AFL-CIO Debate

Update:  Added Bolding to Hillary’s answer on Obama’s blunder answer on Pakistan.  “Think Big” but watch your mouth, was one tough answer.

—————— 

Chris Matthews show reviews: Pat Buchanan says Hillary won the debate. Willie Brown says Hillary did what she had to do. They think Obama did well because he had a hometown advantage. Edwards is getting trashed by all. Edwards called small by Matthews. Buchanan loved the “I’m Your Girl” line by Hillary.

Good reviews by all regarding Hillary.

Obama’s home town advantage fizzled.

——————
It’s Over

—————————— 

Q to Richardson, Job description for your VP

Richardson: not Cheney

Q to Clinton on lobbyists

Clinton: we need reform in Washington, get rid of contracting out of government jobs.  I fought the drug companies and special interests. 

Q to Obama: You got lobbyist money and bundlers

Obama: no federal lobbyist money.  The reason I am in politics is for people

Q to Edwards: how is lawyer money different from lobbyist money?

Edwards: Lawyers don’t bribe juries. Lobbyists bribe congress.

Q to Biden, Would you appoint a Ripublican to your cabinet?

Biden: Maybe.  We need more than 50% to make change. 

Q to Dodd: Was Homeland Security Dept a good idea?

Dodd: No.  It’s too large.  We are not safer.  Iraq is not safer. 

Q to Kucinich: what have you accomplished in congress this session?

Kucinich: I’ve written bills.  The Dem Congress has not kept its promise to bring the troops home.

Q to Obama: Would you honor Barry Bonds at White House?

Obama: He still needs to hit one more.  Barry Bond is a remarkable baseball player. 

KO: Is that a No or a Yes?

no answer

KO to Clinton on Katrina recovery

Clinton: Put someone in charge responsible to the president who knows what they are doing.

KO to Biden: Would you stop No Bid contracts

Biden: yes

KO to All:  In 455 days the election will be over and the next race will start immediately thereafter.  Does this trouble you? 

Richardson: yes

Obama: Campaigns last too long.  Washington insiders.  Bush is a disaster.  Mobilize Americans to bring change.  Change from bottom up.

Biden: Would not bother me because I will do a good job.  The bad job by Bush is what is causing this.  Next president will not have a margin of error.

Clinton: I will be so busy I will not worry.  I will do healthcare, energy independence, education.  There is so much work to do I will not worry.  Bring your brooms to Washington.

Dodd: This campaign began early because people care and are frustrated.  The frustration is from the bottom up.  I agree with Hillary and Joe on this.

Edwards: It is too long.  Publically finance our campaigns.  Let’s stand up to drug companies. 

Kucinich: I will come from behind and no one will run against me. 

———————————– 

Union Q: We need healthcare.

Kucinich: I have a plan for universal health care. 

KO gives Edwards a response opportunity.

Edwards: I have been walking the picket lines. 

KO: but you are from a right to work state.

Edwards: yes. 

Biden:  can’t make it out

Union Q what policies to make business invest in energy efficient technology.

Dodd: Americans should have good health care plan.  80% reduction of CO2.  Better gas mileage.  Tax polluters. 

Union Q to Clinton, what changes to No Child Left Behind

Clinton: I supported funding for green economy.  No Child Left Behind was an unfunded mandate.  We need growth models for students.  Tests are not enough. 

BREAK

————————— 

Union Q: Why is my active reserve daughter forced to buy her own equipment? 

Dodd: I’ve written legislation to protect our troops but Ripublicans have stopped it.

Union Q to Edwards: I lost a third of my pension and health care.  I can’t afford to pay for my wife’s health care.  What can you do?

Edwards:  Bless you.  Pensions of CEOs should be like workers pensions.  I will explain the importance of labor.  Who’s been with you?  I’ve been there for you. 

Union Q to Clinton:  On pensions

Hillary: These are snapshots of what is wrong.  We need to protect pensions.  Protect Social Security.  Bush won’t enforce the laws.  I will care about labor.  I will sign the employee free choice act.  We will rebuild the manufacturing sector.  I will take this comittment to the White House.

Union Q to Obama on undocumented workers.

Obama: We can be a nation of laws and immigrants.  Comprehensive immigration reform.  Employers must be held accountable.  Must have an earned pathway to citizenship.  Go to the back of the line.  I was a community organizer. 

