Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, John Edwards, Biden, Dodd, Kuch, Gravel Debate

Jut Jaw

UPDATE:

We will post our Iowa debate coverage below our initial post (below the ABC News comments directly below). Also, as noted in the comments ABC News will post the debate after 2:00 p.m. EDT at their website. C-Span will re-air the debate at 6:30 and 9:30 p.m. EDT.
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Hopefully Barack Obama will get coaxed out from under his bed and join the other Democrats, like Hillary Clinton, who are not too afraid to debate – and deign to appear this morning on This Week.

We will be cheering on our plucky heroine and cover the debate here at 9:00 a.m. – 10:30 a.m. EDT.

A pdf file with a list of airtimes of the debate in various cities can be found HERE.

Once again, anticipate attacks on Hillary. The probable attacks are due to Hillary’s big leads in just about every poll and the absolutely desperate need for the other campaigns (especially the Edwards and Obama campaigns) to do something, anything, to try to alter reality and deny Hillary the nomination she has earned.

ABC News has this assessment of what might happen at the debate, called Edwards, Obama Ready Debate Attacks:

It all ads up to a toxic, fascinating mix of attitudes, egos, and messages going into Sunday morning’s Democratic debate in Des Moines. [snip]

As always, it will be the frontrunner, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., who is in the spotlight (and who just might use words like “lead” and “strong”). Also, per usual, the second tier — Biden, D-Del., joined by Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., and Gov. Bill Richardson, D-N.M. — are looking for breakthroughs.

But this is just as big a moment for Obama, D-Ill., and Edwards, D-N.C., who are desperate to break the three-way tie they have with Clinton in Iowa.

ABC assesses the candidate’s strengths and weaknesses (Hint: Hillary is doing well, the others are falling apart):

Clinton has gone a long way to erasing her problems in the Hawkeye State, while Edwards has slipped in the one state he absolutely, positively must win, and Obama needs to answer growing concerns about his experience and common touch (as if the Pakistan and arugula storylines have morphed into one).

We are all in agreement on the snake pit Hillary is courageously and without complaint facing down:

“It could well be the most confrontational (debate) to date,” writes Washingtonpost.com’s Chris Cillizza. “The question for Obama and Edwards is whether they can knock Clinton off her stride. Clinton’s extraordinary discipline as a candidate has shown through in the first group of televised debates.”

You can bet everyone else on that stage would like to change her undefeated record.

Danger, Danger Hillary Clinton:

For fireworks, keep an eye on Edwards, who has sharpened his verbal barbs in recent days (and not just when he’s talking about “she-devil” Ann Coulter). (He will also be the only candidate to come to the debate site at Drake University through the front door — an intriguing play by the ‘everyman’ candidate.)

In the midst of his six-day Iowa bus tour, Edwards told ABC News that Obama is engaging in a “fantasy by suggesting he can work with Washington lobbyists, and said suggested that Clinton would “replace one group of Washington insiders with another group of Washington insiders.”

Edwards added, “I mean, Sen. Clinton has been part of Washington for a very long time.”

Certainly Bill Clinton has been part of Washington long enough to know how this kind of comment plays (and if he doesn’t, he can always ask Kerry).

“Every single political leader I talk to says, ‘I hope your wife wins. We want the world to like America again,'” the former president said in Reno, Nev., on Friday, per the AP’s Scott Sonner.

Care to elaborate, Mr. President, on why these world leaders don’t want Obama, Edwards, Biden, Richardson, or Dodd to win?

Obama’s Cowardice (and yet another gaffe – Is Obama on a major gaffe a week schedule and a minor gaffe a day schedule?):

What does it say about Obama’s confidence coming into Sunday’s debate that he doesn’t want too many more of these forums? Only eight (!) more, Obama’s campaign manager, David Plouffe, said in a message posted to the campaign Website Saturday.

“We simply cannot run the kind of campaign we want and need to, engaging with voters in the early states and February 5 states, if our schedule is dictated by dozens of forums and debates,” Plouffe said.

He’s probably right, but it isn’t being lost on many observers that the first major candidate to make non-participation in debates a policy is also the one whose debate performances have been shakiest.

“Critics and opponents can be expected to charge that Obama is dodging debates, because he has made several statements that Clinton and others have painted as reflecting ill-preparedness,” writes Politico’s Mike Allen.

The other candidates who at least are not naive and irresponsible:

Biden maximizes the oomph of his first ad buy by launching it on the eve of the debate.

It’s him with an Iowa cornfield as backdrop, straight to camera, talking about a trip back from Iraq where he was accompanied by the coffin of a deceased U.S. soldier.

“They turned that cargo plane into a cathedral,” Biden says, “And all I could think of was the parents waiting at the other end.”

Per the Des Moines Register’s Abby Simons, the ad “differs from other candidates’ spots that feature their positions on a gamut of issues, as well as a plethora of schmoozing with Iowans.”

As something of a viewer’s guide to today’s debate, The New York Times’ Patrick Healy and Michael Cooper have a nugget-filled peek at candidates’ debate preparation.

Obama’s naive and irresponsible answer was not off the cuff – it was prepared? Yikes! It’s even worse than we thought:

Healy and Cooper also report that Obama’s answer to the question about talking to rogue leaders was prepared — though not scripted — and that Clinton was loaded for bear when asked to respond.

“Mrs. Clinton had been set to underscore what her campaign aides consider to be her commander-in-chief toughness and her experience in Washington — even encouraged by some advisers to use action verbs and adjectives like ‘lead,’ ‘strong’ and ‘experienced,’ they write. “So she chose to disagree, forcefully but carefully.”

This from Obama strategist David Axelrod: “There’s this theory that Obama needs to somehow prove his machismo by rhetorically headhunting in the debates,” he said. “But that’s not who he is. He’s going to make the points he thinks are important, but he doesn’t think the country needs someone who just scores points in debates by attacking.”

Will Axelrod stand by those words by this time tomorrow?

Prayers and fingers crossed for Hillary on this dangerous August morning.

===========================

=============================

Here we go.  George Stephanoupoulos (hereinafter “George”) and David Yepsen. 

 George:  (reads polls)  Big question is Obama Ready?  Can Hillary unite Country? 

George:  Is Obama ready Senator Clinton?

Hillary:  I am running on my record.  Not running against anybody.  Vote for me and my plans.

George:  You did say Obama is “naive and irresponsible”?

Hillary: We had a particular disagreement.  The next president will have many challenges I think with such a big agenda you should not telegraph your position to adversaries.

George: Senator Dodd you implied Obama is not ready?

Dodd:  I think it is irresponsible to suggest an attack on Pakistan.  You will not have time to not be ready.  Experience will matter for the next president.

Senator Biden:  This was about Pakistan.  We have a Musharaff policy not a Pakistan policy.

George: You said about Obama “He is not ready.” 

Richardson: Obama represents Change, Hillary represents experience, with me you get both (laughs from audience and Hillary) 

George: Is Obama ready?

Richardson: Senator Obama represents change.

Obama: People are not criticizing me on the substance of my positions.  There is a substantive difference between me and Senator Clinton on meetings and taking out Osama Bin-Laden.  We should not have strategic ambiguity with the American people.  We need fundamental change.  That will require agressive diplomacy.

George: Senator Clinton, You criticized Obama for his nuclear weapons comments but (video played) you said something similar about Iran. 

Hillary: The context is I was speaking out about Bush’s potential attack on Iran nuclear facilities with nuclear weapons.  We should not use hypotheticals.  Pakistan is on a knife’s edge and you have to be very careful what you say. 

Obama:  There is no hypothetical.  We have to deal with the problem of terrorists in Pakistan.

Edwards: We have a clear path to work with our friends in Europe.  Musharaff is not a wonderful leader but he does help us in a dangerous and volatile situation.  Obama has the right to express his view.

George: But is Obama right?

Edwards: I don’t think it is a good idea to talk about hypotheticals. 

—————-

Gravel: I think they are all wrong.  Congress should block Bush from attacking Iran.

Richardson: A president should not talk about hypotheticals.  We need to get allies against terrorism.  Stop loose nuclear weapons.

George: (video of Rove) AP wrote an article saying Dems are worried about Hillary hurting the Dem tickets locally. 

Obama: I think there is something bigger at stake.  Many of our problems predate Bush.  A winning strategy is not crafted by dividing into Red and Blue.  I’m against conventional thinking, conventional Washington thinking.

George: But you have criticized Senator Clinton?

Obama: I am interested in building a new majority. 

George: So the answer is yes.

Obama: The answer is I am the best person to bring change.

Edwards: America wants change.  The status quo is a loser. Who is most likely to bring change.  We need to fight lobbyists. 

George: So you say Senator Clinton is not?

Edwards: I asked Senator Clinton not to take lobbyist’s money.  I asked the other candidates to join me.  Senator Clinton said no.

Hillary: Rove is not going to endorse me.  I had 18 wonderful years in Arkansas, won in upstate NY.  Republicans will attack and bring up negatives for all Democrats.  I know how to beat them.  What matters is the American people.  The American dream.  New jobs.  What I fought for more than 35 years. 

George:  Edwards says you take lobbyists money and you are not for change.

Hillary: I took on special interests on reform and health care.  The artificial distinction is to deny lobbyist money but take money from lobby connected people.

Edwards: Lobbyists stopped healthcare.  Fundamental question is do we make deals with them or ignore them to get healthcare.  What will bring change? 

George: Senator Dodd will you take the Edwards challenge.

Dodd: I am for public financing.  How you vote is what matters not where you get your money.  These are situational ethics.  It takes leadership to get things done. 

George: Dennis Kucinich is this an artificial debate?

Kucinich: You are trying to shut out other voices from this debate.  Americans need real choice.

—————————

George:  Iraq is important to Iowa voters.  (video of Biden ad).

Yepsen: Richardson, is Biden right on Iraq.

Richardson: No, I am.  We need a full strategy for Iraq and all our troops must get out.  No residual forces.

Biden: There is a lot at stake in HOW we leave Iraq.  I have a plan to separate the parties in Iraq.  It will take at least a year to get the troops out.  What about the civilians in the green zone?

Richardson: Experts such as Cordesman agree with me that we can get the troops out in 6 months. 

Yepsen: Senator Clinton, who is right?

Hillary: Biden is right that we need planning that is why I have pressured the pentagon to plan.  We all agree there is no military solution.  The political situation the Iraq government is not capable.  Richardson is right that we need a lot of diplomacy.  This is a massive complicated undertaking.

George: So Richardson is wrong that all troops can be out by the end of the year?

Hillary: Biden is right.  It will take a lot of time to get out troops and equipment.  We don’t know if Turkey will let us go through Turkey. 

