Winners and Losers

Updated Post: Video and Mark Penn memorandum added. Don’t miss our latest polls section at right hand column with growing Hillary leads in Nevada and Iowa.

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[Note: As usual join us tonight for our debate coverage. CNN 8:00 p.m. (ET)]

As the last Democratic debate was ending we detected an immediate upsurge in anger from Hillary supporters.

By the next day the anger had spilled into the open. Joy Behar, of The View, spoke for many of us. On the Friday of the week we wrote A Terrible Resolve to describe the reaction of Hillary supporters to the debate mugging.

Today a new poll empirically confirms what we surmised after that last debate. An American Research Group Iowa poll once again demonstrates that Hillary supporters have solidified their support: 92% of those saying they support Clinton say their support is definite; “50% of those saying they support Edwards say their support is definite; 41% of those saying they support Obama say their support is definite; 67% of those saying they support Richardson say their support is definite.”

During the next 49 days the political winds will smash against all the presidential campaigns. Only the strongest structure will survive. Hillary has withstood 35 years of the fiercest storms.

Losing campaigns, will desperately focus on “plants” and “waitress tips” and insider concerns about “lobbyists” and “personality”. Winning campaigns will focus on the concerns of the American people: Social Security, Health Care, War and Peace, Jobs.

Mark Penn released a memorandum today on LEADERSHIP Mark Penn is right – the Hillary campaign must not get distracted with the games little boys play – Leadership is the issue – leadership on Social Security, Health Care, War and Peace, Jobs:

What is the most important card in this race? The leadership card.

That is the card that we see in poll after poll that analyzes why people are voting for Hillary Clinton.

And so while opponents are strategizing and re-launching their campaigns with aggressive personal attacks on Sen. Clinton, one truth remains – running for president is not a qualification for president.

The voters are looking for someone who has the strength and experience to lead, and little has changed in the last few weeks outside of the massive media coverage of the attacks.

As Senator Clinton has said, change is just a word unless you have the strength and experience to make it happen.

Sidney Blumenthal resigned from Salon yesterday and announced he is joining the Hillary campaign. Here are some of his wise words:

I believe that the reason the Republicans have promoted the talking point that Hillary is unelectable is that they fear that more than any other candidate she can create a majority coalition, win and govern. They fear more than loss in one election; they fear the end of the Republican era beginning with Nixon. They know that she has the knowledge, skill and ability to govern. They know that she has already taken everything they can throw against her and is still standing.

Just as the disintegration of the Democrats brought about the rise of the Republicans, the collapse of the Republicans has created an opening for the Democrats. But the Democrats have been victims of their own false euphoria, sanctimony and illusions before. Now, only the Democrats can revive the Republicans. Nixon, Reagan and Bush were all beneficiaries of Democratic disarray and strategic incompetence. The Democrats have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory before and it can happen again, even under these circumstances, when history is turning the Democrats’ way.

The Democrats at key junctures have been seduced by the illusion of anti-politics to their own detriment. Anti-politics upholds a self-righteous ideal of purity that somehow political conflict can be transcended on angels’ wings. The consequences on the right of an assumption of moral superiority and hubris are apparent. Their plight stands as a cautionary tale, but not only as an object lesson for them. Still, the Republican will to power remains ferocious. The hard struggle will require the most capable political leadership, willing to undertake the most difficult tasks, and grace under pressure.

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77 thoughts on “Winners and Losers

  1. hey, ready for the debate tonite. i will miss the last 20 minutes of it due to work. nervous for hillary. hoping for fairness.

  2. Beyond any shadow of a doubt, that is the most staggering poll number I have ever read. Is there any kind of precedent for that kind of number this early before the primary? For that fact, is there a precedent for that number during the primary?

  3. terrondt,
    I think this debate will be alright. The point is – it cannot go any worse that the last debate. With all the vultures going at her during the last debate she still managed to hold her ground. This time around she should be under no illusion whatsoever what sort of attacks she will come under. New issues like “Plants” “Flip-flopping” on the driver’s license issue – and so forth will be the hot topic. They will use these issues to label her as unreliable and attack her personality. The point is the moderator is not the unfair beast Tim Russert the big pumpkin.

  4. Foxnews released a new poll.

    Clinton 44(42)
    Obama 23(25)
    Edwards 12(13)

    GE matchups. Generic ticket has now narrowed down to 9 points between dems and reps.