Union Q to Biden on Healthcare. 

Biden: I spent a lot of time in a hospital.  We need 100,000 new nurses.  Insure every child.  For 24 years I walked picket lines with you. 

————————- 

Union member question (Sago mine survivor), Bush has failed workers by rolling back work place protection.  What will you do?

Biden: My heart goes out to you.   What you heard about Pakistan earlier is wrong.

Union Q, we want to start a union at Resurrection Hospital.  How will you help those of us who want to form a union? 

Kucinich: I am a union member.  Will be a union president. 

Union Q, after serving in armed forces I lost my job when I came back.  What about manufacturing jobs. 

Richardson: protect pensions, job protection.  As Iraqi war veteran I will also fully fund medical treatment for veterans. 

——————————— 

Q to Richardson on Iraq if Al Qaeda takes over.  Richardson: let’s get out then focus on what needs to be done. 

Same Q to Obama:  A phased redeployment.  Troops in the region.  Focus on Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Biden: I have a detailed plan to get out.  Create 3 regions.  Let’s talk truth.

Clinton: Redeploy responsibly.  Put pressure on Iraqi government.  Diplomacy.  We need to keep focused on Al Qaeda.

Dodd: Let’s thank our troops. They have not failed, our policy has.  Diplomacy. 

Edwards: Get 50,000 troops out.  Then diplomacy. Genocide must be prepared for.

Kucinich: Get out now. 

KO to Obama: Why did it take so long to find out how you would vote on the supplemental?  Obama: We need to be orderly.  Hoped Ripublicans to join us but not enough have joined us.  Only way to stop Iraq war is to get Ripublican help. 

Same to Clinton:  This is Bush’s war.  But these are our sons and daughters fighting.  I do not want to undercut them.  But the only way to get the message across to George Bush is to vote how I did.  We need to force George Bush to end the war.

Q to Dodd:  You called Obama confusing and confused on Pakistan, Why?  Dodd: We have to be careful.  It is irresponsible to suggest we will invade Pakistan.  Obama was wrong.  We need to be careful with our language. 

Obama responds:  I find it amusing to be criticized – to Dodd: you did not read my speech.  If we have actionable intelligence we need to act. 

Clinton responds: I do not believe we should engage in hypotheticals.  It is a mistake to destablize Pakistan.  Pakistan has nuclear weapons.  Think big but don’t say everything you think.  Crowd Boos.

Dodd:  I said I made a mistake on Iraq vote, you made a mistake on Pakistan and you should say so too. 

Obama: I did not say that.  I said something else. 

BREAK

—————-

BREAK:  Hillary lovely in Pink and Black.   

————-

Edwards: 2 million toys imported to U.S. from China. 

Kucinich:  We dug a hole to China.

——————— 

Q to Clinton: Response?  I’m not here to get in fights with Democrats.  I want a united Democratic Party.  If you want a winner that knows how to take the right wing on – I’m your Girl!

Q to Obama: Don’t Americans like cheaper goods?  Obama: Americans want jobs not cheap T-shirts.  Who does the president negotiate for?  People or corporations?  Congress listening to special interests is a problem. 

Q to Richardson: Is China an ally or adversary?  Richardson:  We have to get tougher with China.  On trade and Darfur. 

Same Q to Obama.  Obama: enforce trade agreements.  Chinese are our bankers.  A competitor. 

Biden: They hold a mortgage on us.  We are in debt by a trillion dollars to China.

Clinton: Amen to Biden.  We had a surplus, George Bush is paying with a credit card.  Tougher standards on what China exports to U.S.

Dodd: A competitor getting close to adversary. 

—————–

Q to Obama:  You voted to subsidize this stadium, were you right?  Obama: yes.

Q to Richardson: Sell the toll roads? Privatize? Richardson: No.  Let’s finance infrastructure by getting rid of earmarks and corporate subsidies.  Invest in our power grid and highways and bridges and rails, strong land use policy.

Q on Trade to Clinton: How would you fix NAFTA?  Clinton: NAFTA hurt workers.  We need a broad reform, NAFTA is a piece of it.  Important to enforce our agreements.  A trade prosecutor.  I voted against CAFTA and fast-track authority for this president.  We need a source of new jobs by investing in energy. 