George: Anyone disagree?

Gravel:  I disagree with everyone. 

—————

George: Edwards, can you get the troops out by December?

Edwards: We will all end the war.  We have small differences unlike the Ripublicans.

Richardson: I’ll ask Clinton and Biden, how do you protect the non-combat troops?  Bring in Iran, Syria, Turkey etc. We need stability but we need to get all troops out, no residual forces.

Biden: You have to separate the parties like we did in the Balkans.  There is much more at stake here than ending the war.  If it ends badly there will be decades of fighting. 

George:  Biden, the fundamental difference is can we get all the troops out by December.

Biden:  Can’t be done by December.  Do what we did in the Balkans.

Richardson: why residual troops?

Biden: because there are thousands of civilians.

Obama: Joe is right on how long it will take.  Clinton laid out the problems.  Edwards is right there is little difference between us.  I wish they had asked the right questions before we got in.  Cheney and Rumsfeld had experienced.  That judgment moving forward is important.  Biden might be right on partition of Iraq. 

George:  Obama, what are the differences right now between you and Clinton

Obama: We need to put pressure on Ripublicans.  There are no good options. 

Kucinich: It was a Democratic Senate that voted for the war.  You keep funding the war.  I have a plan. 

————

Viewer question:  power of prayer, personal God.

Hillary: I believe in prayer.  Do not presume about God.

Dodd: Agree with Hillary

Edwards: I pray.  To Christ.

Gravel: I believe in love. Many who pray want to go to war.  Love.

Richardson: Prayer is personal. 

Biden: Pray before and that you have the courage.

Obama: Pray

Kucinich: I have been praying to God you would call on me. (laughs from all).

—————-

Viewer question: how to protect family farms?

Dodd: We need to extend broadband access.  Bring opportunity to rural america.

Yepsen: How do you fashion trade agreements without hurting farmers.

Edwards: Trade agreements have been good for multi-national corporations but not family farmers.  I would reverse that.  Real labor and environmental standards and against currency manipulations like Chinese do.

Clinton: I agree with John and do 3 things, focus on family farms, we have 34,000 family farms in NY so I work with them and their difficulties such as getting goods into Canada; trade needs to be win-win.  Quit being taken advantage of.

Obama: Good recommendations.  Our congress subsidizes big farms and hurts family farms.  On trade, we need a good negotiator.

George: Should we cap subsidies like Obama says?

Richardson: Smart trading.

BREAK

———————-

Viewer question: Ever not tell the full truth?

Gravel: Everyone else is lying.

Biden: My problem is saying too much about what I think.

Kucinich: I am always saying what others are afraid to say.

Obama: On energy we have talked about global warming.  There will be costs involved.  We don’t discuss this enough. 

Edwards: In my case, the Iraq vote.  I had huge internal conflict.  But did not express my distrust of George Bush.

Clinton: I regret giving George Bush the authority he abused.  I was assured privately and publically they would pursue diplomacy.  Bush had no intention of doing what he said he would do. 

Richardson: I am making about 1 mistake a week.  I am not a scripted candidate.  But I perform.  We will end evesdropping and Guantanamo and equal role for legislature and restore confidence.

Dodd:  Last fall the abandonment of habeus corpus. 

Yepsen: Performance pay for teachers?

Dodd: we need fundamental reform of No Child Left Behind.  I think we need more resources for teachers in tough school districts.  Snapshots of how we are doing is not a good idea. 

Obama: I spoke with teachers in Iowa.  Teachers are frustrated with teaching for tests. 

Clinton: I support incentive pay for schoolwide performance.  Teachers want to do the job.  Kids from disadvantaged areas need more help.  Reform No Child Left Behind.  We need a conversation with teachers, children, parents.  We act as if our schools are unchanging, we need to bring technology to classes. Pre-school.

Richardson: Scrap NCLB.  Arts in schools

Gravel: Politics as usual.  We are 46% in literacy in the world.  We need competition in education.  [Attacks Obama on 100,000 more troops]

Obama: We can implement a performance pay system but only with teacher cooperation.

Kucinich: How to do this?  15% cut in pentagon budget for universal pre-school. 

Biden: My wife is a teacher.  Performance based pay at the beginning with best students getting high salaries. 

George: Turmoil in the Markets.  Should Federal Reserve lower all interest rates?

Hillary: No easy yes or no.  But good move on the discount rate.

Dodd: good move, but need help for homeowners.

Edwards: good

Gravel: follow the money

Richardson: more transparency.

Biden: more transparency

Obama: need more liquidity, tough regulation.  Blame lobbyists. 

Kucinich: they are bailing out money lenders. 

George: Decisive moment in your life?

Kucinich: when my family was living in a car.

Obama: From High School to college.  I was an angry young man. 

Biden: Civil rights movement.  You can make a difference.

Richardson: My wife marrying me. and 9/11

Gravel: Representative government is broken. 

Edwards: My dad trying to learn using public television.

Dodd: Peace corps and John Kennedy.  Week before my father died.

Clinton: the women’s movement.  Civil rights movement.  Some known to history, some not.  My mother, who gave me confidence. 

—————-

It’s over. 

Analysis next. 

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184 thoughts on “Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, John Edwards, Biden, Dodd, Kuch, Gravel Debate

  1. We posted this at our Hillary Headlines section. Iowans are so over Obama:

    Clinton addressed the crowd first. “It was unions that organized workers, that gave them better wages and working conditions and benefits like health care and pensions,” she said. “And what is happening now is that the American middle class is under assault.”

    The crowd thinned out after Edwards’ speech, leaving scores of empty seats for Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois, who spoke third. The rest of the field spoke to mostly empty rows.

    http://www.examiner.com/a-888520~Democrats_Preach_Virtue_of_Labor_Unions.html?cid=sec-promo

  2. I just read that article, and I love it! It would have been interesting tho to see if Hillary spoke third and Obama fourth, if the crowd would have staid till Hillary had spoken and left before Obama spoke, if they did THAT would have been a major headline stealer!!

    But still good, Obama must realize soon that his appeal is fading, people are waking up.

    I can’t wait for the debate, I will be watching for updates here on this site, it seems they won’t stream it online, oh well.
    Thank goodness for this site! 🙂

  3. Well dang, I have been up since 4:00 AM hoping to watch this debate online. Sending thoughts of good thoughts to Hillary! Thanks for the great pre-debate commentary, as always! –mollyj

  4. Here is becoming increasingly clear to me why Hillary is doing so very well: she is ALREADY the president in her mind. Like any sucessful person, they imagine themselves being a lawyer, engineer, actor, ect. and then doing all the right things to formally acheive that success.

    And this is why she really has no competition, she is already the president, the others are still toying with the idea!

  5. Psymac: I know what you’re saying, and I suspect you are right. I do think she can “see” herself clearly as Commander in Chief. It’s the power of “visioning” but also, in my mind, it is the depth and breadth of her experiences that make this come across so clearly. That’s why she is so “ready” to “hit the ground running” as has been said. How exciting to think we’ve got a presidential candidate who can start getting things done from Day 1. –mollyj.

  6. I think this can also explain why so many describe and see her a Presidential! Because they see her as President through her. I love it.

  7. “Edwards: We have a clear path to work with our friends in Europe. Musharaff is not a wonderful leader but he does help us in a dangerous and volatile situation. Obama has the right to express his view.

    George: But is Obama right?

    Edwards: I don’t think it is a good idea to talk about hypotheticals. ”

    Wow, did Edwards just bitch slap Obama??!!! haha, love it, good round to ask this question to everyone, certainly makes the argument that Obama is inexperienced is a question we deserve to ask.

  8. looks like Hillary is doing great as usual. Very sharp, not defensive at all when dealing with Edwards’ stupid lobbyists money attack.

    ‘artificial distinct’. LOL. That killed him.

  9. screenshot of Hillary :
    images.huffingtonpost.com/2007-08-19-Hillarytakesthehighroad.JPG
    she looks great!!

  10. The focus on Obama being ready to be president has thrown him off course. Not good for Obama. He is trying to get to his talking points, but the beginning questions have hurt him.

  11. Good morning all:

    The Vennochi post is nothing new. Party
    officials don’t know when to shut up and
    let the primary process be.

    In my life time, it started in ’68 with the anit-
    Vietnam crowd fighting LBJ. It got
    so intense the scism destroyed the party.
    You had followers of George Wallace, LBJ
    stallwarts, strong civil rights left and
    the anti-war radical elements trying to get
    under the democratic tent. It was a
    a nightmare. Just view the Chicago
    demonstrations.

    By ’72, the ketch phase was ABM, anybody
    but McGovern. This fracture of the Democratic
    party lead to the ’74 party reform convention
    in Kansas City. No one was happy with the
    reorganization of the party. Essentially,
    the party functions today under those fundamental
    changes as amended over time.

    So every presidential election cycle there is
    an AB_ movement. Anybody, but…..
    The democratic party puts its emphasis on issue
    vis a vis the republicans. They have
    systematic driven northeast moderately liberal
    candidates from their ranks.

    Over time the Repub’s obsorbed the southern
    conservative democrats primarily over racial
    issues. They now have morphed to more
    conservative social issues. The Repubs
    are very much a narrow issues party.
    The democrats tend to tackle too many
    issues because they are the big tent.
    Because this is so, you can find any number
    of political operatives in the party that will
    comment on who is electable or not. They
    haven’t learned that some times you need
    to say nothing in order to win. If you don’t
    win, you can’t do anything anyhow.

    So to me this is nothing new. It the Democratic
    Party way. Too bad!!!!!!!!!

  12. SOunds like John is on the attack. How effective does he sound, Admin? Unravelled, as he has been recently? Is Obama same o same o?

  13. No one is going to do anything to block Hillary from the winning through.
    My father used to say “a clever politician is one who knows there is a tomorrow”. Why not change course if it is clear today.

  14. mollyj:

    The way the debate began by addressing the Obama readiness question and whether Hillary is electable or hurt the party seems to have defanged both Edwards and Obama. They both in the course of the debate agree that there was little difference between Dems on the issues.

    Obama tried to get back to the prepackaged attacks but they had lost their sting. Ditto Edwards.

    This debate was actually very thoughtful and gave the top 3 time to address the 2 big questions. This deflated the anxiety of further anti-Hillary attacks.

    UPDATE: Kostner hit it right. Obama wound up agreeing with others on Iraq. Axelrod’s head must have turned 360 degrees.

  15. Thanks, Admin. Guess I better see about gettin’ a t.v. and satellite or I’ll never get through this election. –mollyj

  16. 2 other big pluses for Hillary.

