Turkey Lurkey and The Flat Roller-Coaster

We might have learned something from yesterday’s ABC News/Washington Post poll of Iowa voters. What we learned has very little to do with political poll numbers.

Take off your turkey hunting hat and put on your psychoanalysis cap.

Here’s what respected pollster Stu Rothernberg had to say about the political/media aspects of the Iowa poll:

If there is something surprising about the new ABC News/Washington Post survey of likely Iowa Democratic caucus attendees, it isn’t the fact that Sen. Barack Obama (30 percent) holds a narrow lead over New York Sen. Hillary Clinton (26 percent) and John Edwards (22 percent). It’s the curious way ABC and rival NBC reported on and interpreted the results during their Monday night national news programs. [snip]

ABC’s World News opened with the network’s new survey, treating it with a breathless quality deserving of momentous breaking news. In fact, the ballot test in the new poll wasn’t all that different from the previous ABC News/Washington Post poll, conducted in late July, which had Obama leading with 27 percent, to 26 percent each for both Clinton and Edwards. Obama’s lead both in July and in the most recent survey are statistically insignificant. [snip]

NBC also botched its report of the new survey. First, Nightly News anchor Brian Williams, referring to the Iowa race and the new poll, said “It’s tightening among the Democrats,” and then NBC Chief White House Correspondent David Gregory compounded the error by telling viewers that “For the first time, [Obama] has a lead in the state.” Given the results of the previous ABC News/Washington Post poll, “tightening” is not an apt description. And of course, Obama held a “lead” in the July survey.

It’s worth noting, though nobody did, that the July ABC News/Washington Post survey was dramatically different than other surveys taken at the time. This does not mean that the July ABC News survey was wrong or that the current one is incorrect. It is a reminder, however, that it’s better to be cautious about reading too much into this, or any, poll – even if you are paying for the survey.

For the record, we will also note that the poll was taken at a time when Hillary had been under fire by her Democratic opponents. For two weeks Hillary was savaged by Big Media and Obama/Edwards and Ripublican candidates ran anti-Hillary advertisements in New Hampshire. If there was anything of note in the new Iowa poll it is the continuing death rattle of the Edwards campaign. Hillary’s numbers remained stable. Note also the rise of Bill Richardson and the possibility Richardson will overtake Edwards.

That said, what caught our eyes was not the dubious pedigree or results of the Iowa poll, but like Rothenberg, we gazed at the reaction to the poll — think Whoville after the Grinch returns the flooflahs and gadrooks on Christmas Day.

By now, it is not especially original to note (with barely veiled amusement) how Obama supporters (poor Edwards supporters, they have been exiled from Whoville celebrations) shout huzzahs and ignite fireworks at the few polls showing an Obama lead yet they regularly denigrate and denounce polls that show, with regularity, a Hillary lead.

Why, we wondered, do rational people twist themselves into pretzels – one day denouncing any and all polls, the next day praising a poll – all the while denying the charge of inconsistency? There is no denying, it is transparently a complete reverse of position, to denounce poll results one day and praise poll results the next day. Why such inconsistency? Why such intellectual cheapness? We had a mild and giggly revelation.

We realized that like proverbial impoverished orphans beaten daily by an equally proverbial wicked step-mother, the slightest smile, indeed even a perfunctory slap (as opposed to a deliberate and energetic slap) by the wicked step-mother will be welcomed by the little tyke as an act of love. In other words, Obama supporters (we’ll charitably include Edwards supporters too because it is the holiday season) are so used to bad news they will leap like happy dogs at any scrap thrown their way.

As we wrote, the above are not particularly astute observations. But let’s go one step further. Perhaps this helps to explain the inchoate hate some Obama/Edwards supporters display towards Hillary and her triumphant supporters. Let’s look at things from the point of view of Obama/Edwards supporters. Day after day, week after week, month after month, every poll that is announced is occasion for fear. Like beaten dogs these Obama/Edwards supporters tremble with fear every time the cruel master enters the house, poll stick in hand. When not beaten, the dog rejoices and licks the hand of the benevolent poll/master.

Imagine now, if you will, paying for a roller-coaster ride, expecting swift ups and downs and thrills a minute, only to get a steady ride with no surprises – a bus ride to the parking lot. Obama/Edwards supporters early in the year expected to actually compete for the nomination. They expected a thrill packed up and down ride to the nomination. Instead they find themselves on a bus to the Hillary parking lot. The anger rises.

Which brings us to our central point. Obama/Edwards supporters don’t know what it feels like to be genuinely winning and this feeds their inarticulate hatred. Yes, Obama has had very good Big Media publicity but never a streak of winning poll numbers. Edwards has not had a good day, nor good publicity, since the day he announced. Even on the day Edwards announced he had to compete with two other funerals – President Ford and James Brown. The Obama and Edwards campaign don’t know how it feels to be on top. It’s not funny. This probably helps to explain their deranged mood swings and attacks and hatred of all things Hillary.

Hillary supporters, on the other hand, have been on a winning streak all year. Hillary has had great poll numbers going back to 2004 when some thought she should run for president. When the odd poll with less than stellar results for Hillary is published some act like Turkey Lurkey – the sky is falling. We Hillary supporters are an odd bunch. We prize excellence. Hillary polls at less than 50% and we are aghast. We begrudge Governor Richardson’s New Mexico poll leads. We hungrily gaze at Obama’s slight Illinois lead. We are barely satisfied at massive leads in Connecticut, Delaware and North Carolina – homes states of other competitors. We want it all. Hooray for us.

Iowa peeves us. It is not necessary for a Hillary victory, but it peeves us nevertheless. We want to win there, not out of necessity but for a sense of completeness and dare we say, perfection. Forget, as our chart from Sunday shows, that Hillary has spent much less on advertising than Obama, and visited Iowa much less than Obama and Edwards. Forget too that our allies such as EMILY’s List and AFSCME are just beginning to campaign for Hillary. Forget too that we still do not know what the full campaign calendar is and that Hillary is running a 50 state campaign. Hillary has a live Democratic campaign in New Hampshire and there the Ripublicans are running advertisements against her thereby helping Obama/Edwards/Richardson. Hillary is campaigning and winning nationwide. The Obama and Edwards campaigns are essentially running an Iowa only campaign.

We want to win and nothing else will do.