    Clinton 47
    Giuliani 43

  5. A supporter told me yesterday that he got a push poll call from what had to be edwards’ camp. They asked if he was for obama and told him that he is “a muslim”. They then said “you can’t vote for Hillary either” and brought up whitewater or something similarly stupid. They are both using push polling now.

  6. Edward is a disgusting pig. No doubt about that! But remember he is a close buddy of Obama. Let’s keep our focus on Obama. He is the one to look out for.

  7. kostner, great numbers from the foxnews poll. i have been watching the foxnews roundtable more and more. screw cnn and msnbc.

  8. Admin, Great comments from Sidney Blumenthal who understands the dynamic at work in this election re Republicans and the mythof electability for Hill. I certainly don’t know of a candidate with hard core support of 92%. I think it is phenomenal. I expect Hillary will be taking those potshots at her and turning them on her opponents tonight. She wants to get to the real issues in this campaign. And her team, the many voices behind her, want her to lead us in confronting these things in our country. The postWatergate years are incredibly important in understanding the context of today’s antipolitic. This new era that Hillary will help to bring about is all about ending the antipolitic–the politics of tearing your opponent to shreds with lies. All that does is keep everybody away from enacting real change in this country. mollyj

  9. hi folks,

    have you guys noticed Richardson’s numbers have ticked up a notch in IA. He’s now back in 10-12% range. Mr. Nice seems to be working, I hope his handlers noticed that.

    I’m very jealous about those numbers. If he can just share 8% to Hillary in the end, Clinton is probably a shoo-in in IA. A Clinton/Richardson tag team, I’ll take it any day.

  10. From RealClearPolitics…

    RealClearPolitics Politics Nation Blog

    By Reid Wilson
    « On Access | Blog Home Page | That’s A Latta Lead »

    November 15, 2007
    Watching The Undercard
    Tonight’s Democratic show-down in Las Vegas features one definite heavyweight fight, set up by the press as Hillary Clinton versus some combination of Barack Obama and John Edwards. We noted from Philadelphia that many were using boxing metaphors, and what better venue than right off the Strip, where the biggest bouts are fought, to continue that metaphor?

    But pay attention to what is becoming an increasingly heated, if subtle, undercard. That fight, between Obama and Edwards, is a contest for the half of Democratic voters who haven’t already said they would back Clinton. Both argue that they draw the clearest contrast with Clinton, and both shy away from taking on each other. But this fight is perhaps more urgent than a battle against Clinton: United against her, her opponents might stand. Divided, they will probably fall.

    The battleground where an Obama-Edwards grudge match will be fought is Iowa. But unlike previous years, strategists for both campaigns say, this year there might be only two tickets out of the state, not the traditional three. “Whoever comes in third here is going to be in bad shape,” Edwards strategist Joe Trippi told Politics Nation in Des Moines. That candidate, he said, will be “on life support.” And the race is shaping up, in his mind, as a perfect opportunity for Edwards. Obama, he argues, “has had ten months with the whole world saying, ‘It’s between him and her,’ to make it between him and her. Guess what? He’s failed at that.”

    Clinton’s problem, says Trippi, is that much of her support is reluctant, as opposed to enthusiastic. That reluctance presents an opening for a new candidate to emerge, and when that happens, “the race resets. And when it resets, she’s going to lose a lot of her support.”

    The media’s intense focus gave Obama an opening that Trippi says he missed. “There should have been a way to leverage that [media] focus, you know, to turn the race that way,” he said. “People have looked at Barack Obama and have made a decision about him.”

    Obama backer David Axelrod thinks the subtle digs at his candidate, from the Edwards team, are just beginning. “Obviously, I think [Edwards is] a very, very determined guy. This is his second shot,” Axelrod said at an Obama event in Chariton, Iowa. “Ultimately, [Obama’s] quarrel is with a style of politics that has come to characterize Washington,” he said, and those who would “shift and dodge, and wind up where you need to get to in the short run.”

    “People look for authenticity,” Axelrod said. “They look for consistency. I think they’re looking for people to stand on long-held principles and not on sort of short-term calculated posturing.” Though the implicit shot touched some of Edwards’ own inconsistencies, the Obama strategist couldn’t help but return to his main target: “That’s, I think, one of the reasons why Senator Clinton has run into some problems.”

    At the Philadelphia debate, though, it was Edwards who got credit for being fastest on the attack and surest of foot in drawing contrasts. The clarity of those contrasts are key, Trippi said. “We’re going out every day and making sure people understand that the clearest choice in this race is between Hillary Clinton and John Edwards.”