    The questions on her rejecting the nuclear option on Iraq — her answer was very good. She explained herself well without giving any ground and in fact repeating that Obama was irresponsible in answering hypotheticals.

    On the electatility issue, is she too unpopular, she knocked that one out too. She also got it out that the Ripublicans will smear any Democrat and that their negative numbers will rise. She got applause for that one.

    A lot of Iowa voters made up their minds today.

    Kucinich might have helped himself a bit too.

    Edwards was a bit better today too. He appeared more rational. Probably due to not being able to attack due to the way the debate began.

    Obama tried to hold on to his position, but could not. With every candidate basically saying he was wrong to answer hypotheticals they all almost just came out and outright said Obama is not ready.

    Obama appeared deflated after coming prepared to do battle.

  17. admin,

    I agree. So far Hillary is great as usual. The other second-tier candidates Edwards, Biden, Richardson are all better today. This is really not good news for Obama.

  18. mollyj, it will be online soon. sure to be some youtube soon as well.

    It was good to see.

    There will be a lot of tears today at Obama and Edwards headquarters as they realize that another debate has gone by with Hillary getting the job done. This is a good setup for Labor Day weekend and the traditional beginning of campaign season (boy, is that an outdated model).

    All the Naderites who kept saying that national polls don’t matter and that it is too early will have to eat crow soon. They said those things in January, then February, March, April and May. By June they were not so sure and said the same bromides with more anger, less confidence. By July, there was no confidence in what they were saying, just lots of anger and lots of confusion. August the first hints of resignation have appeared.

    It’s the grief cycle.

  19. just saw the debate on my dvr. our hillary did well. im a bit surprized edwards was not zinged on the katrina foreclousure money thing. but all in all hillary came in the solid frontrunner and left the solid front runner. i can see why obama wants to scale back the debates. he gains NOTHING!!!!

  20. Thanks for the commentary, Admin. Just saw a few highlights on ABC online. Showed Hill answering question re negatives. Great answer and response from crowd. She’s so on her game–believe it’s a grand slam for her debate-wise. She’s it. Just gotta keep the momentum goin’, the money flowin’ and be ready for all manner of b.s. that others will throw her way. Can’t wait to see it. She is a joyful candidate as you pointed out the other day. IT is so true. And bo can talk all he wants about hope; the truth is, Hillary lives it. She is hope. –mollyj.

  21. ABC News did a tepid “liveblog” of the debate.

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/08/live-blogging-1.html

    Here are some comments from there:

    8:59 am CT: The break update — I for one expected more hand-to-hand combat on stage — but it may be too early in the day (or too early in the cycle) for that. Edwards delivered the messages he wanted — but he needed to be sharper to make himself more of a factor. So far, Obama’s “bumper car” line is probably most memorable. Clinton still rising above the rest of the field — why not, as long as you’re leading in the polls?

    8:34 am CT: Edwards gets applause with a line that could have been delivered by Clinton: “Any Democratic president will end this war. That’s what we know.” And the Republicans are “George Bush on steroids.” So far, this is his strongest debate performance.

    8:29 am CT: So the first half hour hits the two big issues — Clinton’s electability, and Obama’s experience. They skate through OK, but no question Clinton took the most incoming fire. So far, you’ve got to think Edwards is happiest with how this debate is going, with Obama a close second.

    8:21 am CT: Clinton gives a savvy response: “I don’t think Karl Rove’s going to endorse me … but I find it interesting that he’s so obsessed with me.” And her negative ratings, she says, are because she’s a fighter. She loves startig sentences like this: “The reason why we’re going to win…”

    8:10 am CT: The difference on ruling out nukes? “You’ve got to put it into context,” Clinton said. “This was not a hypothetical.” That’s a better answer than what her campaign said a few weeks back, that she was speaking then as a senator and now as a presidential candidate. Obama’s retort: “There was no difference.” Then comes the politics of hope — decrying the “gamesmanship.” Interesting exchange, though so far a subdued debate.

    8:02 am CT: Sen. Clinton decided not to take the first opportunity to question Sen. Obama’s qualifications to be president. “You don’t have to be against anybody,” she said. Words that can only be spoken by a front-runner.

  22. i try my best admin, but the naderite crowd puts me to the test. i would also like to apoligize to sandy. i sent her a email about how to recommend diaries on mydd and i screwed up. the recommend link is on the RIGHT side of the mydd page. not left.

  23. I just saw Hillary’s “last word” on hillaryhub.com. She speaks eloquently about those who helped her get to where she is today… a tribute to those in the women’s movement (“women, some known to history; some not”, the civil rights movement and her mother. She is so gracious and strong.

  24. Kegs, that’s Michelle hunched over a laptop pecking away to vote again and again. That’s Axelrod’s latest strategy.

    MollyJ, the youtube video was added to the debate post, just before the transcript of the debate begins.

  25. funny, everytime i think the real full fledged assault on hillary is going to happen in the debates it does not really pan out that way. little jabs. gravel maybe but he is nooooo threat. just a little old fart pest.

  26. the internet polls are heavily tilted by the nutkooks. unscientific to the extreme. take with a BIG HUGE grain of salt.

  27. Yes, terrondt, one of them is over on MYDD right now boastin the ABC poll results. I think this debate was more a wash than ahything. That said, I think Edwards faired better than Obama, which is terrible for Obama.

  28. hey i just checked in with the hillaryclinton.com blogg. one of the posters mentioned bill clinton’s birthday. shame on me for forgeting he was born in august 1946. HAPPY BITHDAY BILL!!!. now let’s make his 64th bithday in the white house as first man in the white house in 2009.

  29. I’m gonna go and try and watch the entire debate, abc has a few short clips online, but I can’t get the whole feeling of the debate from just that, maybe I have to wait until someone puts up all parts of the debate on youtube, I’ll be back and comment then, I need to get informed.

    But just a quick comment on something Edwards said at a point. He just basically repeated Hillarys line from one of the first debates that got so much attention. “The difference between us are minimal, the difference between us and the republicans are major” or something close, he basically repeated it, did he think no one remembers? Let alone Hillary standing right there listening to this unoriginal copycat!

  30. A general observation. Considering the debate
    was at 6 am local time, I think they all did
    well. You can tell they were tired somewhat.
    There were few highs and lows. It was pretty
    even. Of course, Hillary, and I am bias, did
    well. Her last answer should smooth over
    the flack she is getting from far left womens
    groups. Escpecially, some of the writerw at
    The Nation and other such periodicals.

  31. Yeah, Kegs, I agree. I would also add, though she’s said something similar before, her stating that she regrets voting to give Bush authority, while not apologizing, will probably be a net positive for her going forward.

  32. Admin, I hope you do a post regarding the
    Vennochi post from overnight. I really
    think this is important for Hillary supporters
    who may be new to politics to learn.
    It will help expose the internal politics of
    the democratic party.

  33. mj, the vote issue is fading fast. The public
    is asking where are you today and where
    will you take me tomorrow.

    I am surprised that the G-D question was
    fumbled by all. It is a very basic question.
    Some religious beliefs hinge on pre-ordination.
    Human beings are falable. A strong religious
    populations praying can direct the countrys
    destiny. More importantly, it is a subtle
    question of religion in public discourse. It
    was an easy question to bring in religious conservatives. Do you or do you not believe
    in the separation of church and state.
    into the party.

  34. Ok, Kegs. Thank you. That was a great piece. I was disappointed but not surprised by the “Hillary drags tickect” or “Hillary can’t win” meme’s pushed by fellow Democrats. It’s pathetic.

  35. guys, i just saw meet the press on mydvr and i nearly fell out of my chair. the roundtable FINNALLY admitted what we here allready know. that hillary is running a good caimpaign and is well ahead. i also noticed that obama shrill robinson has not been on the last few weeks. anybody saw this week’s show?

  36. Thanks Kegs. This quote is a real beauty: Even Obama’s wife, Michelle, is starting to show the strains, ominously warning an Iowa crowd that “The game of politics is to make you afraid, so that you don’t think!”
    She seems to characterize Hillary as playing the fear card. What crap!

  37. I’m going out for a while. My wife is having
    a Mah Jong gathering at the house.

    Hey Terry, what color did you wife pick out?

  38. I am seeing the debate late because we have had weather reports all day where I live (7 inches of rain since midnight and lots of flooding). It’s only part of the way through and I think Hillary is doing well. No-Bomb-A is ripping off other candidates left and right. Biden did well on the prayer/disaster question. Edwards looks okay, but not doing enough to become No. 2- but nice line on hypotheticals and hitting No-Bomb-A. Richardson did well. Kucinich as always is funny and it’s apparent his wife adores him. Dodd is answering questions with great dexterity and I could see him or someone like him being a VP nominee. Gravel is increasingly erratic and a joke. Overall, Hillary is doing the best given the Rove question and the Pakistan question. She’s enduring the most heat, and for that doing the best. BTW- No-Bomb-A fudged the “tell the truth” question and his upper lip needed a closer shave and he sure is sweating a lot.

    Right now, the Abcnews poll has been nutrootsed to death. No-Bomb-A is ahead by 1400 votes. oh, well. So what. His supporters are delusional.

  39. terrondt,

    Like you, I absolutely hate that Obama shrill Robinson. He often uses some false information and lies to bolster Obama. I caught him once or twice on TV. He’s touting Obama was well ahead in early state polls. What planet is he on?

    I agree with everybody. It surprises me how feeble and subtle those attacks against Hillary were in the debate. Obama and Edwards are obviously afraid of going negative hard. They were boxed in.

    This debate is pretty much a wash. Even political junkies do not even care in a Sunday morning.

    Hillary came in as a front runner and came out unscathed.

  40. Kegs, the Boston Globe article is another example why Hillary has to get the nomination. The Dem Party has to learn to act like a party. these consultants and loose guns have to be brought to heel. they are either stupid or self-serving and just want to be on TV and will say anything to get attention and be quoted. Usually they are stupid, self-serving, and attention starved so these idiots have to be made aware of the concept of message control. idiots. The Hillary campaign post nomination will do what it can to muzzle these fools.

    The daily news article is very good. The Hillary campaign is blocking off all exits for Obama to break free. Good to see that what we noticed about Michelle has been noticed by others less Pink than we are. The entire Goodwin article could easily be mistaken for an article we wrote. What Goodwin calls the “wackadoos” we call the nutroots. The “wackadoos” will never grow up – what has happened is that the adults (and we include 12 year olds and above as adults if they understand the concept of winning) have decided to make their voices heard and not let the wackadoos think for 1 second that they will run Hillary out of this race.

    It is “last call” for Obama and the wackadoos.