While the other campaigns light incense and chant incantations for deliverance at this late and crucial hour — the Hillary team is harvesting all the fruits of months of hard work. The Hillary Team is responding, as planned, to the late hour challenges. Hillary is increasing staff, advertising and surrogate and personal appearances in Iowa while maintaining the initiative in the other 49 states. As other candidates attack her trustworthiness, an ad addressing that concern is released. When Ripublicans Romney and McCain run negative ads against her in New Hampshire the campaign responds with an advertisment aimed at the Ripublicans.

The Hillary campaign is running a 50 state campaign with all the other campaigns geared up to attack one and only one person – Hillary. What is remarkable is that Hillary is still beating them all.

Hillary is winning at this late and crucial hour, because she hoped for the best, but prepared for the worst. Wishing and hoping, moaning and groaning won’t win the day. We mean to win. Nothing else will do.


200 thoughts on “Turkey Lurkey and The Flat Roller-Coaster

  1. I confess that paroxysms of delirious joy among the Obama supporters is amazing. They seem to have learned some truth about polling the last 24 hours. The margin of error and faulty sampling are not among those truths, but I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and say Obama a touch bit ahead in Iowa.

    I hope they will enjoy the scrutiny. I can’t imagine Obama will do anything but wither under it.

  2. It’s amazing Hillary stayed where she did in Iowa given the attacks from all sides. Same with NH. I live near NH and everyone is running against her from both parties.

  3. I was just noticin’, mj, that she used Dr. King’s phrase the “fierce urgency of now” in her speech before Wellsley, the day after the debate. Wasn’t that before the Jeff-Jack dinner?

  4. Wow, I just got back from DK. What a creepy place. Larry Johnson has an article up talking about Hillary. Brave guy.

    Personally, I think she’s going to win Iowa. I think standing there in a caucus and contemplating voting for a drug fiend with mob ties, or Edwards (who did not catch fire this time out), I think people will turn to Hillary. By the time the advertising rolls out, and the volunteers show up at the door, I think it’ll be hers though we may not know that until the night of the caucuses.

  5. chris matthews tonight

    “obama rising”..they ( msnbc ) still re-playing debate ( msnbc ) of 10/30. as if last weeks cnn debate never happened. sickening to see the BM we’re up against.

  6. I can not believe Obama has talked of making cuts to the space program to pay for his ed plan. I’m telling you that is to get Republican votes. How can you be the candidate of the future and be against the space program?

  7. mj:

    I am from the ‘Space Coast’ of Florida, and I can tell you that talk of spending cuts to the NASA program will completely turn people off of BO here (actually all of central FL). It’s just another example of his idiotic policies.

  8. Even without the jobs, I find it immensley cynical to cut funding to the space program to pay for an education plan. The two actually work in concert with eachother.

  9. What’s he care? As part of their strategy to hand the Republicans the election, the Democratic Party has already decided to not hold a Florida primary or compete for Florida’s 27 Electoral College votes in Nov 2008.

  10. Sweet scoop: Oprah to stump for Obama.

    MANCHESTER, N.H.—Oprah Winfrey is poised to campaign for White House hopeful Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) in Iowa and New Hampshire, the Chicago Sun-Times has learned.

    Obama made the disclosure while working a crowd at Central High School here, after delivering an education policy speech. A man, Ralph Hoagland, asked Obama—who was mingling and shaking hands– if Oprah was going to stump for Obama in New Hampshire.

    “First she’s coming to Iowa,” Obama told Hoagland, who in 1963 was a co-founder of what is now the giant CVS pharmacy chain. “But we’ll talk about it. We’ll get her up here.”

    A woman piped up. “We need her here.”

    “Is she thinking of not coming up to New Hampshire?” Hoagland asked?

    Obama replied, “No, no no. We’re just doing it one state at a time.”

    During these mix and mingle events, it is common for reporters and photographers to follow Obama around as he works the room or a rope line and listen in as he chats.

    I caught up with Hoagland after his Obama encounter. He is a member of Obama’s Northeast Steering Group, which is heavily involved in fund-raising. He hopes to bundle together $100,000 for Obama, with some of his efforts targeted to a small dinner with Obama on Dec. 2 in New York.

    Oprah Winfrey can help, Hoagland said, “because I think that Oprah can say to women ‘you do not have to vote for the first woman president. Vote for what you need.”

    The Obama campaign has long hoped Winfrey, who hosted a massive fund-raiser for Obama would be willing to go on the stump for him. Winfrey opened her Montecito, Calif. estate to Obama on Sept. 8 for a star-studded fund-raiser that took in about $3 million for Obama.


  11. DKOS is creepy. They have a diary over there on Obama’s confessed drug use, and as is typical they are discussing the virtues of his honesty. I swear this guy could walk naked in a cold stupor through Congress, and they would find a good reason for it. “He’s not afraid to be himself.” What a bunch of crud.

  12. kitforhill, a while back we wrote a post quoting an Obama supporter who attended one of his fundraisers. Here is an excerpt of what the incomparable Dawn Summers wrote in her funny post:


    “Senator, my name is Dawn Summers. do you really think you can beat a Mccain or a Giuliani or a Thompson? Do you have enough experience to be President? Didn’t you make a commitment to the people of Illinois that you’re breaking? Is it true your friends call you Barry? Seriously, you admit to doing coke??? IN WRITING?? What were you thinking???”

  13. What is NBC news talking about? The Andrea Mitchell piece they just showed made major claims that Hillary has lost female support to Obama. I don’t recall seeing that in any poll.

  14. Oprah Oprah Oprah…………. my goodness…….. this should be fun.(ugh)

    I honestly think this will backfire on Ohama.
    It might seem as if he needs his momma to come out to help him, very commander in chief’esqe!

  15. hwc:

    Florida will be holding a primary on January 29, but the DNC will not seat any of our 210 delegates at the convention. Thus, making it similar to a “straw poll.” However, I think it will be a nice little boost for Hillary going into Super Tuesday because of her commanding lead in the Sunshine state!

    Nevertheless, this leaves her at a disadvantage to whoever the republican candidate is – since they can already campaign here (I am so sick of the Mitt Romney ads!).

  16. After President Bush said in an interview that he believed without a doubt that Hillary has an advantage from having been in the white house before and knows what it is all about, and essentially saying Hillarys experience from being First Lady is a VALID experience, (take that Obama),
    He also kind of called Obama inexperience regarding his foreign policy position (meeting with rouge nations). They quickly issued a ridiculous and childish, response, if you ask me, they are so silly sometimes….

    Senator Barack Obama’s campaign wasted no time in responding to the President.

    “I can’t tell if Bush is endorsing Hillary, hoping she’s the nominee, or thanking her for her votes on Iraq and Iran,” Obama, D-Ill., spokesperson Bill Burton told ABC News.