    Obama, who has looked less steady going after his rivals, is only warming up, according to Axelrod. “[Obama] is happy to, and willing to, respond to any challenge. That’s been true throughout his political life,” said the strategist who cut his teeth in rough and tumble Chicago political circles. “He comes from a pretty tough political arena.”

    The race for the Anybody But Clinton crowd is not a race for second place. With a slim lead, if that, in Iowa and a not-insurmountable lead in New Hampshire, the presumed front-runner has her work cut out to reach the nomination. But as Edwards and Obama continue to aim fire at Clinton, the clock is ticking for them to make contrasts with each other. Tonight, the undercard is just as important as the main event.

  11. richardson is the frontrunner for vp. he could have easily joined in on the pile on last time with nothing to lose and he did not do it. dodd did it and you know what? he won’t even win here in connecticuit feb 5th.

  12. terrondt,

    I don’t believe Hillary will pick him as V.P. But you never know. I just want his IA votes. That’s it… LOL…

  13. Southern Atlantic poll: Clinton leads big, Giuliani strong in GOP
    By MIKE BAKER
    Associated Press Writer
    Thursday, November 15, 2007

    RALEIGH, N.C. – New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has more support in Southern Atlantic states _ including early primary state South Carolina _ than all of her Democratic presidential rivals combined, according to a poll released Thursday.

    Clinton has the support of 45 percent of adults in the region, far more than the 17 percent who said they’d vote for Illinois Sen. Barack Obama and the 11 percent who support John Edwards, a former North Carolina senator and a native of the region.

    The Elon University Poll found 19 percent of Democrats were undecided in the 2008 White House race. The survey of 1,374 adults from households in Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Virginia was conducted over the past two weeks.

    Adults in the Southern Atlantic region were split on party affiliation with 36 percent, or 498 respondents, favoring Democrats while 35 percent, or 476 respondents, supported Republicans.

    Nearly one-quarter of those surveyed said they were unsure which party they will support in the 2008 election. The party-affiliation question had a sampling error of plus or minus 2.7 percentage points.

    The margin of error was slightly different for party-specific questions that asked respondents which candidate they would support: plus or minus 4.5 percentage points for the Democratic primary poll, and 4.6 percentage points for the Republican poll.

    Hunter Bacot, the Elon poll director, said Clinton’s numbers show surprisingly solid support in a region that includes strong black turnout for Obama in Georgia and South Carolina, and Edwards’ appeal as a Southerner.

    “It seems like people are starting to congregate around the perceived candidate,” Bacot said. “To see this much firm decision at this point in time almost makes it a foregone conclusion that she’ll be the nominee.”

    Among Republicans, Rudy Giuliani leads with the support of 25 percent of adults, followed by Fred Thompson with 16 percent and Mitt Romney with 12 percent. Nearly 30 percent of Republican supporters are still undecided, according to the poll.

    Bacot said the numbers are bad news for Thompson, the former Tennessee senator who was expected to bring an immediate challenge to Giuliani’s lead.

    The Iraq War was the most important issue facing the nation for about one-third of respondents, with 83 percent saying it will influence their vote for the presidency.

    The survey also found that adults were most concerned about the economy (13 percent), terrorism and security (11 percent), health care costs (8 percent) and immigration (8 percent).

    http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173353510228&path=!localnews&s=1037645509099

  14. Clinton’s problem, says Trippi, is that much of her support is reluctant, as opposed to enthusiastic. That reluctance presents an opening for a new candidate to emerge, and when that happens, “the race resets. And when it resets, she’s going to lose a lot of her support.”

    Trippi is full of s***. She has more hardcore support than Obama or Edwards.

  15. As mentioned in the last post’s comments, her suport is the strongest, 92% (?) of her supporters are 100% positive of their support for her, while Edwards is in like the 60’s or 50’s and obama is on the 40’s.

  16. Admin, There’s an excellent memo by Penn on the official site that would be worth postin’ for folks before the debate tonight. You can do that faster than me probably. Otherwise, I volunteer to go git it. mollyj

  17. This is a great endorsement of Hillary by Kim Gandy, President of NOW with some excellent points about the complexities of the race. Some great quotes in here! mollyj
    __________________________________________________________________________

    Go Fish: Clinton Undaunted by “Gender Card” Allegations

    Below the Belt: A Biweekly Column by NOW President Kim Gandy

    November 15, 2007

    With a widening six-point lead separating her from Republican frontrunner Rudy Giuliani, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton remains undaunted amidst media allegations that she has played the “gender card” during debates and public speaking engagements. Are Clinton’s opponents “piling on”? Of course they are — and they’d pile onto any candidate so far in the lead. Taking advantage of that fact isn’t playing the gender card, it’s playing the game.