  41. it was exhuasting. we had to sand the wall down, then soap wash it., then rinse with clean water. 2 coats of paint. im still sore. took all day. 9am to 8pm.

  42. guys, i noticed gallup has a new national poll for the repukes, but what about the dems? monday maybe?

  43. terrondt,

    you’re a poll whore. LOL. Remember gallup is very volatile due to its unweighted methodology. I don’t believe there’s any movement in polls these days.

    Just caught foxnews focus group interview a little. I was laughing loud. They were pimping for Obama again and declared him as a ‘winner’.

    LOL. I remember last time after the ‘dictator’ debate, foxnews also certificated Obama as a winner. We all know what’s happening since then.

    LOL. Everybody has a nice Sunday afternoon. See you guys.

  44. Well, they didn’t use the question I e-mailed in, but they did use a variation of it regarding the interest rates and sub-prime lending. Darn. I would have liked to hear if they would roll back the bankruptcy code changes and how they would bail out buyers who were sucked into vicious, lopsided lending practices. Maybe next time.

    Well, the debate just ended and turned to a WNBA game. I get no roundtable discussion. 🙁 Anyone know where I can get that? Now I am off to HuffPo to see how badly they mangle it in an effort to attack Hillary. Anyone else turned off by Arianna’s absolute hatred of all things Hillary?

  45. OkieAtty, Arianna is a former right winger. She used to trash Hillary in the 90’s. This is nothing new for her. She absolutely hates Hillary, probably because Hillary is more successful than her. She deletes pro-Hillary comments from her website. It’s bizarre.

  46. mj,
    i can’t resist your suggestion to go to huff. It’s actually pretty amusing… Some excerpts…

    Hillary’s pugnacious demeanor also gets her out of George’s gotcha. When he took the time to play a clip of Hillary contradicting herself on the nuclear option with Iran, she defiantly and firmly said his criticism did not apply — it was a specific case, she was responding to Bush, etc. Her excuses were substantively very flimsy, but she made clear that anyone pushing the point would face her wrath… and the best the rest of these would-be Presidents could do was to meekly note in passing that she had in fact contradicted herself. This is especially remarkable in Obama’s case, since the issue only came up when she attacked him for his inexperience. She is clearly the bully on this playground. And given what has happened to the last several Democratic nominees in their general elections, that has its appeal.


    Note that George has set up a direct confrontation between Hillary and Obama here. The disagreement on the facts you can read about in the paper — what “wins” these confrontations in this setting is body language and tone. Hillary is not only firm, but slightly angry and disapproving when her integrity is challenged — her posture stiffens and her brow furrows and she raises her voice. She is not going to stand for attacks on her or her positions.

    Obama, by contrast, attempts to take the high road. His response minimizes the disagreement rather than sharpening it as Hillary does, and while he stands firm, he projects serenity instead of toughness, looking disapproving only fleetingly. This shows a form of strength, and is a valid strategy if your toughness has already been established. But next to Hillary it is not clear that he is showing quite enough toughness, enough firmness. She makes clear with her body language when she objects to something. With Obama, you often have to listen closely to what he says to know where he objects.

    Why is this so important? Remember the Swift Boaters. The specific facts of the Swift Boat accusations were not the issue. The issue was that when John Kerry’s was challenged personally on his integrity, he would not stand up for himself. How then could Americans trust him to stand up for them? This is a dangerous world, and voters are looking for a leader who will stand up for all of us when our enemies challenge us.


    Obama is taking the tack that we should all get along across the parties. He started by attacking the GOP and then said the problems we have stem back through Democratic administrations. I don’t think that’s a winning strategy after 6 years of corruption, incompetence, and destruction of the Constitution. The point is not “why can’t we all get along,” but “let’s get the Republicans out of here, and if any of them want to cross the aisle to work toward a good America again, we’re happy to have them join us.”

    Hillary had a very strong answer about breaking down the distinction between taking money from lobbyists vs. taking the money from the people who give it to them. People got it, as you can see from the applause.

  47. Some final thoughts: Hillary Clinton continues to look strong. Her final comment about her mother being her role model after talking about the women’s movement was a nice conclusion. Obama turned in a better performance than usual, but he’s not hitting any home runs. Edwards continues to connect with voters. He looked stronger and more definitive today on national security, and started weaving in his history, particularly in his final answer about his father trying to better himself by learning through watching public television. Richardson, like Hillary Clinton, seems authoritative, but uninspiring. He sounds too much like the laundry list of issues that Democrats traditionally run on and lose. Biden was strong today, as he’s been through much of the debates: smart, thoughtful, and emotionally available. Dodd continues to seem very presidential and thoughtful. He’s just not hitting anything out of the park that would put him in the top tier. Kucinich enunciates clearly many of the positions of the left and many things that are true that other candidates don’t want to say. He just comes off as goofy, and he’s too far left for much of the country, whether or not he’s right. Gravel, well, he’s a hoot. He, too, sometimes tells it like it is. Sometimes he tells something, but who knows what it is.

  48. OK. finished reading the HuffPo live blog. Per usual they’re pro No-Bomb-A, anti-Hillary. At some point can they just state the obvious, they hate Hillary??? Plus, the annoying references to lyrics just show how unprofessional they are. I actually thought it was a good debate. And if they make reference to everyone sounding like they have colds or Hillary wearing taupe (it was camel, you nitwits), maybe they night get a new TV. I had no problem seeing Hillary looked like the golden girl up there. And no one, I repeat- no one sounded like they had a cold. And if I hear or read the word “shrill” in reference to Hillary, I’ll burst a blood vessel.

  49. OkieAtty,

    Did you read the excerpts I copied from HuffPo. I think they were generous to Hillary based on the low standard we set for them, lol.

    They actually admit Hillary continues to look strong.

  50. Well I am pretty twitched with ABC’s coverage. The clips they show make it look like BO got the better of the others on several points. I do not like the idea of just putting clips up there and not streaming the entire video. I cannot believe he got applause again when he brought up the initial Iraq vote for the zillionth time. And the line about Cheney and Rumsfeld having “experience” bothers me a lot. Did anybody answer that or did it just let that go…? I can’t handle all these names and the name-calling. Hillary’s been called Karl Marx, Bush-Chaney lite, now it’s just “Chaney” and “rumsfeld.” I know that Hillary rise above these remarks but I hope that they don’t stick in voters minds and that voters see them for what they are: sour grapes on the part of an inept, incompetent, very junior wannabe president. –mollyj.

  51. I missed the debate, but the only way anything really changes is if Hillary makes a huge faux pas, and she won’t.

  52. mollyj, I wouldn’t worry about the experience thing. Dem primary voters aren’t going to equate Hillary with Cheney and Rumsfeld, lol.

  53. Paula:

    I agree that that Hillary is different vs. Cheney/Rummy…..they had a NEO-conservative agenda before they were even elected….they had tried to get Bill clinton to rage war in 1997…

    So the question should be the right level of experience and know-how with someone who can envision changes and make the changes.

    Obama tried to show his “reaganism here”…his “last 20 yrs” comment was just that.

    While this was the most low key performance for Hillry, ending on the “women’s movement, civil rights movement and her mother” was just right!

  54. OkieAtty,

    Biden was the only one to vote for the
    bankruptcy bill. The others didn’t.

    The health care and sub-prime mortgage
    mess will require the bankruptcy bill
    to be revisited. I hope so.

  55. I didn’t watch the debate, but my impression is that low-key & steady is what is “just right” for Iowa. I suspect the ensemble was also chosen for the same reasons.

  56. Admin,

    I have to respectfully disagree with your specific statement that BO’s bumper car joke was the most memorable line. I watched the entire debate live, and I had forgotten that joke until you brought it up again here. Yes, he got laughs and applause but there were other moments when the other candidates received vigorous approval by the audience too.

    My thoughts on the debate.
    1) Hillary won again. There was no single defining moment in this debate and Hillary was always strong, always alert, never off balance.
    2) I loved the way that BO’s answer on Iraq, when he brought up the fact (again!) that he spoke out against the war authorization, was immediately upstaged by Kuchinich’s answer. Kuchinich got the most applause from that round of answers.
    3) Did anyone else notice that BO tried to defend his statements on Pakistan by saying that people have a right to know what a President is going to do, implying that he was being straightforward and strong, but when the question was what is the plan for getting us out of Iraq, he would only speak in general terms?
    4) I thought Biden established, once and for all, his bona fides as the most knowledgeable on foreign policy. He added to that a very human side when he talked sincerely and sadly about his wife’s and daughter’s deaths. I am not a fan of Biden but he might be very good V.P. material.

  57. SactoDem, that bumper car joke bit was just admin quoting from a blog of the debate.

    mollj, I’m with you on the constant Obamarama in the MSM. They keep propping him up because they want to make a horserace out of this.

  58. Terrondt,

    No problem!! I appreciate you trying to help me. I still am not sure I have figured it out though, alas. When I add someone to “hotlist” is that recommending them? Is that what you guys are talking about? Because there is nothing, absolutely nothing, on the page that I can find that says “Recommend”.

    I also appreciate your patience with me on this 🙂

  59. Hi All.. some funny stuff upthread. Thanks for the chuckles!

    Looking forward to watching the debate tonight on c-span @ 6:30.

    Thanks for the live bloging transcript..I’ve read it several times and tried integrating the abc videos into what I’ve read. Having a bit of a hard time with it…So, I will look forward to watching the debate without interruption.

    I did make note of this while reading the blog transcript:

    There was a moment of a candid response from Obama that I think needs more exploration. His quote falls in with something I felt from Obama but could never quite put my finger on.

    It’s this:

    “Obama: From High School to college. I was an angry young man.”

    I’ve had the distinct feeling Obama is extremely unhappy (angry, now that he said it) being black. He hides his disdain quite well, I might add. He doesn’t feel like a black person seeing he was raised by a white mother.. It isn’t a secret he doesn’t gravitate towards blacks and has difficulty identifying with black people and their struggle for Civil Rights. I believe Obama feels white and why he will always gravitate towards whites. It seems to me there is an internalized dichotomy of suppressed anger. An eternal struggle of thinking white but seen as black..a severe case of painful identity denial.

    Some time ago, I began to notice this on Obama’s videos. When Obama is arriving for an on stage appearance and a crowd has gathered around his drop off spot. Upon exiting his vehicle, he subconsciously will reach out to shake a white person’s hand (within a mixed blk and wht crowd.) rather than seek out a black person standing in the crowd who he mostly ignores.