  17. Florida democrats need to sue because their voice will not be represented in this election. Talk about a take away. I agree with mj’s assessment but the whole negative campaigning is cause for thinking desperation. After all, he’s gettin’ beaten by a woman. This is too distracting for the race and that is the real danger of oprey’s visit. IT gets attention. It may backfire but we can’t count on it. We have to keep runnin’ our race. It would probably be a good thing to have a turkey day moratorium on bo. Least that’s what I have to do. mollyj

  18. I think Bill has more clout than Oprah…Thats all we need is have oprah’s views in the white house,she is not as smart as Bill either.I think enough people see her once a day,and i dont watch her.But i wonder on bo site he doesn’t say happy thanksgiving,watch it come out he doesn’t celebrate thanksgiving..lol..that will put iowa in there right frame of mind.who will elect a president who doesn’t celebrate the holidays.

  19. “Hoagland said, “because I think that Oprah can say to women ‘you do not have to vote for the first woman president. Vote for what you need.”” Lovely.

  20. I’m sure as soon as one of his staffers she’s HIllary’s t’giving message it will be copied word for word.

  21. Hey guys, I guess I’m kind of new here, though I’ve been registered here for a while, and this is the first time my posting ability has worked. lol

    Anyways, I live in a southwest suburb of Chicago in a high school that’s predominantly Republican and/or for Obama. As you all have suspected before, there ARE indeed buses that take students (yes…even freshmen from high school) and others to Iowa and Iowa specifically. Most of my friends that go, but aren’t even legal to vote say that they attend his rallies and make up a large part of his crowd. They also go there to campaign for him and have attended the Jefferson Jackson dinner as you have suspected.

    What’s kind of sickening, is that Obama is paying for these thousands of supporters to go on these buses. My friends have offered me to go and support him and guarantee me it’s a free deal. However, I am opposed as it feels so much like cheating and taking advantage of another state’s proximity and importance in the primary.

    As you can imagine, i feel like the only Hillary supporter in my area, lol, so this site is quite refreshing.

    There are talks among people…not a lot of it…but whispers that of the people that have relatives in Iowa or a house in Iowa (and are seniors in school who can vote) are willing to allow friends to go with them to iowa before the Caucus date and register. Is that legal? I KNOW it’s not moral. And it’s REALLY wrong.

    Anyways, just letting you know. I doubt there’s anything I can do about it if I did as people are smart. They are willing to drive to Iowa.

  22. that’s right, she’s travelin’ all the way to Iowa and NH to tell them she’d rather them vote for her underqualified male friend.

  23. Listen – Bush is saying that because he’s counting on reactionary Democrats to oppose Hillary because he has endorsed her. This is all the proof you need that they are terrified of her and are dying to sink their teeth into Obama.

  24. Of course you are right, angel. I doubt that “W” is givin’ her an endorsement. His mama called her that “b” word once…or maybe she said that thing about it rhymes with witch.

  25. molly:

    I agree that we should sue, but everything I have read on that topic basically says it won’t change the DNC ruling. On a positive note though, BO cannot use his slime-ball tactics here in FL.

    Also, I think throwing Oprah at people is a little desperate. Plus, her persona will completely overshadow Obambi (as she does with everybody), which could be a good thing for him/his campaign – by overshadowing his faults and whatnot.

  26. We still have over a month to go before the Iowa caucuses and my thought is that there will be polls showing Hillary ahead between now and then since it’s a 3 way race. It will be interesting to see the next Iowa poll by a different outfit than the one that did the ABC poll (does anyone know when another will be released?). The MSM make it seem like this is the one and only poll that has valid information. I wouldn’t call one poll a trend. Things are just too fluid and from what I’ve read, polling methods can affect poll results in all kinds of ways. Also, what happened to the margin of error statement? NBC didn’t even mention that tonight but it’s important statistically. How can you proclaim someone “ahead” when their percentage is in the margin of error?

    I am pleased that Hillary is starting to fight back directly at Obama. I think they need to do that daily and do it harder. Enough is enough. Obama bringing up right wing smears is just shocking….I will never vote for this man for anything.

  27. Well to respond to MSJ’s question above, I think that President Bill has more clout than Oprah…I guess the question is with whom? He is so damn smart it isn’t even funny. I only know a few people that are even in his league in terms of “smarts” and one of ’em is the current frontrunner for president.

  28. Americangal, I noticed that the “margin of error” phrase was bein’ left out of the news. I am pretty sure some of the folks who should be usin’ it couldn’t explain it for nothin’.

  29. MJS,

    Welcome on board. …. Please please please keep these valuable information coming in. I long suspected obama would try dirty tricks. It’s nice that we can have somebody on the ground to verify these things.

    If you can, please try as hard as possible to dig out what his campaign’s shellegan really is.

  30. It’s convenient for the MSM to not highlight certain pieces of information that would contradict their ‘clever’ headlines (i.e. – “Obama surges ahead in Iowa”), which they work so hard on creating.

  31. What I also know is that there are always buses every Saturday at around 6:00 AM that take students here from my high school as well as the whole community and I suspect many others too…to rally and campaign in Iowa for Obama.

    These people Really want Obama to win! What teenager would wake up at 5:30 every Saturday for politics?

    Well, apparently a LOT of them around here. It’s very sickening that they have this semi-homefield advantage.

  32. mjs,

    I also suggest you post inside tips to TaylorMarsh. You can either post on her site in public, or if the tips are really confidential, email her. She has a ‘contact’ entry for posters to send her confidential stuff.

    TaylorMarsh is generally pro Hillary.

  33. MollyJ, I think Obama is trying to play on Oprah’s influence with stay-at-home mothers who listen to every word she says. He thinks he can tear into Hillary’s sector here.

  34. thanks Kostner. This has been going on for a while actually, but I didn’t really think it would make such a big impact until i saw the JJ dinner on tv and knew for a fact that that was where a lot of my friends were as they were conveniently not at home that day.

  35. When Senator Joe Biden walked to a corner of the stage, looked up into the crowd and said, “thank you, Chicago” or whatever, he knew of what he spoke.

  36. Kostner, I just looked on Taylor Marsh’s site and saw that someone already posted my comment in her comments section lol. Thanks for the headsup though!

    I’ll try to do some undercover work then. lol

  37. I don’t care if he buses people in for his rallies. What is concerning however, is that they are planning on having these people caucus for him by moving in a week early.