Same Q to all: Richardson: No to more NAFTAs, no to union busting attorneys at OSHA;  Obama: Amend NAFTA.  Corporate lobbyists not working people involved, Stop corporate lobbyists;  Biden: President must create jobs not export jobs; Dodd: requires modification; we need to stop outsourcing too; for 26 years I’ve stood with labor; Edwards: It needs to be fixed, Washington insiders did this; Kucinich: I will withdraw from NAFTA and WTO.

———————— 

Question to Biden – Did you guys drop the ball on infrastructure?  Biden: I proposed solutions years ago.  We don’t need any more studies.  We need to put America back to work.  Can’t wait to debate Rudy.  Ripublicans have been irresponsible.

Q to Edwards: How to convince Americans that changes to infrastructure must be made?  Edwards: Americans know the changes are needed.  Who will bring the change?  We need to lead the change.  Stop lobbyist money like I said this past Saturday. 

Q to Kucinich: Should government subsidize sports?  Kucinich: We should buy the team.  I have written infrastructure legislation.

————————- 

Question to Dodd on infrastructure.  Dodd:  Stop spending money on Iraq.  We need new priorities.  Cut back on defense spending. 

To Clinton, Is our government doing anything to keep us safe (on infrastructure).  Hillary: Our prayers to the Utah miners.  We need a better infrastructure which will also help with homeland security; including broadband.

To Obama, What are we not prepared for? Obama: welcome to chicago.  We are not safer now than after 9/11.  We should not have gone to Iraq.  Neglect of Afghanistan.  Let’s fight on the right battlefield.  This will give us the resources for infrastructure.

—————— 

Keith Olbermann introduces the candidates.  Obama gets a hometown cheer.  Hillary gets a good response too.  AFL-CIO President John Sweeney speaks about the importance of labor unions. “one of the people here tonight will be the next president”. 

KO: I’ll ask questions.  Follow-ups at my discretion.  There will be a lightning round.  Please hold applause audience. 

——————– 

It’s steaming hot in Chicago. 

John Edwards is drowning and needs labor support to give him some air. 

For Obama it’s a home town crowd again. Antoin “Tony” Rezko is probably in the stands counting on his investment. 

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81 thoughts on “AFL-CIO Debate

  1. Where is everyone? I loved the Dodd-HRC vs. Obama exchange!

    BTW, I’m sick of the whole Wash. insiders crap. Edwards and Obama keep parroting each other.

  2. This is getting to be an insane slugfest. The heat is getting to them. The desperation is measurable.

  3. I missed most of this debate, I trust Hillary is doing fine.
    It looks like Hillary, Biden, and Dodd look and sound
    like grown ups. Am I rigth, wrong?

  4. I watched all of it, and enjoyed the fighting, too. HRC can take a punch and deliver one with the best of them!

  5. Who will be explaining Obama’s remarks tomorrow?

    Obama’s remarks tonight are yet another do-over for this issue.

    Wait until the tapes of his previous remarks are contrasted with his remarks tonight.

  6. How does BO say: “Madam President and Laddie?”
    He needs to start practicing. Willie Brown, Eugene
    Robinson and Pat Buchanon with Chris Matthew
    imply she won. Wow!!!

  7. Who is the other pundit? He’s a perpetual liar on behalf of Obama. I saw him on CNN the other day, when the other pundits pointed out the huge lead of Clinton, he said Obama was leading in IA, NH,SC which is complete false.

    Tonight, he did the same, declared the disastrous Obama’s slugfest as a ‘win’.
    Can we write to this despicable human being?

  8. Kegs, Willie Brown and Robinson implied No-Bomb-A won. Axelrod was just on and his repeating the meme that Pakistan is the problem and that Iraq diesn’t matter is way too simplistic. If we leave Iraq hanging there will be a turf war between Iran, Turkey and Syria. It’s dumb for Edwards to say prepare for genocide. We know that, but the pull-out has to be responsible. Leaving a giant gaping hole in the Middle East which is sheer madness.

    Axelrod is still trying to clean up No-Bomb-A’s gaff on lobbist money. Oh, puhleez.

  9. Earl Robinson is the Obama shill kostner. Pat Buchanan shot him down and Mayor Willie Brown finished him off.

  10. Are you referrering to Eugene Robinson? Washington Post
    reporter. By the end of his comment, he conceded a
    Hillary win.