    The Hillary campaign has access to psychoanalysts who can put a finer point on the actual “anger” expressed in Obama’s own words. I do think I am close though, to the core of his anger, which could border on a type of unhealthy self-loathing. That fact explored could explain the delusional writings and audacious embellishments in his first book.

  60. OkieAtty:

    Only Biden voted for the bankruptcy bill. The
    other candidates didn’t. One estimate is
    that 80% of bankruptcies are health care
    cost related.

    The 5 year ARM’s are just in the first round
    of balloon payments. We have 5 more years
    to go. The bubble may very well burst this
    fall. It may be worse than the saving/loan
    fiasco of the ’80. BTW, how come McCain
    has escaped being tagged with the Keat 5?

  61. Kegs, that estimate is based on health care costs being part of the dischargeable debts list; however, (and I do not do bankruptcy law BTW) consumer credit is a huge part of the debt list. Why? Because any Tom, Dick or Harry can get a CC. The CC companies raise limits after 6 months if the $30 payment is made, and they offer low introductory rates that go up to as much as 35% after the first 6-12 months. Miss one payment and all of your CC’s rates go up. That’s what they lobbied for and got. They also lobbied for and got BK “reform” which puts everyone in Ch13 land instead of Ch7 which is liquidation. Putting that all together results in lots of folks with re-fi’s and ARM’s and CC debt that never goes away.

    I have noticed many of my clients having huge mortgages, and very little liquid assets. For those who have health insurance, rates have gone up and coverage has gone down. And for those with retirement accounts, many are invested in money markets that over the last year have lost value and will continue to lose value. Not a good combination. If Repubs want to be the party of family values, the best way to do that is provide real and meaningful debt relief since fully 70% of the divorces I see are caused by debt problems.

    As for Arianna and the Kos’ of the world, I saw in the 90’s that many left-wingers were turned off by Bill’s method of getting a consensus to accomplish legislation by moving towards the center. They thought he sold out. He didn’t, and many of them are now punishing Hillary for the perceived slight. How childish.

    For the first time in a long while, we see Americans of all shapes, sizes and backgrounds genuinely pissed off at one party. As deep-rooted as that disgust is, unless we have a Democratic candidate who understands approaching legislation from a well-rounded worldview, then we will accomplish no meaningful progress. Hillary is that candidate. She, like Biden and Dodd and Richardson are the real grown-ups. No-Bomb-A is not a grown up. And I do not believe he was ever an angry young man. I think he is an egotistical, ball of fluff. Nice voice, decent stage presence, but scratch the surface and he is an opportunist surrounded by angry opportunists. You think Axelrod went with him this time because he believed in him as a candidate? Hell, no. He did it because Edwards as electability issues dating back to his faux populist mantra, his association with a weak Kerry and a complete inability to come across as sincere (anyone note how much that man blinks?). I believe and have always believed that BO used that line because he needs something to connect him to black voters. I do not profess to know whether or not he sees himself as Black or white or what have you. I just know that he has a helluva a split with Hillary and he needs something extra. The angry young man thing is that “in.”

  62. Mrs. Smith…

    I agree that O-Bomb-A is quite an unconscious person. I believe he is psychologically immature.

    We saw a bit of this when O-Bomb-A’s inflation started to burst after the debate in which he made the error about meeting with foreign dictators. He responded with a week-long manic response, unable to back down or change the subject. It wasn’t losing the political point that was at stake. What was at stake was his viability, not just as a candidate either, but as a psychologically coherent human being.

    He reminds me in many ways of George W. Bush.

    And after the past week or so, Michelle O-Bomb-A seems like she could become the next Betty Ford.

  63. Terrondt,

    LOL @ polls being a drug. I know the feeling. I cant help but check the upper right corner of “REAL CLEAR POLITICS” once per day, or more, and either fret or rejoice when Hillary moves down or up one tenth of one percent.

    When this election is over, and HILLARY is President, we are all going to have to go through withdrawals, or just get busy working on her re-election!!!

  64. LADem, you bring up a valid point about his psychological maturity. This makes me wonder given his high opinion of himself, that immaturity and somewhat privileged associations if he, too, won’t have a bimbo explosion. Men with that much charisma tend to have an ex-GF or mistress or two out there. I wonder what the op-research says on that issue. Anyone know?

  65. Hi folks, We’ve got ourselves an interesting place this morning!

    Mrs. S. I thought that was an extremely interesting profile of nobomba. I saw a reference to this quote in the post debate scripts and also felt it quite revealing. I have previously noted that I’ve detected some patronizing of Senator CLinton in previous debates about her. In one of the earlier debates he was outlining his strategy re something (maybe Iraq) and he commented that “we aren’t going to have a conversation” with a lot of emphasis on conversation–where it was clear that he was implying that conversations (a la Hillary) aren’t very significant…the tone would suggest to me that he considered them (conversations) trivial. I think this is quite contradictory of his own statements concerning people needing to know what their leaders are thinking. I’ve been troubled by his statements in front of the national urban league where he answered a question “what would you do to improve race relations” by saying that the minute he’s elected, it will make a difference in this country. His age is a concern to me. He hasn’t a real clue about the historical context of social movements in this country–he’s out of touch with the African American experience, I think. Just my opinions, but I think you are on target, Mrs. Smith. –mollyj

  66. Well said, Okie and LA Dem, I agree on the opportunistic part…wholeheartedly, and the immaturity and lack of self-awareness. He is almost a xerox copy of a colleague I had once. I, too, see some “W” in him. The “followers” he has worked up into zealots scare me quite a bit. Because what is not “there” is any substance…any depth of knowledge or experience, much less any wisdom. The way many on this site were able to predict his moves following one of his foreign policy gaffes, only goes to underscore his lack of judgment and experience.
    –mollyj

  67. I am enjoying my experience as a newfound “visible” member of MYDD. However, reading some of their responses to my entries is disheartening.

    There are actually people on their site, that WONT vote for HILLARY because they dont believe she wants UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE? Hello? There would be no word for “UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE” without HILLARY CLINTON, who actually was the first to even coin the phrase.

    I think people have short memories. I hope HILLARY ratchets up the discussion on healthcare. I think if you ask older voters like myself (Those over 40), to do a word association, HILLARY = HEALTHCARE. She owns the issue.

  68. Check in over at TPMelectioncentral. There’s a decent write up on the debate. One of the comments proves my point about some voters being mad at Bill and taking it on Hillary. It sorta makes fun of BO’s bumper cars comment.

    Oh, and Bloomberg is still saying no to a presidential run.

  69. sandy, i check realclear politics several times a day. tpm cafe is pretty good. pollster.com is fair. their averages are allways slow coming. the realclear averages the most recent 5 to 6 polls. national or state.

  70. mydd has good allies like areyouready, georgep. and hrc. some others also. i comment, don’t really do diaries. i do have an account on daily kos but i can’t stand being there. the deck is so stacked against hillary. dcdemocrat i believe posts there.

  71. I don’t understand people who threaten not to support Hillary in the GE but are supporting Obama. Aside from Hillary being far more prepared to be president, they have similar voting records. These people have created their won cartoon version of Hillary that is not based on reality.

  72. i gotta find a bumper sticker saying “african americans for hillary” to show other blacks we all do not think alike. i have to allways fight off or defend myself for supporting hillary other than a “brotha” pleeeeezeee!! 2 and half years in the senate is laughable for the presidency. most don’t know how little experience he has. and i notice on the nutkooks they call hillary supporters uninformed or uneducated. lordy.

  73. i week ago i admited if how small a chance if obama does get the nomination i would vote for him but if he continues to underslap hillary or get his wife to do it, i for the first time just might vote GOP. damn that would be so hard. but im just growing a huge dislike bording on anger towards obama. and i do not want him as vp. hillary can win without his a#s.

  74. Terrondt, I feel basically the same way about DAILYKOS as Hillary does. And to take it one step further, I see it as the LEFT’s equivalent to the RIGHT’s AM radio shows.

    However, I dont know if I will ever be ready to post a journal there. Right now, there are many SOUR people over there who are angry that their chosen candidate is not winning. I may wait until after the PRIMARY to become “Visible” on DAILYKOS.

    Overall, MyDD is at least civil. There are a lot of Hillary supporters there. In fact, one disgruntled NADERITE said that MYDD should change its name to “HILLARY HUB JR”…..lol. I am sure that person will find an excuse not to vote for whichever Democrat wins the primary, so I am not worried.

  75. PS, TERRONDT…

    The GOOD news is this…There is NO CHANCE that you will have to vote GOP in the General Election. Not that HILLARY should get cocky, nor should we supporters, but lets face it, no matter from what angle one dissects this presidential primary race, she comes out on top.

    I have already accepted that HILLARY will win the PRIMARY. And I also have no doubts that she will win the GENERAL ELECTION to boot, unless of course, the GOP somehow manage to gerrymander California’s electoral votes. If they succeed, we might as well just all move to CANADA.

  76. mollyj ,

    I don’t see BO as patronizing Hillary, I see him as enamored with her. Strange, I know, to be putting this out there. But if you compare the way he’s treated by Mrs O (as if a child) and the always dignified and respectful manner in which Hillary addresses him. I see a hint of jealousy developing there. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that BO has defended HRC’s remarks to his wife and she’s has advised him to attack her and tear her to pieces, (if thats possible) which he knows would be a fatal error.

    Actually, I can see Mrs. O doing it…which reinforces the notion of the left handed swipe made by her just the other day in reference to comparing “running one’s own household to running the White House.” My opinion of her is very low… It’s hard for me to believe she is as educated as is, but then her issues would revolve around “race”.. Mr. O prefers white woman, as I read somewhere, he lived with a white woman for a time before he married Michelle. This phenom is not unusual behavior within the black women archetypes.

    Anyway, O-bomb-a has serious problems boiling within as well as steering his campaign and himself to victory. Sad to say, he’s overwhelmed by both physically and mentally..

    Oops, debate on c-span..

    Later-

    Mrs. S.

  77. Mrs.S, I don’t think BO is enamored with Hillary. I think he is the schmoozing sort of sycophant who used his calculated relationship with Hillary and Bill (more likely through an introduction from Terry McAuliffe) to further his own selfish agenda of advancing to POTUS. He moved too quickly. Thought he could leapfrog over Hillary. Maybe he did so because of his own overriding desire to get to the top or maybe because of those on the Left who hate the Clintons and the move to the center that occurred in the 90’s promising him the sun and moon. Tough titties. Or maybe it was believing all of that manufactured hype around the last nominating convention. You should never believe your own hype. Duh.