    Most notably slandered for comments made at her alma mater after the last debate, “In so many ways, this all-women’s college prepared me to compete in the all-boys’ club of presidential politics,” Clinton was attacked by pundits charging that the mere mention of the boys’ club was playing the victim. And when her campaign manager said, quite accurately, that the other candidates had “piled-on” Clinton at the last debate, the pundit-roar was deafening.

    Clinton met her accusers with facts — not femininity. “I don’t think they’re piling on because I’m a woman. I think they’re piling on because I’m winning.” From the looks of the senator’s press coverage, it seems she has a point.

    It should come as no surprise to the media or general public that a female candidate will bring her own perspective, grounded in her experiences as a woman in our society, to the Oval Office. Clinton, while not the first woman to run for U.S. president, is both the first female frontrunner for her party’s nomination and the first female presidential poll leader ever.

    A frequent media magnet and target as a result of her success, Clinton’s road to the top has been paved with published gender stereotypes and broadcast sexist overtones. While journalists focused on other candidate’s views about the war in Iraq, healthcare, and immigration, Clinton’s initial press was dominated with clothing critiques, hair coverage, and home décor reports. The recent “gender card” dealt by the media to draw attention away from her solid policies, effective leadership, and groundbreaking success, is no exception.

    On the Nov. 1 edition of MSNBC’s Tucker, I was asked by the host, Tucker Carlson, “What about being a woman . . . is going to make her [Clinton] a better president?” And while the idea of a female U.S. president means something very important to me and women everywhere, this obsession with Hillary’s anatomy largely misses the point. It is Clinton’s historic commitment to women’s equality and her stance on issues impacting freedom, opportunity and justice for all that will win her my vote.

    Clinton’s commitment to saving the courts, preserving birth control, abortion rights and reproductive justice, improving the economic status of women and girls, promoting civil rights and ending racism, advancing health care for all, ending discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity, stopping violence against women, and ending the Iraq War — not her possession of cleavage — led to NOW PAC’s public endorsement of her presidential bid.

    While we at NOW are all in favor of increasing the coverage of women’s issues in the media, bulletins reporting that Hillary Rodham Clinton is a woman are not exactly what we had in mind. Clinton’s press coverage, while not unique, speaks to a much larger underlying issue at hand: sexist media stereotypes working to undermine one half of the world’s population. It’s not that we don’t see women in the media. Indeed, scantily clad, provocative images of women bombard us through the television and line the pages of today’s magazines. Yet when a woman of substance approaches the limelight, her coif draws more attention than her proposal for universal healthcare coverage!

    As the debate rages on about whether Clinton can be “a grizzled veteran of rough and tough politics and then cry ‘No fair!’ when her male opponents fire a few jabs at her,” I invite you to remember our country’s once seeming distaste for political smear campaigns. The anonymous leaking of questionable allegations to de-legitimize a run for office, once looked upon unfavorably, are now acceptable means for defeating political adversaries. Come 2007, it’s enough to publicly state a candidate’s gender — apparently an insult in itself — and let the archetypal stereotypes about women fester in the heads of U.S. voters. What space for rebuttal is available to a female frontrunner whose chief complaint against her is what lies (or doesn’t) below the belt?

    Ultimately, the only thing that scares Clinton’s opponents and the media more than her running for president is her closeness to actually winning it. As the press would tell it, the fullest expression of neutering our nation lies in the realization of a gender-balanced political process. But with or without the “gender card,” Clinton’s hand is trumping that of her closest opponents. No media manufactured scandal intended to diminish her lead can put a damper on the advocacy, excitement, or level of support surrounding her campaign.

    And this brings us to the title of this week’s post — go fish. Senatorially seasoned, strong on diplomacy, issue driven, with a track record for results, Hillary’s a woman that is in it to win it. Sure the world of presidential politics has been a man’s domain in the past. But, given both the state of the nation and world affairs — can’t we at least consider shuffling the deck as an option?