  11. I think Tweetie is falling in love with Hillary. And Pat B. has a crush.

    Can we just hook Axelrod up to a lie detector? OMG. All he does it try to spin No-Bomb-A’s bad answers into something decent. He should be counseling his candidate to let the campaign come to him bc there is a certain zen to campaigning. He’s trying too hard and fumbling on the field.

  12. I think Brown was trying to stay out of it while giving the hometown win to No-Bomb-A.

    I like Edwards’ PR guy. He’s well-spoken. Wolfson is a bit tight but completely on message.

  13. Kegs, you’re right. The heat is getting to us now. It’s Eugene Robinson.

    Okie Atty: Axelrod and Bonier are spinning so fast to try and turn their loss into a victory that with the proper wiring they could generate electricity to power the stadium.

    Obama lost the home town crowd. Cue up a reading of the baseball poem “Casey at the Bat”

  14. No, Axelrod. No-Bomb-A is doing okay in IA and SC because he has spent more money on advertising and is double-timing it to keep up with the Hillary jagernaut.

    Yay! Ko is coming on now.

  15. Robinson is a blasted fool…and Buchanan really does like Hillary..he always says something positive about her on McClaughlin Group…I certainly don’t agree with Buchanan on many things, but he can be funny as hell…he’ll just start chuckling …and he will actually say something that he thinks is true even if it doesn’t put rethugs in the best light…he’s consistently said that Hillary is doing the best…and recently said Obama pretty much is toast. So i have to give the guy a point.

  16. Good one admin RE: generate enough power to run the stadium.

    Biggest loss- Edwards. DK played to the unions well on the NAFTA and WTO issues. and it was nice to see Dodd in our corner.

  17. Kit, you’re right on about Pat B.’s always saying something positive about Hillary. I just hope his xenophobic leanings don’t get associated with her. I think he became enanmoured of her when he realized she wasn’t the devil his party leaders painted her to be when she got into the Senate and worked in a bi-partisan manner to get things done.

  18. Hillary held her own, y’all. Edwards and Obama are starting to sound like broken records. People are gonna get tiredof this fast. I thought Hillary’s handling of it good. She is careful careful not to patronize him in front of a large crowd. She says what is true for her and doesn’t use her time trying to point out to an already biased home town crowd that obama is full of hot air, and himself. Can we have the next debate at the Old State House in Little Rock? LOL. When the dust settles, we know what we’ll be sweeping out, when it comes to Obama and poor John Edwards who is soundin crazier by the minute. Despair in the air, you are so right.
    Hillary always scores big points on keeping her cool. She took a deep breath the first time before she answered on the lobbyinst question. I think she was havin a little moment…But she did the right thing. Above all, a commander in chief needs to be tough but in command. final thought, do you think that BO actually knows what a “bundler” is? –molly j.

  19. Looking thru the log above, Hillary’s answer on the campaign for term number 2 starting as soon as you’re sworn in was awesome. She may have tapped into a mainstay of voter frustration on that one. I hope she parlays it into something more.

  20. MollyJ- of course No-Bomb-A knows what a bundler is. It’s his best friend.

    They just replayed Hillary’s answer on being tougher on China. The food and toys quip was great and she showed just enough anger and fire to know she means it.

  21. You’re right, Kostner. It is awesome.

    The mortgage banking issue Hillary spoke about today is a great one. People are terrified all over about the varibale interest rate mortages. It’s killing my clients and the housing market here is dying no matter what the real estate agents would rather say. The issue is a great one to go after the middle-aged, middle class demographic. It seems she is diving and killing now on the GOP’s main demographic for the last 10 years.

  22. lol, forget advertising form hillary. let the free clips hillary get from tv to get her message out. let obama spend it all.

  23. Oh and while we’re at it. I would caution John, who’s got to be feeling not so good for a variety of reasons, not to join forces with BO. I keep seeing and hearing BO and thinking again and again about a boss I once had who was really low on substance and high on be-littling. He got personal real fast once the race got tight and seems incapable of taking the high road. I think he is the type to turn on people who help him because of his own insecurities. Needs more work. And a geography lesson. If these guys had been around during the 60’s they would realize that the measure of somebody who is running for PResident is not somebody who ignores lobbyist money and runs around picketing. I mean, it’s the war, stupid. Stopping it in some way that doesn’t get everybody and their grandmother killed. Big issues have to be approached in grown up ways. Whenever they talk about lobbyists they sound naive and disingenuous. –mj
    Hillary had some really good answers. Thank goodness she answered some of the people from the ALF-CIO who the other candidates were ignoring.