    As for the nutroots support BO enjoys, he should understand that the center is where any good leader goes to build a consensus so that things can be accomplished. Since his base it the extreme Left of teh party, the dregs of the Naderites, and those who think Paris Hilton’s jail term is actual news, I find it hard to take anything they say as being rational or well-considered. Honestly, I don’t think BO would have cared if he were a Democrat or a Republican and that he plays the averages. If he weren’t stuck in Chicago and had he been in Linclon, Nebraska, he may very well have been a Republican. His message is truly hollow any way you dissect it. The rhetoric of hope sounds nice, but when people are struggling to put food on the table and we are embroiled in Bush’s psychotic Crusade drama, rhetoric is a luxury we can ill afford- especially when espoused by someone who has less leadership qualities than me.

    One last point, he seems to have few close friends not related to his professional agenda. The Clintons have friends of all walks of life- not just bankers, and lawyers. That alone speaks volumes about Hillary’s depth as a human being and her capacity to implement true and worthwhile change for the entire nation, not a few wimpy folks sitting behind a laptop with a third rate education and erectile dysfunction.

  78. sandy1938,

    LOL. If you can’t stand myDD, there’s no place for you to go…

    Totally ignore those Obama and Edwards supporters’ irrational rantings. They are just a bunch of losers.

    On myDD, a couple of guys really scared me with their insanity. One man under the name of ‘Tarheel’ is so obsessed with Hillary, another psychopath ‘annfrank’ or something is a female loonie.

  79. OkieAtty, I think you’ve pretty much nailed it. It’s almost ironic to read people pretty far on the left boast about Obama’s supposed call for change. Ok, change to what? They just assume his changes would fit their agenda. Pretty silly. Having watched this campaign, Hillary just seems so much better than her competition, I honestly don’t understand the angst over her candidacy.

  80. Well folks, I just watched the debate on CSPAN. Didn’t think there were any real surprises. Hillary did a splendid job. SHe is so very well spoken. I thought she really soared talking the exit strategy for the IRaq war because it demonstrated the level of detailed knowledge that she has in matters military. She also got in important licks on the lobbyist issue and on the matter of nuclear weapons in Iran vs hypothetical talk among presidential primary candidates about Pakistan and nuclear weapons. She explains her position very well and quite succinctly. She has always been really good at this, goin’ back years; it’s incredible just how good she’s gotten. There were no real boo boos that I saw. People who scrutinize these things might identify somethin, you never can tell, but nobody ventured off message, except I thought Gravel was gonna truly lose it at one point. Obombarama toned down his rhetoric a bit, though still irritating (always will be LOL). Another obvious win for Hillary. –mollyj

  81. Alright! Finally just finished watching the debate in it’s entirety on C-SPAN. Hillary did fine, although she was struggling to answer the question of is there sometime where you did not speak the truth. She seemed unsure of what to say, and jumped on the point Edwards was making regarding Irak vote. He said he made a mistake, you could see HRC struggling to avoid using the word mistake, but she got through! hehe
    A nicer moment came at the end when she was paying tribute to the civil movements, and personally to her mother. This was a sweet moment, it sounds as if her voice is starting to crack at the end when paying tribute to her mother.

  82. KOSTNER,

    OMG, I have been on the blog for about 48 hours now…and TARHEEL has already piped in with his negative comments!!! What a lowlife!

  83. Yes, OkieAtty… I see. You’ve made a valid point and I can see that mo working for O-bomb-a. I’m sure over time his smoozing techniques are as smooth a silk perfected and refined in the interests of presenting himself as humble and genuine for public consumption.

    I would take issue with your assertion of his holding hands with the Left, though. The Left are bold Kucinich supporters and the supporters standing to the Right of Kucinich are possibly part of O-Bomb-a’s base and additionally college students hoping they have the privilege of witnessing “their” version of the 21st century’s JFK..and of course, the die-hard Clinton haters who find O-Bomb-a a so-called “fresh air” alternative to both parties.

    I agree, the rhetoric of HOPE needs a replacement. Hope should be replaced asap with the word Resolve! Resolve has a much stronger definitive appeal by it’s own definition.

    In regards to the last paragraph of your response. I hope you took a walk around the block after posting that one…or in the event that wasn’t possible, pouring yourself, a Dewars on the rocks…. 🙂

    Mrs. Ssssss.

  84. Just watched the debate…Hillary did well and added great detail to her Iraq plans. I think everyone appreciated the scope of her knowledge of the War and getting the troops home. She instilled confidence in the audience of what needs to be done to end it.

    Teachers, Farmers and the War are the strong points for Iowa.

    Nationwide farmers are being lampooned by ADM…This company has to be taken to task. I’ve read many horror stories posted by farmers being sued by ADM for growing their crops which have been adulterated by the cross pollination of ADM’s patented seed. This is a huge nugget creating a sore spot in family farmers throughout the country who are giving up their heirloom seed, many who have brought this seed generations ago from their homelands as part of their heritage and treasure to be inherited and passed down to future generations.

    ADM is suing them millions for patent infringement. The entire scenario can be seen on the rentable DVD..”The Future of Food”.. Farmers desperately need a champion to help them fight big business to stay alive and have the law on their side rather than the other way around if they are expected to survive. That was the million dollar question…and everyone sorta passed over it. Iowa is about farm families. Their daughters become teachers to earn a living wage off the farm. That is what Iowa is about. Fight for them and you’ve got support like you’ve never seen before because they are honest people trying to earn an honest living. They have been waiting for a very long time for the right person to champion them in their plight. The courts have ignored them, Bush has ignored them, Rumsfeld is on the Board of Directors of one of the big corporations giving them grief…They are the unseen and little heard from majority that will unite the country for the candidate that backs them…

  85. Mrs. S, no, I did not go for a walk or pour a drink. I cleaned house. 🙂

    Sorry, but seeing the posts on other sites attacking her and talking to people here in OK who cannot formulate one good reason for their hatred of her is driving me nuts. I do think many are fringe left though. They are the ones who think she isn’t left enough. The DK supporters are the hippie Dems with more education than realism in their psychological arsenals. I have little problem with them, it’s the wannabe liberals who have the vestiges of racism and sexism lurking just beneath the surface that cause my outbursts regarding their stupidity and impotence. They don’t even know what drives their animus.

    I like Hillary and worked on bill’s campaign in college. I only wish I had more time to do something to help with hers here. I believe in her every bit if not more than Bill.

  86. OkieAtty,

    “Anyone else turned off by Arianna’s absolute hatred of all things Hillary?”

    Surprisingly, Arianna was quite complementary of Senator Clinton during her appearance on last week’s “LEFT, RIGHT & CENTER” radio show. She said that Hillary was clearly winning the debates and is getting stronger as it goes along. She mentioned she particularly liked her response about – If you want somebody that can take on the RightWing machine, I’m your girl.

    I don’t know who it is that is moderating the boards over at HuffPo.

  87. Hey you all
    Can anyone tell me if the debate is online yet? No videos yet on youtube. Well, just 2 clips.
    Anyone? Any idea?

  88. Seems like Rover and the White House have suddenly gone into panic mode because it’s finally sunk in that not only is it likely that there will be another President Clinton, but that she just may have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate to boot. There goes all of Chimpy’s (and Rover’s) so-called “legacy” being reversed.

    What to do, what to do….

    Have they actually kicked-off a de facto general election campaign by conceding Senator Clinton will be the nominee and launching into these various attacks against her ? All they’ve accomplished is to provide her with two nice big fat targets to smack around like pinatas.

    As Mr. Rogers would say, can you spell DESPERATE boys and girls ?

    :]

  89. mj: nevadadem protests his undying affection for Hillary and prints the same damnable comment twenty times a day, seven days a week, month after month that she is hated and unelectable. Daily Kos used to be something back in the day. It truly has become Daily Delusion.

  90. OkieAtty:

    “I believe in her every bit if not more than Bill.”

    I’m not into comparing them to each other…they are a team plain and simple. All we are seeing with Hillary in front is the other side of the coin. Bill’s stalwart presence is roundly felt as I’m sure he is chest up proud of all her performances thus far. The fact she is a woman competing head to head with a field of men is miraculous in itself. She has accomplished the impossible, she is seen and respected by them as their equal.

    It is fairly obvious, Obama is seen as an impostor, an outsider pretending to be more than what he portends with his promises of change. As it stands right now, the only real change that can be relied upon by Obama, is a change of underwear everyday IF his laundry is done on time; that is, if his wife is so inclined.

    Mrs. S.

  91. Mrs.S, I say I believe in Hillary more possibly because she has eight years of experience in the WH and now almost seven as a Senator. That gives her a bit more legislative edge IMHO. She will also as pointed out above a filibuster proof majority. Don’t get me wrong, we’re getting a two-fer and I am stoked about that, we’ll certainly need it to fix what the GOP has attempted to destroy. Things weren’t quite this bad when Big Dog took over. Not by a longshot. I think Hillary is uniquely situated to work on our foreign policy problems, Iraq and the economy while promoting social justice and restoring the dignity of our Constitution. I am counting on it. Oh, and don’t forget it was Hillary that had the close working relationship with Greenspan….

    JoeF, sorry but I read HuffPo everyday. Arianna more often than not has something negative to say about Hillary. She has been attacking her for the past year+. Just because she admits once that Hillary is by far the best in the debates doesn’t equate to support. Far from it. If she were caught slamming her in the face of the undeniable truth that Hillary rocks, it would limit her TV appearances and undermine her future promotion of BO as she would be recognized as a shill. Look at what’s happening with Robinson.

  92. JoeF, I have had my posts taking down
    because I have charged that the Huff
    Post is fronting a candidate. They are
    very sensitive to the charge. In stead
    of denying it, they just take the posts
    down.

  93. Terry, I just saw the rerun of meet the press.
    The round table had Brownstein and Matt
    Cooper who centrist. Harward if WSJ who
    moderately conservative and very conservative
    OBern who talks moderately but is very
    conservative.
    their kind ward of Hillary was about the
    campaign process and not of the issues.

  94. Thank you all so much for the incredible comments and I absolutely love this website. I am going back to school tomorrow at the University of Iowa to begin to spread the word about Hillary. You all know what I mean when I say that I want her to win soooo badly and that she deserves it so much more than any other American now, and I want to spread this mentality. Great show by Hill today.

  95. Kegs, I’ll check into whether David is involved. His son, Dan, is currently in the House and a member of the Blue Dog coalition. One of my good friends was a staff member for him. Dan is pretty well-liked in his district which is mostly rural. My understanding is he is quite involved in the Farming Bill stuff right now. If I can toot my own horn, I made a few suggestions during his original campaign that they used and that helped him against a fairly strong primary candidate. 🙂 David is a weird guy in the sense he is very conservative about jumping out for a candidate in the early stages. My guess is he is talking to some folks behind the scenes. Plus, he has had some recent health problems and with OU’s athletic department problems, he has only been in the public eye to answer NCAA charges. I think is likely that the current governor, Brad Henry, is staying out of it in an effort to maybe run against Jim Inhofe for the Senate. Oklahoma Dems have to straddle the line given how conservative voters are here. I’ll try to post some recent polls from here to let you know how Hillary is fairing in our state.