  38. yeah hes cheating..thats called cheating iowans,real iowans out of there votes,and caucus time.fox news is bringing up his drug use..and romney is firing back at OB.hes telling kids about his drug use today and booze.what a message to give kids…

  39. Don’t ever try to bring up drug abuse with a fervent Obama supporter lol. I got an answer like “well, at least he admitted to it. Being a victim of having been sold drugs A LONG TIME AGO is not the same as selling it, so at least he didn’t sell it! He’s so honest!”

    ugh, this is the type of crap I have to deal with everyday around here. lol

  40. Proof of Edwards supporting Obama:

    Clinton leads national polls in the Democratic race, but a loss in Iowa could slow her momentum and puncture the air of inevitability her campaign has tried to promote.

    The Edwards camp, accused of mudslinging by Clinton during the last debate, criticized her comments about Obama. Spokesman Chris Kofinis said: “When it comes to mud, Hillary Clinton says one thing and throws another.”

    From: Reuters


    this is in response to Hillary calling Obama out on his use of 4 childhood years in Indonesia as experience!

  41. Des Moines is 5.5 hours away, which is why i think they leave from 6:00 AM

    wow. think about it. if people as far away as I am are willing to drive/get bussed there, what are the possibilities for the people along the part which borders Iowa? My city is only 15 miles from Chicago which is on the northeast side of the state of IL and a state’s length away from iowa. O.O

  42. Oh, but to get to Iowa City from here is 3.5 hours.

    and about accomodations, they usually are active from the time they arrive in Iowa (around 10-11) to 6:00PM when the bus takes them back and they arrive pretty late into the night.

  43. He does not have to move people to Desmoines on election night. He just have to move people one week before to the nearest border town and caucus there.

  44. And mind you, it’s Christmas break here around that time, so people should have no problem taking a break or taking some time to “have fun” in iowa for a week before caucuses..

  45. Welcome MJS,

    Are you saying the bused students are “paid” to look like supporters in Obama’s audience?
    Do you know how much they are paid? Wow.. It seems everything about Obama is fake.

    Uh, no wonder the last minute appeals for $$$ from his donor supporters.

    These kids need to get paid for their acting skills.. roving from audience to audience. I guess during the week Obam speaks at small venues and goes all out on weekends!

    OMG- It’s come to this!

    Strip everything away from Obama and what do you have left? NADA!

    Barack Obama, Media Creation..

    You can never forget who you are dealing with.

    Mrs. S.

  46. Hey Mrs. S.

    Well, not essentially paid…but it’s a free trip to Iowa every weekend with their close friends and free food/drink. A lot of this, too, is to make it look like Obama is very popular. Especially to other independents or those who haven’t made up their mind and happen to see a VERY well liked guy who just happens to always turn up a huge crowd. It’s kind of like peer pressure in a way.

    And mind you, these are CHILDREN (not all) that he is exploiting in some ways. They are mostly all under 18. Many of whom are 14 or 15. These kids are easily influenced. Their friends start loving Obama and they do too. It’s a chain reaction.

    I will be 18 by the time of the General Election though.

  47. mjs,

    I hope you’ll get some evidence the Obama is actually ‘paying’ those kids to IA… How about you go with them for once? This can be huge depending on situations…

  48. CJ,

    My school is large and takes children from 4 local towns. 1 greyhound bus takes kids and maybe their parents from my town alone. And the buses usually look either full or with a max of 5-10 empty seats. I know that many people are recruiting more of their friends, families, and relatives as i’ve been emailed and facebooked about joining the charade.

  49. I hope it’s safe to be telling all of you guys this, publicly lol. Is there anyway Obama can track me down and have me gunned? lol.

    hope not 🙁

  50. Kostner,

    I’ll see if I can, but I’ve been so staunchly for Hillary. I’ll see if i can convince my friends that I’m going out of a “change of heart” lol

  51. If all they do is attend rallies that is fine. Attending the caucuses is whole another ball game. I am not sure how they can be caught though if they just move in along with their relatives in Iowa for a week and then attend these caucuses. It is first rate fraud but with the big media in his lap, I doubt there is much reporting going on (or will go on in future) looking at this angle at all. Right now, the big media is just interested in doing anything to bring down Hillary candidacy.

  52. MJS-

    This IS cheating because this is not public knowledge. Iowans are not aware of what is going on. They are being duped into believing Obama is winning their support when in fact, he’s faking support in an effort to create an illusion of preference! Uh.Uh-

    Really, someone needs to look into the child protection laws for underage children taken over state lines and Labor Laws.

    Also, I don’t believe Iowans would be happy to know Obama is stacking the deck to create an air of popularity.

    One thing about Iowans- Make Fools out of them and you create an enemy for Life!

    Obama is Flim-Flam Man!

  53. Admin,

    Another great analysis as usual. When I tuned in the news last night, I felt the same way about the lead story ‘OBAMA GAINING MOMENTUM AND NUDGING AHEAD OF HILLARY’ which did not even mention her 21.4 precent lead nationally.

    As I said some months ago, and it is showing itself to be true today…..HILLARY IS THE BLUE CHIP STOCK in this race, and OBAMA is at best a DOTCOM bubble.

  54. ra1029..they all can’t have relatives right there in iowa,not unless he asked them if they had family in io so he could figure it all out from there.for cacus night

  55. you got that right mrs smith..those iowans hear of this.. omg..they’ll frantic.i got 2 cousins there..i know how they are.it will gossip forever in pop and mom shops

  56. MJS..

    I don’t think you should go. Someone else needs to come forward. Or have someone else check this out. You have declared yourself a Hillary supporter. This could all backfire if you involve yourself personally. Let the word get out and let others find ways to verify and document. You stay safe and out of the fray.

    Stay here with us… and report what you hear thereabouts..

    Got that…MJS…Stay out of it!

    Mrs. S.
    Mrs. S.

  57. i got to thinking about that too..stay out of it…but the reporting will be good because it will eventually come out..to stack his popularity ..and if i am not mistaken he was with kids today and they shown a few pictures on tv and they were young…there arent that many people in iowa whos kids attend his meetigs

  58. i think hes sneaking them over at night ,out of the projects…you know… where else would he get em for during the week on school days.today was a school day in iowa

  59. I don’t think Bush is praising Hillary because he has some plans to derail her in the primary. I think he genuinely respects her and the crap she is putting up with inorder to run for the white house. She and Joe Biden are the only adults in this race among democrats. The rest of them act as if they are running for a college president.