  24. Huffington Post has a story posted tonight being
    critical of BO and Edwards on federal lobbyist
    donations. I am shocked.

  25. Absolutely right, ADMIN, et al., on Hillary’s answer to the question where she talked about a President (or Presidential candidate) doesn’t always need to be sayin what they’re thinkin. That was a powerful answer. And his attempt at recovery…something about I want you with me…or we have to talk as a people, but hardly appropriate when you’re in the sit room. mj

  26. mollyj:

    wait until the transcript for the debate is up. What Obama said at the debate is not what he has said the last 2 weeks. this was yet another new answer from Obama.

    Hillary’s Think Big answer was really tough.

  27. Yes indeed…she had a good good night under tough conditions. He’s just graspin at straws. He would be “god’s gift” to the Republicans at this point. What I see is that Dodd and Biden and to some degree Richardson ( he had a very strong answer early on I think it was on taking contributions, lobbying etc) showed how they are basically on the same page as Hillary. And she re-emphasized that she is for a united Democratic party. And it is wise to take this position because it highlights the out in left fieldness of OB and John E. DK shows up as being the radical alternative and frankly he has a good sense of humor so it just helps to defuse the situation. That sort of leaves BO and JE hanging. with their egos showin. I see this as the difference between seasoned experience and leadership and zilch on the part of BO and JE.

  28. Chuck Todd: Hillary was above the debate because
    Dodd and Biden took her side on issue against
    BO and Edwards.

  29. I’ve been at some other blogs gauging responses. The BO folks remind me of Naderites. They hate competency, they hate the Clintons and they’d cut off their own noses to spite their faces. No-Bomb-A lied about the unilateral attacks on Pakistan’s tribal areas. He’s dead meat in the NYT, WaPo and other newspapers tomorrow and forever.

  30. MSNBC had David Shuster give a “Truth Squad” report on the Dodd vs. Obama exchange on Pakistan. Obama explicitly stated that what Dodd was saying was not true. Shuster then played the video tape and proclaimed Dodd the truth teller in the exchange.

    Tonight was yet another verions of Obama’s policy on Pakistan.

    As soon as we get the contrasting video we will put them up for all to see, again.

  31. my lord how many different versions of pakistan do we have to hear….What part of think big keep your mouth shut do you think he understood?

  32. I missed the whole damn thing. Did someone say theres a replay on at midnight?

    Would it be on msnbc?

    I appreciate the rundown of the debaters but need to see it in all it’s splendor..

    Just saw a thread at the DU designating “Obama is God” from an effen fruitcake…
    pardon me, whilst I puke!

    Thanks gang,

    Mrs. S.

  33. Our Hill got it right…..”you can think big but not loud as a President”. Can you imagine BO telling the world our overall military and security strategy IN DETAIL just to impress the people and the press?

    And he wants to talk with some dictators….talking big while thinking big….that is scary!

  34. mp,

    I really find this Obama and his supporters’ IQ is sort of low, I am SERIOUS. One of his notorious support claimed on dailykos that’s a wonderful rebuttal to Hillary since American people should know what’s on president’s mind.

    Gosh. Hillary was talking about not telegraphing military secret to enemies.

    Media people keep on talking how smart he is. To be honest, I believe his IQ is really low. Not sure how he got into Harvard? Affirmative action?

