions, but they request the date range you anticipate up front. They imply that they will probably find a place for you to crash. You get assigned to a particular office when you get your packet.

    I’m not posting the link and any specifics about the app b/c the email has one of those confidentiality blurbs as a footnote.

    I plan to contact Hillary’s nyc office in a week or two to find out if there’s any organized transportation to IA, but as of right now, it looks like a solo trip for me.

  260. You know what really annoys me about the morning forum, she essentially told that health guy everyone will have a chance to buy into Medicare(which IS government administered health coverage) and they still were not satisfied. What the hell?

  261. mj — I don’t know if you realize what a set-up that all was. Did you notice the constant references to Gamaliel Foundation — that’s where all the reps were from — that’s also where Obama did his community organizing thing.

  262. And yeah, it kills me that someone who went knocking (by herself) door-to-door in New Bedford to get the right counts on school-aged children was booed by community activists. At least her activism led to a federal law, Education for All Handicapped Children Act — what did Obama’s activism accomplish?

  263. HillaryLandRocks, wow. That was organization Obama worked for? Unbelievable. What crap.

    Obama did squat. He registered some voters, and that was about all. And, there they were giving him credit for SCHIP.

  264. You know what, then I am glad she didn’t have to go there in person. Why waste her time. This was clearly an Obama rally. Hell, alot of voters will prefer the candidate who was booed at that event.

  265. really los angeles? i quite like it …
    it means i’m pissed off, so yeah it was definetly shouting…

    but i’m done…
    spent too many hours on blogs, that were talking about hillary and the assistant, and other sordid things…

    dont mind me…

  266. HLR,

    i was planning on going for a week myself, though i havent set a date…
    all this talk of ice, has me a little put off…

    though i’ve had a number of calls from the campaign asking for my participation, i have not joined up…

    have had some personal stuff going on…
    but i feel like the least i could do is come out and show support where its needed…

    let me know about any pertinent info if you can…

  267. Just want to chime in,

    I’m not too worried about IA polls. I am continuing to chat with real Iowans who are going to caucus. It looks like the situation is very fluid. Obama has some major weaknesses in rural areas, it’s basically a two-way battles between Edwards & Obama in those small towns.

    I have a mixed feeling about Edwards’ #s. It appears to me he is not going to fade away. On a cautionary note, it’s not so bad, since we do not know where Edwards’ supporters will go if he fades away. On the other hand, I do have a feeling Edwards’ supporters are not going to Obama per se… If he fades away, Clinton may indeed benefit…

    I talked to at least two or three Edwards supporters(who caucused for him last time). One even attended J.J. diner, neither was impressed with Obama. When I point out the importance of stopping Obama in IA, both seem to at least open to the idea of coalescing behind Hillary…

    I won’t be surprised if there’s some sea change of those #s in the next few weeks…

  268. Kostner:

    I agree with you about the fluid dynamics of this race at the moment.

    I’m not sure the idea that Hillary isn’t inevitable is a bad thing for Clinton right now. It forces the issue out of the realm of fun and games into real focus about electing a real President. It forces real focus about experience. It forces real focus about the commander-in-chief threshold. And, it forces real focus about some Obama electability issues that are best left unenumerated but that will have to be grappled with before voting.

    BTW, I hope that Hillary getting boo’d for refusing to promise amnesty in the first 100 days of her Presidency gets widespread coverage in Iowa. The illegal immigration issue is radioactive. Hillary should consider doing an ad highlighting her differences with her opponents’ support for drivers licenses and amesty.

  269. I submitted this comment on two news sites and both got deleted. I don’t know why.

    [QUOTE]The fact is, Obama lies worse than any other Democratic candidate today and yet it’s Clinton that gets the brunt of this criticism. He is the worse hypocrite of all and yet he’s quick on the draw when slinging this mud on everyone else. That’s who he is, and with fanboys like people who post here without checking their facts, what need does he have to tell the truth?

    He has done nothing for minorities as somebody else here has written so clearly and yet according to Michelle Obama, if you don’t vote for her husband, you don’t get it. Honey, they get it all right! They get that Obama has never stood up for anyone but himself and now he wants instant support because he’s black.

    When he was asked to speak by the Democrats last presidential elections, he talked about Obama, Obama and himself and blasted the other Democrats for being too attached to their principles and yet those in the far left favor him more than Hillary Clinton. I don’t get this kind of “fanboyism”.

    I rather expected Democrats to decide based on facts than innuendo, substance over form. But here we have the most underqualified candidate since World War II become a contender for the nomination. This is George W. Bush “fanboyism” – Democrat-style.

    Just look at how Obama responded to this criticism: instead of merely being steadfast in his belief that it’s proper to do it, he attacks the Hillary camp for getting volunteers to join the JJ Dinner – except that, the JJ Dinner is not the caucus. See how misleading and dishonest he is?[/QUOTE]

    I posted another version after this got deleted and if it gets deleted again, I’ll completely believe what you’re saying about “Big Media”.

  270. As for Edwards, I don’t know what he is thinking. He as to win Iowa. Obama winning Iowa finishes him off. He would be better off finishing second to Clinton in Iowa (and going on as the anybody-but-Clinton candidate) than finishing second to Obama.

    Obama emerging as the frontrunner in Iowa is devastating to Edwards. He has to go after him.

  271. TM posted the following from Daily Krap:

    By the way, the Clinton headquarters [in Rochster NH] remained closed with no one inside yesterday. In stark contrast, Sen. Barack Obama’s local headquarters, just a few doors down, was bustling with workers and supporters who fanned out into the city, canvassing door to door as part of a planned statewide movement.

    Well, as I posted last night, there were at least 5 media trucks parked on both sides of Main Street. There were zero signs of hustling and bustling at BO’s office (trucks parked in front).

    While out doing errands in/around town saw exactly ONE BO sign. On the other side of town, saw a couple Edwards signs. Saw exactly less than 5 BO signs elsewhere and they were near UNH. Outside the UNH area saw a couple Dodd signs. Lots of Hillary signs, including the large 4×8 ones in prominent places. Also saw a clustering of Romney and Kucinich signs near a traffic circle (yes, we have traffic circles here in NH) but they were all (with the exception of one well-placed 4×8) stuck roadside on public land, not in yards.
    No Ron Paul signs where I went. Only the one Edwards sign locally. Little BO presence.

    The fanning out by BO’s (imported supporters) they refer to is concentrated in the larger urban areas, not here in this county.

    I haven’t checked the BO forums this week, but I’m positive what I would find. The “Iowa effect” of bringing in outsiders … and NH folks ain’t all that open to folks from the “south” coming in to tell “these locals” what to do, either, no more than they should in Iowa.

  272. goodmorning hillfans, rass is out unusually early this morning with his latest national poll. hillary has 37% to obama’s 24%. maybe the national surge in his poll was statistical noise. lordy what a roller coaster ride this weekend is.

  273. Nationally, Clinton is viewed favorably by 77% of all Democrats. Obama earns favorable reviews from 68%, Edwards from 66%. Among all voters nationwide, Clinton is viewed favorably by 47%, Obama and Edwards by 48%. As has been the case all year, attitudes towards Clinton are more intense than for other candidates (see history weekly results among Democrats and among all voters).

    rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_2008__1/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

  274. hwc..

    Edwards doesn’t have to do anything. He’s been assured a VP slot, can’t you tell?

    Edwards has been running interference for Obama for months now. Keeping Obama from soiling himself with baseless attacks against Hillary!

    Mrs. S.

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