  60. i think he repsects her too,yes the rest is running on nothing no substance …if they say hillary a thousand times thats what there running for…

  61. ok, I’ll do the best i can. almost every friend of mine is staunchly for Obama and the ones that aren’t, don’t care and/or are for Bush.

    I’ll try to keep above the fray as Hillary does, but it’s really despicable that he gets to cheat and get away with it. I’m hoping for a Howard Dean like reporting on this bussing in business so that Iowans will know the truth!

    I’m not sure if my friends are lying, but on one bus trip, they said they were joined by Obama man himself and that he met with all of them.

    At lest three of my friends are spending part of their Thanksgiving break in Iowa. I know that is for sure.

  62. MJS, that’s a pretty big accusation to make. Maybe your friends are just going to bring out caucus goers. I really think Iowans would both be aware and reject fraud like that. It seems a bit unbelievable that his campaign would be actively organizing that.

  63. I love all these titles in the news

    “Obama surges ahead of Clinton in new Iowa polls”
    “Obama is paying no price for agression”


    All because he got a lead that is within the margin of error? lol

  64. MJS, Yes, it’s always good to stay above the fray. There’s plenty of good ways we can all contribute to helping Hillary. I am sure a lot of people have had some suspicions for sometime and whatever is goin’ on will come out. mollyj

  65. MJ,

    I don’t think it’s a matter of Obama organizing it. Sure, he’s organizing the buses and the trips on Saturdays to help rally and support him….but as far as the caucus-going illinoisers? I’m pretty sure Obama is not entirely advocating this. as i have stated, there are people who privately are getting others to join them for a road trip, possibly in absence of Obama involvement. these are people that really are either:

    a) really staunch Obama supporters
    b) just hate Hilllary with all their guts.


    From what i’ve been hearing and been told, it seems this is mainly a supporter-lead idea and plan of action…not necessarily coming from the O-Man himself.

  66. anyways Hill fans, isn’t there an upcoming debate in iowa in December? if audience participation is allowed, I have a feeling there will be serious booing for Hillary.

  67. MJS

    You say you are only 17 yrs old? You have to know this plan has been hatched by Obama’s team of consultants. The plan wasn’t engineered by kids. There are skilled political operative commissioned with a task, produce a win for Obama.

    Child exploitation can NEVER be an acceptable frame of reference for allowing a politician the use of our children as a means to an end. Can you tell I’m fuming right now.

    Ask yourself, would Obama allow HIS children to go on a 7 hr bus ride over state lines to pump up the volume for another politician?

    I can tell you right now… the answer is NO!

  68. From what i’ve been hearing and been told, it seems this is mainly a supporter-lead idea and plan of action…not necessarily coming from the O-Man himself.

    Well, isn’t that always the story?

  69. Is this his education policy for students? Instead of encouraging them to spend time on their education or atleast have fun at home, he is bussing them for his rallies in a different state? What a douche bag?

    This might also explain why he has a huge support among online blogs. He might take them to a hall, provide them laptops, and some food and other entertainment to type away on their keyboards 🙂

  70. yea Mrs. Smith, it is quite despicable, but the thing with the caucus-going might or might not be with Obama’s knowledge. He may be crafty, but he must have seen what happened to Dean in Iowa to know not to even let that idea be considered a possibility!

    And kids around here call it “volunteering” and getting “volunteer hours” for supporting Obama…so maybe this is also to amp up their own resumes. win-win.

    What’s weird is how people don’t realize this whole bussing strategy. Is Obama using another method to transport them? I’m sure people would notice if 15+ buses are parked outside of wherever he is, lol.

  71. Sometime ago there was a lady with an account icebergslim who was from Chicago. I think she now moved into Iowa until elections. She will vote there and be back. She was mentioning something to that effect on mydd. When people started asking for details, she quickly backed off and did not respond. I guess she is now in Iowa and will campaign and caucus for Obama from there, and then move back to Chicago.

  72. hows he get away with that bussing over state lines,kids ,and in a presidential race.got the ole keyboards going…hes a media made up canidate

  73. i think he has got a quite a few of them living there…i think hes sneaky,and can’t be trusted,then what are they going to do for NH the same thing.

  74. Obama’s supporters are largely very young, college/high school, or graduate kids. I’m sure that these people are the ones joining facebook groups, posting in blogs, and the same.

  75. considering that that is just one person, dumb enough to even hint at it, who has far too much time on his/her hands, ra1029, i think the question now is…How many more are there that are like that?

    CJ, as far as NH, most Obama supporters at my school are confident that history is in their favor and that a win in Iowa would mean a subsequent win in NH due to momentum.

  76. MJS, Don’t break it to them that winning Iowa guarantees nothing, lol. Several times the eventual nominee has lost Iowa.

  77. I am sure that there are sure many more like that. These people are obviously counting on Howard Dean like collapse happening again.








  79. Paula, I couldn’t even if I tried, lol. many of them have some of the most intense limited vision I have ever seen. Getting into a conversation with them is like trying to convince George Bush to support gay marriage, end the war in Iraq, and run the country in a non-partisan way lol

  80. That is true Paula. She can afford to loose Iowa while Edwards can’t afford to be anything other than #1 there. Obama cannot loose to Hillary in Iowa.

  81. lol United12.

    I think she’s smart and might be reserving that for a time much closer to primaries. I mean, people have short attention spans and memories. Having people out now will probably be forgotten. what matters is how she is viewed in the crucial days leading up to January 3rd.

  82. The one thing to watch out for is if he is going to bus people into Iowa debate. It is tricky situation. It might backfire among people watching at home on television.

  83. hi,

    does anybody know if Obama’s drug story got any local news coverage in NH? fixnews might have covered it, i only saw an AP report.

    Anyway, what I’m doing now is to cut and paste all these shady Obama stories to non-political forums who sometimes have ‘random chat’ section.


  84. yep i think she should get some stars,Mariah,Aretha,bills on save the music foundation he knows all of them…some rappers,uhh,eminem would be a good one.kenny chesney get majic J..in Iowa ..where is wes at he was on this past weekend supporting hillary and his book..get in Iowa throw a party Hillary..shes so fiscal though..she should…if she wants to win shes gotta have a party…for the voters…

  85. Ra1029

    there actually IS someone at my school who has been recruiting people to sign up for the debate to be held in Iowa. Just as there was someone who told us about Jefferson-Jackson dinner and other events.

    This is only in my high school though. Imagine to the extent of the nine other high schools that are within a ten mile radius of us!








  87. united12

    LOL who are we trying to appeal to here, 5-year-olds? lol. No cartoons please!
    As far as holidays are concerned, I think Hillary is taking the right route by assuming most people don’t want to be pestered with politics during family time.