  96. Mrs. Smith, you struck a nerve. Once upon a time family farms were a going concern. The agri-dollar they generated would pass through seven (7) sets of hands before leaving the local community, and thus provided an economic base for small towns. When agribusinesses like ADM, Cargill, Con-Agra, and (IBP) moved in that same agri-dollar left the community immediately. The local economies dry up and blow away. The cattle and farming interests have tried to fight back with co-ops, litigation, country-of-origin labelling, but these companies (big contributors to Bush, and beneficiaries of the farm bill) use market power and litigation to crush small farms. It is an American tragedy and Iowa knows all about it first hand. But we digress.

  97. DCDemocrat:I think Kos has encouraged it to some degree. I don’t know if he is just screwing with them, or if he is just delusional, but when they voted against the funding he said “I bet Obama was against it from the start”. Huh? If so, why did he wait? Why didn’t he make an impassioned speech about voting against funding? Clearly, this isn’t the case. I have to think Kos is smart enough to know that.

  98. “JoeF, sorry but I read HuffPo everyday. Arianna more often than not has something negative to say about Hillary. She has been attacking her for the past year+. Just because she admits once that Hillary is by far the best in the debates doesn’t equate to support. Far from it.”

    I could not agree more.

    That’s why I posted that it was SO surprising what she had said. Even the moderator of the radio show made a comment something like – are my headphones defective, or are you actually praising Mrs. Clinton ? – as Arianna had been slamming her week after week.

    Another regular on the show, Robert Scheer, who had previously said some negative things about Senator Clinton, now routinely defends her against the RightWingers.

    She’s wearing ’em down !

    But to pick up on something somebody posted upthread, people respect somebody who stands their ground and won’t back down (well, break out the Tom Petty tunes), even if they don’t agree with them on everything.

    As Hillary recently said, as they did in ’92, if you attack us we’re going to hit you right back, and then some. It’s like Sean Connery, playing Jimmy Malone in ‘The Untouchables’ said:

    “He pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue! That’s the Chicago way…”

    It’s “THE AUDACITY OF … A FIGHTER”.

    :]

  99. Since it’s late and I can’t make calls to my pollster friends, I did some preliminary checking online. Nothing at demookie.com, but Sooner, ARG and USAelections had a last poll in April showing Hillary just under 30% in a statistical tie with JE. Guiliani was polling about 5 points better than each of them. Any polls from NewOK or the Oklahoman should be discounted as they are owned by the Gaylords who are Bushies (and big OU donors for David Boren).

    OK is always considered a lost cause with the DLC, etc.. We are a solidly red state. We’re also home to the largest munitions dump in the US and it supplies nearly all of the munitions for the war. I think we also have something like a dozen military installations and a huge complex about Texas so our voters try to be more bad ass than most.

    During Bill’s 1992 campaign, we got very little financial support from the national campaign. For several months, I had the only campaign copy of “The Man From Hope.” I don’t expect that to change anytime soon. Right now most of our yellowdogs are too busy beating up Dan Boren, Jim Inhofe and Tom Coburn. Then there’s the little thing where the GOP house speaker for the state just got caught getting a little oral pleasure from someone decidedly not his wife and most likely his secretary according to the rumors. Like I said, OK is not a great bastion of progressive politics.

    If only someone would give us the resources, we’d kick some butt.

  100. Daily Kos is full of nutty Hillary opponents, but it is by FAR the prog-blog with the largest readership (go to http://www.alexa.com and compare site traffic stats between dailykos.com and mydd.com, for example), so I post diaries there every so often, to try and counter-balance the relentless pro-Edwards and pro-Obama diaries.

  101. Ron Ginzburger @ Politics 1 (posted 8/20/07): “The Democrats White House hopefuls debated yet again on Sunday morning, this time an Iowa forum sponsored by ABC News. It was a relatively low key affair that from the beginning to end treated the race as largely a Clinton vs. Obama contest–short changing the others in the process. Obama even before the debate started announced he would not participate in any more debates . Not surprisingly, Obama was the subject of mild attacks on the experience issue–likely fearing they would not have another direct encounter with him for several months. CLINTON, AS ALWAYS, WAS STRONG IN THE DEBATE”. (Emphasis added). Dollars to donuts better than Yepsen.

  102. Correction: not participate in any more debates “until December”. Freudian slip on my part. Priceless . . .

  103. The Republican want the Democrats to nominate Obamam. That is why Rove attacked Hillary last week , it is why Republican pollster Luntz sets up a phony debate focus group to say Obama won, and it is why then Republican KO’s Worst Person In The World Award winner Kathleen Parker opened her vile mouth on– of all places– Hardball with Chris Matthews Their strategic goal is to divide the Democratic Party, and run against a novice like Obama in the GE. The counterveilling theory that they fear Obambi is a figment of Axlerods imagination. The Ginsburger comment posted above provides a reality check. Unlike these characters he is an objective witness.

  104. wbboei:

    Wholeheartedly agree with you on the futility of the family farmers crushed by Big Agri-Business. If Hillary picked up on this, investigating the claw hold Agri-business has on family farmers, Iowa would be a lock for her.

    Another thing regarding the debate. I’m sick of hearing Obama espouse the ‘judgement’ card. He pulled it on Hillary after she outlined her proposal for getting out of Iraq. Obama saying, where was the judgement of Cheney, Bush and Rumsfeld going to war and those voting for the authorization to do so? I smell Karl Rove all over this…Obama’s response was calculated specifically to her and the timing of his response, being called on directly after hers, reeks of underhaded manipulation.

    Alls I know is, with Rove on board, we’ve got to up our game and set a few traps of our own for the man from tan. I don’t want to overlook the fact the Rove machine will be looking to steal the Primary handing it to Obama. We’ve got one bite at the apple. We leave no stone unturned.

    ps. admin…If you want to delete this post after reading, by all means do so. I don’t want to give those snakes any inkling we are on to them. I’d rather be underestimated than thought of as overly confident without a care in the world. I want to Win at any cost…

    Mrs. S.

  105. good morning hillfans. i just got home from work. i hope the new week’s news cycle spins well for hillary’s post date reviews.

  106. what is up with these unscientific and very flawed focus group these guys keep sludging up? it is like these guys were leaning obama anyway but lie that they are really undecided.

  107. Berkeley Vox: The reason that daily kos has the traffic it has that it was four years ago a place where a small group of really thoughtful progressives used to post. As its fame spread, the quality of its content declined. Now it filled with blithering idiots. It is most distressing to see it, and I think it means that daily kos eventually will fade away. But for the moment, it is a force of nature and something to reckon with.

  108. Good morning all:

    I just saw Carl Bernstein on “Morning Joe”
    a few minutes ago. He was actually very
    complimentary of Hillary. His comment
    related that Hillary got bad press and high
    unfavorables due to defending Bill’s
    behavior. He is very impressed with her
    work in the Senate. Particularly, her
    crossing the aisle and working with the GOP
    to get things done. Further, he mentions
    the respect the military brass have for her.
    It is well earned.

    BTW, Arianna Huffington will be on shortly.
    I can’t wait to throw a shoe at the tv.

  109. I have a political guru of sorts. He watched
    the debate yesterday. He feels, Hillary’s
    placement on the stage right did not help
    her. On wide shots Hillary disappeared.
    His thoughts not mine.

    In general I view the first 15 minutes of a
    debate then just listen the remainder of the
    time. This goes back to the ’60 debate were
    JFK won the televised debate but on radio
    it favored Nixon.

  110. mj: Markos claims to be nonpartisan in the race for the nomination. Rasmussen last January had one of its anomalous polls that showed Hillary and Obama neck and neck, and Markos rushed to say, “I knew she was going to fade but I never expected it to happen this fast.” Of course, she was back to a lead outside the margin of error in the next poll. Markos seems to prefer Edwards, though he never comes out and says so, but he used to state from time-to-time that he believed Obama would be the nominee. (He doesn’t do that anymore.) The reason I believe Markos prefers Edwards, aside from his light touch with Edwards, is that the Edwards people of 2008 are essentially the people who supported Dean in 2004. Markos was a Dean adviser, and President Dean doubtless is very grateful.

  111. DCDemocrat, I don’t know, he was quite distraught about Edwards a couple of months ago. I thought he was an Obama guy. But let’s face it, he’s just anti-Hillary. He used to constantly compare her to Joe Leiberman(“Joe Lieberman had a lead at this point, too”), which is laughable.

  112. From Chuck Todd on MSNBC:

    Former GA Senator Sam Nunn will announce
    for president on a Unity ’08 ticket. This
    Unity ’08 group is sponsored by actor
    Sam Waterson. I guess that is the name.
    They are looking for a bi-partisan ticket.

    Chris Matthews have been talking up this
    group with 3 or 4 “harball” interviews.

  113. mj: That “Joe Lieberman had a lead at this time” nonsense is a very common theme at daily kos. I like to point out, “So did Al Gore in 1999.”

  114. markos is becoming an irrelevant DC pundit. It’s interesting for a guy who’s extremely obsessed with polls, he hasn’t posted any primary numbers for a looooooog loooooog time. He is Hugo Chavez on steriods…

    Ras. pulls Hillary back to 20 points lead. 42:22.

    AP is becoming an anti-Hillary sewer. If Hillary becomes president, I hope AP will get a big spank in their fat ass. They just published another demeaning, stupid hit piece on hillary… To quote a random guy who claims she/he will never vote a woman for president? What’s the point? It’s just mind-bogglingly stupid and lazy journalism.

    DES MOINES, Iowa — A pair of Sen. Hillary Clinton’s worst nightmares trudged past a giant blue “Hillary for President” sign outside the Iowa State Fair here with palpable disgust.
    “Hillary can go to hell,” said Alice Aszman, 66, a Democrat from Ottumwa. “I’ll never vote for her. I don’t think a woman should be president. I think a man should. They’ve got more authority.”

    Her husband, Daniel, 50, also a Democrat, agreed: “I think women should stay home instead of being boss.”

    That’s not what Clinton wants to hear from voters like the Aszmans, who described themselves as “working-class.” But there’s also no question that, even as Clinton, the New York Democrat, widens her lead in national polls of Democratic voters, becoming the first woman president won’t be easy.