  35. I just re-watched some of the clips. BO did change his story on Pakistan, again. It’s sorta back to the old condition-precondition but it gets more complicated and confusing. JE and BO look like the kids who “just won’t play ball.” The MSNBC reviews (discussed above) with Matthews, Buchannon, Robinson, etc. are all very positive for Hillary. Somebody said, basically, Obama played to the stadium, Hillary did what she needed to do to (in essence…be a commander in chief, presidential). I do regret that BO and JE are playing attack dog politics especially since they keep beating the dead horse about lobbying. Maybe the bundler question and trial lawyer reference will give them pause. The next time that question gets asked it might not be so polite. Hillary has got such a good sense about what to say and when and how to say it. She is just superb. mj

  36. I just saw the clips after the debate on MSNBC. Mathews also had Terry M. on – I hope I don’t get tomatoes thrown at me but I like the guy…I am Irish maybe I can appreciate a good Irish Pol! But I think he’s good and Mathews had fun trying to get him off his game. Didn’t happen, and Terry just smiled all the way through it. Most of the pundits seemed to favor Hill, but some said they thought she might have dug a hole on her answer to Obama on Pakistan. She got some boos, they said, because the audience was for open diplomacy. I think that’s bull, i think it’s just because it was Obama’s home turf. The MSM is still throwing him some bones, but Edwards was said to do nothing to raise his status. Oh God – Law and Order just came on and guess who’s on it??????????

  37. I think she was booed because it was Obama’s home turf. I like the statement that HRC was acting presidential while Obama was playing to the crowd.

  38. kostner, I actually think Obama is quite intelligent. He’s just not ready for prime time, and it shows.

  39. Hi Kit..I think the pundits are wrong about the boos. She is not going to tell people what they “want” to hear just to get votes. And this is a strength. Obama was trying to play for the crowd. And she was being presidential…and giving the “right” answer. His fans have not yet got it that this isn’t American Idol or a debate for class president. I look at him and think he needs good mentoring and more real life experiences to ever even think about being ready for the President. The republicans would have a field day with him, making commercials. Flipping, flopping and flipping again, not to mention having military strategy vs. diplomacy discussions in a debate format on live television. mj

  40. Thanks, Kegs…will play catch up!

    Paula, I haven’t given up on DU..We tweak the blind nitwits daily with the Truth. My usual attire consists of a crucifix, \garlic and a pocket mirror. When they really become obnoxious, I hit either the alert or the ignore button for true anonymity/sanity.

    Thanks all. Tuning in at 12 bells..

    Mrs. S

  41. Let us put it this way – after watching Obama all year long – and knowing how incompetent he is – I will not vote for him if he won the nomination! It is not just me – I know loads of democrats and democrat leaning independents who feel the same way. They have grown so much to like Hillary and what she stands for – they just cannot vote for O-Bomb-A!!
    Thankfully we won’t have to make that painful decision as it is Hillary who will win!

  42. Kostner,
    Thanks for agreeing.
    Yes, “Do we want a change or more of the same” That fits to Obama. Do we want more of the same – deploying troops from Iraq to Pakistan or do we want a change – get someone who knows what is in the interest of our Nation!!

  43. Hillary was terrific on all answers. Then I listened to the spin room.
    Robinson is an Obama shill and that is why good ol Matthews turned to him first with his question who won. Pat Buchannan gave it to Hillary, and Matthews did not want to hear that. In the same
    sequence Willie Brown said she won as well. When we got to the spin room, Matthews pressed both Axelrod and Bonior whether they could point to any instance where lobbyist money influenced Senator Clinton’s vote and neither one of them could. Axelrod lapsed into his normal stream of consciousness, blathered something about the Iraq war and claimed he does not have a poll crazed candidacy. Bonior tried to change the subject, when he was pressed which made me wish he had entered the priesthood. Meanwhile Howard looked great, Terry was terrific and Keith Oberman did a fine job. The big take away from the evening is that the country is in real trouble and Hillary is ready from day 1 of her presidency to lead us in the right
    direction. On a related note, C-span televised a recent speech by Newt Gingrich this morning, he said the problems facing the country today are greater than those we faced in the depression and world war 2. He likened our current difficulties to what Lincoln faced in 1859, and then in the next breath he praised Hillary’s abilities to deal with them, and then made the obligatory comments about the Ripublican candidates. Out of the mouths of babes and Newts . . .

  44. Admin, you are right Obama has contradicted himself yet again on the Pakistan question. He is in a hole and everytime someone in his camp tries to hand him a ladder, he opts for a shovel. He would rather be wrong than President.

  45. PAULA:

    The lament of Edwards-Obama that Hillary is a “Washington Insider” seems to be a last ditch effort to gain sympathy from the primary voters, who seem to have ALREADY made up their minds that they are going to support HILLARY CLINTON.