  88. kostener, I think thats an excellent thing. I think I will use some of the music forums and other forums where I post too.

    Another thing I noticed, and by pointing this out, I only am pointing out at his inexperience.

    when he was screaming at the elderly lady in Iowa, he was actually defending muslims against the lady’s when she was expressing her concern. combine that with Hussein part of his name and it plays a perfect music for right wing machine. Is this guy stupid or what!!!!!

  89. I believe he is still muslim in hiding…i seen where he screamed at that lady…hes lying or he wouldnt bedefend the islamic religion

  90. gladiatorstail,

    I already posted on some sports fan forums. I don’t want to name them , but that sport is a major dems demographics…

    This is very effective tool.


    Can you email Taylor the inside info. on how Obama is organizing high school kids to boo(very possible) Hillary ahead of the Iowa debate?

    We can get ahead of the curve on this one. Please trace this down.

  91. No, CJ, he’s not. People convert to christianity all the time. From what I’ve read he wasn’t religious ntil he became a christian.

  92. mj,

    no need to bring up celiff… Maybe it’s not covenient for him to post here…. Just my thought. This site has nothing to do with Clinton’s campaign.

  93. eh, i don’t really care if Obama is a Muslim. In terms of a candidate, I don’t care whether they are black, white, yellow, christian, jewish, woman, republican, or democrat. so long as they have the best ideas, the best backgroun to support their reputation, and the best leadership qualities for bringing about a better and more prosperous union, I am going to support him/her.

  94. Kostner, i seriously would love to do that, but there is no serious evidence suggesting that this has Obama involved. Saying things like “let’s BOO HER next time” and other stuff doesn’t suggest anything as to Obama’s involvement. And as far as accusing Obama of paying for these buses and such, I’m sure he would be smart to cover his tracks. he could blame it on student groups that organize their own bussing because of their rabid support.

    i will see if i can get concrete and hard evidence (emails, letters, messages, etc) in the coming days and weeks, but as far as doing that now, with only what i hear and know of…it would look shady and only give Obama extra ammunition to both attack Hillary and more incentive to cover his tracks better to prevent any future vulnerabilities.

  95. I didnt say I cared for religion, I just said, it highlighted his inexperience. I mean can anyone see why this was worst move for him? I mean all republicans have to do in GE if he wins is, run that clip over and over again. add that to his flag thing and national anthem thing, and that makes him a perfect deuche. I am not characterizing him in that way, but I am just saying how his inexperience showed up in this case.

  96. ra1029, it was during the day, right after the Vegas debate when we were talking ( they, unhappily i might add 😀 ) about it during lunch and one guy mentioned booing her “the next time around” and my whole lunch table basically agreed.

    by “next time around” i suspected they ment the next debate and i was given a “yes” when i asked about it with my friend.

  97. you’re right gladiatorstail. that is a failure of many American people in general, who tend to fall for this silly propaganda.

  98. MJS:

    I am not sure how it works. Last time the debate was held in Iowa, it was quiet with no audience participation in the debate. I saw some people with suits sitting in the audience. May be this time the debate is at a larger auditorium and hence open to more people.

  99. Clinton fires China Christmas toys warning
    4 hours ago

    SHENANDOAH, United States (AFP) — Democratic 2008 front-runner Hillary Clinton on Tuesday blamed China for a tide of millions of toy exports which she warned could be defective and endanger American children at Christmas.

    The former first lady also recalled how she had “stood up” to the Beijing government in 1995 at an international conference on women on a day in which she ridiculed her Democratic rival Barack Obama’s foreign policy credentials.

    “One of the things I don’t believe we should have to worry about is the safety of our food that is served for Thanksgiving or the toys that we buy our children for Christmas,” Clinton told a crowd of Iowa voters by telephone.

    The former first lady had been forced to call in to a campaign event in the crucial electoral state after her plane was diverted to an airport 65 miles (100 kilometers) away.

    She complained that there had been 72 recalls of toy models so far this year in the United States and said the US government had not taken appropriate steps to protect consumers.

    “That’s approximately 32 million individual toys. And more than 99 percent of them were made in China,” Clinton said.

    “These were trusted names, like Thomas and Friends and Elmo and Dora the Explorer and even Big Bird,” she said, reeling off a string of beloved children’s characters.

    Clinton said the situation was “just as shameful” regarding food safety, tapping an issue of increasing potency in the White House campaign, 43 days before the leadoff Iowa caucuses nominating contests.

    “We are not inspecting food the way we need to, when it’s imported from China,” and called for new leadership at the US Consumer Products Safety Commission.

    She also outlined a plan to create a single food safety agency, further restrictions against lead in children’s products and requiring an independent party test imported toys.

    “I’ll improve the safety of children’s toys and stop dangerous toys from getting into our children’s hands by completely banning lead in children’s toys,” she said.

    “If China expects to do business with the United States, they’re going to have to meet higher standards.

    “And if American companies think that they can get a cheaper deal by going to China, well, they’re got another thing coming, because they’re going to have to meet the same standards.”

    Clinton warned that the United States had problems including a huge trade imbalance with China, and global warming and she recalled how she had famously travelled to the vast communist giant as first lady.

    “I went to Beijing in 1995 and stood up to the Chinese government on human rights, women’s rights,” she said.

    After a furore in the United States, Europe and elsewhere, Beijing recently banned more than 700 toy factories from exporting in a crackdown aimed at repairing its tarnished image.

    China is the world’s top toy exporter, selling 22 billion toys overseas last year, or 60 percent of the globe’s total.

    Chinese-made products ranging from seafood to car tyres have been targeted in a spate of overseas safety recalls this year, with toys in the spotlight in recent months.

    In one high profile case, which had political reverberations in the United States, US toy giant Mattel recalled 18 million toys in August, including Barbie Dolls and Batman action figures amid concern the toys had been made with toxic lead paints and magnets that posed a choking risk to children.

    It was not the first time that China had emerged in an issue in the accelerating 2008 campaign.

    Democratic candidates bemoaned the food imports from China and defective toys during a debate in Chicago in August.

    “China bashing” has been a staple of past US campaigns but the candidate that wins the presidency also frequently tempers the rhetoric as geopolitical concerns take on more importance once the White House is secured.

    In Iowa earlier this month, the national Republican front-runner Rudolph Giuliani warned emerging China was a “great challenge” to the United States, but backed continued engagement with Beijing.