  18. MollyJ, the Penn memo is an update.

    We like that Mark Penn is publically writing about something we wrote about a while back: Obama saying on the Stephanoupoulos show that Americans should judge his (Obama’s) leadership skills by the way he (Obama) runs the campaign.

  19. Great Addition with Sidney Blumenthal joining the Hillary Team..

    …..*He Get’s It!*…..

    Mr. Blumenthal describes exactly the pitfalls we’ve sustained over the years by constantly letting the republicans set the tone of governance and the agenda for the democratic party. It’s totally ridiculous to be hamstrung by a party that refuses to recognize the governance soulfully written by Lincoln in the Gettysburg Address . Reenumerated once again by Roosevelt in his New Deal the “by the people” and “for the people” and “shall not perish from this earth”..phases needing to be etched forever in their greedy minds as the true meaning of what it is to be an American.

    Mrs. S.

  20. Yeah, MJ, some great quotes in there! I hope Hill has seen it in her pregame warmup. She needs to know just how many people have got her back. mollyj

  21. Yes, Admin. I re-read the memo and remembered some of the things we’d already talked about. Thanks! mollyj

  22. By ROB CHRISTENSEN
    Raleigh News & Observer
    Thursday, November 15, 2007

    John Edwards, a former senator from North Carolina, often portrays himself as the Democratic presidential candidate who has the best chance of winning some red states, particularly in the South.

    But a new poll of voters in five Southern states shows New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton ahead by a decisive margin.

    Clinton leads in the region with 45 percent, compared to 17 percent for Illinois Sen. Barack Obama and 11 percent for Edwards, according to an Elon University Poll released Thursday.

    The survey questioned 1,374 residents in North Carolina, Virginia, South Carolina, Florida and Georgia on Nov. 4-8 and 12-14. The poll by the Elon University Institute for Politics and Public Policy had a margin of error of plus or minus 2.7 percent.

  23. Hey Celiff, Sometimes things are worth seein’ twice. That Elon College Poll is very interesting. mollyj

  24. molly, i comment on the official blog on hillary’s website on the penn memo updates. he does cover a lot what we get from here but it is always great to hear it from camp.

  25. That’s right, terrondt. Are you gonna be able to watch the debate with us tonight? That’s a good reminder for everybody, too. If you can spare change go give what you can to our girl Hill. I bet she’s sooooo ready! mollyj

  26. i going to miss the last 20 minutes of it eastern time in connceticuit. i have to be in work by 10pm here. but i will watch most of it. but my dvr will be recording it like clockwork. LUY YA HILLARY!!!!

  27. Allrighty people!!!! I am READY for SMACK DOWN!!!!!! 8)

    Last time my mind did not agree with the time zones and I missed the first hour of the debate, so I shall NOT repeat that same mistake tonight, and I will stay awake from here on out! 😀

    So, anyone know the line-up tonight??

  28. Anyone want to speculate on what weird questions will be asked tonight?

    Do you think Wolf will bring up the ‘bitch’ question, and ask Hillary…..oh..I don’t know…if she was offended of something? To lead into the topic of gender, and then to maybe go further and ask about the gender card etc??

    I hope Hillary has a few zingers ready for the drivers license question which is bound to come up. I hope wolf will only leave so much time for the others to attack her, if it’s up to them, this is all they will talk about and pound her on, pushing through with a flip flop feeling for the viewers to keep.

  29. I hope Hillary speaks passionately about the issues. I think her advisors often advise she hold back, but I prefer when she makes a strong argument like she did when she defended medicare to that journalist, or like when she was adament about social security not being in crisis.

  30. Its one less debater. so there will be more time to discuss.

    I am having a bet with my gf. she thinks edwards will repeat either of the words, lobbyists, corrupt, saber rattling, status quo, and backbone more times than Obama says “I”. Wish me luck y’all and I can get a free dinner tonight after the debate :).. going home from office right now and will blg with y’all debate time..

  31. mj, I don’t know about the Iowa scene. If it’s not south or west I’m out of my pundit zone. Yes, I love Hill the warrior, too, mj. I knew that plant with the socialised medicine question was gonna get the stay after school day routine at that journalist conference. She’s also gonna be lookin’ to do the T’ai Chi moves I would expect. I am looking for some bull by the horns opportunities where she takes a question as an opportunity to inform by speaking quite passionately and with great authority on a subject. Hell she knows more than anybody on so many things. I felt like her JJ dinner speech was incredible. The perfect mix. mollyj

  32. UAW isn’t that large here. That’s like his only union endorsement besides a few seiu chapters, and none of his are national unions, all are local/state chapters. Hillary has Afscme, AFT, machinists, UTU and utucommunications, and postal carriers among others. The 2 biggest unions around here are seiu and afscme.