    He lead in the polls has jumped substantially since last month. This time last month, Real Clear Politics, which does an AVERAGE of ALL the major polls, had her at a 12.4 percent lead. Today, the AVERAGE of all the polls is 20.4 percent.

    That is an AMAZING and REMARKABLE jump. The fact that this number is the AVERAGE, shows just how solid and substantial her support is.

    So what Can Edwards-Obama say about someone who is so far ahead of them in the polls? That she is an INSIDER, which means absolutely……nothing.

  46. From politicawire:

    Clinton Holds Back Rivals at AFL-CIO Forum
    “A hometown crowd cheered Sen. Barack Obama as he volleyed with his Democratic rivals over his judgment and experience during tonight’s AFL-CIO debate in Chicago. But it was Sen. Hillary Clinton who, in what might be a metaphor for the entire race, earned the loudest jeers and the most sustained applause,” Marc Ambinder reports.

    But NBC News’ Mark Murray notes Clinton’s “stiff arm” dominated the debate. “On nearly every question — whether it was on Iraq, No Child Left Behind, NAFTA, or why lobbyists earn more money than average Americans — Clinton responded by invoking Bush’s presidency or record.”

    “When you’re up double digits in the polls, and when you receive tough questions, it’s a great tactic to use. And to be fair, she isn’t the only Dem who does this on tough questions. But she does it more than most.”

    As a result, John Edwards and Obama landed few blows. Chuck Todd notes “the problem for the two chief Clinton challengers, though, is that they are fighting to be the same person, the anti-Hillary. And Clinton, now, has a lot of supporters on stage with her, including Dodd and Biden. It’s a fascinating dynamic that I think is developing in this primary.”

    It’s looking like Dodd and Biden are already positioning themselves for a spot in a Clinton Cabinet.

  47. Chuck Todd is absolutely right about Obama and Edwards “fighting to be the same person.” The problem is, with Hillary’s favorables in the mid-80s in her own party, being the anti-Hillary ain’t going to cut it. And the dynamic of Biden and Dodd backing up Hillary is interesting. I think they know they’re not going to win, and they’d rather see HRC as the nominee than Obama precisely because of her gravitas and experience.

    BTW, I urge you to check out Kevin Drum’s post on the debate on washingtonmonthly.com. I like his blog because he doesn’t have a favorite candidate and won’t take cheap shots, which is refreshing for a lefty blog.

  48. New Quinepac polls:

    Ohio

    Hillary 41
    Obama 17
    Edwards 11
    Gore 8

    Florida

    Hillary 43
    Obama 13
    Gore 11
    Edwards 8

    Pennsylvania

    Hillary 35
    Obama 19
    Gore 12
    Edwards 10

    Head-to-head matchups:

    FL

    Clinton 46
    Rudy 44

    Obama 41
    Rudy 45

    OH
    Clinton 43
    Rudy 43

    Obama 39
    Rudy 42

    PA
    Clinton 45
    Rudy 45

    Obama 39
    Rudy 45

    Internals are very very good for Hillary.

    Obama lost to Rudy in all THREE STATES. Devastating. I am going to write a diary on the weakness of Obama’s candidacy in general election.

    He is very weak across the swing states. There is an inherent demographic reason.

    In FL, Latinos are swing voting bloc, WSJ has an article on the difficulty of Obama attracting Latino votes.

    In OH, except major cities, there are lots of rural whites who are still have prejudice or bias against African American politicians.

    I believe Obama is not going to win general election.

  49. kostner, I was just about to post those poll numbers.

    BTW, I was reading a debate round-up on talkingpointsmemo.com, and the poster said Edwards launched a “really tough attack” on Hillary when he said he wouldn’t be pictured on the cover of Fortune magazine (Hillary was in June, which I didn’t even know till I read the post). Of course, he never mentioned her name.

    I couldn’t resist. I had to reply, “Since 99 percent of the people have no idea whom he was talking about, I doubt that qualifies as a ‘really tough attack.'”

    Edwards is clearly too afraid to criticize her directly, lol.