  100. On the Oprah thing — seems to me the thing to do is run an ad while she’s in IA. Footage of the 2005 International Emmy where I think she said to Hillary on stage:

    I hope you do us a privilege and run for office … president of the United States.

  101. I agree HLR,

    she should also run ads with John Kerry and edwards touting the previous Clinton Presidency and its greatness.

    That would be really funny to see her opponents supporting her!

  102. well lets not forget the happiest place on earth, disneyland !

    not wanting kids, but wanting parents and brothers and sisters, and trust me sister, people can be bought in a million different ways…

    this fight is intense, if hillary can show herself to be fun, and positive and humurous, that can be totally appealing… and what parent does not dote on their children? if the kid says mommy lets go see the storm trooper, than mommy and daddy come over and and get a picture with storm trooper, free from hillary…

    marketing, marketing marketing

  103. shout huzzahs and ignite fireworks…..

    god! you used the word “huzzahs” in a sentence…

    Lordie…You Rock So Hard!

    Im in awe once again!

  104. i’m with dem dem on that, you do rock, when i read the huzzah, i just about fell off my bed…

    thanks ! i love art…

  105. hillarylandrocks

    That would be called oprah flip flopping wouldn’t it that is an excellent idea…i rem that too…Oprah would see that,i think she would back out.

  106. sen the footage to her web site lol..said trader shell think it about first the direct hit is on her.. going on the trail its all together different than an oprah show.shes no politician,

  107. You know, I wish Hillary had been a little subtle in that comment about Obama’s FP experience or atleast funny like Biden, that was a bit harsh.

  108. Is it just me, or

    Oprah can say to women ‘you do not have to vote for the first woman president. Vote for what you need.”

    is there a real ‘ick’ factor to that statement?

  109. Alcina, it’s totally sexist. What a pig! Oprah’s going to give the little ladies permission to vote for what they need, huh? What a tool.

  110. BTW, Oprah’s going through a tough time right now. Notice Obama was the one who said she was going to campaign, not her.

  111. Either the Oprah question was planted or I suspect Obama just got caught off guard and said she was going to hit the trail, meaning like let’s get her to Iowa first, not like she had necessarily said she would do that. I mean, as Paula points out Obama made this announcement not Oprah.

  112. MJS-your story is very troubling to all of us. have u addressed this with the campaign-ie contact iowa headquarters? let me know-texan4hillary@gmail.com. I work with one of Hillary natl co-chairs on cmte and we are monitoring the very stories you have observed!

  113. Here’s are some past Iowa winners: H.W. Bush (lost nom to Reagan in 1980). Dole (lost nom to H.W. Bush in 1988). Muskie (lost nom to McGovern). Tom Harkin (lost nom to Bill Clinton). Gephardt (lost nom in Dukakis).

    Aside from incumbents and sitting VPs (Gore, Mondale, both GE losers), only Bush, Kerry and Dole went on to win the nom after winning in Iowa. 2 of that 3 were GE losers.

    Aside from incumbents running unopposed – how many Iowa winners have been elected President in the past 35 years? Only one: George W. Bush. (Carter came in second to ‘uncommitted’ so he claimed victory in ’76.) So that’s Bush, the worst President in history and Carter–God bless the guy, but he only won because of Watergate.

    Iowa chooses for themselves. They don’t choose for the country.

  114. I knew she endorsed Obama long back but it is completely odd for her to be going to IO and NH. Why would she do that? I really hope at the end of all this she has egg on her face~!

  115. texan4hillary, I have given out a lot of the information i know. Just know that there are definitely many Illinoisers in Iowa on at least a weekly basis if not more, rallying, campaigning, and attending Obama’s speeches and stuff. Many of them are 14-16 years old. A lot are older too…while I’m not sure if there are middle-schoolers in on this (probably? but not many).

    many people are indeed thinking of ways to infiltrate the Iowa caucuses. Keep in mind too that what I’m telling you only represents what’s going on in my community. Imagine the magnitude of this on a real and full scale basis, as I am sure that this isn’t the only gung-ho Obama community. 🙁

  116. I agree with Secret. It’s so weird. There is a circus aspect to the whole thing. However, maybe she is just going to Iowa. If you read what Obama said it didn’t sound like he was definate about anywhere else. That would make a little more sense since IL neighbors Iowa.

  117. Yep Iowa chooses for them not for anyone else…I hope it all changes they are packing in the money,which is wrong because all states should benefit …not just Iowa..

  118. first time Oprah tells me who to vote for and why i should vote for bo..she better have a damn good reason.nobody is gonna listen to her especially men,

  119. Ladies, Obambi knows what you neeeeeeeeeeeed …

    There is an amazingly candid moment in Obama’s autobiography when he writes of his childhood discomfort at the way his mother would sexualize African-American men. “More than once,” he recalls, “my mother would point out: ‘Harry Belafonte is the best-looking man on the planet.’ ” What the focus groups his advisers conducted revealed was that Obama’s political career now depends, in some measure, upon a tamer version of this same feeling, on the complicated dynamics of how white women respond to a charismatic black man. “I remember when we realized something magical was happening,” says Obama’s pollster on the campaign, an earnest Iowan named Paul Harstad. “We were doing a focus group in suburban Chicago, and this woman, seventy years old, looks seventy-five, hears Obama’s life story, and she clasps her hand to her chest and says, ‘Be still, my heart.’ Be still, my heart — I’ve been doing this for a quarter century and I’ve never seen that.”


  120. too vote for a president on the basis of looks alone is ridiculous

    Clearly old white men like Obama donors and pollsters are banking on this. Oprah — set those little ladies straight …

  121. lets not be haters…
    we have our people ocrap has his.

    if what you guys say is true, and iowans dont vote women, then whats the point of having oprah, if iowans only do white, than whats the point of doing oprah?

    if you think a big name woman will bring out the troops for obama, than get a few of our own, i’ld be more prone to believe these women watch, the country station, or the religious station, before they would watch oprah… she’s urban, but iowans are country.

  122. I’m actually not concerned about Oprah. It will be fun to have her in our corner in the GE. But that Hoagland guy is a dolt.

  123. Charlie Cook’s latest ratings…

    November 20, 2007

    · The Top Line for 2008

    Presidential Race: Charlie Cook today gives Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney each a 45 percent chance of winning the GOP nomination, Hillary Clinton an 85 percent chance of winning the Democratic nomination, and Democrats a 60 percent chance of capturing the White House.