  33. Going to the debate watch, see y’all after the debate. Good luck to our girl, the next prez. She’s doing so well in Nevada (: I hope she brings up the fact that she is consistently the most electable. Well, see you all in a while (:

  34. That was a great speech Molly. I found it odd that the press overlooked it. I sometimes do think there ia a tinge of sexism when reviewing a woman’s political speech than a man’s.

  35. Well, you have to factor in Edwards is running interference for Obama. So, the one to take down tonight IS Obama.

    Edwards is digging a huge hole. He has a “Plant” website up mocking Hillary..
    It’s a wonder he’s not asking for donations with this pathetic ploy!

    Mrs. S.

  36. Celiff, I got to come to Iowa if for no other reason that to meet you. You make me miss workin’ with my students.

  37. I am overseas now so, I am not sure how I can watch it. Bloody CNN doesn’t have live option to watch it from overseas. Can suggestions anybody?

  38. I bet Edwards will mention “tell the truth” and “moral authority” more than anything else..

    But he will blink – I mean flutter those brecky eyelashes – more than anything else.

  39. secret I’m currently overseas as well, and I have watched all the debates on cnn live on the web. And I am currently watching cnn on my computer now as well.

    go here:
    edition.cnn.com/video/

    at the top, there are a few options, click on LIVE VIDEO, and a pop up window appear. If your using firefox, I find this is not working, use IE, and it does, now they have the pre debate shows on….

  40. ps. secret, I’m in Europe, and here they do cut away from the international cnn to broadcast the debate live, they also, sadly, are very quick to go back to the international version.

    Why do they do that anyway? I’ve always been pissed by this, when you want news from where you are, you watch the local tv channels. When I want to follow what goes on back in the US, I want to turn on CNN and watch THAT, not what his happening locally, sheesh…

  41. mj — uaw is big where the john deere plants are. I think the uaw is most influential in blackhawk county. I’m disappointed he got it, but it was entirely predictable as it’s a regional endorsement that includes Illinois.

  42. On cnn now, they were talking about who will be there tonight, and if the order they presented them and their pictures is the line up, then here it is:

    Dodd, Edwards, Clinton, Obama, ….then I forgot to pay attention. hehe

    Of course they would put Hillary in between the boys, but I continually hate that Obama always gets a good spot.
    For ONCE, I want to see him far off to the side, and Hillary mid stand!!

  43. Looking forward all week to the debate.

    Glad Sidney will be rejoining her team.

    When I read Newsmax that Rove will be writing for Newsweek, I remembered something Mark Twain said: rumors of my untimely death have been greatly exaggerated.

  44. Groto,
    I did the same as you suggested but this is the error I am getting. Is there anyway we can get it working? May be get a US Proxy?

    STREAM BLOCKED
    CNN LIVE Video is not available in your geographic location.
    For more, go to on video on demand.

  45. Groto,
    I am in Europe as well. Sad that we cannot watch the live debate. Where as MSNBC debate – I could watch it here in Europe.

  46. Sorry about the previous guess I had, they just said on CNN, that the positioning on the stage was NOT randomly selected, the candidates themselves decided where they wanted to stand, and from left it is Biden … …. Dennis, Hillary, Obama….. this is what I remember.
    So this is good, of 7 candidates, she is in the MIDDLE, chosen by herself, haha.

    Secret I have no idea why you can’t see it, I am in europe and I entered the video the way I wrote to you, that suck that you can’t view it, I had the same problem with MsNBC, but when I changed from firefox to IE, it worked. keep trying, maybe you can search the web for live streaming or something

  47. I’m not familiar with us proxy.

    But I have had that problem in the past as well, that the streaming is blocked, I have no idea what makes this happen

    Do you see the pop up window? do you see a ‘menu’ on the right side inside that window? there shall be a few video options, as they are showing senate debate, and house debate, etc, and another of the debate live, if you see something there click it, just try and see

  48. Groto usually NYtimes has the video after it is over. Whilst I cannot watch it live – it is atleast something

    **********************
    Can someone confirm that live blogging is on here by admin??
    *******************

  49. Okay, Lou Dobbs is getting on my nerves, with his no nothing pre debate talking…Geesh don’t these guy research the candidates before going on tv talking mush?

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