    Appealing to female voters as a sister-in-arms won’t be enough to win the White House, and a potentially worrisome gender gap has emerged in polls between levels of male and female support for Clinton.

    A July poll of likely Democratic caucus-goers by the University of Iowa found that Clinton had 30 percent support among women and 18 percent among men. By comparison, there was no difference in gender support for Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, who got 21 percent from both men and women.

    The same poll found that 32 percent of women strongly agreed that Clinton was electable, while only 14 percent of men did. And 30 percent of women strongly agreed that Clinton was the Democrats’ strongest candidate, while only 17 percent of men did.

    Clinton brings special baggage to the campaign, demonized as she was through the 1990s by conservative talk-show hosts haranguing the white male voters whom Clinton must woo now. That’s one reason why Clinton has the highest “disapproval ratings” among Democrats, ranging into the mid-40s in national polls.

    She addresses the unique nature of her candidacy at every campaign stop: “I’m proud to be running to be the first woman president, but I’m not running because I’m a woman,” Clinton tells voters. “I’m running because I think I’m the best qualified and experienced to hit the ground running and get the job done.”

    At several recent campaign events in Iowa, many male and female voters said they didn’t care about Clinton’s gender.

    “This country’s in bad shape. I think it’s going to take someone with Hillary’s ability to get things done,” said Roger Davids of Council Bluffs, a retired Army noncommissioned officer whose years of service showed on his weary face, wiry frame, and the aged tattoos festooning his arms. “I think she’s a doer. It’s not all talk.”

    Davids called the United States “long overdue” for a woman. “Look at Margaret Thatcher. She did a good job.”

    Nevertheless, several voters conceded there is a subtext of gender bias apparent.

    (EDITORS: BEGIN OPTIONAL TRIM)

    Some of it comes from women: “Women are their own worst enemy,” said Sheryl McConkey, 53, an inventory manager from Council Bluffs who supports Clinton. One female friend told McConkey, “How can she manage the country when she couldn’t manage her own husband?”

    But polls show women are Clinton’s “natural constituency … much more likely to support Hillary Clinton than men are,” said David Redlawsk, a political scientist at the University of Iowa. “Some of it is just who Hillary Clinton is and people’s responses to her. Some of it is … some men still won’t vote for a woman, no matter what they tell a pollster.”

    Charles McConkey, 52, of Council Bluffs, is a maintenance mechanic at a pipe foundry. He’s undecided, but considering Clinton: “There’s no doubt in my mind” she’s capable of being president.

    But he added, “I know a lot of people who won’t” vote for Clinton because she’s a woman. “It’s just stupid. They won’t come out and say it. But a lot of guys are just stupid.”

    Dick Applegate, 63, a retired steelworker from Waukee, agreed: “I think we’re ready” for a woman president. “But there’s a lot of ’em against it. A lot of ’em don’t think it’s time. It’s an element.”

  115. i watch morning joe. i remember when joe s. was a rightwinger in the house. is it me or he is acting like a left of center guy? he is very nice towards hillary. does anybody else notice this>

  116. DCDem, that’s a good one. I like to point out that when Hillary was added to those polls she had a huge lead then as well, much as she does today.

    Now they are all gloating about Obama’s performance yesterday. I guess I don’t see it. He got some nice potshots in about Hillary, but did nothing to bolster his candidacy, IMO. And, his talk of unity and that Bush isn’t only to blame because there were problems with the fed gov in Dem admins is frickin ridiculous.

  117. DC, Sam Nun won’t be taking votes
    from anyone other than Ga voters. He is yesterdays news. He turned down Gore
    in ’00. He has never been team
    player.

  118. Terry, Joe is definety conservative. However
    he looks for competance whether left,
    right or center. I think he see competance
    in her. At the very least, competance
    in the way she is running the campaign.

    In the background of all of this is the
    snickering going on about BO’s lack of
    debate experience. How can this little
    women knock down all of these guys.

    Has anyone see the McCain defense of
    Hillary from Rove? I would like to see the
    quotes.

    Hillary’s VFW speech is at 10:15 central time.
    This speech to me is more important than
    Iowa debate. It is rare that candidates
    speak before they receive party endorsement.
    Unforntunately, other speakers include
    McCain, BO and Dred Thompson.

  119. Unless you are nothing but a trust attorney or do transactional work in a broker’s office or division orders in an oil and gas compnay, as an attorney you have debate skills. No-Bomb-A has a law degree. He was editor of the law review. He was a “community organizer” (WE that means), and he has a reputation as a great orator. Crisskaes. He spoke at the nominating convention to 60M folks.

    They’re grasping at straws to explain his poor performance and his backing out of additional debates. Bwak. Bwak. Bwak. Bwak. Bwak. No-Bomb-A.

    The man is just not as competent as Hillary. He’s not even sure of what he’s saying up there because he doesn’t believe in anything other than becoming POTUS. Hillary’s been to something like 87 countries, has been on probably hundreds of commitees and was an actual “community organizer.” What has he done besides buy a new tie and get a haircut?

    Can we repost the “Great Pretender,” please? Pretty please?

  120. Hillary have been pretty strong in Rasmussen’s tracking of the past three days. Always take a HUGE grain of salt with his tracking polls though.

    Aug 18 42:21
    Aug 19 43:23
    Aug 20 42:22

  121. Mornin’ y’all. This is a great community. I come here everyday just to get ready for another day of followin’ the campaign and talkin’ to people about Hillary and any other thing I find to do to support Hillary. I love the videos, too. Hillary is back in Arkansas yesterday where she’s got lots of great support. Thanks, everyone, for supporting Hillary. –mollyj.

  122. Interesting comments on Obama’s psychology. The man looks angry to me, as soon as he gets criticized he almost looks like he’s going to come undone. He is so boring on the debates, and just plain arrogrant. The more I see this guy the more I don’t like him. And as for Markos, now there’s a sniveling little jerk. He’s totally anti-Hillary of course, and Kos certainly mirrors that. What does this guy stand for except to get the job? What is this change he’s talking about? Hillary will bring about the most change, and she’ll actually know how to do it. I love the idea that she acts as though she IS President, while the others are trying to be President. BIG Difference!

  123. ever notice in the debates and in the pic above when he gets annoyed he tips his head up? i noticed this in the debates.

  124. Hey you are right terrondt…his whole body language changes…I am no expert on body language but I think that it is sort of a defensive and defiant posture.

    It never ceases to amaze me what a brillant campaign Hillary and her organization are running. I just got an email from Ann Lewis, Hillary’s Senior Advisor, about Women’s Equality Day, August 26th. They are going to send out ecards that we can send onto young women, especially those who might be voting for the first time. I love the way that this campaign gives us so many ways to be “in action.” These folks are brillant. Hillary set the foundation for this celebration of Women’s Equality Day by her brilliant and touching statement at the end of the debate yesterday. –mollyj.

  125. can anybody explain to me why the released abcnews/wash post iowa poll that is 2 weeks old but being re-released as being new? what is that all about?

  126. Terrondt, The sticking the neck thing out is body language for one having their neck in a noose or in a guillotine. It’s stretching it uncomfortably to show “Uh, oh. Ya got me.” It can also be for getting hot under the collar, but I think it’s him showing he’s been wounded and is taking it personally. Sorry, folks, but ‘ya can’t take those hits personally as POTUS (hence what Hillary was saying about Rove).

    Mollyj, you are so right. For any of ya’ll that have myspace pages, I’d suggest adding her as your friend and adding her banners or even ripping off the html for your other pages for your diaries or blogs that allow that stuff. There are all different types up there. Here’s the link: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=64552165

  127. Terrondt, Is this the poll where BO is 27%, and Hill and JE are at 26%. Basically, then, it’s a tie…I have no idea why they are still running an old poll….Maybe to keep the tension going about the race in Iowa. –mollyj

  128. yes molly. then at the debate they repeated the same 2 week old poll. misleading to say the least. they need to correct that crap.

  129. okie, i added hillary on my space months ago so im fine. she added me too. LOL. i hope she personally did but i doubt it. staff maybe. but honored anyway.

  130. guys, if you want to add me on to your myspace friends list if u have one mine is myspace.com/terrondt

  131. What are more current poll numbers in Iowa? I see several sources that show Hillary leading, but methodologies are different depending on which poll one uses. –mollyj

  132. molly, it seems the polling from iowa is painfully infrequent and slow reporting. the des moise regristar poll is pretty good but they have not polled there in months. there are allways national polls, but i wished they polled the 1st cuacus and primary states more often.

  133. kostner, I actually don’t mind that AP story, because it pointed out that a lot of her negatives are due to her being demonized in the ’90s. Also, spotlighting people who won’t vote for a woman, especially that couple (who almost made me barf) make them look like the idiots they are. In other words, someone may actually sympathize with HRC, lol.

    BTW, there’s a dumb post on talkingpointsmemo.com from a guy who says Rove’s comments show he wants HRC to win the primary. Here’s what I wrote:

    Why, because the GOP fears Obama more than Hillary? Sorry, don’t buy it.

    Suddenly deciding to take what Rove says at face value when he’s known for being a master bullshitter is ridiculous in my eyes. If they really wanted Hillary to win, they’d just shut up because she’s already comfortably ahead anyway. I guess that means Obama wants her to win, too, because he’s been using the same “she’s too polarizing” argument as Rove, lol.

    If Obama and Rove are arguing basically the same thing, then you can bet the house the GOP is afraid of Hillary in the general election.

    Why, because the GOP fears Obama more than Hillary? Sorry, don’t buy it.

    Suddenly deciding to take what Rove says at face value when he’s known for being a master bullshitter is ridiculous in my eyes. If they really wanted Hillary to win, they’d just shut up because she’s already comfortably ahead anyway. I guess that means Obama wants her to win, too, because he’s been using the same “she’s too polarizing” argument as Rove, lol.

    If Obama and Rove are arguing basically the same thing, then you can bet the house the GOP is afraid of Hillary in the general election.

    Why, because the GOP fears Obama more than Hillary? Sorry, don’t buy it.

    Suddenly deciding to take what Rove says at face value when he’s known for being a master bullshitter is ridiculous in my eyes. If they really wanted Hillary to win, they’d just shut up because she’s already comfortably ahead anyway. I guess that means Obama wants her to win, too, because he’s been using the same “she’s too polarizing” argument as Rove, lol.

    If Obama and Rove are arguing basically the same thing, then you can bet the house the GOP is afraid of Hillary in the general election.

  134. good comeback, I also agree, if they really wanted Hillary to win, just SHUT UP ABOUT IT. ergo they don’t want her to win.

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