  50. If it is true that Obama and Edwards are fighting to be the same person, since they appear to be adopting many of the same poisitions, then the question is how much longer can this go on? At some point, Edwards will need to disguish himself from Obama, and that means confronting him. Up to this point, he has counted on support from organized labor, but he was upstaged last night by Kuccinich on that score. I suppose he can still turn to the Coalition to Win (Burger, Stern, Hoffa), but my sense is they will not make a commitment at this point either. Which brings us back to the question of how he will confront Obama. To date the most I have heard is the statement by Elizabeth Edwards that John is at a disadvantage because he is neither a black nor a woman, which fails to answer his problem.

  51. The poll results are very encouraging poll results. My prior comment on Newt was overbroad. He admires Hillary for her leadership ability, but his policy approach would obviously differ. Her approach offers the country real change, whereas others propose pie in the sky stuff, or more of the hair of the dog that bit us. Biden and Dodd’s reaction to Obama’s comments was not calculated but viceral. Experience has taught them that there are more things in foreign policy than are dreamt of in Obama’s philosophy, and that the real art of diplomacy is based on inference, flexibility and keeping your adversary guessing what you will do. Success in this venue requires a mature judment and an intuitive sense of how and when to use the levers of power. Hillary, Biden and Dodd understand this, whereas Obama apparently does not.

  52. Yesterday the NYT made much ado about No-Bomb-A and Hillary not speaking for months and tried to spin it as she froze him out. I got a different read from it- that Bill and Hillary helped launch him and that they were bringing his career along until he got in bed with Trippi and Axelrod and tried to go it alone. She may feel (and rightfully so) that No-Bomb-A used her and that he is jumping into her parade.

    I bring this up in this thread bc throughout each of the debates and especially in the last two weeks, No-Bomb-A, keeps throwing stones at her, trying to get some recognition from her or from others. Plainly, he is out of his league. She plays it cool though. She doesn’t let him get her mad, she doesn’t respond to his attacks. Instead, she brushes him off with mild annoyance and by doing so, makes him look even more weak and more small to potential voters.

    With respect to the assertion above that Edwards has to disassociate himself from No-Bomb-A in the near future, that’s compeletly correct. Edawrds overestimated his ability to draw from Hillary supporters by being more like No-Bomb-A. Jumping on that ship has made him look weak and like he is playing second fiddle to BO. Not a wise decision. Considering that JE was the last VP candidate, has a blue-collarAmerican dream background, is no longer in DC and has a great family (always a plus in these things), he has squandered fantastic name recognition. I would venture to say that he actually lost this race when he decided to jump out of the Senate. I know recent election history says a sitting Senator has not been elected since 1960, but this election cycle is anything but typical. Dissatisfaction and mistrust of the government is at or near an all time high- that plays into the longer campaign season to some extent as well which then reinforces JE’s impotence on the national stage.

  53. I finally watched the repeat of the debate and Hillary was so excellent. She’s so damn good. She can take any question or any venue and turn it to her advantage. I love the pile on by Biden and Dodd and Clinton on Obama. BO looked so pissed during most of the debate, i think the key with him is to just poke at him, he gets really pissed, and pretty much loses it. Edwards is a total weenie. I’ve never though Edwards was that bright, and I love Biden’s response on his long history on picket lines as compared to Edwards’ doing that in the last 2 years when he was running for Pres. To me, that’s Edwards in a nutshell. His whole platform of Anti- poverty and the angry populist pretty much evolved during his run for Pres. I am amazed how nutroots have bought it. To sum it up…Hillary is going to be the best President I have seen in my lifetime!!!!!

  54. BO makes another foreign policy mistake – in etiquette. He called Canada’s leader as President not Prime Minister….even small mistakes like that says a lot, especially since he is on the foreign relations committee in the senate. Canada is our friendly ally and neighbour. Biden corrected this without embarrasing BO. And it is about time BO spent time ATTENDING the foreign relations meetings and asking some tough questions….when others were asking an ambssador about Taliban, Afghanistan etc, BO was asking for fish and mercury etc…

    Seriously, this guy does not do his homework….as I have started feeling tht he is just a big talker.

    Like some on this site, if BO or Edwards are the nominee, I will not be supporting the democratic party. Even a moderate republican with some of their misplaced social/religious notions might be preferable to either of these two.

  55. MP,

    I’m with you. I’d even vote for Newt over BO. At least he admits when he is wrong. I would not, however vote for Mitt, Rudy, Thompson or any of the other GOPers. Their freakin’ nuts or completely shady.

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