    His observation on Iowa JJ Dinner…

    The disparity in the points of view about Clinton’s prospects was apparent in the aftermath of the Iowa Democratic Jefferson-Jackson Dinner last weekend. From my seat in the grandstand — a better vantage point than the floor — Sens. Joseph Biden and Christopher Dodd, as well as Gov. Bill Richardson, gave solid, workmanlike performances but probably didn’t significantly improve their standing.

    Former Sen. John Edwards and Sen. Barack Obama did excellent jobs, but Clinton was the most impressive. After a couple of tough weeks, she needed a big performance, and delivered one. A veteran political reporter who has covered at least six presidential elections sat next to me and had the same impression. A large number of the Obama supporters at the event looked too young to get served at a bar, even if the drinking age were 18. Nevertheless, the consensus of reporters there, at least from the coverage I have read, suggests that Obama was the winner. Although Obama’s speech was certainly well delivered and far better than his flat appearance before the Iowa Farmers Union that morning, was it really the best?

  124. Uhm, sorry. When these people go on the record with utterly offensive statements, I plan to hate. Let’s be clear, and I’ll repeat from the article —

    Obama’s political career now depends, in some measure, upon a tamer version of this same feeling, on the complicated dynamics of how white women respond to a charismatic black man.

    That these are the strategies to counter the first viable women candidate makes me hurl.

  125. Exactly what I was thinking! If you want to win over people by simply deploying a celebrity on your side – then why Oprah. Sure she is popular and influential, but I see a big disconnect between average Iowans and O. I would think, as united 12 says, that some country star/religious icon would be a better choice to woo voters. Unless of course, Oprah is giving away her schlock to people who attend her events to garner some votes.

  126. Hmm, no wonder Hillary made those comments. I thought Penn’s comments about the youngsters was a bit unfair, but after reading what Cook said it does indeed sound likes he’s being followed from event to event by a bunch of teenagers. Weird.

  127. Wow, this whole Cook thing makes me think the press is really working over time to create a horse race. I mean, isn’t it weird that aside from the off hand comments from Clinton’s people this is the first time we are hearing it verified that Obama’s supporters were mostly teenagers?

  128. I would say that it is nice to see young Americans interested in politics…if it was not such a cheap ploy and exploitive.

  129. It’s great to see them involved, but no politician running for President wants their crowd to be too lopsided with teenagers.

  130. Adam B at MyDD posted a rejoinder to Taylor Marsh, who noted how Obama has colluded with Karl Rove.


    Adam B, who is also known as Adam Bonin, is counsel for Daily Kos and for Red State. Adam B, who claims Obama was one of his law professors at The University of Chicago, represents a Republican blog. Adam B supports Obama, as he too is in bed with Ripublicans.

  131. mj, why do you think oprah will help in the GE? She’s said she doesn’t get involved in politics, only for Obama.

  132. I don’t think she’d “help”. But, she has a women’s show. I think it would sort of be fun to have her in our corner, and I do think she will be despite what she said about Obama being her only reason, though certainly not involved in the campaign like she has been for Obama, which is perfectly fine. Look at what she said to Hill in 2005. It fits her demo.

  133. Oprah has “flip-flopped” lol.
    But seriously, if barack obama does end up with the democratic nomination, it will be a sad day. he is guaranteed to lose the GE. All the Republicans have to do is paint him as a flaming liberal, call him a Muslim, make fun of his 3 years of Senate experience, call out his 80% absentee attendance record in the Senate, His corruption with Rezko, illegal immigration issue, raising taxes $1 Trillion, flag, nation anthem…UGH the list goes on!

    this guy will put another republican in the house, for sure!

  134. about obamas career depending on white women, responding to a black man; we need to check the b.s. at the door…

    please, no one out THERE gives a sh–!

    they will vote how they vote and all the psych ‘o’ analysis in the world wont do a damn thing…
    people arent that pliable.
    in the end, its who has the best first impression, who has the best story, who has the best ground team, who has the best GAME in town.

    and again i dont think obama has done his homework, with these midwest small town women. dont talk sex to them, cause this is the bible belt y’all…

  135. anyway,

    i dont understand why you guys spent so much time on oprah… previous polls showed her endorsement would only have a net negative impact on Obama’s chance.

    It’s beyond dumb to dispatch her to Iowa.

    Anyway, got to run, lay off poor Oprah, she has her SA school mess to deal with first.

  136. please, no one out THERE gives a sh–!

    I’d hope so, but a professional political pollster who appears to specialize in midwestern candidates came up with this.

    I suspect that the few who are enamored are probably already factored into his whopping 20%. The rest of us appear to be immune to his charms.

  137. There’s no way Oprah moves number in Iowa or NH. I’d bet money on it. I still wonder if this wasn’t just a miscommunicae. Seems just such a weird way to announce it. But, Kost is right. This is really no biggie, imo.

  138. I would, HLR (for Hillary I’m assuming ur implying :-P), but that’s right during my break and I kinda just want to take a break, ya know? We’ll see. I might depending on whether I see Hillary needing some support or not in these coming weeks. I know it might be tough, but I think hillary could clinch this if she did the right things at the right time!

  139. You are missing the point. I actually think Hillary will win IA and have stated so many times.

    I find it terribly depressing how various strategists/candidates plan their appeal to women voters.

  140. but that’s right during my break and I kinda just want to take a break, ya know?

    I hope the obama supporters come to this conclusion as well …

  141. I think Hillary needs to hold a very fun event maybe. Like a games fair, or a Christmas event in Iowa or parts of Iowa with music, games, and just some fun time mixed in with serious talk and interaction amongst Iowans.

  142. yeah, i agree. what hoagland is assuming is that the only people who would ever vote for Hillary are voting BECAUSE she is a woman?

  143. I can’t help but thing if there were more women in the political class (activists, strategists, etc), we’d see less of this kind of nonsense and more substance.

  144. I think the whole ‘Party for Hillary’ thing is a tricky idea. One, it could bring in a lot of people to hear her message. However, it also at least to me – could come off as a little hokey/gimmicky, which would turn many people off.




  146. two points:

    ‘ a LITTLE hokey and gimmicky’

    ‘ bring in ALOT of people’… hmmmm

    seriously, its an old tradition in the middle of the country, that goes back to the traveling medicine guy…

    there’s the country fair, the traveling christian concerts, the holiday craft fairs…
    its like hawking your wares… small towns come out to see the iceskate shows, the circus, the country shows… its wholesome family fun…
    we people in the city sometimes dont connect with that, but small town people live by it…

  147. Thanks for the info…I had no idea that those kind of things were actually so popular. You learn something new everyday! 🙂

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